ABA

[Guest guest]

FIGHT FOR THE ABA

We did TEACCH for 2 1/2 years and made a little progress, then we went to

intensive ( at least 30 hrs.) ABA and my son made more progress in 6 months

that the previous 2 1/2 years. Down side: it's expensive, exhausting, and

consumes your life (at least for the first year or so). Make sure your

husband is as committed as you are or it will strain your marriage

unbelievably. God bless.

[Guest guest]

So Neil, what you are saying is that every child is unique and should be

treated that way? In my area there was a big movement for EVERYONE to have

ABA. Prior to that one mother was going to start a movement for Patterning

but luckily she moved. What benefits one child will not necessarily benefit

another. We need you to remind us of that every once in a while. Kathy R

[Guest guest]

Isn't it strange -

all those unhappy with TEEACH want to do ABA

(all those unhappy with ABA want to do TEEACH)

but really they both have limitations

and one approach rarely helps every child.

Every child is different and his needs/ priorities differ.

And of course it's not just the program

it's whose doing it, in what environment, etc

--

IMO Neil

[Guest guest]

My son's teacher sees this and tries to alter the district mandated TEACCH

program by adding a little ABA and some Greenspan.

Re: ABA

>From: Neil <n.clark@...>

>

>Isn't it strange -

>all those unhappy with TEEACH want to do ABA

>(all those unhappy with ABA want to do TEEACH)

>but really they both have limitations

[Guest guest]

>what do you replace it with?

>I don't want to go from a structured program to nothing....

You're right,

Something is worth more than nothing.

Mind you some parents don't suit ABA.

I suppose we can always blame the therapists.

--

http://members.xoom.com/Neil_S_/

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/4/00 01:22:43 GMT Standard Time, jennie@...

writes:

> I knew she was not who she claimed to be. CIBRA... get real.

> Jennie

I dont know what you are talking about. I have run a free information

service on autism in the UK since 1994, I was the first person in the UK to

gain government funding for ABA. My name is Liz Lucy. I am sad you have this

attitude.

http://autistic-information.virtualave.net

[Guest guest]

At 12:59 AM 1/4/00 -0000, lizanj@... wrote:

>From: lizanj@...

>

>I am about to remove myself from this list, before I do please would you

remember to keep an open mind and visit the CIBRA website, which is at

http://users.1st.net/cibra

>

>good luck to all of you.

>

>Liz.

>

I knew she was not who she claimed to be. CIBRA... get real.

Jennie

[Guest guest]

At 08:25 PM 1/3/00 EST, Lizanj@... wrote:

>From: Lizanj@...

>

> I dont know what you are talking about. I have run a free information

>service on autism in the UK since 1994, I was the first person in the UK to

>gain government funding for ABA. My name is Liz Lucy. I am sad you have this

>attitude.

>http://autistic-information.virtualave.net

>

I am sorry if I overreacted, but what purpose could you possibly have by

writing a slightly negative ABA post once, and then sending this message

with your announcement you are unsubscribing. This is a caring new list for

support and guidance with aspects of making ABA more successful and

rewarding for everyone, most of all the child and you leave which is of

course a personal choice and fine, but leave leaving a message to read the

CIBRA website, a total misrepresentation and abusive site, and it makes me

furious.

Jennie

[Guest guest]

Hi I live on Long Island does anyone know of a trained ABA theorist that will

do this in Setauket Long Island

[Guest guest]

Reg Reynolds

I disagree with part of this: You say " ABA is a branch of psychology in which

you must

earn a degree in to practice ABA. " Not so. In order to practice ABA, you just

have to know ABA. Perhaps one way to acquire that knowledge is to take a degree

in it, but that is not the only way to do so.

From: " Kathy USWEST " <keyharris@...>

Subject: RE: differences in the ABA therapies

.... This is in response to Elise's question about ABA therapies.

Applied behavior analysis is an approach to treatment in which many

therapies fall under. ABA is a branch of psychology in which you must

earn a degree in to practice ABA. Within ABA there are many different

types of therapy DTT and NET are just two of the thousands of

prepackaged and individualized treatment plans using ABA. ...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/14/00 1:15:44 PM Central Daylight Time,

jrlouie@... writes:

<< Example: Ill say do you want this and hold up juice cup and he

will clap, sign more, sign music, touch his nose, etc.. All things he has

learned over the last few months. What are they doing wrong? Why is he not

differentiating between the different responses? Shouldnt they be able to

realize the problem and try something to fix it? At first the lead therapist

said, all the kids do that in the beginning. Well hes had aba since april

and all these hours since June. Id say its not new anymore. Anybody???? >>

I heard Dr. Carbone address this problem last January. He called it

scrolling. He said it was common in sign, but I've also seen it in verbal as

well. I can't address it as eligantly has he but I'll give it a shot. What I

remember is the minute they start to scroll, you stop them, indicate the

correct sign, then expect the correct sign on their own one more time.

As I remember, and I am depending on memory here, scrolling can occur when

the child is not certain of the proper response so he/she uses everything

they have to communicate. That is why the gently stopping them, giving the

correct sign( or verbal) is important. You would do this every time it is

happens. He did emphasize stopping the scrolling right as you see it

starting.

On another note, the phrase " do you want this " ? is a yes/no program. Dr.

Carbone and others I have talked to say they do not implement a yes/no

program in the beginning, They wait until the language is more advanced. So

your child may also be scrolling because of the yes/ no confusion. ( i.e. do

you want this vs what is this).

I hope this is helpful. Again, Dr. Carbone explains this technically. My

explanation is a shadow only of his. much love,kat

[Guest guest]

I would like to add to Kat's post about scrolling. Another reason that you

will see scrolling is that it has been reinforced. The child signs multiple

things, is given the last one and then learns that the response is not one

discrete behavior, but a chain of many. We were instructed to ask what they

want again and then immediately prompt the correct sign. If you are having

difficulty with this, take a step back and increase prompt levels.

I don't think it's common for all kids to go scroll in the beginning of

manding training b/c of the kids, it has more to do with people not teaching

correctly. You get what you reinforce!

Steph

[Guest guest]

Janine:

This sounds exactly like my son Putter's behavior. He did all those things

(except signing for music) and I was really worried. Anything he wanted he

would sign more, say " candy " and do anything else he thought might be

effective. He started doing those things in May. He continued doing them

through most of June and then suddenly in July he quit signing anything and

started talking.

How long has been giving you this combined response (which should be

seen as a hopeful attempt to get what he wants by doing every thing he

knows)? ABA since April doesn't tell me much; Putter has had ABA since

November and none of this cropped up until May/June and the cure wasn't

until a month later. Things move slowly with these kids, I would not give

up hope yet.

One of my biggest problems was that Putter would say " Candy, " and one of his

speech therapists suggested that whenever he said " candy " but wanted

something else, we should give him candy. I think that would have been

effective if it had been any other word but candy! Putter, who wanted a

potato chip, was just thrilled with getting Candy and sat down and said

" Candy " until it was all gone!

I would not assume anything about the length of time it would take to go

through this stage either. For one thing, your little guy is two years

younger than mine, so maybe he will go through this stage slightly slower?

Anyway, I would think he would catch on properly soon.

Salli

> Im hoping someone can help me. I have a 2.8 year old boy receiving aba

services at home. It is given by three different therapist each doing 10

hours a week. He has been getting these hours since june and before that it

was aba in a less strict format and less hours.

>

> My question is this. My son seems to be running thru each of the

things he has learned in non-verbal imitation any time I ask him something.

He knows he has to respond to me with something and hes doing one after the

other searching for the correct response.

>

> Example: Ill say do you want this and hold up juice cup and he

will clap, sign more, sign music, touch his nose, etc.. All things he has

learned over the last few months. What are they doing wrong? Why is he not

differentiating between the different responses? Shouldnt they be able to

realize the problem and try something to fix it? At first the lead

therapist said, all the kids do that in the beginning. Well hes had aba

since april and all these hours since June. Id say its not new anymore.

Anybody????

>

> Janine

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/16/01 7:58:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,

wbtori@... writes:

<< Some states like NJ

provide ABA without the fight. This is one of the issues I'd like to bring

to the attention of the new formed Autism Caucus. Wanda

>>

Just to be clear here, I live in NJ and I had to file a Due Process suit

against my school district 2 consecutive years to get them to pay for my

son's home ABA program. Yes, we have some excellent ABA schools, but in most

cases you have to sue to get your child into one of the private (better)

ones, and most districts still don't want to pay for home ABA hours. That's

usually a battle too.

[Guest guest]

I am a school nurse with a school full of kids that are 18 months to

prekinder age plus a 16 y.o. kid myself. Please list all of the

sources for the computer programs that you think are good. We might be able

to purchase some for the school. I would like to purchase some good ones

for auditory processing problems; ADD and help for problems with math,

reading comprehension and writing and memory problems which appeared three

years ago with the illness for my 16 y.o.

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

ABA was VERY beneficial to our child. I would like

to chime in with other list members in that

alone wouldn't have done it nor... well.. I just don't

think that ABA alone would have helped our child to

get to the point he is at in just two years. [FYI, our

child is not indistinguishable but is in first grade, aidless,

above grade level academics, and no longer " technically'

qualifies for the autism label- however, we still have some

ADHD type issues to work out...]

Here is what we used:

ABA Lovaas style for most cognitive, behavioral things. We

used Lovaas style ABA for speech but .... the lovaas

ABA set us up for some pragmatics issues that I think could

have been avoided had we used the Verbal Behavior

method (aka Carbone McGreevy Partington Sundberg) I

also think his fluency and expressive usage would have been

better - sooner - if we had our language programming done

in this method of ABA. VB is ABA. I highly recommend

the partington book and the ABLLS assessment.

I also found Teach Me Language to be good for teaching

Calendar concepts- but I don't recommend theb ook unless

a child can read.

Socially, several books were very useful:

Teaching Your Child the Language of Social Success by

Duke Marshall. It took the gestures program of Lovaas

and made it a step further. I was highly impressed with

the book and took its concepts and taught them DTT

style. It teaches nonverbal language and how to read and

RESPOND to it.

I CAN PROBLEM SOLVE by Shure. While designed for

classrooms, I found it was useful to uset he lesson by lesson

format and teach it DTT style.

We are currenly using bits and pieces of Solving the

Relationship Puzzle by Gutstein. It is wonderful! You

use ABA principals but you teach the child about

Experience Sharing and how it isn't the " game itself but

the people you are with " that matters. A really great

book.

I also suggest that you contact your local FEAT chapters.

They often have yearly conferences (BTW FEAT of

NC is having a conference on ABA programming-

peer play and reinforcement this month! ). I do wish

that Goldberg and ABA would be a little more supportive

of each other. *sigh* I suggested that our Local

feat have a keynote ABA speaker and one break out

session with a doctor doing biomedicals like Holmes or

Goldberg. I thought there could be a panel of parents who

could answer questions of how they incorporate the

biomedicals into their ABA programming (how can you

tell it is the ABA and not the biomedical or the other

way around...) Unfortunately, they were unreceptive. I thought

that ABA consultants should be VERY aware of

what their families were doing. I also thought that maybe

doctors who haven't done ABA themselves (holmes) could

benefit from watching a GOOD ABA homebased program

on several different levels.

Alas.. I doubt that I can ever get that to happen....

Been kicking around the idea of opening my own

feat in my own state (we don't have one) but having

biomedical speakers as " breakout sessions " in

conferences. Unfortunately, time and money...

rambled there... I also second the idea of getting

a qualified consultant. It is frightening how many bad

consultants are out there. I highly suggest a replication

site, or one that Behavior An. Inc in California suggest

should you decide on VB. I also suggest that you

remember that being trained in ABA doesn't mean that

you know squat about ABA in the treatment of Autism

nor does knowing " all about autism " mean that you

can do ABA.

[Guest guest]

,

I never thought my child would get better because there was so much to do.

Most of the things I did were so I would not have guilt later. Thank God I

did them. One mistake I made was putting my son in a hand and hand program.

In this program the kids were half " normal " and half kids with learning

disabilities. was probably the most inappropriate there. But it was a

mistake, because when he did behave correctly, he did not get an appropriate

response from the kids. Mainstream him. And then do ABA at home. We

started Kutapressin and then I couldn't stick my kid with needles anymore

and had to stop. I sometimes wonder if things would have happened faster if

I had continued.

We were always working at this, even though didn't know we were

working. In the supermarket when he was in the cart we were doing language

and playing word games. After school, weekends and summers were our work

time.

When he became compliant or when I could we moved away from in the chair

stuff and played on the floor. My daughter was one of my best therapists.

She was only 3 years older than him, but she was the one who taught him the

pretend stuff and how to play. She would log in like the other therapists

and I would pay her a dollar an hour. That way she wasn't jealous and part

of the solution. If you don't have other kids, hire someone from the

neighborhood to do it. But sometimes I just had to be mommy and not his

therapist. Sometimes I would take a break and not have anyone come to work

with him.

I had other kids at my house constantly. At least two times a week I would

borrow friends kids for play. At first, I had to play with these kids

because my son ran to the back of the house when they came. But I made my

house the Kool-Aid house where we had Nintendo, a trampoline a treehouse and

anything that was a kid attractor. I had the best treats and these kids

loved to come back just for the attention they got from me. It took years

before he could play alone without me helping things along. But games were

good because they have rules and are predictable. Nintendo and computer are

good because eye contact isn't necessary for the kids to have a good time.

Use what he loves to help you. Call if I can help. Good Luck!!!

The hardest part is to keep talking to them when you get no response and to

keep going. There were many days when I woke up and said I can't do this

anymore. I even had terrible thoughts of taking my son out and going with

him. But I had to be here for my daughter. I know the hell of this

disease. This is the hardest and most important thing you will ever do.

And when your kid is better, I know you will help someone else get better.

Marcia

Re: ABA

> Dear Marcia-

> Thank you so much for your advice and for getting on line and letting

people

> know your child has recovered form autism, it gives us all hope for our

own

> children. My son Spencer is 4 1/2 years old and has been on Dr. G's

> treatmetn for one year. We will be starting Kutapressin in a few weeks.

He

> also attends anA/I program in Michigan, supposedly the best school program

in

> the state. I am told they do a modified aba approach, he has also been

> mainstreamed in regulart preschool for 1 hour per day and is doing well in

> it. My concern is that they are not challenging him enough and just see

his

> autism and not his strengths. HE is now (thanks to Dr. G) a normal kid

with

> severe apraxia, severe social delays and some mildly weird behavior. I

just

> dont know if I should do more after school and on weekends for him, I

think

> he could make better progress if he did. Anyway I am so glad to hear your

> child has recovered and I hope Spencer will be able to do as well socially

> and academically. My hopes are all that keep me going some days.

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone!

During the chat today, I asked Dr Goldberg the following:

Me: " Dr Goldberg, recently the question of ABA came up on the list and

I made the comment that I believed you were critical of ABA. People seemed

upset about the comment but I'm sure that you are not keen on ABA. Can you

confirm. "

His reply:

Dr Goldberg: " The problem is how the term ABA is currently used - as defined

by Lovaas style people I am violently opposed, IF looked upon as variants of

1:1, treating children as children (NOT animal training) then it may have a

place.... Unfortunately ABA has come to mean almost anything out there...

the key is how a therapist works with the child and whether they believe

that child has potential as a person or is limited. "

Chris

In a message dated 11/4/2001 9:09:32 AM Central Standard Time,

angelo@... writes:

> If I'm not mistaken, I believe Dr Goldberg to be quite critical of ABA.

Chris

> No, I believe you are mistaken here. I heard Dr. Goldberg say that even

with

> his treatment, you should keep your therapists as the our children will

still

> need to catch up to their peers. I have never heard him say anything

>critical of ABA.

>tracy

Message: 11

Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:57:32 -0600

From: " kathleen przekwas " <evchk96@...>

Subject: Re: Digest Number 928

Hi,

I disagree, Dr.G has told me on a few occasions that I shouldn't be allowing

anyone to be doing strict drills on my son and that he should always be

treated like a child. He has also said that he thought that very good O.T.,

speech therapy by a good speech pathologist, and Developmental therapy was

all he would recommend. I don't know that he knows all that much about all

of the ABA programs that are out there, because I have heard there are so

many different types, so I really think you have to find out for yourself

what therapies will help your child. KathyP

[Guest guest]

hi, marcia! i just read a couple of the articles you

sent me. i am very worried and in a panic now that

perhaps my son is too old to be significantly helped

by dr. goldberg. he is 11. i wonder if he would

think it is too late to give significant benefit to

him. he is fairly mild in terms of the autistic

characteristics. in fact, his sp. ed. teacher thinks

he is a very sweet boy--not a problem at all. he just

can't learn very well. his lds are significant. i

sat with him tonight doing math and he has troubles

with adding simple numbers. after all of the reading

therapy at lindamood-bell, he still reads at the 2nd

grade level if we are lucky. he just progresses so

slowly with so much intervention. what do you think?

also, what do you think about this? my younger son

did not really talk until 4 or 4 and a half. he was

the one we were really worried about. he is basically

recovered by the grace of God, but i do feel he has

the immune issues. would you also have him eval'd if

this were your child? i am nervous to do them both at

once for some reason. thank you. barb--- Hinds

<Hindssite@...> wrote:

> Barb,

> Of course your son's IQ can't be tested. How can

> you test the IQ of someone

> who has a communications problem. For my son, I

> always knew there was an

> Albert Einstein in there waiting to get out. When I

> had trouble continuing,

> I would play a tape in my head that they thought

> Albert Einstein had Autism.

> (Stories of his early life are very interesting.

> You can tell he was a

> member of our club.) I kept telling myself that my

> child would be brilliant

> like Albert. When that tape got old, I sometimes

> thought of my son as a

> stroke victim that I had to teach everything to,

> stuff that other kids just

> learned. These are just a few of the mind games I

> used on myself to keep

> going when it was so difficult to get up every day

> and keep doing this.

>

> In reality I didn't believe he would never be

> " normal. " Most of the things

> I did were so I would have no guilt and could later

> tell myself I had done

> everything possible for this child.

>

> In the beginning, it was how to tell which medical

> interventions were

> working. How can you tell if medicine is working

> when your child has limited

> verbal ability? He spent too many years not

> speaking, not learning what he

> should, and learning weird behaviors that helped him

> survive this hell. It

> took many years to reteach him. When he was first

> diagnosed, all the

> doctors (except Dr. G) told me he would never be

> okay, have a sense of

> humor, or be able to have empathy for other people's

> feelings. They couldn'

> t have been more wrong.

>

> You asked if we ever took him off of the meds. We

> are just starting now to

> wean him off the antivirals. So far so good.

> Before we started the

> medical interventions, I was afraid to give him

> meds. And now I'm afraid to

> stop them. Dr. G once explained it to me this way,

> when we were arguing

> about the use of Prozac. I said, I don't give my

> child drugs to control his

> behavior. Then Dr. G asked me if my child had

> diabetes would I give him

> insulin? He also said if they don't help, you can

> always stop them. In

> the beginning when I was so frightened of the meds,

> I finally told myself if

> he was going to get better, I had to take some

> risks.

>

> You asked me where I started with the behavior

> modification. First was

> compliance, that issue is not easily resolved with

> our kids. I would pick

> only one behavior to change and ignore the rest. If

> you try to work on too

> many things at once, they just feel like failures.

> He had so many things to

> learn. There is a list of reading materials in the

> stuff I sent. One of the

> books listed is by Maurice and it talks

> about Behavior

> Modification techniques. I would start there. You

> can also hire

> consultants who will fly to your area to train you

> on how to do this. You

> pay the airfare, their expenses and about almost

> $2,000 for a weekend. They

> manage your ABA program, tell you what to teach next

> and give you drills to

> do. When we did this, the health insurance company

> would not pay anything.

> After was better and I had the time, I hired a

> lawyer and the health

> insurance reimbursed us for the consultant fee of

> $2000, but not travel

> expenses. Call me if you need any other questions

> answered.

> Marcia

> (952) 925-9803

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

=====

Barb Katsaros

barbkatsaros@...

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Barb,

I know of two children who are on the protocol who are both in their

mid-teens who have responded well. They are both severe and may never " get

there " , but have made definite improvements. Your son sounds like he has a

lot less far to travel than these two, so hang in there!

I would definately have your younger sons bloodwork checked.

Re: ABA

> hi, marcia! i just read a couple of the articles you

> sent me. i am very worried and in a panic now that

> perhaps my son is too old to be significantly helped

> by dr. goldberg. he is 11. i wonder if he would

> think it is too late to give significant benefit to

> him. he is fairly mild in terms of the autistic

> characteristics. in fact, his sp. ed. teacher thinks

> he is a very sweet boy--not a problem at all. he just

> can't learn very well. his lds are significant. i

> sat with him tonight doing math and he has troubles

> with adding simple numbers. after all of the reading

> therapy at lindamood-bell, he still reads at the 2nd

> grade level if we are lucky. he just progresses so

> slowly with so much intervention. what do you think?

>

>

> also, what do you think about this? my younger son

> did not really talk until 4 or 4 and a half. he was

> the one we were really worried about. he is basically

> recovered by the grace of God, but i do feel he has

> the immune issues. would you also have him eval'd if

> this were your child? i am nervous to do them both at

> once for some reason. thank you. barb--- Hinds

> <Hindssite@...> wrote:

> > Barb,

> > Of course your son's IQ can't be tested. How can

> > you test the IQ of someone

> > who has a communications problem. For my son, I

> > always knew there was an

> > Albert Einstein in there waiting to get out. When I

> > had trouble continuing,

> > I would play a tape in my head that they thought

> > Albert Einstein had Autism.

> > (Stories of his early life are very interesting.

> > You can tell he was a

> > member of our club.) I kept telling myself that my

> > child would be brilliant

> > like Albert. When that tape got old, I sometimes

> > thought of my son as a

> > stroke victim that I had to teach everything to,

> > stuff that other kids just

> > learned. These are just a few of the mind games I

> > used on myself to keep

> > going when it was so difficult to get up every day

> > and keep doing this.

> >

> > In reality I didn't believe he would never be

> > " normal. " Most of the things

> > I did were so I would have no guilt and could later

> > tell myself I had done

> > everything possible for this child.

> >

> > In the beginning, it was how to tell which medical

> > interventions were

> > working. How can you tell if medicine is working

> > when your child has limited

> > verbal ability? He spent too many years not

> > speaking, not learning what he

> > should, and learning weird behaviors that helped him

> > survive this hell. It

> > took many years to reteach him. When he was first

> > diagnosed, all the

> > doctors (except Dr. G) told me he would never be

> > okay, have a sense of

> > humor, or be able to have empathy for other people's

> > feelings. They couldn'

> > t have been more wrong.

> >

> > You asked if we ever took him off of the meds. We

> > are just starting now to

> > wean him off the antivirals. So far so good.

> > Before we started the

> > medical interventions, I was afraid to give him

> > meds. And now I'm afraid to

> > stop them. Dr. G once explained it to me this way,

> > when we were arguing

> > about the use of Prozac. I said, I don't give my

> > child drugs to control his

> > behavior. Then Dr. G asked me if my child had

> > diabetes would I give him

> > insulin? He also said if they don't help, you can

> > always stop them. In

> > the beginning when I was so frightened of the meds,

> > I finally told myself if

> > he was going to get better, I had to take some

> > risks.

> >

> > You asked me where I started with the behavior

> > modification. First was

> > compliance, that issue is not easily resolved with

> > our kids. I would pick

> > only one behavior to change and ignore the rest. If

> > you try to work on too

> > many things at once, they just feel like failures.

> > He had so many things to

> > learn. There is a list of reading materials in the

> > stuff I sent. One of the

> > books listed is by Maurice and it talks

> > about Behavior

> > Modification techniques. I would start there. You

> > can also hire

> > consultants who will fly to your area to train you

> > on how to do this. You

> > pay the airfare, their expenses and about almost

> > $2,000 for a weekend. They

> > manage your ABA program, tell you what to teach next

> > and give you drills to

> > do. When we did this, the health insurance company

> > would not pay anything.

> > After was better and I had the time, I hired a

> > lawyer and the health

> > insurance reimbursed us for the consultant fee of

> > $2000, but not travel

> > expenses. Call me if you need any other questions

> > answered.

> > Marcia

> > (952) 925-9803

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> =====

> Barb Katsaros

> barbkatsaros@...

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Barb,

I agree with . Your family situation sounds similar to mine. We

began treating the youngest nearly 2 years ago because initially he was

so much " worse " . I have now come to realize the eldest (who turned 11

today) is also and will begin the protocol on him next month. The

LD that the eldest has is actually more disturbing and harder to

overcome than the problems in my younger child (who by the way in near

normal now.) If you have the funds, I would not hesitate to treat them

both at the same time. The only reason I waited is because I did not

realize the eldest's problems could be . As my understanding has

grown, I am convinced he too can be helped.

Doug McCreary wrote:

> Hi Barb,

> I know of two children who are on the protocol who are both in their

> mid-teens who have responded well. They are both severe and may never " get

> there " , but have made definite improvements. Your son sounds like he has a

> lot less far to travel than these two, so hang in there!

> I would definately have your younger sons bloodwork checked.

>

> Re: ABA

>

>

> > hi, marcia! i just read a couple of the articles you

> > sent me. i am very worried and in a panic now that

> > perhaps my son is too old to be significantly helped

> > by dr. goldberg. he is 11. i wonder if he would

> > think it is too late to give significant benefit to

> > him. he is fairly mild in terms of the autistic

> > characteristics. in fact, his sp. ed. teacher thinks

> > he is a very sweet boy--not a problem at all. he just

> > can't learn very well. his lds are significant. i

> > sat with him tonight doing math and he has troubles

> > with adding simple numbers. after all of the reading

> > therapy at lindamood-bell, he still reads at the 2nd

> > grade level if we are lucky. he just progresses so

> > slowly with so much intervention. what do you think?

> >

> >

> > also, what do you think about this? my younger son

> > did not really talk until 4 or 4 and a half. he was

> > the one we were really worried about. he is basically

> > recovered by the grace of God, but i do feel he has

> > the immune issues. would you also have him eval'd if

> > this were your child? i am nervous to do them both at

> > once for some reason. thank you. barb--- Hinds

> > <Hindssite@...> wrote:

> > > Barb,

> > > Of course your son's IQ can't be tested. How can

> > > you test the IQ of someone

> > > who has a communications problem. For my son, I

> > > always knew there was an

> > > Albert Einstein in there waiting to get out. When I

> > > had trouble continuing,

> > > I would play a tape in my head that they thought

> > > Albert Einstein had Autism.

> > > (Stories of his early life are very interesting.

> > > You can tell he was a

> > > member of our club.) I kept telling myself that my

> > > child would be brilliant

> > > like Albert. When that tape got old, I sometimes

> > > thought of my son as a

> > > stroke victim that I had to teach everything to,

> > > stuff that other kids just

> > > learned. These are just a few of the mind games I

> > > used on myself to keep

> > > going when it was so difficult to get up every day

> > > and keep doing this.

> > >

> > > In reality I didn't believe he would never be

> > > " normal. " Most of the things

> > > I did were so I would have no guilt and could later

> > > tell myself I had done

> > > everything possible for this child.

> > >

> > > In the beginning, it was how to tell which medical

> > > interventions were

> > > working. How can you tell if medicine is working

> > > when your child has limited

> > > verbal ability? He spent too many years not

> > > speaking, not learning what he

> > > should, and learning weird behaviors that helped him

> > > survive this hell. It

> > > took many years to reteach him. When he was first

> > > diagnosed, all the

> > > doctors (except Dr. G) told me he would never be

> > > okay, have a sense of

> > > humor, or be able to have empathy for other people's

> > > feelings. They couldn'

> > > t have been more wrong.

> > >

> > > You asked if we ever took him off of the meds. We

> > > are just starting now to

> > > wean him off the antivirals. So far so good.

> > > Before we started the

> > > medical interventions, I was afraid to give him

> > > meds. And now I'm afraid to

> > > stop them. Dr. G once explained it to me this way,

> > > when we were arguing

> > > about the use of Prozac. I said, I don't give my

> > > child drugs to control his

> > > behavior. Then Dr. G asked me if my child had

> > > diabetes would I give him

> > > insulin? He also said if they don't help, you can

> > > always stop them. In

> > > the beginning when I was so frightened of the meds,

> > > I finally told myself if

> > > he was going to get better, I had to take some

> > > risks.

> > >

> > > You asked me where I started with the behavior

> > > modification. First was

> > > compliance, that issue is not easily resolved with

> > > our kids. I would pick

> > > only one behavior to change and ignore the rest. If

> > > you try to work on too

> > > many things at once, they just feel like failures.

> > > He had so many things to

> > > learn. There is a list of reading materials in the

> > > stuff I sent. One of the

> > > books listed is by Maurice and it talks

> > > about Behavior

> > > Modification techniques. I would start there. You

> > > can also hire

> > > consultants who will fly to your area to train you

> > > on how to do this. You

> > > pay the airfare, their expenses and about almost

> > > $2,000 for a weekend. They

> > > manage your ABA program, tell you what to teach next

> > > and give you drills to

> > > do. When we did this, the health insurance company

> > > would not pay anything.

> > > After was better and I had the time, I hired a

> > > lawyer and the health

> > > insurance reimbursed us for the consultant fee of

> > > $2000, but not travel

> > > expenses. Call me if you need any other questions

> > > answered.

> > > Marcia

> > > (952) 925-9803

> > >

> >

> >

> > =====

> > Barb Katsaros

> > barbkatsaros@...

>

[Guest guest]

Barb, my younger son (diagnosed-Aspergers) was older when we began

treatment. Actually, we began treatment at age 9 for about six months and I

stupidly decided to stop. When he got much worse we were back to Dr. G

about a year later.

These disorders can have terrible effects on cognition. My younger son had

alot of difficulty learning to read. He finally learned to read after we

bought a T.V. with closed captioning. Although he then was able to read,

getting him to do much reading was about impossible. What I learned was

that reading to him was like what we would experience if reading a different

language. He couldn't form images of what he was reading....now he can.

Last year he read all four of the Harry Potter books. Whenever his OCD

comes back...he loses his ability to do math. Math was something that I had

to teach him by using things that he could see and touch.

My other son became ill in Jr High. He went from an A-B student...to a C-F

student. I thought he was doing better medically by the time he was in High

School...I was wrong. I just couldn't figure out why his grades were so

bad. This was a smart kid. Even though his grades had plummeted by the end

of JH, his teachers still nominated him for the GATES program.

He began treatment right before his senior year. Guess what? After

having to take summer school every year because he was flunking math....he

ends up with an A in math. I'm sure the teachers had a hard time figuring

that one out, LOL.

Cheryl

>From: Barb Katsaros <barbkatsaros@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: ABA

>Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 23:11:12 -0700 (PDT)

>

>hi, marcia! i just read a couple of the articles you

>sent me. i am very worried and in a panic now that

>perhaps my son is too old to be significantly helped

>by dr. goldberg. he is 11. i wonder if he would

>think it is too late to give significant benefit to

>him. he is fairly mild in terms of the autistic

>characteristics. in fact, his sp. ed. teacher thinks

>he is a very sweet boy--not a problem at all. he just

>can't learn very well. his lds are significant. i

>sat with him tonight doing math and he has troubles

>with adding simple numbers. after all of the reading

>therapy at lindamood-bell, he still reads at the 2nd

>grade level if we are lucky. he just progresses so

>slowly with so much intervention. what do you think?

>

>

>also, what do you think about this? my younger son

>did not really talk until 4 or 4 and a half. he was

>the one we were really worried about. he is basically

>recovered by the grace of God, but i do feel he has

>the immune issues. would you also have him eval'd if

>this were your child? i am nervous to do them both at

>once for some reason. thank you. barb--- Hinds

><Hindssite@...> wrote:

> > Barb,

_________________________________________________________________

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

[Guest guest]

hi, cheryl! thanks for your history. it helps to

hear things. your older son sounds like he had rapid

improvement. is that usual? your younger sounds like

he has greatly improved if he can read harry potter.

that's wonderful. that's a pretty high level. yes,

nids must do terrible things to cognition. i just

know my son is capable of so much more than his iq

shows. he also has his neurological ups and downs.

sometimes, he is so much better cognitively and then

other days, has a harder time. barb

--- Cheryl B <clbro66@...> wrote:

> Barb, my younger son (diagnosed-Aspergers) was older

> when we began

> treatment. Actually, we began treatment at age 9

> for about six months and I

> stupidly decided to stop. When he got much worse we

> were back to Dr. G

> about a year later.

>

> These disorders can have terrible effects on

> cognition. My younger son had

> alot of difficulty learning to read. He finally

> learned to read after we

> bought a T.V. with closed captioning. Although he

> then was able to read,

> getting him to do much reading was about impossible.

> What I learned was

> that reading to him was like what we would

> experience if reading a different

> language. He couldn't form images of what he was

> reading....now he can.

> Last year he read all four of the Harry Potter

> books. Whenever his OCD

> comes back...he loses his ability to do math. Math

> was something that I had

> to teach him by using things that he could see and

> touch.

>

> My other son became ill in Jr High. He went from an

> A-B student...to a C-F

> student. I thought he was doing better medically by

> the time he was in High

> School...I was wrong. I just couldn't figure out

> why his grades were so

> bad. This was a smart kid. Even though his grades

> had plummeted by the end

> of JH, his teachers still nominated him for the

> GATES program.

>

> He began treatment right before his senior

> year. Guess what? After

> having to take summer school every year because he

> was flunking math....he

> ends up with an A in math. I'm sure the teachers

> had a hard time figuring

> that one out, LOL.

> Cheryl

>

>

> >From: Barb Katsaros <barbkatsaros@...>

> >Reply-

> >

> >Subject: Re: ABA

> >Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 23:11:12 -0700 (PDT)

> >

> >hi, marcia! i just read a couple of the articles

> you

> >sent me. i am very worried and in a panic now that

> >perhaps my son is too old to be significantly

> helped

> >by dr. goldberg. he is 11. i wonder if he would

> >think it is too late to give significant benefit to

> >him. he is fairly mild in terms of the autistic

> >characteristics. in fact, his sp. ed. teacher

> thinks

> >he is a very sweet boy--not a problem at all. he

> just

> >can't learn very well. his lds are significant. i

> >sat with him tonight doing math and he has troubles

> >with adding simple numbers. after all of the

> reading

> >therapy at lindamood-bell, he still reads at the

> 2nd

> >grade level if we are lucky. he just progresses so

> >slowly with so much intervention. what do you

> think?

> >

> >

> >also, what do you think about this? my younger son

> >did not really talk until 4 or 4 and a half. he

> was

> >the one we were really worried about. he is

> basically

> >recovered by the grace of God, but i do feel he has

> >the immune issues. would you also have him eval'd

> if

> >this were your child? i am nervous to do them both

> at

> >once for some reason. thank you. barb---

> Hinds

> ><Hindssite@...> wrote:

> > > Barb,

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print

> your photos:

> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

>

>

=====

Barb Katsaros

barbkatsaros@...

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hey Barb,

Here's Marg Spoelstra's contact numbers. I don't know if you have ever

spoken with her, but she is an excellent resource.

..........................................

Margaret Spoelstra

Executive Director

Autism Society Ontario

1179A King Street West, Suite 004

Toronto, ON M6K 3C5

416-246-9592 x22

marg@...

www.autismsociety.on.ca

Member, ASD-CARC (Autism

Spectrum Disorders -

Canadian-American Research Consortium):

www.autismresearch.ca

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks ,

I think I will send her a request for info too. I have had a number of

replys which I have forwarded on to my friend who was asked by the board for

the info. I find it very interesting that they are asking for info on the

very issue that we and two other families in town are fighting the same

board on. We want ABA for our kids in school and the board is saying no. It

sure will be interesting to see what this leads to.

Barb

Re: ABA

> Hey Barb,

> Here's Marg Spoelstra's contact numbers. I don't know if you have ever

> spoken with her, but she is an excellent resource.

>

> .........................................

> Margaret Spoelstra

> Executive Director

> Autism Society Ontario

> 1179A King Street West, Suite 004

> Toronto, ON M6K 3C5

> 416-246-9592 x22

> marg@...

> www.autismsociety.on.ca

> Member, ASD-CARC (Autism

> Spectrum Disorders -

> Canadian-American Research Consortium):

> www.autismresearch.ca

>

> >

>

>

>

> Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

> the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

> opinion of the Research Institute.

>

>

>