arsenic

March 16, 2001

Hi ,

from what I've read here, the metals come do sometimes

come out sequentially. but, even if " all " you ever get

is arsenic, you should keep at it--- arsenic is not

good stuff!

I don't remember whatever it was about arsenic going to

the brain.....

Moria

At 06:40 PM 3/16/2001 +1300, you wrote:

>Hi,

>I would appreciate any comments/advice on the following-

>

>urine test after first round of chelating dmsa, low dose, my son's test has

>come back with,

>

>lead and mercury insignificant amounts but arsenic high 160 with ref 1-70.

>

>Should we continue to chelate with dmsa???, I found some confusing posts a

>while back, saying it could put more arsenic into the brain????

>

>Does arsenic come out before mercury???

>

>Thanks

>

>=======================================================

>

March 16, 2001

Dear Barb,

My name is Max Minkoff and I work in a clinic called the LifeWorks Wellness

Center. While, I am not a practitioner I do coordinate all of our testing

and research in the field of heavy metals. Our senior physician

Minkoff, MD has been doing detox on adults and children for some time and we

find some very interesting results on both stool and urine tests.

Depending on the product used to chelate, metals can come out in a certain

order. For example, one of the products we use in addition to DMPS, ALA,

etc, removes metals in the order of heaviest first. This usually means lead

comes out before mercury, arsenic, etc. I don't know if this applies to

other chelators as well.

I don't know if you've heard about the recent articles in Southeast of the

discovery of excessive amounts of arsenic in the soil of playgrounds. We've

had three days in a row of headlines in the Tampa Bay Area newspapers about

this arsenic leaching from pressure-treated wood into the soil. They just

closed one of these in Tarpon Springs due to the toxicity. Pretty scary!

I have access to a lot of info on the subject as a result of all the testing

and treatment we do. I would be glad to answer any questions you may have.

Max Minkoff

Assistant to the Doctor

[ ] Re: arsenic

>

> >Hi,

> >I would appreciate any comments/advice on the following-

> >

> >urine test after first round of chelating dmsa, low dose, my son's test

has

> >come back with,

> >

> >lead and mercury insignificant amounts but arsenic high 160 with ref

1-70.

> >

> >Should we continue to chelate with dmsa???, I found some confusing posts

a

> >while back, saying it could put more arsenic into the brain????

> >

> >Does arsenic come out before mercury???

> >

> >Thanks

> >

> >=======================================================

> >

March 16, 2001

Yes, I believe so, judging from the experiences of others on the list. Our

son has very high arsenic, and we have been working on getting it down with

the DMSA/ALA . (We are in Phase 2). That said, I am certainly not an

expert in this . . .

Barb

[ ] Re: arsenic

>Hi,

>I would appreciate any comments/advice on the following-

>

>urine test after first round of chelating dmsa, low dose, my son's test has

>come back with,

>

>lead and mercury insignificant amounts but arsenic high 160 with ref 1-70.

>

>Should we continue to chelate with dmsa???, I found some confusing posts a

>while back, saying it could put more arsenic into the brain????

>

>Does arsenic come out before mercury???

>

>Thanks

>

>=======================================================

>

March 17, 2001

Hi Max, I would be very interested to learn more...I

just moved my kids from the Tampa bay area. We lived

there 7 years...Do you know if the Bradenton area is

included in this??/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Lindy~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

--- Max Minkoff <max@...> wrote:

> Dear Barb,

>

> My name is Max Minkoff and I work in a clinic called

> the LifeWorks Wellness

> Center. While, I am not a practitioner I do

> coordinate all of our testing

> and research in the field of heavy metals. Our

> senior physician

> Minkoff, MD has been doing detox on adults and

> children for some time and we

> find some very interesting results on both stool and

> urine tests.

>

> Depending on the product used to chelate, metals can

> come out in a certain

> order. For example, one of the products we use in

> addition to DMPS, ALA,

> etc, removes metals in the order of heaviest first.

> This usually means lead

> comes out before mercury, arsenic, etc. I don't know

> if this applies to

> other chelators as well.

>

> I don't know if you've heard about the recent

> articles in Southeast of the

> discovery of excessive amounts of arsenic in the

> soil of playgrounds. We've

> had three days in a row of headlines in the Tampa

> Bay Area newspapers about

> this arsenic leaching from pressure-treated wood

> into the soil. They just

> closed one of these in Tarpon Springs due to the

> toxicity. Pretty scary!

>

> I have access to a lot of info on the subject as a

> result of all the testing

> and treatment we do. I would be glad to answer any

> questions you may have.

>

> Max Minkoff

> Assistant to the Doctor

>

> [ ] Re: arsenic

> >

> > >Hi,

> > >I would appreciate any comments/advice on the

> following-

> > >

> > >urine test after first round of chelating dmsa,

> low dose, my son's test

> has

> > >come back with,

> > >

> > >lead and mercury insignificant amounts but

> arsenic high 160 with ref

> 1-70.

> > >

> > >Should we continue to chelate with dmsa???, I

> found some confusing posts

> a

> > >while back, saying it could put more arsenic into

> the brain????

> > >

> > >Does arsenic come out before mercury???

> > >

> > >Thanks

> > >

> >

>

>=======================================================

> > >

March 17, 2001

My son had mostly arsenic coming out as of January, and Moira is right, it

is nasty stuff! You want it out, and DMSA does get it out. According to

Andy, it is synergistic with lead and mercury, so the cumulative effect of

the three can be very bad.

Lorilyn

March 21, 2001

,

We are also in the high arsenic and uranium camp. Actually my son shows levels of toxins on every one except one(!), but his two highest on the hair analysis were arsenic and uranium. And guess what? Five months later (after three months worth of tests) his two highest levels (excretion) were arsenic and uranium! So I guess the hair test was telling us the truth!

We will test again in about three weeks. We have been using DMSA, and now DMSA/ALA for about eight months (some breaks in there.) His arsenic has dropped from about the 97% to around 80-85%. I'll be anxious to see what the levels are now--three months later. He hasn't seemed to have any regressions or problems detoxing the stuff, although it is taking a while. And the last test showed mercury levels going up as the arsenic was coming down. (Of course, then we had REALLY high antimony, so go figure!) I'm glad the stuff is coming out, even though neither DMSA or ALA is supposed to work on antimony?????

Barb

P.S. What motivates me the most is knowing that arsenic long-term can lead to cancer!

[ ] arsenic

Hi,

Thanks to everyone who replied to my orginal post, the feedback was very helpful.

Okay my son has very high arsenic, could it be a possibility that he has not been exposed to any more arsenic than the average child, but he cannot detoxify it out of his system.? I have just viewed the actual results, and it also turns out he has quite high thallium too.

After talking to his dr today we have decided to continue chelating with DMSA, re test and see if we are bringing the arsenic down

Thanks for the help

=======================================================

March 21, 2001

Oh, something else I forgot to tell you. We tested two of our other kids, because we were worried about the arsenic. Both of them showed levels, but only about a half to one-third of what their brother had. Detoxing issues? Hmmm? I wonder, too.

Barb

[ ] arsenic

Hi,

Thanks to everyone who replied to my orginal post, the feedback was very helpful.

Okay my son has very high arsenic, could it be a possibility that he has not been exposed to any more arsenic than the average child, but he cannot detoxify it out of his system.? I have just viewed the actual results, and it also turns out he has quite high thallium too.

After talking to his dr today we have decided to continue chelating with DMSA, re test and see if we are bringing the arsenic down

Thanks for the help

=======================================================

March 21, 2001

>

> Hi,

>

> Thanks to everyone who replied to my orginal post, the feedback was

very helpful.

>

> Okay my son has very high arsenic, could it be a possibility that he

has not been exposed to any more arsenic than the average child, but

he cannot detoxify it out of his system.? I have just viewed the

actual results, and it also turns out he has quite high thallium too.

>

> After talking to his dr today we have decided to continue chelating

with DMSA, re test and see if we are bringing the arsenic down

>

> Thanks for the help

>

DMSA is not effective for arsenic. DMPS and ALA are. DMPS does not

remove it from inside the cells like ALA does.

Arsenic + thallium makes it sound extremely likely he got into some or

other pesticides. Both are used to kill vermin of various sorts.

Thallium most often for rats, arsenic for a lot of things but the most

dangerous for children is the sweet syrup in the little stakes and

jars that is 90% corn syrup and 10% arsenic trioxide.

Andy

..

...

..

March 22, 2001

Andy

We are seeing arsenic coming out with just dmsa, are you saying this

would be coming out naturally anyway or could it be vit c/e, milk

thistle or other anti oxidants we are giving pushing it out ?

rgds

paul

> --- In @y..., " Tim Rountree " <rountree.t & m@x...>

wrote:

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > Thanks to everyone who replied to my orginal post, the feedback

was

> very helpful.

> >

> > Okay my son has very high arsenic, could it be a possibility that

he

> has not been exposed to any more arsenic than the average child, but

> he cannot detoxify it out of his system.? I have just viewed the

> actual results, and it also turns out he has quite high thallium

too.

> >

> > After talking to his dr today we have decided to continue

chelating

> with DMSA, re test and see if we are bringing the arsenic down

> >

> > Thanks for the help

> >

>

> DMSA is not effective for arsenic. DMPS and ALA are. DMPS does not

> remove it from inside the cells like ALA does.

>

> Arsenic + thallium makes it sound extremely likely he got into some

or

> other pesticides. Both are used to kill vermin of various sorts.

> Thallium most often for rats, arsenic for a lot of things but the

most

> dangerous for children is the sweet syrup in the little stakes and

> jars that is 90% corn syrup and 10% arsenic trioxide.

>

> Andy

>

> .

>

> ..

>

> .

March 22, 2001

> --- In @y..., " Tim Rountree " <rountree.t & m@x...>

wrote:

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > Thanks to everyone who replied to my orginal post, the feedback

was

> very helpful.

> >

> > Okay my son has very high arsenic, could it be a possibility that

he

> has not been exposed to any more arsenic than the average child, but

> he cannot detoxify it out of his system.? I have just viewed the

> actual results, and it also turns out he has quite high thallium

too.

> >

> > After talking to his dr today we have decided to continue

chelating

> with DMSA, re test and see if we are bringing the arsenic down

> >

> > Thanks for the help

> >

>

> DMSA is not effective for arsenic. DMPS and ALA are. DMPS does not

> remove it from inside the cells like ALA does.

>

> Arsenic + thallium makes it sound extremely likely he got into some

or

> other pesticides. Both are used to kill vermin of various sorts.

> Thallium most often for rats, arsenic for a lot of things but the

most

> dangerous for children is the sweet syrup in the little stakes and

> jars that is 90% corn syrup and 10% arsenic trioxide.

>

> Andy

I hate to diagree with Andy, but DMSA is currently the recommended

therapy for arsenic poisoning, unless the poisoning is so severe that

the patient is about to die, in which case Dimercaprol (BAL,

2,3-dimercaptopropanol) is still the treatment of choice (curing

arsenic poisoning since 1926!). DMPS will, of course, also work, but

has a higher incidence of toxicity and other adverse reactions.

Jim Laidler

March 22, 2001

,

I wonder if once one detoxs some of the other stuff, then the body can naturally

get rid of the antimony?

S

------------------------------------------------------------- ( Of course, then

we had REALLY high antimony, so go figure!) I'm glad the st uff is coming out,

even though neither DMSA or ALA is supposed to work on a ntimony?????

Barb

March 22, 2001

In a message dated 3/22/01 8:44:42 AM Central Standard Time,

paultradi@... writes:

<< We are seeing arsenic coming out with just dmsa, are you saying this

would be coming out naturally anyway or could it be vit c/e, milk

thistle or other anti oxidants we are giving pushing it out ? >>

We see an increase in arsenic output with DMSA but a bigger one with DMPS. I

think DMSA does remove arsenic but Andy is probably right that DMPS is more

effective at removing it.

Gaylen

March 22, 2001

I'd be curious about your arsenic in matched 24 hour urine samples

with and without DMSA.

Andy

> > >

> > > Hi,

> > >

> > > Thanks to everyone who replied to my orginal post, the feedback

> was

> > very helpful.

> > >

> > > Okay my son has very high arsenic, could it be a possibility

that

> he

> > has not been exposed to any more arsenic than the average child,

but

> > he cannot detoxify it out of his system.? I have just viewed the

> > actual results, and it also turns out he has quite high thallium

> too.

> > >

> > > After talking to his dr today we have decided to continue

> chelating

> > with DMSA, re test and see if we are bringing the arsenic down

> > >

> > > Thanks for the help

> > >

> >

> > DMSA is not effective for arsenic. DMPS and ALA are. DMPS does

not

> > remove it from inside the cells like ALA does.

> >

> > Arsenic + thallium makes it sound extremely likely he got into

some

> or

> > other pesticides. Both are used to kill vermin of various sorts.

> > Thallium most often for rats, arsenic for a lot of things but the

> most

> > dangerous for children is the sweet syrup in the little stakes and

> > jars that is 90% corn syrup and 10% arsenic trioxide.

> >

> > Andy

> >

> > .

> >

> > ..

> >

March 22, 2001

Andy,

Initially we did a pre-test before a therapeutic trial of chelation. My son's

pre-test arsenic level was 160 (rr 0-100) and his post with Chemet was 44.

March 23, 2001

Since we began chelating, my son's arsenic levels have dropped...just a FYI -Shari

[ ] Re: arsenic

I'd be curious about your arsenic in matched 24 hour urine samples with and without DMSA.Andy> > > > > > Hi,> > > > > > Thanks to everyone who replied to my orginal post, the feedback > was > > very helpful.> > > > > > Okay my son has very high arsenic, could it be a possibility that > he > > has not been exposed to any more arsenic than the average child, but > > he cannot detoxify it out of his system.? I have just viewed the > > actual results, and it also turns out he has quite high thallium > too.> > > > > > After talking to his dr today we have decided to continue > chelating > > with DMSA, re test and see if we are bringing the arsenic down> > > > > > Thanks for the help> > > > > > > DMSA is not effective for arsenic. DMPS and ALA are. DMPS does not > > remove it from inside the cells like ALA does.> > > > Arsenic + thallium makes it sound extremely likely he got into some > or > > other pesticides. Both are used to kill vermin of various sorts. > > Thallium most often for rats, arsenic for a lot of things but the > most > > dangerous for children is the sweet syrup in the little stakes and > > jars that is 90% corn syrup and 10% arsenic trioxide.> > > > Andy> > > > > > .> > .> > .> > > > ..> > =======================================================

May 21, 2001

,

Yes,it does/can, particularly in conjunction with other metals/toxins. Do you

live near former orchards or near a golf course. Do you have treated

wood/lumber products? They spray it on golf courses and orchards and it stays

in the soil (and could potentially get into well water?). They use it to treat

lumber.

S

On Sun, 20 May 2001, nelsoneyes@... wrote:

>

> <html><body>

> <tt>

> Bernie - We don't have any arsenic in our well water, of course. I can't <BR>

> imagine where it would come from. Both hair tests show very high levels (99%)

<BR>

> of arsenic. But arsenic poisoning wouldn't cause autistic symptoms, would

it?<BR>

> <BR>

> </tt>

>

> <br>

>

>

>

> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>

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> =======================================================<BR>

>

May 21, 2001

But arsenic poisoning wouldn't cause autistic symptoms, would it?

********

Arsenic is a very common exposure and is very neurotoxic like

mercury, affects millions of people. Why did you think it wouldn't

cause autism? It has a synergistic effect with other toxic metals and

other toxics, and is well documented to cause neurological damage,

this is the type of conditions we call autism. Autism is a group of

conditions, not a single " disease " imo. See the following snip from

my paper on toxic metal effects re: arsenic

Arsenic, like most of the other metals has been found in studies to

be associated with neurologic, vascular, dematolgic, and carcinogenic

effects, along with reproductive effects(100). A comparison of areas

with higher levels of arsenic in the water supply found higher fetal and

infant mortality in areas with higher arsenic levels and higher cancer

rates. Some of the developmental effects documented to be caused by

low level toxic metal exposure include developmental delays, growth

problems, slower reaction times, diminished intellectual ability,

behavior problems, poor balance and motor function, hearing loss,

attention deficit disorder, etc.(19,43,etc.)

According to an EPA/ATSDR assessment, the toxic metals lead,

mercury, and arsenic are the top 3 toxics having the most adverse health

effects on the public based on toxicity and current exposure levels in

the U.S.(1), with cadmium, chromium and nickel also highly listed.

Many similar studies measuring child hair levels of the toxic

metals aluminum, arsenic, cadmium, lead, and mercury have found that

these toxic metals have significant effects on learning ability and

cognitive performance, explaining as much as 20 % of cognitive

differences among randomly tested children who have low levels of

exposure not exceeding health guidelines for exposure to any of these

metals(8,9,12,13,17,19). These toxic metals have been found to have

synergistic negative effects on childhood development and cognitive

ability(8,13-15,66).

A combined hair level score for mercury, lead, arsenic, cadmium and

aluminum was found to be significantly related to increased scores on

the WPBIC subscales measuring acting-out, disturbed peer relations,

immaturity, and the total score(6) among a population of students with

no known acute exposures.

Bernie

May 24, 2001

With Austin's first round of DMSA, we pulled out arsenic and antimony.

We are starting to chelate again and will be using both ALA and DMSA

In a message dated 5/24/01 1:04:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

moriam@... writes:

> Subj:Re: [ ] arsenic

> Date:5/24/01 1:04:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time

> From: moriam@... (Moria Merriweather)

> Reply-to: <A

HREF= " mailto: " > </A>

>

> ALA does.

>

> At 01:07 PM 5/24/2001 -0400, you wrote:

> >Does anyone know if DMSA brings down arsenic levels?

> >If NOT, Does anyone know what does?

> >Thanks,

> >Cece

> >

> >=======================================================

> >

May 24, 2001

ALA does.

At 01:07 PM 5/24/2001 -0400, you wrote:

>Does anyone know if DMSA brings down arsenic levels?

>If NOT, Does anyone know what does?

>Thanks,

>Cece

>

>=======================================================

>

May 25, 2001

In a message dated 5/24/01 12:20:16 PM Central Daylight Time,

cecebe@... writes:

> Does anyone know if DMSA brings down arsenic levels?

>

It's worked really well for our arsenic

Gaylen

May 25, 2001

DMSA is considered to be the best and safest way to remove arsenic

from the body. In cases where death is imminent due to arsenic

poisoning, BAL/dimercaprol is still the best choice, although it is

very toxic in its own right.

Jim Laidler

> Does anyone know if DMSA brings down arsenic levels?

> If NOT, Does anyone know what does?

> Thanks,

> Cece

May 25, 2001

Actually DMPS and ALA are much more effective for arsenic than DMSA -

they are used for it everywhere else in the world. I even ran into a

Russian guy who was chelated with DMPS and ALA for arsenic (along with

43 other people) after an 'industrial' accident.

Andy

> > Does anyone know if DMSA brings down arsenic levels?

> > If NOT, Does anyone know what does?

> > Thanks,

> > C

May 25, 2001

> Does anyone know if DMSA brings down arsenic levels?

> If NOT, Does anyone know what does?

DMPS and ALA.

> Thanks,

> Cece

June 3, 2001

He is obviously arsenic toxic...+95% Lindy

*******************************

The following is snipped from www.home.earthlik.net/~berniew1 where

you can find

the references. Bernie