[Guest guest]

Gail - I've been taking LDN for a month along with my Copaxone. I've had MS since 1994. I had a relapse in 1998 and that's when I started Copaxone. I heard about LDN from my son who knows a man whose wife takes it and calls it her "miracle drug". I have seen some good things since taking it. I have been able to stop my Detrol for bladder control and every couple of days I have a real good day with my walking. I'm going to continue Copaxone till I feel comfortable enough to do that. Hope you decide to take LDN and good luck. Kim

[Guest guest]

Hi Hyppi,

My typing is so slow - I gues I'm a lurker too! I've never done the disolving

of the pills so I'll leave that to another chatter that knows. The pills

have to be full strength! not gradual release or whatever they call theother

kind. Make sure. I hope you got the right ones.

Good Luck,

Vetre

hyppi wrote:

hi de hi ...fellow ldn

user's.....i'm normally a lurker.... so hear goes.....just imported to the

uk from mexico,revia tabs.....do i need to disolve in distilled water...or

will filtered water be suitable......i will thank now, every answer received......hyppi

uk (rocket scientist)

[Guest guest]

Hi

I have used distilled water for 2-yrs on ldn.

Regards

----- Original Message -----

From:

low dose naltrexone

Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 2:00 AM

Subject: Re: [low dose naltrexone]

Hi Hyppi, My typing is so slow - I gues I'm a lurker too! I've never done the disolving of the pills so I'll leave that to another chatter that knows. The pills have to be full strength! not gradual release or whatever they call theother kind. Make sure. I hope you got the right ones. Good Luck, Vetrehyppi wrote:

hi de hi ...fellow ldn user's.....i'm normally a lurker.... so hear goes.....just imported to the uk from mexico,revia tabs.....do i need to disolve in distilled water...or will filtered water be suitable......i will thank now, every answer received......hyppi uk (rocket scientist)

[Guest guest]

DOES ANYONE KNOW OF SOME GOOD EXERCISES OR WHERE TO FIND EXERCISES TO HELP LOSE WEIGHT? I NEED TO START LOSING WEIGHT, WHICH I'M SURE WILL HELP WITH SOME OF THE BALANCE PROBLEMS. THANK YOU, KIM R

[Guest guest]

I found Dr Phil's book on weight lost is great. so far I lost 15

pounds

--- In low dose naltrexone , REILLYMICHAELA17@C...

wrote:

> DOES ANYONE KNOW OF SOME GOOD EXERCISES OR WHERE TO FIND EXERCISES

TO HELP

> LOSE WEIGHT? I NEED TO START LOSING WEIGHT, WHICH I'M SURE WILL

HELP WITH SOME

> OF THE BALANCE PROBLEMS. THANK YOU, KIM R

[Guest guest]

Patty,

I am sorry that women cannot understand that any doctor can have a bad day.

I am sorry that all women do not see eye to eye and feel that they have to

be right.

I am sorry that women are ill from implants.

I am sorry that this has become a forum for bashing doctors.

I am sorry about a lot of things, but not for standing up for what is right.

Women should take it off the group if they want to bash someone. That

should be a rule, not giving out the name of compassionate wonderful doctors.

You have made some mistakes here. I am sure others have seen it. Of

course, you will get support because of who you are, but if you do not

recognize the mistakes, they will recur.

I did not win any argument, and it is too bad. Because right lost. Justice

lost. And many women lost because of that.

And that makes me sad.

Lynda

At 07:38 PM 6/16/2004, you wrote:

>A house divided cannot stand...how many times have

>women in the breast implant cause failed because of

>this one thing?

>

>I have known for a long time now that you can win the

>argument, but totally lose the battle.

>

>To me, it is all about compassion and understanding.

>

>You win many arguments, Lynda, but with me, you lost

>the battle. That's really sad.

>Patty

[Guest guest]

Hi :

I feel the need to respond and then I shall move forward.

I didn't want to offend you at all--or anyone for that matter, but I traveled all over the US and as I stated have met many NICE PS's where I entered their offices a butchered woman but left with hope and contentment--that was not the case in Denver and I'll be darned if I apologise for that.

It does not please me to admit a bad experience because I share some blame, ignoring the red flag I first noted. This was MY experience, I'm not an idiot, I know what happened to me in Denver, and this was no "bad day" on a doctor's part.But if some need to believe that to soothe cognitive dissonance, so be it. A bad day might be indicative of a bad mood, rushed demeanor or the like, not telling the medical details that were told to me that were according to other PS's medically inaccurate and just plain wrong i.e. my scars CAN'T be fixed, get implants and the big blow off.

I think those who dismiss one's experience to "emotion" sorely underscore the germane content of the situation thereby creating a red herring--meant to detract from the issue at hand: my receiving appropriate medical evaluation of my injury--THAT is the heart of this issue.If I would have been treated rudely but given SOUND medical advise/evaluation of my situation, I'd have no real beef. The lack of compassion, duplicity of the implant stance and the gossiping about the member on SS was only the ICING on the cake.The "cake" was my medical evaluation and no BAD DAY should be used as an excuse for it's justification is fundamentally ludicrous.

I take responsibilities for my actions and statements. I've had several PS's back me up on this one so I very much resent being labeled as some person who lacks the intelligence and objectivity that was painfully obvious to me and other PSs I've had the pleasure to consult with.As for my background, I too was a social worker, albeit not at the graduate level(MSW) but the lower level with my BA degree. I did not make it into GWU law school on my inability to separate emotion from objective thinking and frankly it's hurtful to be told that I can't tell when I'm receiving shoddy unprofessional medical care--as though I'm that clueless .Blaming the victim solves nothing.I would NEVER chastise someone if they had a bad experience with my doctor, I'd be upset with my doctor. Good grief!

As for what happened with Dr. Kolb, I was not here in the end of that. As for , she never started rumors. As for fighting, we all had our share, I was not innocent in my arguments with Dr. Kolb either and for anything I said out of line to her on SS, I am sorry.

is my friend, I will always stand with her as she has been a source of support for me.I hope I can be that support for her if she so needs it. She has a good heart and a good woman.

Thank you for reading this post .Have a good night.

Take care and happy health

LM

JOSEPH PALANCA <juliejp61@...> wrote:

I would hope that to be the case. And I didn’t say only . But I happened to be here for a long time and watch her, and others (you should remember) argue every point ever made by Dr Kolb in her last months here. And myself when it pertained to her. I don’t care how it started. Really. Or what she told you, I am going by what she has said, what has been argued with me into the ground, what she has said to Dr Kolb herself, and what I have read.. All the posts are all here.

And it doesn’t stop with Dr K. Now , and for a while its been Huang. So now, Huang cant be spoken about. I mean look at the big picture here.

It's Nothing new.

I'm not "blaming" for anything, but merely responding to her posts written by her. God, please don’t go there, with now she is the victim in all this.

I think this would be a great rule and would stop all the fighting! Only a patient with a bad experience with their PS, like yourself, has the right to speak on about negative experinces. Not others. Support can be given, but no bashing! To go on about it with your added opinion, like Haung is on a breast implant site,( wrong, I agree) or no -Dr Kolb puts them in, (they all do, hello!) is absurd. That way, no one would get hurt in this. We could share good and bad, and be free to do so. With no arguments. Ill tell you, if someone came forward with their bad story about Dr Kolb, I would support her, and not say one word otherwise. How sad not to have a good outcome. I don’t care by what PS, it is sad, and she needs support. Period. Who am I to say, my PS could never do a bad job? Shes only human, and can only do so much. Only that patient, went through that epxerience, not me. Who am I to say?

But on the flip side, when it comes to Dr Feng- wait a minute, there was a bad explant spoken about here about month ago- by one of her patients, and recommending her on this site didn’t come to a screeching halt. And, it was so hard to hear, it was even argued with the patient herself. That she handled it wrong, and needed to go back to Dr Feng to ask her to fix it. Surely, Dr Feng didn’t make a mistake! Heavens no! Please-they all make mistakes. perhaps some patients will never look like they want, and PS's arent perfect. I sure the hell am glad I didn’t go into the profession, let me tell you.

Re: My Experience with Dr. Huang >Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:33:45 -0000 > >Jade it is not obsurd and you don't happen to understand that Patty >was threatened with a lawsuit by one Dr if she ever mentioned her >name again, so you need to be careful when saying something is absurd >that you don't know anything about. We need to be careful because >these Dr's don't necesarily care about us. This group is for support >and for the women who need it to feel safe and not to feel they >cannot talk about their implant and explant experience good or bad. >However, when certain individuals continue to start arguments and >continue to put a Dr over individuals who have had bad experiences

>with these Dr's then it is important that it be taken off the group, >for the safety and sanctitiy of the group as a whole. We are here to >support members, not necesarily Dr's. >Besides no one told you that you could not talk about your Dr. >Please try to understand having been here a short time that many many >things have gone down on this site regarding this subject and Patty >has reasons for asking people to keep this stuff of the site. > > > > > > > > > >In , "jadebreaks" <jadebreaks@u...> >wrote: > > --- In , ~*Patty*~ <faussettdp@y...> >wrote: > > > The recommendations for the doctors that have been > > > controversial on our group should be made privately by > > > all members. > > > I believe I have pointed out who those were in my > > > previous post. > > > Patty > > > >

Is this a new rule? If so, it's a very unfair rule. Who decides > > which doctors fall into the "controversial" group? > > > > This is past the point of obsurd! > > > > Jade > > > >

[Guest guest]

Lynda; Like it or not it IS Patty's party so she gets to make the rules. But isnt it much easier to email someone personally than go thru all this crap every month. I too have more drama in my life than I can stand and this just adds to it. It is such a turn off. I'm searching for another site that has less drama and supports everyone in the group not just a few friends.

VickieLynda <coss@...> wrote:

Patty,I am sorry that women cannot understand that any doctor can have a bad day.I am sorry that all women do not see eye to eye and feel that they have to be right.I am sorry that women are ill from implants.I am sorry that this has become a forum for bashing doctors.I am sorry about a lot of things, but not for standing up for what is right.Women should take it off the group if they want to bash someone. That should be a rule, not giving out the name of compassionate wonderful doctors.You have made some mistakes here. I am sure others have seen it. Of course, you will get support because of who you are, but if you do not recognize the mistakes, they will recur.I did not win any argument, and it is too bad. Because right lost. Justice lost. And many women lost because

of that.And that makes me sad.LyndaAt 07:38 PM 6/16/2004, you wrote:>A house divided cannot stand...how many times have>women in the breast implant cause failed because of>this one thing?>>I have known for a long time now that you can win the>argument, but totally lose the battle.>>To me, it is all about compassion and understanding.>>You win many arguments, Lynda, but with me, you lost>the battle. That's really sad.>Patty

[Guest guest]

You just may be right. She will never let it go without the last word,

cause then she must feel that she loses the battle.

I think offsite is how I will go from now on. It is a shame that one

doctor should be censored when all have controversies. I do think the

clique thing is strong and those get the support. I seldom feel supported

here. In fact, I feel attacked every time I mention this one doctor, and

that is inappropriate. One time mentioning it should have been enough. It

has been for other things.

If you find a more supportive site, let me know.

Lynda

At 08:37 AM 6/17/2004, you wrote:

>Lynda; Like it or not it IS Patty's party so she gets to make the

>rules. But isnt it much easier to email someone personally than go thru

>all this crap every month. I too have more drama in my life than I can

>stand and this just adds to it. It is such a turn off. I'm searching for

>another site that has less drama and supports everyone in the group not

>just a few friends.

>Vickie

>

>Lynda <coss@...> wrote:

>Patty,

>

>I am sorry that women cannot understand that any doctor can have a bad day.

>

>I am sorry that all women do not see eye to eye and feel that they have to

>be right.

>

>I am sorry that women are ill from implants.

>

>I am sorry that this has become a forum for bashing doctors.

>

>I am sorry about a lot of things, but not for standing up for what is right.

>

>Women should take it off the group if they want to bash someone. That

>should be a rule, not giving out the name of compassionate wonderful doctors.

>

>You have made some mistakes here. I am sure others have seen it. Of

>course, you will get support because of who you are, but if you do not

>recognize the mistakes, they will recur.

>

>I did not win any argument, and it is too bad. Because right lost. Justice

>lost. And many women lost because of that.

>

>And that makes me sad.

>

>Lynda

>

>

>At 07:38 PM 6/16/2004, you wrote:

> >A house divided cannot stand...how many times have

> >women in the breast implant cause failed because of

> >this one thing?

> >

> >I have known for a long time now that you can win the

> >argument, but totally lose the battle.

> >

> >To me, it is all about compassion and understanding.

> >

> >You win many arguments, Lynda, but with me, you lost

> >the battle. That's really sad.

> >Patty

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lm, To sum up my response to your message, I never dismissed your bad experience. Ever. To have one more negative experience , is the last thing we need. ---- Original Message -----

From: Jane Doe

Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 1:41 AM

Subject: Re: Re:

Hi :

I feel the need to respond and then I shall move forward.

I didn't want to offend you at all--or anyone for that matter, but I traveled all over the US and as I stated have met many NICE PS's where I entered their offices a butchered woman but left with hope and contentment--that was not the case in Denver and I'll be darned if I apologise for that.

It does not please me to admit a bad experience because I share some blame, ignoring the red flag I first noted. This was MY experience, I'm not an idiot, I know what happened to me in Denver, and this was no "bad day" on a doctor's part.But if some need to believe that to soothe cognitive dissonance, so be it. A bad day might be indicative of a bad mood, rushed demeanor or the like, not telling the medical details that were told to me that were according to other PS's medically inaccurate and just plain wrong i.e. my scars CAN'T be fixed, get implants and the big blow off.

I think those who dismiss one's experience to "emotion" sorely underscore the germane content of the situation thereby creating a red herring--meant to detract from the issue at hand: my receiving appropriate medical evaluation of my injury--THAT is the heart of this issue.If I would have been treated rudely but given SOUND medical advise/evaluation of my situation, I'd have no real beef. The lack of compassion, duplicity of the implant stance and the gossiping about the member on SS was only the ICING on the cake.The "cake" was my medical evaluation and no BAD DAY should be used as an excuse for it's justification is fundamentally ludicrous.

I take responsibilities for my actions and statements. I've had several PS's back me up on this one so I very much resent being labeled as some person who lacks the intelligence and objectivity that was painfully obvious to me and other PSs I've had the pleasure to consult with.As for my background, I too was a social worker, albeit not at the graduate level(MSW) but the lower level with my BA degree. I did not make it into GWU law school on my inability to separate emotion from objective thinking and frankly it's hurtful to be told that I can't tell when I'm receiving shoddy unprofessional medical care--as though I'm that clueless .Blaming the victim solves nothing.I would NEVER chastise someone if they had a bad experience with my doctor, I'd be upset with my doctor. Good grief!

As for what happened with Dr. Kolb, I was not here in the end of that. As for , she never started rumors. As for fighting, we all had our share, I was not innocent in my arguments with Dr. Kolb either and for anything I said out of line to her on SS, I am sorry.

is my friend, I will always stand with her as she has been a source of support for me.I hope I can be that support for her if she so needs it. She has a good heart and a good woman.

Thank you for reading this post .Have a good night.

Take care and happy health

LM

JOSEPH PALANCA <juliejp61@...> wrote:

I would hope that to be the case. And I didn’t say only . But I happened to be here for a long time and watch her, and others (you should remember) argue every point ever made by Dr Kolb in her last months here. And myself when it pertained to her. I don’t care how it started. Really. Or what she told you, I am going by what she has said, what has been argued with me into the ground, what she has said to Dr Kolb herself, and what I have read.. All the posts are all here.

And it doesn’t stop with Dr K. Now , and for a while its been Huang. So now, Huang cant be spoken about. I mean look at the big picture here.

It's Nothing new.

I'm not "blaming" for anything, but merely responding to her posts written by her. God, please don’t go there, with now she is the victim in all this.

I think this would be a great rule and would stop all the fighting! Only a patient with a bad experience with their PS, like yourself, has the right to speak on about negative experinces. Not others. Support can be given, but no bashing! To go on about it with your added opinion, like Haung is on a breast implant site,( wrong, I agree) or no -Dr Kolb puts them in, (they all do, hello!) is absurd. That way, no one would get hurt in this. We could share good and bad, and be free to do so. With no arguments. Ill tell you, if someone came forward with their bad story about Dr Kolb, I would support her, and not say one word otherwise. How sad not to have a good outcome. I don’t care by what PS, it is sad, and she needs support. Period. Who am I to say, my PS could never do a bad job? Shes only human, and can only do so much. Only that patient, went through that epxerience, not me. Who am I to say?

But on the flip side, when it comes to Dr Feng- wait a minute, there was a bad explant spoken about here about month ago- by one of her patients, and recommending her on this site didn’t come to a screeching halt. And, it was so hard to hear, it was even argued with the patient herself. That she handled it wrong, and needed to go back to Dr Feng to ask her to fix it. Surely, Dr Feng didn’t make a mistake! Heavens no! Please-they all make mistakes. perhaps some patients will never look like they want, and PS's arent perfect. I sure the hell am glad I didn’t go into the profession, let me tell you.

Re: My Experience with Dr. Huang >Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:33:45 -0000 > >Jade it is not obsurd and you don't happen to understand that Patty >was threatened with a lawsuit by one Dr if she ever mentioned her >name again, so you need to be careful when saying something is absurd >that you don't know anything about. We need to be careful because >these Dr's don't necesarily care about us. This group is for support >and for the women who need it to feel safe and not to feel they >cannot talk about their implant and explant experience good or bad. >However, when certain individuals continue to start arguments and >continue to put a Dr over individuals who have had bad experiences >with these Dr's then it is important that it be taken off the group, >for the safety and sanctitiy of the group as a whole. We are here to >support members, not necesarily Dr's. >Besides no one told you that you could not talk about your Dr. >Please try to understand having been here a short time that many many >things have gone down on this site regarding this subject and Patty >has reasons for asking people to keep this stuff of the site. > > > > > > > > > >In , "jadebreaks" <jadebreaks@u...> >wrote: > > --- In , ~*Patty*~ <faussettdp@y...> >wrote: > > > The recommendations for the doctors that have been > > > controversial on our group should be made privately by > > > all members. > > > I believe I have pointed out who those were in my > > > previous post. > > > Patty > > > > Is this a new rule? If so, it's a very unfair rule. Who decides > > which doctors fall into the "controversial" group? > > > > This is past the point of obsurd! > > > > Jade > > > >

[Guest guest]

I don't think anyone dismissed the bad experience, just the way it carried

on forever and seemed to negate others' positive experiences.

Lynda

At 09:24 AM 6/17/2004, you wrote:

>Lm, To sum up my response to your message, I never dismissed your bad

>experience. Ever. To have one more negative experience , is the last thing

>we need. ---- Original Message -----

>From: <mailto:oceanlilly_csu@...>Jane Doe

><mailto: >

>Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 1:41 AM

>Subject: Re: Re:

>

>Hi :

>I feel the need to respond and then I shall move forward.

>I didn't want to offend you at all--or anyone for that matter, but I

>traveled all over the US and as I stated have met many NICE PS's where I

>entered their offices a butchered woman but left with hope and

>contentment--that was not the case in Denver and I'll be darned if I

>apologise for that.

> It does not please me to admit a bad experience because I share some

> blame, ignoring the red flag I first noted. This was MY experience, I'm

> not an idiot, I know what happened to me in Denver, and this was no " bad

> day " on a doctor's part.But if some need to believe that to soothe

> cognitive dissonance, so be it. A bad day might be indicative of a bad

> mood, rushed demeanor or the like, not telling the medical details that

> were told to me that were according to other PS's medically inaccurate

> and just plain wrong i.e. my scars CAN'T be fixed, get implants and the

> big blow off.

>

>I think those who dismiss one's experience to " emotion " sorely underscore

>the germane content of the situation thereby creating a red

>herring--meant to detract from the issue at hand: my receiving appropriate

>medical evaluation of my injury--THAT is the heart of this issue.If I

>would have been treated rudely but given SOUND medical advise/evaluation

>of my situation, I'd have no real beef. The lack of compassion, duplicity

>of the implant stance and the gossiping about the member on SS was only

>the ICING on the cake.The " cake " was my medical evaluation and no BAD DAY

>should be used as an excuse for it's justification is fundamentally ludicrous.

>

>I take responsibilities for my actions and statements. I've had several

>PS's back me up on this one so I very much resent being labeled as some

>person who lacks the intelligence and objectivity that was painfully

>obvious to me and other PSs I've had the pleasure to consult with.As for

>my background, I too was a social worker, albeit not at the graduate

>level(MSW) but the lower level with my BA degree. I did not make it into

>GWU law school on my inability to separate emotion from objective thinking

>and frankly it's hurtful to be told that I can't tell when I'm receiving

>shoddy unprofessional medical care--as though I'm that clueless .Blaming

>the victim solves nothing.I would NEVER chastise someone if they had a bad

>experience with my doctor, I'd be upset with my doctor. Good grief!

>

>As for what happened with Dr. Kolb, I was not here in the end of that. As

>for , she never started rumors. As for fighting, we all had our

>share, I was not innocent in my arguments with Dr. Kolb either and for

>anything I said out of line to her on SS, I am sorry.

>

> is my friend, I will always stand with her as she has been a source

>of support for me.I hope I can be that support for her if she so needs it.

>She has a good heart and a good woman.

>

>Thank you for reading this post .Have a good night.

>Take care and happy health

>LM

>

>

>

>JOSEPH PALANCA <juliejp61@...> wrote:

>I would hope that to be the case. And I didn't say only . But I

>happened to be here for a long time and watch her, and others (you should

>remember) argue every point ever made by Dr Kolb in her last months here.

>And myself when it pertained to her. I don't care how it started. Really.

>Or what she told you, I am going by what she has said, what has been

>argued with me into the ground, what she has said to Dr Kolb herself, and

>what I have read.. All the posts are all here.

>

> And it doesn't stop with Dr K. Now , and for a while its been Huang. So

> now, Huang cant be spoken about. I mean look at the big picture here.

>It's Nothing new.

>I'm not " blaming " for anything, but merely responding to her posts

>written by her. God, please don't go there, with now she is the victim in

>all this.

>I think this would be a great rule and would stop all the fighting! Only a

>patient with a bad experience with their PS, like yourself, has the right

>to speak on about negative experinces. Not others. Support can be given,

>but no bashing! To go on about it with your added opinion, like Haung is

>on a breast implant site,( wrong, I agree) or no -Dr Kolb puts them in,

>(they all do, hello!) is absurd. That way, no one would get hurt in this.

>We could share good and bad, and be free to do so. With no arguments. Ill

>tell you, if someone came forward with their bad story about Dr Kolb, I

>would support her, and not say one word otherwise. How sad not to have a

>good outcome. I don't care by what PS, it is sad, and she needs support.

>Period. Who am I to say, my PS could never do a bad job? Shes only human,

>and can only do so much. Only that patient, went through that epxerience,

>not me. Who am I to say?

>But on the flip side, when it comes to Dr Feng- wait a minute, there was a

>bad explant spoken about here about month ago- by one of her

>patients, and recommending her on this site didn't come to a screeching

>halt. And, it was so hard to hear, it was even argued with the patient

>herself. That she handled it wrong, and needed to go back to Dr Feng to

>ask her to fix it. Surely, Dr Feng didn't make a mistake! Heavens no!

>Please-they all make mistakes. perhaps some patients will never look like

>they want, and PS's arent perfect. I sure the hell am glad I didn't go

>into the profession, let me tell you.

> Re: My Experience

> with Dr. Huang >Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:33:45 -0000 > >Jade it is not

> obsurd and you don't happen to understand that Patty >was threatened with

> a lawsuit by one Dr if she ever mentioned her >name again, so you need to

> be careful when saying something is absurd >that you don't know anything

> about. We need to be careful because >these Dr's don't necesarily care

> about us. This group is for support >and for the women who need it to

> feel safe and not to feel they >cannot talk about their implant and

> explant experience good or bad. >However, when certain individuals

> continue to start arguments and >continue to put a Dr over individuals

> who have had bad experiences >with these Dr's then it is important that

> it be taken off the group, >for the safety and sanctitiy of the group as

> a whole. We are here to >support members, not necesarily Dr's. >Besides

> no one told you that you could not talk about your Dr. >Please try to

> understand having been here a short time that many many >things have gone

> down on this site regarding this subject and Patty >has reasons for

> asking people to keep this stuff of the site. > > > > > > > > > >In

> , " jadebreaks " <jadebreaks@u...> >wrote: > >

> --- In , ~*Patty*~

> <faussettdp@y...> >wrote: > > > The recommendations for the doctors that

> have been > > > controversial on our group should be made privately

> by > > > all members. > > > I believe I have pointed out who those were

> in my > > > previous post. > > > Patty > > > > Is this a new rule? If so,

> it's a very unfair rule. Who decides > > which doctors fall into the

> " controversial " group? > > > > This is past the point of obsurd! > > > >

> Jade > > > >

[Guest guest]

Thank you , that's very kind.

Enjoy your weekend and take care.

LM JOSEPH PALANCA <juliejp61@...> wrote:

Lm, To sum up my response to your message, I never dismissed your bad experience. Ever. To have one more negative experience , is the last thing we need. ---- Original Message -----

From: Jane Doe

Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 1:41 AM

Subject: Re: Re:

Hi :

I feel the need to respond and then I shall move forward.

I didn't want to offend you at all--or anyone for that matter, but I traveled all over the US and as I stated have met many NICE PS's where I entered their offices a butchered woman but left with hope and contentment--that was not the case in Denver and I'll be darned if I apologise for that.

It does not please me to admit a bad experience because I share some blame, ignoring the red flag I first noted. This was MY experience, I'm not an idiot, I know what happened to me in Denver, and this was no "bad day" on a doctor's part.But if some need to believe that to soothe cognitive dissonance, so be it. A bad day might be indicative of a bad mood, rushed demeanor or the like, not telling the medical details that were told to me that were according to other PS's medically inaccurate and just plain wrong i.e. my scars CAN'T be fixed, get implants and the big blow off.

I think those who dismiss one's experience to "emotion" sorely underscore the germane content of the situation thereby creating a red herring--meant to detract from the issue at hand: my receiving appropriate medical evaluation of my injury--THAT is the heart of this issue.If I would have been treated rudely but given SOUND medical advise/evaluation of my situation, I'd have no real beef. The lack of compassion, duplicity of the implant stance and the gossiping about the member on SS was only the ICING on the cake.The "cake" was my medical evaluation and no BAD DAY should be used as an excuse for it's justification is fundamentally ludicrous.

I take responsibilities for my actions and statements. I've had several PS's back me up on this one so I very much resent being labeled as some person who lacks the intelligence and objectivity that was painfully obvious to me and other PSs I've had the pleasure to consult with.As for my background, I too was a social worker, albeit not at the graduate level(MSW) but the lower level with my BA degree. I did not make it into GWU law school on my inability to separate emotion from objective thinking and frankly it's hurtful to be told that I can't tell when I'm receiving shoddy unprofessional medical care--as though I'm that clueless .Blaming the victim solves nothing.I would NEVER chastise someone if they had a bad experience with my doctor, I'd be upset with my doctor. Good grief!

As for what happened with Dr. Kolb, I was not here in the end of that. As for , she never started rumors. As for fighting, we all had our share, I was not innocent in my arguments with Dr. Kolb either and for anything I said out of line to her on SS, I am sorry.

is my friend, I will always stand with her as she has been a source of support for me.I hope I can be that support for her if she so needs it. She has a good heart and a good woman.

Thank you for reading this post .Have a good night.

Take care and happy health

LM

JOSEPH PALANCA <juliejp61@...> wrote:

I would hope that to be the case. And I didn’t say only . But I happened to be here for a long time and watch her, and others (you should remember) argue every point ever made by Dr Kolb in her last months here. And myself when it pertained to her. I don’t care how it started. Really. Or what she told you, I am going by what she has said, what has been argued with me into the ground, what she has said to Dr Kolb herself, and what I have read.. All the posts are all here.

And it doesn’t stop with Dr K. Now , and for a while its been Huang. So now, Huang cant be spoken about. I mean look at the big picture here.

It's Nothing new.

I'm not "blaming" for anything, but merely responding to her posts written by her. God, please don’t go there, with now she is the victim in all this.

I think this would be a great rule and would stop all the fighting! Only a patient with a bad experience with their PS, like yourself, has the right to speak on about negative experinces. Not others. Support can be given, but no bashing! To go on about it with your added opinion, like Haung is on a breast implant site,( wrong, I agree) or no -Dr Kolb puts them in, (they all do, hello!) is absurd. That way, no one would get hurt in this. We could share good and bad, and be free to do so. With no arguments. Ill tell you, if someone came forward with their bad story about Dr Kolb, I would support her, and not say one word otherwise. How sad not to have a good outcome. I don’t care by what PS, it is sad, and she needs support. Period. Who am I to say, my PS could never do a bad job? Shes only human, and can only do so much. Only that patient, went through that epxerience, not me.. Who am I to say?

But on the flip side, when it comes to Dr Feng- wait a minute, there was a bad explant spoken about here about month ago- by one of her patients, and recommending her on this site didn’t come to a screeching halt. And, it was so hard to hear, it was even argued with the patient herself. That she handled it wrong, and needed to go back to Dr Feng to ask her to fix it. Surely, Dr Feng didn’t make a mistake! Heavens no! Please-they all make mistakes. perhaps some patients will never look like they want, and PS's arent perfect. I sure the hell am glad I didn’t go into the profession, let me tell you.

Re: My Experience with Dr. Huang >Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:33:45 -0000 > >Jade it is not obsurd and you don't happen to understand that Patty >was threatened with a lawsuit by one Dr if she ever mentioned her >name again, so you need to be careful when saying something is absurd >that you don't know anything about. We need to be careful because >these Dr's don't necesarily care about us. This group is for support >and for the women who need it to feel safe and not to feel they >cannot talk about their implant and explant experience good or bad. >However, when certain individuals continue to start arguments and >continue to put a Dr over individuals who have had bad experiences

>with these Dr's then it is important that it be taken off the group, >for the safety and sanctitiy of the group as a whole. We are here to >support members, not necesarily Dr's. >Besides no one told you that you could not talk about your Dr. >Please try to understand having been here a short time that many many >things have gone down on this site regarding this subject and Patty >has reasons for asking people to keep this stuff of the site. > > > > > > > > > >In , "jadebreaks" <jadebreaks@u...> >wrote: > > --- In , ~*Patty*~ <faussettdp@y...> >wrote: > > > The recommendations for the doctors that have been > > > controversial on our group should be made privately by > > > all members. > > > I believe I have pointed out who those were in my > > > previous post. > > > Patty > > > >

Is this a new rule? If so, it's a very unfair rule. Who decides > > which doctors fall into the "controversial" group? > > > > This is past the point of obsurd! > > > > Jade > > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Sari, good to hear all is well post surgery and bounced back quickly. We would be very interested in hearing how he goes over the next few days. Has his eyes swelled up almost completly or does he still have ok vision? We are very concerned about this for Alyssa. We were told Alyssa is having desolving stitches therefore doesn't need them taken out later. Did have desolving as well?

Thank you for giving us the details of your surgeon in Chicago, unfortunately we are in New Zealand and too far away.

Please keep us posted.

and Rob

blepharophimosis Re: Update on Alyssa

Hi, & Rob,Guess what? My 3 year old just had his epicanthal fold surgeryYESTERDAY! So far so good. His surgeon called it "medialcanthoplasty & medial canthaplexy" which means they made some smallcuts in the corner to address the e-fold & then pulled his tendonstighter to bring the corner of the eyes closer to his nose. Thesurgery took 2 hours, recovery was longer. We were at the hospitalall day, but it was outpatient surgery. He is NOT touching his eyes at all. We are putting ointment in thecorners and giving him regular tylenol. Last night we put a softsplint on each arm to prevent him from bending them and messing withhis eyes. He slept through the night, as usual. Now he's eating aHUGE breakfast with his eyes barely open! Yelling, laughing, singingjust like usual, if maybe a little slower on his feet.I'll try to post a picture today. His surgeon is Dr. Lissner of Chicago and he is an ocularplasticsurgeon. You could give him call for a consultation. We did that- wecalled Doctors from out of state to check on him, and everyone wasvery honest & accomodatingHave any more questions? Just ask!Sari> Hi everyone and to all the new members. For some reason we werelocked out of , and only just got back again so have missedmessages for the last few weeks.> For those who aren't familiar, Alyssa is our 19 month old with BPESand Duanes Syndromes. The first in our family to have BPES.> > We had a consultation with Alyssa's surgeon today and he hasscheduled surgery to do her epicanthal folds next week (the 24thJune) He is going to use the "Roveda procedure". We would love tohear from anyone with info about, or has had this particular proceduredone? We are concerned about the amount of different procedures forthe same effect, and would like to know if this is one of the widelyused methods.> > Afterwards should we expect days of screaming from the pain? We arealso concerned that she might rub or fall and pull all the stitchesetc. We've read your posts regarding this and understand that littleones very quickly find out it is too sore to touch and this detersthem from rubbing their eyes, but has anyone experienced the worst andhad to go back to surgery?> > We are (as you can tell) anxious about her first surgery. Yourreplies are much appreciated. thanks.> > and Rob

[Guest guest]

& Rob,

Today is day #3 and I can't believe the change! First of all, the

minute we left the hospital he was his regular happy self. He is

sitting for stories & taking slightly longer naps, but that's the only

difference in attitude/energy.

He had some discharge (yellowish/whitish) that came after sleep after

the first day, but that's just due to a blocked tearduct from the

ointment, probably. It's already a lot better.

My husband came home tonight from work and he hasn't seen for 24

hours and couldn't believe the difference. His swelling is

significantly reduced and we can now see the change in his lower lids.

I don't want to flood the website with pictures, but if you'd like

updated pictures e-mail me directly and I'd be happy to send them!

's eyes did swell up almost completely, but he was still able to

somehow see to get around. We don't know how he did it! He also has

disolving stitches and our surgeon advised us his incision would

remain red until they dissolve- about 3 weeks.

He's still not rubbing or scratching his stitches, but we're still

putting the splints on at night. He doesn't seem to need Tylenol at all!

Regards! Sari

> Hi Sari, good to hear all is well post surgery and bounced back

quickly. We would be very interested in hearing how he goes over the

next few days. Has his eyes swelled up almost completly or does he

still have ok vision? We are very concerned about this for Alyssa.

We were told Alyssa is having desolving stitches therefore doesn't

need them taken out later. Did have desolving as well?

> Thank you for giving us the details of your surgeon in Chicago,

unfortunately we are in New Zealand and too far away.

> Please keep us posted.

> and Rob

[Guest guest]

Hi Sari. Leah here.. would love to see the photos of kyle. Glad to hear all is going so well.. Take Care

Re: blepharophimosis

& Rob, Today is day #3 and I can't believe the change! First of all, theminute we left the hospital he was his regular happy self. He issitting for stories & taking slightly longer naps, but that's the onlydifference in attitude/energy.He had some discharge (yellowish/whitish) that came after sleep afterthe first day, but that's just due to a blocked tearduct from theointment, probably. It's already a lot better.My husband came home tonight from work and he hasn't seen for 24hours and couldn't believe the difference. His swelling issignificantly reduced and we can now see the change in his lower lids. I don't want to flood the website with pictures, but if you'd likeupdated pictures e-mail me directly and I'd be happy to send them!'s eyes did swell up almost completely, but he was still able tosomehow see to get around. We don't know how he did it! He also hasdisolving stitches and our surgeon advised us his incision wouldremain red until they dissolve- about 3 weeks.He's still not rubbing or scratching his stitches, but we're stillputting the splints on at night. He doesn't seem to need Tylenol at all!Regards! Sari> Hi Sari, good to hear all is well post surgery and bounced backquickly. We would be very interested in hearing how he goes over thenext few days. Has his eyes swelled up almost completly or does hestill have ok vision? We are very concerned about this for Alyssa. We were told Alyssa is having desolving stitches therefore doesn'tneed them taken out later. Did have desolving as well?> Thank you for giving us the details of your surgeon in Chicago,unfortunately we are in New Zealand and too far away.> Please keep us posted. > and Rob

[Guest guest]

Congratulations on 's surgery!! It is great to hear all the info after surgery so we can have an idea what to expect. Could you let me know the name and number of your surgeon? We are in Georgia but are looking for a good surgeon anywhere that someone can recommend!! Good luck to you and with the healing.

-----Original Message-----From: snellshein [mailto:snellshein@...] Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 6:31 PMblepharophimosis Subject: Re: blepharophimosis & Rob, Today is day #3 and I can't believe the change! First of all, theminute we left the hospital he was his regular happy self. He issitting for stories & taking slightly longer naps, but that's the onlydifference in attitude/energy.He had some discharge (yellowish/whitish) that came after sleep afterthe first day, but that's just due to a blocked tearduct from theointment, probably. It's already a lot better.My husband came home tonight from work and he hasn't seen for 24hours and couldn't believe the difference. His swelling issignificantly reduced and we can now see the change in his lower lids.I don't want to flood the website with pictures, but if you'd likeupdated pictures e-mail me directly and I'd be happy to send them!'s eyes did swell up almost completely, but he was still able tosomehow see to get around. We don't know how he did it! He also hasdisolving stitches and our surgeon advised us his incision wouldremain red until they dissolve- about 3 weeks.He's still not rubbing or scratching his stitches, but we're stillputting the splints on at night. He doesn't seem to need Tylenol at all!Regards! Sari> Hi Sari, good to hear all is well post surgery and bounced backquickly. We would be very interested in hearing how he goes over thenext few days. Has his eyes swelled up almost completly or does hestill have ok vision? We are very concerned about this for Alyssa. We were told Alyssa is having desolving stitches therefore doesn'tneed them taken out later. Did have desolving as well?> Thank you for giving us the details of your surgeon in Chicago,unfortunately we are in New Zealand and too far away.> Please keep us posted. > and Rob

[Guest guest]

Good luck to you!! I know we will all be thinking of you and everything will go great. Where do you live? We are scouting Dr.'s so wanted to see if you are close. We live in Atlanta, Georgia.

-----Original Message-----From: Noonnaanay@... [mailto:Noonnaanay@...] Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 9:54 PMblepharophimosis Subject: blepharophimosis Hi All! I know I don't write much but I am ALWAYS reading and keeping up with everyone. We have scheduled 's next surgery for the epicanthal folds on Sept 15th. I am both nervous and excited. More nervous though. I think this surgery will really affect the way she is going to look.? Anyway, just wanted to keep you posted. Good luck to all and God Bless.

[Guest guest]

HELLO . I am new to all this forum . I

have had ms for 7 years , have had betainterferon for 12months only made me

worse .The drugs companies want TO PUT THEIR EFFORTS INTO OTHER THINGS . I have

been on LDN for 3 months and had no side effects, but no improvement .

How long should I wait to see ???

I have seen the goats serum in magazines ,

is the future stem cells ???i have seen people discussing it. I thought it was

banned etc….

IS THERE A POSSIBLE FUTURE CURE OUT THERE

THAT I AM UNAWARE OF ???

Your help / advise would be appreciated.

OR AM I BETTER BEING IGNORANT??

MARK.C

[Guest guest]

Mark,

You are not better off being ignorant. There is no cure yet but there is a lot of progress being made by getting knowledgeable and taking control of your health. Stay on the LDN, you may never notice anything but it seems to stop progression and does no harm.

Go to www.copingandprevailing.com If you cannot afford to pay for the book send me your mailing address and I will send it to you.

Regards,

Tom

----- Original Message -----

From: markderkster

low dose naltrexone

Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 12:03 PM

Subject: FW: [low dose naltrexone]

HELLO . I am new to all this forum . I have had ms for 7 years , have had betainterferon for 12months only made me worse .The drugs companies want TO PUT THEIR EFFORTS INTO OTHER THINGS . I have been on LDN for 3 months and had no side effects, but no improvement .

How long should I wait to see ???

I have seen the goats serum in magazines , is the future stem cells ???i have seen people discussing it. I thought it was banned etc….

IS THERE A POSSIBLE FUTURE CURE OUT THERE THAT I AM UNAWARE OF ???

Your help / advise would be appreciated.

OR AM I BETTER BEING IGNORANT??

MARK.C

[Guest guest]

Thanks for being my first response.

mark

-----Original Message-----

From: Bayuk

[mailto:tbayuk@...]

Sent: 05 July 2004 17:13

To:

low dose naltrexone

Subject: Re: [low dose naltrexone]

Mark,

You are not better off being

ignorant. There is no cure yet but there is a lot of progress being made

by getting knowledgeable and taking control of your health. Stay on the

LDN, you may never notice anything but it seems to stop progression and does no

harm.

Go to www.copingandprevailing.com

If you cannot afford to pay for the book send me your mailing address and I

will send it to you.

Regards,

Tom

----- Original Message -----

From: markderkster

low dose naltrexone

Sent: Monday,

July 05, 2004 12:03 PM

Subject: FW:

[low dose naltrexone]

HELLO .

I am new to all this forum . I have had ms for 7 years , have had

betainterferon for 12months only made me worse .The drugs companies want TO PUT

THEIR EFFORTS INTO OTHER THINGS . I have been on LDN for 3 months and had no

side effects, but no improvement .

How long

should I wait to see ???

I have

seen the goats serum in magazines , is the future stem cells ???i have seen

people discussing it. I thought it was banned etc….

IS THERE

A POSSIBLE FUTURE CURE OUT THERE THAT I AM UNAWARE OF ???

Your help / advise would be appreciated.

OR AM I

BETTER BEING IGNORANT??

MARK.C

[Guest guest]

anyone - i have been taking ldn for about nine weeks now. the only improvement is the bladder control. the stiffness when i get up is awful. is it time to switch the dose? kim

[Guest guest]

stiffness leaves after i stretch for a while. but, if i sit in the same spot for awhile it comes back when i go to get up.

[Guest guest]

Reg - It goes away after I lay and stretch for awhile but when I sit in one position for about 15-20 min. and go to move I can hardly walk. I wasn't this stiff before LDN. If that's part of the program I can certainly cope.

[Guest guest]

Does not the stiffness go away though?

Reg.

-------Original Message-------

From: low dose naltrexone

Date: 07/09/04 12:51:01

low dose naltrexone

Subject: Re: [low dose naltrexone]

anyone - i have been taking ldn for about nine weeks now. the only improvement is the bladder control. the stiffness when i get up is awful. is it time to switch the dose? kim

____________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here

[Guest guest]

--- I just tried some DLPhenalanine, bought it at the supermarket and

it helps with the stiffness! I'ts relatively cheap.500mg, 30 tablets

$5.95.

Steve

In low dose naltrexone , REILLYMICHAELA17@C... wrote:

> anyone - i have been taking ldn for about nine weeks now. the only

> improvement is the bladder control. the stiffness when i get up is

awful. is it time to

> switch the dose? kim