Guest guest Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 , with all due respect, this time you are entirely wrong. I had no idea the formula was changed, and I had been on Armour for years. All of a sudden, I got very sick and was getting sicker by the day. I had no idea about the change in inactive ingredients in Armour. I had no idea my illness was from Armour at all. At first, it seems some people called Forest and were told that nothing had changed, then they said they changed the inert ingredients, then they stopped production. These are facts not placebo effects. It was not just me and it was not just people who knew each other, it was across the board of people taking it. You say you can detect people that have more intelligence than a bear. If that is so then I would hope you give me more credit than to think I was functioning for years under the placebo effect of this drug, and that someone burst my mental bubble and I suddenly reacted to that. It is insulting. If someone is sick, they are sick and I don't think it very perceptive or compassionate of you to assume it's " all in their head. " <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075oh@...> Subject: Re: Functioning hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, February 9, 2010, 1:52 PM You cannot change the formula in a drastic manner for a drug that has been approved for sale; I doubt you can tamper with the active ingredients at all. If you do you have to treat it as a new drug and go through the approval process; which is very long and expensive. To arbitrarily change a formula without approval would probably be a felony in any country on earth. Further, it would open up such a floodgate of litigation that to do so would be committing financial suicide. That is the exact opposite of the motive you seem to feel they have: To make money. I personally suspect that the effectiveness of Armour may have decreased because of a decrease in the effectiveness of the placebo factor for that medication. Once it became widely known that the formula had been changed [although only the inert ingredients] that may have caused a paranoia among those who do not realize that inert ingredients are exactly that: They are inert for the vast majority of humans; and are chosen exactly for that reason. So the " faith " of the " faithful " proponents was shaken, and the beneficial effects that most all medicines exhibit that are in fact placebo effect decreased. Of course, from a scientific viewpoint this is just idle speculation. .. AND: There may be some tiny percentage of patients who _do_ actually have a negative reaction to the change in inert ingredients. Again: If you go looking for a conspiracy expecting to find one you probably will IMHO. .. .. > > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam > <mailto:matchermaam?Subject=%20Re% 3A%20Functioning > > matchermaam <http://profiles. / matchermaam> > > > Mon Feb 8, 2010 4:25 pm (PST) > > > > But look at all the money they are getting by prescribing Synthroid. > The conspiracy is so strong that they don't even do the proper > testing, so there's no way that they can find the right answers. > I'm sure that to someone who's not having these issues it may seem > very oddball, and very few, but, believe me, it's very much larger > than you could imagine. Look what happened when Forest went and > changed their formula and so many people got sick on it. At first they > tried to hide it and say nothing was wrong and they didn't hear > anything about it. Then they got so much negative feedback they > acknowledged that they changed the formula. Then they got so much more > negative feedback, they finally stopped making it. I don't believe > them for a minute that all they changed was one of the " inactive " > ingredients. > > <>Roni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Your idea to let the world of medicine see what is going on is a terrific idea. I don't, however, think the owners of these groups are going to do all that work. It might be a more effective method to make up your questionnaire to be posted to the groups, and have each person answer the questionnaire and forward it to a preset address. Just another idea that might help you accomplish your admirable goal. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> To some extent I think we find what we expect to find. For the mostpart I seem to find reasonably competent doctors who are well educated and brighter than the average bear. And I _do_ have a reasonable lay person's ability to make that determination. Regards, ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 If companies have been putting plastic into baby formula, why do you doubt that they would do things like this? The corporate greed has gotten to a dangerous level. They seem willing to do just about anything to increase their bottom line at the expense of their customers. Lets not forget that customers of drugs are patients, needing safe, effective medications for the illness or illnesses they have. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075oh@...> Subject: Re: Functioning hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, February 9, 2010, 11:52 AM You cannot change the formula in a drastic manner for a drug that has been approved for sale; I doubt you can tamper with the active ingredients at all. If you do you have to treat it as a new drug and go through the approval process; which is very long and expensive. To arbitrarily change a formula without approval would probably be a felony in any country on earth. Further, it would open up such a floodgate of litigation that to do so would be committing financial suicide. That is the exact opposite of the motive you seem to feel they have: To make money. I personally suspect that the effectiveness of Armour may have decreased because of a decrease in the effectiveness of the placebo factor for that medication. Once it became widely known that the formula had been changed [although only the inert ingredients] that may have caused a paranoia among those who do not realize that inert ingredients are exactly that: They are inert for the vast majority of humans; and are chosen exactly for that reason. So the " faith " of the " faithful " proponents was shaken, and the beneficial effects that most all medicines exhibit that are in fact placebo effect decreased. Of course, from a scientific viewpoint this is just idle speculation... AND: There may be some tiny percentage of patients who _do_ actually have a negative reaction to the change in inert ingredients. Again: If you go looking for a conspiracy expecting to find one you probably will IMHO. .. .. > > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Functioning> > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > Mon Feb 8, 2010 4:25 pm (PST) > > > > But look at all the money they are getting by prescribing Synthroid. > The conspiracy is so strong that they don't even do the proper > testing, so there's no way that they can find the right answers. > I'm sure that to someone who's not having these issues it may seem > very oddball, and very few, but, believe me, it's very much larger > than you could imagine. Look what happened when Forest went and > changed their formula and so many people got sick on it. At first they > tried to hide it and say nothing was wrong and they didn't hear > anything about it. Then they got so much negative feedback they > acknowledged that they changed the formula. Then they got so much more > negative feedback, they finally stopped making it. I don't believe > them for a minute that all they changed was one of the " inactive " > ingredients. > > <>Roni ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 I ABSOLUTELY had a return of symtoms on new Armour and it was no placebo effect because I believed I was still taking old Armour. Donna Re: Functioning You cannot change the formula in a drastic manner for a drug that has been approved for sale; I doubt you can tamper with the active ingredients at all. If you do you have to treat it as a new drug and go through the approval process; which is very long and expensive. To arbitrarily change a formula without approval would probably be a felony in any country on earth. Further, it would open up such a floodgate of litigation that to do so would be committing financial suicide. That is the exact opposite of the motive you seem to feel they have: To make money. I personally suspect that the effectiveness of Armour may have decreased because of a decrease in the effectiveness of the placebo factor for that medication. Once it became widely known that the formula had been changed [although only the inert ingredients] that may have caused a paranoia among those who do not realize that inert ingredients are exactly that: They are inert for the vast majority of humans; and are chosen exactly for that reason. So the " faith " of the " faithful " proponents was shaken, and the beneficial effects that most all medicines exhibit that are in fact placebo effect decreased. Of course, from a scientific viewpoint this is just idle speculation... AND: There may be some tiny percentage of patients who _do_ actually have a negative reaction to the change in inert ingredients. Again: If you go looking for a conspiracy expecting to find one you probably will IMHO. . . > > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Functioning> > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > Mon Feb 8, 2010 4:25 pm (PST) > > > > But look at all the money they are getting by prescribing Synthroid. > The conspiracy is so strong that they don't even do the proper > testing, so there's no way that they can find the right answers. > I'm sure that to someone who's not having these issues it may seem > very oddball, and very few, but, believe me, it's very much larger > than you could imagine. Look what happened when Forest went and > changed their formula and so many people got sick on it. At first they > tried to hide it and say nothing was wrong and they didn't hear > anything about it. Then they got so much negative feedback they > acknowledged that they changed the formula. Then they got so much more > negative feedback, they finally stopped making it. I don't believe > them for a minute that all they changed was one of the " inactive " > ingredients. > > <>Roni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Sheila, Unfortunately, this is a " disowned " list. The list owner pretty much abandoned us after starting the group as a commercial promotion. I don't know if the co-moderator he allowed to run the list can do what you ask. Ira, can you do it? Also, I think your extremely dim view of thyroid doctoring is entirely appropriate for the U.K. but not for other nations. I have several former students with recent M.D. degrees who tell me U.S. med schools are teaching both T3 treatments and earlier (low TSH) interventions. One of them started my son on T4 with a TSH of 4. He is currently being treated by one of the Endo professors at the med school they all attended. Same story from them, although they didn't like my theory about statins suppressing TSH. Chuck > > ...It will actually be a crying shame if the owners of all the thyroid > groups will not go to the trouble of downloading all their members email > addresses and sending out a mass email - surely they opened their forum > in the first place to help all those who are suffering, and this is one > way they could really help.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 A thought just struck me Sheila. You are asking for thousands of names and email addresses, and actually we don't know who you are. Is there some way you could identify yourself so that we know for sure who you are and what you intend to do with all that information? <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: SheilaT <sheilaturner@...> Subject: Re: Functioning hypothyroidism Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 7:02 AM If the owner of this group cannot be contacted then I see of no way the list of members can be downloaded - which is a shame. However, if Ira was given access to the members list, all he has to do is to go to the Members List, click download, copy and paste the list into a Word document and then send to a member who would be willing to do what's necessary. Two minutes work. The link is being sent to all owners of thyroid web site and thyroid Internet forums to enable their readers/members to complete the questionnaire. We will get more signatures if these owners will contact their members individually or delegate this tasks to one of their members, because as you say, out of 2600 members here, only about a dozen at any one time is reading. Sheila > > How about Roni's idea to post the questionnaire directly to this group? > I'm sure some of us would be glad to help; but I don't know how many. > Out of 2600[?] members only a dozen or so post regularly. > > ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 http://www.purezing.com/living/food_articles/living_articles_badsalt.htm This is just the first one I found. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075oh@...> Subject: Re: Functioning hypothyroidism Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 12:11 PM I don't have any terror at the notion that someone might die, but I think it's rather foolish and inconsiderate to provide instructions to someone that have a small chance of killing them without also providing that information. We can make our best judgment IMHO when we have all of the available information. I personally declined a prescription from my cardiologist based upon my evaluation of probable risks/benefits last month. BTW, are you sure table salt is bleached? I don't believe I ever heard that. .. .. > > Posted by: " Trish " fielddot@... > <mailto:fielddot@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Functioning> > trishruk <trishruk> > > > Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:02 am (PST) > > > > > > Personally I don't think it's a good idea to supplement something like > potassium unless you KNOW you are low. > > Regarding iodized salt and kelp ...I have a large barge pole and I > would not touch either of those items with it! In my view unrefined > sea salt is essential but bleached white iodized sodium chloride is > not. Kelp has been shown to be contaminated with various nasty things > (arsenic for one) so that wouldn't be my choice as a supplement. If it > is the iodine you are after then I don't know what to tell you but you > could try this group > > iodine/ > <iodine/> > > Anything you choose to supplement with make sure you have done your > research and do not just go along with what someone says ... on > this list seems to think that we are all half-brained when it comes to > iodine (and maybe other things) and he expresses terror at the thought > that someone might be harmed by following the advice, particularly > from the iodine group. ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 I'm not disputing her identity, just trying to verify it. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075oh@...> Subject: Re: Functioning hypothyroidism Date: Friday, February 12, 2010, 9:24 PM While I don't have any " credible evidence " to support my opinion I do have sufficient anecdotal evidence to convince me that Sheila is exactly who and what she says she is. .. .. > > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Functioning> > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:23 am (PST) > > > > A thought just struck me Sheila. You are asking for thousands of names > and email addresses, and actually we don't know who you are. Is there > some way you could identify > yourself so that we know for sure who you are and what you intend to > do with all that information? > > <>Roni ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 I understood. By the way, what is your anecdotal evidence, aside from her statements? <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> > Subject: Re: Functioning > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Friday, February 12, 2010, 9:24 PM > > While I don't have any " credible evidence " to support my opinion I do > have sufficient anecdotal evidence to convince me that Sheila is exactly > who and what she says she is. > > ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 See now, I know you are not obscene or anything like that (so far), and I really don't like people getting booted for their opinions. Of course, if someone attacks someone directly, rather than their position, that's another story. However, I think that problem, most of the time, can be discussed and corrected. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> > Subject: Re: Functioning > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Saturday, February 13, 2010, 11:21 AM > > I'm sure. My response was partially a self-depreciating joke aimed at > my obvious very frequent use of the " credible evidence " phrase. > > ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Someone booted ? Wow (ggggg) CW -- Re: Functioning > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Saturday, February 13, 2010, 11:21 AM > > I'm sure. My response was partially a self-depreciating joke aimed at > my obvious very frequent use of the " credible evidence " phrase. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Oh, I went on an iodine list. I just read posts for quite a while and did not post myself. I decided that this was not a place for open discussion. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> > Subject: Re: Functioning > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Saturday, February 13, 2010, 9:14 PM > > At one time I was a member of the UK list she runs. Let's just say > we've had a number of interesting emails in which we did not always see > eye-to-eye. To the extent that I was booted from the list. > > ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Don't make that assumption. It has happened to me many times. It's stupid . I don't know why some posts just never show up, but it is true that they don't. I'm sure it's not because they are being moderated out. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: Cherwyn Ambuter <cherwyn@...> Subject: Re: Functioning hypothyroidism Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 5:43 AM Well, I'm not so sure this place is the place for open discussion, either - I posted two posts a couple of days ago, and neither of them has yet appeared on the forum. I suspect they may be being " moderated. " Cherwyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Whewww - I know what you mean - only I posted on a Hormone Replacement list filled with zealots. It was actually kind of scary. Duffy On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 5:06 PM, <res075oh@...> wrote: > You have never known any True Believers, have you? Try going on any > iodine list and post any doubt in the " faith " followed there and see > what happens. > > > . > . > > > > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Functioning> > > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > > > > Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:26 am (PST) > > > > > > > > See now, I know you are not obscene or anything like that (so far), > > and I really don't like people getting booted for their opinions. Of > > course, if someone attacks someone directly, rather than their > > position, that's another story. However, I think that problem, most of > > the time, can be discussed and corrected. > > > > <>Roni > > Immortality exists! > > It's called knowledge! > > > > Just because something isn't seen > > doesn't mean it's not there<> > > > > > > > > From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net<res075oh%2540verizon.net> > >> > > Subject: Re: Functioning > > hypothyroidism > > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40<hypothyroidism%2540> > > > > Date: Saturday, February 13, 2010, 9:14 PM > > > > At one time I was a member of the UK list she runs. Let's just say > > we've had a number of interesting emails in which we did not always see > > eye-to-eye. To the extent that I was booted from the list. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 I know this wasn't directed at me of course, but I just wanted to make a comment. It has been my experience that people who consider themselves " true believers " in anything always censor other opinions because they are so afraid of losing their exalted position with the uninformed masses to whom they preach. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075oh@...> Subject: Re: Functioning hypothyroidism Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 2:41 PM See Chuck's post. You know full well what " expensive hamburger we are talking about " . And you know full well what list you booted me from; you cannot be that dim witted. What you may not [or may] know is that at the time I informed a member of your list that the product under discussion was effectively nothing but very expensive hamburger with no medical properties beyond trace elements is that I did not know that you personally promoted the product. I also did not know that one of the guru's of the list [a doctor whose license to practice medicine had been revoked IIRC] also highly promoted the quack concoction. So while it may have appeared that I was attacking you or your guru that was not the case, as I was unaware of the promotion that either of you had done. My purpose in the response was simply to inform a member who had a question that the product was in fact worthless as medication for anything except possibly starvation. As for the " sacred cows sleeping peacefully " the implications were obvious to me; I don't really feel an obligation to try to explain it to you. As for " who came alone " that was me. But I'm gone from that pasture now, so I'm sure the sacred cows are peacefully sleeping again! [ggg] At some point I would think you would want to answer the question [if only to yourself] as to whether you really want to run a list where it is necessary to censor information contrary to the opinions of the " true believers " . .. .. > > Posted by: " SheilaT " sheilaturner@... > <mailto:sheilaturner@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Functioning> > campaigner77 <campaigner77> > > > Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:18 am (PST) > > > > > ...what " expensive " hamburger " are we talking about? Who avoids > answering embarrassing questions? What particular list are you referring > to where " most didn't dare be supportive publicly " and who are the > " there were a number of sacred cows sleeping peacefully before who came > along...? > > Sheila www.tpa-uk.org. > uk <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk>> > > > > > > How better to avoid having to answer embarrassing questions if you're > > promoting the healing powers of very expensive hamburger? As someone > > there told me off-list [most didn't dare be supportive publicly] > " There > > were a number of sacred cows sleeping peacefully before you came > along... " > > > > ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 , I am perfectly aware of what " true believers " are, no matter what the subject. As I said, they require preaching (teaching) the uninformed, and tend to make sure it stays that way. It's still a dictatorship situation, and not one that I'm fond of. I don't know this woman and have no animosity towards her. I just don't appreciate people that think they know how much information I should have, and make sure that I don't get more. <>Roni Immortality exists! It's called knowledge! Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> > Subject: Re: Functioning > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 2:41 PM > > See Chuck's post. You know full well what " expensive hamburger we are > talking about " . And you know full well what list you booted me from; > you cannot be that dim witted. > > What you may not [or may] know is that at the time I informed a member > of your list that the product under discussion was effectively nothing > but very expensive hamburger with no medical properties beyond trace > elements is that I did not know that you personally promoted the > product. I also did not know that one of the guru's of the list [a > doctor whose license to practice medicine had been revoked IIRC] also > highly promoted the quack concoction. So while it may have appeared > that I was attacking you or your guru that was not the case, as I was > unaware of the promotion that either of you had done. My purpose in the > response was simply to inform a member who had a question that the > product was in fact worthless as medication for anything except possibly > starvation. > > As for the " sacred cows sleeping peacefully " the implications were > obvious to me; I don't really feel an obligation to try to explain it to > you. As for " who came alone " that was me. But I'm gone from that > pasture now, so I'm sure the sacred cows are peacefully sleeping again! > [ggg] > > At some point I would think you would want to answer the question [if > only to yourself] as to whether you really want to run a list where it > is necessary to censor information contrary to the opinions of the " true > believers " . > > > . > . > > > > > Posted by: " SheilaT " sheilaturner@... > <mailto:sheilaturner%40tpa-uk.org.uk> > > <mailto:sheilaturner@... > <mailto:sheilaturner%40tpa-uk.org.uk>?Subject=%20Re% > 3A%20Functioning> > > campaigner77 <campaigner77 > <campaigner77>> > > > > > > Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:18 am (PST) > > > > > > > > > > ...what " expensive " hamburger " are we talking about? Who avoids > > answering embarrassing questions? What particular list are you referring > > to where " most didn't dare be supportive publicly " and who are the > > " there were a number of sacred cows sleeping peacefully before who came > > along...? > > > > Sheila www.tpa-uk.org. > > uk <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk> > <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk <http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk>>> > > > > > > > > > > How better to avoid having to answer embarrassing questions if you're > > > promoting the healing powers of very expensive hamburger? As someone > > > there told me off-list [most didn't dare be supportive publicly] > > " There > > > were a number of sacred cows sleeping peacefully before you came > > along... " > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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