Advice needed

[Guest guest]

Bob,

Your advice to Peggy is excellent.

As to the methotrexate and folic acid, it would have been very rational

to suppress folic acid during the early methotrexate years as either

chemical can occupy the same receptor. Should the physician tell the

patient that he/she has no idea how this recommendation will change over the

next few years as experience and additional studies enter the picture, or as

lassitude, politics and economics muddy the water? Most patients though

would rather hear assertive dicta from their physician. Perhaps it is good

medicine to overstate positive expectations to the patient. No one can deny

the psychological component of regaining health.

Re: Advice needed

> Peggy

>

> I don't believe that anyone on here is going to be willing to

> give you medical advice with your husbands life at stake. However,

> you can educate yourself and make an educated decision on your own. I

> think Ralph Moss is a good source and you can call him directly and

> discuss your husbands problem with him. It would be worth whatever he

> might charge and it could be the difference between life and death.

> There is a gross misconception amongst physicians and

> pharmacists regarding vitamins , minerals and antioxidents. First of

> all, todays pharmacists contrary to what you may have been told

> receive exactly zero hours of education in nutrition. The average

> physician receives approximately 12 hours during 6 years of medical

> training and then only when it relates to specific diseases.

> You must remember the important axiom ''that the absence of

> disease does not equal health''. The USDA ''minimum daily

> requirements'' of vitamins and minerals are constantly being

> increased as more and more is being discovered in the connection

> between disease and nutrition. Particularly with respect to

> degenerative disease such as cancer and heart disease.

> To most doctors the world of supplements is like vodoo, they

> havn't a clue. There was a time back in the 1940's when the doctor

> for whom Dana Farber Cancer institute in Boston was named discovered

> a chemo drug that fooled the body's cells into thinking that the drug

> (I don't recall the name) was the essential vitamin Folic Acid. To

> this very day most doctors will tell patients being treated for

> cancer not to take Folic Acid or not to take any B vitamins. This is

> absolutely crazy because Folic Acid is an ''essential'' vitamin and

> you will die if you don't take it at some point. The whole idea was

> to suspend Folic Acid only while being treated with this specific

> drug and then of course you had to have it. Your body stores about a

> 4 month supply of Folic Acid and once that is depleted you are in

> serious trouble. Anyway , the point is, the doctors are like a bunch

> of old cronies spouting off old wives tales because they simply don't

> know the facts.

> Doctors worry that the vitamins, minerals and supplements you

> are taking may interfere with the action of the drugs that they are

> giving you. As for the Pharmacist, what you were told is absolutely

> insane. Virtually all drugs being given to cancer patients

> are ''experimental'' by their very nature. If they were not, then

> everyone would be cured and we know that not to be the case. I assure

> you that whatever drugs they have your husband on ''are part of some

> study''. There are no drugs that I know of that are part of a

> standard ''cure'' for colon cancer. There are many drugs being used

> to treat colon cancer and they will work to a degree up to and

> including perhaps 100 percent depending on the nature of the strain

> of cancer, the patients general age, health and strength of immune

> system.

> What you need to do is to find a support group specifically

> on or some other site that relates to colon cancer and has

> people who are familiar with vitamins, antioxidents and other

> supplements. I don't mean to disparage your sister but by the very

> nature of her occupation she is committed to and a ferverent believer

> in drug based treatment, whether it works or doesn't. That is the

> nature of the beast. I know a man who just recently passed away who

> graduated from the Massachusettes college of Pharmacy back in 1938.

> He knew every herb and herb mixture imaginable. The man's mind was as

> sharp as a tack. I asked him if any of those things worked and he

> told me that ''of course they did, you didn't think I studied all

> that stuff for nothing do you''. So, I asked him what happened and he

> matter of factly told me ''well, the drug companies took over and I

> was the last graduating class to have studied herbal medicines''.

> This man went on to be a pharmacist for 50 years and died at the age

> of 90. He lived in both worlds and knew them both. Unfortunately

> people like your sister and those being educated today know only one,

> and that is truely unfortunate.

> Pharmacists and physicians today are essentially taught only

> drug based medicine so they are simply not the people to be asking

> about vitamins, minerals and herbs other than to find out if they

> know for sure and specifically if any of the drugs they are giving

> you will be interfered with by any supplement you are taking. In fact

> that is all they care about.

> Find some support group on colon cancer and ask around and see

> what others are doing before you make any snap decisions. At least

> interview your doctor to find out if he actually knows anything about

> vitamins and supplements. Most will B.S. their way through a

> converstaion because they don't know anything and are only worried

> that it may interfere with the drugs. You need more information than

> that because you simply do not want your husbands name to be included

> as a statistic in an experimental protocol that failed. Your concern

> is not your husband's doctor's protocol, your concern is to save your

> husband's life by any means possible. Some doctors are very

> knowledgable and will work with you, others are just orthodox

> allopathic doctors who administer the required drugs for the protocol

> and accept whatever happens to their patients as all that can be done.

> If you want to push the envelope you have to get involved and

> learn all that your huspand's doctor knows and then learn a whole lot

> more from as many sources as you can get access to.

>

> Best of luck and God bless.

>

> bob

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bob,

Your advice to Peggy is excellent.

As to the methotrexate and folic acid, it would have been very rational

to suppress folic acid during the early methotrexate years as either

chemical can occupy the same receptor. Should the physician tell the

patient that he/she has no idea how this recommendation will change over the

next few years as experience and additional studies enter the picture, or as

lassitude, politics and economics muddy the water? Most patients though

would rather hear assertive dicta from their physician. Perhaps it is good

medicine to overstate positive expectations to the patient. No one can deny

the psychological component of regaining health.

Re: Advice needed

> Peggy

>

> I don't believe that anyone on here is going to be willing to

> give you medical advice with your husbands life at stake. However,

> you can educate yourself and make an educated decision on your own. I

> think Ralph Moss is a good source and you can call him directly and

> discuss your husbands problem with him. It would be worth whatever he

> might charge and it could be the difference between life and death.

> There is a gross misconception amongst physicians and

> pharmacists regarding vitamins , minerals and antioxidents. First of

> all, todays pharmacists contrary to what you may have been told

> receive exactly zero hours of education in nutrition. The average

> physician receives approximately 12 hours during 6 years of medical

> training and then only when it relates to specific diseases.

> You must remember the important axiom ''that the absence of

> disease does not equal health''. The USDA ''minimum daily

> requirements'' of vitamins and minerals are constantly being

> increased as more and more is being discovered in the connection

> between disease and nutrition. Particularly with respect to

> degenerative disease such as cancer and heart disease.

> To most doctors the world of supplements is like vodoo, they

> havn't a clue. There was a time back in the 1940's when the doctor

> for whom Dana Farber Cancer institute in Boston was named discovered

> a chemo drug that fooled the body's cells into thinking that the drug

> (I don't recall the name) was the essential vitamin Folic Acid. To

> this very day most doctors will tell patients being treated for

> cancer not to take Folic Acid or not to take any B vitamins. This is

> absolutely crazy because Folic Acid is an ''essential'' vitamin and

> you will die if you don't take it at some point. The whole idea was

> to suspend Folic Acid only while being treated with this specific

> drug and then of course you had to have it. Your body stores about a

> 4 month supply of Folic Acid and once that is depleted you are in

> serious trouble. Anyway , the point is, the doctors are like a bunch

> of old cronies spouting off old wives tales because they simply don't

> know the facts.

> Doctors worry that the vitamins, minerals and supplements you

> are taking may interfere with the action of the drugs that they are

> giving you. As for the Pharmacist, what you were told is absolutely

> insane. Virtually all drugs being given to cancer patients

> are ''experimental'' by their very nature. If they were not, then

> everyone would be cured and we know that not to be the case. I assure

> you that whatever drugs they have your husband on ''are part of some

> study''. There are no drugs that I know of that are part of a

> standard ''cure'' for colon cancer. There are many drugs being used

> to treat colon cancer and they will work to a degree up to and

> including perhaps 100 percent depending on the nature of the strain

> of cancer, the patients general age, health and strength of immune

> system.

> What you need to do is to find a support group specifically

> on or some other site that relates to colon cancer and has

> people who are familiar with vitamins, antioxidents and other

> supplements. I don't mean to disparage your sister but by the very

> nature of her occupation she is committed to and a ferverent believer

> in drug based treatment, whether it works or doesn't. That is the

> nature of the beast. I know a man who just recently passed away who

> graduated from the Massachusettes college of Pharmacy back in 1938.

> He knew every herb and herb mixture imaginable. The man's mind was as

> sharp as a tack. I asked him if any of those things worked and he

> told me that ''of course they did, you didn't think I studied all

> that stuff for nothing do you''. So, I asked him what happened and he

> matter of factly told me ''well, the drug companies took over and I

> was the last graduating class to have studied herbal medicines''.

> This man went on to be a pharmacist for 50 years and died at the age

> of 90. He lived in both worlds and knew them both. Unfortunately

> people like your sister and those being educated today know only one,

> and that is truely unfortunate.

> Pharmacists and physicians today are essentially taught only

> drug based medicine so they are simply not the people to be asking

> about vitamins, minerals and herbs other than to find out if they

> know for sure and specifically if any of the drugs they are giving

> you will be interfered with by any supplement you are taking. In fact

> that is all they care about.

> Find some support group on colon cancer and ask around and see

> what others are doing before you make any snap decisions. At least

> interview your doctor to find out if he actually knows anything about

> vitamins and supplements. Most will B.S. their way through a

> converstaion because they don't know anything and are only worried

> that it may interfere with the drugs. You need more information than

> that because you simply do not want your husbands name to be included

> as a statistic in an experimental protocol that failed. Your concern

> is not your husband's doctor's protocol, your concern is to save your

> husband's life by any means possible. Some doctors are very

> knowledgable and will work with you, others are just orthodox

> allopathic doctors who administer the required drugs for the protocol

> and accept whatever happens to their patients as all that can be done.

> If you want to push the envelope you have to get involved and

> learn all that your huspand's doctor knows and then learn a whole lot

> more from as many sources as you can get access to.

>

> Best of luck and God bless.

>

> bob

>

>

[Guest guest]

To everyone who responded to my plea for help - thank you!

You have given me much to think about and many places to look for more

information. Most of what I have found indicates antioxidants make

chemo and radiation more effective - not less. The only specific

contraindication I found pertaining to my husband's situation is beta

carotene which apparently in at least one study has been shown to lower

the effectiveness of 5FU. Our family doctor mentioned this study to us

early on when he recommended the supplements and said the study had been

stopped because outcomes with beta carotene were worse than those

without. He cited this as the only case he was aware of in which

antioxidants didn't have a positive influence on outcome. I seem to

remember the amounts of beta carotene were massive and perhaps the study

included all cancer types....but I'm not sure.

The antioxidant my husband is taking contains 15,000 IU, 300% RDA of

beta carotene along with many other antioxidants. I don't want to stop

the antioxidants if this amount of beta carotene is not a problem. Does

anyone know if this amount is enough to cause a lessening of

effectiveness of 5FU? I'm continuing to search for more information on

this but thought I'd ask in case someone here knows the specific dosages

of beta carotene that cause a problem.

I'm sure our story is similar to many others here in that cancer was

the furthermost thing from our minds just 2 months ago and now has taken

over our lives. It is overwhelming to try and sort through treatment

options and try to figure out what is the best route to follow. Again

thank you all.

Peggy

>

[Guest guest]

To everyone who responded to my plea for help - thank you!

You have given me much to think about and many places to look for more

information. Most of what I have found indicates antioxidants make

chemo and radiation more effective - not less. The only specific

contraindication I found pertaining to my husband's situation is beta

carotene which apparently in at least one study has been shown to lower

the effectiveness of 5FU. Our family doctor mentioned this study to us

early on when he recommended the supplements and said the study had been

stopped because outcomes with beta carotene were worse than those

without. He cited this as the only case he was aware of in which

antioxidants didn't have a positive influence on outcome. I seem to

remember the amounts of beta carotene were massive and perhaps the study

included all cancer types....but I'm not sure.

The antioxidant my husband is taking contains 15,000 IU, 300% RDA of

beta carotene along with many other antioxidants. I don't want to stop

the antioxidants if this amount of beta carotene is not a problem. Does

anyone know if this amount is enough to cause a lessening of

effectiveness of 5FU? I'm continuing to search for more information on

this but thought I'd ask in case someone here knows the specific dosages

of beta carotene that cause a problem.

I'm sure our story is similar to many others here in that cancer was

the furthermost thing from our minds just 2 months ago and now has taken

over our lives. It is overwhelming to try and sort through treatment

options and try to figure out what is the best route to follow. Again

thank you all.

Peggy

>

[Guest guest]

Bob: I was reading about your advice on the supplements etc. My mom has lung

cancer has has been getting weaker and weaker and it has moved to her bones she

was never biopsied we didn't want chemo. I am the only one in my family who is

fighting to find Alternative ways. I am graduating this week from a EMT program

and I have been searching endlessly during the night on the web to try to find

some source to help her. I began a very long journey into Alternative medicine.

I feel that it is the best way, it is a healing process and everything is

intended to rebuild and an nurture the body, soul, and mind as well as drive out

the dis-ease. I know that these things work my parents have taken vitamins and

supplements all of there lives. when my mom was told by her family doctor about

4 years ago she didn't need all those, that she could just take a centrum silver

1 a day and be fine, well, look where she is now. My dad was diagnosed with

Leukemia in 96 he choose no treatment he didnt' stop taking his many vitamins

and supplements and he continues to go today. I do see a big difference in the

two and now she is back on her vitamins and supplements. I am going to start

them both on the flax seed oil and cottage cheese. She isn't eating but maybe

one meal a day and she is sleeping all the time thanks to good old Percadan

three at at time. Now they are doing a biopsy on Friday and have convinced the

family that if she takes Radition it MIGHT help her pain..... NOT! I know it

won't she is in pain from lack of movement (exercise) circulation, malnurished

etc. My question for you Bob is one that might be very detailed but here goes.

How can I learn more about the vitamins and supplements that I am buying for

them and know the difference in which ones have fillers or things that won't be

absorbed by the body? How can I learn how to read a label and know what the best

highest grade possible is and where to buy it? I have looked at Shaklee,

Herbalife, Health food stores. I just don't know what I am looking for or how to

know a quality product. Please help me. Thanks Terri

Re: Advice needed

> Peggy

>

> I don't believe that anyone on here is going to be willing to

> give you medical advice with your husbands life at stake. However,

> you can educate yourself and make an educated decision on your own. I

> think Ralph Moss is a good source and you can call him directly and

> discuss your husbands problem with him. It would be worth whatever he

> might charge and it could be the difference between life and death.

> There is a gross misconception amongst physicians and

> pharmacists regarding vitamins , minerals and antioxidents. First of

> all, todays pharmacists contrary to what you may have been told

> receive exactly zero hours of education in nutrition. The average

> physician receives approximately 12 hours during 6 years of medical

> training and then only when it relates to specific diseases.

> You must remember the important axiom ''that the absence of

> disease does not equal health''. The USDA ''minimum daily

> requirements'' of vitamins and minerals are constantly being

> increased as more and more is being discovered in the connection

> between disease and nutrition. Particularly with respect to

> degenerative disease such as cancer and heart disease.

> To most doctors the world of supplements is like vodoo, they

> havn't a clue. There was a time back in the 1940's when the doctor

> for whom Dana Farber Cancer institute in Boston was named discovered

> a chemo drug that fooled the body's cells into thinking that the drug

> (I don't recall the name) was the essential vitamin Folic Acid. To

> this very day most doctors will tell patients being treated for

> cancer not to take Folic Acid or not to take any B vitamins. This is

> absolutely crazy because Folic Acid is an ''essential'' vitamin and

> you will die if you don't take it at some point. The whole idea was

> to suspend Folic Acid only while being treated with this specific

> drug and then of course you had to have it. Your body stores about a

> 4 month supply of Folic Acid and once that is depleted you are in

> serious trouble. Anyway , the point is, the doctors are like a bunch

> of old cronies spouting off old wives tales because they simply don't

> know the facts.

> Doctors worry that the vitamins, minerals and supplements you

> are taking may interfere with the action of the drugs that they are

> giving you. As for the Pharmacist, what you were told is absolutely

> insane. Virtually all drugs being given to cancer patients

> are ''experimental'' by their very nature. If they were not, then

> everyone would be cured and we know that not to be the case. I assure

> you that whatever drugs they have your husband on ''are part of some

> study''. There are no drugs that I know of that are part of a

> standard ''cure'' for colon cancer. There are many drugs being used

> to treat colon cancer and they will work to a degree up to and

> including perhaps 100 percent depending on the nature of the strain

> of cancer, the patients general age, health and strength of immune

> system.

> What you need to do is to find a support group specifically

> on or some other site that relates to colon cancer and has

> people who are familiar with vitamins, antioxidents and other

> supplements. I don't mean to disparage your sister but by the very

> nature of her occupation she is committed to and a ferverent believer

> in drug based treatment, whether it works or doesn't. That is the

> nature of the beast. I know a man who just recently passed away who

> graduated from the Massachusettes college of Pharmacy back in 1938.

> He knew every herb and herb mixture imaginable. The man's mind was as

> sharp as a tack. I asked him if any of those things worked and he

> told me that ''of course they did, you didn't think I studied all

> that stuff for nothing do you''. So, I asked him what happened and he

> matter of factly told me ''well, the drug companies took over and I

> was the last graduating class to have studied herbal medicines''.

> This man went on to be a pharmacist for 50 years and died at the age

> of 90. He lived in both worlds and knew them both. Unfortunately

> people like your sister and those being educated today know only one,

> and that is truely unfortunate.

> Pharmacists and physicians today are essentially taught only

> drug based medicine so they are simply not the people to be asking

> about vitamins, minerals and herbs other than to find out if they

> know for sure and specifically if any of the drugs they are giving

> you will be interfered with by any supplement you are taking. In fact

> that is all they care about.

> Find some support group on colon cancer and ask around and see

> what others are doing before you make any snap decisions. At least

> interview your doctor to find out if he actually knows anything about

> vitamins and supplements. Most will B.S. their way through a

> converstaion because they don't know anything and are only worried

> that it may interfere with the drugs. You need more information than

> that because you simply do not want your husbands name to be included

> as a statistic in an experimental protocol that failed. Your concern

> is not your husband's doctor's protocol, your concern is to save your

> husband's life by any means possible. Some doctors are very

> knowledgable and will work with you, others are just orthodox

> allopathic doctors who administer the required drugs for the protocol

> and accept whatever happens to their patients as all that can be done.

> If you want to push the envelope you have to get involved and

> learn all that your huspand's doctor knows and then learn a whole lot

> more from as many sources as you can get access to.

>

> Best of luck and God bless.

>

> bob

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bob: I was reading about your advice on the supplements etc. My mom has lung

cancer has has been getting weaker and weaker and it has moved to her bones she

was never biopsied we didn't want chemo. I am the only one in my family who is

fighting to find Alternative ways. I am graduating this week from a EMT program

and I have been searching endlessly during the night on the web to try to find

some source to help her. I began a very long journey into Alternative medicine.

I feel that it is the best way, it is a healing process and everything is

intended to rebuild and an nurture the body, soul, and mind as well as drive out

the dis-ease. I know that these things work my parents have taken vitamins and

supplements all of there lives. when my mom was told by her family doctor about

4 years ago she didn't need all those, that she could just take a centrum silver

1 a day and be fine, well, look where she is now. My dad was diagnosed with

Leukemia in 96 he choose no treatment he didnt' stop taking his many vitamins

and supplements and he continues to go today. I do see a big difference in the

two and now she is back on her vitamins and supplements. I am going to start

them both on the flax seed oil and cottage cheese. She isn't eating but maybe

one meal a day and she is sleeping all the time thanks to good old Percadan

three at at time. Now they are doing a biopsy on Friday and have convinced the

family that if she takes Radition it MIGHT help her pain..... NOT! I know it

won't she is in pain from lack of movement (exercise) circulation, malnurished

etc. My question for you Bob is one that might be very detailed but here goes.

How can I learn more about the vitamins and supplements that I am buying for

them and know the difference in which ones have fillers or things that won't be

absorbed by the body? How can I learn how to read a label and know what the best

highest grade possible is and where to buy it? I have looked at Shaklee,

Herbalife, Health food stores. I just don't know what I am looking for or how to

know a quality product. Please help me. Thanks Terri

Re: Advice needed

> Peggy

>

> I don't believe that anyone on here is going to be willing to

> give you medical advice with your husbands life at stake. However,

> you can educate yourself and make an educated decision on your own. I

> think Ralph Moss is a good source and you can call him directly and

> discuss your husbands problem with him. It would be worth whatever he

> might charge and it could be the difference between life and death.

> There is a gross misconception amongst physicians and

> pharmacists regarding vitamins , minerals and antioxidents. First of

> all, todays pharmacists contrary to what you may have been told

> receive exactly zero hours of education in nutrition. The average

> physician receives approximately 12 hours during 6 years of medical

> training and then only when it relates to specific diseases.

> You must remember the important axiom ''that the absence of

> disease does not equal health''. The USDA ''minimum daily

> requirements'' of vitamins and minerals are constantly being

> increased as more and more is being discovered in the connection

> between disease and nutrition. Particularly with respect to

> degenerative disease such as cancer and heart disease.

> To most doctors the world of supplements is like vodoo, they

> havn't a clue. There was a time back in the 1940's when the doctor

> for whom Dana Farber Cancer institute in Boston was named discovered

> a chemo drug that fooled the body's cells into thinking that the drug

> (I don't recall the name) was the essential vitamin Folic Acid. To

> this very day most doctors will tell patients being treated for

> cancer not to take Folic Acid or not to take any B vitamins. This is

> absolutely crazy because Folic Acid is an ''essential'' vitamin and

> you will die if you don't take it at some point. The whole idea was

> to suspend Folic Acid only while being treated with this specific

> drug and then of course you had to have it. Your body stores about a

> 4 month supply of Folic Acid and once that is depleted you are in

> serious trouble. Anyway , the point is, the doctors are like a bunch

> of old cronies spouting off old wives tales because they simply don't

> know the facts.

> Doctors worry that the vitamins, minerals and supplements you

> are taking may interfere with the action of the drugs that they are

> giving you. As for the Pharmacist, what you were told is absolutely

> insane. Virtually all drugs being given to cancer patients

> are ''experimental'' by their very nature. If they were not, then

> everyone would be cured and we know that not to be the case. I assure

> you that whatever drugs they have your husband on ''are part of some

> study''. There are no drugs that I know of that are part of a

> standard ''cure'' for colon cancer. There are many drugs being used

> to treat colon cancer and they will work to a degree up to and

> including perhaps 100 percent depending on the nature of the strain

> of cancer, the patients general age, health and strength of immune

> system.

> What you need to do is to find a support group specifically

> on or some other site that relates to colon cancer and has

> people who are familiar with vitamins, antioxidents and other

> supplements. I don't mean to disparage your sister but by the very

> nature of her occupation she is committed to and a ferverent believer

> in drug based treatment, whether it works or doesn't. That is the

> nature of the beast. I know a man who just recently passed away who

> graduated from the Massachusettes college of Pharmacy back in 1938.

> He knew every herb and herb mixture imaginable. The man's mind was as

> sharp as a tack. I asked him if any of those things worked and he

> told me that ''of course they did, you didn't think I studied all

> that stuff for nothing do you''. So, I asked him what happened and he

> matter of factly told me ''well, the drug companies took over and I

> was the last graduating class to have studied herbal medicines''.

> This man went on to be a pharmacist for 50 years and died at the age

> of 90. He lived in both worlds and knew them both. Unfortunately

> people like your sister and those being educated today know only one,

> and that is truely unfortunate.

> Pharmacists and physicians today are essentially taught only

> drug based medicine so they are simply not the people to be asking

> about vitamins, minerals and herbs other than to find out if they

> know for sure and specifically if any of the drugs they are giving

> you will be interfered with by any supplement you are taking. In fact

> that is all they care about.

> Find some support group on colon cancer and ask around and see

> what others are doing before you make any snap decisions. At least

> interview your doctor to find out if he actually knows anything about

> vitamins and supplements. Most will B.S. their way through a

> converstaion because they don't know anything and are only worried

> that it may interfere with the drugs. You need more information than

> that because you simply do not want your husbands name to be included

> as a statistic in an experimental protocol that failed. Your concern

> is not your husband's doctor's protocol, your concern is to save your

> husband's life by any means possible. Some doctors are very

> knowledgable and will work with you, others are just orthodox

> allopathic doctors who administer the required drugs for the protocol

> and accept whatever happens to their patients as all that can be done.

> If you want to push the envelope you have to get involved and

> learn all that your huspand's doctor knows and then learn a whole lot

> more from as many sources as you can get access to.

>

> Best of luck and God bless.

>

> bob

>

>

[Guest guest]

Terri, I found Bill 's book a great place to start. It is

full of info and links. see getandstaywell.com

The cottage cheese and fso should help your Mom immensely. My energy

level went up noticably the first week. And yes, get her exercising.

Also see the message a few days ago subject " remission

story/protocol " . Oh, and get her off the narcotics. I just read how

they really suppress the immune system.

Virginia

> Bob: I was reading about your advice on the supplements etc. My

mom has lung cancer has has been getting weaker and weaker and it

has moved to her bones she was never biopsied we didn't want chemo.

I am the only one in my family who is fighting to find Alternative

ways. I am graduating this week from a EMT program and I have been

searching endlessly during the night on the web to try to find some

source to help her. I began a very long journey into Alternative

medicine. I feel that it is the best way, it is a healing process

and everything is intended to rebuild and an nurture the body, soul,

and mind as well as drive out the dis-ease. I know that these things

work my parents have taken vitamins and supplements all of there

lives. when my mom was told by her family doctor about 4 years ago

she didn't need all those, that she could just take a centrum silver

1 a day and be fine, well, look where she is now. My dad was

diagnosed with Leukemia in 96 he choose no treatment he didnt' stop

taking his many vitamins and supplements and he continues to go

today. I do see a big difference in the two and now she is back on

her vitamins and supplements. I am going to start them both on the

flax seed oil and cottage cheese. She isn't eating but maybe one

meal a day and she is sleeping all the time thanks to good old

Percadan three at at time. Now they are doing a biopsy on Friday and

have convinced the family that if she takes Radition it MIGHT help

her pain..... NOT! I know it won't she is in pain from lack of

movement (exercise) circulation, malnurished etc. My question for

you Bob is one that might be very detailed but here goes. How can I

learn more about the vitamins and supplements that I am buying for

them and know the difference in which ones have fillers or things

that won't be absorbed by the body? How can I learn how to read a

label and know what the best highest grade possible is and where to

buy it? I have looked at Shaklee, Herbalife, Health food stores. I

just don't know what I am looking for or how to know a quality

product. Please help me. Thanks Terri

>

> Re: Advice needed

>

>

> > Peggy

> >

> > I don't believe that anyone on here is going to be willing

to

> > give you medical advice with your husbands life at stake.

However,

> > you can educate yourself and make an educated decision on your

own. I

> > think Ralph Moss is a good source and you can call him directly

and

> > discuss your husbands problem with him. It would be worth

whatever he

> > might charge and it could be the difference between life and

death.

> > There is a gross misconception amongst physicians and

> > pharmacists regarding vitamins , minerals and antioxidents.

First of

> > all, todays pharmacists contrary to what you may have been told

> > receive exactly zero hours of education in nutrition. The average

> > physician receives approximately 12 hours during 6 years of

medical

> > training and then only when it relates to specific diseases.

> > You must remember the important axiom ''that the absence

of

> > disease does not equal health''. The USDA ''minimum daily

> > requirements'' of vitamins and minerals are constantly being

> > increased as more and more is being discovered in the connection

> > between disease and nutrition. Particularly with respect to

> > degenerative disease such as cancer and heart disease.

> > To most doctors the world of supplements is like vodoo,

they

> > havn't a clue. There was a time back in the 1940's when the

doctor

> > for whom Dana Farber Cancer institute in Boston was named

discovered

> > a chemo drug that fooled the body's cells into thinking that the

drug

> > (I don't recall the name) was the essential vitamin Folic Acid.

To

> > this very day most doctors will tell patients being treated for

> > cancer not to take Folic Acid or not to take any B vitamins.

This is

> > absolutely crazy because Folic Acid is an ''essential'' vitamin

and

> > you will die if you don't take it at some point. The whole idea

was

> > to suspend Folic Acid only while being treated with this specific

> > drug and then of course you had to have it. Your body stores

about a

> > 4 month supply of Folic Acid and once that is depleted you are in

> > serious trouble. Anyway , the point is, the doctors are like a

bunch

> > of old cronies spouting off old wives tales because they simply

don't

> > know the facts.

> > Doctors worry that the vitamins, minerals and supplements

you

> > are taking may interfere with the action of the drugs that they

are

> > giving you. As for the Pharmacist, what you were told is

absolutely

> > insane. Virtually all drugs being given to cancer patients

> > are ''experimental'' by their very nature. If they were not, then

> > everyone would be cured and we know that not to be the case. I

assure

> > you that whatever drugs they have your husband on ''are part of

some

> > study''. There are no drugs that I know of that are part of a

> > standard ''cure'' for colon cancer. There are many drugs being

used

> > to treat colon cancer and they will work to a degree up to and

> > including perhaps 100 percent depending on the nature of the

strain

> > of cancer, the patients general age, health and strength of

immune

> > system.

> > What you need to do is to find a support group

specifically

> > on or some other site that relates to colon cancer and has

> > people who are familiar with vitamins, antioxidents and other

> > supplements. I don't mean to disparage your sister but by the

very

> > nature of her occupation she is committed to and a ferverent

believer

> > in drug based treatment, whether it works or doesn't. That is the

> > nature of the beast. I know a man who just recently passed away

who

> > graduated from the Massachusettes college of Pharmacy back in

1938.

> > He knew every herb and herb mixture imaginable. The man's mind

was as

> > sharp as a tack. I asked him if any of those things worked and he

> > told me that ''of course they did, you didn't think I studied all

> > that stuff for nothing do you''. So, I asked him what happened

and he

> > matter of factly told me ''well, the drug companies took over

and I

> > was the last graduating class to have studied herbal medicines''.

> > This man went on to be a pharmacist for 50 years and died at the

age

> > of 90. He lived in both worlds and knew them both. Unfortunately

> > people like your sister and those being educated today know only

one,

> > and that is truely unfortunate.

> > Pharmacists and physicians today are essentially taught

only

> > drug based medicine so they are simply not the people to be

asking

> > about vitamins, minerals and herbs other than to find out if they

> > know for sure and specifically if any of the drugs they are

giving

> > you will be interfered with by any supplement you are taking. In

fact

> > that is all they care about.

> > Find some support group on colon cancer and ask around

and see

> > what others are doing before you make any snap decisions. At

least

> > interview your doctor to find out if he actually knows anything

about

> > vitamins and supplements. Most will B.S. their way through a

> > converstaion because they don't know anything and are only

worried

> > that it may interfere with the drugs. You need more information

than

> > that because you simply do not want your husbands name to be

included

> > as a statistic in an experimental protocol that failed. Your

concern

> > is not your husband's doctor's protocol, your concern is to save

your

> > husband's life by any means possible. Some doctors are very

> > knowledgable and will work with you, others are just orthodox

> > allopathic doctors who administer the required drugs for the

protocol

> > and accept whatever happens to their patients as all that can be

done.

> > If you want to push the envelope you have to get involved

and

> > learn all that your huspand's doctor knows and then learn a

whole lot

> > more from as many sources as you can get access to.

> >

> > Best of luck and God bless.

> >

> > bob

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Terri, I found Bill 's book a great place to start. It is

full of info and links. see getandstaywell.com

The cottage cheese and fso should help your Mom immensely. My energy

level went up noticably the first week. And yes, get her exercising.

Also see the message a few days ago subject " remission

story/protocol " . Oh, and get her off the narcotics. I just read how

they really suppress the immune system.

Virginia

> Bob: I was reading about your advice on the supplements etc. My

mom has lung cancer has has been getting weaker and weaker and it

has moved to her bones she was never biopsied we didn't want chemo.

I am the only one in my family who is fighting to find Alternative

ways. I am graduating this week from a EMT program and I have been

searching endlessly during the night on the web to try to find some

source to help her. I began a very long journey into Alternative

medicine. I feel that it is the best way, it is a healing process

and everything is intended to rebuild and an nurture the body, soul,

and mind as well as drive out the dis-ease. I know that these things

work my parents have taken vitamins and supplements all of there

lives. when my mom was told by her family doctor about 4 years ago

she didn't need all those, that she could just take a centrum silver

1 a day and be fine, well, look where she is now. My dad was

diagnosed with Leukemia in 96 he choose no treatment he didnt' stop

taking his many vitamins and supplements and he continues to go

today. I do see a big difference in the two and now she is back on

her vitamins and supplements. I am going to start them both on the

flax seed oil and cottage cheese. She isn't eating but maybe one

meal a day and she is sleeping all the time thanks to good old

Percadan three at at time. Now they are doing a biopsy on Friday and

have convinced the family that if she takes Radition it MIGHT help

her pain..... NOT! I know it won't she is in pain from lack of

movement (exercise) circulation, malnurished etc. My question for

you Bob is one that might be very detailed but here goes. How can I

learn more about the vitamins and supplements that I am buying for

them and know the difference in which ones have fillers or things

that won't be absorbed by the body? How can I learn how to read a

label and know what the best highest grade possible is and where to

buy it? I have looked at Shaklee, Herbalife, Health food stores. I

just don't know what I am looking for or how to know a quality

product. Please help me. Thanks Terri

>

> Re: Advice needed

>

>

> > Peggy

> >

> > I don't believe that anyone on here is going to be willing

to

> > give you medical advice with your husbands life at stake.

However,

> > you can educate yourself and make an educated decision on your

own. I

> > think Ralph Moss is a good source and you can call him directly

and

> > discuss your husbands problem with him. It would be worth

whatever he

> > might charge and it could be the difference between life and

death.

> > There is a gross misconception amongst physicians and

> > pharmacists regarding vitamins , minerals and antioxidents.

First of

> > all, todays pharmacists contrary to what you may have been told

> > receive exactly zero hours of education in nutrition. The average

> > physician receives approximately 12 hours during 6 years of

medical

> > training and then only when it relates to specific diseases.

> > You must remember the important axiom ''that the absence

of

> > disease does not equal health''. The USDA ''minimum daily

> > requirements'' of vitamins and minerals are constantly being

> > increased as more and more is being discovered in the connection

> > between disease and nutrition. Particularly with respect to

> > degenerative disease such as cancer and heart disease.

> > To most doctors the world of supplements is like vodoo,

they

> > havn't a clue. There was a time back in the 1940's when the

doctor

> > for whom Dana Farber Cancer institute in Boston was named

discovered

> > a chemo drug that fooled the body's cells into thinking that the

drug

> > (I don't recall the name) was the essential vitamin Folic Acid.

To

> > this very day most doctors will tell patients being treated for

> > cancer not to take Folic Acid or not to take any B vitamins.

This is

> > absolutely crazy because Folic Acid is an ''essential'' vitamin

and

> > you will die if you don't take it at some point. The whole idea

was

> > to suspend Folic Acid only while being treated with this specific

> > drug and then of course you had to have it. Your body stores

about a

> > 4 month supply of Folic Acid and once that is depleted you are in

> > serious trouble. Anyway , the point is, the doctors are like a

bunch

> > of old cronies spouting off old wives tales because they simply

don't

> > know the facts.

> > Doctors worry that the vitamins, minerals and supplements

you

> > are taking may interfere with the action of the drugs that they

are

> > giving you. As for the Pharmacist, what you were told is

absolutely

> > insane. Virtually all drugs being given to cancer patients

> > are ''experimental'' by their very nature. If they were not, then

> > everyone would be cured and we know that not to be the case. I

assure

> > you that whatever drugs they have your husband on ''are part of

some

> > study''. There are no drugs that I know of that are part of a

> > standard ''cure'' for colon cancer. There are many drugs being

used

> > to treat colon cancer and they will work to a degree up to and

> > including perhaps 100 percent depending on the nature of the

strain

> > of cancer, the patients general age, health and strength of

immune

> > system.

> > What you need to do is to find a support group

specifically

> > on or some other site that relates to colon cancer and has

> > people who are familiar with vitamins, antioxidents and other

> > supplements. I don't mean to disparage your sister but by the

very

> > nature of her occupation she is committed to and a ferverent

believer

> > in drug based treatment, whether it works or doesn't. That is the

> > nature of the beast. I know a man who just recently passed away

who

> > graduated from the Massachusettes college of Pharmacy back in

1938.

> > He knew every herb and herb mixture imaginable. The man's mind

was as

> > sharp as a tack. I asked him if any of those things worked and he

> > told me that ''of course they did, you didn't think I studied all

> > that stuff for nothing do you''. So, I asked him what happened

and he

> > matter of factly told me ''well, the drug companies took over

and I

> > was the last graduating class to have studied herbal medicines''.

> > This man went on to be a pharmacist for 50 years and died at the

age

> > of 90. He lived in both worlds and knew them both. Unfortunately

> > people like your sister and those being educated today know only

one,

> > and that is truely unfortunate.

> > Pharmacists and physicians today are essentially taught

only

> > drug based medicine so they are simply not the people to be

asking

> > about vitamins, minerals and herbs other than to find out if they

> > know for sure and specifically if any of the drugs they are

giving

> > you will be interfered with by any supplement you are taking. In

fact

> > that is all they care about.

> > Find some support group on colon cancer and ask around

and see

> > what others are doing before you make any snap decisions. At

least

> > interview your doctor to find out if he actually knows anything

about

> > vitamins and supplements. Most will B.S. their way through a

> > converstaion because they don't know anything and are only

worried

> > that it may interfere with the drugs. You need more information

than

> > that because you simply do not want your husbands name to be

included

> > as a statistic in an experimental protocol that failed. Your

concern

> > is not your husband's doctor's protocol, your concern is to save

your

> > husband's life by any means possible. Some doctors are very

> > knowledgable and will work with you, others are just orthodox

> > allopathic doctors who administer the required drugs for the

protocol

> > and accept whatever happens to their patients as all that can be

done.

> > If you want to push the envelope you have to get involved

and

> > learn all that your huspand's doctor knows and then learn a

whole lot

> > more from as many sources as you can get access to.

> >

> > Best of luck and God bless.

> >

> > bob

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Terri - I'm not an expert but I believe my family doctor is somewhat of

an expert. He's been studying nutritional medicine for 13 years and he

recommended Usana for my husband's supplements.

http://www.usana-nutritionals.com

He also recommended the book by Dr. Ray Strand " What your doctor doesn't

know about nutritional medicine may be killing you " . I've just started

to read it but Dr. Strand also recommends Usana. Dr. Strand's website

is http://www.bionutrition.org and it has some good information - though

I think he requires a subscription fee to access all areas of the site.

I'm sure the companies you mention have good products also but I thought

I'd pass this along to you as I know my doc and his partners

investigated the company and it's processes thoroughly (including going

to Utah[from PA] to check everything out) before recommending it to

their patients.

Best to you and your mom - my prayers are with you,

Peggy

Terri Horn-Drury wrote:

> My question for you Bob is one that might be very detailed but here

> goes. How can I learn more about the vitamins and supplements that I

> am buying for them and know the difference in which ones have fillers

> or things that won't be absorbed by the body? How can I learn how to

> read a label and know what the best highest grade possible is and

> where to buy it? I have looked at Shaklee, Herbalife, Health food

> stores. I just don't know what I am looking for or how to know a

> quality product. Please help me. Thanks Terri

>

[Guest guest]

Terri - I'm not an expert but I believe my family doctor is somewhat of

an expert. He's been studying nutritional medicine for 13 years and he

recommended Usana for my husband's supplements.

http://www.usana-nutritionals.com

He also recommended the book by Dr. Ray Strand " What your doctor doesn't

know about nutritional medicine may be killing you " . I've just started

to read it but Dr. Strand also recommends Usana. Dr. Strand's website

is http://www.bionutrition.org and it has some good information - though

I think he requires a subscription fee to access all areas of the site.

I'm sure the companies you mention have good products also but I thought

I'd pass this along to you as I know my doc and his partners

investigated the company and it's processes thoroughly (including going

to Utah[from PA] to check everything out) before recommending it to

their patients.

Best to you and your mom - my prayers are with you,

Peggy

Terri Horn-Drury wrote:

> My question for you Bob is one that might be very detailed but here

> goes. How can I learn more about the vitamins and supplements that I

> am buying for them and know the difference in which ones have fillers

> or things that won't be absorbed by the body? How can I learn how to

> read a label and know what the best highest grade possible is and

> where to buy it? I have looked at Shaklee, Herbalife, Health food

> stores. I just don't know what I am looking for or how to know a

> quality product. Please help me. Thanks Terri

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the name of the chemo drug, I wasn't looking

forward to the time I would need to find it. As for keeping a

positive outlook, my Qi Gong teacher once told me not to overlook the

placebo effect. In western society we make fun of it but in reality ,

if you step back for a moment and look at it, you realize just how

powerful the mind can be that it can act as a very powerful drug when

it can be fooled into thinking it is receiving a drug. That is just

scratching the surface as taking a fake pill in place of a real one

is a mere parlor trick compared to training the mind to do all sorts

of things. I think a positive outlook is essential for recovery.

BOB

> Bob,

>

> Your advice to Peggy is excellent.

> As to the methotrexate and folic acid, it would have been very

rational

> to suppress folic acid during the early methotrexate years as either

> chemical can occupy the same receptor. Should the physician tell

the

> patient that he/she has no idea how this recommendation will change

over the

> next few years as experience and additional studies enter the

picture, or as

> lassitude, politics and economics muddy the water? Most patients

though

> would rather hear assertive dicta from their physician. Perhaps it

is good

> medicine to overstate positive expectations to the patient. No one

can deny

> the psychological component of regaining health.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the name of the chemo drug, I wasn't looking

forward to the time I would need to find it. As for keeping a

positive outlook, my Qi Gong teacher once told me not to overlook the

placebo effect. In western society we make fun of it but in reality ,

if you step back for a moment and look at it, you realize just how

powerful the mind can be that it can act as a very powerful drug when

it can be fooled into thinking it is receiving a drug. That is just

scratching the surface as taking a fake pill in place of a real one

is a mere parlor trick compared to training the mind to do all sorts

of things. I think a positive outlook is essential for recovery.

BOB

> Bob,

>

> Your advice to Peggy is excellent.

> As to the methotrexate and folic acid, it would have been very

rational

> to suppress folic acid during the early methotrexate years as either

> chemical can occupy the same receptor. Should the physician tell

the

> patient that he/she has no idea how this recommendation will change

over the

> next few years as experience and additional studies enter the

picture, or as

> lassitude, politics and economics muddy the water? Most patients

though

> would rather hear assertive dicta from their physician. Perhaps it

is good

> medicine to overstate positive expectations to the patient. No one

can deny

> the psychological component of regaining health.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/23/03 11:43:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

pdurant@... writes:

> I'm not an expert but I believe my family doctor is somewhat of

> an expert. He's been studying nutritional medicine for 13 years and he

> recommended Usana for my husband's supplements.

>

This is what I found on their website....

The income you receive from USANA will be in direct proportion to your

ability to recommend the USANA products to your customers, and your ability

to build an organization of Associates who, like you, build a customer base

along with an organization of Associates.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/23/03 11:43:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

pdurant@... writes:

> I'm not an expert but I believe my family doctor is somewhat of

> an expert. He's been studying nutritional medicine for 13 years and he

> recommended Usana for my husband's supplements.

>

This is what I found on their website....

The income you receive from USANA will be in direct proportion to your

ability to recommend the USANA products to your customers, and your ability

to build an organization of Associates who, like you, build a customer base

along with an organization of Associates.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/24/03 8:47:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

pdurant@... writes:

> If my doctor makes some

> money when we buy the product, I don't care.

It isn't a question of being paid for one's services. I think the point that

I was trying to make is that your doctor may not be making a decision based

on the best product available but on a personal agenda. On the other hand,

this product may be as good or better than most. I would like to find that

out from an independent source whenever possible.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/24/03 8:47:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

pdurant@... writes:

> If my doctor makes some

> money when we buy the product, I don't care.

It isn't a question of being paid for one's services. I think the point that

I was trying to make is that your doctor may not be making a decision based

on the best product available but on a personal agenda. On the other hand,

this product may be as good or better than most. I would like to find that

out from an independent source whenever possible.

[Guest guest]

I am a purchaser of the products based on the recommendation of my

doctor who has been a much needed help during the most stressful time in

our lives. I do not know anything about the structure of the

company...just passing along information as to how I became acquainted

with them.

If it is a multi-level company, I don't care. If my doctor makes some

money when we buy the product, I don't care. I believe he also makes

money when he charges us for an office visit - does that make him bad?

I believe Shaklee, Herbalife and others mentioned by Terri are also

structured that way. In addition, health food stores make a profit as

does every company making and/or selling a product. Show me a

vitamin/supplement provider that doesn't make a profit on their sales

and share that profit with their distributors or employees - I'd be

interested to see how long they are in business.

Peggy

szukidavis@... wrote:

> In a message dated 4/23/03 11:43:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> pdurant@... writes:

>

>

> > I'm not an expert but I believe my family doctor is somewhat of

> > an expert. He's been studying nutritional medicine for 13 years and

> he

> > recommended Usana for my husband's supplements.

> >

> This is what I found on their website....

> The income you receive from USANA will be in direct proportion to your

>

> ability to recommend the USANA products to your customers, and your

> ability

> to build an organization of Associates who, like you, build a customer

> base

> along with an organization of Associates.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am a purchaser of the products based on the recommendation of my

doctor who has been a much needed help during the most stressful time in

our lives. I do not know anything about the structure of the

company...just passing along information as to how I became acquainted

with them.

If it is a multi-level company, I don't care. If my doctor makes some

money when we buy the product, I don't care. I believe he also makes

money when he charges us for an office visit - does that make him bad?

I believe Shaklee, Herbalife and others mentioned by Terri are also

structured that way. In addition, health food stores make a profit as

does every company making and/or selling a product. Show me a

vitamin/supplement provider that doesn't make a profit on their sales

and share that profit with their distributors or employees - I'd be

interested to see how long they are in business.

Peggy

szukidavis@... wrote:

> In a message dated 4/23/03 11:43:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> pdurant@... writes:

>

>

> > I'm not an expert but I believe my family doctor is somewhat of

> > an expert. He's been studying nutritional medicine for 13 years and

> he

> > recommended Usana for my husband's supplements.

> >

> This is what I found on their website....

> The income you receive from USANA will be in direct proportion to your

>

> ability to recommend the USANA products to your customers, and your

> ability

> to build an organization of Associates who, like you, build a customer

> base

> along with an organization of Associates.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/24/03 9:35:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

pdurant@... writes:

> I feel pretty

> sure that our doc is not just looking out for himself in this as we have

> been his patients for 18 years and only when we asked about nutritional

> supplements following Tim's cancer diagnosis did he tell us about the

> Usana products and the hyperimmune egg powder.

I am sure that what you are using is a good product. We just don't know if

there is a better one/ comparable but less expensive etc because your doctor

is tied in with this company. Hopefully he did his research and is offering

both quality and a means to earn extra income at the same time.

Good luck.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/24/03 9:35:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

pdurant@... writes:

> I feel pretty

> sure that our doc is not just looking out for himself in this as we have

> been his patients for 18 years and only when we asked about nutritional

> supplements following Tim's cancer diagnosis did he tell us about the

> Usana products and the hyperimmune egg powder.

I am sure that what you are using is a good product. We just don't know if

there is a better one/ comparable but less expensive etc because your doctor

is tied in with this company. Hopefully he did his research and is offering

both quality and a means to earn extra income at the same time.

Good luck.

[Guest guest]

- Maybe I over reacted to what I took as criticism when you were

just trying to alert me to possible ulterior motives. I feel pretty

sure that our doc is not just looking out for himself in this as we have

been his patients for 18 years and only when we asked about nutritional

supplements following Tim's cancer diagnosis did he tell us about the

Usana products and the hyperimmune egg powder. I didn't feel we had

time to research all the companies out there, nor did we have the

slightest idea what exactly Tim should be taking. I was just grateful

that our doctor had been studying the subject for a long time and had

formed some definite ideas about what would be the most helpful program

for my husband's situation. As has been stated here and other places,

most MD's know next to nothing about nutrition - to have one that has

taken a special interest in the subject is a blessing. Prior to this he

had recommended flaxseed oil, antioxidants and vitamins when our son who

is an athlete was training intensely and finding himself vulnerable to

infections. But he did not specify any particular brand or company then

- I suppose because it was not a life and death situation.

You are right, thought, it is always good to be cautious and I may

decide later to switch suppliers if I can find one that has the same

quality and kind of supplements for a lower price.

Thanks -

Peggy

szukidavis@... wrote:

> It isn't a question of being paid for one's services. I think the

> point that

> I was trying to make is that your doctor may not be making a decision

> based

> on the best product available but on a personal agenda. On the other

> hand,

> this product may be as good or better than most. I would like to find

> that

> out from an independent source whenever possible.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

- Maybe I over reacted to what I took as criticism when you were

just trying to alert me to possible ulterior motives. I feel pretty

sure that our doc is not just looking out for himself in this as we have

been his patients for 18 years and only when we asked about nutritional

supplements following Tim's cancer diagnosis did he tell us about the

Usana products and the hyperimmune egg powder. I didn't feel we had

time to research all the companies out there, nor did we have the

slightest idea what exactly Tim should be taking. I was just grateful

that our doctor had been studying the subject for a long time and had

formed some definite ideas about what would be the most helpful program

for my husband's situation. As has been stated here and other places,

most MD's know next to nothing about nutrition - to have one that has

taken a special interest in the subject is a blessing. Prior to this he

had recommended flaxseed oil, antioxidants and vitamins when our son who

is an athlete was training intensely and finding himself vulnerable to

infections. But he did not specify any particular brand or company then

- I suppose because it was not a life and death situation.

You are right, thought, it is always good to be cautious and I may

decide later to switch suppliers if I can find one that has the same

quality and kind of supplements for a lower price.

Thanks -

Peggy

szukidavis@... wrote:

> It isn't a question of being paid for one's services. I think the

> point that

> I was trying to make is that your doctor may not be making a decision

> based

> on the best product available but on a personal agenda. On the other

> hand,

> this product may be as good or better than most. I would like to find

> that

> out from an independent source whenever possible.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 12:35 PM 4/24/03 +0000, you wrote:

> From: " Peggy C. Durant " <pdurant@...>

>Subject: Re: Re: Advice needed

>

>I am a purchaser of the products based on the recommendation of my

>doctor who has been a much needed help during the most stressful time in

>our lives. I do not know anything about the structure of the

>company...just passing along information as to how I became acquainted

>with them.

>

>If it is a multi-level company, I don't care.

Peggy,

The " marketplace " is lacking quality products, period. Thankfully, there

are still some companies that provide excellent products, and yes, some of

them are MLM. The accusation by anyone that people who sell MLM products,

or that these companies are out to make money, are ridiculous when you

consider that pharmaceutical companies are extremely predatory, and their

financial fortunes control the education of every single " licensed "

physician in this country, period. There just isn't any lucid comparison

of the two.

Chemo has a 3% cure rate, period. That's worse than any study on the

effects of prayer in the same conditions. You are better off PRAYING than

using chemo. And radiation isn't any better.

I've been on this list for nearly FOUR YEARS, and still see people jumping

off cliffs to use chemo and radiation, regardless of all the information

posted here that spells out the destruction it causes. Personally, I have

yet to meet ONE person who's used chemo or radiation and lived to talk

about it. The opposite is true of people who have used countless other

" natural therapies " .

Be sure of this, if anyone using an alternative treatment successfully

treats themselves or another, one of two things will happen. Either the

person will be drummed out of their natural society of friends, and

shunned, because they survived and their companions didn't. Or they will

quietly resume their lives with no fanfare about what methods they used to

heal. A very tiny portion of people will participate on lists like this

talking about the flax seed oil, or whatever products they used that helped

them heal, but the majority will continue to jump off the cliffs ignoring

all advice.

The truth is, and this comes from marketing research, so we can trust

following the money trail, most people, over 85% use alternative

treatments to mitigate the side effects of their conventional

treatments. For instance, herbal laxatives are used as stool softeners

when pain medications and chemo drugs stop the bowel function. Reducing

the function of the metal element (colon and lungs) of the body undermines

the strength of the " INSPIRATIVE " function of the body, according to

Traditional Chinese Medicine. It also keeps the body (read, soul and

spirit) from being able to RELEASE and REMOVE waste.

The way through disease is THROUGH it, not medicating and stopping it's

natural course.

I could continue, but it feels like I'm talking to the wind every time I

post here. I'll end with a small thought. Disease, including Cancer is

the body's attempt at creating balance, and keeping the body

alive. The cancer is a NEEDFUL thing to protect the body from an all out

assault on all it's organ systems. Until we start dealing with cancer as

part of the cure that the body is creating to survive, we'll never be able

to " FIGHT " it. It's obscene to fight what the body is doing to HEAL. The

body is NOT profane, and it's NOT the enemy. The body is a magical

organism of perfection, healing and protection.

Bringing the body into balance heals disease. If you want to heal, restore

the vital force of the body, by removing impediments and nourishing

it. It's my opinion that you'll need the assistance of a skilled homeopath

to address the emotional aspects of your disease and other " vibrational "

products that remove toxins safely. The body will do the rest.

My one prayer for healing in this lifetime is that we heal our emotional

and spiritual depravity, because treating the body like pieces and parts

with chemicals and organic solutions is part of the diseased process that

keeps us all slaves to masters that we can't fight or even see.

Imagine what a world without cancer or disease would be like?? If you

really understood what I'm saying, you'd know that I'm talking about the

collapse of the economic structure of the world. What would we have in

it's place? Happy healthy people to fight in wars?

So, you see....... disease is a needful thing. It's part of the structure

of known things, that you rarely consider. Disease fills a " need " in our

society, and it's about balance. Right now, in this moment in our

history, without disease, our world would spin wildly out of

control. Because we have no emotional or spiritual framework which would

make us free.

This is why I see homeopathy and vibrational products as the only possible

solution to our " disease " . We must first learn what it FEELS like to be

well. And we must change from our emotions and spirit first.

As above so below. The body only follows what's already in the spirit and

emotions. If the spirit and emotions are diseased, out of balance, toxic,

blocked, malnourished, then we must have disease in the physical body.

As much as I read this list, I rarely, if ever, see anyone discuss

WHOLENESS or BALANCE as a cure for cancer. You'd think that out of the

hundreds of people here, there would be more than a handful who understand

and break the silence. We're not pieces and parts, we're vibrational in

nature, and dense forms of energy, not a cancer to be cut, burned or

poisoned. We are holy.

being and becoming....... whole,

Moe

" Field is the only reality, there is no physical matter, only denser and

denser fields. " ~ Albert Einstein

[Guest guest]

At 12:35 PM 4/24/03 +0000, you wrote:

> From: " Peggy C. Durant " <pdurant@...>

>Subject: Re: Re: Advice needed

>

>I am a purchaser of the products based on the recommendation of my

>doctor who has been a much needed help during the most stressful time in

>our lives. I do not know anything about the structure of the

>company...just passing along information as to how I became acquainted

>with them.

>

>If it is a multi-level company, I don't care.

Peggy,

The " marketplace " is lacking quality products, period. Thankfully, there

are still some companies that provide excellent products, and yes, some of

them are MLM. The accusation by anyone that people who sell MLM products,

or that these companies are out to make money, are ridiculous when you

consider that pharmaceutical companies are extremely predatory, and their

financial fortunes control the education of every single " licensed "

physician in this country, period. There just isn't any lucid comparison

of the two.

Chemo has a 3% cure rate, period. That's worse than any study on the

effects of prayer in the same conditions. You are better off PRAYING than

using chemo. And radiation isn't any better.

I've been on this list for nearly FOUR YEARS, and still see people jumping

off cliffs to use chemo and radiation, regardless of all the information

posted here that spells out the destruction it causes. Personally, I have

yet to meet ONE person who's used chemo or radiation and lived to talk

about it. The opposite is true of people who have used countless other

" natural therapies " .

Be sure of this, if anyone using an alternative treatment successfully

treats themselves or another, one of two things will happen. Either the

person will be drummed out of their natural society of friends, and

shunned, because they survived and their companions didn't. Or they will

quietly resume their lives with no fanfare about what methods they used to

heal. A very tiny portion of people will participate on lists like this

talking about the flax seed oil, or whatever products they used that helped

them heal, but the majority will continue to jump off the cliffs ignoring

all advice.

The truth is, and this comes from marketing research, so we can trust

following the money trail, most people, over 85% use alternative

treatments to mitigate the side effects of their conventional

treatments. For instance, herbal laxatives are used as stool softeners

when pain medications and chemo drugs stop the bowel function. Reducing

the function of the metal element (colon and lungs) of the body undermines

the strength of the " INSPIRATIVE " function of the body, according to

Traditional Chinese Medicine. It also keeps the body (read, soul and

spirit) from being able to RELEASE and REMOVE waste.

The way through disease is THROUGH it, not medicating and stopping it's

natural course.

I could continue, but it feels like I'm talking to the wind every time I

post here. I'll end with a small thought. Disease, including Cancer is

the body's attempt at creating balance, and keeping the body

alive. The cancer is a NEEDFUL thing to protect the body from an all out

assault on all it's organ systems. Until we start dealing with cancer as

part of the cure that the body is creating to survive, we'll never be able

to " FIGHT " it. It's obscene to fight what the body is doing to HEAL. The

body is NOT profane, and it's NOT the enemy. The body is a magical

organism of perfection, healing and protection.

Bringing the body into balance heals disease. If you want to heal, restore

the vital force of the body, by removing impediments and nourishing

it. It's my opinion that you'll need the assistance of a skilled homeopath

to address the emotional aspects of your disease and other " vibrational "

products that remove toxins safely. The body will do the rest.

My one prayer for healing in this lifetime is that we heal our emotional

and spiritual depravity, because treating the body like pieces and parts

with chemicals and organic solutions is part of the diseased process that

keeps us all slaves to masters that we can't fight or even see.

Imagine what a world without cancer or disease would be like?? If you

really understood what I'm saying, you'd know that I'm talking about the

collapse of the economic structure of the world. What would we have in

it's place? Happy healthy people to fight in wars?

So, you see....... disease is a needful thing. It's part of the structure

of known things, that you rarely consider. Disease fills a " need " in our

society, and it's about balance. Right now, in this moment in our

history, without disease, our world would spin wildly out of

control. Because we have no emotional or spiritual framework which would

make us free.

This is why I see homeopathy and vibrational products as the only possible

solution to our " disease " . We must first learn what it FEELS like to be

well. And we must change from our emotions and spirit first.

As above so below. The body only follows what's already in the spirit and

emotions. If the spirit and emotions are diseased, out of balance, toxic,

blocked, malnourished, then we must have disease in the physical body.

As much as I read this list, I rarely, if ever, see anyone discuss

WHOLENESS or BALANCE as a cure for cancer. You'd think that out of the

hundreds of people here, there would be more than a handful who understand

and break the silence. We're not pieces and parts, we're vibrational in

nature, and dense forms of energy, not a cancer to be cut, burned or

poisoned. We are holy.

being and becoming....... whole,

Moe

" Field is the only reality, there is no physical matter, only denser and

denser fields. " ~ Albert Einstein

[Guest guest]

I Use Usana also. I feel it's too bad they chose to market via MLM,

I wish they wouldn't. But it is a great product. You don't have to

get involved witht he MLM, you can just be a retail customer.

Virginia

> In a message dated 4/24/03 9:35:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> pdurant@c... writes:

>

>

> > I feel pretty

> > sure that our doc is not just looking out for himself in this as

we have

> > been his patients for 18 years and only when we asked about

nutritional

> > supplements following Tim's cancer diagnosis did he tell us

about the

> > Usana products and the hyperimmune egg powder.

>

> I am sure that what you are using is a good product. We just

don't know if

> there is a better one/ comparable but less expensive etc because

your doctor

> is tied in with this company. Hopefully he did his research and

is offering

> both quality and a means to earn extra income at the same time.

> Good luck.

>

>

>

>