A Rush to Medicate Young Minds

[Guest guest]

Fortunately my experience was not like the one below. I didn't have

too much of a problem with my son, yes he did have some challenging

behaviours when younger (and can still have now, if he is pushed by

people who do not understand). It was the education system that had a

problem with my son and they referred him to a child assesment place.

His diagnosis was not a quick process though and involved lots of

meetings and assesments and also parenting skills.

The people who were most keen to push my son on medication were the

schools. I didn't agree with them and from my point of view, if I

could make the effort to help my son so could they - unfortunately

they didn't and as a result my son got kicked out of his first two

schools. The schools would not listen to me or professionals advice

btw.

After the diagnosis (and as soon as I suspected)it was not a case of

lets medicate him, but now I have a framework within which to work

in - I can research this and find better ways to deal with such.

Interestingly enough it was one of the mainstream schools that seemed

very concerned about how much money they could get for having my son

as a student, also the same school that wanted to medicate him :-(

>

> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-

> dyn/content/article/2006/10/06/AR2006100601391.html

>

> A Rush to Medicate Young Minds

>

> By J.

> Sunday, October 8, 2006; Page B07

>

> I have been treating, educating and caring for children for more

> than 30 years, half of that time as a child psychiatrist, and the

> changes I have seen in the practice of child psychiatry are

> shocking. Psychiatrists are now misdiagnosing and overmedicating

> children for ordinary defiance and misbehavior. The temper tantrums

> of belligerent children are increasingly being characterized as

> psychiatric illnesses.

>

> Using such diagnoses as bipolar disorder, attention-deficit

> hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and Asperger's, doctors are

justifying

> the sedation of difficult kids with powerful psychiatric drugs that

> may have serious, permanent or even lethal side effects.

>

> There has been a staggering jump in the percentage of children

> diagnosed with a mental illness and treated with psychiatric

> medications. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

reported

> that in 2002 almost 20 percent of office visits to pediatricians

> were for psychosocial problems -- eclipsing both asthma and heart

> disease. That same year the Food and Drug Administration reported

> that some 10.8 million prescriptions were dispensed for children --

> they are beginning to outpace the elderly in the consumption of

> pharmaceuticals. And this year the FDA reported that between 1999

> and 2003, 19 children died after taking prescription amphetamines --

> the medications used to treat ADHD. These are the same drugs for

> which the number of prescriptions written rose 500 percent from

1991

> to 2000.

>

> Some psychiatrists speculate that this stunning increase in

> childhood psychiatric disease is entirely due to improved

diagnostic

> techniques. But setting aside the children with legitimate mental

> illnesses who must have psychiatric medications to function

> normally, much of the increase in prescribing such medications to

> kids is due to the widespread use of psychiatric diagnoses to

> explain away the results of poor parenting practices. According to

> psychiatrist , quoted in the January/February issue

> of Psychotherapy Networker, " Many clinicians find it easier to tell

> parents their child has a brain-based disorder than to suggest

> parenting changes. "

>

> Parents and teachers today seem to believe that any boy who

wriggles

> in his seat and willfully defies his teacher's rules has ADHD.

> Likewise, any child who has a temper tantrum is diagnosed with

> bipolar disorder. After all, an anger outburst is how most parents

> define a " mood swing. " Contributing to this widespread problem of

> misdiagnosis is the doctor's willingness to accept, without

> question, the assessment offered by a parent or teacher.

>

> What was once a somber, heart-wrenching decision for a parent and

> something children often resisted -- medicating a child's mind --

> has now become a widely used technique in parenting a belligerent

> child. As if they were debating parental locks on the home computer

> or whether to allow a co-ed sleepover, parents now share notes with

> each other about whose child is taking what pill for which

diagnosis.

>

> These days parents cruise the Internet, take self-administered

> surveys, diagnose their children and choose a medication before

they

> ever set foot in the psychiatrist's office. If the first doctor

> doesn't prescribe what you want, the next one will.

>

> There was a time in the profession of child psychiatry when doctors

> insisted on hours of evaluation of a child before making a

diagnosis

> or prescribing a medication. Today some of my colleagues in

> psychiatry brag that they can make an initial assessment of a child

> and write a prescription in less than 20 minutes. Some parents tell

> me it took their pediatrician only five minutes. Who's the winner

in

> this race?

>

> Unfortunately, when a child is diagnosed with a mental illness,

> almost everyone benefits. The schools get more state funding for

the

> education of a mentally handicapped student. Teachers have more

> subdued students in their already overcrowded classrooms. Finally,

> parents are not forced to examine their poor parenting practices,

> because they have the perfect excuse: Their child has a chemical

> imbalance.

>

> The only loser in this equation is the child. It is the child who

> must endure the side effects of these powerful drugs and be

burdened

> unnecessarily with the label of a mental illness. Medicating a

> child, based on a misdiagnosis, is a tragic injustice for the

child:

> His or her only advocate is the parent who lacked the courage to

> apply appropriate discipline.

>

> Well-intentioned but misinformed teachers, parents using the

> Internet to diagnose their children, and hurried doctors are all a

> part of the complex system that drives the current practice of

> misdiagnosing and overmedicating children. The solution lies in the

> practice of good, conscientious medicine that is careful, thorough

> and patient-centered.

>

> Parents need to be more careful with whom they entrust their

child's

> mental health care. Doctors need to take the time to understand

> their pediatric patients better and have the courage to deliver the

> bad news that sometimes a child's disruptive, aggressive and

defiant

> behavior is due to poor parenting, not to a chemical imbalance such

> as bipolar disorder or ADHD.

>

> The writer is a child and adolescent psychiatrist in California and

> the author of " Should You Medicate Your Child's Mind? "

>

[Guest guest]

" And therein lies the rub ... parents who want a perfect excuse, will

look for the excuse that brings with it pity. When I hear people

whine that their lives are cursed because they 'have' to raise a

disabled child (regardless of the disability), I am annoyed. "

Oh and that pity is annoying. I hate the 'oh I'm sorry' when I tell

people my son has HFA and the same people also say sorry if I tell

them I am AS. I always instantly say - don't be sorry my son is great

and most of the time I am happy being AS as it does have positives :-

) I am always very pleased when I come across those whose immediate

reaction is not the 'oh I'm sorry' :-) Those that are able to see

that all children are wonderful and don't belittle people via labels.

>

> The article stated: " Using such diagnoses as bipolar disorder,

> attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and Asperger's,

> doctors are justifying the sedation of difficult kids with powerful

> psychiatric drugs that may have serious, permanent or even lethal

> side effects. "

>

> I absolutely agree!

>

> The article states: " ... <snip> ... much of the increase in

> prescribing such medications to kids is due to the widespread use

of

> psychiatric diagnoses to explain away the results of poor parenting

> practices. "

>

> I must agree with this as well. Too often, parents and medical

> practitioners rely too much on medication. Parenting is a job not

a

> chore. It is an investment not an expense. It should never be

> undertaken lightly or regarded as a footnote.

>

> The article states: " ... <snip> ... These days parents cruise the

> Internet, take self-administered surveys, diagnose their children

> and choose a medication before they ever set foot in the

> psychiatrist's office. If the first doctor doesn't prescribe what

> you want, the next one will. "

>

> I have seen this first hand. I have watched parents at my child's

> school compare one or two 'similarities' between their child and my

> child and state conclusively that based on this comparison, their

> child is definitely AS. Additionally, I have seen parents read a

> few things on AS, misinterpret the information (one parent I have

> read alleges repeatedly that those with AS are consciously cruel

> towards others in order to maintain the upper hand and push the

> envelope as malicious control freaks) and insist that the school

> board psychologist concur with the parents' diagnosis,

circumventing

> entirely a medical practitioner with experience with ASDs.

>

> The article states: " ... <snip> ... There was a time in the

> profession of child psychiatry when doctors insisted on hours of

> evaluation of a child before making a diagnosis or prescribing a

> medication. Today some of my colleagues in psychiatry brag that

they

> can make an initial assessment of a child and write a prescription

> in less than 20 minutes. Some parents tell me it took their

> pediatrician only five minutes. "

>

> It took a medical team TWO YEARS to conclude that my child was AS.

> During that time, every possible situation was explored from

> considering that he was just a very angry child (due to his

father's

> abandonment of him) through to the possibility of childhood

> schizophrenia. It was only after TWO YEARS of testing that the

> definitive diagnosis of AS was made. Yes, there were a number of

co-

> morbidities involved (all of which could have been short-changed

> diagnoses if the testing had not been as exhaustive as it was)

> however the bottom line was, it was absolutely AS as the basis of

my

> child's differentness.

>

> I can assure you that this sort of complete testing cannot be done

> in 20 minutes and no one can know another person in that period of

> time either.

>

> In the previous decade, ADHD was the buzz diagnosis with everyone

> from parents to teachers to pediatricians tossing the diagnosis

> about with callous disregard for the fact that many of those

> allegedly ADHD children were merely spirited children ... as

> children with great imaginations oftentimes are!

>

> The article states: " ... <snip> ... The schools get more state

> funding for the education of a mentally handicapped student.

> Teachers have more subdued students in their already overcrowded

> classrooms. Finally, parents are not forced to examine their poor

> parenting practices, because they have the perfect excuse: Their

> child has a chemical imbalance. "

>

> And therein lies the rub ... parents who want a perfect excuse,

will

> look for the excuse that brings with it pity. When I hear people

> whine that their lives are cursed because they 'have' to raise a

> disabled child (regardless of the disability), I am annoyed.

Having

> a child entails certain responsibilities and if one is not prepared

> to shoulder those responsibilities, they have no right to agree to

> shoulder those responsibilities.

>

> Raven

>

[Guest guest]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/06/AR2006100601391.\

html?referrer=emailarticle

The Washington Post

A Rush to Medicate Young Minds

By J.

Sunday, October 8, 2006

I have been treating, educating and caring for children for more than 30 years,

half of that time as a child psychiatrist, and the changes I have seen in the

practice of child psychiatry are shocking. Psychiatrists are now misdiagnosing

and overmedicating children for ordinary defiance and misbehavior. The temper

tantrums of belligerent children are increasingly being characterized as

psychiatric illnesses.

Using such diagnoses as bipolar disorder, attention-deficit hyperactivity

disorder (ADHD) and Asperger's, doctors are justifying the sedation of difficult

kids with powerful psychiatric drugs that may have serious, permanent or even

lethal side effects.

There has been a staggering jump in the percentage of children diagnosed with a

mental illness and treated with psychiatric medications. The Centers for Disease

Control and Prevention reported that in 2002 almost 20 percent of office visits

to pediatricians were for psychosocial problems -- eclipsing both asthma and

heart disease. That same year the Food and Drug Administration reported that

some 10.8 million prescriptions were dispensed for children -- they are

beginning to outpace the elderly in the consumption of pharmaceuticals. And this

year the FDA reported that between 1999 and 2003, 19 children died after taking

prescription amphetamines -- the medications used to treat ADHD. These are the

same drugs for which the number of prescriptions written rose 500 percent from

1991 to 2000.

Some psychiatrists speculate that this stunning increase in childhood

psychiatric disease is entirely due to improved diagnostic techniques. But

setting aside the children with legitimate mental illnesses who must have

psychiatric medications to function normally, much of the increase in

prescribing such medications to kids is due to the widespread use of psychiatric

diagnoses to explain away the results of poor parenting practices. According to

psychiatrist , quoted in the January/February issue of

Psychotherapy Networker, " Many clinicians find it easier to tell parents their

child has a brain-based disorder than to suggest parenting changes. "

Parents and teachers today seem to believe that any boy who wriggles in his seat

and willfully defies his teacher's rules has ADHD. Likewise, any child who has a

temper tantrum is diagnosed with bipolar disorder. After all, an anger outburst

is how most parents define a " mood swing. " Contributing to this widespread

problem of misdiagnosis is the doctor's willingness to accept, without question,

the assessment offered by a parent or teacher.

What was once a somber, heart-wrenching decision for a parent and something

children often resisted -- medicating a child's mind -- has now become a widely

used technique in parenting a belligerent child. As if they were debating

parental locks on the home computer or whether to allow a co-ed sleepover,

parents now share notes with each other about whose child is taking what pill

for which diagnosis.

These days parents cruise the Internet, take self-administered surveys, diagnose

their children and choose a medication before they ever set foot in the

psychiatrist's office. If the first doctor doesn't prescribe what you want, the

next one will.

There was a time in the profession of child psychiatry when doctors insisted on

hours of evaluation of a child before making a diagnosis or prescribing a

medication. Today some of my colleagues in psychiatry brag that they can make an

initial assessment of a child and write a prescription in less than 20 minutes.

Some parents tell me it took their pediatrician only five minutes. Who's the

winner in this race?

Unfortunately, when a child is diagnosed with a mental illness, almost everyone

benefits. The schools get more state funding for the education of a mentally

handicapped student. Teachers have more subdued students in their already

overcrowded classrooms. Finally, parents are not forced to examine their poor

parenting practices, because they have the perfect excuse: Their child has a

chemical imbalance.

The only loser in this equation is the child. It is the child who must endure

the side effects of these powerful drugs and be burdened unnecessarily with the

label of a mental illness. Medicating a child, based on a misdiagnosis, is a

tragic injustice for the child: His or her only advocate is the parent who

lacked the courage to apply appropriate discipline.

Well-intentioned but misinformed teachers, parents using the Internet to

diagnose their children, and hurried doctors are all a part of the complex

system that drives the current practice of misdiagnosing and overmedicating

children. The solution lies in the practice of good, conscientious medicine that

is careful, thorough and patient-centered.

Parents need to be more careful with whom they entrust their child's mental

health care. Doctors need to take the time to understand their pediatric

patients better and have the courage to deliver the bad news that sometimes a

child's disruptive, aggressive and defiant behavior is due to poor parenting,

not to a chemical imbalance such as bipolar disorder or ADHD.

The writer is a child and adolescent psychiatrist in California and the author

of " Should You Medicate Your Child's Mind? "

++

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[Guest guest]

This is my frustartion in practise. medication is only to mask

trouble not a cure. A CURE is something that can work on it's own

bodies have the power to heal as do minds. Food allergy all avenues

should be exhausted before medication should be utilized. Once again

the doctors were suprised by my childs progress made through a

multidecipline approach. One of which was to alter and remove

allergans. This is done to allow the body to do what it does best

heal itself. Parents (myself included) do have to parent in a

conscience way. (I spell horribly) cause and effect. lesson to

acceptance and temperence. we don't open heads and alter behavior.

It takes work and work is something todays's society frowns on in

terms of parenting. Determined compassionate parents are disregarded

in the courts, the doctors office and at school. Hockey gets more

praise. I am not in it for the praise or to have a quiet child I am

in it for my child to achieve independance; something we take for

granted. I don't want to mask his behavior I want to get through it

in favor of behavior that works. mimi

[Guest guest]

I agree I don't look for pity. I want results, on how to make the

best progress my son can mAKe. I don't want the DX to define him or

his abilities I want it as a reference on how he may intreperate

information so I can give it the way he can take it in. My son had

all the " classic " signs of Autism. agressive behavior, anger,

screaming, constant night waking. I would be pissed to if food hurt

me and I couldn't tell anyone. He WAS non-verbal, a toe walker.

stimming on my hair(still does this a little) I say all this and I

want no sympathy!!!!!!!!! I want qualified people!!!! to bring him

the world. Most of the behavior is frustration of not being able to

understand or being understood. I have the nerve to want to foster

communication. Me a parent. I want sympathy when I deal with schools

courts, doctors, (because I have to deal with them not my son). all

those people that have a say and get in the way of my child's

cognitive progress. All the past behaviors I described are gone!!!

That has taken work and an effort to heal and communicate. mimi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/8/2006 1:20:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, drumthis2001@... writes:

There are many factors which contribute to any general lack of interest in school or other so named disorders. Pink Floyd said it well when they said, "No dark sarcasm in the classroom, teachers leave those kids alone. Many teachers are in their job without having any passion. Rather, it's job security. Their primary virtues are being able to control their outward appearance that maintains a sane composure all the while reading out of a textbook and mechanically going through grades.

I've long said that is the problem in the US especially. Public schools are not about teaching the kids and haven't been since at least Jimmy when the Department of Education was make a cabinet level post (a reward for turning out the teacher vote for him). The majority of education spending goes to the bureaucrats who never see the inside of a classroom and lots of other "support" elements. Less than a third actually goes to teachers and teaching materials. Aside from that, the main thrust of the teachers is support for the union and bureaucracy which guaranteed even the worst teachers jobs for life. Any threat to this cushy system is met with frenetic opposition. Just look at how the teachers act about school choice and accountability.

It should also come as little surprise that most teachers and virtually all the bureaucrats have their kids in private schools.

But the drug issue is worrying. I think the main problem is that kids are overstimulated. They have 24 hour TV, wild video games, sports, etc. They never have any downtime, time to unwind. They are hyper because their brains are overloaded and never get to relax. They are cranky and mean because they never get enough sleep. They also act out because the parents refuse to be parents and set limits and enforce rules. The worst act like they do because they know that no matter what they do, their parents will take their side against the teachers or anyone else.

The other problem is the sales reps. There are no requirements for being a drug sales rep in the US, unlike a number of other countries where they have to have a medical degree of some kind. Over here, they have been signing up models and such to do the selling. Also included are gifts like lunches with the pretty rep, vacations, etc., (just how much, etc., with the rep is an open debate). There are rumors that there are even rewards for prescribing certain amounts of drugs, just like how HMOs would pay doctors to deny treatment and tests.

This is all easy enough to fix.

1.) a law that all drug reps must have some medical certification, a nursing degree at the very least.

2.) Require drug companies to spend no more than half of their research budget on advertising, soliciting and political lobbying. Currently the drug companies spend more on advertising than they do on research. Never was in favor of allowing them to advertise prescription drugs.

3.) Lower trade barriers to drug imports from countries with safe manufacturing processes. Currently the US has a virtual socialist health care system for the world whereby Americans pay the very high prices for drugs but those same drugs are sold overseas at a fraction of the cost. Yes this might hurt future development of medicines, but take the previous two steps as well and it should balance out.

This year the 4 big drug companies posted a higher profit than the next 100 companies combined, that is from the list of big companies based on the stock market. This is money left after all costs like drug research and so on are taken out of the gross income. I'm not suggesting a windfall profit tax or anything because that would only encourage them to move overseas, sort of like happened to Europe a decade or so ago. Granted they might try to run as well if the measures I suggested are implemented, but it would be harder for them to argue against spending less on advertising than on R & D than it would be against higher taxes.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/8/2006 1:20:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, drumthis2001@... writes:

There are many factors which contribute to any general lack of interest in school or other so named disorders. Pink Floyd said it well when they said, "No dark sarcasm in the classroom, teachers leave those kids alone. Many teachers are in their job without having any passion. Rather, it's job security. Their primary virtues are being able to control their outward appearance that maintains a sane composure all the while reading out of a textbook and mechanically going through grades.

I've long said that is the problem in the US especially. Public schools are not about teaching the kids and haven't been since at least Jimmy when the Department of Education was make a cabinet level post (a reward for turning out the teacher vote for him). The majority of education spending goes to the bureaucrats who never see the inside of a classroom and lots of other "support" elements. Less than a third actually goes to teachers and teaching materials. Aside from that, the main thrust of the teachers is support for the union and bureaucracy which guaranteed even the worst teachers jobs for life. Any threat to this cushy system is met with frenetic opposition. Just look at how the teachers act about school choice and accountability.

It should also come as little surprise that most teachers and virtually all the bureaucrats have their kids in private schools.

But the drug issue is worrying. I think the main problem is that kids are overstimulated. They have 24 hour TV, wild video games, sports, etc. They never have any downtime, time to unwind. They are hyper because their brains are overloaded and never get to relax. They are cranky and mean because they never get enough sleep. They also act out because the parents refuse to be parents and set limits and enforce rules. The worst act like they do because they know that no matter what they do, their parents will take their side against the teachers or anyone else.

The other problem is the sales reps. There are no requirements for being a drug sales rep in the US, unlike a number of other countries where they have to have a medical degree of some kind. Over here, they have been signing up models and such to do the selling. Also included are gifts like lunches with the pretty rep, vacations, etc., (just how much, etc., with the rep is an open debate). There are rumors that there are even rewards for prescribing certain amounts of drugs, just like how HMOs would pay doctors to deny treatment and tests.

This is all easy enough to fix.

1.) a law that all drug reps must have some medical certification, a nursing degree at the very least.

2.) Require drug companies to spend no more than half of their research budget on advertising, soliciting and political lobbying. Currently the drug companies spend more on advertising than they do on research. Never was in favor of allowing them to advertise prescription drugs.

3.) Lower trade barriers to drug imports from countries with safe manufacturing processes. Currently the US has a virtual socialist health care system for the world whereby Americans pay the very high prices for drugs but those same drugs are sold overseas at a fraction of the cost. Yes this might hurt future development of medicines, but take the previous two steps as well and it should balance out.

This year the 4 big drug companies posted a higher profit than the next 100 companies combined, that is from the list of big companies based on the stock market. This is money left after all costs like drug research and so on are taken out of the gross income. I'm not suggesting a windfall profit tax or anything because that would only encourage them to move overseas, sort of like happened to Europe a decade or so ago. Granted they might try to run as well if the measures I suggested are implemented, but it would be harder for them to argue against spending less on advertising than on R & D than it would be against higher taxes.

[Guest guest]

AS does define to an extent. It is a major part of us. However, it doesn't have to be all negative. Yes, there are problems associated with AS, but by and large they can be dealt with by coping strategies and changes in environment. Sometimes medication may still be needed. I take a very low dose of Paxil to keep my anxiety under control, but even then I don't take it every day. Usually every other day is enough and then I can step up the dosage if I am having a very tough time with something, which the doctor has OKed since he knows I won't overdo it.

Medication might be a first step. What worked for me was a higher dose for a while to get things under control and then stepping back to lower doses. This allowed me to get calmed down and work on coping strategies. Then I staged back to a level where the edge is taken off the anxiety and all, but I feel it enough to know to work on the coping strategies. Today I only take the meds to keep a low level in my system so it is quicker to build back up to medicinal levels if there is a major problem, since it take at least 2 weeks to build up from a cold start.

It would also help to begin with a low dose and build up in the beginning. This is what I did and it worked. Rather than piling on the meds, I built up to it so I could understand how the meds were going to affect me. A couple of them I didn't like the effects, so I switched to something else. The doctor didn't always like this, but I told him that he wasn't the one dealing with the side effects, I was, and if I didn't like it and there were options, we were going to try the options.

So, I think meds have their place in treatment, but they aren't the end all be all miracle cure, especially not for mental issues.

[Guest guest]

The part about bad parenting being described as mental faults of the children is spot on. Parents these days are too busy and many are too self-absorbed to be bothered with real parenting. If throwing money and toys at the kid doesn't shut them up, then push pills down their throats until they do.

Now some kinds no doubt need them, but those would be few. Others can benefit from alternatives, like the ADHD kid my mother taught one year who was medicated with a cup of coffee in the morning (it worked very well). Other kids just need more physical exercise and most simply need to have the TV, phones and toys turned off for a while and be allowed to have some resting time.

Fewer activities would help too. Parents are run ragged hauling the kids to dance class, soccer, karate, football, etc., ad nauseum. It runs the kids ragged too. Let the kids pick one activity that they like the most and focus on that. That would relieve a lot of stress on everyone and make life more bearable.

Failing that, if the kid won't calm down, have them do a bunch of push ups and other calisthenics. That'll burn the energy in a hurry and be good for them.

[Guest guest]

Magnificent! Here again you made absolutely clear what it is about. It's about getting involved and being assertive. The spirit to overcome all the undisciplined, indifferent (people) obstacles. Everything you said makes perfect sense. I also agree that I have to stay away from pity. Self-pity causes a loss of vital energy and therefore a loss of communication with the higher order. miminm <mnmimi@...> wrote: I agree I

don't look for pity. I want results, on how to make the best progress my son can mAKe. I don't want the DX to define him or his abilities I want it as a reference on how he may intreperate information so I can give it the way he can take it in. My son had all the "classic" signs of Autism. agressive behavior, anger, screaming, constant night waking. I would be pissed to if food hurt me and I couldn't tell anyone. He WAS non-verbal, a toe walker. stimming on my hair(still does this a little) I say all this and I want no sympathy!!!!!!!!! I want qualified people!!!! to bring him the world. Most of the behavior is frustration of not being able to understand or being understood. I have the nerve to want to foster communication. Me a parent. I want sympathy when I deal with schools courts, doctors, (because I have to deal with them not my son). all those people that have a say and get in the way of my child's

cognitive progress. All the past behaviors I described are gone!!! That has taken work and an effort to heal and communicate. mimi

Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

The recommended dosage for my St. 's Wort is three pills a day.

One pill a day worked for me. I eased myself off of them, and quit

them for a while, but the depression came back. Now one pill every

other day seems to do the job.

If meds could be used in the same manner, I believe things would be

much better for those who use them.

Tom

Administrator

Re: Re: A Rush to Medicate Young Minds

AS does define to an extent. It is a major part of us. However, it

doesn't have to be all negative. Yes, there are problems associated

with AS, but by and large they can be dealt with by coping

strategies and changes in environment. Sometimes medication may

still be needed. I take a very low dose of Paxil to keep my anxiety

under control, but even then I don't take it every day. Usually

every other day is enough and then I can step up the dosage if I am

having a very tough time with something, which the doctor has OKed

since he knows I won't overdo it.

Medication might be a first step. What worked for me was a higher

dose for a while to get things under control and then stepping back

to lower doses. This allowed me to get calmed down and work on

coping strategies. Then I staged back to a level where the edge is

taken off the anxiety and all, but I feel it enough to know to work

on the coping strategies. Today I only take the meds to keep a low

level in my system so it is quicker to build back up to medicinal

levels if there is a major problem, since it take at least 2 weeks

to build up from a cold start.

It would also help to begin with a low dose and build up in the

beginning. This is what I did and it worked. Rather than piling on

the meds, I built up to it so I could understand how the meds were

going to affect me. A couple of them I didn't like the effects, so I

switched to something else. The doctor didn't always like this, but

I told him that he wasn't the one dealing with the side effects, I

was, and if I didn't like it and there were options, we were going

to try the options.

So, I think meds have their place in treatment, but they aren't the

end all be all miracle cure, especially not for mental issues.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/10/2006 12:34:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

The recommended dosage for my St. 's Wort is three pills a day. One pill a day worked for me. I eased myself off of them, and quit them for a while, but the depression came back. Now one pill every other day seems to do the job.If meds could be used in the same manner, I believe things would be much better for those who use them.TomAdministrator

It looks like we came to the same conclusion. The full dose of Paxil that the doctor had me on made me a zombie sleeping at least 16 hours per day and the rest of the time was in a haze, though it did knock down the anxiety and depression. I stopped taking it for a time too, but then when something came up the anxiety was a real problem. Like you, I have found that taking the meds about every other day works.

[Guest guest]

" Other kids just need more physical exercise and most simply need to

have the TV, phones and toys turned off for a while and be allowed

to have some resting time. "

Now this has been proven to work in some (many) cases. Vigourous

exercise will burn off the excess energy that some children have and

generally most (not all) children have a lot of energy.

Being allowed to burn some of that energy off before classes start

has been proven to help many children be more settled and able to

focus on lessons. Interestingly enough at a previous school my son

attended they were using as a form of punishment stopping my son

having play out time - I warned them about such explaining he would

be unable to burn excess energy off and that there were better forms

of punishment available - like explaining he would not get computer

time etc.

I also agree with the 'down time', sometimes my son requires quiet

time away from stimulation - this does not mean being locked in a

room as one school did :-( that certainly was counter productive. It

means sometimes if he is finding a situation overwhelming he needs to

move away from it, find a quiet area for a while to re-charge. At

home if he needs such he turns on classical music and relaxes for a

while - infact he often goes to sleep listening to classical music.

In my son's case and many other children classical music really can

help and often does work, when he was younger he had a lot of

difficulties sleeping until we tried the classical music - I know of

other parents that have had success with such too.

>

> The part about bad parenting being described as mental faults of

the

> children is spot on. Parents these days are too busy and many are

too self-absorbed

> to be bothered with real parenting. If throwing money and toys at

the kid

> doesn't shut them up, then push pills down their throats until they

do.

>

> Now some kinds no doubt need them, but those would be few. Others

can

> benefit from alternatives, like the ADHD kid my mother taught one

year who was

> medicated with a cup of coffee in the morning (it worked very

well). Other kids

> just need more physical exercise and most simply need to have the

TV, phones

> and toys turned off for a while and be allowed to have some

resting time.

>

> Fewer activities would help too. Parents are run ragged hauling the

kids to

> dance class, soccer, karate, football, etc., ad nauseum. It runs

the kids

> ragged too. Let the kids pick one activity that they like the most

and focus on

> that. That would relieve a lot of stress on everyone and make life

more

> bearable.

>

> Failing that, if the kid won't calm down, have them do a bunch of

push ups

> and other calisthenics. That'll burn the energy in a hurry and be

good for

> them.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have a lot of problems with anxiety - mostly relating to what is

going on in my life - i.e circumstances. The doctor has me on a low

dose anti anxiety citalopram. How much this helps I am uncertain of -

I do know when the doctor told me to up the dose it had bad side

affects that I could not live with.

Now the doctor says she is limited to what she can prescribe as she

is not a psychiatrist and I tend to avoid psychiatrists as most tend

to just push medication in my opinion. The doctor wants me to

continue taking this low dose until I can get some support regarding

AS - but this feels like catch 22 - it is extremely hard to access

help/support for AS where I live.

>

> AS does define to an extent. It is a major part of us. However, it

doesn't

> have to be all negative. Yes, there are problems associated with

AS, but by and

> large they can be dealt with by coping strategies and changes in

> environment. Sometimes medication may still be needed. I take a

very low dose of Paxil

> to keep my anxiety under control, but even then I don't take it

every day.

> Usually every other day is enough and then I can step up the

dosage if I am

> having a very tough time with something, which the doctor has OKed

since he knows

> I won't overdo it.

>

> Medication might be a first step. What worked for me was a higher

dose for a

> while to get things under control and then stepping back to lower

doses. This

> allowed me to get calmed down and work on coping strategies. Then

I staged

> back to a level where the edge is taken off the anxiety and all,

but I feel it

> enough to know to work on the coping strategies. Today I only take

the meds

> to keep a low level in my system so it is quicker to build back up

to

> medicinal levels if there is a major problem, since it take at

least 2 weeks to

> build up from a cold start.

>

> It would also help to begin with a low dose and build up in the

beginning.

> This is what I did and it worked. Rather than piling on the meds, I

built up to

> it so I could understand how the meds were going to affect me. A

couple of

> them I didn't like the effects, so I switched to something else.

The doctor

> didn't always like this, but I told him that he wasn't the one

dealing with the

> side effects, I was, and if I didn't like it and there were

options, we were

> going to try the options.

>

> So, I think meds have their place in treatment, but they aren't the

end all

> be all miracle cure, especially not for mental issues.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I thought the discussion was in terms of overmedicating and young

minds. The DR. started pushing mind altering drugs on my son when

he was 3. Some parents do that. They are being told by the white

coats to trust in them. Removing the child and the parent from each

other without know the " LIST " of side effects, some of which include

internal damage. What happened when depression meds made depressed

people more depressed. Yes let's talk about St. ,s Wart. Is

your depression because you suffered a life misunderstood and your

brain has a hard time fitting into a role that society has painted

for yOU? Did your parents ease that confusion or push for

compliance. WHY ARE YOU or anyone depressed. Maybe if we were

allowed to work on that in childhood and we had had our spirits and

self esteem we wouldn't need to medicate the hurt away. It has to

be when a child is young that a family is encouraged to support and

look at that child as dependant. NO DIAGNOSIS DOESN " T DEFINE A

CHILD. Low expectation yeilds poor results. I don't advocate

torture but I SEARCH FOR A WAY to teach my child in a way that is

meaningful to him. Knowledge is knowledge, I work to make it

accessable. Drugs well necessary, elicits a price. Adults can

weigh that against their set of goals. Children quickly become

victims, as their choice is made (pushed, by a non-parent)

It is seductive--they say things like " don't you want a

life? " " This will make him calmer "

They don't tell you the side effects or the risks.

Cause and effect is life, informed decisions are necessary, what are

the risks.

LET ME JUST SAY AGAIN 3 YEARS OLD

at that point he had never had a chance to try anything else.

I know the effect of chemicals--> they made my son Autistic, NEVER

AGAIN, no more poison for babies

[Guest guest]

" Yes let's talk about St. 's Wort. Is your depression because you

suffered a life misunderstood and your brain has a hard time fitting

into a role that society has painted for you? "

I was depressed through much of my life but did not turn to St. 's

until I became an adult. I find that I have to choose my battles or I

wind up getting even more depressed than I already am due to lack of

energy to keep fighting.

The fights I cannot win, or the fights I lose are the ones that make

me upset. What I mean by that is that, while I am willing to accept

the fact that one cannot win every battle, what I hate is losing a

battle for the following reasons:

1) The other person is incompetent.

2) The other person is lazy.

3) The other person feigns low intelligence in order to avoid doing

what it is you need them to do.

4) the other person is actually too unintelligent to grasp what it is

you are trying to impart to them.

5) The other person doesn't want to do what you need them to due to

prejudice against you.

6) The other person treats you like a second class citizen because

s/he senses that you are different.

7) The other person is deliberately cruel for no justifiable reason.

8) The other person treats you badly because s/he knows s/he can get

away with it.

9) Circumstances beyond your control interfere with whatever it is you

are trying to accomplish (i.e. the death of the bussiness colleague's

important family member so that a deal falls through at the critical

moment.)

10) So called " acts of God " at the critcal moment when an act of God

destroys everything.

I find that the world is overwhelmingly negative, somemtimes by

accident, sometimes by coincidence, but mostly intentionally. This is

what depresses me, and so this is why I have chosen to self-medicate

using St. 's.

" Did your parents ease that confusion or push for compliance. "

My parents complicate my life in many ways, although as they get older

they are doing better at not screwing things up as much.

" WHY ARE YOU or anyone depressed. "

Se above.

" Maybe if we were allowed to work on that in childhood and we had had

our spirits and self esteem we wouldn't need to medicate the hurt

away. "

I agree. Dig through the archives and you will sooner or later come

across a bunch of rants from many of us in which we express the same

sentiments.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

That was my point, you choose to medicate because OTHER people are

the problem. You aren't clinically depressed! You are event

depressed. The events for us can be daily. I say often that I can

see how to fix problems but I get depressed, because it is a

daunting task. I agree with you, I say I just want to make everyone

smarter!! We all feel this way. The real issue is communication.

You are likely smart but you are misunderstood by 97. % of people.

They don't see intelligence. they see arrogance, they are

intimidated that you can hold that much info in your head or they

misprecieve you. What if you were raised with understanding,

perhaps a bridge to the communication that would make you understand

the NT's and the NT's understand you. That is my proposal to not

medicate my child. I plan to actually parent him and be what

parents are supposed to be GUIDES. We are supposed(parents)to

teach, support and believe in our children as is and in the future.

Parents NEED to put aside their own shit and pain as use it as a

resourse to prevent the insults reaching their children. TURN it

aroung without drugs. Get there last, to preserve life not deaden

it. I work to protect my child here in his home by having the nerve

to work to understand him.

NOT make him understand me. Tom I am not disrespecting your pain.

I share it in a million ways. I appreciate it and I am willing to

use it as a guide, for what not to allow happen to my son. I want

to break the chain.

What I wrote about my ex, his G/F the works is stupidity geting in

the way of progress.

their issues are their problem

Ravi's isssues are mine. I want to preserve his brain, help him say

I can, and give back the idea that anything worth doing is worth

doing right.

Ex has actually told me GF is jealous of me, and she with no

training and no experience with any children wants to have custody

of my son. SHE does so now one might see why she is bad juju. My

ex like me is AS and he wants the conflict (her) to leave him

alone. My son is caught in the middle, and that is why I fight.

I fight to get my ex to understand why this is important. I am not

looking to add to his suffering but I won't sit by and allow the

suffering of my son to start.

Look I do wish everyone was smarter. I wish people would have an

intrest and pay attention to our rights being robbed from us. Our

children being drugged and limited and our environment and food

supply being poisioned by convience.

Temple grandin said if you like scientific advances thank an ASPIE

mimi

[Guest guest]

RE Anxiety: The wiki on anxiety is interesting. (Am I becoming a wiki fanatic or what?!) It gives a list of 9 supplements that are claimed to reduce anxiety. I think all of these should be available at most health food stores / food co-ops. There might even be products that contain most in one pill. Of course, some of these probably also have side effects. (See individual wiki links for each supplement.) There was a period in my life where for about 3 months I suffered extremely high levels of anxiety. I found that the extreme physical activity of running helped some. Perhaps that's related to the idea that panic is part of the fight-or-flight response. So running in a sense was engaging the panic-system by performing a flight response? Heph greebohere

<julie.stevenson16@...> wrote: I have a lot of problems with anxiety - mostly relating to what is going on in my life - i.e circumstances. The doctor has me on a low dose anti anxiety citalopram. How much this helps I am uncertain of - I do know when the doctor told me to up the dose it had bad side affects that I could not live with.Now the doctor says she is limited to what she can prescribe as she is not a psychiatrist and I tend to avoid psychiatrists as most tend to just push medication in

my opinion. The doctor wants me to continue taking this low dose until I can get some support regarding AS - but this feels like catch 22 - it is extremely hard to access help/support for AS where I live. >> AS does define to an extent. It is a major part of us. However, it doesn't > have to be all negative. Yes, there are problems associated with AS, but by and > large they can be dealt with by coping strategies and changes in > environment. Sometimes medication may still be needed. I take a very low dose of Paxil > to keep my anxiety under control, but even then I don't take it every day. > Usually every other day is enough and then I can step up the dosage if I am > having a very tough time with something, which the doctor has OKed

since he knows > I won't overdo it. > > Medication might be a first step. What worked for me was a higher dose for a > while to get things under control and then stepping back to lower doses. This > allowed me to get calmed down and work on coping strategies. Then I staged > back to a level where the edge is taken off the anxiety and all, but I feel it > enough to know to work on the coping strategies. Today I only take the meds > to keep a low level in my system so it is quicker to build back up to > medicinal levels if there is a major problem, since it take at least 2 weeks to > build up from a cold start. > > It would also help to begin with a low dose and build up in the beginning. > This is what I did and it worked. Rather than piling on the meds, I built up to > it so I could understand how the meds were going to affect me. A

couple of > them I didn't like the effects, so I switched to something else. The doctor > didn't always like this, but I told him that he wasn't the one dealing with the > side effects, I was, and if I didn't like it and there were options, we were > going to try the options. > > So, I think meds have their place in treatment, but they aren't the end all > be all miracle cure, especially not for mental issues. > > >Hephaestus Clubfoothttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestushttp://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/hephaestus.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabeiroi

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

I couldn't paint a more clear picture. That's exactly what's going on. The quick fixes are so malignant. Yes, the NEGATIVE SYMPTOMS of autism are caused by negative things within the environment. That's the simplest cause and effect relationship to autism. Of course, eccentricity is a gift that when nurtured correctly can unleash positive things within the world. Vaccines, drugs... They are without a doubt causing negative symptoms in people born with innate abilities superior to the norm. I'm not saying certain cognitive abilities make the person better than others. I'm saying that it is a fact that can be interpreted and has been interpreted negatively by the doctors who diagnose it. There are many positives to look for and they outweigh all the bad if only the parents believed in their children. miminm <mnmimi@...> wrote: I thought the discussion was in terms of overmedicating and young minds. The DR. started pushing mind altering drugs on my son when he was 3. Some parents do that. They are being told by the white coats to trust in them. Removing the child and the parent from each other without know the "LIST" of side effects, some of which include internal damage. What happened when depression meds made depressed people more depressed. Yes let's talk about St. ,s Wart. Is your depression because you suffered a life misunderstood and your brain has a hard time fitting into a role that society has painted for yOU? Did your parents ease that

confusion or push for compliance. WHY ARE YOU or anyone depressed. Maybe if we were allowed to work on that in childhood and we had had our spirits and self esteem we wouldn't need to medicate the hurt away. It has to be when a child is young that a family is encouraged to support and look at that child as dependant. NO DIAGNOSIS DOESN"T DEFINE A CHILD. Low expectation yeilds poor results. I don't advocate torture but I SEARCH FOR A WAY to teach my child in a way that is meaningful to him. Knowledge is knowledge, I work to make it accessable. Drugs well necessary, elicits a price. Adults can weigh that against their set of goals. Children quickly become victims, as their choice is made (pushed, by a non-parent)It is seductive--they say things like "don't you want a life?" "This will make him calmer"They don't tell you the side effects or the risks. Cause and effect is life, informed decisions are

necessary, what are the risks. LET ME JUST SAY AGAIN 3 YEARS OLDat that point he had never had a chance to try anything else.I know the effect of chemicals--> they made my son Autistic, NEVER AGAIN, no more poison for babies

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[Guest guest]

When people eat copper and have high amounts sitting in their bodies and then they start running the copper gets released. The body creates catecholamines from copper and other enzymes. They are what is termed the "runner's high". Dopamine is raised, serotonin lowered. The oxygen getting to the brain is clearing out debris. It's an intricate process. Caffeine is one thing I try to stay away from. Every once in a while I'll have a Green & Black chocolate bar and if I eat it all at once I'll get paranoid or over concentrate and sometimes total strangers will actually remark about it. The adrenal glands of cheetahs are huge, just like their hearts because they can run 70 miles an hour and they need the adrenaline. I just drank some jasmine tea at a restaurant. Jasmine has a sedative action. So does chinese skullcap, valerian in small amounts, of course there's also chamomile but, I've not had success with that one. Alot of korean markets will have Jasmine

tea and decaf green tea although one might want to be sure to get enough iodine because of the high fluoride content in many teas. The Japanese consume alot of seaweed which is extremely high in iodine. The reference pages you sent about the GABA and serotonin stories didn't go through to my computer. I'm finding out how to get the downloads to start working again. Hephaestus Clubfoot <lemnosforge@...> wrote: RE Anxiety: The wiki

on anxiety is interesting. (Am I becoming a wiki fanatic or what?!) It gives a list of 9 supplements that are claimed to reduce anxiety. I think all of these should be available at most health food stores / food co-ops. There might even be products that contain most in one pill. Of course, some of these probably also have side effects. (See individual wiki links for each supplement.) There was a period in my life where for about 3 months I suffered extremely high levels of anxiety. I found that the extreme physical activity of running helped some. Perhaps that's related to the idea that panic is part of the fight-or-flight response. So running in a sense was engaging the panic-system by performing a flight response? Heph greebohere <julie.stevenson16ntlworld> wrote: I have a lot of problems with anxiety - mostly relating to what is going on in my life - i.e circumstances. The doctor has me on a low dose anti anxiety citalopram. How much this helps I am uncertain of - I do know when the doctor told me to up the dose it had bad side affects that I could not live with.Now the doctor says she is limited to what she can prescribe as she is not a psychiatrist and I tend to avoid psychiatrists as most tend to just push medication in my opinion. The doctor wants me to continue taking this low dose until I can get some support regarding AS - but this feels like catch 22 - it is extremely hard to access help/support for AS where I live. >> AS

does define to an extent. It is a major part of us. However, it doesn't > have to be all negative. Yes, there are problems associated with AS, but by and > large they can be dealt with by coping strategies and changes in > environment. Sometimes medication may still be needed. I take a very low dose of Paxil > to keep my anxiety under control, but even then I don't take it every day. > Usually every other day is enough and then I can step up the dosage if I am > having a very tough time with something, which the doctor has OKed since he knows > I won't overdo it. > > Medication might be a first step. What worked for me was a higher dose for a > while to get things under control and then stepping back to lower doses. This > allowed me to get calmed down and work on coping strategies. Then I staged > back to a level where the edge is taken off the anxiety

and all, but I feel it > enough to know to work on the coping strategies. Today I only take the meds > to keep a low level in my system so it is quicker to build back up to > medicinal levels if there is a major problem, since it take at least 2 weeks to > build up from a cold start. > > It would also help to begin with a low dose and build up in the beginning. > This is what I did and it worked. Rather than piling on the meds, I built up to > it so I could understand how the meds were going to affect me. A couple of > them I didn't like the effects, so I switched to something else. The doctor > didn't always like this, but I told him that he wasn't the one dealing with the > side effects, I was, and if I didn't like it and there were options, we were > going to try the options. > > So, I think meds have their place in treatment, but

they aren't the end all > be all miracle cure, especially not for mental issues. > > >Hephaestus Clubfoothttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestushttp://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/hephaestus.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabeiroi Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/10/2006 7:46:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, julie.stevenson16@... writes:

I have a lot of problems with anxiety - mostly relating to what is going on in my life - i.e circumstances. The doctor has me on a low dose anti anxiety citalopram. How much this helps I am uncertain of - I do know when the doctor told me to up the dose it had bad side affects that I could not live with.Now the doctor says she is limited to what she can prescribe as she is not a psychiatrist and I tend to avoid psychiatrists as most tend to just push medication in my opinion. The doctor wants me to continue taking this low dose until I can get some support regarding AS - but this feels like catch 22 - it is extremely hard to access help/support for AS where I live.

I get my meds from a psychiatrist. The ones I had discussed meds with me because, well, that's why I was there. However, we talked about the different kinds and I tried several before I settled on Paxil. The doctors had no problem with allowing me to switch meds if one had side effects I couldn't tolerate. Only once did I have two meds for a while, but that didn't last. I told the doctor that there were bad side effects and that I hated taking two pills. Given that he already knew I hated taking meds in the first place, we tired something else.

Fortunately it wasn't too hard to find a doctor here. Fortunately also I managed to pick good ones. I've never looked for support for AS, but it probably is hard to come by. My DX actually came in a round about way. I found a survey in Wired magazine and took it. In addition I wrote comments on a loose piece of paper. This I took to my counselor and showed him. He kept it and showed it to the new man in the practice who had just come from a practice where he specialized in autistic children. That man said it was almost certain I was AS. Later, I took part in a study and the results said I was very likely AS, which was as high as the ratings went. So technically I don't have an "official" DX, but between those two things and all that I have read, I have no doubt about it.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/10/2006 11:01:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, drumthis2001@... writes:

I went to a private school through 4.5 grades in junior high to high school. It was a so-called christian school. I eventually had a sort of nervous breakdown from trying to do everything in the bible correctly.

There are some "Christian" schools around here that are disasters. My mother's Catholic School got a girl from one and she didn't learn much. The teachers at that place actually told her it was the devil that made her have bad handwriting and that she was a bad girl because of it, or something to that effect. It is little wonder those schools are not accredited, which means anyone who actually graduates from one of those places won't be able to use that school to get into college. I've been to both Catholic and Baptist affiliated schools and it wasn't that bad.

I have to disagree with the uniform and segregation issues though. Until I graduated from high school, every school I had been to had uniforms. This was never a problem for anyone and it solved a lot of trouble over what to wear and so on. The high school I went to was also all male. That was not a bad thing either. We didn't have all the fighting and showing off over girls and all that kind of thing and so there wasn't that distraction. There are several public schools around the country that are trying segregation by sex and it seems to be working as violence is down and grades are up in those schools.

However, I don't think uniforms and segregation alone are enough to turn the tide. If they are a part of genuine reforms and not just a showing gimmick, then they would have their place. but just putting everyone in uniform and expecting everything to get better is just silly.

Government is indeed opportunistic. Government and bureaucracy are living things. They feed on money and seek prestige. Like any living thing they seek to grow. And they will, until their hunger saps the economy it depends on and its regulations strangle free enterprise. That can be changed by strict limits on government, more by strict limits on spending than anything else, but that requires attention and vigilance on the part of voters and above all, a willingness to step away from the trough and do for oneself.

I would agree that government is part of the problem, but mostly because it doesn't teach its charges the fundamentals: civics, economics, ethics and the history of the country. Without these things, people are merely residents of a country and not truly citizens of it. Since the majority of college kids don't know anything about civics and the rest, then it is little wonder there is so much confusion out there.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/11/2006 12:46:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, mnmimi@... writes:

I am not saying medication is always unwarrented. I am saying 3 is pretty young to introduce mind altering drugs.

3 does seem pretty young to be giving powerful mind meds. Have they suggested any alternatives? If not, I'd definitely be looking for another doctor.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/11/2006 12:48:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

Keep in mind that much of the government consists of former members of the working class. We voted them in there and we can vote them out. If the government is opportunistic and deceitful (and I agree that it is), then ask yourself why these people stay in office so long?It's because most voters are too unintelligent to see what is going on right in front of their faces. If they did, the corrupt people would be voted out. Also, the devil you know is better than the devil you don't in their opinion, so bad people are kept in office.That is why the government is messed up.TomAdministrator

I did read something today about Google having some kind of Truth Detector program up and running so people could varify if what politicians said is true or not. It would research their background and see if they fudged the truth about their pasts or embellished something or whatever.

However, I am very leery about this. Google does have its own political leanings and is opportunistic itself. They could easily alter the programming to give certain candidates a free ride. But I think that just by announcing this, politicians have already figured out how they are going to get around this. When this is up and running, you can bet legions of hackers will be out there disposing of data, severing links, setting up false links and data, etc. Sure, the program might be able to find the "truth", but if the data has become unreliable and openly manipulated, then things will be even muddier than they are now. I mean imagine politically backed hackers getting into all the various record keeping agencies and modifying them at will to help their candidates. The truth will disappear as data becomes impossible to verify.

But I do think that a lot of the long serving pols need to go. Many of them have had no job other than government so how on earth are they supposed to understand how the real world works? Worse, almost all of them are lawyers! It is little wonder than laws are so full of gibberish that not even they can understand them. That's why I supported term limits.

But instead of term limits and spending restraints, we get McCain-Feingold campaign finance laws that serve only to stifle political speech (what the First Amendment is all about) and protects the incumbents from competition. They should have used what we have here in Virginia: donate all you want, but the campaigns must have their records open to the public down to the last penny so everyone can see who owns the politicians.

Well, I don't really want to go into another one of my how I would reform the government rants so I will end here.

[Guest guest]

It stands to reason. Reasons are different from excuses. Alot of kids grow up without learning respect. They don't know how to respect themselves and the media and corporations who play to the tune of laziness and seeking after everything except independence and creativity. I went to a private school through 4.5 grades in junior high to high school. It was a so-called christian school. I eventually had a sort of nervous breakdown from trying to do everything in the bible correctly. That's when I moved to my dad's house. Anyway, segregation and dress codes do nothing to help schools or else America would have more men in college. Magazines are littered with drug ads. It used to be whiskey and cigarettes. The government takes money from the highest paying lobbyists even though they get their money by deception. Plato was a liar. The government is simply more opportunistic and deceitful than the working class. Obviously education is meant to give

a false view of oneself and the country. Drug companies have brainwashed everyone through fear. When people can't make a difference in their own country because of suppression and greed, when people disappear for speaking the truth, everyone should be very afraid of what comes next. No wonder people take drugs from the most powerful corporations on earth. They want to appease ( I hate to say this) "the gods". It's innate. People tolerate the psychopaths until the psychopaths get so arrogant that they kill someone or 60 people. Then the liberals say they had a bad childhood. In the words of Alanis sette, "Isn't it Ironic, don't you think?" VISIGOTH@... wrote: In a message dated 10/8/2006 1:20:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, drumthis2001 writes: There are many factors which contribute to any general lack of interest in school or other so named disorders. Pink Floyd said it well when they said, "No dark sarcasm in the classroom, teachers leave those kids alone. Many teachers are in their job without having any passion. Rather, it's job security. Their primary virtues are being able to control their outward appearance that maintains a sane composure all the while reading out of a textbook and mechanically going through grades.

I've long said that is the problem in the US especially. Public schools are not about teaching the kids and haven't been since at least Jimmy when the Department of Education was make a cabinet level post (a reward for turning out the teacher vote for him). The majority of education spending goes to the bureaucrats who never see the inside of a classroom and lots of other "support" elements. Less than a third actually goes to teachers and teaching materials. Aside from that, the main thrust of the teachers is support for the union and bureaucracy which guaranteed even the worst teachers jobs for life. Any threat to this cushy system is met with frenetic opposition. Just look at how the teachers act about school choice and accountability. It should also come as little surprise that most teachers and virtually all the bureaucrats have their kids in private schools. But the drug issue is worrying. I think the main problem is that kids are overstimulated. They have 24 hour TV, wild video games, sports, etc. They never have any downtime, time to unwind. They are hyper because their brains are overloaded and never get to relax. They are cranky and mean because they never get enough sleep. They also act out because the parents refuse to be parents and set limits and enforce rules. The worst act like they do because they know that no matter what they do, their parents will take their side against the teachers or anyone else. The other problem is the sales reps. There are no requirements for being a drug sales rep in the US, unlike a number of other countries where they have to have a medical degree of some kind. Over here, they have been signing up models and such to do the selling. Also included are gifts like lunches with the pretty rep, vacations, etc., (just how much, etc., with

the rep is an open debate). There are rumors that there are even rewards for prescribing certain amounts of drugs, just like how HMOs would pay doctors to deny treatment and tests. This is all easy enough to fix. 1.) a law that all drug reps must have some medical certification, a nursing degree at the very least. 2.) Require drug companies to spend no more than half of their research budget on advertising, soliciting and political lobbying. Currently the drug companies spend more on advertising than they do on research. Never was in favor of allowing them to advertise prescription drugs. 3.) Lower trade barriers to drug imports from countries with safe manufacturing processes. Currently the US has a virtual socialist health care system for the world whereby Americans pay the very high prices for drugs but those same drugs are sold overseas

at a fraction of the cost. Yes this might hurt future development of medicines, but take the previous two steps as well and it should balance out. This year the 4 big drug companies posted a higher profit than the next 100 companies combined, that is from the list of big companies based on the stock market. This is money left after all costs like drug research and so on are taken out of the gross income. I'm not suggesting a windfall profit tax or anything because that would only encourage them to move overseas, sort of like happened to Europe a decade or so ago. Granted they might try to run as well if the measures I suggested are implemented, but it would be harder for them to argue against spending less on advertising than on R & D than it would be against higher taxes.

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