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Hi

do you or anyone else know what Dr G thinks of ABA?

does he approve? not that i think it is wrong i am in

the process of setting up a home program.

Rifat

--- btobin <btobin1759@...> wrote:

---------------------------------

Thanks ,

I think I will send her a request for info too. I

have had a number of

replys which I have forwarded on to my friend who was

asked by the board for

the info. I find it very interesting that they are

asking for info on the

very issue that we and two other families in town are

fighting the same

board on. We want ABA for our kids in school and the

board is saying no. It

sure will be interesting to see what this leads to.

Barb

Re: ABA

> Hey Barb,

> Here's Marg Spoelstra's contact numbers. I don't

know if you have ever

> spoken with her, but she is an excellent resource.

>

> .........................................

> Margaret Spoelstra

> Executive Director

> Autism Society Ontario

> 1179A King Street West, Suite 004

> Toronto, ON M6K 3C5

> 416-246-9592 x22

> marg@...

> www.autismsociety.on.ca

> Member, ASD-CARC (Autism

> Spectrum Disorders -

> Canadian-American Research Consortium):

> www.autismresearch.ca

>

> >

>

>

>

> Responsibility for the content of this message lies

strictly with

> the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed

by or the

> opinion of the Research Institute.

>

>

>

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Hi Rifat,

Dr. Goldberg prefers Dr. Stanley Greenspan's Floortime technique to Lovaas's

ABA, but my feeling is, parents have to do what works best for their individual

child. My son's new behavior interventionist uses both techniques with him.

Donna

Re: Re: ABA

Hi

do you or anyone else know what Dr G thinks of ABA?

does he approve? not that i think it is wrong i am in

the process of setting up a home program.

Rifat

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> Hi Rifat,

>

> Dr. Goldberg prefers Dr. Stanley Greenspan's Floortime technique to

Lovaas's ABA,

So is that an official position then?

A.C.

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Hi Ri,

I don't think Dr.G is particularly fond of ABA, but then I think his initial

contact was seeing Lovaas first hand, when there was a lot of room for

improvement. I have found it extremely helpful for , but it might not

be for every child. Some may respond better to floortime or other types of

therapies. If it's done properly your daughter can have great results. I

feel that helps heal the child physically and ABA helps to retrain what

the child has lost, kind of like physio for a stroke patient.

Best of luck setting up a program. Did you ever find the ME List?

Re: ABA

>

>

> > Hey Barb,

> > Here's Marg Spoelstra's contact numbers. I don't

> know if you have ever

> > spoken with her, but she is an excellent resource.

> >

> > .........................................

> > Margaret Spoelstra

> > Executive Director

> > Autism Society Ontario

> > 1179A King Street West, Suite 004

> > Toronto, ON M6K 3C5

> > 416-246-9592 x22

> > marg@...

> > www.autismsociety.on.ca

> > Member, ASD-CARC (Autism

> > Spectrum Disorders -

> > Canadian-American Research Consortium):

> > www.autismresearch.ca

> >*************************************************

Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

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>

> Dr. Goldberg prefers Dr. Stanley Greenspan's Floortime technique to

Lovaas's ABA,

So is that an official position then?

>>To my knowledge, there is no " official " position. ABA and Floortime are

not medical issues, they are behavioral ones. Dr. Goldberg has an opinion on

what he feels works best, just like everyone else.

Donna

Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

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No I didnt! but i got alot of info from Marcia.

Here in the Uk it is a nightmare to even fing good

therapist as so much people have not even heard of it.

but we are starting secong week in Feb, and in March

going to the tribunal to try to get Educational

Authority to pay for it, they have NEVER done so in

the past so we will have a fight on our hands but

gotta try it (no pain no gain)

How are you getting on speech etc?

Rifat

--- Doug McCreary <dmccreary@...>

wrote:

---------------------------------

Hi Ri,

I don't think Dr.G is particularly fond of ABA, but

then I think his initial

contact was seeing Lovaas first hand, when there was a

lot of room for

improvement. I have found it extremely helpful for

, but it might not

be for every child. Some may respond better to

floortime or other types of

therapies. If it's done properly your daughter can

have great results. I

feel that helps heal the child physically and ABA

helps to retrain what

the child has lost, kind of like physio for a stroke

patient.

Best of luck setting up a program. Did you ever find

the ME List?

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I've been running my own ABA program for over a year now. While I'm

sure there a qualified therapists in the area to consult (one just

moved to the area recently), I have found that there are enough

resources (books, research articles, etc.) to give us (parents) the

knowledge we need to run a good program (plus I ran out of money to

pay the consultant-lol).

In starting a program, it is a good idea to develop a curriculum.

There are many resources to pull from when starting a curriculum. We

started with Maurice's book mentioned in a couple posts and

then moved to the book A Work in Progress. We also used Teach Me

Language and a number of other resources from the Woodbine House

series and Simon Baron-Cohen books (theory of mind principles). We

also used Hooked On Phonics (the ABA method) to cover reading.

Over the last year we used the ABLLS assessment to develop

programming as well.

All children (including NT children) can benefit from an ABA

program. We incorporate ABA in everything we do (ABA is not just

DTT, it is also direct teaching and incidental teaching). We attempt

to teach our children (and motiviate them) using positive

reinforcement.

Also, we do use some other methods in our children's therapies (e.g.,

GFCF diet, vitamins, music therapy, speech therapy, and occupational

therapy).

Anyway, with all that said, I would recommend ABA to all children on

the spectrum regardless of where they fall on the spectrum. Doing it

yourself is time consuming; however, if you cannot afford a

consultant (and the school won't pay), it may be the only option.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks.

Debbie

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Couldn't agree more...another area/book/resource that is packed with

info is: Individualized Goal Selection Curriculum By: G.

Romancyzk. Ph.D., Lockshin. Ph.D., M.Ed., Matey.

M.Ed. 1996. We also use ABLLs, etc., etc. We started our program

last April and use a consultant as well as trying to be our own

son's best consultant. The knowledge is out there but like anything

else is takes a lot of valuable resources including time. Like many

others have said, line your team with the best you can get and let

the rest of the issues go. There are only two types of problems as

I have been told. The kind you can do something about and the kind

you cannot. For any that missed it and are looking to to as much

ABA on their own that they can while on a waiting list or waiting to

win the lottery check out: http://www.aba4autism.com/ his program

encourages you to do what you learn with your child as you do it and

provides a way for you to get feed-back from Dr. Brown.

>

> I've been running my own ABA program for over a year now. While

I'm

> sure there a qualified therapists in the area to consult (one just

> moved to the area recently), I have found that there are enough

> resources (books, research articles, etc.) to give us (parents)

the

> knowledge we need to run a good program (plus I ran out of money

to

> pay the consultant-lol).

>

> In starting a program, it is a good idea to develop a curriculum.

> There are many resources to pull from when starting a curriculum.

We

> started with Maurice's book mentioned in a couple posts

and

> then moved to the book A Work in Progress. We also used Teach Me

> Language and a number of other resources from the Woodbine House

> series and Simon Baron-Cohen books (theory of mind principles).

We

> also used Hooked On Phonics (the ABA method) to cover reading.

>

> Over the last year we used the ABLLS assessment to develop

> programming as well.

>

> All children (including NT children) can benefit from an ABA

> program. We incorporate ABA in everything we do (ABA is not just

> DTT, it is also direct teaching and incidental teaching). We

attempt

> to teach our children (and motiviate them) using positive

> reinforcement.

>

> Also, we do use some other methods in our children's therapies

(e.g.,

> GFCF diet, vitamins, music therapy, speech therapy, and

occupational

> therapy).

>

> Anyway, with all that said, I would recommend ABA to all children

on

> the spectrum regardless of where they fall on the spectrum. Doing

it

> yourself is time consuming; however, if you cannot afford a

> consultant (and the school won't pay), it may be the only option.

>

> Just my thoughts.

>

> Thanks.

> Debbie

>

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>All children (including NT children) can benefit from an ABA >program. ABA can work on husbands, too! Chris----- Original Message ----- From: ddzlaw Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 6:01 PMSubject: [ ] ABAI've been running my own ABA program for over a year now. While I'm sure there a qualified therapists in the area to consult (one just moved to the area recently), I have found that there are enough resources (books, research articles, etc.) to give us (parents) the knowledge we need to run a good program (plus I ran out of money to pay the consultant-lol).In starting a program, it is a good idea to develop a curriculum. There are many resources to pull from when starting a curriculum. We started with Maurice's book mentioned in a couple posts and then moved to the book A Work in Progress. We also used Teach Me Language and a number of other resources from the Woodbine House series and Simon Baron-Cohen books (theory of mind principles). We also used Hooked On Phonics (the ABA method) to cover reading. Over the last year we used the ABLLS assessment to develop programming as well. All children (including NT children) can benefit from an ABA program. We incorporate ABA in everything we do (ABA is not just DTT, it is also direct teaching and incidental teaching). We attempt to teach our children (and motiviate them) using positive reinforcement.Also, we do use some other methods in our children's therapies (e.g., GFCF diet, vitamins, music therapy, speech therapy, and occupational therapy). Anyway, with all that said, I would recommend ABA to all children on the spectrum regardless of where they fall on the spectrum. Doing it yourself is time consuming; however, if you cannot afford a consultant (and the school won't pay), it may be the only option.Just my thoughtsThanks.Debbie

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I know that ABA can work on husbands, for certainty, like a charm.

----- Original Message -----

From: The Marotta Family

Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 9:35 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] ABA

>All children (including NT children) can benefit from an ABA >program.

ABA can work on husbands, too! Chris

----- Original Message -----

From: ddzlaw

Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 6:01 PM

Subject: [ ] ABA

I've been running my own ABA program for over a year now. While I'm sure there a qualified therapists in the area to consult (one just moved to the area recently), I have found that there are enough resources (books, research articles, etc.) to give us (parents) the knowledge we need to run a good program (plus I ran out of money to pay the consultant-lol).In starting a program, it is a good idea to develop a curriculum. There are many resources to pull from when starting a curriculum. We started with Maurice's book mentioned in a couple posts and then moved to the book A Work in Progress. We also used Teach Me Language and a number of other resources from the Woodbine House series and Simon Baron-Cohen books (theory of mind principles). We also used Hooked On Phonics (the ABA method) to cover reading. Over the last year we used the ABLLS assessment to develop programming as well. All children (including NT children) can benefit from an ABA program. We incorporate ABA in everything we do (ABA is not just DTT, it is also direct teaching and incidental teaching). We attempt to teach our children (and motiviate them) using positive reinforcement.Also, we do use some other methods in our children's therapies (e.g., GFCF diet, vitamins, music therapy, speech therapy, and occupational therapy). Anyway, with all that said, I would recommend ABA to all children on the spectrum regardless of where they fall on the spectrum. Doing it yourself is time consuming; however, if you cannot afford a consultant (and the school won't pay), it may be the only option.Just my thoughtsThanks.Debbie

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In a message dated 5/21/2006 9:35:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, marottafamily@... writes:

>All children (including NT children) can benefit from an ABA >program.

ABA can work on husbands, too! Chris

Some husbands before more slow to learn than others...

Roxanna ô¿ôDon't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.

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state funded ABA programs are rare and more than likely aren't ABA

programs, rather DTT programs which involve data taking.

I would ask where they received their trng for ABA and how they were

certified.

Our local school district tries to pawn off a sad ECI program they have

as 'ABA'.

Unsure aboutthe laws in Canada - you might want to ck out a source

available to parents

in the US http://www.wrightslaw.com

The s are spec ed lawyers and very good at what they do.

Their website has alot of good information. They also have books available

The important thing here in the US is to remember " meaningful documented

progress "

with IDEA and NCLB.

doris

land

Posted by: " Rhoda Boyd " rboyd@...

<mailto:rboyd@...?Subject=Re:%20Off-topic%3A%20ABA%20question>

rjb1192002 <rjb1192002>

Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:14 am (PST)

Is it possible to have a child discharged from a state-funded ABA

program for not progessing fast enough or for falling under the first

percentile for their age on one of the tests psychologists do that I

forget the name of (sorry).

I'm just wondering what criteria would be used in the U.S. Here in

Canada, our program is delivered by the provincial government. They

don't want to provide services for children older than five years old so

they are developing new criteria for discharge from their program, which

includes progressing so well that they don't need the service anymore

(which is every parent's dream) or (more typically) falling under the

first percentile for XXX, as those children usually do not progress as

quickly as others. They have reassessed the five year olds in the last

few months and most of us are hearing the same thing (less than 1st

percentile score). On one test, I was told that they did not include the

gross motor part because most autistic children tend to do well on that

and it artificially inflates their score. Unbelievable!

I find it appalling and I'm just wondering if any of you have heard of

any similar situations in the U.S.

You can e-mail me privately at rboyd@...

<mailto:rboyd%40cyberus.ca> if you wish so this doesn't clog up the list.

Thanks,

Rhoda

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Read "Let me hear your voice" by Maurice for a good understanding of ABA and an inspirational story.

-----Original Message----- From: Loucas Sent: Jan 18, 2007 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: school districts - Parma & Brecksville

Can someone help me understand ABA please, pcrawfo1 <PCrawfo1 > wrote:

Second the vote for Middleburg Early Education Center...our daughter has been there and has been utilizing the autism scholarship and we couldn't be happier. They have done a phenomenal job. The scholarship funds our ABA and covers the schooling. Feel free to email me offlist if you want more info. FYI if you are going to be starting up an ABA program as well, make sure you speak with several parents in the area about consultants. There are good ones and not so good ones up here.

It's here! Your new message!Get new email alerts with the free Toolbar.

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Although I really like Maurice, I found " Let Me Hear Your

Voice " somewhat dramatic (just my opinion). It wasn't until I read

her other books that I got a real sense of ABA.

Some other books I would recommend are the following: Behavioral

Intervention for Young Children With Autism: A Manual for Parents

and Professionals (http://www.amazon.com/Behavioral-Intervention-

Young-Children-Autism/dp/0890796831/sr=8-

1/qid=1169221689/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-3431576-0708019?

ie=UTF8 & s=books), Making a Difference: Behavioral Intervention for

Autism (http://www.amazon.com/Making-Difference-Behavioral-

Intervention-Autism/dp/0890798710/sr=8-

3/qid=1169221689/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/002-3431576-0708019?

ie=UTF8 & s=books), A Work in Progress: Behavior Management Strategies

& A Curriculum for Intensive Behavioral Treatment of Autism

(http://www.amazon.com/Work-Progress-Management-Strategies-

Curriculum/dp/0966526600/sr=8-4/qid=1169221689/ref=pd_bbs_4/002-

3431576-0708019?ie=UTF8 & s=books), Teaching Developmentally Disabled

Children: The Me Book (http://www.amazon.com/Teaching-

Developmentally-Disabled-Children-Book/dp/0936104783/sr=8-

1/qid=1169222070/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-3431576-0708019?

ie=UTF8 & s=books), Overcoming Autism: Finding the Answers,

Strategies, and Hope That Can Transform

(http://www.amazon.com/Overcoming-Autism-Finding-Strategies-

Transform/dp/0143034685/sr=1-1/qid=1169222146/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-

3431576-0708019?ie=UTF8 & s=books), Graduated Applied Behavior

Analysis (this is one of my personal favorites)

http://www.amazon.com/Graduated-Applied-Behavior-Analysis-

Newman/dp/0966852834/sr=1-4/qid=1169222221/ref=sr_1_4/002-3431576-

0708019?ie=UTF8 & s=books), Right from the Start: Behavioral

Intervention for Young Children With Autism : A Guide for Parents

and Professionals (http://www.amazon.com/Right-Start-Behavioral-

Intervention-Professionals/dp/189062702X/sr=1-

9/qid=1169222442/ref=sr_1_9/002-3431576-0708019?ie=UTF8 & s=books).

There is also some good websites. See

http://rsaffran.tripod.com/aba.html,

http://asatonline.org/resources/autismtreatments.htm#applied,

http://www.autismspeaks.org/whattodo/index.php#aba, and

http://www.polyxo.com/aba/.

I have read all of the books listed and have reviewed all of the

websites given. There are many more books and many more websites,

so if you want more information, let me know.

Thanks,

Debbie Z.

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We did ABA with our son (now 13) between the ages of 3-6.5 yrs.

In our personal opinion, next to , it was the 2nd best thing we did

for him.

Why? had alot of negative behavior. He needed to learn. We

needed to learn

how to deal with those behaviors and how to teach him. Our local school

district was

worthless (and still is). We had a wonderful independent consultant

named Debbie Engerran

through the Lovaas Site in Cherry Hill, NJ.

Debbie showed us and our 'staff' how to work with 's behaviors and

extinquish them;

how to break down difficult tasks into more meaningful parts; and how to

teach how

to have fun, and learn, at the same time.

Alot of people, medical personnel as well, believe that ABA is as Lovaas

did it

in his famous 2 part study. It's not - ABA these days is so mixed in

with Floortime,

TEAACH, etc etc.

Debbie, who was good friends with Dr Lovaas, said there was no way he

could ever

duplicate his study.

's ABA program was 7 days a week for 5-6 hrs a day for 2.5 yrs.

Then we entered him into a local elementary school 1/2 days.

We were recommended to ABA by Dr CT Gordon (Silver Spring) who has a son

with Autistic

behavior and is a whiz on the computer. Dr Gordon went to college with

and is good friends

with Dr Landa (KKI).

Dr Gordon said that children who had some language skills at age 3 seem

to do best on ABA.

But that really, anyone at any age would benefit from ABA because it

teaches how to analyze

behavior and break it down.

Doris

land

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Kristy,

We also had very good results with ABA, but over the years I have seen good

ABA programs and then some poorly run ones as well. Good ABA is not

robotic and should involve a lot of play and social interaction. I don't

exactly agree that " nobody should do 40 hours a week " (sorry Marcia. You know

I

love you!). I think if you really want to make a difference and give ABA

a good shot, then you should do as much as you can. I think it really

depends on the child though. If Connor was occupying himself appropriately

(i.e. playing with toys correctly or playing with his sister), then I would

let him continue, but if he was spending time by himself engaging in

self-stimulatory behaviors, then I knew I needed to get back involved. That

said,

I would never spend 40 hours a week using a " drill " format. We did ABA in

his room, in the living room, on the trampoline (my neighbors probably

thought we were crazy when our entire therapy team got on all at once, but

Connor loved it and would do anything to be " bounced " ), at the zoo, while

taking a walk, etc. It really is a way of thinking, and Marcia is correct in

saying that the incidental teaching in between is super important. We would

often mix the two. I bought a year long pass to the zoo and his therapists

would bring a backpack. They might spend 10 minutes or so going over one

of his programs and then tell him he did a great job and go see one of the

exhibits, but the whole time they would be continuing to ask questions

(kind of " sneak " teaching...lol). " Oh what animal is that? What color is the

elephant? What does and elephant say? Is he big or little? Where do you

want to go next? You need to ask me. " , etc. Then it was the same thing on

the car ride home ... " What is that? What do you do at Mc's? " Then

prompting him to just comment on things like " There's the park! " ). I was

blessed with some very creative therapists :-). And Connor got to the

point where he would often ask for them to come over and " play " ..lol. That is

the sign of a good therapist!

Connor really didn't have much in the way of functional language at all

before we started ABA. He wasn't responding to typical parenting and was

having tantrums and head banging, etc. If I had not had the help and advise

of a really good behaviorist, I'm not sure we would have worked all of that

out. Now Connor can say pretty much anything he wants to, although his

speech pattern is sometimes a little " different " (we still have the occasional

backward pronoun, etc). But I remember all too well the days when he was

little and it was so much work for him to attempt to get the word " juice "

out, even with prompting.

Good teaching comes in many forms! Just like different meds work for

different kids, the same goes for methods of teaching. We spent several years

with Dr. G and throughout it all we agreed to disagree about ABA. But it

was working for us, so we stuck with it.

-Sharon

**************Why pay full price? Check out this month's deals on the new

AOL Shopping. (http://shopping.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntinstor00000001)

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Kristy,

What avenues are you using to improve your son's speech?

Joy

---- Kristy Nardini <knardini@...> wrote:

=============

Thanks, Marcia. My son is learning language much better through other

avenues than ABA. Perhaps it is because the ABA the RC funded (we could

definitely not afford a 30- or 40-hour/week program on our own) focused on

specific self-help goals, and language wasn't really one of them.

Kristy

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Marcia

Hinds

Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 5:56 AM

knardini@...;

Subject: ABA

Kristy,

is right life is good ABA and so is good teaching. As far as what

Kristy said:

I think I understand why Dr. G does not like ABA. It does not address the

developmental gaps that were created when our kids were sick during their

early developmental milestones. ABA addresses specific shortcomings, but

does not usually develop dynamic thinking. My son STILL automatically

answers - at first - that he is 5 (he's 7) when asked how old he is because

that is what one of his ABA drills 'trained' him.

That is the way learning starts for our kind of kid. It takes years to

develop language in kids. It starts robotically and then becomes more

natural. Think of our kids learning English as a foreign language. When

you first learn another language it is not fluent nor can you converse

properly in it. But if you keep learning it, eventually it comes. It is

okay if it is programmed at first. Because later it will come more natural.

And much later our kids learn like other kids and you no longer have to

teach them everything they missed.

Marcia

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Sharon,

I love you too. And I miss your funny emails. You explained how good ABA

should be done much better than I did. Can I use that in my book? Anyway,

I'm glad Jerri and Candy gave their input also. Sometimes when you are in

the middle of this thing it is hard to know which way to go. And when

someone like Dr. G who we all respect tells us we shouldn't do ABA or go to

Dr. we listen. But in both these cases I don't agree with him. We

all need to do what works for our children and as their moms we have to

trust our guts.

One of my issues with the whole Autism world and the reason I believe more

kids are not getting better is because many of the experts think their way

is the only way. I wish we could all just get along and do what is best for

kids. More doctors need to be trained so more children will be helped. The

ABA people don't believe in the medical. The medical don't think ABA is a

good idea. And for my kid one wouldn't have worked as well without the

other. After Dr. G got 's immune system more normalized, I had to catch

him up on what he missed. And I did ABA in a very similar way Sharon did.

We did have 10 hours of formal time a week but the rest was in the car or

the grocery cart or swinging at the park. As said before, good ABA is done

in the most natural setting possible and is probably more than 40 hours a

week because it is just good parenting too.

That is one of the things I love about the list. It is just moms talking

about what worked for them. I sure wish I had had you guys when I was doing

this. But the internet wasn't invented yet. Isn't it weird to think

something that has revolutionized our lives is so new?

Marcia

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its called www.miracleflights.com

ABA

Kristy,

is right life is good ABA and so is good teaching. As far as what

Kristy said:

I think I understand why Dr. G does not like ABA. It does not address the

developmental gaps that were created when our kids were sick during their

early developmental milestones. ABA addresses specific shortcomings, but

does not usually develop dynamic thinking. My son STILL automatically

answers - at first - that he is 5 (he's 7) when asked how old he is because

that is what one of his ABA drills 'trained' him.

That is the way learning starts for our kind of kid. It takes years to

develop language in kids. It starts robotically and then becomes more

natural. Think of our kids learning English as a foreign language. When

you first learn another language it is not fluent nor can you converse

properly in it. But if you keep learning it, eventually it comes. It is

okay if it is programmed at first. Because later it will come more natural.

And much later our kids learn like other kids and you no longer have to

teach them everything they missed.

Marcia

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