Enough Already

[Guest guest]

mikecarrie01 wrote:

> Nick! Although, that would be a strong motivation to learn geography

> wouldn't it: " A test will be given at the end of the week. For those of

> you who don't know the 50 states, you will fail. For those of you who

> don't know your own state, you will be taken to a secret island and

> dropped off. You won't know where you are and neither will your

> families. You will have no contact with the outside world and an

> airplane will drop supplies once a month for the rest of your lives. "

>

> I was totally shocked when I heard how ignorant people were about

> geography. I thought, this can't be true, did they give those answers

> as a joke?

>

This is totally ridiculous. Not all people have the same level of

intelligence and comprehension. That is not reason to exile them. Aspies

of all people should know better than to judge someone because of some

external sign. Is this any different than the differences of being

aspie? What if someone said " all aspies should be taken to a secret

island and dropped off. You won't know where you are and neither will

your families. You will have no contact with the outside world and an

airplane will drop supplies once a month for the rest of your lives. "

This would be no different.

Ace

[Guest guest]

nick wrote:

>

>

> My grandparents taught me all the states and their capitals when I was 4

> yrs old. If people are so stupid that they don't know where their state

> is, they can all live together on an island and the military can

> send them cheap junk crap from airplanes. They can all live in one big

> mudhole for all I care.

So just because your grandparents taught you something at 4 years old

you are superior to those who were not taught that. What a convoluted

sense of reality. I think I would pick someone without that knowledge

over someone who so thoroughly rejects someone without knowing the

circumstances.

Ace

[Guest guest]

>

>> " Yeah, right, it happens every day...NOT. I doubt that you can find

one

> instance of a girl disappearing from a cruise ship. Where do you get

> your info? "

Of course it doesn't happen every day. Do your research--it happens.

[Guest guest]

>

> > Nick! Although, that would be a strong motivation to learn

geography

> > wouldn't it: " A test will be given at the end of the week. For

those of

> > you who don't know the 50 states, you will fail. For those of you

who

> > don't know your own state, you will be taken to a secret island

and

> > dropped off. You won't know where you are and neither will your

> > families. You will have no contact with the outside world and an

> > airplane will drop supplies once a month for the rest of your

lives. "

> >

> > I was totally shocked when I heard how ignorant people were about

> > geography. I thought, this can't be true, did they give those

answers

> > as a joke?

> >

>

" This is totally ridiculous. Not all people have the same level of

> intelligence and comprehension. That is not reason to exile them. "

This is a JOKE. Do you really think they'd do something like that or

that I would support it? I understand a lot of Aspies have a hard

time recognizing jokes but I thought it would be easy to see because

it's a far-out idea.

Post something positive, I dare you...

[Guest guest]

> >

> >

> > My grandparents taught me all the states and their capitals when

I was 4

> > yrs old. If people are so stupid that they don't know where their

state

> > is, they can all live together on an island and the military can

> > send them cheap junk crap from airplanes. They can all live in

one big

> > mudhole for all I care.

>

> So just because your grandparents taught you something at 4 years

old

> you are superior to those who were not taught that. What a

convoluted

> sense of reality. I think I would pick someone without that

knowledge

> over someone who so thoroughly rejects someone without knowing the

> circumstances.

>

> Ace

>

Nick probably shouldn't have said that, but do you think you could

find a nicer way to call him on it?

You post a lot of negative comments and all that does is create

negativity on the board and pick fights.

[Guest guest]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8289068/

There's the site. I don't know if anyone else posted it already. I

haven't looked through all the messages yet.

> > If you have

> > daughters you have to be very careful when going on vacation.

Girls are

> > even taken from cruise ships.

>

> Yeah, right, it happens every day...NOT. I doubt that you can find

one

> instance of a girl disappearing from a cruise ship. Where do you

get

> your info?

>

> Interesting title to this thread. There are a million silly

imagined

> unfacts being bandied about. Let's instead take the subject heading

to

> heart. Enough already.

>

> Ace.

>

[Guest guest]

You are right Ace. It is ludicrous to send people away if they don't

know about geography. No, it wouldn't be any different.

>

> > Nick! Although, that would be a strong motivation to learn

geography

> > wouldn't it: " A test will be given at the end of the week. For

those of

> > you who don't know the 50 states, you will fail. For those of you

who

> > don't know your own state, you will be taken to a secret island

and

> > dropped off. You won't know where you are and neither will your

> > families. You will have no contact with the outside world and an

> > airplane will drop supplies once a month for the rest of your

lives. "

> >

> > I was totally shocked when I heard how ignorant people were about

> > geography. I thought, this can't be true, did they give those

answers

> > as a joke?

> >

> This is totally ridiculous. Not all people have the same level of

> intelligence and comprehension. That is not reason to exile them.

Aspies

> of all people should know better than to judge someone because of

some

> external sign. Is this any different than the differences of being

> aspie? What if someone said " all aspies should be taken to a secret

> island and dropped off. You won't know where you are and neither

will

> your families. You will have no contact with the outside world and

an

> airplane will drop supplies once a month for the rest of your

lives. "

> This would be no different.

>

> Ace

>

[Guest guest]

You didn't get my point Ace. Schools are not teaching kids properly.

Kids go in there like it's an institution. There are students who get

bored with the repitition and don't care. Other students can't learn

in the repitition because they don't have a solid grounding in what

is important to know by simple rote memory. I was talking about

people who have influence. Alot of them are given influence without

having any credentials. You send them to a far away place for awhile

and it may just give them a better understanding of how cheap America

is and to stop relying on the big government to think for them.

> >

> >

> > My grandparents taught me all the states and their capitals when

I was 4

> > yrs old. If people are so stupid that they don't know where their

state

> > is, they can all live together on an island and the military can

> > send them cheap junk crap from airplanes. They can all live in

one big

> > mudhole for all I care.

>

> So just because your grandparents taught you something at 4 years

old

> you are superior to those who were not taught that. What a

convoluted

> sense of reality. I think I would pick someone without that

knowledge

> over someone who so thoroughly rejects someone without knowing the

> circumstances.

>

> Ace

>

[Guest guest]

You didn't get my point Ace. Schools are not teaching kids properly.

Kids go in there like it's an institution. There are students who get

bored with the repitition and don't care. Other students can't learn

in the repitition because they don't have a solid grounding in what

is important to know by simple rote memory. I was talking about

people who have influence. Alot of them are given influence without

having any credentials. You send them to a far away place for awhile

and it may just give them a better understanding of how cheap America

is and to stop relying on the big government to think for them.

> >

> >

> > My grandparents taught me all the states and their capitals when

I was 4

> > yrs old. If people are so stupid that they don't know where their

state

> > is, they can all live together on an island and the military can

> > send them cheap junk crap from airplanes. They can all live in

one big

> > mudhole for all I care.

>

> So just because your grandparents taught you something at 4 years

old

> you are superior to those who were not taught that. What a

convoluted

> sense of reality. I think I would pick someone without that

knowledge

> over someone who so thoroughly rejects someone without knowing the

> circumstances.

>

> Ace

>

[Guest guest]

Honestly the No Child Left Behind act is the worst piece of legislation ever passed by our govt. Do you know that schools that continuously do well get punished, funding gets taken away from them, because they can't meet the improvement standards, its difficult to improve by 5% if your over the 5% range, any districts rated 100-96 are punished for not improving by 5% by funding being taken away. If the funding was given to the schools that weren't doing well I could see that but it isn't it goes back into the govt budget and is spent elsewhere, the govt forgot to make provisions for that money. So many things are way over structured in the schools there is very little room left for the poor teachers to make learning fun, so the kids don't want to learn. So the good school districts are getting screwed and the poor school districts are getting privatized. Where does that leave the future of education. In my opinion, in the

toilet. BethEnder <ender@...> wrote: One of the problems with schools today is simpleminded slogan based solutions to complex problems... For example "No Child Left Behind" It's a nice idea but it can't ever happen... No two kid are the same... so what is needed to help one kid excel can harm anothers chances to meet his potential... Since it is not possible to give every kid a custom education schools must leave some kids behind... Limiting the performance of the best and brightest by what the slowest and

most inept are capable of doing is the only way to not leave some kids behind... But to do so is at the expense of the kids that can do better... and will ultimately bring our civilization two it knees not in pray but in subrogation to those that can see the stupidity of the simplemindedness that so many people are buying into today...Let's not bring the world of Kurt Vonnegut's "on Bergeron" into existince.EnderAt 04:10 PM 6/8/2006, you wrote: You didn't get my point Ace. Schools are not teaching kids properly. Kids go in there like it's an institution. There are students who get bored with the repitition and don't care. Other students can't learn in the repitition because they don't have a solid grounding in what is important to know by simple rote memory. I was talking about people who have influence. Alot of them are given influence without having any

credentials. You send them to a far away place for awhile and it may just give them a better understanding of how cheap America is and to stop relying on the big government to think for them. > > > > > > My grandparents taught me all the states and their capitals when I was 4 > > yrs old. If people are so stupid that they don't know where their state > > is, they can all live together on an island and the military can > > send them cheap junk crap from airplanes. They can all live in one big > > mudhole for all I care.> > So just because your grandparents taught you something at 4 years old > you are superior to those who were not taught that. What a convoluted > sense of reality. I think I would pick

someone without that knowledge > over someone who so thoroughly rejects someone without knowing the > circumstances.> > Ace> __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

That's what I meant by " Simple-Minded-Slogan Solutions " ...

Congress goes out and write dumb laws that don't say or do what they were

intended to do... One problem is that so many are lawyers who write to

distort the truth and meaning in such a way that every one well think it

sounds like a good idea...

Actually the world of on Bergeron has some things right about it...

The visible government is selected randomly and never get the chance to

be " power brokers " and the " Technocrats " that keep

the world working without special interests getting in the way of making

the correct choice that most people can't or won't make.

Ender

At 05:25 PM 6/8/2006, you wrote:

Honestly the No Child Left

Behind act is the worst piece of legislation ever passed by our

govt. Do you know that schools that continuously do well get

punished, funding gets taken away from them, because they can't meet the

improvement standards, its difficult to improve by 5% if your over the 5%

range, any districts rated 100-96 are punished for not improving by 5% by

funding being taken away. If the funding was given to the schools

that weren't doing well I could see that but it isn't it goes back into

the govt budget and is spent elsewhere, the govt forgot to make

provisions for that money. So many things are way over structured

in the schools there is very little room left for the poor teachers to

make learning fun, so the kids don't want to learn. So the good

school districts are getting screwed and the poor school districts are

getting privatized. Where does that leave the future of

education. In my opinion, in the toilet.

Beth

Ender <ender@...> wrote:

One of the problems with schools today is simpleminded slogan based

solutions to complex problems... For example " No Child Left

Behind " It's a nice idea but it can't ever happen... No two

kid are the same... so what is needed to help one kid excel can

harm anothers chances to meet his potential... Since it is not possible

to give every kid a custom education schools must leave some kids

behind...

Limiting the performance of the best and brightest by what the

slowest and most inept are capable of doing is the only way to not leave

some kids behind... But to do so is at the expense of the kids that can

do better... and will ultimately bring our civilization two it knees not

in pray but in subrogation to those that can see the stupidity of the

simplemindedness that so many people are buying into today...

Let's not bring the world of Kurt Vonnegut's " on

Bergeron " into existince.

Ender

At 04:10 PM 6/8/2006, you wrote:

You didn't get my point Ace. Schools are not teaching kids properly.

Kids go in there like it's an institution. There are students who get

bored with the repitition and don't care. Other students can't learn

in the repitition because they don't have a solid grounding in what

is important to know by simple rote memory. I was talking about

people who have influence. Alot of them are given influence without

having any credentials. You send them to a far away place for awhile

and it may just give them a better understanding of how cheap America

is and to stop relying on the big government to think for them.

> >

> >

> > My grandparents taught me all the states and their capitals

when

I was 4

> > yrs old. If people are so stupid that they don't know where

their

state

> > is, they can all live together on an island and the

military can

> > send them cheap junk crap from airplanes. They can all live

in

one big

> > mudhole for all I care.

>

> So just because your grandparents taught you something at 4

years

old

> you are superior to those who were not taught that. What a

convoluted

> sense of reality. I think I would pick someone without that

knowledge

> over someone who so thoroughly rejects someone without knowing

the

> circumstances.

>

> Ace

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

That's what I meant by " Simple-Minded-Slogan Solutions " ...

Congress goes out and write dumb laws that don't say or do what they were

intended to do... One problem is that so many are lawyers who write to

distort the truth and meaning in such a way that every one well think it

sounds like a good idea...

Actually the world of on Bergeron has some things right about it...

The visible government is selected randomly and never get the chance to

be " power brokers " and the " Technocrats " that keep

the world working without special interests getting in the way of making

the correct choice that most people can't or won't make.

Ender

At 05:25 PM 6/8/2006, you wrote:

Honestly the No Child Left

Behind act is the worst piece of legislation ever passed by our

govt. Do you know that schools that continuously do well get

punished, funding gets taken away from them, because they can't meet the

improvement standards, its difficult to improve by 5% if your over the 5%

range, any districts rated 100-96 are punished for not improving by 5% by

funding being taken away. If the funding was given to the schools

that weren't doing well I could see that but it isn't it goes back into

the govt budget and is spent elsewhere, the govt forgot to make

provisions for that money. So many things are way over structured

in the schools there is very little room left for the poor teachers to

make learning fun, so the kids don't want to learn. So the good

school districts are getting screwed and the poor school districts are

getting privatized. Where does that leave the future of

education. In my opinion, in the toilet.

Beth

Ender <ender@...> wrote:

One of the problems with schools today is simpleminded slogan based

solutions to complex problems... For example " No Child Left

Behind " It's a nice idea but it can't ever happen... No two

kid are the same... so what is needed to help one kid excel can

harm anothers chances to meet his potential... Since it is not possible

to give every kid a custom education schools must leave some kids

behind...

Limiting the performance of the best and brightest by what the

slowest and most inept are capable of doing is the only way to not leave

some kids behind... But to do so is at the expense of the kids that can

do better... and will ultimately bring our civilization two it knees not

in pray but in subrogation to those that can see the stupidity of the

simplemindedness that so many people are buying into today...

Let's not bring the world of Kurt Vonnegut's " on

Bergeron " into existince.

Ender

At 04:10 PM 6/8/2006, you wrote:

You didn't get my point Ace. Schools are not teaching kids properly.

Kids go in there like it's an institution. There are students who get

bored with the repitition and don't care. Other students can't learn

in the repitition because they don't have a solid grounding in what

is important to know by simple rote memory. I was talking about

people who have influence. Alot of them are given influence without

having any credentials. You send them to a far away place for awhile

and it may just give them a better understanding of how cheap America

is and to stop relying on the big government to think for them.

> >

> >

> > My grandparents taught me all the states and their capitals

when

I was 4

> > yrs old. If people are so stupid that they don't know where

their

state

> > is, they can all live together on an island and the

military can

> > send them cheap junk crap from airplanes. They can all live

in

one big

> > mudhole for all I care.

>

> So just because your grandparents taught you something at 4

years

old

> you are superior to those who were not taught that. What a

convoluted

> sense of reality. I think I would pick someone without that

knowledge

> over someone who so thoroughly rejects someone without knowing

the

> circumstances.

>

> Ace

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

on Bergeron. Love that one.

[Guest guest]

This situation has been taken care of by administration. Thank you for your support. Bethmaurice <megaknee@...> wrote: Do you realise you can belong to without having to receive emails at all. You just go to "edit membership" and there select the option "web only". Then you get no email. You have to go to the group website to see the posts, and you can choose which ones to click on and read.This is what I do, apart from that I've chosen to accept "Special notices" by

email so as not to miss them.>> Excuse me but when i joined up i was hoping for some support for my Aspergers Syndrome not 50 emails a day thank goodness i found out this early how supportive you are!> All my best wishes for your future treeko911xxxxxxxxmyasssssssssssssssssssssssssss> __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I don't know if Beth has told you but, at 4:00 p.m. Trek left with the aid of an admin. It looks as if it has been resolved. I felt like that at first and when I acted nicer she didn't respond and asked one of the admins to take her off personally 10 hours later which meant she or whoever could have been a troll. mikecarrie01 <mikecarrie01@...> wrote: That's what I was going to say. No one is sending you emails personally, every post that is made on the forum goes to your email box unless you turn it off. I was surprised at first, too when I saw 40

emails in my box, but you can see that all the emails are the same as all the posts here. I think Nick felt like you were attacking him for no reason since he didn't send those emails to you.> >> > Excuse me but when i joined up i was hoping for some support for my > Aspergers Syndrome not 50 emails a day thank goodness i found out this > early how supportive you are!> > All my best wishes for your future > treeko911xxxxxxxxmyasssssssssssssssssssssssssss> >> __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Wow. I have to just say a couple of things here. I was also at the hospital at the same time this gentleman was and my experience was totally different than what he has indicated. I am really sorry he had such a hard time and I'm sure he was pretty miserable.

My trip to Mexicali, to Hospital Almater, last week was my 10th visit. I have been in many hospitals, under many physician's care, and have had many procedures and or surgeries. I chose to go across the country to Mexico because the level of care far surpasses any I have seen anywhere else. Again, I am sorry that Mr. Krogman's expereince was so bad. I could understand being upset with a few things but to find fault with every aspect (except one, that being Yolanda) makes me kind of wonder if some of it was simply patient attitude.

Just my two cents worth and I am really not trying to make waves here. I've just never witnessed what is described in this email during any of the 10 visits (and several admissions) to this hospital.

If I can help in anyway, please don't hesitate to ask.

Jenni Currie

DOB 2/23/06

I just had surgery with Dr. Aceves one week ago today. I was sleeved on the 22nd. I honestly don't know why people on the boards write that it's such a great experience.. .it's a HARD few days! Everything they write is pretty accurate as far as the schedule: - You fly into San Diego.- Ernesto picks you up and then drives like a mad-man to Mexicali, he'll actually drive you right to the hospital.- You then go inside and be seated and given a clear vial/cup to pee in. Once you come out of the bathroom, holding your yellowish filled cup (and everyone else being right there to see it), will take it from you and you're on to step 2.- Step 2 is them taking blood samples. The lady that took my blood had no gloves on and had a big syringe that she stuck my left

hand and filled up. Then took that and filled 3 smaller vials. Although she did a great job with only sticking me once to get my blood, it was a quite different than the US with the lack of gloves and treating blood like toxic waste. I didn't see any of the 'red toxic wastebaskets' you see here in the US to discard stuff with blood in or on it.- After having your blood drawn, you'll be taken to get weighed, have an x-ray and an ekg- Then you all get together and meet in a room with Yolanda and she gives you some paperwork to fill out later that night and you fork over the money. Yolanda is fantastic.- After you're done there, Ernesto takes you on a wild 'stop-and-go filled' ride through the streets of Mexico to the hotel. - You'll have some time to relax at the hotel. There's several places to eat that are all part of the hotel. The hotel is actually really nice on the outside, but

our room smelled horribly like smoke and instantly give my wife and I headaches. We tried to explain it to the staff and to get them to spray something in there to make it better...Not sure what they sprayed, but it was worse than the smoke-smell. We decided to get out of there and get something to eat! You can eat anything that night.- At 7:40 that night Dr. Campos came and met with all of us in a conference room at the hotel. He talked about the procedures a little and answered a few questions. Lasted about 40 minutes. He seemed like he was ready to leave, and kind of cut our questions short...but later my wife and I assumed he wanted to get to bed for a long next day.- 7 am the next day Ernesto will pick you up and take you to the hospital and taken to a room.- Then Dr. Aceves (this is the first time I saw him) will meet with everyone in 1 room and talk about what's going to

happen. There were 3 sleeves and a band when I was there. He wouldn't tell us the order or who was going first, you just have to go back to your room and wait for them to come get you. Well, we knew the band was going first, but he wouldn't tell us the order of the sleeves.- Then they wheel you off . . . and . . . then you wake up in the recovery room.- I was very out of it - had a VERY hard time keeping my eyes open. - The rest of the day was pretty rough on me. I had pretty much non-stop dry heaves, and once I threw up a bunch of blood. It was a really bad experience. My wife called in a nurse when I puked all the blood and she said 'it's normal'. Dumped it out, rinsed it in our sink and put the container on a shelf up above the toilet. We weren't given a new one (and the sink where it was rinsed was the sink we were using for brushing our teeth, washing our hands, etc. Didn't seem very

sanitary - but I'm used to the GOOD 'OL USA!- After more dry heaves and passing in and out of consciousness I think the day finally ended.- time to recover. I had my sleeve done on the 22nd and left the hospital on the 25th. On the 24th, I was NOT looking forward to Ernesto and his driving techniques driving me back to the airport the next day. I really didn't feel well enough to do it. After surgery on the 22nd, and all through the 24th, were really hard days for me. I went to sleep on the 24th about 8:40 and woke up about 3:30 am ready to get the heck back into the States. I took a shower (at about 3:45) and turned on the tv afterwards. I guess I didn't give much thought to my wife trying to sleep, I was ready to start the day! I actually felt pretty good the 25th and made the 11 hour trip back to my house with no problems. While in the hospital, we were pretty much left

alone (Dr's didn't come check on us like they did with everyone else writing comments). After my surgery, I only saw Dr. Aceves 3 times, and 2 of those times were in 'passing' while I was out trying to walk around. Dr. Campos came in my room maybe once a day, and a couple times the day before we were to leave. I think there was another Dr. who stopped in once or twice. NOTHING like the 4-5 times per day other people are saying. I felt I had a lot of questions on what was going on with my stomach post-op, but when trying to ask the questions, said it was normal and I'll have to figure it out...GREAT, THANKS! Other times when asking questions to the Dr.'s, I felt they didn't really understand my question and were quick to answer with a 'standard' response and get the heck outta my room. The 2nd night around 8pm I was brushed off by a couple staff members. After being able to get the

start of a bowel movement out, but it being 'stuck' because I was unable to push ... couldn't push because my stomach hurt way too much (from surgery and from dry-heaving so much). I asked for some stool softener so I could get it out. They didn't know what that was, so they were going to check into it with someone else. Then came back and said it was just gas, and it's normal. REAL NICE..... I THINK I KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH MY BODY. I REALLY felt brushed off and upset with the situation. I went to sleep, but got up at 11pm and was finally able to get it out. And no, it wasn't gas.... The language barrier pretty much SUCKS....just know that going into it. Or, if you know fluent Spanish, more power to you - you'll be fine. Yes, they clean the floors a lot. Smells horrible and stinks up your room several times a day. Whether I'd do it again in Mexicali or not, I don't know. I think

Dr. Aceves is pretty knowledgeable and skilled at what he does, but I assume there are other Dr.'s with the same competance/experien ce. My wife would say there's NO WAY she'd want to do it again in Mexicali. I'm just trying to give you the most information I can on how everything went and let you make your own decision on it. As for the surgery itself, I'm glad I'm through with it and am looking forward to getting my life back as a thinner person.

[Guest guest]

Kinda hard to keep quiet when nothing

he says rings true to my experience but I think we do have to allow people who

have not had such a great experience to voice their experience. I kinda think

it is more a case of how certain personalities interpret their experience. Two people

can have the same experience and come away with entirely different expressions

of that experience. It really does us no good to attack people that have had a “bad”

experience. It just creates mistrust in what the rest of us are saying.

The thing I find the most difficult to

buy in this narrative is the “bad” driving of Ernesto. Having been

banded for going on 3 years I have taken many rides with Ernesto and none of

them have been “wild”. They have all, in fact, been tame. That

doesn’t mean he didn’t drive wildly in this instance but it does

make me look at all the other comments in a different light. Again, not

negatively, just through different lenses if you will.

I agree that when researching this journey

I, like many others, was suspect at the fact that there are virtually no negative

comments. A great thing about this group, however, is that you can email individuals

and usually you can call pretty much anyone for a one on one. Like Bipley says,

over and over J, it is incumbent upon EACH person to do their OWN research.

, if you have unanswered

questions you really need to get the answers. This group is one source. Calling

the Drs is another source. If I have ever had a question I have called Nina or any

of the staff and had an answer in short order. Another source you might

consider is the Ask A Dr

section of wlsfacts.com You will get an answer from a practicing Dr and not

necessarily one associated with Dr Aceves. This is a great free source and is

very underutilized at the moment.

you may get flamed, that’s

part of the nature of this type of news group but you should still know that we

are here to help and support you. I hope your experience gets better.

Craig

3-9-06

354/224/200

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Krogman

Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008

9:27 AM

Subject: Enough

already

I'm tired of people telling that she has been

misinformed by

someone telling their experience. I was sleeved on 10/22/08 and did

not post my experience on here because of this very reason: for

getting slammed by everyone who thinks going there is so perfect. I

wanted to tell her about my experience and since it was still fresh

in my head, I gave as much information as possible.

NO, the lady who took my blood WAS NOT wearing gloves. In fact, I

didn't see ONE latex glove while I was there.

NO, I didn't see any toxic red waste baskets (doesn't mean they're

not there, but I didn't notice any). In US hospitals they stick out

like a sore thumb.

YES, blood covered stuff went directly into our trash.

These are my experiences. Don't flame me for telling it like it was.

Below is the exact email I sent of MY EXPERIENCE of my trip to

Mexicali. I

didn't sugar-coat anything like everyone else seems to

do on here.

Flame me as much as you want, but I was only truthful and honest in

what I wrote:

I just had surgery with Dr. Aceves one week ago today. I was sleeved

on the 22nd. I honestly don't know why people on the boards write

that it's such a great experience...it's a HARD few days! Everything

they write is pretty accurate as far as the schedule:

- You fly into San Diego.

- Ernesto picks you up and then drives like a mad-man to Mexicali,

he'll actually drive you right to the hospital.

- You then go inside and be seated and given a clear vial/cup to pee

in. Once you come out of the bathroom, holding your yellowish filled

cup (and everyone else being right there to see it), will take

it from you and you're on to step 2.

- Step 2 is them taking blood samples. The lady that took my blood

had no gloves on and had a big syringe that she stuck my left hand

and filled up. Then took that and filled 3 smaller vials. Although

she did a great job with only sticking me once to get my blood, it

was a quite different than the US

with the lack of gloves and

treating blood like toxic waste. I didn't see any of the 'red toxic

wastebaskets' you see here in the US to discard stuff with blood in

or on it.

- After having your blood drawn, you'll be taken to get weighed, have

an x-ray and an ekg- Then you all get together and meet in a room

with Yolanda and she gives you some paperwork to fill out later that

night and you fork over the money. Yolanda is fantastic.

- After you're done there, Ernesto takes you on a wild 'stop-and-go

filled' ride through the streets of Mexico to the hotel.

- You'll have some time to relax at the hotel. There's several

places to eat that are all part of the hotel. The hotel is actually

really nice on the outside, but our room smelled horribly like smoke

and instantly give my wife and I headaches. We tried to explain it

to the staff and to get them to spray something in there to make it

better...Not sure what they sprayed, but it was worse than the smoke-

smell. We decided to get out of there and get something to eat! You

can eat anything that night.

- At 7:40 that night Dr. Campos came and met with all of us in a

conference room at the hotel. He talked about the procedures a

little and answered a few questions. Lasted about 40 minutes. He

seemed like he was ready to leave, and kind of cut our questions

short...but later my wife and I assumed he wanted to get to bed for a

long next day.

- 7 am the next day Ernesto will pick you up and take you to the

hospital and taken to a room.

- Then Dr. Aceves (this is the first time I saw him) will meet with

everyone in 1 room and talk about what's going to happen. There were

3 sleeves and a band when I was there. He wouldn't tell us the order

or who was going first, you just have to go back to your room and

wait for them to come get you. Well, we knew the band was going

first, but he wouldn't tell us the order of the sleeves.- Then they

wheel you off . . . and . . . then you wake up in the recovery room.

- I was very out of it - had a VERY hard time keeping my eyes open.

- The rest of the day was pretty rough on me. I had pretty much non-

stop dry heaves, and once I threw up a bunch of blood. It was a

really bad experience. My wife called in a nurse when I puked all

the blood and she said 'it's normal'. Dumped it out, rinsed it in

our sink and put the container on a shelf up above the toilet. We

weren't given a new one (and the sink where it was rinsed was the

sink we were using for brushing our teeth, washing our hands, etc.

Didn't seem very sanitary - but I'm used to the GOOD 'OL USA!

- After more dry heaves and passing in and out of consciousness I

think the day finally ended.

- time to recover.

I had my sleeve done on the 22nd and left the hospital on the 25th.

On the 24th, I was NOT looking forward to Ernesto and his driving

techniques driving me back to the airport the next day. I really

didn't feel well enough to do it. After surgery on the 22nd, and all

through the 24th, were really hard days for me.

I went to sleep on the 24th about 8:40 and woke up about 3:30 am

ready to get the heck back into the States. I took a shower (at

about 3:45) and turned on the tv afterwards. I guess I didn't give

much thought to my wife trying to sleep, I was ready to start the

day! I actually felt pretty good the 25th and made the 11 hour trip

back to my house with no problems.

While in the hospital, we were pretty much left alone (Dr's didn't

come check on us like they did with everyone else writing comments).

After my surgery, I only saw Dr. Aceves 3 times, and 2 of those times

were in 'passing' while I was out trying to walk around. Dr. Campos

came in my room maybe once a day, and a couple times the day before

we were to leave. I think there was another Dr. who stopped in once

or twice. NOTHING like the 4-5 times per day other people are

saying.

I felt I had a lot of questions on what was going on with my stomach

post-op, but when trying to ask the questions, said it was normal and

I'll have to figure it out...GREAT, THANKS!

Other times when asking questions to the Dr.'s, I felt they didn't

really understand my question and were quick to answer with

a 'standard' response and get the heck outta my room.

The 2nd night around 8pm I was brushed off by a couple staff

members. After being able to get the start of a bowel movement out,

but it being 'stuck' because I was unable to push ... couldn't push

because my stomach hurt way too much (from surgery and from dry-

heaving so much). I asked for some stool softener so I could get it

out. They didn't know what that was, so they were going to check

into it with someone else. Then came back and said it was just gas,

and it's normal. REAL NICE..... I THINK I KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON

WITH MY BODY. I REALLY felt brushed off and upset with the

situation. I went to sleep, but got up at 11pm and was finally able

to get it out. And no, it wasn't gas....

The language barrier pretty much SUCKS....just know that going into

it. Or, if you know fluent Spanish, more power to you - you'll be

fine.

Yes, they clean the floors a lot. Smells horrible and stinks up your

room several times a day.

Whether I'd do it again in Mexicali

or not, I don't know. I think

Dr. Aceves is pretty knowledgeable and skilled at what he does, but I

assume there are other Dr.'s with the same competance/experience.

My wife would say there's NO WAY she'd want to do it again in

Mexicali. I'm

just trying to give you the most information I can on

how everything went and let you make your own decision on it.

As for the surgery itself, I'm glad I'm through with it and am

looking forward to getting my life back as a thinner person.

[Guest guest]

Hello,

I dont post very much, but I read Mr. Krogmans email, its more like what Jenni had said "Patient Attitude" and about cleaning the floors everyday is a good thing and the smell is a fresh smell not like her in the states where the hospitals are so dingy looking and scared to sit on the seats because a spill on them you dont what it is blood or ??? who knows...I have been banded for over a year and wouldnt change it for anything....I had the best care and I would recommend to anyone....Better then the US thats forsure...Here its all about the money!!!

I just had surgery with Dr. Aceves one week ago today. I was sleeved on the 22nd. I honestly don't know why people on the boards write that it's such a great experience.. .it's a HARD few days! Everything they write is pretty accurate as far as the schedule: - You fly into San Diego.- Ernesto picks you up and then drives like a mad-man to Mexicali, he'll actually drive you right to the hospital.- You then go inside and be seated and given a clear vial/cup to pee in. Once you come out of the bathroom, holding your yellowish filled cup (and everyone else being right there to see it), will take it from you and you're on to step 2.- Step 2 is them taking blood samples. The lady that took my blood had no gloves on and had a big syringe that she stuck my left

hand and filled up. Then took that and filled 3 smaller vials. Although she did a great job with only sticking me once to get my blood, it was a quite different than the US with the lack of gloves and treating blood like toxic waste. I didn't see any of the 'red toxic wastebaskets' you see here in the US to discard stuff with blood in or on it.- After having your blood drawn, you'll be taken to get weighed, have an x-ray and an ekg- Then you all get together and meet in a room with Yolanda and she gives you some paperwork to fill out later that night and you fork over the money. Yolanda is fantastic.- After you're done there, Ernesto takes you on a wild 'stop-and-go filled' ride through the streets of Mexico to the hotel. - You'll have some time to relax at the hotel. There's several places to eat that are all part of the hotel. The hotel is actually really nice on the outside, but

our room smelled horribly like smoke and instantly give my wife and I headaches. We tried to explain it to the staff and to get them to spray something in there to make it better...Not sure what they sprayed, but it was worse than the smoke-smell. We decided to get out of there and get something to eat! You can eat anything that night.- At 7:40 that night Dr. Campos came and met with all of us in a conference room at the hotel. He talked about the procedures a little and answered a few questions. Lasted about 40 minutes. He seemed like he was ready to leave, and kind of cut our questions short...but later my wife and I assumed he wanted to get to bed for a long next day.- 7 am the next day Ernesto will pick you up and take you to the hospital and taken to a room.- Then Dr. Aceves (this is the first time I saw him) will meet with everyone in 1 room and talk about what's going to

happen. There were 3 sleeves and a band when I was there. He wouldn't tell us the order or who was going first, you just have to go back to your room and wait for them to come get you. Well, we knew the band was going first, but he wouldn't tell us the order of the sleeves.- Then they wheel you off . . . and . . . then you wake up in the recovery room.- I was very out of it - had a VERY hard time keeping my eyes open. - The rest of the day was pretty rough on me. I had pretty much non-stop dry heaves, and once I threw up a bunch of blood. It was a really bad experience. My wife called in a nurse when I puked all the blood and she said 'it's normal'. Dumped it out, rinsed it in our sink and put the container on a shelf up above the toilet. We weren't given a new one (and the sink where it was rinsed was the sink we were using for brushing our teeth, washing our hands, etc. Didn't seem very

sanitary - but I'm used to the GOOD 'OL USA!- After more dry heaves and passing in and out of consciousness I think the day finally ended.- time to recover. I had my sleeve done on the 22nd and left the hospital on the 25th. On the 24th, I was NOT looking forward to Ernesto and his driving techniques driving me back to the airport the next day. I really didn't feel well enough to do it. After surgery on the 22nd, and all through the 24th, were really hard days for me. I went to sleep on the 24th about 8:40 and woke up about 3:30 am ready to get the heck back into the States. I took a shower (at about 3:45) and turned on the tv afterwards. I guess I didn't give much thought to my wife trying to sleep, I was ready to start the day! I actually felt pretty good the 25th and made the 11 hour trip back to my house with no problems. While in the hospital, we were pretty much left

alone (Dr's didn't come check on us like they did with everyone else writing comments). After my surgery, I only saw Dr. Aceves 3 times, and 2 of those times were in 'passing' while I was out trying to walk around. Dr. Campos came in my room maybe once a day, and a couple times the day before we were to leave. I think there was another Dr. who stopped in once or twice. NOTHING like the 4-5 times per day other people are saying. I felt I had a lot of questions on what was going on with my stomach post-op, but when trying to ask the questions, said it was normal and I'll have to figure it out...GREAT, THANKS! Other times when asking questions to the Dr.'s, I felt they didn't really understand my question and were quick to answer with a 'standard' response and get the heck outta my room. The 2nd night around 8pm I was brushed off by a couple staff members. After being able to get the

start of a bowel movement out, but it being 'stuck' because I was unable to push ... couldn't push because my stomach hurt way too much (from surgery and from dry-heaving so much). I asked for some stool softener so I could get it out. They didn't know what that was, so they were going to check into it with someone else. Then came back and said it was just gas, and it's normal. REAL NICE..... I THINK I KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH MY BODY. I REALLY felt brushed off and upset with the situation. I went to sleep, but got up at 11pm and was finally able to get it out. And no, it wasn't gas.... The language barrier pretty much SUCKS....just know that going into it. Or, if you know fluent Spanish, more power to you - you'll be fine. Yes, they clean the floors a lot. Smells horrible and stinks up your room several times a day. Whether I'd do it again in Mexicali or not, I don't know. I think

Dr. Aceves is pretty knowledgeable and skilled at what he does, but I assume there are other Dr.'s with the same competance/experien ce. My wife would say there's NO WAY she'd want to do it again in Mexicali. I'm just trying to give you the most information I can on how everything went and let you make your own decision on it. As for the surgery itself, I'm glad I'm through with it and am looking forward to getting my life back as a thinner person.

[Guest guest]

Hi ...

I have to agree. I think that sometimes when patients have surgery they are not at their best.

A few issues. The gloves during a blood draw are to protect the staff,

not the patient. It is the patient's blood that staff are protecting

themselves against during a blood draw, thus the gloves.

The sharps containers are in every room, I've been to Mexicali many

many times for fills when I had a band and twice for surgery. I've

been in OR when my friends had surgery, I've been with four friends

when they had surgery for their entire stay. I think maybe is looking for red waste

baskets and that's not what typical hospitals have in patient rooms,

it's a sharps container that is bolted to the wall of every patient room.... one thing I have to say is that I don't understand why every aspect of your surgery was so negative. I have had surgery there twice and my experience was nothing like what you are talking about. I will tell you that I do not appreciate your telling us we are sugar coating our own experiences. I'm about as blunt as they come (go ahead, find ONE person that doesn't agree with that statement! <g>) and I call 'em as I see 'em. Has anyone here ever once not seen me be blunt and to the point? I am not understanding why you think everyone around you is sugar coating their experiences and only you are being honest.

I'm very sorry that you had such a negative experience and poor care. It is just so very different from our experiences and Dr. Aceves' reputation. I'm actually quite sorry that the only positive you experienced in 4 days was Yolanda. Perhaps you should talk to Dr. Aceves about this so others are not treated as you apparently were.

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 10:12 AM, J Currie <giftedtch@...> wrote:

Wow. I have to just say a couple of things here. I was also at the hospital at the same time this gentleman was and my experience was totally different than what he has indicated. I am really sorry he had such a hard time and I'm sure he was pretty miserable.

My trip to Mexicali, to Hospital Almater, last week was my 10th visit. I have been in many hospitals, under many physician's care, and have had many procedures and or surgeries. I chose to go across the country to Mexico because the level of care far surpasses any I have seen anywhere else. Again, I am sorry that Mr. Krogman's expereince was so bad. I could understand being upset with a few things but to find fault with every aspect (except one, that being Yolanda) makes me kind of wonder if some of it was simply patient attitude.

Just my two cents worth and I am really not trying to make waves here. I've just never witnessed what is described in this email during any of the 10 visits (and several admissions) to this hospital.

If I can help in anyway, please don't hesitate to ask.

Jenni Currie

DOB 2/23/06

I just had surgery with Dr. Aceves one week ago today. I was sleeved on the 22nd. I honestly don't know why people on the boards write

that it's such a great experience.. .it's a HARD few days! Everything they write is pretty accurate as far as the schedule: - You fly into San Diego.- Ernesto picks you up and then drives like a mad-man to Mexicali,

he'll actually drive you right to the hospital.- You then go inside and be seated and given a clear vial/cup to pee in. Once you come out of the bathroom, holding your yellowish filled cup (and everyone else being right there to see it), will take

it from you and you're on to step 2.- Step 2 is them taking blood samples. The lady that took my blood had no gloves on and had a big syringe that she stuck my left

hand and filled up. Then took that and filled 3 smaller vials. Although she did a great job with only sticking me once to get my blood, it was a quite different than the US with the lack of gloves and treating blood like toxic waste. I didn't see any of the 'red toxic

wastebaskets' you see here in the US to discard stuff with blood in or on it.- After having your blood drawn, you'll be taken to get weighed, have an x-ray and an ekg- Then you all get together and meet in a room

with Yolanda and she gives you some paperwork to fill out later that night and you fork over the money. Yolanda is fantastic.- After you're done there, Ernesto takes you on a wild 'stop-and-go filled' ride through the streets of Mexico to the hotel.

- You'll have some time to relax at the hotel. There's several places to eat that are all part of the hotel. The hotel is actually really nice on the outside, but

our room smelled horribly like smoke and instantly give my wife and I headaches. We tried to explain it to the staff and to get them to spray something in there to make it better...Not sure what they sprayed, but it was worse than the smoke-

smell. We decided to get out of there and get something to eat! You can eat anything that night.- At 7:40 that night Dr. Campos came and met with all of us in a conference room at the hotel. He talked about the procedures a

little and answered a few questions. Lasted about 40 minutes. He seemed like he was ready to leave, and kind of cut our questions short...but later my wife and I assumed he wanted to get to bed for a long next day.

- 7 am the next day Ernesto will pick you up and take you to the hospital and taken to a room.- Then Dr. Aceves (this is the first time I saw him) will meet with everyone in 1 room and talk about what's going to

happen. There were 3 sleeves and a band when I was there. He wouldn't tell us the order or who was going first, you just have to go back to your room and wait for them to come get you. Well, we knew the band was going

first, but he wouldn't tell us the order of the sleeves.- Then they wheel you off . . . and . . . then you wake up in the recovery room.- I was very out of it - had a VERY hard time keeping my eyes open.

- The rest of the day was pretty rough on me. I had pretty much non-stop dry heaves, and once I threw up a bunch of blood. It was a really bad experience. My wife called in a nurse when I puked all the blood and she said 'it's normal'. Dumped it out, rinsed it in

our sink and put the container on a shelf up above the toilet. We weren't given a new one (and the sink where it was rinsed was the sink we were using for brushing our teeth, washing our hands, etc. Didn't seem very

sanitary - but I'm used to the GOOD 'OL USA!- After more dry heaves and passing in and out of consciousness I think the day finally ended.- time to recover. I had my sleeve done on the 22nd and left the hospital on the 25th.

On the 24th, I was NOT looking forward to Ernesto and his driving techniques driving me back to the airport the next day. I really didn't feel well enough to do it. After surgery on the 22nd, and all through the 24th, were really hard days for me.

I went to sleep on the 24th about 8:40 and woke up about 3:30 am ready to get the heck back into the States. I took a shower (at about 3:45) and turned on the tv afterwards. I guess I didn't give much thought to my wife trying to sleep, I was ready to start the

day! I actually felt pretty good the 25th and made the 11 hour trip back to my house with no problems. While in the hospital, we were pretty much left

alone (Dr's didn't come check on us like they did with everyone else writing comments). After my surgery, I only saw Dr. Aceves 3 times, and 2 of those times were in 'passing' while I was out trying to walk around. Dr. Campos

came in my room maybe once a day, and a couple times the day before we were to leave. I think there was another Dr. who stopped in once or twice. NOTHING like the 4-5 times per day other people are saying.

I felt I had a lot of questions on what was going on with my stomach post-op, but when trying to ask the questions, said it was normal and I'll have to figure it out...GREAT, THANKS! Other times when asking questions to the Dr.'s, I felt they didn't

really understand my question and were quick to answer with a 'standard' response and get the heck outta my room. The 2nd night around 8pm I was brushed off by a couple staff members. After being able to get the

start of a bowel movement out, but it being 'stuck' because I was unable to push ... couldn't push because my stomach hurt way too much (from surgery and from dry-heaving so much). I asked for some stool softener so I could get it

out. They didn't know what that was, so they were going to check into it with someone else. Then came back and said it was just gas, and it's normal. REAL NICE..... I THINK I KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH MY BODY. I REALLY felt brushed off and upset with the

situation. I went to sleep, but got up at 11pm and was finally able to get it out. And no, it wasn't gas.... The language barrier pretty much SUCKS....just know that going into it. Or, if you know fluent Spanish, more power to you - you'll be

fine. Yes, they clean the floors a lot. Smells horrible and stinks up your room several times a day. Whether I'd do it again in Mexicali or not, I don't know. I think

Dr. Aceves is pretty knowledgeable and skilled at what he does, but I assume there are other Dr.'s with the same competance/experien ce. My wife would say there's NO WAY she'd want to do it again in

Mexicali. I'm just trying to give you the most information I can on how everything went and let you make your own decision on it. As for the surgery itself, I'm glad I'm through with it and am

looking forward to getting my life back as a thinner person.

[Guest guest]

People are saying that I have a bad attitude, but I don't understand

how my stating facts about my trip transfer to me having a bad attitude.

- How does Ernesto driving 90 while passing someone with oncoming

traffic transfer to me as having a bad attitude? This didn't happen

once, but happened for my entire trip down and back.

- How does the fact the hotel smelled like smoke and gave us both

headaches a problem with my attitude? I couldn't change it, I was

just stating a fact.

- How does the fact that the nurse wasn't wearing gloves while taking

my blood mean that I have a bad attitude? I was just making a

statement of what I noticed and then get attacked and called a liar on

here.

- I never said anything about sharps containers. I said I didn't see

any toxic wastebaskets for blood - meaning all of my blood covered

items went directly into my trash...and why does this fact mean I have

a bad attitude?

- Yeah, I felt like crap for 3 days, but you can ask others that were

there I was always friendly and most of the time had a smile on my

face...how is this a bad attitude?

I never even said I had a bad experience. Maybe the people reading

what I went through in their owns minds would have labeled it a 'bad'

experience, but I said nothing of the sort. I was just tell 'my

experience'.

I've been emailed by people who agreed with almost everything I wrote,

so I know I'm not the only one here. Everyone else is just afraid of

what people will say, and figure it's not worth the effort. The

feeling is, if you don't have anything but perfection to say, don't

say anything at all...or else.

All in all, I'm glad I went and I'm very happy to now be sleeved.

>

> I just had surgery with Dr. Aceves one week ago today. I was sleeved

> on the 22nd. I honestly don't know why people on the boards write

> that it's such a great experience.. .it's a HARD few days! Everything

> they write is pretty accurate as far as the schedule:

>

> - You fly into San Diego.

>

> - Ernesto picks you up and then drives like a mad-man to Mexicali,

> he'll actually drive you right to the hospital.

>

> - You then go inside and be seated and given a clear vial/cup to pee

> in. Once you come out of the bathroom, holding your yellowish filled

> cup (and everyone else being right there to see it), will take

> it from you and you're on to step 2.

>

> - Step 2 is them taking blood samples. The lady that took my blood

> had no gloves on and had a big syringe that she stuck my left hand

> and filled up. Then took that and filled 3 smaller vials. Although

> she did a great job with only sticking me once to get my blood, it

> was a quite different than the US with the lack of gloves and

> treating blood like toxic waste. I didn't see any of the 'red toxic

> wastebaskets' you see here in the US to discard stuff with blood in

> or on it.

>

> - After having your blood drawn, you'll be taken to get weighed, have

> an x-ray and an ekg- Then you all get together and meet in a room

> with Yolanda and she gives you some paperwork to fill out later that

> night and you fork over the money. Yolanda is fantastic.

>

> - After you're done there, Ernesto takes you on a wild 'stop-and-go

> filled' ride through the streets of Mexico to the hotel.

>

> - You'll have some time to relax at the hotel. There's several

> places to eat that are all part of the hotel. The hotel is actually

> really nice on the outside, but our room smelled horribly like smoke

> and instantly give my wife and I headaches. We tried to explain it

> to the staff and to get them to spray something in there to make it

> better...Not sure what they sprayed, but it was worse than the smoke-

> smell. We decided to get out of there and get something to eat! You

> can eat anything that night.

>

> - At 7:40 that night Dr. Campos came and met with all of us in a

> conference room at the hotel. He talked about the procedures a

> little and answered a few questions. Lasted about 40 minutes. He

> seemed like he was ready to leave, and kind of cut our questions

> short...but later my wife and I assumed he wanted to get to bed for a

> long next day.

>

> - 7 am the next day Ernesto will pick you up and take you to the

> hospital and taken to a room.

>

> - Then Dr. Aceves (this is the first time I saw him) will meet with

> everyone in 1 room and talk about what's going to happen. There were

> 3 sleeves and a band when I was there. He wouldn't tell us the order

> or who was going first, you just have to go back to your room and

> wait for them to come get you. Well, we knew the band was going

> first, but he wouldn't tell us the order of the sleeves.- Then they

> wheel you off . . . and . . . then you wake up in the recovery room.

>

> - I was very out of it - had a VERY hard time keeping my eyes open.

>

> - The rest of the day was pretty rough on me. I had pretty much non-

> stop dry heaves, and once I threw up a bunch of blood. It was a

> really bad experience. My wife called in a nurse when I puked all

> the blood and she said 'it's normal'. Dumped it out, rinsed it in

> our sink and put the container on a shelf up above the toilet. We

> weren't given a new one (and the sink where it was rinsed was the

> sink we were using for brushing our teeth, washing our hands, etc.

> Didn't seem very sanitary - but I'm used to the GOOD 'OL USA!

>

> - After more dry heaves and passing in and out of consciousness I

> think the day finally ended.

>

> - time to recover.

>

> I had my sleeve done on the 22nd and left the hospital on the 25th.

> On the 24th, I was NOT looking forward to Ernesto and his driving

> techniques driving me back to the airport the next day. I really

> didn't feel well enough to do it. After surgery on the 22nd, and all

> through the 24th, were really hard days for me.

>

> I went to sleep on the 24th about 8:40 and woke up about 3:30 am

> ready to get the heck back into the States. I took a shower (at

> about 3:45) and turned on the tv afterwards. I guess I didn't give

> much thought to my wife trying to sleep, I was ready to start the

> day! I actually felt pretty good the 25th and made the 11 hour trip

> back to my house with no problems.

>

> While in the hospital, we were pretty much left alone (Dr's didn't

> come check on us like they did with everyone else writing comments).

> After my surgery, I only saw Dr. Aceves 3 times, and 2 of those times

> were in 'passing' while I was out trying to walk around. Dr. Campos

> came in my room maybe once a day, and a couple times the day before

> we were to leave. I think there was another Dr. who stopped in once

> or twice. NOTHING like the 4-5 times per day other people are

> saying.

>

> I felt I had a lot of questions on what was going on with my stomach

> post-op, but when trying to ask the questions, said it was normal and

> I'll have to figure it out...GREAT, THANKS!

>

> Other times when asking questions to the Dr.'s, I felt they didn't

> really understand my question and were quick to answer with

> a 'standard' response and get the heck outta my room.

>

> The 2nd night around 8pm I was brushed off by a couple staff

> members. After being able to get the start of a bowel movement out,

> but it being 'stuck' because I was unable to push ... couldn't push

> because my stomach hurt way too much (from surgery and from dry-

> heaving so much). I asked for some stool softener so I could get it

> out. They didn't know what that was, so they were going to check

> into it with someone else. Then came back and said it was just gas,

> and it's normal. REAL NICE..... I THINK I KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON

> WITH MY BODY. I REALLY felt brushed off and upset with the

> situation. I went to sleep, but got up at 11pm and was finally able

> to get it out. And no, it wasn't gas....

>

> The language barrier pretty much SUCKS....just know that going into

> it. Or, if you know fluent Spanish, more power to you - you'll be

> fine.

>

> Yes, they clean the floors a lot. Smells horrible and stinks up your

> room several times a day.

>

> Whether I'd do it again in Mexicali or not, I don't know. I think

> Dr. Aceves is pretty knowledgeable and skilled at what he does, but I

> assume there are other Dr.'s with the same competance/experien ce.

>

> My wife would say there's NO WAY she'd want to do it again in

> Mexicali. I'm just trying to give you the most information I can on

> how everything went and let you make your own decision on it.

>

> As for the surgery itself, I'm glad I'm through with it and am

> looking forward to getting my life back as a thinner person.

>

[Guest guest]

...I think the attitude issue is that in the 4 nights and 5 days you were in Mexico you could only find one positive of the entire experience that you related. You have a grocery list of negatives and one nice thing, you liked Yolanda. It does make it appear that you are looking for negatives.

For example, the van you were in was purchased in Mexico. The speedometer is in KM, not MPH. If he was going 90 KM that **IS** 56MPH. So he was going one mile per hour over the speed limit, fine. Shoot the man. I agree that California drivers suck, they do. But that's how they drive.

If the hotel smelled like smoke you should have asked for a different room if they didn't make it right. If they wouldn't do that you could have called Nina. She would have had you transferred to another room without a 2nd thought. If you did call Nina complaining about the room and she did nothing then I would say your complaint is totally legit. Did you call her? Did you request a different room when the spray did not work?

Why do you care that the nurse wasn't wearing gloves to draw your blood? I don't wear them all the time either when I'm drawing blood. For the 3rd time, during blood draws gloves are not for YOUR protection, it is for the staff's protection. Gloves are to protect the person from YOUR blood. Gloves are not to protect you from your own blood. After you have drawn blood from your 1 gazillionth patient you learn what it feels like when you hit a vein or are close to a vein. Sometimes on a difficult to draw patient I can't get the vein with gloves on. Considering I was trained to draw without gloves it is still hard for me to draw with gloves on.

, who called you a liar? Post that quote. I don't recall seeing that word anywhere. Nobody has attacked you, nobody has called you a liar, nobody has said you can't post any bloody thing you want. All we have said is that we didn't experience the same as you. That just isn't an attack.

You aren't going to find toxic wastebaskets in patient rooms in the US either. They are called red bag containers. We didn't have them at Mayo Clinic, they don't have them at Almater. At any hospital they'll have red bag containers in OR, pathology, etc., but not in each patient room. They have sharps containers in each room in the US and Almater.

I just called a friend that was just discharged from a Phoenix hospital. She's a nurse (retired). I asked her if things have changed in the last couple of years and she said that when she was getting dressing changes, etc., they threw the tape, etc., in her garbage. I asked if there were red bag containers in each room, she said no. Just a sharps container.

You are getting very defensive merely because we can't say we experienced as many negatives as you found. Again, I'm sorry you had a bad experience and considering you wrote that you would never go back to Mexicali again, you clearly had a negative experience. Me, I've been there twice for surgery and I'd do it again. I've been in the OR during surgery on my friends, I've been a patient twice, I've taken four of my friends there for their own surgery and I just didn't experience the same as you. And no, that is not an attack, it is a comparison of experiences.

On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:41 AM, Krogman <sakrogman@...> wrote:

People are saying that I have a bad attitude, but I don't understand

how my stating facts about my trip transfer to me having a bad attitude.

- How does Ernesto driving 90 while passing someone with oncoming

traffic transfer to me as having a bad attitude? This didn't happen

once, but happened for my entire trip down and back.

- How does the fact the hotel smelled like smoke and gave us both

headaches a problem with my attitude? I couldn't change it, I was

just stating a fact.

- How does the fact that the nurse wasn't wearing gloves while taking

my blood mean that I have a bad attitude? I was just making a

statement of what I noticed and then get attacked and called a liar on

here.

- I never said anything about sharps containers. I said I didn't see

any toxic wastebaskets for blood - meaning all of my blood covered

items went directly into my trash...and why does this fact mean I have

a bad attitude?

- Yeah, I felt like crap for 3 days, but you can ask others that were

there I was always friendly and most of the time had a smile on my

face...how is this a bad attitude?

I never even said I had a bad experience. Maybe the people reading

what I went through in their owns minds would have labeled it a 'bad'

experience, but I said nothing of the sort. I was just tell 'my

experience'.

I've been emailed by people who agreed with almost everything I wrote,

so I know I'm not the only one here. Everyone else is just afraid of

what people will say, and figure it's not worth the effort. The

feeling is, if you don't have anything but perfection to say, don't

say anything at all...or else.

All in all, I'm glad I went and I'm very happy to now be sleeved.

>

> I just had surgery with Dr. Aceves one week ago today. I was sleeved

> on the 22nd. I honestly don't know why people on the boards write

> that it's such a great experience.. .it's a HARD few days! Everything

> they write is pretty accurate as far as the schedule:

>

> - You fly into San Diego.

>

> - Ernesto picks you up and then drives like a mad-man to Mexicali,

> he'll actually drive you right to the hospital.

>

> - You then go inside and be seated and given a clear vial/cup to pee

> in. Once you come out of the bathroom, holding your yellowish filled

> cup (and everyone else being right there to see it), will take

> it from you and you're on to step 2.

>

> - Step 2 is them taking blood samples. The lady that took my blood

> had no gloves on and had a big syringe that she stuck my left hand

> and filled up. Then took that and filled 3 smaller vials. Although

> she did a great job with only sticking me once to get my blood, it

> was a quite different than the US with the lack of gloves and

> treating blood like toxic waste. I didn't see any of the 'red toxic

> wastebaskets' you see here in the US to discard stuff with blood in

> or on it.

>

> - After having your blood drawn, you'll be taken to get weighed, have

> an x-ray and an ekg- Then you all get together and meet in a room

> with Yolanda and she gives you some paperwork to fill out later that

> night and you fork over the money. Yolanda is fantastic.

>

> - After you're done there, Ernesto takes you on a wild 'stop-and-go

> filled' ride through the streets of Mexico to the hotel.

>

> - You'll have some time to relax at the hotel. There's several

> places to eat that are all part of the hotel. The hotel is actually

> really nice on the outside, but our room smelled horribly like smoke

> and instantly give my wife and I headaches. We tried to explain it

> to the staff and to get them to spray something in there to make it

> better...Not sure what they sprayed, but it was worse than the smoke-

> smell. We decided to get out of there and get something to eat! You

> can eat anything that night.

>

> - At 7:40 that night Dr. Campos came and met with all of us in a

> conference room at the hotel. He talked about the procedures a

> little and answered a few questions. Lasted about 40 minutes. He

> seemed like he was ready to leave, and kind of cut our questions

> short...but later my wife and I assumed he wanted to get to bed for a

> long next day.

>

> - 7 am the next day Ernesto will pick you up and take you to the

> hospital and taken to a room.

>

> - Then Dr. Aceves (this is the first time I saw him) will meet with

> everyone in 1 room and talk about what's going to happen. There were

> 3 sleeves and a band when I was there. He wouldn't tell us the order

> or who was going first, you just have to go back to your room and

> wait for them to come get you. Well, we knew the band was going

> first, but he wouldn't tell us the order of the sleeves.- Then they

> wheel you off . . . and . . . then you wake up in the recovery room.

>

> - I was very out of it - had a VERY hard time keeping my eyes open.

>

> - The rest of the day was pretty rough on me. I had pretty much non-

> stop dry heaves, and once I threw up a bunch of blood. It was a

> really bad experience. My wife called in a nurse when I puked all

> the blood and she said 'it's normal'. Dumped it out, rinsed it in

> our sink and put the container on a shelf up above the toilet. We

> weren't given a new one (and the sink where it was rinsed was the

> sink we were using for brushing our teeth, washing our hands, etc.

> Didn't seem very sanitary - but I'm used to the GOOD 'OL USA!

>

> - After more dry heaves and passing in and out of consciousness I

> think the day finally ended.

>

> - time to recover.

>

> I had my sleeve done on the 22nd and left the hospital on the 25th.

> On the 24th, I was NOT looking forward to Ernesto and his driving

> techniques driving me back to the airport the next day. I really

> didn't feel well enough to do it. After surgery on the 22nd, and all

> through the 24th, were really hard days for me.

>

> I went to sleep on the 24th about 8:40 and woke up about 3:30 am

> ready to get the heck back into the States. I took a shower (at

> about 3:45) and turned on the tv afterwards. I guess I didn't give

> much thought to my wife trying to sleep, I was ready to start the

> day! I actually felt pretty good the 25th and made the 11 hour trip

> back to my house with no problems.

>

> While in the hospital, we were pretty much left alone (Dr's didn't

> come check on us like they did with everyone else writing comments).

> After my surgery, I only saw Dr. Aceves 3 times, and 2 of those times

> were in 'passing' while I was out trying to walk around. Dr. Campos

> came in my room maybe once a day, and a couple times the day before

> we were to leave. I think there was another Dr. who stopped in once

> or twice. NOTHING like the 4-5 times per day other people are

> saying.

>

> I felt I had a lot of questions on what was going on with my stomach

> post-op, but when trying to ask the questions, said it was normal and

> I'll have to figure it out...GREAT, THANKS!

>

> Other times when asking questions to the Dr.'s, I felt they didn't

> really understand my question and were quick to answer with

> a 'standard' response and get the heck outta my room.

>

> The 2nd night around 8pm I was brushed off by a couple staff

> members. After being able to get the start of a bowel movement out,

> but it being 'stuck' because I was unable to push ... couldn't push

> because my stomach hurt way too much (from surgery and from dry-

> heaving so much). I asked for some stool softener so I could get it

> out. They didn't know what that was, so they were going to check

> into it with someone else. Then came back and said it was just gas,

> and it's normal. REAL NICE..... I THINK I KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON

> WITH MY BODY. I REALLY felt brushed off and upset with the

> situation. I went to sleep, but got up at 11pm and was finally able

> to get it out. And no, it wasn't gas....

>

> The language barrier pretty much SUCKS....just know that going into

> it. Or, if you know fluent Spanish, more power to you - you'll be

> fine.

>

> Yes, they clean the floors a lot. Smells horrible and stinks up your

> room several times a day.

>

> Whether I'd do it again in Mexicali or not, I don't know. I think

> Dr. Aceves is pretty knowledgeable and skilled at what he does, but I

> assume there are other Dr.'s with the same competance/experien ce.

>

> My wife would say there's NO WAY she'd want to do it again in

> Mexicali. I'm just trying to give you the most information I can on

> how everything went and let you make your own decision on it.

>

> As for the surgery itself, I'm glad I'm through with it and am

> looking forward to getting my life back as a thinner person.

>

[Guest guest]

May I ask you when you were on the van with Ernesto? I am curious because we could have been on the van at the same time, according to our dates.

Just curious.....

From: Krogman <sakrogman@...>Subject: Re: Enough already Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 8:41 AM

People are saying that I have a bad attitude, but I don't understandhow my stating facts about my trip transfer to me having a bad attitude. - How does Ernesto driving 90 while passing someone with oncomingtraffic transfer to me as having a bad attitude? This didn't happenonce, but happened for my entire trip down and back. - How does the fact the hotel smelled like smoke and gave us bothheadaches a problem with my attitude? I couldn't change it, I wasjust stating a fact.- How does the fact that the nurse wasn't wearing gloves while takingmy blood mean that I have a bad attitude? I was just making astatement of what I noticed and then get attacked and called a liar onhere.- I never said anything about sharps containers. I said I didn't seeany toxic wastebaskets for blood - meaning all of my blood covereditems went directly into my trash...and why does this fact mean I havea

bad attitude?- Yeah, I felt like crap for 3 days, but you can ask others that werethere I was always friendly and most of the time had a smile on myface...how is this a bad attitude?I never even said I had a bad experience. Maybe the people readingwhat I went through in their owns minds would have labeled it a 'bad'experience, but I said nothing of the sort. I was just tell 'myexperience'.I've been emailed by people who agreed with almost everything I wrote,so I know I'm not the only one here. Everyone else is just afraid ofwhat people will say, and figure it's not worth the effort. Thefeeling is, if you don't have anything but perfection to say, don'tsay anything at all...or else.All in all, I'm glad I went and I'm very happy to now be sleeved.> > I just had surgery with Dr. Aceves one week ago today. I was sleeved > on the 22nd. I honestly don't know why people on the boards write > that it's such a great experience.. .it's a HARD few days! Everything > they write is pretty accurate as far as the schedule: > > - You fly into San Diego.> > - Ernesto picks you up and then drives like a mad-man to Mexicali, > he'll actually drive you right to the hospital.> > - You then go inside and be seated and given a clear vial/cup to pee > in. Once you come out of the bathroom, holding your yellowish filled > cup (and everyone else being right there to see it), will take > it from you and you're on to step 2.> > - Step 2 is them taking blood samples. The lady that took my blood > had no gloves

on and had a big syringe that she stuck my left hand > and filled up. Then took that and filled 3 smaller vials. Although > she did a great job with only sticking me once to get my blood, it > was a quite different than the US with the lack of gloves and > treating blood like toxic waste. I didn't see any of the 'red toxic > wastebaskets' you see here in the US to discard stuff with blood in > or on it.> > - After having your blood drawn, you'll be taken to get weighed, have > an x-ray and an ekg- Then you all get together and meet in a room > with Yolanda and she gives you some paperwork to fill out later that > night and you fork over the money. Yolanda is fantastic.> > - After you're done there, Ernesto takes you on a wild 'stop-and-go > filled' ride through the streets of Mexico to the hotel. > > - You'll have some time to relax at the

hotel. There's several > places to eat that are all part of the hotel. The hotel is actually > really nice on the outside, but our room smelled horribly like smoke > and instantly give my wife and I headaches. We tried to explain it > to the staff and to get them to spray something in there to make it > better...Not sure what they sprayed, but it was worse than the smoke-> smell. We decided to get out of there and get something to eat! You > can eat anything that night.> > - At 7:40 that night Dr. Campos came and met with all of us in a > conference room at the hotel. He talked about the procedures a > little and answered a few questions. Lasted about 40 minutes. He > seemed like he was ready to leave, and kind of cut our questions > short...but later my wife and I assumed he wanted to get to bed for a > long next day.> > - 7 am the next day

Ernesto will pick you up and take you to the > hospital and taken to a room.> > - Then Dr. Aceves (this is the first time I saw him) will meet with > everyone in 1 room and talk about what's going to happen. There were > 3 sleeves and a band when I was there. He wouldn't tell us the order > or who was going first, you just have to go back to your room and > wait for them to come get you. Well, we knew the band was going > first, but he wouldn't tell us the order of the sleeves.- Then they > wheel you off . . . and . . . then you wake up in the recovery room.> > - I was very out of it - had a VERY hard time keeping my eyes open. > > - The rest of the day was pretty rough on me. I had pretty much non-> stop dry heaves, and once I threw up a bunch of blood. It was a > really bad experience. My wife called in a nurse when I puked all > the blood

and she said 'it's normal'. Dumped it out, rinsed it in > our sink and put the container on a shelf up above the toilet. We > weren't given a new one (and the sink where it was rinsed was the > sink we were using for brushing our teeth, washing our hands, etc. > Didn't seem very sanitary - but I'm used to the GOOD 'OL USA!> > - After more dry heaves and passing in and out of consciousness I > think the day finally ended.> > - time to recover. > > I had my sleeve done on the 22nd and left the hospital on the 25th. > On the 24th, I was NOT looking forward to Ernesto and his driving > techniques driving me back to the airport the next day. I really > didn't feel well enough to do it. After surgery on the 22nd, and all > through the 24th, were really hard days for me. > > I went to sleep on the 24th about 8:40 and woke up about 3:30 am

> ready to get the heck back into the States. I took a shower (at > about 3:45) and turned on the tv afterwards. I guess I didn't give > much thought to my wife trying to sleep, I was ready to start the > day! I actually felt pretty good the 25th and made the 11 hour trip > back to my house with no problems. > > While in the hospital, we were pretty much left alone (Dr's didn't > come check on us like they did with everyone else writing comments). > After my surgery, I only saw Dr. Aceves 3 times, and 2 of those times > were in 'passing' while I was out trying to walk around. Dr. Campos > came in my room maybe once a day, and a couple times the day before > we were to leave. I think there was another Dr. who stopped in once > or twice. NOTHING like the 4-5 times per day other people are > saying. > > I felt I had a lot of questions on what was

going on with my stomach > post-op, but when trying to ask the questions, said it was normal and > I'll have to figure it out...GREAT, THANKS! > > Other times when asking questions to the Dr.'s, I felt they didn't > really understand my question and were quick to answer with > a 'standard' response and get the heck outta my room. > > The 2nd night around 8pm I was brushed off by a couple staff > members. After being able to get the start of a bowel movement out, > but it being 'stuck' because I was unable to push ... couldn't push > because my stomach hurt way too much (from surgery and from dry-> heaving so much). I asked for some stool softener so I could get it > out. They didn't know what that was, so they were going to check > into it with someone else. Then came back and said it was just gas, > and it's normal. REAL NICE..... I THINK I KNOW

WHAT'S GOING ON > WITH MY BODY. I REALLY felt brushed off and upset with the > situation. I went to sleep, but got up at 11pm and was finally able > to get it out. And no, it wasn't gas.... > > The language barrier pretty much SUCKS....just know that going into > it. Or, if you know fluent Spanish, more power to you - you'll be > fine. > > Yes, they clean the floors a lot. Smells horrible and stinks up your > room several times a day. > > Whether I'd do it again in Mexicali or not, I don't know. I think > Dr. Aceves is pretty knowledgeable and skilled at what he does, but I > assume there are other Dr.'s with the same competance/experien ce. > > My wife would say there's NO WAY she'd want to do it again in > Mexicali. I'm just trying to give you the most information I can on > how everything went and let you make your own

decision on it. > > As for the surgery itself, I'm glad I'm through with it and am > looking forward to getting my life back as a thinner person.>

[Guest guest]

,

I was not trying to put you on the defense. You are more than welcome to describe your experiences here just as the rest of us are. As I stated in my response to you, I am sorry your experience was so bad. Whether or not these things happened is beside the point, whatever happened, YOU felt as if it were not up to par or not the same as everyone elses. For that I am sorry.

I also know how we feel can determine our outlook on things.

From: Krogman <sakrogman@...>Subject: Re: Enough already Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 8:41 AM

People are saying that I have a bad attitude, but I don't understandhow my stating facts about my trip transfer to me having a bad attitude. - How does Ernesto driving 90 while passing someone with oncomingtraffic transfer to me as having a bad attitude? This didn't happenonce, but happened for my entire trip down and back. - How does the fact the hotel smelled like smoke and gave us bothheadaches a problem with my attitude? I couldn't change it, I wasjust stating a fact.- How does the fact that the nurse wasn't wearing gloves while takingmy blood mean that I have a bad attitude? I was just making astatement of what I noticed and then get attacked and called a liar onhere.- I never said anything about sharps containers. I said I didn't seeany toxic wastebaskets for blood - meaning all of my blood covereditems went directly into my trash...and why does this fact mean I havea

bad attitude?- Yeah, I felt like crap for 3 days, but you can ask others that werethere I was always friendly and most of the time had a smile on myface...how is this a bad attitude?I never even said I had a bad experience. Maybe the people readingwhat I went through in their owns minds would have labeled it a 'bad'experience, but I said nothing of the sort. I was just tell 'myexperience'.I've been emailed by people who agreed with almost everything I wrote,so I know I'm not the only one here. Everyone else is just afraid ofwhat people will say, and figure it's not worth the effort. Thefeeling is, if you don't have anything but perfection to say, don'tsay anything at all...or else.All in all, I'm glad I went and I'm very happy to now be sleeved.> > I just had surgery with Dr. Aceves one week ago today. I was sleeved > on the 22nd. I honestly don't know why people on the boards write > that it's such a great experience.. .it's a HARD few days! Everything > they write is pretty accurate as far as the schedule: > > - You fly into San Diego.> > - Ernesto picks you up and then drives like a mad-man to Mexicali, > he'll actually drive you right to the hospital.> > - You then go inside and be seated and given a clear vial/cup to pee > in. Once you come out of the bathroom, holding your yellowish filled > cup (and everyone else being right there to see it), will take > it from you and you're on to step 2.> > - Step 2 is them taking blood samples. The lady that took my blood > had no gloves

on and had a big syringe that she stuck my left hand > and filled up. Then took that and filled 3 smaller vials. Although > she did a great job with only sticking me once to get my blood, it > was a quite different than the US with the lack of gloves and > treating blood like toxic waste. I didn't see any of the 'red toxic > wastebaskets' you see here in the US to discard stuff with blood in > or on it.> > - After having your blood drawn, you'll be taken to get weighed, have > an x-ray and an ekg- Then you all get together and meet in a room > with Yolanda and she gives you some paperwork to fill out later that > night and you fork over the money. Yolanda is fantastic.> > - After you're done there, Ernesto takes you on a wild 'stop-and-go > filled' ride through the streets of Mexico to the hotel. > > - You'll have some time to relax at the

hotel. There's several > places to eat that are all part of the hotel. The hotel is actually > really nice on the outside, but our room smelled horribly like smoke > and instantly give my wife and I headaches. We tried to explain it > to the staff and to get them to spray something in there to make it > better...Not sure what they sprayed, but it was worse than the smoke-> smell. We decided to get out of there and get something to eat! You > can eat anything that night.> > - At 7:40 that night Dr. Campos came and met with all of us in a > conference room at the hotel. He talked about the procedures a > little and answered a few questions. Lasted about 40 minutes. He > seemed like he was ready to leave, and kind of cut our questions > short...but later my wife and I assumed he wanted to get to bed for a > long next day.> > - 7 am the next day

Ernesto will pick you up and take you to the > hospital and taken to a room.> > - Then Dr. Aceves (this is the first time I saw him) will meet with > everyone in 1 room and talk about what's going to happen. There were > 3 sleeves and a band when I was there. He wouldn't tell us the order > or who was going first, you just have to go back to your room and > wait for them to come get you. Well, we knew the band was going > first, but he wouldn't tell us the order of the sleeves.- Then they > wheel you off . . . and . . . then you wake up in the recovery room.> > - I was very out of it - had a VERY hard time keeping my eyes open. > > - The rest of the day was pretty rough on me. I had pretty much non-> stop dry heaves, and once I threw up a bunch of blood. It was a > really bad experience. My wife called in a nurse when I puked all > the blood

and she said 'it's normal'. Dumped it out, rinsed it in > our sink and put the container on a shelf up above the toilet. We > weren't given a new one (and the sink where it was rinsed was the > sink we were using for brushing our teeth, washing our hands, etc. > Didn't seem very sanitary - but I'm used to the GOOD 'OL USA!> > - After more dry heaves and passing in and out of consciousness I > think the day finally ended.> > - time to recover. > > I had my sleeve done on the 22nd and left the hospital on the 25th. > On the 24th, I was NOT looking forward to Ernesto and his driving > techniques driving me back to the airport the next day. I really > didn't feel well enough to do it. After surgery on the 22nd, and all > through the 24th, were really hard days for me. > > I went to sleep on the 24th about 8:40 and woke up about 3:30 am

> ready to get the heck back into the States. I took a shower (at > about 3:45) and turned on the tv afterwards. I guess I didn't give > much thought to my wife trying to sleep, I was ready to start the > day! I actually felt pretty good the 25th and made the 11 hour trip > back to my house with no problems. > > While in the hospital, we were pretty much left alone (Dr's didn't > come check on us like they did with everyone else writing comments). > After my surgery, I only saw Dr. Aceves 3 times, and 2 of those times > were in 'passing' while I was out trying to walk around. Dr. Campos > came in my room maybe once a day, and a couple times the day before > we were to leave. I think there was another Dr. who stopped in once > or twice. NOTHING like the 4-5 times per day other people are > saying. > > I felt I had a lot of questions on what was

going on with my stomach > post-op, but when trying to ask the questions, said it was normal and > I'll have to figure it out...GREAT, THANKS! > > Other times when asking questions to the Dr.'s, I felt they didn't > really understand my question and were quick to answer with > a 'standard' response and get the heck outta my room. > > The 2nd night around 8pm I was brushed off by a couple staff > members. After being able to get the start of a bowel movement out, > but it being 'stuck' because I was unable to push ... couldn't push > because my stomach hurt way too much (from surgery and from dry-> heaving so much). I asked for some stool softener so I could get it > out. They didn't know what that was, so they were going to check > into it with someone else. Then came back and said it was just gas, > and it's normal. REAL NICE..... I THINK I KNOW

WHAT'S GOING ON > WITH MY BODY. I REALLY felt brushed off and upset with the > situation. I went to sleep, but got up at 11pm and was finally able > to get it out. And no, it wasn't gas.... > > The language barrier pretty much SUCKS....just know that going into > it. Or, if you know fluent Spanish, more power to you - you'll be > fine. > > Yes, they clean the floors a lot. Smells horrible and stinks up your > room several times a day. > > Whether I'd do it again in Mexicali or not, I don't know. I think > Dr. Aceves is pretty knowledgeable and skilled at what he does, but I > assume there are other Dr.'s with the same competance/experien ce. > > My wife would say there's NO WAY she'd want to do it again in > Mexicali. I'm just trying to give you the most information I can on > how everything went and let you make your own

decision on it. > > As for the surgery itself, I'm glad I'm through with it and am > looking forward to getting my life back as a thinner person.>

[Guest guest]

,

I was not trying to put you on the defense. You are more than welcome to describe your experiences here just as the rest of us are. As I stated in my response to you, I am sorry your experience was so bad. Whether or not these things happened is beside the point, whatever happened, YOU felt as if it were not up to par or not the same as everyone elses. For that I am sorry.

I also know how we feel can determine our outlook on things. When w

From: Krogman <sakrogman@...>Subject: Re: Enough already Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 8:41 AM

People are saying that I have a bad attitude, but I don't understandhow my stating facts about my trip transfer to me having a bad attitude. - How does Ernesto driving 90 while passing someone with oncomingtraffic transfer to me as having a bad attitude? This didn't happenonce, but happened for my entire trip down and back. - How does the fact the hotel smelled like smoke and gave us bothheadaches a problem with my attitude? I couldn't change it, I wasjust stating a fact.- How does the fact that the nurse wasn't wearing gloves while takingmy blood mean that I have a bad attitude? I was just making astatement of what I noticed and then get attacked and called a liar onhere.- I never said anything about sharps containers. I said I didn't seeany toxic wastebaskets for blood - meaning all of my blood covereditems went directly into my trash...and why does this fact mean I havea

bad attitude?- Yeah, I felt like crap for 3 days, but you can ask others that werethere I was always friendly and most of the time had a smile on myface...how is this a bad attitude?I never even said I had a bad experience. Maybe the people readingwhat I went through in their owns minds would have labeled it a 'bad'experience, but I said nothing of the sort. I was just tell 'myexperience'.I've been emailed by people who agreed with almost everything I wrote,so I know I'm not the only one here. Everyone else is just afraid ofwhat people will say, and figure it's not worth the effort. Thefeeling is, if you don't have anything but perfection to say, don'tsay anything at all...or else.All in all, I'm glad I went and I'm very happy to now be sleeved.> > I just had surgery with Dr. Aceves one week ago today. I was sleeved > on the 22nd. I honestly don't know why people on the boards write > that it's such a great experience.. .it's a HARD few days! Everything > they write is pretty accurate as far as the schedule: > > - You fly into San Diego.> > - Ernesto picks you up and then drives like a mad-man to Mexicali, > he'll actually drive you right to the hospital.> > - You then go inside and be seated and given a clear vial/cup to pee > in. Once you come out of the bathroom, holding your yellowish filled > cup (and everyone else being right there to see it), will take > it from you and you're on to step 2.> > - Step 2 is them taking blood samples. The lady that took my blood > had no gloves

on and had a big syringe that she stuck my left hand > and filled up. Then took that and filled 3 smaller vials. Although > she did a great job with only sticking me once to get my blood, it > was a quite different than the US with the lack of gloves and > treating blood like toxic waste. I didn't see any of the 'red toxic > wastebaskets' you see here in the US to discard stuff with blood in > or on it.> > - After having your blood drawn, you'll be taken to get weighed, have > an x-ray and an ekg- Then you all get together and meet in a room > with Yolanda and she gives you some paperwork to fill out later that > night and you fork over the money. Yolanda is fantastic.> > - After you're done there, Ernesto takes you on a wild 'stop-and-go > filled' ride through the streets of Mexico to the hotel. > > - You'll have some time to relax at the

hotel. There's several > places to eat that are all part of the hotel. The hotel is actually > really nice on the outside, but our room smelled horribly like smoke > and instantly give my wife and I headaches. We tried to explain it > to the staff and to get them to spray something in there to make it > better...Not sure what they sprayed, but it was worse than the smoke-> smell. We decided to get out of there and get something to eat! You > can eat anything that night.> > - At 7:40 that night Dr. Campos came and met with all of us in a > conference room at the hotel. He talked about the procedures a > little and answered a few questions. Lasted about 40 minutes. He > seemed like he was ready to leave, and kind of cut our questions > short...but later my wife and I assumed he wanted to get to bed for a > long next day.> > - 7 am the next day

Ernesto will pick you up and take you to the > hospital and taken to a room.> > - Then Dr. Aceves (this is the first time I saw him) will meet with > everyone in 1 room and talk about what's going to happen. There were > 3 sleeves and a band when I was there. He wouldn't tell us the order > or who was going first, you just have to go back to your room and > wait for them to come get you. Well, we knew the band was going > first, but he wouldn't tell us the order of the sleeves.- Then they > wheel you off . . . and . . . then you wake up in the recovery room.> > - I was very out of it - had a VERY hard time keeping my eyes open. > > - The rest of the day was pretty rough on me. I had pretty much non-> stop dry heaves, and once I threw up a bunch of blood. It was a > really bad experience. My wife called in a nurse when I puked all > the blood

and she said 'it's normal'. Dumped it out, rinsed it in > our sink and put the container on a shelf up above the toilet. We > weren't given a new one (and the sink where it was rinsed was the > sink we were using for brushing our teeth, washing our hands, etc. > Didn't seem very sanitary - but I'm used to the GOOD 'OL USA!> > - After more dry heaves and passing in and out of consciousness I > think the day finally ended.> > - time to recover. > > I had my sleeve done on the 22nd and left the hospital on the 25th. > On the 24th, I was NOT looking forward to Ernesto and his driving > techniques driving me back to the airport the next day. I really > didn't feel well enough to do it. After surgery on the 22nd, and all > through the 24th, were really hard days for me. > > I went to sleep on the 24th about 8:40 and woke up about 3:30 am

> ready to get the heck back into the States. I took a shower (at > about 3:45) and turned on the tv afterwards. I guess I didn't give > much thought to my wife trying to sleep, I was ready to start the > day! I actually felt pretty good the 25th and made the 11 hour trip > back to my house with no problems. > > While in the hospital, we were pretty much left alone (Dr's didn't > come check on us like they did with everyone else writing comments). > After my surgery, I only saw Dr. Aceves 3 times, and 2 of those times > were in 'passing' while I was out trying to walk around. Dr. Campos > came in my room maybe once a day, and a couple times the day before > we were to leave. I think there was another Dr. who stopped in once > or twice. NOTHING like the 4-5 times per day other people are > saying. > > I felt I had a lot of questions on what was

going on with my stomach > post-op, but when trying to ask the questions, said it was normal and > I'll have to figure it out...GREAT, THANKS! > > Other times when asking questions to the Dr.'s, I felt they didn't > really understand my question and were quick to answer with > a 'standard' response and get the heck outta my room. > > The 2nd night around 8pm I was brushed off by a couple staff > members. After being able to get the start of a bowel movement out, > but it being 'stuck' because I was unable to push ... couldn't push > because my stomach hurt way too much (from surgery and from dry-> heaving so much). I asked for some stool softener so I could get it > out. They didn't know what that was, so they were going to check > into it with someone else. Then came back and said it was just gas, > and it's normal. REAL NICE..... I THINK I KNOW

WHAT'S GOING ON > WITH MY BODY. I REALLY felt brushed off and upset with the > situation. I went to sleep, but got up at 11pm and was finally able > to get it out. And no, it wasn't gas.... > > The language barrier pretty much SUCKS....just know that going into > it. Or, if you know fluent Spanish, more power to you - you'll be > fine. > > Yes, they clean the floors a lot. Smells horrible and stinks up your > room several times a day. > > Whether I'd do it again in Mexicali or not, I don't know. I think > Dr. Aceves is pretty knowledgeable and skilled at what he does, but I > assume there are other Dr.'s with the same competance/experien ce. > > My wife would say there's NO WAY she'd want to do it again in > Mexicali. I'm just trying to give you the most information I can on > how everything went and let you make your own

decision on it. > > As for the surgery itself, I'm glad I'm through with it and am > looking forward to getting my life back as a thinner person.>

[Guest guest]

Something happend to the last email I was in the process of writing....I must have hit the wrong button by mistake.

Anyway, let me continue with what I was saying.

When we feel poorly, our outlook is often poorer than when we feel good. That is what I meant when I sad something about patient attitude. I felt like crap after my surgery last week and ended up staying longer than originally planned because I was so miserable. But, I must say, I was lucky in that my experience was not as poor as yours.

I have stayed at the Hotel Lucerna many times in my 10 visits to Mexicali. I remember the first time I was there, my room was awful. It was dirty, smelly, and hotter than hell. I called the front desk and they came and cleaned the bathroom and sprayed the room. When I returned to my room later that evening, it still smelled but now of a mixture of deodorizer and smoke. I called the front desk again and was moved to a better room that was perfectly fine. Oh, I also had to do that at a hotel in San Diego and I remember doing the same thing in Denver one time. Sometimes shit happens.

You are welcome to post here. I am sorry you feel as if you were/are being attacked. I don't believe that any of us intended to do that. We are all in this together and should be nothing but supportive to one another. However, my feathers do tend to get a little ruffled when someone comes here and posts that only one aspect of their experience was positive...it makes it seem a little fishy to those of us who go to the hospital time and time again. Yes, I am a little protective of the hospital. Each time I go there, I come away a feeling better. I am always "healed" when I am there so there is a certain fondness I have for the hospital. Then, I am in no way ashamed to say that I am VERY protective of Dr. Aceves. This man has saved my life several times. I have had my band for almost 3 years and it has NOT been an easy road to travel. I have had several problems with my band that

have required surgical intervention, not just routine fills or unfills. I have had my gallbladder removed by him when none of the 4 doctors I saw here at home had a clue what was wrong with me. It took him 35 minutes from the time of my arrival to diagnose the problem. I had been in pain for months, seen 4 doctors, and it took him 30 minutes. 2 hours and the problem was solved and I have a HUGE gallstone as a memento. Dr. Aceves has solved each and every problem I have had and ALWAYS makes me feel better so, yes, I will protect him to the hilt.

That being said, don't run away from our board. Come back and get the support that this group so freely and readily gives. I'm telling you, it will certainly make your journey down this weightloss road much easier.

Jenni Currie

From: Krogman <sakrogman@...>Subject: Re: Enough already Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 8:41 AM

People are saying that I have a bad attitude, but I don't understandhow my stating facts about my trip transfer to me having a bad attitude. - How does Ernesto driving 90 while passing someone with oncomingtraffic transfer to me as having a bad attitude? This didn't happenonce, but happened for my entire trip down and back. - How does the fact the hotel smelled like smoke and gave us bothheadaches a problem with my attitude? I couldn't change it, I wasjust stating a fact.- How does the fact that the nurse wasn't wearing gloves while takingmy blood mean that I have a bad attitude? I was just making astatement of what I noticed and then get attacked and called a liar onhere.- I never said anything about sharps containers. I said I didn't seeany toxic wastebaskets for blood - meaning all of my blood covereditems went directly into my trash...and why does this fact mean I havea

bad attitude?- Yeah, I felt like crap for 3 days, but you can ask others that werethere I was always friendly and most of the time had a smile on myface...how is this a bad attitude?I never even said I had a bad experience. Maybe the people readingwhat I went through in their owns minds would have labeled it a 'bad'experience, but I said nothing of the sort. I was just tell 'myexperience'.I've been emailed by people who agreed with almost everything I wrote,so I know I'm not the only one here. Everyone else is just afraid ofwhat people will say, and figure it's not worth the effort. Thefeeling is, if you don't have anything but perfection to say, don'tsay anything at all...or else.All in all, I'm glad I went and I'm very happy to now be sleeved.> > I just had surgery with Dr. Aceves one week ago today. I was sleeved > on the 22nd. I honestly don't know why people on the boards write > that it's such a great experience.. .it's a HARD few days! Everything > they write is pretty accurate as far as the schedule: > > - You fly into San Diego.> > - Ernesto picks you up and then drives like a mad-man to Mexicali, > he'll actually drive you right to the hospital.> > - You then go inside and be seated and given a clear vial/cup to pee > in. Once you come out of the bathroom, holding your yellowish filled > cup (and everyone else being right there to see it), will take > it from you and you're on to step 2.> > - Step 2 is them taking blood samples. The lady that took my blood > had no gloves

on and had a big syringe that she stuck my left hand > and filled up. Then took that and filled 3 smaller vials. Although > she did a great job with only sticking me once to get my blood, it > was a quite different than the US with the lack of gloves and > treating blood like toxic waste. I didn't see any of the 'red toxic > wastebaskets' you see here in the US to discard stuff with blood in > or on it.> > - After having your blood drawn, you'll be taken to get weighed, have > an x-ray and an ekg- Then you all get together and meet in a room > with Yolanda and she gives you some paperwork to fill out later that > night and you fork over the money. Yolanda is fantastic.> > - After you're done there, Ernesto takes you on a wild 'stop-and-go > filled' ride through the streets of Mexico to the hotel. > > - You'll have some time to relax at the

hotel. There's several > places to eat that are all part of the hotel. The hotel is actually > really nice on the outside, but our room smelled horribly like smoke > and instantly give my wife and I headaches. We tried to explain it > to the staff and to get them to spray something in there to make it > better...Not sure what they sprayed, but it was worse than the smoke-> smell. We decided to get out of there and get something to eat! You > can eat anything that night.> > - At 7:40 that night Dr. Campos came and met with all of us in a > conference room at the hotel. He talked about the procedures a > little and answered a few questions. Lasted about 40 minutes. He > seemed like he was ready to leave, and kind of cut our questions > short...but later my wife and I assumed he wanted to get to bed for a > long next day.> > - 7 am the next day

Ernesto will pick you up and take you to the > hospital and taken to a room.> > - Then Dr. Aceves (this is the first time I saw him) will meet with > everyone in 1 room and talk about what's going to happen. There were > 3 sleeves and a band when I was there. He wouldn't tell us the order > or who was going first, you just have to go back to your room and > wait for them to come get you. Well, we knew the band was going > first, but he wouldn't tell us the order of the sleeves.- Then they > wheel you off . . . and . . . then you wake up in the recovery room.> > - I was very out of it - had a VERY hard time keeping my eyes open. > > - The rest of the day was pretty rough on me. I had pretty much non-> stop dry heaves, and once I threw up a bunch of blood. It was a > really bad experience. My wife called in a nurse when I puked all > the blood

and she said 'it's normal'. Dumped it out, rinsed it in > our sink and put the container on a shelf up above the toilet. We > weren't given a new one (and the sink where it was rinsed was the > sink we were using for brushing our teeth, washing our hands, etc. > Didn't seem very sanitary - but I'm used to the GOOD 'OL USA!> > - After more dry heaves and passing in and out of consciousness I > think the day finally ended.> > - time to recover. > > I had my sleeve done on the 22nd and left the hospital on the 25th. > On the 24th, I was NOT looking forward to Ernesto and his driving > techniques driving me back to the airport the next day. I really > didn't feel well enough to do it. After surgery on the 22nd, and all > through the 24th, were really hard days for me. > > I went to sleep on the 24th about 8:40 and woke up about 3:30 am

> ready to get the heck back into the States. I took a shower (at > about 3:45) and turned on the tv afterwards. I guess I didn't give > much thought to my wife trying to sleep, I was ready to start the > day! I actually felt pretty good the 25th and made the 11 hour trip > back to my house with no problems. > > While in the hospital, we were pretty much left alone (Dr's didn't > come check on us like they did with everyone else writing comments). > After my surgery, I only saw Dr. Aceves 3 times, and 2 of those times > were in 'passing' while I was out trying to walk around. Dr. Campos > came in my room maybe once a day, and a couple times the day before > we were to leave. I think there was another Dr. who stopped in once > or twice. NOTHING like the 4-5 times per day other people are > saying. > > I felt I had a lot of questions on what was

going on with my stomach > post-op, but when trying to ask the questions, said it was normal and > I'll have to figure it out...GREAT, THANKS! > > Other times when asking questions to the Dr.'s, I felt they didn't > really understand my question and were quick to answer with > a 'standard' response and get the heck outta my room. > > The 2nd night around 8pm I was brushed off by a couple staff > members. After being able to get the start of a bowel movement out, > but it being 'stuck' because I was unable to push ... couldn't push > because my stomach hurt way too much (from surgery and from dry-> heaving so much). I asked for some stool softener so I could get it > out. They didn't know what that was, so they were going to check > into it with someone else. Then came back and said it was just gas, > and it's normal. REAL NICE..... I THINK I KNOW

WHAT'S GOING ON > WITH MY BODY. I REALLY felt brushed off and upset with the > situation. I went to sleep, but got up at 11pm and was finally able > to get it out. And no, it wasn't gas.... > > The language barrier pretty much SUCKS....just know that going into > it. Or, if you know fluent Spanish, more power to you - you'll be > fine. > > Yes, they clean the floors a lot. Smells horrible and stinks up your > room several times a day. > > Whether I'd do it again in Mexicali or not, I don't know. I think > Dr. Aceves is pretty knowledgeable and skilled at what he does, but I > assume there are other Dr.'s with the same competance/experien ce. > > My wife would say there's NO WAY she'd want to do it again in > Mexicali. I'm just trying to give you the most information I can on > how everything went and let you make your own

decision on it. > > As for the surgery itself, I'm glad I'm through with it and am > looking forward to getting my life back as a thinner person.>