Liver Biopsy

[Guest guest]

Thanks to everyone for your comments about Liver Biopsy.

I was told 10 years ago that I have AIH. Since then I've developed

autoimmune disease in several other areas of my body as well. I've

never had a biopsy or any medications. Now I've agreed to have one

and I'm nervous about the pain, after so many years with pain of one

sort or another.

The hepatologist and a nurse at the hospital told me it's painful,

but they don't offer sedation here. No reason was given.

Having read all your comments, I realise now that they want the

patient to be alert so that they can keep very still. I wonder why

medical people can't just explain things so simply.

I was told I could take some pain medication before the procedure, so

that's what I'll do, if only to keep me calm.

Thanks again; I feel better about it all now.

>

> Hi Sue,

>

> I did in The Netherlands. You do feel it, It is not the end of the

world so

> to say but if I could I would have some form of sedation.

>

> Why if I may ask?

>

> Loes

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: [mailto:LiverSupport-

L ]

> On Behalf Of Sue

> Sent: February 5, 2008 11:00 PM

>

> Subject: [ ] Liver Biopsy

>

>

>

> Has anyone in this group ever had a liver biopsy without IV

sedatives?

> If so, is it very painful?

> Sue

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I can confirm Harper's biopsy experience for my part. I had a

local anaesthetic, and beforehand I was told that if I were to

feel anything, it would most likely be the anaesthetic needle.

Well, I didn't feel that, nor did I feel the actual biopsy. The

instrument they used was some kind of automatic thingy that made

a similar noise as you would hear when having, say, your ears

pierced. That means it didn't involve sticking a long needle

slowly and manually into the liver - the needle was in and out in

a fraction of a second. They also used ultrasound to pinpoint the

right spot.

To be precise, there was a slight feeling of discomfort for a

couple of seconds, the same kind I've had with every biopsy (I've

had lung and stomach biopsies). It feels like a sudden pressure

or pull and only lasts for a second or so. I assume it's the

moment when they nip out the tiny sample of tissue. In my case

they actually had to take a second sample, as the first one

didn't look the way they wanted. The second time didn't feel any

worse than the first, and I didn't experience any discomfort

afterwards, either.

If it would make you feel better, you could ask if it's OK for

you to take some sort of oral sedative as well as some

painkillers before the operation.

Jaana,

Helsinki, Finland

7.2.2008 5:43, flatcat9@... kirjoitti:

> Some people have a lot of serious pain with the biopsy -- mostly following

> the biopsy, I think, rather than during it. However, they're definitely

> in the

> minority. I hope you're having an ultrasound guided biopsy, done by someone

> with experience. As I wrote earlier, for me the biopsy was just a twinge. I

> honestly didn't have even a moment of real pain, not even enough to make

> me catch

> my breath or consider saying " ouch. " Just about flu shot level of

> discomfort.

> I kept waiting for the doctor to start -- and he'd finished. Go prepared:

> arrange to have someone drive you home. You'll have to lie in a set

> position for quite a while after the biopsy, so use the bathroom

> beforehand and bring

> a book.

[Guest guest]

Sue, best wishes on the biopsy. Most likely, you'll not have difficulty with

it -- and you'll have taken a good first step toward figuring out how to make

your life work better.

I'm appalled at what you've had to deal with. It sounds as if things are

going to get better. You'll be in my thoughts.

Harper

**************

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5

48)

[Guest guest]

Harper, initially, 10 years ago, I refused to have a biopsy. The

diagnosis was based on symptoms, very high liver enzymes and positive

Anti Nuclear Antibody and Anti Smooth Muscle Antibody tests. At that

time I was told they couldn't do anything to help me and that I

should come back in 5 to 10 years and they'd 'make me comfortable' at

the 'end'.

So I changed to a very basic healthy lifestyle and reduced stress in

my life and seemingly, went into remission for about two years.

Then, stress reared it's ugly head again, and I developed arthritis

in my knees and thyroiditis, along with the AIH. I was very sick at

that time and in a lot of pain. However, I lived in an isolated

location and didn't get proper care.

I stopped working for a year, life became more settled and my health

settled down again. Then, four years ago I went back to fulltime work

and, after two years, I developed connective tissue disease, which

resulted in almost unbearable pain, mostly in the tendons of my

hands, feet, arms and shoulders, along with all the previous

conditions. So I was pretty sick and exhausted and gave up work

permanently. (Fortunately I have a very caring partner)

Now I'm in a continual state of inflammation in the liver, joints,

tendons, and thyroid. I'm not in continual pain though. It comes and

goes and is quite manageable, as long as I get enough rest. I've also

suddenly lost hearing in one ear which has never been explained, even

with scans.

I've had a lot of stomach discomfort as well during the last year,

but have tested negative to coeliac disease. I believe it was stress-

related, as my mother was dying. Since her passing, my symptoms have

eased.

I now live somewhere that I have access to specialist care and I feel

confident that I will be in good hands. I'm nervous about the side

effects of drugs, but may have to take the step.

The liver biopsy will be ultrasound guided. Thanks for your tips and

good wishes. I've found it very informative and helpful to hear of

everyone else's experiences.

I guess I'm just nervous at the moment (hence my rambling story!) but

I realise it's time to find out the status of my liver and see where

I go from there.

Your news is extremely encouraging and I'm very happy for you. It's

wonderful to hear such positive results.

Sue

>

> You said you haven't had a biopsy. Do you know the basis of your

AIH

> diagnosis? I'm just curious.

>

> If medication proves appropriate, as it does for almost everyone

with AIH, I

> hope you show swift improvement. From what I read, people usually

feel much

> better soon after beginning treatment.

>

> Some people have a lot of serious pain with the biopsy -- mostly

following

> the biopsy, I think, rather than during it. However, they're

definitely in the

> minority. I hope you're having an ultrasound guided biopsy, done by

someone

> with experience. As I wrote earlier, for me the biopsy was just a

twinge. I

> honestly didn't have even a moment of real pain, not even enough to

make me catch

> my breath or consider saying " ouch. " Just about flu shot level of

discomfort.

> I kept waiting for the doctor to start -- and he'd finished. Go

prepared:

> arrange to have someone drive you home. You'll have to lie in a

set

> position for quite a while after the biopsy, so use the bathroom

beforehand and bring

> a book.

>

> In a short time, you probably will be on your way to feeling a lot

better.

>

> I'm curious about which other autoimmune disorders you now have.

Quite

> often people with one AD develop another. Fortunately, AIH is one

that is highly

> treatable. The most common AD is celiac disease. You might want

to look into

> that. Keep in mind that about half the people with AD have no

obvious

> symptoms, that the blood test for it sometimes have false

negatives, and that testing

> must be done while one is eating a normal diet. CD used to be

considered a

> rare disease in the U.S., so many doctors still don't think of it

as a

> possibility. Should you want to learn more about CD, I'd be glad to

point you toward

> resources.

>

> Best wishes -- and keep us informed, if you wish.

>

> Harper

>

>

>

>

> In a message dated 2/6/08 7:27:45 PM, fnqhermitage@... writes:

>

>

> >

> > Thanks to everyone for your comments about Liver Biopsy.

> >

> > I was told 10 years ago that I have AIH. Since then I've developed

> > autoimmune disease in several other areas of my body as well. I've

> > never had a biopsy or any medications. Now I've agreed to have one

> > and I'm nervous about the pain, after so many years with pain of

one

> > sort or another.

> >

> > The hepatologist and a nurse at the hospital told me it's painful,

> > but they don't offer sedation here. No reason was given.

> >

> > Having read all your comments, I realise now that they want the

> > patient to be alert so that they can keep very still. I wonder why

> > medical people can't just explain things so simply.

> >

> > I was told I could take some pain medication before the

procedure, so

> > that's what I'll do, if only to keep me calm.

> >

> > Thanks again; I feel better about it all now.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

> **************

> Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.

>

> (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?

NCID=aolcmp003000000025

> 48)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Harper. I'll let you all know how things work out.

Regards

Sue

>

> Sue, best wishes on the biopsy. Most likely, you'll not have

difficulty with

> it -- and you'll have taken a good first step toward figuring out

how to make

> your life work better.

>

> I'm appalled at what you've had to deal with. It sounds as if

things are

> going to get better. You'll be in my thoughts.

>

> Harper

>

>

>

>

> **************

> Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.

>

> (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?

NCID=aolcmp003000000025

> 48)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I've had three or four, and will have another in 2010, and they were each

different. The first one was not the best one but the others went smooth as

butter. I used to have a link to a video of it being done... let me look.

I couldn't find the one I had but YouTube has plenty:

I think the above one will ease any concerns.

[Guest guest]

I'm a chicken......did themn both without sedation....oh....guess they tried

sedation the second time, but it didn't work. Will make certain I will have

good sedation next time! LOL-if not, I suppose I will survive!

Debby

[ ] Liver Biopsy

Has anyone in this group ever had a liver biopsy without IV sedatives?

If so, is it very painful?

Sue

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[Guest guest]

I'm glad your biopsy went well.

For others contemplating a biopsy, make sure (as I think you did) your doctor

knows of and approves of ANYTHING you take by mouth before a biopsy.

Harper

In a message dated 2/21/08 7:29:25 PM, fnqhermitage@... writes:

> I did take some strong pain tablets before the procedure and I'm glad I

> did because that helped me to remain calm and relaxed.

>

**************

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[Guest guest]

Yes Harper, you're quite right. I had the doctor's approval to take

some strong pain tablets beforehand and I reminded him and the nurse,

at the time, that I had in fact taken them.

Sue

>

> I'm glad your biopsy went well.

>

> For others contemplating a biopsy, make sure (as I think you did)

your doctor

> knows of and approves of ANYTHING you take by mouth before a biopsy.

>

> Harper

>

> In a message dated 2/21/08 7:29:25 PM, fnqhermitage@... writes:

>

>

> > I did take some strong pain tablets before the procedure and I'm

glad I

> > did because that helped me to remain calm and relaxed.

> >

>

>

>

>

> **************

> Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.

>

> (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-

campos-duffy/

> 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is wonderful news, Sue. We're glad for you, and it makes us all hopeful

for equally good outcomes.

Harper

**************

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[Guest guest]

Well, hello again everyone.

I received the results of my liver biopsy this week. After 10 years

with AIH and no meds, just a diet that suits me, I have no scarring,

minimal fatty tissue and only mild inflammation at present. The

report suggested the possiblity of PBC overlapping AIH.

The gastro specialist was very happy with this result and does not

want to put me on any meds. He told me to keep doing what I'm doing

and, with some luck, my liver could see me through another 30 years.

I feel very fortunate that my news is so positive. This has given me

renewed motivation to maintain my healthy and stress-free lifestyle.

Let's hope the luck holds out too!

Cheers

Sue

>

> Hi all,

>

> I had my liver biopsy the other day. It was quite bearable and I

thank

> you all very much for your words of encouragement.

>

> I did take some strong pain tablets before the procedure and I'm

glad I

> did because that helped me to remain calm and relaxed. (In fact I

was

> really 'zoned out') Afterwards I had a couple of episodes of cold

> sweats and gripping pain, but they didn't last too long. Other than

> that, I was only in a bit of discomfort for about a day.

>

> Results won't come back for a couple of weeks, but I'll be sure to

keep

> you posted.

>

> Warmest regards

> Sue

>

[Guest guest]

I am so happy for you Sue keep it up.

LOVE IS IN ALL THINGS AND IN ALL THINGS IS LOVE

[ ] Re: Liver Biopsy

Well, hello again everyone.

I received the results of my liver biopsy this week. After 10 years

with AIH and no meds, just a diet that suits me, I have no scarring,

minimal fatty tissue and only mild inflammation at present. The

report suggested the possiblity of PBC overlapping AIH.

The gastro specialist was very happy with this result and does not

want to put me on any meds. He told me to keep doing what I'm doing

and, with some luck, my liver could see me through another 30 years.

I feel very fortunate that my news is so positive. This has given me

renewed motivation to maintain my healthy and stress-free lifestyle.

Let's hope the luck holds out too!

Cheers

Sue

>

> Hi all,

>

> I had my liver biopsy the other day. It was quite bearable and I

thank

> you all very much for your words of encouragement.

>

> I did take some strong pain tablets before the procedure and I'm

glad I

> did because that helped me to remain calm and relaxed. (In fact I

was

> really 'zoned out') Afterwards I had a couple of episodes of cold

> sweats and gripping pain, but they didn't last too long. Other than

> that, I was only in a bit of discomfort for about a day.

>

> Results won't come back for a couple of weeks, but I'll be sure to

keep

> you posted.

>

> Warmest regards

> Sue

>

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[Guest guest]

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I had my liver biopsy the other day. It was quite bearable and I

> thank

> > you all very much for your words of encouragement.

> >

> > I did take some strong pain tablets before the procedure and I'm

> glad I

> > did because that helped me to remain calm and relaxed. (In fact I

> was

> > really 'zoned out') Afterwards I had a couple of episodes of cold

> > sweats and gripping pain, but they didn't last too long. Other

than

> > that, I was only in a bit of discomfort for about a day.

> >

> > Results won't come back for a couple of weeks, but I'll be sure

to

> keep

> > you posted.

> >

> > Warmest regards

> > Sue

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It is great to hear good news. Keep up the good behavior, and you probably

WILL do well for the next 30 years too!

Thanks for sharing.

Clara from OR, dx99

>

> Well, hello again everyone.

>

> I received the results of my liver biopsy this week. After 10 years

> with AIH and no meds, just a diet that suits me, I have no

scarring,

> minimal fatty tissue and only mild inflammation at present. The

> report suggested the possiblity of PBC overlapping AIH.

[Guest guest]

Hello JC Lady,

My biopsy report said I also have indications of PBC, with one small

granuloma in the portal tract. I think it's fairly common for AIH and

PBC to overlap. I have yet to look up info on PBC, but I'm sure that

fatigue goes along with most, if not all, autoimmune conditions. It's

the one thing that stops me from going back to work and can be hard

for other people to understand when I look so healthy! You have my

empathy.

Sue

> > >

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > I had my liver biopsy the other day. It was quite bearable and

I

> > thank

> > > you all very much for your words of encouragement.

> > >

> > > I did take some strong pain tablets before the procedure and

I'm

> > glad I

> > > did because that helped me to remain calm and relaxed. (In fact

I

> > was

> > > really 'zoned out') Afterwards I had a couple of episodes of

cold

> > > sweats and gripping pain, but they didn't last too long. Other

> than

> > > that, I was only in a bit of discomfort for about a day.

> > >

> > > Results won't come back for a couple of weeks, but I'll be sure

> to

> > keep

> > > you posted.

> > >

> > > Warmest regards

> > > Sue

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Initially, 10 years ago, the doctors told me they could do nothing

for me and to come back in 5 to 10 years and they would 'make me

comfortable'. I refused a biopsy at that stage because I didn't see

that it was going to achieve anything for me.

So I went away in a state of shock and anger, determined that I could

do better than the docs had said I would. I believed that stress had

played a major role in triggering my illness, so I got rid of as much

stress as possible, including quitting my demanding fulltime job and

any people who made my life harder. I did it tough financially,

working part-time, but I was happier and that's very important for

good health.

My diet consisted of anything that didn't upset my digestive system

and was based on " The Liver Cleansing Diet " . As time has passed and

the AIH has flared up again, triggered by stress, I've changed my

diet as required and I no longer work.

Now I eat almost no wheat, no dairy products, no alcohol or coffee,

no chicken, pork or farmed meat. I find it very important not to eat

too much at a sitting or overload my system with too much starchy

food. I have lots of small meals.

What I do eat is lots of fruit & vegies, soy products, fresh or

tinned fish, kangaroo meat about once a month (it's hormone and

chemical free and very lean), rice cakes, wheat free pasta and

crackers, herbal teas, fresh juices and smoothies. I sweeten foods

with stevia and keep processed sugar to a minimum.

Fat is the biggest problem, because it causes me serious liver pain.

So I'm very careful to avoid fats, but try to have enough food

containing the good Omega 3 & 6 fats. I have a couple of teaspoons of

crushed nuts and seeds most days.

For the last three months, I've had almost no pain, but when I have

had pain from my liver, joints or tendons, pain medication has never

had any effect for me. So I've tried to find ways to cope with it,

such as relaxation, rest, gentle movement, warm bath etc.

I do avoid medications because my liver doesn't cope with them, but I

was prepared to take some Prednisone if necessary after my recent

biopsy; fortunately the report was better than I could have hoped for.

The Rheumatologist told me to avoid supplements and drugs because my

immune system is so unstable. However, I believe I have benefited

from a daily dose of Milk Thistle and an occasional vitamin B when

stress comes along. The only drug I ever take is paracetamol if I

have a headache or really need a good night's sleep.

I've never had enough money or seen the need for a practitioner to

help, but I believe it's really important to enjoy each day as much

as you can; find ways to be creative, have some fun and keep life

simple.

By not taking steroids and immunosuppressants I've had a couple of

quite long periods (up to 2 years) where my liver has been inflamed

to varying degrees. This isn't a good thing and is the reason why I

was willing to have the recent biopsy and possibly start on some

meds. So it's very encouraging to know that the liver can cope with

quite a lot. Listen to the doctors, but make health and lifestyle

decisions that feel right for you and your body.

I hope I haven't bored you to tears!

Regards

Sue

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I had my liver biopsy the other day. It was quite bearable and I

> thank

> > you all very much for your words of encouragement.

> >

> > I did take some strong pain tablets before the procedure and I'm

> glad I

> > did because that helped me to remain calm and relaxed. (In fact I

> was

> > really 'zoned out') Afterwards I had a couple of episodes of cold

> > sweats and gripping pain, but they didn't last too long. Other

than

> > that, I was only in a bit of discomfort for about a day.

> >

> > Results won't come back for a couple of weeks, but I'll be sure

to

> keep

> > you posted.

> >

> > Warmest regards

> > Sue

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

> Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> http://www./r/hs

>

>

[Guest guest]

hey Vickie, thanx for your support.

it does help knowing some one out there can relate to the horrible

things us heppers have to go through.

keep writing

luv to all shell

>

> , I'm sorry to hear you had a bad biopsy.  Mine was rough

too, but not that bad.  I can relate about not getting another one,

over my dead body type of thing unless they give me something.  I've

already marked that hospital off my list of places to go if ever.  I

hope you don't have any side effects from it.  You are in my

prayers.  Hugs, Vickie

>

>

>

> Re: Liver Biopsy

>

>

> ---Hi Vickie, well I made it. What a horrible procedure. When they

> inserted that #16 needle into my side, something happened and I was

> beside myself with pain,so he stopped and did it again. I guess

they

> punctured something and I had a bleed. The pain was out of this

> world. So I was on close observation for 24 hrs in emergency. I was

> very thankful to have such a wonderful surgeon as my Dr. Needless

to

> say I made it, and now just have to lay low for 2-3 days. The only

> way I would have another is if they put me under with a gereral

anest.

>

> Hope to get the results in a week.

> shell

>

> >

> > Welcome, .  You are in my prayers.  Hugs, VickieG

> >

>

> >

> >

> > Anyone or everyone, I'm Geno 1, Dx 2000 nonresponder to

the

> > first go around. I am finally getting another biopsy, this has

> taken so

> > long to happen where I live.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You are most welcome, . I felt like I was the only one to suffer through the bx. Hugs, Vickie

[HepatitisCSupportG roupForDummies] Re: Liver Biopsy> > > ---Hi Vickie, well I made it. What a horrible procedure. When they > inserted that #16 needle into my side, something happened and I was > beside myself with pain,so he stopped and did it again. I guess they > punctured something and I had a bleed. The pain was out of this > world. So I was on close observation for 24 hrs in emergency. I was > very thankful to have such a wonderful surgeon as my Dr. Needless to > say I made it, and now just have to lay low for 2-3 days. The only > way I would

have another is if they put me under with a gereral anest.> > Hope to get the results in a week.> shell> > >> > Welcome, . You are in my prayers. Hugs, VickieG> > >> > > > > > Anyone or everyone, I'm Geno 1, Dx 2000 nonresponder to the > > first go around. I am finally getting another biopsy, this has > taken so > > long to happen where I live. > >>

[Guest guest]

Jackie, I can't believe how long you have waited for your biopsy results! That

is terrible!

After reading your message I am wondering how many people get misdiagnoses of

PBC and autoimmune Hepatitis? After my biopsy last year my tissue was sent to

one pathologist who said I had autoimmune hepatitis but that he saw a strand of

something and he was unclear about it, so my tissue was sent to another

pathologist and he said that I have PBC. My liver enzymes are higher now,

especially AST. My liver doctor said the appearance of my biopsy was that I was

positive for both but that he hoped with my next biopsy it will be more clear. I

noticed that you were diagnosed with PBC and then autoimmune hepatitis I wonder

how often this happens? And I wonder if you can have both?

I also have Lupus and Sjogrens and in the last 5 years I have had bouts of SIRS

systemic inflammatory response syndrome. The SIRS has been a major problem for

me, and the most life threatening. But we are finally getting more of a handle

on that. When my fever goes up to 101 I start on high doses of steroids. My last

one in January I did not have to go to the hospital but my fever reached 103 and

stayed there for a couple of days. My doctor has since told me that I should

have gone to the hospital. If it had gone any higher than 103 I would have. But

after the fever brakes it takes a good month for me to get back to what is

normal for me now. It is a long recovery. Massive amounts of steroids seems to

be what it requires. Since SIRS goes with autoimmune diseases I suggest that if

you get a fast fever with vomiting go to your nearest ER. When I get it I am

always to tired to go to a doctor. I am very fatigued. Luckily I have had people

around me at the

time that forced me to go. The fever comes on very quickly. I am usually

vomiting first and then notice that I have a fever. It comes on very fast with

little warning. My fever has gone from 101 to 104.9 in one hour. That is how

fast it moves. I have had 6 bouts in 5 years. I seem to have them more often

now.

I know just one more thing that can go wrong with our bodies!

Have a good day,

Suzanne