Re: Rationing

January 13, 2010

Banking is very highly regulated and therefore not very competitive at

all. In fact, offering customers competitive returns on their deposited

funds is against the law per regulation. If this regulation was reduced

dramatically, the banks would have to become more competitive (and

eliminate the Federal Reserve completely - they are a private banking

concern with little accountability). The Federal Reserve just announced

very very high profits based on their ability to randomly print money,

charge interest on this imaginary money that is lowering the value of

the US dollar and increasing the costs of goods and services to

everyone. You won't find democrats condemning the profits of the

Federal Reserve since it has a fairy tail deal to manipulate the entire

economy for their own personal profits and pull many of the strings of

congress. In other words, the FED is the source of inflation and

inflation only benefits the rich.

People negotiate their pay packages and what they get paid is and always

should be a private agreement between the employee and employer. If the

employer overpays their employees, they will go out of business and they

should go out of business. Regulation prevents true competition between

banking concerns and raises the cost of banking for all. End the

regulation - most of it and you'll see these high pay packages go down.

Steve

On 1/13/2010 8:32 AM, Roni Molin wrote:

> Right this minute, since I haven't even looked, the only one I can think of,

which is not even an insurance company is Goldman Sachs that just gave out

$10Billion in bonuses. Is that obscene enough for all of us?

>

> Roni

> <>Just because something

> isn't seen doesn't mean it's

> not there<>

>

>>

>> From: <res075oh@...<mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

>> Subject: Re: Rationing

>> hypothyroidism

>> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

>> Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 9:08 PM

>>

>> Insurance companies are business. If a company is to be fair [and stay

>> in business] then the charge to provide a service or product needs to

>> accurately reflect the cost of same.

>>

>> Companies that sell automobile " extended warranties " or " service

>> contracts " are also businesses. Would you really expect a company to

>> charge the same for a new Honda as for a 1949 Ford for a one year

>> extended warranty? Suppose instead that both cars are two year old

>> Hondas but one is pristine and the other looks like it's been the loser

>> in a demolition derby and the engine is smoking and knocking and various

>> fluids are spilling from underneath. If you were the company owner

>> would you charge the same for the cream puff extended warranty as for

>> the demolition derby loser?

>>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

January 13, 2010

,

You wrote:

>

> ... I strongly disagree about the issue of choice. This argument about death

> panels is disinformation to turn people against health care reform. I

> personally wish the bill had stronger cost control measures, but one thing

> it is not going to do end choice in end of life treatment decisions. Also

> the current bill retains all power in the hands of the insurance industry,

> the gov't is not at all in control of it, so that's another piece of the

> disinformation.

Complete nonsense.

The bill sets up the National Health Care Board, which “will approve or

reject treatment for patients based on the cost per treatment divided by

the number of years the patient will benefit from the treatment.”

Exactly how in the world can you claim this will not affect end of life

treatment? How is this not rationing?

The bill also creates the Federal Coordinating Council For Comparative

Effectiveness Research, the purpose of which is “to slow the development

of new medications and technologies in order to reduce costs.” Just what

we need, no new advances.

Then there is the National Coordinator For Health Information and

Technology, who will “monitor treatments being delivered to make sure

doctors and hospitals are strictly following government guidelines that

are deemed appropriate.” It goes on to say… “Doctors and hospitals not

adhering to guidelines will face penalties.” This does not just apply to

people on the plan but all doctors and hospitals. Penalties will include

large fines and possible imprisonment.

Section 102 makes it illegal to keep your private insurance, if your

status changes, if you lose or change your job, retire from your job and

become a senior, graduate from college and get your first job. Yes,

illegal. So much for keeping your current insurance.

Then there is the requirement that every employer “shall pay an employer

shared responsibility payment,” which increases for each additional

employee in excess of 50. Employers must deduct the individual shared

responsibility payment from wages “as and when paid.” This amount is not

allowed as a deduction from the employer’s taxable income. How likely is

your employer to continue to contribute to your insurance under these

circumstances?

Instead of making bland pronouncements about what is disinformation, I

suggest you actually read some of the bill.

Chuck

January 13, 2010

" Society " is NOT PRODUCTIVE. Only people are productive. Government

that tries to manipulate the productivity of people and confiscate their

output effectively decreases the productive of PEOPLE. Society is a

group of people BUT ultimate it is people and only people that produce.

Governments don't produce, they only consume and waste.

Government does not spend my money better than I do myself. People who

spend other peoples money never do a better job than individuals that

spend their own money.

The only legit purpose of government is band together to protect me and

your life and property from those who would take it in full or in part.

Anthing more than that and the government becomes the the plunder,

destroyer, and oppressor and the primary source of theft and fraud.

Steve

On 1/13/2010 8:42 AM, Roni Molin wrote:

> Steve the discussion was about whether or not you benefit from the things

people in society make or do. Obviously you do, but are too stubborn to admit

it. By the way, which highways do you know or travel on that the government has

not subsidized in some way, or an airport that hasn't gotten any government help

or an airplance coompany the government hasn't given huge contracts to, or a

food company that is not subject to the (albeit antiquated) rules of the FDA,

etc. I still think you are living in an illusion. In 2010, there are no men that

are totally independant of everything. There are things you do get becvause they

are produced in this country and subject to the laws thereof, no matter how few.

>

> It's nice that you've done some travelling, I have too. So tell me, from all

your travelling, which country " does it right " ? You evidently don't think the

United States does it right, so I'm interested to know which one you think does?

>

> Roni

> <>Just because something

> isn't seen doesn't mean it's

> not there<>

>

>>>

>>> From: <res075oh@...>

>>> Subject: Re: Rationing

>>> hypothyroidism

>>> Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 9:19 PM

>>>

>>> It is the theories of socialism that have failed. Even when the

>>> government assumed and applied the " right " to murder millions of their

>>> own citizens they still failed.

>>>

>>> Democracy will fail too, I'm afraid. When those who do not produce find

>>> out they can vote themselves an ever greater share of the income of

>>> those who do produce a point will be reached that those who do produce

>>> will be reduced beyond that necessary to support the society. At that

>>> point it will collapse. Most likely a dictator will then take over by

>>> promising to take care of everyone's needs and so many will naively

>>> follow that it becomes possible.

>>>

>>> Obamacare is just one of many steps in that direction. Free medical

>>> care for everyone, and no costs involved. How could anyone be so foolish...

>>>

>>> .

>>

>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

January 13, 2010

Do you not understand economics at all? Banks are only able to waste

money and not engage in profitable efforts if the government regulation

protects their total mis-management. No investor would invest in banks

or deposit their funds in banks so it can be just given out as bonuses.

As it is, banks should be paying out profits to their investors as

dividends and to their depositors as interest and employees who are more

effective at raising that bottom line should be appropriately

compensated for effective performance in a way that puts managers in

competition with each other and drive down compensation costs.

If I invest $1000 in an enterprise and it gives me $100 in dividends a

the end of the year, excellent. If that same enterprise highers a top

manager and my $1000 investment is made to produce $200 in profits and I

only get $125 or those profits and the manager gets $75 (adds up to

billions over many investments), I'm happy again since now, I'm getting

MORE dividends on my investment. If however I find another company that

has an equally good manager and they agree to take only $25 of the $200

profits and return $175 to me, I'm going to move my money. THE PROBLEM

IS THAT REGULATION DOESN'T " T ALLOW ME TO SEE PERFORMANCE AND IT

DECREASES PERFORMANCE LEAVING INVESTORS OFTEN IN THE DARK FOR THE MOST

PART. END THE REGULATION AND NOT-TRANSPARENCY IN COSTS AND PROFITS AND

IT WILL DRIVE COSTS DOWN, PROFITS UP, AND WILL DRIVE MANAGERS OUT OF THE

BUSINESS AS THEIR COMPENSATION GOES DOWN UNTIL THE BEST COMBINATION OF

PROFITS, INVESTMENTS, DIVIDENDS, AND MANAGEMENT COMPENSATION IS

ACHIEVED. Managers who are not able to fit in to the optimum natural

free market compensation structure are using their natural skills in the

most effective means possible and the result is less economic

productivity, a loss for all.

YE gads, figure out economics and how regulation perverts human nature

to maximize peoples personal wealth and freedom and allows people with

special access to regulatory creation to profit obscenely and without

being productive.

Steve

On 1/13/2010 8:51 AM, Roni Molin wrote:

> That's a heck of a lot better than the banks are giving. All they're doing now

is taking in billions of dollars and disributing it to their own people instead

of giving loans. The credit card interest rates have long passed usury, and they

pay no interest. It doesn't matter any more if you do or don't have a savings

account, there's no interest being earned on it.

>

> Roni

> <>Just because something

> isn't seen doesn't mean it's

> not there<>

>

>>>

>>> From: <res075oh@...<mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

>>> Subject: Re: Rationing

>>> hypothyroidism

>>> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

>>> Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 9:08 PM

>>>

>>> Insurance companies are business. If a company is to be fair [and stay

>>> in business] then the charge to provide a service or product needs to

>>> accurately reflect the cost of same.

>>>

>>> Companies that sell automobile " extended warranties " or " service

>>> contracts " are also businesses. Would you really expect a company to

>>> charge the same for a new Honda as for a 1949 Ford for a one year

>>> extended warranty? Suppose instead that both cars are two year old

>>> Hondas but one is pristine and the other looks like it's been the loser

>>> in a demolition derby and the engine is smoking and knocking and various

>>> fluids are spilling from underneath. If you were the company owner

>>> would you charge the same for the cream puff extended warranty as for

>>> the demolition derby loser?

>>>

>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

January 13, 2010

Hi, welcome to the group. Are you having difficulties with salt and/or edema?

What have you been diagnosed with? If you have test results you could post them

here along with the ranges which are all to be found on the test sheets. If you

don't have copies you can get them with a simple phone call to the doctor's

office. Once they are posted here, we will be better able to tell what is going

on.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: Trish <fielddot@...>

Subject: Re: Rationing

hypothyroidism

Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:56 AM

>... you will eventually destroy the earth.

Maybe with the exception of mega atomic bombs and/or impact from an

extraterrestrial source (e.g. planet X, or comet swarm) IMO it is an arrogance

to think that man can destroy this planet; that is not to say that humans are

making it a very inhospitable place for human (and other) life. Not very

intelligent are we

One truth is that there are far tooooo many of us ...humans ...perhaps the

culling has already begun ...the scam H1N1 pandemic, gmos etc. etc. The current

health reform debate seems to be just another distraction to the truth of

over-population. Another distraction is the climate scam.

Trish

>

> In one of your emails you laid out a scenario whereby the people who make the

most money would be taxed to theoretical oblivion. There is also a scenario

whereby the

> people who make the least will cease to exist eventually because of illness or

death

> and there will be no one to support the 5% who make the most money. Who will

pick

> the produce, make the cars, build the roads, run the trains, lay the tracks,

pick up the

> garbage, etc. All people need to make a decent living in order to live. All

levels of society are needed for the society to continue to exist. Rome forgot

that, France forgot that. That's why those societies ceased to be big powers.

It's the same with the eco system. If you destroy large parts of the earth's

natural recources, you will eventually destroy the earth.

------------------------------------

January 13, 2010

, of course this gun issue is all about felons. Do you think anyone gives a

darn if you have a gun in your home for protection, or you are a hunting

enthusiast or you belong to a gun club and do target shooting? (By the way, I'm

a pretty good shot) None of that is what the issue is about, and the gun lobby

has thrown up all this " you're taking away my rights "

crap to obscure the issue. People are being killed every day by people with guns

and absolutely no one even knows who they are, other than the fact that they are

criminals.

If you want to keep a gun, be my guest. If you are well intentioned and don't

intend to kill anybody for sport or because you don't like what they said to

you, there should be no objection to registering a gun.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: Rationing

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 9:24 PM

>

> That was written by Crystal; not me.

>

> I personally know of a lot of people and types of people I think

> probably have about as much business with a gun as I do with a space

> shuttle. HOWEVER: Unlike my liberal opponents even when I personally

> disagree with something I still respect the constitution and the

> constitutional rights of those who I think shouldn't be allowed on the

> trigger end of any weapon. They have a second amendment right, period;

> and that settles it.

>

------------------------------------

January 13, 2010

Ouch - how can someone be so wrong?

Top 1% of income earners pay 40.42% of all federal personal income tax.

Top 5% of income earners pay 60.63% of all federal personal income tax.

Top 10% of all income earners pay 72.22% of all federal personal income tax.

Top 25% of all income earners pay 86.59% of all federal personal income tax.

Top 50% of all income earners pay 97.11% of all federal personal income tax.

Bottom 50% of all income earners pay 2.89% of all federal personal

income tax.

See here <http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6> how the percentage

of taxes paid by the top wage earners has been going up year by year.

Data for tax year 2007. Income for the top wage earners are down

dramatically and most people have lost 50% of the net worth since that

time. Government expenses have gone up (they've added lots of new jobs)

and the average government worker is paid $75,000 per year (give or take

a $1000) and the average American makes $36,000 per capita. Government

employees shouldn't make more money that the people who pay their

salaries and federal compensation costs should be cut in HALF and

retirement benefits should be no better than the average American.

Also, federal employees get sweetheart retirement deals which all the

people who don't get such deals have to pay for.

Why do you people love the federal government so much; they screw you up

over a dozen ways from Sunday and then you believe them when they assure

you it's for your benefit to be raped and plundered financially.

Steve

On 1/12/2010 4:45 PM, Baker wrote:

> This is analysis by someone else, not the CBO. The most recent information

> on tax burdens shows that middle and lower income people pay more of a

> percentage of their income in taxes than upper income people do, by a large

> percentage.

>

> --

>

> At 03:30 PM 1/12/2010, you wrote:

>> Roni, the Congressional Budget reported that the top 5% of earners in

>> the US pay 50% of all taxes. Do you not call that giving back? The

>> bottom 50% pay virtually no income tax. It's old data but I doubt it's

>> changed much:

>> .

>>> Below is an analysis of Congressional Budget Office (CB0) report

>>> entitled " Preliminary Estimates of Effective Tax Rates " (07-Sep-1999).

>>> The raw numbers can be scrutinized here:

>>>

>>> http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=1545 & from=4 & sequence=0

>>> <http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=1545 & from=4 & sequence=0>

>>>

>>> All I did was try to make heads or tails of the data by plotting it

>>> and extracting the most salient data. The /*Income* Tax Burden/ is

>>> defined simply as who pays *U.S*. *income* *taxes* in the form of

>>> individual and corporate *income* *taxes*, payroll *taxes*, and

>>> federal excise *taxes*. Based on this information, the following

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

January 13, 2010

,

I said,

> >Again, that is at least partly because these companies are not allowed

> >to compete. In the states with the most expensive rates, there

> >comparable programs that cost less than half, but they are simply

> >prohibited by state law from selling coverage in those states.

To which you replied:

>

> This isn't true. Right now the insurance companies are protected from

> competition by a law that excludes them from anti-monopoly business

> behavior. They desperately want to keep that law in place.

You have no idea what you are talking about. In 2006, an AMA report said

that no less than 43 states have sweet-heart arrangements in place with

health insurance companies that are effectively in restraint of free

trade and would ordinarily draw monopoly prosecution from the Federal

Trade Commission. Instead they seem more intent on going after doctors.

Part of the confusion about this arises from the concentration of

multiple company names under broad umbrella companies. In 38 states,

UnitedHealth Group and Wellpoint together command over 57% of the

market. In 15 states, a single company gets over 60%. That kind of

concentration is not achieved by clever TV ads and logos on pencils.

They negotiate deals with the state governments, and in return, their

competitors are excluded from the state or hit with extra fees.

If you work for the state government in one of those states, your health

insurance costs less than average. If you work for anyone else, you pay

a lot more, and have little choice about which company you can use.

Chuck

January 13, 2010

Why are we talking about guns on the HYPOTHYROID forum?

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote:

>

> , of course this gun issue is all about felons. Do you think anyone

> gives a darn if you have a gun in your home for protection, or you are a

> hunting enthusiast or you belong to a gun club and do target shooting? (By

> the way, I'm a pretty good shot) None of that is what the issue is about,

> and the gun lobby has thrown up all this " you're taking away my rights "

> crap to obscure the issue. People are being killed every day by people with

> guns and absolutely no one even knows who they are, other than the fact that

> they are criminals.

> If you want to keep a gun, be my guest. If you are well intentioned and

> don't intend to kill anybody for sport or because you don't like what they

> said to you, there should be no objection to registering a gun.

>

> Roni

> <>Just because something

> isn't seen doesn't mean it's

> not there<>

>

> >

> > From: <res075oh@... <res075oh%40verizon.net> <mailto:

> res075oh%40verizon.net <res075oh%2540verizon.net>>>

> > Subject: Re: Rationing

> > hypothyroidism <hypothyroidism%40>

> > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40<hypothyroidism%2540>

> >

> > Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 9:24 PM

> >

> > That was written by Crystal; not me.

> >

> > I personally know of a lot of people and types of people I think

> > probably have about as much business with a gun as I do with a space

> > shuttle. HOWEVER: Unlike my liberal opponents even when I personally

> > disagree with something I still respect the constitution and the

> > constitutional rights of those who I think shouldn't be allowed on the

> > trigger end of any weapon. They have a second amendment right, period;

> > and that settles it.

> >

>

> ------------------------------------

>

January 13, 2010

Why are you reading this thread when you can filter it?

Hypothyroid people have a right to defend their natural rights too!

Steve

On 1/13/2010 1:20 PM, Daisy Bonilla wrote:

> Why are we talking about guns on the HYPOTHYROID forum?

>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

January 13, 2010

I was going to get into this since your facts on the risks of 100s of

millions of guns in private hands are way way off. Private gun

ownership is very very very very safe. There are hundreds of things

that are more dangerous like taking Tylenol, pools, etc, that concern

the people who think self defense should be illegal not at all and that

people who want to exercise their free speech rights should buy a

license from the government and have a background check to make sure

they have never said anything but positive things about government and

always voted for the " right " party.

There are 10s of thousands of people in Utah with carry permits and the

number of deaths from criminal activity or accidents from those people

are almost ZERO if not ZERO.

Perhaps Utah's are more ethical, moral, or better shots than those in

Seattle but I doubt it.

Steve

On 1/12/2010 11:31 PM, Roni Molin wrote:

> I live in the Seattle area and there have recently been 6 cops killed by

people who walked up to them and shot them. There have been children kidnapped

and raped and murdered. There have been home invasions and burglaries. There

have been stolen cars, clerks held up at gun point, and all kinds of things

going on that I don't think you have where you are.

> There is plenty of rural land around here too, and the people that live on

that land have guns and raise food and are very independant. But, they, like

you, are not likely to go into town and shoot the place up. However, there have

been quite a number of shootings in families or of spouses or girlfriends or

boyfriends. There have been teenagers who walked into malls around here and just

started shooting up the place.

>

> If you live in a rural, quiet area with lots of land and limited contact with

strangers you can pretty much do what you want. I think you might feel

differently if a bunch of strangers came into your area and started

indiscriminately shooting people.

>

> Roni

> <>Just because something

> isn't seen doesn't mean it's

> not there<>

>

>>>

>>> From: Crystal<sweetnwright@...<mailto:sweetnwright%40cox.net>>

>>> Subject: Re: Re: Rationing

>>> hypothyroidism

>>> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

>>> Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 5:07 PM

>>>

>>> I bet you wouldn't think that was smart if an intruder broke into your

>>> house

>>> or the home of somebody you loved and they were not able to protect

>>> themselves. I watched my mother get raped and almost murdered when I

>>> was 3

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

January 14, 2010

Steve you don't mean that you wont travel Amtrak do you? How un_American

LOL (J/K). One of the greatest examples of govt waste IMHO!

cw

-- Re: Rationing

>> hypothyroidism

>> Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 9:19 PM

>>

>> It is the theories of socialism that have failed. Even when the

>> government assumed and applied the " right " to murder millions of their

>> own citizens they still failed.

>>

>> Democracy will fail too, I'm afraid. When those who do not produce find

>> out they can vote themselves an ever greater share of the income of

>> those who do produce a point will be reached that those who do produce

>> will be reduced beyond that necessary to support the society. At that

>> point it will collapse. Most likely a dictator will then take over by

>> promising to take care of everyone's needs and so many will naively

>> follow that it becomes possible.

>>

>> Obamacare is just one of many steps in that direction. Free medical

>> care for everyone, and no costs involved. How could anyone be so foolish.

..

>>

>> .

>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

January 14, 2010

Trish, I very recently read that the entire population of the Earth can fit

into Texas without being shoulder to shoulder. The Earth is not

overpopulated, that is a lie. Actually people are having less children

which is a major problem. If there are more elderly people than younger

people who can help take care of the rest of society bad things happen. I

agree that the climate is not warming us to oblivion. I think its sad that

there is a mound f trash in the ocean as big as Texas though.

CW

-- Re: Rationing

>... you will eventually destroy the earth.

Maybe with the exception of mega atomic bombs and/or impact from an

extraterrestrial source (e.g. planet X, or comet swarm) IMO it is an

arrogance to think that man can destroy this planet; that is not to say that

humans are making it a very inhospitable place for human (and other) life.

Not very intelligent are we

One truth is that there are far tooooo many of us ...humans ...perhaps the

culling has already begun ...the scam H1N1 pandemic, gmos etc. etc. The

current health reform debate seems to be just another distraction to the

truth of over-population. Another distraction is the climate scam.

Trish

>

> In one of your emails you laid out a scenario whereby the people who make

the most money would be taxed to theoretical oblivion. There is also a

scenario whereby the

> people who make the least will cease to exist eventually because of

illness or death

> and there will be no one to support the 5% who make the most money. Who

will pick

> the produce, make the cars, build the roads, run the trains, lay the

tracks, pick up the

> garbage, etc. All people need to make a decent living in order to live.

All levels of society are needed for the society to continue to exist. Rome

forgot that, France forgot that. That's why those societies ceased to be big

powers. It's the same with the eco system. If you destroy large parts of the

earth's natural recources, you will eventually destroy the earth.

January 14, 2010

I would like to add that the process for getting licensed is ridiculous!

CW

-- Re: Rationing

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 9:24 PM

>

> That was written by Crystal; not me.

>

> I personally know of a lot of people and types of people I think

> probably have about as much business with a gun as I do with a space

> shuttle. HOWEVER: Unlike my liberal opponents even when I personally

> disagree with something I still respect the constitution and the

> constitutional rights of those who I think shouldn't be allowed on the

> trigger end of any weapon. They have a second amendment right, period;

> and that settles it.

>

January 14, 2010

Actually it's a good analogy. In a free market where condition matters

if both parties in an exchange don't consider " preexisting conditions "

then there's at least one dummy involved. If you're considering buying

a used car wouldn't you consider the condition [preexisting condition]

to be important? If you owned a company selling life insurance would

you charge the same for a 20 year old as for a 90 year old?

..

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

> <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Rationing>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

> Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:00 pm (PST)

>

> That's not the same thing. If you had a house, in whatever condition

> the insurance company should have to sell you insurance for the value

> of your house whether that was a million dollars or one. However, no

> house, no insurance. As far as health care and preexisting conditions,

> there is still a living body that needs insurance. However if the

> person was dead, then the insurance company should not have to sell

> the survivors health insurance for their deceased relative.

>

> Roni

> <>Just because something

> isn't seen doesn't mean it's

> not there<>

>

> > That's the whole point of universal healthcare. The insurance

> companies would have to share the whole country, and would not be able

> to rip people off or deny them coverage for pre existing conditions as

> they do today.

> >

> > Roni

January 14, 2010

I'm afraid we've already decided that won't happen. When you go to

Walmart to buy a faucet washer and one made in China is 50 cents and one

made in Michigan is $2 which one will you buy?

..

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

> <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Rationing>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

> Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:04 pm (PST)

>

> Yes, that used to be true in the states, but that was before

> outsourcing took the jobs away from our people and sent them all over

> the world.Those jobs should be brought back to the United States.

>

> Roni

January 14, 2010

I don't know how much influence had on it, but it was AFAIK

pretty much a liberal undertaking. That means mostly democrats.

..

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

> <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Rationing>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

> Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:06 pm (PST)

>

> Since I can't stand , I'm on your side with this one. He's the

> most un American American President I can think of.

>

> Roni

> <>Just because something

> isn't seen doesn't mean it's

> not there<>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: Rationing

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 9:57 PM

>

> The banks failed specifically because the loans they made under the

> guidelines of the regulators controlling the implementation of the CRA

> of 1977 were not fiscally sound. That can be laid directly to the

> Community Reconstruction Act of 1977 and the implementation that

> followed and to nothing else. Everything else in the chain of sordid

> events spring directly from that. Yet another liberal boondoggle for

> which they will never take credit; or even have it pointed out by much

> of the liberal press.

>

January 14, 2010

After three day of intermittent severe abdominal cramps and upon the

advice of two nurses [they thought it was appendicitis] my wife went to

the emergency room in November. After examination and tests the verdict

was diverticulitis and we went home after she was give two pills and one

or two prescriptions. The bill was well over $13,000. The insurance

company contract with the hospital immediately removed over $12,000 from

the bill. She will have to pay over $400.

..

>

> Posted by: " Steve " dudescholar4@...

> <mailto:dudescholar4@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Rationing>

> dudescholar <dudescholar>

>

> Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:11 pm (PST)

>

> That's because the law requires business to provide service regardless

> of ability to pay. That's why they charge the uninsured 3-5 times the

> going rate to make up for the people who cannot pay. It's the uninsured

> who end up paying for this law.

>

> Steve

January 14, 2010

Like you said, it's not an insurance company. And bonuses show up on

the ledger as a business expense, not as profit.

..

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

> <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Rationing>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

> Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:33 am (PST)

>

> Right this minute, since I haven't even looked, the only one I can

> think of, which is not even an insurance company is Goldman Sachs that

> just gave out $10Billion in bonuses. Is that obscene enough for all

> of us?

>

> Roni

> <>Just because something

> isn't seen doesn't mean it's

> not there<>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: Rationing

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 11:03 PM

>

> My analogy is accurate, but Steve's is much better and easier to

> understand.

>

> Anyway, I'm glad we're having this conversation because I've been

> looking all over for the insurance companies with obscene profits. You

> see, only a company with obscene profits can pay obscene dividends.

> Will you please give me the name of a few that have obscene

> profits/dividends; or at least one or two? I don't have much to invest

> but my returns on CD's are obscene but in another direction. I'll be

> glad to settle for only 50% per year; or maybe 25%; that shouldn't be

> too much for a company with such obscene profits should it? Hey, how

> about 10%? Or 5%?

>

> Thanks,

>

January 14, 2010

Successful countries are organic: They're born, they grow and prosper

and achieve power. And after a time they decline and perish.

We are in the decline of the US right now. Only a very few years ago we

were the undisputed leader of the world. But our president [but

mostly our congress] chooses to continue to spend vast sums we do not

have and to borrow vast sums we cannot repay. In 2009 China bought more

cars than did the US; 20 years ago no one thought that even remotely

possible in such a short period of time. We continue to increase the

proportion of citizens who are consumers but not producers, and

eventually the ratio will become totally unsustainable and we will cease

to exist as anything like we have historically been. Any step in the

direction of socialism [such as socialized medicine] is just one more

step down that slippery slope.

..

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

> <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Rationing>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

> Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:42 am (PST)

>

> Steve the discussion was about whether or not you benefit from the

> things people in society make or do. Obviously you do, but are too

> stubborn to admit it. By the way, which highways do you know or

> travel on that the government has not subsidized in some way, or an

> airport that hasn't gotten any government help or an airplance

> coompany the government hasn't given huge contracts to, or a food

> company that is not subject to the (albeit antiquated) rules of the

> FDA, etc. I still think you are living in an illusion. In 2010, there

> are no men that are totally independant of everything. There are

> things you do get becvause they are produced in this country and

> subject to the laws thereof, no matter how few.

>

> It's nice that you've done some travelling, I have too. So tell me,

> from all your travelling, which country " does it right " ? You evidently

> don't think the United States does it right, so I'm interested to know

> which one you think does?

>

> Roni

January 14, 2010

And my point is that 3% is hardly an " obscene profit " .

..

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

> <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Rationing>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

> Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:53 am (PST)

>

> That's a heck of a lot better than the banks are giving. All they're

> doing now is taking in billions of dollars and disributing it to their

> own people instead of giving loans. The credit card interest rates

> have long passed usury, and they pay no interest. It doesn't matter

> any more if you do or don't have a savings account, there's no

> interest being earned on it.

>

> Roni

> <>Just because something

> isn't seen doesn't mean it's

> not there<>

>

> From: Steve <dudescholar4@...

> <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net>>

> Subject: Re: Re: Rationing

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 11:24 PM

>

> Last I heard, profit margins at health insurance companies as a group

> were 3%.

>

> Steve

January 14, 2010

that; sorry if I misunderstood or misquoted you.

Best regards,

..

>

> Posted by: " Chuck B " gumboyaya@...

> <mailto:gumboyaya@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Rationing>

> gumbo482001 <gumbo482001>

>

> Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:54 am (PST)

>

> ,

>

> Just to be clear, I didn't say I agreed with the actual Mc's

> verdict, or even could have agreed with one just for damages. I just

> said I can understand how a jury could have awarded for damages. The

> punitive part was way beyond my comprehension.

>

> But then, with what is being taught in schools, I am often surprised the

> lights stay on.

>

> Chuck

>

> You wrote:

> >

> > Damn*d if I can agree with the Mc's verdict AT ALL. Anyone

> > foolish enough to buy a cup of hot coffee in a paper cup and hold it

> > between their legs as they drive away are as far as I'm concerned

> > completely responsible. A burnt @$$ is nature's way of saying, " Don't

> > do that " ; and is something anyone who has attained the age of adulthood

> > should already know. Going against nature and rewarding fools is IMHO

> > counterproductive for everyone except the lawyers. YMMV.

January 14, 2010

It's not just the UK; look at Canada, another place often quoted as a

socialist medical heaven:

..

>

> Cut and crowded, Ontario hospitals falling behind UK in combating

> infections Scotland hiring in-house cleaners, Wales ending

> contracting out; Ontario on wrong track

>

> May 11, 2009

>

> TORONTO – Ontario should follow the example of Scotland and Wales,

> which are hiring hundreds more cleaners and ending contracting out of

> cleaning services in their battles against health care associated

> infections (HAIs), said Steve Davies, a UK expert researcher on the

> connection between cleaning and controlling infections such as C.

> difficile, MRSA and VRE in health care facilities.

>

> “The ish ministry of health has just announced it is hiring 600

> new in-house cleaning staff to battle HAIs and Wales is ending all

> contracting out,” said Davies, senior research fellow at Cardiff

> University in Wales. “In-house cleaners prove to be more effective,

> and in the long run, at least as cost-effective as contracted out

> cleaning services. Ontario should take notice.”

>

> Davies, speaking at a Queen's Park media conference today to kick off

> a Canadian tour against HAIs organized by the Canadian Union of Public

> Employees, noted that many Canadian governments are going down the

> wrong track.

>

> “More overcrowding, more understaffing and contracting out of cleaning

> services puts patients and health care workers at unnecessary risk,”

> said Davies, who has worked with government bodies, parliamentary

> authorities, employers and unions, and who contributed to the Romanow

> Commission in 2001.

>

> The Canadian National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health

> gives five reasons for the spread of infectious pathogens: crowding,

> contact, cuts or abrasions, contaminated surfaces, and lack of

> cleanliness. High hospital bed occupancy is a major factor in the

> first two, and insufficient front line staff largely determines the

> last two. A recent UK study found that hospitals with occupancy levels

> over 90 per cent can expect a 10.3 per cent higher MRSA rate. In 2005,

> Canada's bed occupancy rate was 95 per cent.

>

> “Canada has one of the highest bed occupancy rates in the OECD, but

> we're still adding fuel to the HAI fire by cutting back on cleaning

> staff and contracting out services to the lowest bidder,” said Louis

> Rodrigues, First Vice-President, Ontario Council of Hospital

> Unions/Canadian Union of Public Employees (OCHU/CUPE). “Let's learn

> from the UK, reduce occupancy rates and bolster in-house cleaning

> services.”

>

> Health care associated infections are the fourth-leading cause of

> death in Canada, with an annual infection rate of 220,000, resulting

> in 8,500-12,000 deaths each year.

>

..

Regards,

..

> From: Trish <fielddot@... <mailto:fielddot%40gmail.com>>

> Subject: Re:Rationing

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:32 AM

>

> Since cutting out all wheat products, having a small amount of brown

> rice and very small amounts of the humble spud my health has hugely

> IMPROVED. Carbs cause high tryglycerides which causes inflammation

> which is behind a whole host of diseases.

>

> Nancie, I hope you will be able to apologise to Crystal for accusing

> her of lying ...the UK hospitals are full to overflowing not to

> mention being a hot bed of some very dodgy infections.

>

> You wrote: no their not. You are LYING

>

> From: Crystal

> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:30 PM

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Subject: Re: Re:Rationing

>

> That is exactly what happens in the UK.. Their hospitals are overflowing!

> CW

January 14, 2010

I think the outsizing of American jobs and companies is the thing that is most

destroying us. That and the unbridled greed of the banks.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: Re: Rationing

hypothyroidism

Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 7:22 AM