Goat's milk

[Guest guest]

Theresa,

Yes, I'm on the Primal Diet -- at least with regard to raw -- and I'm afraid

even the non-cooked recipe which you were kind enough to include is more

involved than I want to deal with. But I do think you're right about the

apple being the most gas-producing of the fruits I've been trying, and I'd

like to ask two questions.

1) How do I prepare the fermented grape juice? Can it be done without

adding anything to the brew?

2) Can the apple juice be prepared the same way? Or even combined with the

grape ferment? If not, I will swish a long time before drinking. That, or

try eating fat with it.

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

> 1) How do I prepare the fermented grape juice? Can it be done without

> adding anything to the brew?

>

> 2) Can the apple juice be prepared the same way? Or even combined

with the

> grape ferment? If not, I will swish a long time before drinking.

That, or

> try eating fat with it.

,

1) I suggest juicing the grapes and throwing in a kefir grain (do you

have?) then waiting a couple days or so; strain, then store in a

Grolsch-type bottle. It would be nice to add some bitter herbs, but

better keep it simple to begin with. Understand that this is a

medicinal, and best taken by the spoon (well, *maybe* a shot, it's

real tasty) and not the glass. If you didn't culture it yourself, the

end result would be...uncertain.

2) The apple juice can be prepared the same way though I don't

promise it won't upset your system later; it's worth a try.

It would taste good with the grape, but would, in effect, dilute it,

so I wouldn't.

My fantasy experiment: try swishing the apple juice one day and

drinking alone, then eating fat with it another and observe what

happens. To me, consuming fresh apple juice with fat sounds like

tummy-trouble for someone with delicate digestion YMMV.

Something you might care to try if you desire fruit: soak some

raisins in water overnight and eat the next day.

Or soak raisins/dried apricots/figs/peaches, add some water and yogurt

and blend.

These are both better in winter, maybe. It's a shame not to eat the

fresh abundance out there now.

Also, a few dates blended with milk, vanilla and a little coconut

would be excellent. Please don't get too austere.

B.

/I checked out your website and you are lovely! I'll order your book

for my mom--who practices tai chi--but it'll be a couple days as I've

left my wallet in North Hollywood, oops.

[Guest guest]

>These are both better in winter, maybe. It's a shame not to eat the

>fresh abundance out there now.

>

>

,

Good point. It is fruit time for us in the northern hemisphere. We

don't talk about seasonal changes to diet very often here. It's an

important consideration, just like organic, properly raised foods in

general. A food that is local, in season and fresh is best, imo. Price

found the pastured butter being most nutrient dense in spring and

autumn, so there is a natural rhythm to optimal food choices. I don't

buy everything local and in season (otherwise I couldn't have coconuts

or avocados), but I do try.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

> 2) Can the apple juice be prepared the same way? Or even combined

with the

> grape ferment? If not, I will swish a long time before drinking.

That, or

> try eating fat with it.

,

Try adding some fresh ginger juice when you make the apple juice, if

you wish to use up them apples. To taste, of course. That ought to

help quite a bit. Add it to your green juice as well.

B.

[Guest guest]

,

<1) I suggest juicing the grapes and throwing in a kefir grain (do you

have?) then waiting a couple days or so; strain, then store in a

Grolsch-type bottle.

<sigh> No kefir here. When I was drinking milk, I used to clabber it

(spores from the air). And now that I think about it, years ago, when I

made rye bread, I used spores from the air to start from scratch. Wouldn't

that work with grape juice? If I remember right, the air thing is kind of

risky in terms of results, but its not too hard to judge, by taste, the

results in terms of success or safety. Whats a Grolsch-type bottle? I'm

afraid I never did learn that whole side of NT.

<My fantasy experiment: try swishing the apple juice one day and

drinking alone, then eating fat with it another and observe what

happens. To me, consuming fresh apple juice with fat sounds like

tummy-trouble for someone with delicate digestion YMMV.

Well I've now developed a third symptom that harkens back to the bad old

days, and so now I have another part of the puzzle I'm not sure how to

label -- as simple disgestive problems related to sugar, or another sign of

detox bringing back old symptoms. In any case, now my tongue is very red,

has ulcerated spots surrounded by white and the tip of my tongue is abraded

and sore. So, whatever the label on what is happening to me, I am

definitely ready to back off the fruit. I have already thrown away the

zucchini and will turn the apples over to my son. The zucchini because it

started this whole mess and the apples because they do seem the most acidic

and troubling. Also, I went back to my notes on the consultation I had with

AV and saw that he specifically advised me against those two fruits. He

might have also advised against grapes, but since I didn't ask (<g>) and I

have the feeling the grapes are the least implicated in all this, and they

were expensive and they taste great -- I'll keep experimenting with those.

(BTW, his advice to me on detoxifying fruit -- for mercury and aluminum --

was mostly berries of one sort or another, taken with coconut cream and cow

cream. But the organic berries are horrendously expensive here.)

If the grapes don't work, I'll just give up on fruit. I've lived for a

couple of years without any and was doing very well.

But just to let you know, I use ginger quite a bit. At last, something you

mentioned that I actually have in the house!

<I checked out your website

Thanks so much for your response. Before you order the book, though, do

check with your mom, and show her some of the pages that are pictured. If

she's already doing Tai Chi, it might be a very different school and then my

stuff might only confuse and frustrate her.

Thanks for all your help.

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

> <sigh> No kefir here. When I was drinking milk, I used to clabber it

> (spores from the air). And now that I think about it, years ago, when I

> made rye bread, I used spores from the air to start from scratch.

Wouldn't

> that work with grape juice? If I remember right, the air thing is

kind of

> risky in terms of results, but its not too hard to judge, by taste, the

> results in terms of success or safety. Whats a Grolsch-type bottle?

I'm

> afraid I never did learn that whole side of NT.

You can use whey to culture, but kefir is such a superior culturing

agent. If you leave it to air-culture, you'd likely waste the juice

and time/effort spent juicing. Just eat 'em!

Grolsch-type bottle is a reusable glass-bottle with a wired cap.

> Well I've now developed a third symptom ... and so now I have

another part of the puzzle I'm not sure how to

> label -- as simple disgestive problems related to sugar, or another

sign of

> detox bringing back old symptoms...my tongue is very red,

> has ulcerated spots surrounded by white and the tip of my tongue is

abraded

> and sore.

That's most peculiar. Actually...ulcerated? Glossitis? And you

haven't been drinking whiskey-on-the-rocks?

....The zucchini because it

> started this whole mess and the apples because they do seem the most

acidic

> and troubling.

Zucchini is a very benign fruit. The most trouble it's capable of is

maybe a little water-retention in someone with edema, I'd say, but you

know what you felt. And *raw* zucchini juice is not a good idea for

you, esp. if the ratio to the other juices got too high. (I really

thought I had you on the salmon, dang.)

Apples are not acidic; they can be troubling to a minority of people

because of other reasons.

Also, I went back to my notes on the consultation I had with

> AV and saw that he specifically advised me against those two fruits.

Hmm. AV told you not to eat zucchini? That's queer. You don't recall

why? What is the mix in your green juice AV recommended? I'm just

curious. I'm tiring of my own commentary, don't worry.

He

> might have also advised against grapes, but since I didn't ask (<g>)

and I

> have the feeling the grapes are the least implicated in all this,

and they

> were expensive and they taste great -- I'll keep experimenting with

those.

> (BTW, his advice to me on detoxifying fruit -- for mercury and

aluminum --

> was mostly berries of one sort or another, taken with coconut cream

and cow

> cream..

Yes, berries are advised for good reason--they're really good for you

and low in sugar. I was unaware of their aluminum/mercury detox

ability. If you asked him, I expect he'd say no grapes.

>

> But just to let you know, I use ginger quite a bit. At last,

something you

> mentioned that I actually have in the house!

Before you order the book, though, do

> check with your mom, and show her some of the pages that are

pictured. If

> she's already doing Tai Chi, it might be a very different school and

then my

> stuff might only confuse and frustrate her.

I'll send her the link. She's probably doing different moves but I

think she would just relate to you/find you inspiring.

B.

[Guest guest]

,

<And you

haven't been drinking whiskey-on-the-rocks?

Good Lord. That would absolutely kill me. <g>

<Hmm. AV told you not to eat zucchini? That's queer. You don't recall

why?

My age, mostly, and the fact that I had been undergoing some pretty extreme

detoxes with symptoms a lot weirder than the tongue I described (as you can

see, I'm just a tad sensitive <g>)and he felt the zuchinni would push me

over the top. I only started adding a little recently, and then, feeling

cocky, went for the whole zuch (this is always with the juicing) and then I

guess it really did push me over the top.

<What is the mix in your green juice AV recommended?

I was basically supposed to keep to a celery base of about 85% with about 5%

parsley, 5% cilantro (for the enormous amount of mercury I have in my brain)

and 5% carrot. I've been doing well on that, varying it slightly as I got

bored or simply feeling adventurous. Just got too adventurous, I guess, when

it came to the fruit.

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

-

>So, I'm only slowly getting to the point where I can accept the

>sugar-microbes-gas progression, but I'm still struggling with the idea that

>there is no connection between fruit and detoxification.

What would the connection be? Certain specific fruits might have certain

specific virtues, but in general, the salient digestive characteristic of

fruit is sugar. Also, what would the mechanism be by which detox produces

gas specifically?

>And also because I was seeing other signs of detoxing as

>soon as I began the fruit (the low-grade fever and unusual elimination that

>looked like old stuff being released). I " m not sure what to make of those

>factors now.

Those signs might just as well be of sugar-fueled overgrowth.

>Well, all food for thought. I do appreciate your hanging in with me to say

>again and in another way what I couldn't hear the first time. I'll keep

>mulling over all of it.

Like I mentioned in another thread, I'm quite argumentative. <g>

-

[Guest guest]

,

<Like I mentioned in another thread, I'm quite argumentative. <g>

With that as a given, you will understand, I hope (given my previously

expressed disinterest in argument), why I will now leave you in peace with

whatever your views may be. <g>

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

,

> Like I mentioned in another thread, I'm quite argumentative. <g>

>

Uh, now that's stating the obvious!

Ron

[Guest guest]

,

Just to let you know the end of my saga. When my son came over Mon. night,

I gave him all the fruit, grapes included. (I figured, why am I even

messing around with this " experiment " ? ) Last night I slept like a baby, no

gas at all, at this morning my tongue is very close to normal. I am so

relieved to be back on track again!

I do like fruit, but I *love* my current state of health.

We probably should have changed the subject line along the way. <g>

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

This morning I went up into the mountains where I found a lady who

raises goats.. She has good Raw Goat's milk that I was able to buy..

No hormones or Chemicals,, Not Organic but the milk is good.. She even

sells to the Childrens Hospital research center.

I will beable to buy all I need every week.. I'm very happy about

this..

I had never drank Goat's milk before, tried it this morning.. It is

very good.. Almost like Cow's milk with a creamer taste.. and My baby

girl loved it too.. Even My son.. We will all be drinking Raw from now

on..

The lady who sells the milk says that I should just use the Goat's

milk and only add a folic acid supplement to it and not add all the

other ingredients like the recipes call for.. She said it would be

better for her.. I plan on doing much more research on this to weight

it out..

Does anyone know a good sorce of folic acid supplement I could use?

Eibhlin

[Guest guest]

>

> I did not grow up an a farm. But goat's milk beats cow's milk

hooves down!

> Fresh, unpasturized etc, of course.

> Gayla

~~~~ Goat's milk saved my Reilly:

I found a kitten on the ditch bank one morning. He had stuffed

himself into an old twisted, shredded tire, trying to get away from

another cat who meant to do him harm. Walking by with 3 German

Shepherds discouraged the villain, thank heavens.

But when I came back (sans dogs), no mama kitty had come to claim

the bitty one, so I extracted him from the tire (that's a funny

story in itself! it took me a few minutes!) and brought him home.

So tiny was he, he was as yet unable to eliminate by himself and

required assistance.

And both my allopathic vet and my homeopathic vet recommended goat's

milk. The allopathic vet actually raises milk goats, and brought me

some milk! For free! Very nice man, that one.

So, goat's milk and strained meat (baby food), administered via

syringe. Now Reilly is an obnoxiously healthy, spoiled brat kitty

who sleeps with us every night and torments the other two cats.

Life is GOOD!!

Ev

[Guest guest]

Go Reilly!!

Gayla

Always Enough Ranch

Acampo, California

http://bouncinghoofs.com/alwaysenough.html

aeranch@...

[Guest guest]

I put my kids on Goats milk in the early 90's I got it powdered from

Ralph's.. I requested that they carry it... I was very broke at that time

with three very sick children.. So I wrote the company and they sent me

coupons and tee shirts.. very nice company.

www.hbot4u.com

Goat's milk

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> So goat's milk is acceptable on the protocol even though it has

> casein?

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[Guest guest]

Human milk (breastmilk) has casein as well. There is only a trace amount of

casein in goat's milk and it is of a different type (that normally affects our

kids) than cow casein. I could tell what the difference was when I tasted goat

cheese. It is a smoother taste that is easier in the stomach. It was like a

" WOW " thing

>

> So goat's milk is acceptable on the protocol even though it has casein?

>

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[Guest guest]

Here is a nice link that tells you many definitions of casein:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & rlz=1T4ADBF_enUS270US271 & defl=en & q=define:cas\

ein & ei=gOfJS9WfIo7M9gTh4aDaBA & sa=X & oi=glossary_definition & ct=title & ved=0CAYQkAE

>

> So goat's milk is acceptable on the protocol even though it has casein?

>

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[Guest guest]

Hi ,

My son tested OK for it on the Meridian 100 Foods screen at first, so we

used it (probably a lot more than we should have), and the next time we

tested him (same food screen) his reaction was far stronger and Dr. Goldberg

told us we needed to remove it.

So now he does potato milk (DariFree).

So if you can do goat milk, try to somehow use it in moderation so that your

child doesn¹t develop a new sensitivity. I know that¹s much easier said

than done, because a child is going to want the same milk daily on his

cereal, or whatever... it¹s hard to alternate milks.

Though I really do not care for goat¹s milk, it did make the BEST frozen

custard. The goat flavor was quite subdued when frozen.

Caroline G.

> So goat's milk is acceptable on the protocol even though it has casein?

>

>

[Guest guest]

We all eat cereal dry.    It grows on ya.

________________________________

From: Caroline Glover <sfglover@...>

Sent: Sat, April 17, 2010 12:04:35 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Goat's milk

 

Hi ,

My son tested OK for it on the Meridian 100 Foods screen at first, so we

used it (probably a lot more than we should have), and the next time we

tested him (same food screen) his reaction was far stronger and Dr. Goldberg

told us we needed to remove it.

So now he does potato milk (DariFree).

So if you can do goat milk, try to somehow use it in moderation so that your

child doesn¹t develop a new sensitivity. I know that¹s much easier said

than done, because a child is going to want the same milk daily on his

cereal, or whatever... it¹s hard to alternate milks.

Though I really do not care for goat¹s milk, it did make the BEST frozen

custard. The goat flavor was quite subdued when frozen.

Caroline G.

> So goat's milk is acceptable on the protocol even though it has casein?

>

>

[Guest guest]

The whole casein issue per DAN! versus cow's milk is a difference in paradigm,

concerning the root cause of autism.  The DAN! hypothesis that started casein

removal was thinking that tiny particles were crossing the blood-brain barrier

to cause the symptoms, ignoring the fact that very similar particles are created

by our own bodies anyway.   The hypothesis is based on the way it (cows

milk) stimulates the specific interleukins and cytokines of immune system, as

well as the high amounts of hormones (that they're now finding feeds XMRV too),

etc.  But cow's milk and whole grain wheat are some of the most allerginic

substances available in our diets, not to mention berries and nuts, etc. 

Things like tropical fruits have certain things that are known to 'feed' some

viruses.  I'm sad that I can't use coconut oil and coconut milks because I think

they're some of the most 'special' foods around, and I had found that coconut

oil gave me energy when I was tanking w/the CFS.  However, even though I would

initially feel good - like within half an hour of drinking it - over the longer

periods (week or two) I would start to feel a different kind of heavy fatigue

that wouldn't ease up until I stopped the coconut stuff.  It took that happening

several times to figure out that what initially made me feel a lot better ended

up making me feel a lot worse, even though it was a very healthy food.  I've

spent most of my life being a very whole foods pure foods person, so it was hard

to shift to things like processed foods, (and devastated to have to give up

nuts, let me tell you), but my very healthy diet gave me severe pain

w/fibromyalgia, and it

wasn't until I switched to a very basic, low nutrient (in comparison) diet that

I began to learn what a life without pain was like.  My ocd makes food such an

issue for me anyway, so it was hard to get to where I am because I used to fret

about everything related to food, to the point where I had stopped feeling safe

about eating anything.  But much of what I was taught was healthy (way before

autism and ) kept me very ill.  I'm still quite sick, but I am so much

better off now on this crappy diet (I'm having stomach problems - gastritis -

that I need to look into so my diet is far more restricted than ever) than I

ever was when I ate 'well'. 

BTW, Goat's milk may have hormones, but surely no where near as much as cow's

milk. Does anyone know? And the affect on the immune system is different too,

and much lower on the allergenic scale.  For some it takes a leap of faith in

to stop avoiding all casein and then avoid dairy, and some people luck out,

others find that goat's is still not tolerated.

HTH

[Guest guest]

I had an Aunt who used to eat her cereal with juice on it.

;0P

That makes dry cereal sound positively delicious in comparison.

;0)

Caroline G.

_____________________________________

We all eat cereal dry.    It grows on ya.