trouble sleeping

[Guest guest]

Cherie,

I know what you mean about kinesiology. The naturopath

I saw (on my doctors recommendation) used an

electronic device to test various homeopathic remedies

on me. It really took a leap of faith to follow his

recommendations. . . But, they worked! How, or why, I

have no idea! I saw a program on an educational

channel that said each organ in our body has it's own

vibratory frequency. This was what the naturopath was

trying to explain. He said that the remedies he

recommended were targeted to bring the frequency of

various organs to normal so my body would function

right. - Still it doesn't make sense to me. But if it

works, I'll accept it!

I had thousands of dollars worth of tests run to no

avail before seeing the naturopath. The doctors even

recommended medication (Neurontin) that, I later

found, made my problem worse by depleting the

Magnesium in my body.

IMHO, I'll try anything that doesn't hold the

possiblity of making me worse! . . . Of course, I have

to keep an eye on the budget too!

Personally, I feel that I'm drawn to therapies that I

need, or repelled by those I don't need - if I just

listen to my inner voice. Don't try to do everything

at once! . . . That's way to stressful. . . Select

what you want to try, do one thing at a time and

gradually layer on new things. Recovering from breast

implants is seldom an instant thing. Things will

become clearer as you begin getting better.

Hugs and prayers,

Rogene

--- Cherie <cheriesut@...> wrote:

> Rogene - thank you - I'm going to print your list

> and try it.

> Sometimes it really is stressful to try to get well

> - hearing so

> much good advice, and not knowing what to do first.

> I have had

> quite a few good days since explant, but so easy to

> get discouraged

> when I'm feeling down. I really would like to have

> a natural doc

> who really knew what to test for and how to treat

> me. The one I was

> going to practiced kinesiology, and I'm just not

> convinced and felt

> like I was throwing a lot of money away, not getting

> well. I like

> the idea of the saliva test - it just seems more

> logical to me.

>

> I have switched to wholesome food, but have not yet

> given up all

> sugar. The family is more difficult to convince and

> they try to

> make me feel like I'm depriving them if I don't buy

> them Oreos, but

> I feel like I'm poisoning them if I do! I really

> liked the article

> you posted on MSG and the addiction that develops

> (although I do

> like and support ).

>

> Back to work,

> Cherie

>

> >

> > Cherie,

> >

> > You're smart not to collect diagnoses! . . . It

> can

> > ruin your insurance! Working with a doc like

> Kenda's

> > is expensive up front, but in the long run it will

> > cost you much, much less since your insurance

> won't be

> > affected.

> >

> > What I'm hearing from you is that you're stressing

> > over all the symptoms you're having . . . Stress

> is

> > every bit as bad as any illness you may have. If

> > you're like virtually all the women who come here,

> > your symptoms will gradually fade away and you'll

> find

> > life is great again!

> >

> > I suggest that you just accept any and all

> symptoms

> > you experience as a temporary situation that you

> WILL

> > move through. Try to put them out of your mind by

> > taking postive action. Nobody can tell you how

> long

> > it's going to take. That's highly dependent on how

> > much you put into your own program. Keep telling

> > yourself " When I cheat, I cheat only myself! "

> >

> > If you have an immediate need, by all means see

> your

> > doctor. Otherwise, experiment with different

> things

> > that may help. If you can't afford supplements,

> you

> > can find alternatives in fresh, wholesome foods. .

> . .

> >

> >

> > Some suggestions:

> >

> > Eating raw, crushed, fresh garlic is one of the

> > cheapest, most effective foods there is.

> >

> > Make your own organic sauerkraut and eat it raw .

> . .

> > a tablespoon several times a day.

> >

> > Avoid sugar like the plague!

> >

> > Avoid processed foods! Make everything for

> yourself!

> >

> > Get " The Maker's Diet " by Rubin and use that as a

> > dietary goal.

> >

> > Find a good yoga tape and start working on

> stretches

> > that will take the pain out of fibromyalgia.

> >

> > Get a book on massage from the library and learn

> how

> > to massage the parts of your body you can reach.

> You

> > can attach devices to the wall to work on back, or

> > hard to reach, muscles.

> >

> > Liver flushes are very inexpensive and very

> effective.

> >

> >

> > Mediation is outstanding.

> >

> > Visualizing yourself as happy, healthy and active

> is

> > extremely effective as well as free!

> >

> > Sweat therapy is great!

> >

> > Espom salt baths will help draw the toxins out of

> your

> > body while putting magnesium in! Magnesium will

> help

> > with muscle pain since 20% of the body's magnesium

> is

> > found in the muscles.

> >

> > Our archives are full of things we've tried and

> found

> > sucessful! . . . What works is highly individual,

> so

> > we can't write a prescription. Even if we could,

> you

> > won't find the answer in a pill!

> >

> > If you'll keep a daily journal describing how you

> feel

> > and what you're doing to get better, you'll begin

> to

> > see what is working and what doesn't. And, when

> you

> > have those inevitable bad days, you'll be able to

> look

> > back and see how far you've come.

> >

> > You're on the right track . . . Your job is to

> stay on

> > track until you get to where you want to go. What

> > you'll get out of all this will will change your

> life

> > for the better from now on!

> >

> > Hugs and prayers,

> >

> > Rogene

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

sis

Natural hormones have less side effects because they are " bio-

identical " . The progesterone is actually good for you as opposed to

the synthetic progestin which is hard on the liver and has many many

side effects. Another benefit of bioidenticals are that they are

generally weaker and they can be tailored more to fit your needs.

The estrogens are very similar to ours as opposed to premarin which

is made from hormones from the urine of horses.

I can't say that they are side effect free however. Anything that

we use can affect our body. You can get too much hormone using

naturals and then would have symptoms of hormone imbalance. That is

why it is important to test your hormones before use and during use.

These kinds of hormones are becoming more popular and more doctors

are using them. I certainly would consider them over synthetic and

probably over herbs that I dont know alot about. I will mention a

herb that I researched--maca--it is supposed to positively affect

all hormone systems and have little side effects. But then don't

they say that about everything? I am going to give a try as

supposedly it affects adrenals and thyroid too. I am going to give

it a few months try.

Hugs Kathy

> > > > >

> > > > > Does anyone have trouble sleeping? I never knew if it was

a

> > > > symptom

> > > > > of my sickness, or maybe just my age, but I go through

> spells

> > of

> > > > not

> > > > > being able to sleep. As soon as I start to doze off, it's

> > like

> > > a

> > > > > jolt of electricity hits me and I am as awake as if it is

> the

> > > > middle

> > > > > of the day. When I go through these times, no amount of

> > > benadryl

> > > > or

> > > > > melatonin works. I end up resorting to a sleeping pill.

I

> am

> > > so

> > > > > afraid of getting addicted to sleeping pills, that I

really

> > > start

> > > > to

> > > > > worry about it. The past few nights have been rough, and

I

> > > think

> > > > I

> > > > > am back into one of those sleepless times, the first time

> > since

> > > > > explant. It seems all my symptoms are back right now,

pain

> > and

> > > > all.

> > > > >

> > > > > I went for my annual Gyn visit today and told my doc all

> about

> > > my

> > > > > explant. I got to feeling so awful in the exam room, my

> head

> > > > > pounding and started sweating all over. (Not nerves). She

> > said

> > > it

> > > > > may be low estrogen, said I may need estrogen when I hit

> > > > menopause,

> > > > > and sent me on my way. I really felt like crying that she

> had

> > > no

> > > > > other help for me NOW, not after menopause! I guess I

> should

> > > have

> > > > > requested more help, but I just felt awful at the time.

As

> I

> > am

> > > > > allergic to Tylenol and all other over-the-counter pain

> meds,

> > I

> > > > > found myself taking a Vicoden for the headache and all

over

> > > pain,

> > > > > which I don't want to get addicted to either. I'm sorry,

> the

> > > pain

> > > > > meds make me ramble. I wish I would feel better enough

not

> to

> > > > need

> > > > > any of it!

> > > > > Thanks guys,

> > > > > Cherie

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Good post rogene!

So true about having to stick to a routine. The holidays killed me

too. I am now ending a 2 day fast. I am hoping it got some of the

toxins out! But I am still thinking about all the no-no's I had

over Christmas---especially chocolate, cookies, lots of snacks,

etc. My sleep is off terribly too, but I know I can get it somewhat

better when I make a decision to go to sleep at the same time

everynight. I virtually stay up late every nite and it is a

terrible habit!! Oh well, I have some new years resolutions to

keep --I am going to redouble efforts to detox and eat right! Happy

New Year.

love, kathy

>

> Cherie,

>

> A sleep disorder goes hand-in-glove with fibromyalgia.

> . . A real chicken and egg situation! . . . And

> Fibromyalgia is VERY common among implanted women. You

> might do a websearch to learn more about FM.

> Understanding it goes a long way to help to manage it.

>

> With FM, the covering of the muscle becomes very taut,

> pulling on the joints. This makes one hurt all over -

> especially if one is not able to be up and about!

>

> The body does it's repair work during deep sleep - so

> if you're not getting deep sleep, you can expect to

> have more pain!

>

> I've always been a person who didn't need much sleep.

> After I got sick with my implants, I reached a point

> where I couldn't sleep! I thought I was coping - but I

> now realise I wasn't coping at all! mentally or

> physically!

>

> I do take a sleep medication. It was prescribed by a

> neurologist whose wife and daughter both have FM. The

> prescription he gave me would allow twice the amount I

> take (15 mg. temazapam nightly), but I've never

> allowed myself to take that much. I may be addicted, I

> don't know. I've gone off it from time to time to see

> if I feel any different . . . After a point, I decide

> I'd rather get a good nights sleep than worry about

> addiction. I have had a couple doctors who tried to

> put me on other medications - but I reacted very

> poorly to those - not to mention they cost many times

> what my medication costs. Most of my doctors, when

> they know that, with medication, I'm able to manage my

> FM to the point of no symptoms, they don't mind

> prescribing it. However, they do not write

> prescriptions so I could take a double dose!

>

> Occasionally, I'll still have trouble getting to sleep

> or staying asleep . . . That's when I resort to a

> number of techniques that help. . . A hot bath, Sleep

> Time Tea, or a very boring book (try concentrating on

> alegbra). Supplementing with Magnesium also helps -

> You will need two parts Calcium to one part magnesium.

> Garden of Life's Living Calcium is great!

>

> Right now, I'm feeling the effects of having gotten

> off my program over the holidays! . . . Not sleeping

> well, muscle pain, anxiety, fatigue, etc. . . As I see

> it, staying well after implants can mean adopting an

> entire program geared to eating right, getting

> sufficient sleep and exercise - as well as managing

> stress and anger! . . . It feels like a never ending

> juggling act!

>

> It's time for you to pamper yourself so your body has

> every chance to recover!

>

> Hugs and prayers,

>

> Rogene

>

[Guest guest]

Cherie

It is so frustrating not to know what our symptoms are from. I have

been on the antibiotic therapy for four years, and there were many

many times I didnt know if I was herxing, relapsing, having a

reaction to the antibiotic, or just a side effect. Very very

frustrating! Alot of getting better is trial and error. And having

alot of faith that we are going to be healed and are going in the

right direction! It is certainly possible that some of your

symptoms could be from the meds you are taking. I have also heard

that a number of women do quite well with antidepressants for

menopausal symptoms. There are many out there beside lexapro. My

sister does very well on effexor. I, myself, react badly to most

meds, including antidepressant. But we are all very different.

What works great for one person doesn't work for someone else or has

bad side effects. As a rule, if you can avoid meds you are better

off, but that doesn't mean there aren't people out there who aren't

helped by them.

As for being diagnosed with any condition like fibromyalgia--DON'T

LET THEM WRITE IT IN YOUR CHART. I was diagnosed with fms twenty

years ago and they wrote it in my chart. AFter my husband died I

wasn't able to get health insurance due to having fms. It made me

so mad. I was on Cobra for three years. When I remarried, my

husband worked for a large company and they just took me on his

insurance. I learned my lesson. Even if they diagnose you with fms

they won't have any help for you. They will offer you pain meds and

sleep meds. So why get a diagnosis? It won't benefit you. Where

are you from? I am from a town of 125,000 and we have at least 2

doctors willing to prescribe bioidenticals. Hopefully you will find

someone. It doesn't have to be an ob/gyn. Look for an osteopath--

they are more openminded. Good luck and I hope your sleep improves

soon!

Hugs, Kathy

--- In , " Cherie " <cheriesut@y...>

wrote:

>

> You are all so right! When all this started, my primary doc

thought

> I had fibromyalgia, but the rheumatologist did not. As it turns

> out, after he was focusing on just one tender point, he never even

> heard me talk about my sleep problems or pain in between my

shoulder

> blades, etc. He was surprised when I reminded him of that. I

don't

> actually want the official diagnosis of FM right now, because I am

> trying to switch to a new health insurance. Health insurance for

my

> family right now is up to 1,050 per month!! Can't keep this up,

> need to find something cheaper. But that's off the subject. I

know

> I need restorative sleep to heal, but sometimes I feel that with

the

> Ambien, at least I am getting some sleep and not lying there

worring

> about sleeping or not. I try reading, and get sleepy, but as soon

> as I start to drift off, something electrical happens in my brain,

> and I awaken - not even to feel sleepy. A few years ago I was on

> Lexapro, which solved all my sleep problems, but I didn't like the

> lack of any sort of emotion and weight gain, so I painfully

> withdrew, not to go back again! I work in the gyn field

> (transcription) so am familiar with all our local docs, and have

not

> heard of one who practices anything other than standard stuff.

But

> the city of Philadelphia is not far, and should be big enough to

> find someone to help. Sis, I will let you know, and same with

you,

> I am willing to drive to find someone to help. If not, I am very

> interested in Kenda's doc.

>

> I was wondering if the symptoms I have been feeling could be a

> reaction from the sleeping pills or even the pain meds that I have

> had to take lately. Yikes, who knows, could it be the meds, FM,

> implants, hormones, something I ate, herxing, -- HEEELLP!!

>

> It really is great to have you guys to share with - there really

is

> no person I know who can really understand this stuff, though my

> husband is really trying! Thanks,

> Cherie

>

>

> --- In , Rogene S <saxony01@y...>

wrote:

> >

> > Cherie,

> >

> > A sleep disorder goes hand-in-glove with fibromyalgia.

> > . . A real chicken and egg situation! . . . And

> > Fibromyalgia is VERY common among implanted women. You

> > might do a websearch to learn more about FM.

> > Understanding it goes a long way to help to manage it.

> >

> > With FM, the covering of the muscle becomes very taut,

> > pulling on the joints. This makes one hurt all over -

> > especially if one is not able to be up and about!

> >

> > The body does it's repair work during deep sleep - so

> > if you're not getting deep sleep, you can expect to

> > have more pain!

> >

> > I've always been a person who didn't need much sleep.

> > After I got sick with my implants, I reached a point

> > where I couldn't sleep! I thought I was coping - but I

> > now realise I wasn't coping at all! mentally or

> > physically!

> >

> > I do take a sleep medication. It was prescribed by a

> > neurologist whose wife and daughter both have FM. The

> > prescription he gave me would allow twice the amount I

> > take (15 mg. temazapam nightly), but I've never

> > allowed myself to take that much. I may be addicted, I

> > don't know. I've gone off it from time to time to see

> > if I feel any different . . . After a point, I decide

> > I'd rather get a good nights sleep than worry about

> > addiction. I have had a couple doctors who tried to

> > put me on other medications - but I reacted very

> > poorly to those - not to mention they cost many times

> > what my medication costs. Most of my doctors, when

> > they know that, with medication, I'm able to manage my

> > FM to the point of no symptoms, they don't mind

> > prescribing it. However, they do not write

> > prescriptions so I could take a double dose!

> >

> > Occasionally, I'll still have trouble getting to sleep

> > or staying asleep . . . That's when I resort to a

> > number of techniques that help. . . A hot bath, Sleep

> > Time Tea, or a very boring book (try concentrating on

> > alegbra). Supplementing with Magnesium also helps -

> > You will need two parts Calcium to one part magnesium.

> > Garden of Life's Living Calcium is great!

> >

> > Right now, I'm feeling the effects of having gotten

> > off my program over the holidays! . . . Not sleeping

> > well, muscle pain, anxiety, fatigue, etc. . . As I see

> > it, staying well after implants can mean adopting an

> > entire program geared to eating right, getting

> > sufficient sleep and exercise - as well as managing

> > stress and anger! . . . It feels like a never ending

> > juggling act!

> >

> > It's time for you to pamper yourself so your body has

> > every chance to recover!

> >

> > Hugs and prayers,

> >

> > Rogene

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Kathy - you are so right about the diagnosis. I was denied

insurance once a few years ago because there was a question of FM -

I was not too smart about it and told them what my doc thought it

could be. I don't know what will happen this time, or whether or

not is in my chart. I was diagnosed by bone scan and CT scan with

seronegative spondyloarthropathy of my SC joint. ????????

You are right with trial and error, and I need to get some more

trial going. I am going to go through and right down everyone's

suggestions and see if I can figure out what to try next.

I haven't heard of antibiotic therapy, but four years sound like a

long time. What is it?

Cherie

> > >

> > > Cherie,

> > >

> > > A sleep disorder goes hand-in-glove with fibromyalgia.

> > > . . A real chicken and egg situation! . . . And

> > > Fibromyalgia is VERY common among implanted women. You

> > > might do a websearch to learn more about FM.

> > > Understanding it goes a long way to help to manage it.

> > >

> > > With FM, the covering of the muscle becomes very taut,

> > > pulling on the joints. This makes one hurt all over -

> > > especially if one is not able to be up and about!

> > >

> > > The body does it's repair work during deep sleep - so

> > > if you're not getting deep sleep, you can expect to

> > > have more pain!

> > >

> > > I've always been a person who didn't need much sleep.

> > > After I got sick with my implants, I reached a point

> > > where I couldn't sleep! I thought I was coping - but I

> > > now realise I wasn't coping at all! mentally or

> > > physically!

> > >

> > > I do take a sleep medication. It was prescribed by a

> > > neurologist whose wife and daughter both have FM. The

> > > prescription he gave me would allow twice the amount I

> > > take (15 mg. temazapam nightly), but I've never

> > > allowed myself to take that much. I may be addicted, I

> > > don't know. I've gone off it from time to time to see

> > > if I feel any different . . . After a point, I decide

> > > I'd rather get a good nights sleep than worry about

> > > addiction. I have had a couple doctors who tried to

> > > put me on other medications - but I reacted very

> > > poorly to those - not to mention they cost many times

> > > what my medication costs. Most of my doctors, when

> > > they know that, with medication, I'm able to manage my

> > > FM to the point of no symptoms, they don't mind

> > > prescribing it. However, they do not write

> > > prescriptions so I could take a double dose!

> > >

> > > Occasionally, I'll still have trouble getting to sleep

> > > or staying asleep . . . That's when I resort to a

> > > number of techniques that help. . . A hot bath, Sleep

> > > Time Tea, or a very boring book (try concentrating on

> > > alegbra). Supplementing with Magnesium also helps -

> > > You will need two parts Calcium to one part magnesium.

> > > Garden of Life's Living Calcium is great!

> > >

> > > Right now, I'm feeling the effects of having gotten

> > > off my program over the holidays! . . . Not sleeping

> > > well, muscle pain, anxiety, fatigue, etc. . . As I see

> > > it, staying well after implants can mean adopting an

> > > entire program geared to eating right, getting

> > > sufficient sleep and exercise - as well as managing

> > > stress and anger! . . . It feels like a never ending

> > > juggling act!

> > >

> > > It's time for you to pamper yourself so your body has

> > > every chance to recover!

> > >

> > > Hugs and prayers,

> > >

> > > Rogene

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

HI Kathy!

I just ended a 4 day fast today, so we were fasting together. : ) I

have the same goals...I also needed to get back on track with my

healthy eating habits after indulging a little over the holidays.

It felt great to fast, and my husband was so proud of me. I know

each fast makes a difference in how well I clean out. I will

probably do some more, because I know there are others who want to

fast with me. I've got a couple fasting buddies already, and I want

to make 2006 a great year for us.

So nice talking to you!

Love,

Patty

--- In , " mikat828 " <mikat828@y...>

wrote:

>

> Good post rogene!

> So true about having to stick to a routine. The holidays killed

me

> too. I am now ending a 2 day fast. I am hoping it got some of

the

> toxins out! But I am still thinking about all the no-no's I had

> over Christmas---especially chocolate, cookies, lots of snacks,

> etc. My sleep is off terribly too, but I know I can get it

somewhat

> better when I make a decision to go to sleep at the same time

> everynight. I virtually stay up late every nite and it is a

> terrible habit!! Oh well, I have some new years resolutions to

> keep --I am going to redouble efforts to detox and eat right!

Happy

> New Year.

> love, kathy

>

[Guest guest]

Kathy,

How did you feel on your fast? Did you do okay?

Patty

>

> >

> > Good post rogene!

> > So true about having to stick to a routine. The holidays killed

> me

> > too. I am now ending a 2 day fast. I am hoping it got some of

> the

> > toxins out! But I am still thinking about all the no-no's I had

> > over Christmas---especially chocolate, cookies, lots of snacks,

> > etc. My sleep is off terribly too, but I know I can get it

> somewhat

> > better when I make a decision to go to sleep at the same time

> > everynight. I virtually stay up late every nite and it is a

> > terrible habit!! Oh well, I have some new years resolutions to

> > keep --I am going to redouble efforts to detox and eat right!

> Happy

> > New Year.

> > love, kathy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi girls - since I always share my rough times, I wanted to tell you

that I slept great last night without a sleeping pill. The only

thing I did different was that I took calcium with magnesium, though

the magnesium was only 100 mg, I think it might have helped. Thanks

Rogene for that info - I did know that, but needed to be reminded. I

have been off pretty much everything because of the herxing, and

need to get started on some essentials again.

If you were looking for an ND, where would you start? Yellow

pages?

Thanks!!!!

Cherie

> > >

> > > Good post rogene!

> > > So true about having to stick to a routine. The holidays

killed

> > me

> > > too. I am now ending a 2 day fast. I am hoping it got some

of

> > the

> > > toxins out! But I am still thinking about all the no-no's I

had

> > > over Christmas---especially chocolate, cookies, lots of

snacks,

> > > etc. My sleep is off terribly too, but I know I can get it

> > somewhat

> > > better when I make a decision to go to sleep at the same time

> > > everynight. I virtually stay up late every nite and it is a

> > > terrible habit!! Oh well, I have some new years resolutions

to

> > > keep --I am going to redouble efforts to detox and eat right!

> > Happy

> > > New Year.

> > > love, kathy

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Cherie,

There are some sources online for finding an ND. Of course, you can

check in the yellow pages, but it is nice to know there are other

sources. Also, as Kathy mentioned, it is helpful to go to your local

health food store and start asking for referrals there. They

usually either have the business cards there, or know by word of

mouth who is good and who is not.

Here are those links for finding help online:

http://www.healthy.net/asp/templates/center.asp?centerid=53

http://www.acam.org/dr_search/

(unfortunately, on the link below they are not listed in any order,

so you have to scroll through the list):

http://www.alternativesforhealing.com/cgi_bin/practitioner-

naturopathy.php?OVRAW=find%20a%20naturopathic%

20doctor & OVKEY=naturopathic%20doctor & OVMTC=advanced

This one is for thyroid doctors, but they can be helpful with all

the endocrinology stuff, and hopefully you may be able to find one

who does bio-identical hormones:

http://thyroid.about.com/cs/doctors/a/topdocs.htm

Hope this helps you find someone!

Love,

Patty

> > > >

> > > > Good post rogene!

> > > > So true about having to stick to a routine. The holidays

> killed

> > > me

> > > > too. I am now ending a 2 day fast. I am hoping it got some

> of

> > > the

> > > > toxins out! But I am still thinking about all the no-no's I

> had

> > > > over Christmas---especially chocolate, cookies, lots of

> snacks,

> > > > etc. My sleep is off terribly too, but I know I can get it

> > > somewhat

> > > > better when I make a decision to go to sleep at the same

time

> > > > everynight. I virtually stay up late every nite and it is a

> > > > terrible habit!! Oh well, I have some new years resolutions

> to

> > > > keep --I am going to redouble efforts to detox and eat

right!

> > > Happy

> > > > New Year.

> > > > love, kathy

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Cherie!

I am so glad that you got some good sleep! Maybe that magnesium is

just the thing you needed!

It is easy to forget how specific supplements help us. I have often

needed to be reminded about how helpful one might be to my

situation. I think we all go through that, especially when we are

staring at a cupboard full of vitamin pill bottles and can't wait to

get rid of them all! I always say, I'm not buying any more until

these are gone! And then I find something else that I can't go

without. I'm buying zinc today, as well as chromium.

I think minerals are extremely important to us as we deal with our

implant issues. I think mineral deficiencies are rampant in this

country because of our poor soils.

Have a great day Cherie!

Love,

Patty

> > > >

> > > > Good post rogene!

> > > > So true about having to stick to a routine. The holidays

> killed

> > > me

> > > > too. I am now ending a 2 day fast. I am hoping it got some

> of

> > > the

> > > > toxins out! But I am still thinking about all the no-no's I

> had

> > > > over Christmas---especially chocolate, cookies, lots of

> snacks,

> > > > etc. My sleep is off terribly too, but I know I can get it

> > > somewhat

> > > > better when I make a decision to go to sleep at the same

time

> > > > everynight. I virtually stay up late every nite and it is a

> > > > terrible habit!! Oh well, I have some new years resolutions

> to

> > > > keep --I am going to redouble efforts to detox and eat

right!

> > > Happy

> > > > New Year.

> > > > love, kathy

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

On that third link, you might have to copy and paste it to make sure

you get all of the address. It's pretty long:

(unfortunately, on the link below they are not listed in any order,

> so you have to scroll through the list):

>

> http://www.alternativesforhealing.com/cgi_bin/practitioner-

> naturopathy.php?OVRAW=find%20a%20naturopathic%

> 20doctor & OVKEY=naturopathic%20doctor & OVMTC=advanced

> > > > >

> > > > > Good post rogene!

> > > > > So true about having to stick to a routine. The holidays

> > killed

> > > > me

> > > > > too. I am now ending a 2 day fast. I am hoping it got

some

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > toxins out! But I am still thinking about all the no-no's

I

> > had

> > > > > over Christmas---especially chocolate, cookies, lots of

> > snacks,

> > > > > etc. My sleep is off terribly too, but I know I can get

it

> > > > somewhat

> > > > > better when I make a decision to go to sleep at the same

> time

> > > > > everynight. I virtually stay up late every nite and it is

a

> > > > > terrible habit!! Oh well, I have some new years

resolutions

> > to

> > > > > keep --I am going to redouble efforts to detox and eat

> right!

> > > > Happy

> > > > > New Year.

> > > > > love, kathy

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I know Patty - my husband was just complaining last night about the

cupboard FULL of supplements!!

> > > > >

> > > > > Good post rogene!

> > > > > So true about having to stick to a routine. The holidays

> > killed

> > > > me

> > > > > too. I am now ending a 2 day fast. I am hoping it got

some

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > toxins out! But I am still thinking about all the no-no's

I

> > had

> > > > > over Christmas---especially chocolate, cookies, lots of

> > snacks,

> > > > > etc. My sleep is off terribly too, but I know I can get

it

> > > > somewhat

> > > > > better when I make a decision to go to sleep at the same

> time

> > > > > everynight. I virtually stay up late every nite and it is

a

> > > > > terrible habit!! Oh well, I have some new years

resolutions

> > to

> > > > > keep --I am going to redouble efforts to detox and eat

> right!

> > > > Happy

> > > > > New Year.

> > > > > love, kathy

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Cupboard full of supplments? . . . LOL . . . Hubby

pointed out all the supplements to me this morning

after I told him I'd just ordered some more!

If the truth be known, the supplements I take cost

less than the medications he does - except insurance

covers most his medication!

Rogene

[Guest guest]

Just a cupboard full? I have a full pharmacy of supplements here. I have

a full cupboard and part of my pantry!

Kenda

> Cupboard full of supplments? . . . LOL . . . Hubby

> pointed out all the supplements to me this morning

> after I told him I'd just ordered some more!

>

> If the truth be known, the supplements I take cost

> less than the medications he does - except insurance

> covers most his medication!

>

> Rogene

>

>

>

>

> Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice given by licensed

> health care professionals. Consult your physician or licensed health care

> professional before commencing any medical treatment.

>

> " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians mislead you.

> Find out what the facts are, and make your own decisions about how to live a

> happy life and how to work for a better world. " - Linus ing, two-time

> Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

>

> See our photos website! Enter " implants " for access at this link:

> http://.shutterfly.com/action/

>

>

[Guest guest]

-

Patty

I felt ok. I actually started on monday night and then tuesday

night I broke it when I got a chai tea with my daughter and then hot

chocolate with some friends. But then the next day I fasted the

whole day and that lasted until the following day until around 2pm.

I was starving and decided to end it. My husband fasted from

tuesday night until thursday night. We have both been trying to eat

much healthier since breaking the fast. I think it has been a

positive experience. The first two times I fasted I felt great the

first day and less great the second day. The last time I fasted

(before this one) I felt pretty bad the whole time. This time I

felt pretty good the whole time but I didn't notice any increase in

energy like I had in the first ones. But at least I didn't feel

worse like I did last time. So all in all, I think it turned out

good. How are you feeling? I would like to fast again. what is

your personal opinion on how many fasts and the optimum length of

time. I don't think I could go four days but I maybe could go

three. My longest has been two and a half days.

Hugs, Kathy

-- In , " glory2glory1401 "

<glory2glory1401@y...> wrote:

>

> Kathy,

> How did you feel on your fast? Did you do okay?

> Patty

>

> >

> > >

> > > Good post rogene!

> > > So true about having to stick to a routine. The holidays

killed

> > me

> > > too. I am now ending a 2 day fast. I am hoping it got some

of

> > the

> > > toxins out! But I am still thinking about all the no-no's I

had

> > > over Christmas---especially chocolate, cookies, lots of

snacks,

> > > etc. My sleep is off terribly too, but I know I can get it

> > somewhat

> > > better when I make a decision to go to sleep at the same time

> > > everynight. I virtually stay up late every nite and it is a

> > > terrible habit!! Oh well, I have some new years resolutions

to

> > > keep --I am going to redouble efforts to detox and eat right!

> > Happy

> > > New Year.

> > > love, kathy

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In school we are studying nutrition and our current module is on the

elimination system. One of the students is currently on a 30 day fast!

She's one week into it and has lost 6 pounds, although she is not doing it

for weight loss. She says that she feels good and really isn't hungry any

more and doesn't notice a loss in energy. She is wondering if she will have

any detox symptoms as the fast progresses. She said she did develop a white

coating on her tongue on day 2 but it was gone within a couple of days.

Amazing, I think I'd starve to death!! I fasted once for two days and it

was plenty long for me. Our book recommends eating light meals for a few

days prior to a fast and a few days once you have completed the fast.

Kenda

> -

> Patty

> I felt ok. I actually started on monday night and then tuesday

> night I broke it when I got a chai tea with my daughter and then hot

> chocolate with some friends. But then the next day I fasted the

> whole day and that lasted until the following day until around 2pm.

> I was starving and decided to end it. My husband fasted from

> tuesday night until thursday night. We have both been trying to eat

> much healthier since breaking the fast. I think it has been a

> positive experience. The first two times I fasted I felt great the

> first day and less great the second day. The last time I fasted

> (before this one) I felt pretty bad the whole time. This time I

> felt pretty good the whole time but I didn't notice any increase in

> energy like I had in the first ones. But at least I didn't feel

> worse like I did last time. So all in all, I think it turned out

> good. How are you feeling? I would like to fast again. what is

> your personal opinion on how many fasts and the optimum length of

> time. I don't think I could go four days but I maybe could go

> three. My longest has been two and a half days.

> Hugs, Kathy

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -- In , " glory2glory1401 "

> <glory2glory1401@y...> wrote:

>>

>> Kathy,

>> How did you feel on your fast? Did you do okay?

>> Patty

>>

>>>

>>>>

>>>> Good post rogene!

>>>> So true about having to stick to a routine. The holidays

> killed

>>> me

>>>> too. I am now ending a 2 day fast. I am hoping it got some

> of

>>> the

>>>> toxins out! But I am still thinking about all the no-no's I

> had

>>>> over Christmas---especially chocolate, cookies, lots of

> snacks,

>>>> etc. My sleep is off terribly too, but I know I can get it

>>> somewhat

>>>> better when I make a decision to go to sleep at the same time

>>>> everynight. I virtually stay up late every nite and it is a

>>>> terrible habit!! Oh well, I have some new years resolutions

> to

>>>> keep --I am going to redouble efforts to detox and eat right!

>>> Happy

>>>> New Year.

>>>> love, kathy

>>>>

>>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice given by licensed

> health care professionals. Consult your physician or licensed health care

> professional before commencing any medical treatment.

>

> " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians mislead you.

> Find out what the facts are, and make your own decisions about how to live a

> happy life and how to work for a better world. " - Linus ing, two-time

> Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

>

> See our photos website! Enter " implants " for access at this link:

> http://.shutterfly.com/action/

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy,

It sounds like you are doing good with your fasts. I am sure you got

some cleaning out done. The hot chocolate and chai tea probably

didn't help much! But I don't think they hurt that bad either. I am

proud of you for getting through as far as you did!

I think the optimum time is 3 days or longer for a really effective

fast. I say this based on some information that Dr. Fuhrman shares

in his book " Fasting and Eating for Health, A Medical Doctors

Program for Conquering Disease. " This book is fascinating to me.

Here is what he says:

" A special adaptation occurs in a fasting state whereby the brain

can fuel itself with ketones instead of glucose. By the third day

of a total fast, the liver starts generating a large quantity of

ketones from the body's fat stores. As the level of ketones rises

in the bloodstream, the brain and other organs begin to use these

ketones as their major fuel, thus greatly diminishing the

utilization of glucose by the body. This significantly limits

muscle wasting. These keto acids are utilized for fuel primarily by

the brain, muscle tissue, and heart.

The production of ketones, called ketosis, develops within 48 hours

in females and 72 hours in males, and muscle wasting at this time

decreases to very low levels. This is known as protein sparing. "

He goes on to state that juice fasts do not allow the body to go

into the protein sparing state because of the presence of the

glucose, and so juice fasts and severely restrictive diets cause us

to lose more lean body tissue and less fatty tissue than do total

fasts.

Since the fat tissue is where toxins like to reside, I think it is

important for us to get to that state of ketosis. At that point in

time, we will have entered a state where we can really get down and

do some deep cleaning and removal of toxins.

I actually have proof of this occuring in my own body! I posted

pictures of this proof on our website (here and on Shutterfly). I

used to get a rash on my breasts by the 3rd day of my fasts. It

never appeared on the 2nd day--only on the 3rd! When I called my

doctor in a panic about it the first time it occurred, he said not

to worry, that it was toxins coming out of my body. It was a good

sign. I guess he was right! (Is it any coincidence that rash was

only on my breasts and the back of my head? I had such bad brain

fog, remember? I don't think that was coincidence at all!)

I decided that I was going to fast regularly until I could do a fast

and not see that rash develop. Every time I fasted, (which was 3 or

more days every 3 or 4 weeks) I saw that rash appear on the 3rd

day. Finally there came a time when there was no rash! That was

when I noticed my healing move off of that plateau I had been on and

kick into faster healing.

So, my personal feeling based on my own experience is that a program

of regular fasting lasting 3 days or more can do alot of good to

help healing tremendously. Of course, there are those who feel that

fasting is too dangerous or unappealing to attempt, and that's

okay. It's not for everybody. But, for me, it worked. I was

convinced. I highly recommend Dr. Fuhrman's book for anyone

interested in getting well.

Of course, I highly recommend that anyone going on a fast of 3 days

or longer be medically supervised also. Especially if drugs are

being taken for symptoms. The presence of drugs is a whole new

ballgame, and one that I am not familiar with.

I am feeling great, (thank you for asking.) I broke my fast with

some onions in broth, and then have had nothing but salads,

vegetables, or fruit since then. I am determined not to eat any

bread, flour or anything else too heavy, at least not for awhile.

Going on a fast has a way of making you want to " eat clean " and be

committed to a healthy way of life, so I am happy to hear you and

your husband have been successful at it!

Let me know when you want to do another fast. I will do one with you

if you'd like. Try to read Dr. Fuhrman's book beforehand, if you

haven't read it yet. Maybe you can pick up a copy at the library.

It has some great information that will greatly motivate you!

Love,

Patty

> > > >

> > > > Good post rogene!

> > > > So true about having to stick to a routine. The holidays

> killed

> > > me

> > > > too. I am now ending a 2 day fast. I am hoping it got some

> of

> > > the

> > > > toxins out! But I am still thinking about all the no-no's I

> had

> > > > over Christmas---especially chocolate, cookies, lots of

> snacks,

> > > > etc. My sleep is off terribly too, but I know I can get it

> > > somewhat

> > > > better when I make a decision to go to sleep at the same

time

> > > > everynight. I virtually stay up late every nite and it is a

> > > > terrible habit!! Oh well, I have some new years resolutions

> to

> > > > keep --I am going to redouble efforts to detox and eat

right!

> > > Happy

> > > > New Year.

> > > > love, kathy

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yikes, 30 days is so long! I don't think I'd ever do that. I once

did a 10 day total fast, and that was a real challenge. I don't

think I ever want to do 10 days again. It was tough. But it wasn't

hunger that made it tough. I didn't have any growling stomach or

anthing like that, and I had tons of energy. What I remember about

it was the constant, horrible cravings for every kind of junk food I

could imagine by the end of that fast. Things I hadn't eaten in

years! Like Burger King Whoppers and Taco Bell Supreme Burritos and

just plain old major junk food of every kind. I loved the energy

and lightness on my feet that I felt, but the cravings for junk food

made me crazy.

I did not indulge after I broke it, by the way!

I also did a 14 day juice fast, and that wasn't so bad, but I did

experience terrible brain fog on it.

Let me know if she develops any symptoms of detoxication. I'll be

curious. I lost 8 lbs in 4 days, but I am quite certain I will gain

a little of it back. I am on a diet now to get back down to my best

weight of 125.

Patty

--- In , Kenda Skaggs <skaggs@c...>

wrote:

>

> In school we are studying nutrition and our current module is on

the

> elimination system. One of the students is currently on a 30 day

fast!

> She's one week into it and has lost 6 pounds, although she is not

doing it

> for weight loss. She says that she feels good and really isn't

hungry any

> more and doesn't notice a loss in energy. She is wondering if she

will have

> any detox symptoms as the fast progresses. She said she did

develop a white

> coating on her tongue on day 2 but it was gone within a couple of

days.

> Amazing, I think I'd starve to death!! I fasted once for two days

and it

> was plenty long for me. Our book recommends eating light meals

for a few

> days prior to a fast and a few days once you have completed the

fast.

>

> Kenda

[Guest guest]

It's funny you mention the terrible cravings! I had forgotten about that, I

had it too on my two-day fast. I never eat fast food and hadn't in many,

many years. All of a sudden I wanted all of it, even a hamburger and I

didn't even eat meat! It was the strangest feeling. After I stopped

fasting the feelings went away.

It will be interesting to see how my classmate does. She has a lot of weight

she wants to lose so weight loss for her isn't a concern, and not the reason

for the fast. I'll let you know how she does.

Kenda

> Yikes, 30 days is so long! I don't think I'd ever do that. I once

> did a 10 day total fast, and that was a real challenge. I don't

> think I ever want to do 10 days again. It was tough. But it wasn't

> hunger that made it tough. I didn't have any growling stomach or

> anthing like that, and I had tons of energy. What I remember about

> it was the constant, horrible cravings for every kind of junk food I

> could imagine by the end of that fast. Things I hadn't eaten in

> years! Like Burger King Whoppers and Taco Bell Supreme Burritos and

> just plain old major junk food of every kind. I loved the energy

> and lightness on my feet that I felt, but the cravings for junk food

> made me crazy.

>

> I did not indulge after I broke it, by the way!

>

> I also did a 14 day juice fast, and that wasn't so bad, but I did

> experience terrible brain fog on it.

>

> Let me know if she develops any symptoms of detoxication. I'll be

> curious. I lost 8 lbs in 4 days, but I am quite certain I will gain

> a little of it back. I am on a diet now to get back down to my best

> weight of 125.

> Patty

>

>

>

>>

>> In school we are studying nutrition and our current module is on

> the

>> elimination system. One of the students is currently on a 30 day

> fast!

>> She's one week into it and has lost 6 pounds, although she is not

> doing it

>> for weight loss. She says that she feels good and really isn't

> hungry any

>> more and doesn't notice a loss in energy. She is wondering if she

> will have

>> any detox symptoms as the fast progresses. She said she did

> develop a white

>> coating on her tongue on day 2 but it was gone within a couple of

> days.

>> Amazing, I think I'd starve to death!! I fasted once for two days

> and it

>> was plenty long for me. Our book recommends eating light meals

> for a few

>> days prior to a fast and a few days once you have completed the

> fast.

>>

>> Kenda

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice given by licensed

> health care professionals. Consult your physician or licensed health care

> professional before commencing any medical treatment.

>

> " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians mislead you.

> Find out what the facts are, and make your own decisions about how to live a

> happy life and how to work for a better world. " - Linus ing, two-time

> Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

>

> See our photos website! Enter " implants " for access at this link:

> http://.shutterfly.com/action/

>

>

[Guest guest]

Patty,

This is exactly how our school book recommends ending and beginning a fast,

with very light broths, fruits and vegetables.

Kenda

>

> I am feeling great, (thank you for asking.) I broke my fast with

> some onions in broth, and then have had nothing but salads,

> vegetables, or fruit since then. I am determined not to eat any

> bread, flour or anything else too heavy, at least not for awhile.

> Going on a fast has a way of making you want to " eat clean " and be

> committed to a healthy way of life, so I am happy to hear you and

> your husband have been successful at it!

>

> Let me know when you want to do another fast. I will do one with you

> if you'd like. Try to read Dr. Fuhrman's book beforehand, if you

> haven't read it yet. Maybe you can pick up a copy at the library.

> It has some great information that will greatly motivate you!

> Love,

> Patty

>

>

>

>>>>>

>>>>> Good post rogene!

>>>>> So true about having to stick to a routine. The holidays

>> killed

>>>> me

>>>>> too. I am now ending a 2 day fast. I am hoping it got some

>> of

>>>> the

>>>>> toxins out! But I am still thinking about all the no-no's I

>> had

>>>>> over Christmas---especially chocolate, cookies, lots of

>> snacks,

>>>>> etc. My sleep is off terribly too, but I know I can get it

>>>> somewhat

>>>>> better when I make a decision to go to sleep at the same

> time

>>>>> everynight. I virtually stay up late every nite and it is a

>>>>> terrible habit!! Oh well, I have some new years resolutions

>> to

>>>>> keep --I am going to redouble efforts to detox and eat

> right!

>>>> Happy

>>>>> New Year.

>>>>> love, kathy

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice given by licensed

> health care professionals. Consult your physician or licensed health care

> professional before commencing any medical treatment.

>

> " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians mislead you.

> Find out what the facts are, and make your own decisions about how to live a

> happy life and how to work for a better world. " - Linus ing, two-time

> Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

>

> See our photos website! Enter " implants " for access at this link:

> http://.shutterfly.com/action/

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi--we have a 4 yr. old son who has had sleep problems for a while now....He gets up often for between 1-6 hours in the middle of the night. He yells, laughs, cries--you name it. We have him on melatonin now which is an over-the-counter product that many people (especially travelers who get jet lag) take to aid sleep. Melatonin bascially helps you fall asleep but doesn't necessarily help one sleep through the night.....

You might want to consider trying it---I would DEFINITELY consult your pediatrician first! But we know many autistic children who have responded well to it.