Re: prescr. drugs

[Guest guest]

Hi

THis is not keeping me awake although I am writing this at 3 o'clock in the

morning!!!! THis is a very interesting viewpoint. I am an engineer myself and

would be held accountable for the flaws i n my designs... INterestingly enough,

this process of accountability has been perverted by the medical profession and

the powerful pharmaceutical companies. They are businesses whose only motive is

profit. They employ everything in the arsenal to maximize their profit.. That it

be in contradiction with what their mission statement SHOULD have been (

increasing the health of people) is quickly brushed aside by the fact that the

sicker WE are the higher their profit.. A Rather perverse position if you asked

me but the reality nonetheless.. The doctors are simply pawns in their hands,

too happy to reap the profits windfalls to ask the basic question or raise

skepticism, the few who do are often crushed by the establishment or the public

itself.. Think about a

doctor who doesn't prescribe a painkiller for a migraine? Most people would

decide he/she is strange.. The public is conditioned to be medicated... We

believe in quick fixes.. In a pill-for-each-ailment mentality... Ok you have a

kidney problem? Take this pill.... oh! it creates a stomach problem? No problem

take this other pill... etc..  The process is never ending...More side effects,

ore pills, more quick fixes... more addressing the effects rather than the

causes... WHY do you hve the migraine? WHAT causes it?

I'll stop .. This is the Coconut Forum but this needed to be said...

Frantz

> Hi

>

> I agree.

>

> You cannot blame the doctors. They were brainwashed by the powers that

> have the money and they don't even know it is happening.

>

> Think about it. You are a young man or woman just out of high school. You

> have decided to become a doctor. That means study and lots of it. You are

> healthy and young so you don't even relate to the sick among us. If you have

> extra time, you probably aren't thinking about health. You are probably

thinking

> about cars, girls and sports. After premed, you go to doctor's school and

that

> means more studies again with little time for anything else. During this

time, you

> might get married and when the studies are all over, you practice medicine.

When

> did you have time to question alternatives? ?? You didn't. Anyway, med

school

> did such a good job on you, you are convinced alternatives are all quackery.

>

> Little by little you find out that the " miracle drugs " they taught you about

in med

> school don't really work all that well and some seem to be causing disease.

You

> have the occasional patient who takes supplements and tries to tell you a

little

> about it but you don't have time in the 6 minute visit to really hear what

the

> patient was saying and anyway, weren't you taught it was all quackery? As

time

> goes on and you get older, you might read the odd thing about a vitamin here

> and there that might be beneficial for some of your patients. You might even

> learn a few more things from your patients but they aren't doctors after all.

If

> you practice medicine in Canada, you could even lose your license if you

> prescribed too many vitamins. And you don't have time to study your journals

> of medicine let alone a book about vitamins.

>

> By the time, you finally decide that you would like to learn more about these

> things, you are retired.

>

> Of course, this is a generalization. Not all doctors are not the same. Nor

> should we expect them to be. Even though some people need a hero and

> think doctors are gods, they are really only human beings after all and each

> one has a different personality. Some are analytic; others are happy just to

> go along with what they learned at med school. I have heard of some

> doctors, who when they found out how badly they had been duped, are

> extremely angry about it but they are far and few between.

>

> To find a doctor with an open mind is a rarity. Marie, you seem to have

> found such a doctor. Most doctors don't even ask one thing about diet, for

> example. Very few doctors are willing to think outside the box but it seems

> your doctor is doing just that. I wish I could have her for my own doctor.

> Even the naturopath doctors have an arsenal of products in their back office

> that influences their decisions.

>

> I don't do all my doctor says. Actually I do almost nothing he says. I just

use

> him for the odd bit of information now and again or to do some tests. When

> I find out what is wrong, I go to my favorite health suppliers and get what I

> need. It is surprising how often I find the exact right thing. Of course, I

am

> rarely sick since I take a lot of healthy stuff on a regular basis.

>

> Helen

>

 

[Guest guest]

I agree with Alobar. In fact, the medical industry and the food

industry work in synch with each other. The food industry creates the

processed foods that make us sick and unhealthy and the medical

industry pretends to help us with our food induced illnesses

(diabetes) by prescribing drugs with toxic side effects. Bottom line

is that the doctors don't make money unless they can keep us sick and

the food industry obliges by feeding us food that keeps us sick so

that we are always in need of the doctor and his poisonous drugs.

phine

P.S. Check out Weston Price and his research on the modern diet that

is responsible for our degenerative diseases.

http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/history/biographies/price.htm

> > Hi

> >

> > I agree.

> >

> > You cannot blame the doctors. They were brainwashed by the

powers that

> > have the money and they don't even know it is happening.

> >

> > Think about it. You are a young man or woman just out of high

school. You

> > have decided to become a doctor. That means study and lots of

it. You are

> > healthy and young so you don't even relate to the sick among us.

If you have

> > extra time, you probably aren't thinking about health. You are

probably thinking

> > about cars, girls and sports. After premed, you go to doctor's

school and that

> > means more studies again with little time for anything else.

During this time, you

> > might get married and when the studies are all over, you practice

medicine. When

> > did you have time to question alternatives??? You didn't.

Anyway, med school

> > did such a good job on you, you are convinced alternatives are

all quackery.

> >

> > Little by little you find out that the " miracle drugs " they

taught you about in med

> > school don't really work all that well and some seem to be

causing disease. You

> > have the occasional patient who takes supplements and tries to

tell you a little

> > about it but you don't have time in the 6 minute visit to really

hear what the

> > patient was saying and anyway, weren't you taught it was all

quackery? As time

> > goes on and you get older, you might read the odd thing about a

vitamin here

> > and there that might be beneficial for some of your patients.

You might even

> > learn a few more things from your patients but they aren't

doctors after all. If

> > you practice medicine in Canada, you could even lose your license

if you

> > prescribed too many vitamins. And you don't have time to study

your journals

> > of medicine let alone a book about vitamins.

> >

> > By the time, you finally decide that you would like to learn more

about these

> > things, you are retired.

> >

> > Of course, this is a generalization. Not all doctors are not the

same. Nor

> > should we expect them to be. Even though some people need a hero and

> > think doctors are gods, they are really only human beings after

all and each

> > one has a different personality. Some are analytic; others are

happy just to

> > go along with what they learned at med school. I have heard of some

> > doctors, who when they found out how badly they had been duped, are

> > extremely angry about it but they are far and few between.

> >

> > To find a doctor with an open mind is a rarity. Marie, you seem

to have

> > found such a doctor. Most doctors don't even ask one thing about

diet, for

> > example. Very few doctors are willing to think outside the box

but it seems

> > your doctor is doing just that. I wish I could have her for my

own doctor.

> > Even the naturopath doctors have an arsenal of products in their

back office

> > that influences their decisions.

> >

> > I don't do all my doctor says. Actually I do almost nothing he

says. I just use

> > him for the odd bit of information now and again or to do some

tests. When

> > I find out what is wrong, I go to my favorite health suppliers

and get what I

> > need. It is surprising how often I find the exact right thing.

Of course, I am

> > rarely sick since I take a lot of healthy stuff on a regular basis.

> >

> > Helen

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I believe that many doctors do indeed want us to get well.

I know my doctor did but he could not even conceive of

alternative ways. It was sad really.

Prescribing drugs and training doctors to do their bidding

is a ploy of the drug companies who help to train these

unsuspecting doctors. The blame lies in the training of

these doctors.

A doctor has nothing to lose if he loses a patient or two to

alternative healing practitioners. Where I live I couldn't even

find a doctor when my doctor retired. I still don't have a

doctor. I would rather not have one but there might be a

time I need one so I guess I have to keep looking. The

doctors aren't worried about the selling of drugs and

keeping us sick. It's the drug companies who take care

of that. The doctors are just pawns and they don't even

realize it.

Many doctors are not accepting new patients so

they don't care because even if a patient moves or goes

to a different type of doctor, his bases are covered. For

everyone who takes a few supplements and tries to follow

a good diet for their health there are many who think their

health is in drugs and almighty science.

I know all about the food companies. They would put

cocaine in their concoctions if they thought they could get

away with it. So now they are settling for MSG and

Splenda. It's all about Big Pharma, Big Food companies,

Big Agriculture, Big Chemical companies and it is these

who are killing us.

Helen

Re: prescr. drugs

I agree with Alobar. In fact, the medical industry and the food

industry work in synch with each other. The food industry creates the

processed foods that make us sick and unhealthy and the medical

industry pretends to help us with our food induced illnesses

(diabetes) by prescribing drugs with toxic side effects. Bottom line

is that the doctors don't make money unless they can keep us sick and

the food industry obliges by feeding us food that keeps us sick so

that we are always in need of the doctor and his poisonous drugs.

phine

P.S. Check out Weston Price and his research on the modern diet that

is responsible for our degenerative diseases.

http://www.mnwelldi r.org/docs/ history/biograph ies/price. htm

> > Hi

> >

> > I agree.

> >

> > You cannot blame the doctors. They were brainwashed by the

powers that

> > have the money and they don't even know it is happening.

> >

> > Think about it. You are a young man or woman just out of high

school. You

> > have decided to become a doctor. That means study and lots of

it. You are

> > healthy and young so you don't even relate to the sick among us.

If you have

> > extra time, you probably aren't thinking about health. You are

probably thinking

> > about cars, girls and sports. After premed, you go to doctor's

school and that

> > means more studies again with little time for anything else.

During this time, you

> > might get married and when the studies are all over, you practice

medicine. When

> > did you have time to question alternatives? ?? You didn't.

Anyway, med school

> > did such a good job on you, you are convinced alternatives are

all quackery.

> >

> > Little by little you find out that the " miracle drugs " they

taught you about in med

> > school don't really work all that well and some seem to be

causing disease. You

> > have the occasional patient who takes supplements and tries to

tell you a little

> > about it but you don't have time in the 6 minute visit to really

hear what the

> > patient was saying and anyway, weren't you taught it was all

quackery? As time

> > goes on and you get older, you might read the odd thing about a

vitamin here

> > and there that might be beneficial for some of your patients.

You might even

> > learn a few more things from your patients but they aren't

doctors after all. If

> > you practice medicine in Canada, you could even lose your license

if you

> > prescribed too many vitamins. And you don't have time to study

your journals

> > of medicine let alone a book about vitamins.

> >

> > By the time, you finally decide that you would like to learn more

about these

> > things, you are retired.

> >

> > Of course, this is a generalization. Not all doctors are not the

same. Nor

> > should we expect them to be. Even though some people need a hero and

> > think doctors are gods, they are really only human beings after

all and each

> > one has a different personality. Some are analytic; others are

happy just to

> > go along with what they learned at med school. I have heard of some

> > doctors, who when they found out how badly they had been duped, are

> > extremely angry about it but they are far and few between.

> >

> > To find a doctor with an open mind is a rarity. Marie, you seem

to have

> > found such a doctor. Most doctors don't even ask one thing about

diet, for

> > example. Very few doctors are willing to think outside the box

but it seems

> > your doctor is doing just that. I wish I could have her for my

own doctor.

> > Even the naturopath doctors have an arsenal of products in their

back office

> > that influences their decisions.

> >

> > I don't do all my doctor says. Actually I do almost nothing he

says. I just use

> > him for the odd bit of information now and again or to do some

tests. When

> > I find out what is wrong, I go to my favorite health suppliers

and get what I

> > need. It is surprising how often I find the exact right thing.

Of course, I am

> > rarely sick since I take a lot of healthy stuff on a regular basis.

> >

> > Helen

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Duke

I am not taking statin drugs. I never have taken them.

Helen

Re: [coconut_oil_ open_forum] prescr. drugs

coconut_oil_ open_forum

Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 8:05 AM

..

[Guest guest]

Cholesterol does not indicate a disease condition and cholesterol

meds -- natural or drugs -- are not required. See the Cholesterol

Myths:

http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm

Duncan

>

> What do you guys think of policasanol as an alternative to the

statins.  Policasanol is made from the wax of sugarcanes.  My only

resistance in taking this is that the sugarcanes are fertilized and

heavily sprayed.  If the process the wax and take the beneficial

element and make it into policasanol, do you think the chemicals

would be washed away?  Policasanol acc to the websites i visited

lowers cholesterol and balances HDL/LDL too.

>  

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Helen:

I wasn't making an accusation just stating a fact.

 

Hope your day goes well.

Duke

 

From: helen/zhebee <zhebee (DOT) com>

Subject: Re: [coconut_oil_ open_forum] prescr. drugs

coconut_oil_ open_forum

Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 8:05 AM

..

[Guest guest]

I completely agree with you Helen!

We all have to be proactive about our own health. And that can be so difficult

sometimes. Plus it is tough finding a good doctor, no question.

Have a great day!

Marie

On Tuesday, September 09, 2008, at 06:17PM, " helen/zhebee " <zhebee@...>

wrote:

>Hi

>

>I agree.

>

>You cannot blame the doctors. They were brainwashed by the powers that

>have the money and they don't even know it is happening.

>

>Think about it. You are a young man or woman just out of high school. You

>have decided to become a doctor. That means study and lots of it. You are

>healthy and young so you don't even relate to the sick among us. If you have

>extra time, you probably aren't thinking about health. You are probably

thinking

>about cars, girls and sports. After premed, you go to doctor's school and that

>means more studies again with little time for anything else. During this time,

you

>might get married and when the studies are all over, you practice medicine.

When

>did you have time to question alternatives??? You didn't. Anyway, med school

>did such a good job on you, you are convinced alternatives are all quackery.

>

>Little by little you find out that the " miracle drugs " they taught you about in

med

>school don't really work all that well and some seem to be causing disease.

You

>have the occasional patient who takes supplements and tries to tell you a

little

>about it but you don't have time in the 6 minute visit to really hear what the

>patient was saying and anyway, weren't you taught it was all quackery? As time

>goes on and you get older, you might read the odd thing about a vitamin here

>and there that might be beneficial for some of your patients. You might even

>learn a few more things from your patients but they aren't doctors after all.

If

>you practice medicine in Canada, you could even lose your license if you

>prescribed too many vitamins. And you don't have time to study your journals

>of medicine let alone a book about vitamins.

>

>By the time, you finally decide that you would like to learn more about these

>things, you are retired.

>

>Of course, this is a generalization. Not all doctors are not the same. Nor

>should we expect them to be. Even though some people need a hero and

>think doctors are gods, they are really only human beings after all and each

>one has a different personality. Some are analytic; others are happy just to

>go along with what they learned at med school. I have heard of some

>doctors, who when they found out how badly they had been duped, are

>extremely angry about it but they are far and few between.

>

>To find a doctor with an open mind is a rarity. Marie, you seem to have

>found such a doctor. Most doctors don't even ask one thing about diet, for

>example. Very few doctors are willing to think outside the box but it seems

>your doctor is doing just that. I wish I could have her for my own doctor.

>Even the naturopath doctors have an arsenal of products in their back office

>that influences their decisions.

>

>I don't do all my doctor says. Actually I do almost nothing he says. I just

use

>him for the odd bit of information now and again or to do some tests. When

>I find out what is wrong, I go to my favorite health suppliers and get what I

>need. It is surprising how often I find the exact right thing. Of course, I

am

>rarely sick since I take a lot of healthy stuff on a regular basis.

>

>Helen

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Re: prescr. drugs

>

>

>I agree that most MDs aren't " evil " ; it's more accurate to say they

>are as a group " unaware " , which is just as bad in their chosen field.

>I hate averaging these people though, there are good doctors and bad

>ones; the good ones support health, while the bad ones address only

>disease.

>

>Duncan

>

>

>>

>> I take issue with grouping all MDs into the " evil " category. I am

>under an internist's care and she is working with me on thyroid and

>adrenal issues, among others. She has improved my life greatly with

>both prescription drugs (Armour thyroid) and supplements (she does

>not sell them, just strongly recommends them, including prescription-

>strength fish oil, coconut oil, etc.,). She also suggested I go to a

>rather low carb eating plan which has helped me tremendously.

>Really, there are times when a physician's care is necessary and life-

>saving. Yes there are over-prescribed medications and problems in

>the medical industry. But grouping all MD's together seems a bit

>hysterical. I once contracted a very serious infection. While I

>agree antibiotics are over prescribed in the US, the antibiotics I

>took arguably saved my life. Just because someone is under a

>doctor's care does not mean they are closed off to alternative

>medicine. There is a balance that can be struck in my!

>> opinion.

>>

>> Marie

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

FYI: Coca Cola used to have cocaine in it!

Marie

On Wednesday, September 10, 2008, at 04:13AM, " helen/zhebee " <zhebee@...>

wrote:

>

>

>I believe that many doctors do indeed want us to get well.

>I know my doctor did but he could not even conceive of

>alternative ways. It was sad really.

>

>Prescribing drugs and training doctors to do their bidding

>is a ploy of the drug companies who help to train these

>unsuspecting doctors. The blame lies in the training of

>these doctors.

>

>A doctor has nothing to lose if he loses a patient or two to

>alternative healing practitioners. Where I live I couldn't even

>find a doctor when my doctor retired. I still don't have a

>doctor. I would rather not have one but there might be a

>time I need one so I guess I have to keep looking. The

>doctors aren't worried about the selling of drugs and

>keeping us sick. It's the drug companies who take care

>of that. The doctors are just pawns and they don't even

>realize it.

>

>Many doctors are not accepting new patients so

>they don't care because even if a patient moves or goes

>to a different type of doctor, his bases are covered. For

>everyone who takes a few supplements and tries to follow

>a good diet for their health there are many who think their

>health is in drugs and almighty science.

>

>I know all about the food companies. They would put

>cocaine in their concoctions if they thought they could get

>away with it. So now they are settling for MSG and

>Splenda. It's all about Big Pharma, Big Food companies,

>Big Agriculture, Big Chemical companies and it is these

>who are killing us.

>

>Helen

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Re: prescr. drugs

>

>

>I agree with Alobar. In fact, the medical industry and the food

>industry work in synch with each other. The food industry creates the

>processed foods that make us sick and unhealthy and the medical

>industry pretends to help us with our food induced illnesses

>(diabetes) by prescribing drugs with toxic side effects. Bottom line

>is that the doctors don't make money unless they can keep us sick and

>the food industry obliges by feeding us food that keeps us sick so

>that we are always in need of the doctor and his poisonous drugs.

>phine

>

>P.S. Check out Weston Price and his research on the modern diet that

>is responsible for our degenerative diseases.

>

>http://www.mnwelldi r.org/docs/ history/biograph ies/price. htm

>

>

>> > Hi

>> >

>> > I agree.

>> >

>> > You cannot blame the doctors. They were brainwashed by the

>powers that

>> > have the money and they don't even know it is happening.

>> >

>> > Think about it. You are a young man or woman just out of high

>school. You

>> > have decided to become a doctor. That means study and lots of

>it. You are

>> > healthy and young so you don't even relate to the sick among us.

>If you have

>> > extra time, you probably aren't thinking about health. You are

>probably thinking

>> > about cars, girls and sports. After premed, you go to doctor's

>school and that

>> > means more studies again with little time for anything else.

>During this time, you

>> > might get married and when the studies are all over, you practice

>medicine. When

>> > did you have time to question alternatives? ?? You didn't.

>Anyway, med school

>> > did such a good job on you, you are convinced alternatives are

>all quackery.

>> >

>> > Little by little you find out that the " miracle drugs " they

>taught you about in med

>> > school don't really work all that well and some seem to be

>causing disease. You

>> > have the occasional patient who takes supplements and tries to

>tell you a little

>> > about it but you don't have time in the 6 minute visit to really

>hear what the

>> > patient was saying and anyway, weren't you taught it was all

>quackery? As time

>> > goes on and you get older, you might read the odd thing about a

>vitamin here

>> > and there that might be beneficial for some of your patients.

>You might even

>> > learn a few more things from your patients but they aren't

>doctors after all. If

>> > you practice medicine in Canada, you could even lose your license

>if you

>> > prescribed too many vitamins. And you don't have time to study

>your journals

>> > of medicine let alone a book about vitamins.

>> >

>> > By the time, you finally decide that you would like to learn more

>about these

>> > things, you are retired.

>> >

>> > Of course, this is a generalization. Not all doctors are not the

>same. Nor

>> > should we expect them to be. Even though some people need a hero and

>> > think doctors are gods, they are really only human beings after

>all and each

>> > one has a different personality. Some are analytic; others are

>happy just to

>> > go along with what they learned at med school. I have heard of some

>> > doctors, who when they found out how badly they had been duped, are

>> > extremely angry about it but they are far and few between.

>> >

>> > To find a doctor with an open mind is a rarity. Marie, you seem

>to have

>> > found such a doctor. Most doctors don't even ask one thing about

>diet, for

>> > example. Very few doctors are willing to think outside the box

>but it seems

>> > your doctor is doing just that. I wish I could have her for my

>own doctor.

>> > Even the naturopath doctors have an arsenal of products in their

>back office

>> > that influences their decisions.

>> >

>> > I don't do all my doctor says. Actually I do almost nothing he

>says. I just use

>> > him for the odd bit of information now and again or to do some

>tests. When

>> > I find out what is wrong, I go to my favorite health suppliers

>and get what I

>> > need. It is surprising how often I find the exact right thing.

>Of course, I am

>> > rarely sick since I take a lot of healthy stuff on a regular basis.

>> >

>> > Helen

>> >

>> >

>> >

>>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well said Duncan. I alluded to this in an ealrier post and invite some to read

the thinc.org website...

Frantz

From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...>

Subject: Re: prescr. drugs

Coconut Oil

Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 9:10 AM

Cholesterol does not indicate a disease condition and cholesterol

meds -- natural or drugs -- are not required. See the Cholesterol

Myths:

http://www.ravnskov .nu/cholesterol. htm

Duncan

[Guest guest]

I think I agree, if doctors don't learn to think outside their narrow

box, they are responsible for that, and for the harm they do. At any

rate, there ARE some doctors who have gone on from medical school to

continue to educate themselves, and some have broken with the

mainstream. I don't know what percentage they are of all physicians, but

there are some. I know people who have found one of these docs, but I've

never run into one. I really wonder how many doctors even read or

attempt to keep up at all with new info, let alone step out of

conventional medical thinking to see the maverick thinking that is out

there.

The entire system is designed to keep them in line, from medical courses

sponsored by a drug company and designed to feed Rxs into one company's

product (think Synthroid) to drug company reps and freebies, to

licensing boards that will censure or remove licences from rogue docs

who don't toe the main line. In the case of endocrinologists it should

be a crime, their main organization is financed mainly by the mfr of

synthroid. On some lists I've seen so much resentment of incompetent

endos that at least one person says " endo " stands for " end-o-life " .

In the UK at least one doctor surrendered his medical license rather

than prescribe as he was told to do.

sol

Alobar wrote:

> I do indeed blame the doctors. The buck stops with the physician.

> Docs who prescribe poisons out of ignorance are just as reprehensible

> as people who kill or maim on purpose.

[Guest guest]

Hi Duke

I knew you weren't accusing. I just thought you had

some mistaken information. Thanks for the input and

clarification.

Have a great day, too.

Helen

Re: [coconut_oil_ open_forum] prescr. drugs

coconut_oil_ open_forum

Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 8:05 AM

..

[Guest guest]

The only fair thing to do is to put the blame where it belongs

and that is with drug companies. Believe me, if you had been

brain-washed for nine years like the doctors have you would

have a hard time stepping out of the box yourself. Of course,

if you knew then what you know now, it would be easier for

you.

Not every doctor has the same personality as the other. Some

will and some won't. It is more the fault of Big Pharma. Doctors

are trained to be drug pushers and nearly every one of them

don't realize it.

Part of the problem with people is that they refuse to take any

responsibility for their own health. That's not you, of course,

or you wouldn't be on a group like this one.

Helen

Re: Re: prescr. drugs

I think I agree, if doctors don't learn to think outside their narrow

box, they are responsible for that, and for the harm they do. At any

rate, there ARE some doctors who have gone on from medical school to

continue to educate themselves, and some have broken with the

mainstream. I don't know what percentage they are of all physicians, but

there are some. I know people who have found one of these docs, but I've

never run into one. I really wonder how many doctors even read or

attempt to keep up at all with new info, let alone step out of

conventional medical thinking to see the maverick thinking that is out

there.

The entire system is designed to keep them in line, from medical courses

sponsored by a drug company and designed to feed Rxs into one company's

product (think Synthroid) to drug company reps and freebies, to

licensing boards that will censure or remove licences from rogue docs

who don't toe the main line. In the case of endocrinologists it should

be a crime, their main organization is financed mainly by the mfr of

synthroid. On some lists I've seen so much resentment of incompetent

endos that at least one person says " endo " stands for " end-o-life " .

In the UK at least one doctor surrendered his medical license rather

than prescribe as he was told to do.

sol

Alobar wrote:

> I do indeed blame the doctors. The buck stops with the physician.

> Docs who prescribe poisons out of ignorance are just as reprehensible

> as people who kill or maim on purpose.

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Marie

Helen

[coconut_oil_ open_forum] Re: prescr. drugs

>

>

>I agree that most MDs aren't " evil " ; it's more accurate to say they

>are as a group " unaware " , which is just as bad in their chosen field.

>I hate averaging these people though, there are good doctors and bad

>ones; the good ones support health, while the bad ones address only

>disease.

>

>Duncan

>

>

>>

>> I take issue with grouping all MDs into the " evil " category. I am

>under an internist's care and she is working with me on thyroid and

>adrenal issues, among others. She has improved my life greatly with

>both prescription drugs (Armour thyroid) and supplements (she does

>not sell them, just strongly recommends them, including prescription-

>strength fish oil, coconut oil, etc.,). She also suggested I go to a

>rather low carb eating plan which has helped me tremendously.

>Really, there are times when a physician's care is necessary and life-

>saving. Yes there are over-prescribed medications and problems in

>the medical industry. But grouping all MD's together seems a bit

>hysterical. I once contracted a very serious infection. While I

>agree antibiotics are over prescribed in the US, the antibiotics I

>took arguably saved my life. Just because someone is under a

>doctor's care does not mean they are closed off to alternative

>medicine. There is a balance that can be struck in my!

>> opinion.

>>

>> Marie

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for tips.

 

[Guest guest]

Marie

This may explain why things go better with coke...

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I invite you to join the 2 , Taking Lipitor and Hate It

and Stopped Out Statins.

To be honest, most doctors are misleading their patients into

believing that high cholesterol causes heart disease when in fact it

does not. When the arteries get weakened from use and the body is not

getting enough vitamin c plus other nutrients to make collagen to

strengthen the arteries, then the arteries become inflamed. When the

arteries become inflamed and has no nutrients to heal the

inflammation, then the body compensates by sending out cholesterol to

patch those inflamed cracks in the artery wall. The cholesterol it

sends out to patch the lesions is the sticky kind, called Lp(a).

Lp(a) is so sticky that the other harmless cholesterol (LDL) that is

passing by in the blood stream get stuck to it and when enough

cholesterol and other plaque material (plaque is made up of more than

just cholesterol) gets lodged in the inflammed area, it can cause a

blockage which then brings on the heart attack.

The doctors continue to mislead us because if they don't then the drug

companies can't make billions of dollars selling cholesterol lowering

drugs.

So bottom line here is take care of your inflamation by lowering your

C-reactive protein and homocysteine levels first via nutrition

(supplements and food) and avoid ALL processed foods. Stick to your

traditional diet since according to Dr. Weston Price in his book,

Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, ALL degenerative diseases

(diabetes, heart disease, etc) are due to eating the modern, unhealthy

(white man's) diet. phine (Hawaii)

>

> What do you guys think of policasanol as an alternative to the

statins.  Policasanol is made from the wax of sugarcanes.  My only

resistance in taking this is that the sugarcanes are fertilized and

heavily sprayed.  If the process the wax and take the beneficial

element and make it into policasanol, do you think the chemicals would

be washed away?  Policasanol acc to the websites i visited lowers

cholesterol and balances HDL/LDL too.

>  

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear phine and everybody,

 

Thank you for your reply.  My c-reactive protein and homocystein are normal.

 

Used to have fatty liver but got rid of it through vegetable juice and moringa

tea  with  ginger and cayenne, vco with turmeric powder.  My artheresclerosis in

my abdominal aorta is greatly reduced by taking nattokinase.  My diabetes is now

under control taking alpha lipoic acid (copied from Alobar) and chromium

polynicotinate (200mgs only) which allowed me to reduce diabetic drugs.  I 

still take my diabetes, hypertensive - drugs and lipitor.  My moring tea helps

keep bp at normal level too.  I will see my MD who is also an alternative doc

and will find out how i can get rid of all my pharma meds.

 

I urge you all to research moringa oleifera specially those issued  by pubmed

researchers and the articles by echo.org and tflj.org (trees for life journal). 

Zija juice  also lists moringa's  disease fighting nutrients.This tree is a

superfood with cancer fighting properties also.  Lowers blood  sugar and blood

pressure. Contains all 8 necessary amino acids body requires.  I've been taking

this tea for more than three years. Recently had thyroid checked and results are

normal.  Did not cause me hyper  or hypo - thyroid.  Some reported it normalized

hyperthyroidism.   But my chiro said many herbs work both ways, pro and anti,

like a balancing effect.

I am so amazed with this plant. Someone suggested combining  aloe vera

gel, moringa leaf powder (1tsp) and    pomegranate juice  and it becomes a

remedy for many ailments.    Also good for both hyperacidity and  deficiency in

hydrochloric acid.  Then take your vco after.  I can't see how any pathogen can

survive in that environment.  This must be a superantioxidant.  What do you guys

think?

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Good girl Mele,

Looks like you are doing very well especially using Moringa leaf tea.

Wow! The Filipinos in Hawaii call that Kalamungai. Those tress can

grow like weeds here. I even have a big tree right outside. Thanks for

reminding me how important those leaves are. I have nibbled on a few

young leaves and they taste spicey but now I need to get serious and

use those leaves regularly in a tea.

Do you dry the leaves? or use them fresh?

How much of ginger, cayenne, vco and turmeric powder do you use with

your tea?

phine

>

> Dear phine and everybody,

>  

> Thank you for your reply.  My c-reactive protein and homocystein are

normal.

>  

> Used to have fatty liver but got rid of it through vegetable juice

and moringa tea  with  ginger and cayenne, vco with turmeric powder. 

My artheresclerosis in my abdominal aorta is greatly reduced by taking

nattokinase.  My diabetes is now under control taking alpha lipoic

acid (copied from Alobar) and chromium polynicotinate (200mgs only)

which allowed me to reduce diabetic drugs.  I  still take my diabetes,

hypertensive - drugs and lipitor.  My moring tea helps keep bp at

normal level too.  I will see my MD who is also an alternative doc and

will find out how i can get rid of all my pharma meds.

>  

> I urge you all to research moringa oleifera specially those issued 

by pubmed researchers and the articles by echo.org and tflj.org (trees

for life journal).  Zija juice  also lists moringa's  disease fighting

nutrients.This tree is a superfood with cancer fighting properties

also.  Lowers blood  sugar and blood pressure. Contains all 8

necessary amino acids body requires.  I've been taking this tea for

more than three years. Recently had thyroid checked and results are

normal.  Did not cause me hyper  or hypo - thyroid.  Some reported it

normalized hyperthyroidism.   But my chiro said many herbs work both

ways, pro and anti, like a balancing effect.

> I am so amazed with this plant. Someone suggested combining  aloe

vera gel, moringa leaf powder (1tsp) and    pomegranate juice  and it

becomes a remedy for many ailments.    Also good for both hyperacidity

and  deficiency in hydrochloric acid.  Then take your vco after.  I

can't see how any pathogen can survive in that environment.  This must

be a superantioxidant.  What do you guys think?

>  

>

>  

>  

>

>

[Guest guest]

phine,

 

I use it as a tea.  I buy the frozen fresh leaves and boil around half a cup

leaves with lots of water (6 cups) and two inches of sliced ginger.  I add 1 tsp

cayenne powder and a pinch of turmeric powder just right before i drink it.  I

sometimes put one stick of cinnamon also when i boil the leaves.  I drink this

tea after each meal and snacks. The pinch of turmeric should amount to 1/4 tsp

total for the day, it is the maximum dosage allowed i think for the whole day.  

Turmeric also removes the aches and pains from diabetes neuropathy and

arthritis/rheumatism.  Also a good antioxidant.

 

I also ingest the capsules sometimes.   We also have a cup of the dried leaf

powder.  I understand from one employee of an organization who had samples from

the Philippines and other countries, that the Philippine moringa seems to be

more potent than those of others.  I think she tried them one at a time when she

got sick.

 

Our plant is still tiny and grows in a  pot.  i hope it would grow well. 

Longing to harvest leaves and pods and seeds.

 

You may just want to take the 1/4 tsp of turmeric in your vco. This is what i do

most of the time.  Turmeric is oil soluble so best taken with vco. 

 

[Guest guest]

First, I think the Policasonals do far more good than

the harm you might get from the chemicals you

mention and they do far better than any statin drugs.

At the same time, it is great you are asking questions,

and trying to find out more about the process.

I'd also like to point out that the drug companies are

very much involved with the educating of doctors. It

is the drug companies that are deliberately duping the

young doctors. I do not believe that most doctors

would deliberately dupe the public. Yes, some would

but most would not. It is that they have been duped

themselves.

Try to put yourself in the shoes of a young healthy man

or woman pursuing a career in medicine who has never

heard much about alternative medicine. I wrote about

this in a previous email and you can find it by going to

this groups home page. Put my ID (zhebee) in the Search

and you will find it. I won't repeat it here. Suffice it to

say it is the medical system (created by pharma) that is

misleading the medical system which is misleading the

the doctors. Do you know that the doctors get much

of their information from drug salespeople sent to them

by the drug companies and that these drug salespeople

have never been anywhere near a medical school? They

are trained by the drug companies to convince the

doctors to use the drugs. Sometimes you will know about

a new drug (via ads) before the doctor does.

Otherwise phine I am in complete agreement with you

and I liked your comments about arteries, LDL, etc.

Helen

Re: prescr. drugs

Hi ,

I invite you to join the 2 , Taking Lipitor and Hate It

and Stopped Out Statins.

To be honest, most doctors are misleading their patients into

believing that high cholesterol causes heart disease when in fact it

does not. When the arteries get weakened from use and the body is not

getting enough vitamin c plus other nutrients to make collagen to

strengthen the arteries, then the arteries become inflamed. When the

arteries become inflamed and has no nutrients to heal the

inflammation, then the body compensates by sending out cholesterol to

patch those inflamed cracks in the artery wall. The cholesterol it

sends out to patch the lesions is the sticky kind, called Lp(a).

Lp(a) is so sticky that the other harmless cholesterol (LDL) that is

passing by in the blood stream get stuck to it and when enough

cholesterol and other plaque material (plaque is made up of more than

just cholesterol) gets lodged in the inflammed area, it can cause a

blockage which then brings on the heart attack.

The doctors continue to mislead us because if they don't then the drug

companies can't make billions of dollars selling cholesterol lowering

drugs.

So bottom line here is take care of your inflamation by lowering your

C-reactive protein and homocysteine levels first via nutrition

(supplements and food) and avoid ALL processed foods. Stick to your

traditional diet since according to Dr. Weston Price in his book,

Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, ALL degenerative diseases

(diabetes, heart disease, etc) are due to eating the modern, unhealthy

(white man's) diet. phine (Hawaii)

>

> What do you guys think of policasanol as an alternative to the

statins. Policasanol is made from the wax of sugarcanes. My only

resistance in taking this is that the sugarcanes are fertilized and

heavily sprayed. If the process the wax and take the beneficial

element and make it into policasanol, do you think the chemicals would

be washed away? Policasanol acc to the websites i visited lowers

cholesterol and balances HDL/LDL too.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Helen;

 

I really appreciated your comments regarding the training that young med

students undergo from the pharmaceutical industry.  I also agree that any med

student who is studying traditional western medicine as opposed to

alternative/holistic modalities like Dr. Weil for example would not necessarily

have the time available to verify the information they are receiving.  Further,

it has been my experience that our medical students are simply not trained in

nutrition.  So terribly counter-intuitive when we are told we are what we eat. 

One other point I would like to make is that this same unfortunate phenomena

occurs in the veterinary field as well.  The pet food industry has a direct link

to vet students and vets in practice across the country.  The reps like the

pharm reps in medicine have a great and arguably undue influence on the health

and well being of our beloved four legged companions. 

 

I believe it is difficult to ask questions of our health care practitioners or

to present to them our ideas of what we feel is best.  Statin drug use is very

difficult I have found and yet forums like these, I believe, make the

conversations easier.  The support of like minded individuals can never be

overlooked.  I do not take it for granted.

 

I just purchased Dr. Fife's book on oil pulling.  I have shared it with a dear

cousin in California.  He and I have been using coconut oil for the past few

months and have enjoyed emailing each other and talking on the phone about our

results.  Another bonus in sharing positive movement forward with others. 

 

Peggy Cole Ashman

 

[Guest guest]

phine and Helen

 

Thanks for the encouragement to look for a natural way on lowering cholesterol.

 

You are right, new docs are told symptoms and what pharma products to

prescribe.  As you will notice, young docs don't even touch or feel where you

are hurting anymore.  They just write out the prescrip.

 

I am happy to have read a few weeks ago that some big medical schools are no

longer accepting financing from pharma companies so as not to influence the

future docs.

 

[Guest guest]

Hello Peggy

I appreciated your comments, too.

The medical system is a nightmare. I wish I had known

what I know now when I was 20 years old or younger.

I would avoid conventional medicine like the plague that

it is.

The drug companies must hate people like you and I and

those looking for another way to get well and who are

taking responsibility for their own health. They must

really hate these groups as it makes it so easy for

people to find out a lot that without the internet would

not be possible or at least difficult and more expensive.

When I first discovered how nutritional supplements

and diet could actually cause people to get well, I

could not get enough knowledge on this topic. I spent

oodles on books and magazines. Now with the internet

I can do research mostly for free. But I still like hard

copy rather than reading too much off of the computer.

Regarding veterinary medicine, it was not too long ago

(in the 70's and 80's) when the vets would treat animals

with natural means because there weren't that many

poisons, oh I mean medicines, available for animals.

Animals actually had it better than human beings. But

Big Pharma saw dollars signs in this field and now it is

almost impossible to have animals treated naturally. Vets

are now trained in the same way that doctors are trained

which means most of them will know nothing about diet

and supplements. etc.

Doctors and vets are not trained about nutrition because

it would be counter-productive to the aims of Big Pharma.

Why give a cheap vitamin that might make a dollar or two,

when a prescription drug makes 10 or 20 or 100 times more.

People will have to learn about natural means themselves

and that is not a bad thing. Some people who have had

cancer, for example, are glad they had it because in their

effort to find out more, they learned so much about other

health issues as well. They also learned how to stay well.

That's the key ....prevention!

When I first studied natural ways to health, I realized that

if these things helped people to get well, then if follows

that they must also help people to keep from getting sick

in the first place.

I also remember thinking that if the chemo drugs for

cancer were so good, why couldn't we be prescribed

smaller doses to prevent us from getting cancer in the

first place. Dumb idea, I know. I remember asking my

doctor about that and he said, " Oh, no. The drugs are too

toxic for that. " So then I wondered, " If these drugs cannot

be given to a well person, why would they give them to

a sick person. " I am surprised that the drug companies

haven't thought of a way to induce people to take some

drug or other as a preventative measure for the diseases

that scare people the most. It would be another way to

make money;that is the only thing these companies care

about.

Not only that, you can make a drug with side effects and

most people wouldn't even know they were sick from the

drug. Then they would be off to the doctor for yet

another drug to take care of this 'new disease'.

Another thing I find interesting is that a person will have a

number of different diseases and they are all treated

separately as if they are caused by different things but

of which most doctors don't know the cause. Then when

you learn about natural health, you learn that when a

body is in a diseased state, it is not necessarily a bunch

of diseases but the problems come from the same source.

Also the remedy in some cases comes out of one bottle of

herbs and/or nutrients, and a change in our diet such as

eliminating soda pop or other offending products and just

eating unprocessed foods. Of course, that's the simple

answer and I know that wellness is not necessarily that

easy for everyone but for many it can be.

There is so much that could be said but I've already said

enough.

Have a great and thankful day ....everyday!

Helen

Re: prescr. drugs

Helen;

I really appreciated your comments regarding the training that young med

students undergo from the pharmaceutical industry. I also agree that any med

student who is studying traditional western medicine as opposed to alternative/

holistic modalities like Dr. Weil for example would not necessarily have the

time available to verify the information they are receiving. Further, it has

been my experience that our medical students are simply not trained in

nutrition. So terribly counter-intuitive when we are told we are what we eat.

One other point I would like to make is that this same unfortunate phenomena

occurs in the veterinary field as well. The pet food industry has a direct link

to vet students and vets in practice across the country. The reps like the

pharm reps in medicine have a great and arguably undue influence on the health

and well being of our beloved four legged companions.

I believe it is difficult to ask questions of our health care practitioners or

to present to them our ideas of what we feel is best. Statin drug use is very

difficult I have found and yet forums like these, I believe, make the

conversations easier. The support of like minded individuals can never be

overlooked. I do not take it for granted.

I just purchased Dr. Fife's book on oil pulling. I have shared it with a dear

cousin in California. He and I have been using coconut oil for the past few

months and have enjoyed emailing each other and talking on the phone about our

results. Another bonus in sharing positive movement forward with others.

Peggy Cole Ashman

[Guest guest]

Hello again

Just one more thought.

I think we should do without health practitioners and

doctors unless we don't want to study for ourselves

or don't have time for it. Why should we have to

convince them of what we feel is best? It is our

body and in every case, it is legal for you to make

the decisions about what you will take into it or not.

Your doctor is trained to act as if he is the boss to

make sure you take your medicines. But in reality,

you are the boss of your body and you decide what

you will take. I used to go to my doctor to find out

what was wrong or have blood tests. I listened to

what he had to say and I asked questions and then

occasionally he would give me a prescription which

in most cases I would not fill. I would head for the

health store and pick up another book to learn what

I would need to do. Then I would use supplements.

Over the years of studying about natural health, I

had already learned what to eat and what not to eat.

I could tell you of one problem after another that I

beat not just for me but for people in my sphere of

influence with just supplements and improved diet

providing they did what I suggested and many did.

At any rate, if a doctor prescribes something for you,

you do not have to take it. It is your decision, not

his. I say this not just to you but to everyone who

might read it.

On the other hand, if you are on a medication(s)

now, you might want to go off of it slowly and you

might want to do it under his supervision. That, too,

is up to you to decide. If he won't cooperate, find

another doctor.

You mentioned sharing ideas with your friend. That's

one of the best ways to learn new things either by

listening to him or telling him of your discoveries.

This interaction also helps you to remember better

what you have learned.

I wish you a happy journey of discoveries.

Helen

Re: prescr. drugs

Helen;

I really appreciated your comments regarding the training that young med

students undergo from the pharmaceutical industry. I also agree that any med

student who is studying traditional western medicine as opposed to alternative/

holistic modalities like Dr. Weil for example would not necessarily have the

time available to verify the information they are receiving. Further, it has

been my experience that our medical students are simply not trained in

nutrition. So terribly counter-intuitive when we are told we are what we eat.

One other point I would like to make is that this same unfortunate phenomena

occurs in the veterinary field as well. The pet food industry has a direct link

to vet students and vets in practice across the country. The reps like the

pharm reps in medicine have a great and arguably undue influence on the health

and well being of our beloved four legged companions.

I believe it is difficult to ask questions of our health care practitioners or

to present to them our ideas of what we feel is best. Statin drug use is very

difficult I have found and yet forums like these, I believe, make the

conversations easier. The support of like minded individuals can never be

overlooked. I do not take it for granted.

I just purchased Dr. Fife's book on oil pulling. I have shared it with a dear

cousin in California. He and I have been using coconut oil for the past few

months and have enjoyed emailing each other and talking on the phone about our

results. Another bonus in sharing positive movement forward with others.

Peggy Cole Ashman

[Guest guest]

One thing I should mention while I think of it and

that is we need to be careful what we believe and

who we believe. As most of us have discovered,

we cannot trust our doctors often. Likewise, we

should not trust every Tom, Dick and Harry (or

Sally) who might come onto these groups to give

us information. Before we take it as gospel, we

need to do some research and see how it chalks

up against other information.

Some people will come on strong as if they know

but they might not. There are always some who

have a need to feel important and will say

anything in their effort to appear that way even

if their information is not entirely accurate.

If the product in question is just a supplement, then

it probably won't hurt anything to take it even if it

is not what you needed.

The beauty of almost all natural supplements, etc

is that there is not much chance of harm being done,

even with herbs, if taken in reasonable doses. As a

matter of fact, if the product does not help the

problem, it is probably adding something in the way

of health to your body in another way.

Helen

Re: Re: prescr. drugs

The drug companies must hate people like you and I and

those looking for another way to get well and who are

taking responsibility for their own health. They must

really hate these groups asit makes it so easy for

people to find out a lot that without the internet would

not be possible or at least difficult and more expensive.

..