A Rush to Medicate Young Minds

October 11, 2006

> That was my point, you choose to medicate because OTHER people are > the problem. You aren't clinically depressed! You are event > depressed. The events for us can be daily.

Others can be a source of frustration but how we react to them is ours. Some people are born with a gentic default that leads to an inability to overcome through willpower alone.

> I say often that I can > see how to fix problems but I get depressed, because it is a > daunting task. I agree with you, I say I just want to make everyone > smarter!! We all feel this way. The real issue is communication. > You are likely smart but you are misunderstood by 97. % of people. > They don't see intelligence. they see arrogance, they are > intimidated that you can hold that much info in your head or they > misprecieve you. What if you were raised with understanding, > perhaps a bridge to the communication that would make you understand > the NT's and the NT's understand you.

Communication involves a skill called listening which must be worked at in order to have understanding. Many assume that just because they can hear what is verbalized that they have been listening. All humans have faults but as the say goes, to err is human; to forgive is divine.

> That is my proposal to not > medicate my child. I plan to actually parent him and be what > parents are supposed to be GUIDES.

Just because a parent, hopefully well informed, chooses to give their child medication it does not mean they are not doing their best. Your choices are what you believe are in the best intrest of your child but other parents make decisions based on their child's needs, quite possibly the correct choice.

> We are supposed(parents)to > teach, support and believe in our children as is and in the future. > Parents NEED to put aside their own shit and pain as use it as a > resourse to prevent the insults reaching their children. TURN it > aroung without drugs. Get there last, to preserve life not deaden > it. I work to protect my child here in his home by having the nerve > to work to understand him. NOT make him understand me.

I respect your relentless efforts on your son's behalf and agree parents must think of the children first and foremost.

Kim

October 11, 2006

>

> RE Anxiety:

>(Am I becoming a wiki fanatic or what?!)

You, me, my son and tons of others. It's like my pastime of reading

the encylopedia has increased tenfold.

Kim

October 11, 2006

I am not saying medication is always unwarrented. I am saying 3 is

pretty young to introduce mind altering drugs. Part of what I was

saying is that many doctors say a thing, and it isn't their child.

They don't try to inform you, they spend time lulling you into blind

adherence. Most of us are likely to question authority by measure of

experience and ability to display real knowledge of a subject

October 11, 2006

Keep in mind that much of the government consists of former members of

the working class.

We voted them in there and we can vote them out.

If the government is opportunistic and deceitful (and I agree that it

is), then ask yourself why these people stay in office so long?

It's because most voters are too unintelligent to see what is going on

right in front of their faces. If they did, the corrupt people would

be voted out.

Also, the devil you know is better than the devil you don't in their

opinion, so bad people are kept in office.

That is why the government is messed up.

Tom

Administrator

" The government is simply more opportunistic and deceitful than the

working class. "

October 11, 2006

" Others can be a source of frustration but how we react to them is

ours. Some people are born with a gentic default that leads to an

inability to overcome through willpower alone. "

I disagree with these statements. Anyone that can make it through

three freinds killing themselves, two friends' cancer deaths, two

friends falling off cliffs and dying, and one drinking himself to

death in addition to suffering identity theft, an ex-wife and every

single girlfriend you ever had cheating on you, being beat up as a

kid from pre-kindergarten to high school, suffering harassment at

work and still smile at the world has something wrong with them.

Sometimes stuff happens in too quick a sequence for you to recover

and your psychology becomes permanently damaged.

There have been very few times in my life when I was happy, but on

those few times that I was, that is when major disasters such like

the above struck. So some people just have it more rough than

others. How you react to it has nothing to do with it.

Tom

Administrator

October 11, 2006

I myself would not have my children put on any type of medication at

any age unless I thought their lives depended on it. Some people may

have complete trust in the doctor and his opinions/decisions. I do not

think all doctors leave patients uninformed or lull them into doing

something that isn't in their best intrest based on what they know at

that time. I have never been to a visit where I was not asked if I

had any questions or felt I could not call later if any came to mind

after the visit.

It is true that many people won't question Dr.s, have the experience

to know what they are entitled refuse treatment/medication, or walk in

with any information. My mother realized this during her visits and

is grateful that I came with to take notes. I was also well informed

and had questions written down so that if anything was not covered I

would be able to ask. Parents can be shocked with diagnoses of their

child and find themselves unable to think at all. Do others feel

compelled to share information for this reason?

Kim

>

> I am not saying medication is always unwarrented. I am saying 3 is

> pretty young to introduce mind altering drugs. Part of what I was

> saying is that many doctors say a thing, and it isn't their child.

> They don't try to inform you, they spend time lulling you into blind

> adherence. Most of us are likely to question authority by measure

of

> experience and ability to display real knowledge of a subject

>

October 11, 2006

Which is worse, to vote for the lesser of two evils or to not vote at

all? Why don't good and moral people run for office? Or do they and

become just as corrupt.

Kim

>

> " The government is simply more opportunistic and deceitful than the

> working class. "

>

October 11, 2006

Maybe I'm using the wrong word by saying react. Typically most

people would be extremely distressed and depressed by the things

you've gone through. I would think it unhealthy if someone claimed

they didn't have these reactions. But what a person does when they

feel this way is a choice. Did you seek counseling for your hurt,

anger, and suffering? Was this not something you had control over?

We can not change other people, influence maybe, but must take

responsibility for our own behavior. I went through some rough s**t

too and blamed others when I was angry. I thought if they could

only see it my way, I could make them do it my way (what I think is

logical) things would get better. Well, nobody did and nobody was

going to! I had to make the change not in who I am but how I dealt

with the events occuring in my life.

Kim

>

> " Others can be a source of frustration but how we react to them is

> ours. Some people are born with a gentic default that leads to an

> inability to overcome through willpower alone. "

>

> I disagree with these statements. Anyone that can make it through

> three freinds killing themselves, two friends' cancer deaths, two

> friends falling off cliffs and dying, and one drinking himself to

> death in addition to suffering identity theft, an ex-wife and

every

> single girlfriend you ever had cheating on you, being beat up as a

> kid from pre-kindergarten to high school, suffering harassment at

> work and still smile at the world has something wrong with them.

>

> Sometimes stuff happens in too quick a sequence for you to recover

> and your psychology becomes permanently damaged.

>

> There have been very few times in my life when I was happy, but on

> those few times that I was, that is when major disasters such like

> the above struck. So some people just have it more rough than

> others. How you react to it has nothing to do with it.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

October 11, 2006

miminm wrote: " ... <snip> ... I know the effect of chemicals--> they

made my son Autistic, NEVER AGAIN, no more poison for babies. "

Your child was born autistic. That is his genetic make-up. Chemical

poisons may have exacerbated the problem, but your son was always

autistic.

Raven

October 11, 2006

I was relating to my son and how he reacts to situations that are

out of his control.

For instance, he came home from school yesterday and wanted a piece

of cake that my daughter had made on Sunday. It was had been eaten

and was gone. He became infuriated! He unleased the brunt of his

anger at my daughter who herself had only eaten two small squares.

Now, my reaction to his outburst could have been to yell or scream

at him for losing his temper. At one time I might have been that

bad of an example but I have learned to keep my voice low, calm, and

reasonable. Yet he persisted in his tantrum even when I explained

it was not my daughters fault the cake was gone and I apologized for

not saving him a piece. I did not know he hadn't had any at all.

This was not enough for him and his outburst continued, so I did

what I always do when reason is beyond him, I sent him to his room.

On his way to his room he kicked my daughters bookbag three times.

When he calmed down, I allowed him to come back to the kitchen. I

again (for the kagillionth time) told him it is ok to be angry but

it was not ok to yell, scream, or destroy other peoples property.

The point was heard but he did not agree. He bluntly told me that

he could yell, scream, and kick her bag when he feels angry, that I

could not expect him to act any other way. When I told him he would

not, he was sent back up to the room to think this over. Then he

came back down, told me he was sorry and that it's just soooooo hard

for him to hold it in when he feels like that.

We went over things he could have said such as, " I can't believe I

didn't get a piece of cake! I was really looking forward to that

after school! I am soooo ANGRY! " and " Since there isn't any cake

left, could I have a different snack? or I see there is a couple

cookies in the pantry, can I have those? " He told me that saying

those things made sense but he was still mad and he still blamed his

sister. How honest of him. Oh brother!

Just the night before our family had a therapy meeting and you can

see how much good it does. He is my youngest and at 10 years old, I

know he is capable of contolling his anger because he does at

school. He has told me that there are days he bottles up anger from

things that happens at school because he knows he would get " kicked

out " if he unleashed. He also knows that we won't kick him out of

the house for letting it all out and that I may not like his actions

but love him no matter what.

My point is, I'm trying to teach my children that some things happen

that make up feel some negative emotions but we need to practice

dealing with those feelings appropriately.

Kim

>

> " Others can be a source of frustration but how we react to them is

> ours. Some people are born with a gentic default that leads to an

> inability to overcome through willpower alone. "

>

October 11, 2006

miminm wrote: " ... <snip> ... That is my proposal to not medicate

my child. I plan to actually parent him and be what parents are

supposed to be GUIDES. We are supposed(parents)to teach, support

and believe in our children as is and in the future. Parents NEED

to put aside their own shit and pain as use it as a resourse to

prevent the insults reaching their children. TURN it aroung without

drugs. Get there last, to preserve life not deaden it. I work to

protect my child here in his home by having the nerve to work to

understand him ... <snip> ... "

I wish you well with this noble endeavour, mimi, but I also hope

that you leave the door open enough that, should your child need

medication in the future, you are able to see that this is perhaps

the best course to follow.

I am a very good parent as those who know me (NT and AS alike) will

tell you. However, my child's needs are such that he requires

minimal medication in order to function in the NT world and as such,

he has received minimal medication since he was 5.

It is not in the child's best interest to watch him become so over-

anxious about leaving the house that his eyes roll up into his head,

he convulses and then faints. At this point, all the good parenting

in the world is unable to help such a child cope effectively with

all the emotions and physical responses his body is going through.

I work my butt off to help my child and have sacrificed my career

for the past 11 years in order to provide my child with what he

needs most. I find it insulting that another person would think

that I have not devoted myself to guiding and parenting and raising

my child when indeed I have always put him first. That he needs

minimal medication is not a slight against me (or any other parent

who finds this is the best course of action along with continued

excellent parenting).

You say a parent should 'turn it around without drugs.' I would no

more expect a child with juvenile diabetes to eat sugar than I would

expect my child to cope with the NT world without help from me. And

just as some children with juvenile diabetes require medication,

Asplings sometimes require medication.

There is a fine line between responsible parenting that,

unfortunately, includes medication and abdicating parental

responsibilities.

miminm wrote: " Ex has actually told me GF is jealous of me, and she

with no training and no experience with any children wants to have

custody of my son. "

First off, until you hear it directly from your ex's girlfriend,

it's just hearsay that she is jealous of you.

Secondly, his girlfriend CANNOT have custody of your child. Only

you (sole) or he (sole) or both of you (joint) can have custody of

the child unless your ex's girlfriend adopts your son in which case

you would have to surrender all parental rights which I doubt you

would do. She is a non-issue; don't focus on her.

miminm wrote: " SHE does so now one might see why she is bad juju. "

I do not understand what the phrase " bad juju " means. Please

explain.

miminm wrote: " My ex like me is AS and he wants the conflict (her)

to leave him alone. "

This may not be an accurate perception of the situation. If your ex

believed that his girlfriend is the conflict, he would stop her

involvement in your son's life for the four hours per month that he

sees him.

miminm wrote: " Temple grandin said if you like scientific advances

thank an ASPIE. "

Not all scientific advances are because of Aspies and it is reverse

discrimination to claim this to be so. Many NTs have contributed

greatly to scientific advances. In fact, I know a few pretty

incredible NT scientists and you are selling them short by insisting

that all scientific advances are due to Aspie minds.

Raven

October 11, 2006

Really? You don't say. What is Absolute Truth? Many truths of the

past are now untruths, history is written by humans who err. I am

aware that information read anywhere can be cross refrenced but

thanks for the heads up about Wiki.

Kim

> >

> > >(Am I becoming a wiki fanatic or what?!)

> >

>

October 11, 2006

Kim wrote: " ... <snip> ... My point is, I'm trying to teach my

children that some things happen that make up feel some negative

emotions but we need to practice dealing with those feelings

appropriately. "

While I applaud you for doing this with your children (I do this as

well with Cub), you can hardly compare not having a piece a cake with

relentless 'bad luck' (for lack of a better word) that constantly

devastates a person's essence.

Even when NTs grieve a loss, they are not always able to 'control' the

manner in which they react emotionally and it is not seen as 'bad'

or 'inappropriate' but rather, it is seen by professionals as

a 'natural and healthy progression.'

Sometimes life just sucks.

Raven

October 11, 2006

Reread that one and it looks bad. Sorry for the sarcasm, completly

out of bounds.

>

> Really? You don't say. What is Absolute Truth? Many truths of the

> past are now untruths, history is written by humans who err. I am

> aware that information read anywhere can be cross refrenced but

> thanks for the heads up about Wiki.

>

> Kim

October 11, 2006

actually I know As is on the spectrum, but likely he would have been

AS, which is where he is headed. Perhaps this is a mincing of

words. I should more likely say that my son would have been at a

higher functioning level. Neurotoxins have an effect on anyone

introduced to them. I would have preferred that he had not been

exposed to toxins as a result of political currents and lobbists. I

am simply stating that harm is harm regardless of the inital state.

If he had one leg and an accident took his second leg I would still

hold a grudge if that second accident was due to greed and

rationalization. Why are you trying to peg me for something? What

do I make you feel guilty for?

Can I not say that poison is poison, that chemicals not present in

the body have an effect. Do you seriously believe that exposure to

environmental toxins has no effect on humans? We are organisms,

made from components naturally occuring in our environment and

synthetic chemicals mess with and occasionally help. But our

arrogance puts us at risk. Do you think humans are somehow

untouchable. If you scream things will be so.

It is always possible and probable that man commits crime against

another man.

I state simply that man made it more difficult for him to learn and

that we/he works to get him to an improved place. I don't know what

he may have been like without a neurotoxin, and it doesn't matter

what matters is progress. In any life. Do we not strive to make

our life, and the lives of others improved?? Why do you exsist?

Even AS people need others to have written books to read, movies to

watch, information to search. We may lament that our fellow humans

are mosly misguided, working toward goals for the sake of cash

rather than to simply know what can be known, and most of the time

we are alone in our quests but we quest because there is something

to quest for. Damned, dx's damned neurotixins, damned arrogance

that allows a superiority that believes that humanity needs

nothing. we are because something came before and our natterings we

be infintesimal to whatever comes next but if we blind ourselves to

damage and therefore never strive, they we may as well never have

drawn breath. I do not measure what is progress. we all are

programmed to be. Adversity is not something to lay down for.

Adversity makes us continue to strive.

All of us have arrived here from this adversity, otherwise we lie

down and cease.

People annoy me life isn't easy, sometimes I do nothing but think

but always I think! Others IQ may be higher than myown but if it

lays dormant that what does it matter?

October 11, 2006

I can't tell you what absolute truth is but some people claim that

what they read (Wikipedia, Reader's Digest, etc.) is absolute truth

and are not open to other information that may be valid.

Raven

> > >

> > > >(Am I becoming a wiki fanatic or what?!)

> > >

>

> > >

> >

>

October 11, 2006

miminm wrote: " actually I know As is on the spectrum, but likely he

would have been AS, which is where he is headed. "

He is what he is. Whether he was born HFA or born AS, he will be

what he is meant to be. He cannot be headed towards something he is

not when one is speaking of genetic predisposition.

miminm wrote: " ... <snip> ... I am simply stating that harm is

harm regardless of the inital state. If he had one leg and an

accident took his second leg I would still hold a grudge if that

second accident was due to greed and rationalization. Why are you

trying to peg me for something? What do I make you feel guilty for? "

I don't feel guilty for anything as I haven't done anything for

which I need to feel guilty, mimi.

I will tell you, however, that holding grudges [as per your example]

will never bring back anything that cannot be undone and a more open

approach to moving forward will do more good than holding a grudge

ever will.

Every event in life is neutral. The emotion you choose to attach to

it determines if the event is negative or positive. Holding grudges

is a negative.

mininm wrote: " ... <snip> ... Do you seriously believe that

exposure to environmental toxins has no effect on humans? "

I never wrote that. What I wrote was that regardless of chemical

exposure, what one is predisposed to is genetically determined. One

cannot CAUSE autism to occur through chemical poisoning but one can

certainly see the condition EXACERBATED because of chemical

poisoning.

It is no different than educating people that one cannot outgrow

allergies. Allergies go into remission because allergies are T-cell

mutations. Once mutated, a T-cell cannot unmutate.

Raven

October 11, 2006

It may not be my place to reply to this but will anyway.

>

> I would have preferred that he had not been

> exposed to toxins as a result of political currents and lobbists.

What was he exposed to miminm?

> Why are you trying to peg me for something? What

> do I make you feel guilty for?

I think Raven's only stated what she believes is true from your

previous posts and why do you think she feels guilty.

> Do you seriously believe that exposure to

> environmental toxins has no effect on humans? We are organisms,

> made from components naturally occuring in our environment and

> synthetic chemicals mess with and occasionally help. But our

> arrogance puts us at risk. Do you think humans are somehow

> untouchable. If you scream things will be so.

If we knew why you believe toxins were the cause of your son's

ailments, we might have a better understanding. I think most of us

are very aware of the effects of environmental hazzards and toxins

we are exposed to.

> Do we not strive to make our life, and the lives of others

> improved??

Some do and those who do not will always exsist amongst us.

> Why do you exsist?

A question that many wrestle with throughout their lives. It can

give us the feeling we are here for a purpose that will be revealed

when the time is right.

> Damned, dx's damned neurotixins, damned arrogance

> that allows a superiority that believes that humanity needs

> nothing.

Are you grouping society as a whole or is it just your anger in the

supposition that the majority are ignorant of the big picture?

> Adversity makes us continue to strive.

> All of us have arrived here from this adversity, otherwise we lie

> down and cease.

True, there are those who rise above and those who choose to quit.

> People annoy me life isn't easy, sometimes I do nothing but think

> but always I think!

It's good to express your thoughts and that your thinking about

larger issues run deep.

> Others IQ may be higher than my own but if it

> lays dormant that what does it matter?

Good point. The ability to test well or have a high IQ is not

relavent if a person's potential positive contributions are not

achieved.

Kim

October 11, 2006

yes I am angry impassioned determined, perhaps foolish and naive to

think that I can do everything on my own. you guys are mom's too and

understand. It is hard for me to express in print that what I say

is accurate because people cloud things from their own perspective.

I have been determined not to yeild because I am a plodding parent.

I feel that none of my ex, his gf or any of his family gave Ravi any

support I fought them all. they said he had no delay when he was

beating his head against the wall. The Dr's and my family said to

send him to a home. People said they would kill themselves if they

had to do what I did every day. And I fought and fought and fought.

It is nearly impossible to allow any of these demon being near my

son.

The gf is in an active role to prove herself better. Whatever on

the one hand but not with my child as the toy. For her own selfish

reasons she makes him some kind of prize. Ex and gf got pregnant

right after he left. She aborted (insisting all the while that she

loved children and wanted nothing more than to be a wife and

mother) Yet she ended the pregnancy because she couldn't tell her

father that she was preg. She made the decision but chanted to my

ex. " you made me kill my baby) BTW if that is NT UMM no thank you!

I am not jealous I hate what she stands for. She has displayed

selfishness, disregard, Negetive parenting skills and the ability to

put her desires over the needs of a child (she told ex they could

break up but he could never reconsile with me, and she put a picture

of her dog in his office and said that was their child) Once ex

compared her to me said if I ould know her we would be similar

(actuality that extends to the fact that we are both female and

vegan) and still that could be a stretch.

So look to me she is not the sort of person you trust with a child

that requirs extra attention. In addition all the while telling my

ex that I am a no good dirty arab and that he should take custody

from me.

Again he abandon us! not just left the house. When gf got preg he

came to me crying saying I should feel sorry for him because this

had all happened, while I was losing a battle for my own sanity.

New dx no support from either family, and father husband gone, no

sleep (ravi was up till midnight then when I got him to bed would

wake every 15 min.)

I know I haven't said all that before I just thought the facts I

revealed made sense. But none of you know me. Like Tom I had less

than stellar parents. Family members made sexual advances on me and

I tried to raise 2 husbands all while being the shoulder ever cried

on and used for support.

All that is ancient history but, it doesn't come through in e-mail.

I view all these people as idiots idiots that can negativly impact

my son by accident woopsie. No biggie for them. And I guess i took

abuse but I won't allow it dished onto a child.

I am sorry for my outbursts. No one life is simple or even as it

may seem. when I was a teen I wanted to be a scientist, instead i

became many things. wife mother therapist, worker bee

October 11, 2006