NADH

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/4/99 11:12:57 PM Central Standard Time, vilik@...

writes:

<< Has anyone tried NADH (coenzyme 1) for CFS/Fibromyalgia? >>

No, I have not tried this but would like to pass this personal information on.

I have a serious autoimmune disease called pulmonary fibrosis. If it wasn't

enough, I developed fibromyalgia after a year or better into it. This problem

was worse it seemed than the other disease. That was because of the constant

and sever pain that came with it. It was misdiagnosed at first and I finally

recognized the symptoms of what it was. A doctor confirmed this. I done a

great deal of research into this and tried a number of things. I continued

taking magnesium and malic acid and the like but did not get much relief.

Tried magnets and DMSO. I got a little relief but not a great deal. Finally

I met a woman that suffered with it and she said DHEA helped her a great deal.

I started taking it with a 25 mg dose. It seemed to help. As I increased the

dosage, the pain got less and less. At 100 mg a day, I have lost 90% of the

pain.

I hope this helps and gives you a direction to look in.

Gene Downey

[Guest guest]

Please note that my doctor told me a week ago that NADH can cause

shaking. She said to lower the dose. IN a case where one is only on 5

mg and getting irregular heart beats I would drop it too.

a

rhbailey@... wrote:

>

> From: rhbailey@...

>

> I just came across something my daughter wrote in January 1998, and thought

> it might be of interest to those trying NADH for the first time:

>

> " Hi all, I wanted to let you know what happened to me with the NADH

> supplement. I took 5 mg/ day for 4 days but had to stop due to side

> effects.

>

> On the second day, I developed strange heart palpitations and much worse

> insomnia than usual. The symptoms worsened, so I stopped the pills two

> days later. That was three days ago and I still have an extremely

> irregular heartrate and palpitations. About every sixth beat, my heart

> skips a beat,then pounds to catch up. I'm gonna see my doc about it.

>

> Anyway, this is not to say NADH won't work for some people, but clearly the

> town study doesn't give the whole story. "

>

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> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Does anyone know a good source for ENADA (NADH) mail order for a good

price? I can find it locally here but it runs around $29 for 30 tabs 5

mg. Thanks, KAT

[Guest guest]

I would call a cyber-buddy. He is a good man, who treats customers

super-well. His last price of which I know was $24, but that was then & this is

now. Still, his site will have the best price going, he is a good person, and as

such will do his part of the deal right! Contact him at smiler@...

jim ! :)

Moss wrote:

> From: " Moss " <mossd@...>

>

> , smiler@..., has or had Enada at a low price. I forget

> how much, but I think it's less than $29 for that amount. I know from

> the mind-l list, and I vouch for his integrity.

> >Does anyone know a good source for ENADA (NADH) mail order for a good

> >price? I can find it locally here but it runs around $29 for 30 tabs 5

> >mg. Thanks, KAT

--

jim@... http://www.entrance.to/madscience

http://www.entrance.to/poetry

The biggest difference between genius & stupidity is that genius has its limits.

-- anony

amicus certus in re incerta

[Guest guest]

, smiler@..., has or had Enada at a low price. I forget

how much, but I think it's less than $29 for that amount. I know from

the mind-l list, and I vouch for his integrity.

-dzm

RE: NADH

>From: angelkat <angelkat@...>

>

>Does anyone know a good source for ENADA (NADH) mail order for a good

>price? I can find it locally here but it runs around $29 for 30 tabs 5

>mg. Thanks, KAT

>

>---------------------------

[Guest guest]

I also did not care for NADH, I seem to have gone into a tizzy with it as if

my body speeded up and not my brain. ,some days worse than others so once

again we do react differently , these bodies of ours are fickle. I don't

think I would even try it again. At the time I didn't notice that quite a

bit of info relayed to CF as in Chronic Fatigue and not CFS......

wrote:::::What they failed to mention is that

the rest of the subjects, 66% either saw no improvement or got worse! In

fact the number of people that got worse was about the same as those who saw

improvement.::::::

[Guest guest]

I took NADH, 10 mg. once a day (as was done in the study), for a couple of

months. I felt better, but it gave me so much energy that I couldn't sleep at

night. I didn't realize it until I forgot

to reorder, ran out, and started sleeping like a baby. I think I'll try it

again sometime at the 5mg level.

Bekah

SusyDog@... wrote:

> I also did not care for NADH, I seem to have gone into a tizzy with it as if

> my body speeded up and not my brain. ,some days worse than others so once

> again we do react differently , these bodies of ours are fickle. I don't

> think I would even try it again. At the time I didn't notice that quite a

> bit of info relayed to CF as in Chronic Fatigue and not CFS......

> wrote:::::What they failed to mention is that

> the rest of the subjects, 66% either saw no improvement or got worse! In

> fact the number of people that got worse was about the same as those who saw

> improvement.::::::

>

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> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/24/00 12:21:53 PM Central Daylight Time,

egroups writes:

<< I do hope that it was adding the Niacin that caused the reduced

effectiveness. After 20 yrs of this illness, it sure would be nice to have

something with this effectiveness that lasts.

>>

How long have you been at the higher dose where you are

getting results? Also please let us know if it continues to

work for you.

Mike

[Guest guest]

Hi all - I take 5 mg of NADH every morning. It is

important to take on an empty stomach with water only.

I also think you need at least a month for the

effects to build up. I noticed a big difference in

energy when I stopped taking it, so I am back on it

and will keep it in my treatment protocol.

FWIW - Jennie

--- uma@... wrote:

> This all I know about Nada. It is a coemzyme. It's

> full name is

> nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide. Enada is the

> reduced form of

> coenzyme #1.

>

> I gave it a month trial. I found a slight increase

> in energy for the

> first half week, but the energy benefit disappeared

> and I

> discontinued it after the month. No improvement in

> the

> neurological/CNS

> department for me. Perhaps I should have given it a

> longer trial....

> Best, Rhonda

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I started taking one 5 mg ENADA NADH then went up to 2 a day

It seemed to help give me some energy. I had no side affects.

Then I went up to 4 a day & had a real burst of energy & could function much

longer & better than in a long time. Soafter a while, I went up to 6 a day &

it seemed to work for a short time. Then I did not notice any affect. So I

tried 8 a day & nothing. So I continued to take 1 or 2 a day until I recently

ran out of it.

I am going to see if it makes any difference taking

none for about a week, then adding one or two a day only. This stuff sure is

expensive & it was REALLY disappointing again to have something work for only

a short amount of time.

I have not heards of any side affects from it though, so good luck with it.

Any one elese found the affects taper off also?

[Guest guest]

I read that Microhydrin, a supplement, is supposed to increase NADH

production. There is a generic Microhydrin called Nanohydrate that Luke on

our list told us about that costs much less. You might try that, sold by

Natures Rx , ph 888-206-5409. Report back if it helps. I use it and notice

some benefit from it.

Al

Re: NADH

> I started taking one 5 mg ENADA NADH then went up to 2 a day

> It seemed to help give me some energy. I had no side affects.

> Then I went up to 4 a day & had a real burst of energy & could function

much

> longer & better than in a long time. Soafter a while, I went up to 6 a day

&

> it seemed to work for a short time. Then I did not notice any affect. So I

> tried 8 a day & nothing. So I continued to take 1 or 2 a day until I

recently

> ran out of it.

> I am going to see if it makes any difference taking

> none for about a week, then adding one or two a day only. This stuff sure

is

> expensive & it was REALLY disappointing again to have something work for

only

> a short amount of time.

> I have not heards of any side affects from it though, so good luck with

it.

> Any one elese found the affects taper off also?

>

[Guest guest]

That is interesting about the NADH making your temperature go up.

I am in menopause so even though I now get very warm often, I am assuming it

is hot flashes.

But I guess it is possible it could be the NADH

[Guest guest]

This sounds like what happened to me. I've been taking 10 mg. of Enada,

which is the amount that was used in the studies on nadh for CFS. However,

although the energy benefits seemed to disappear after a few days, something

that didn't was that my normally low body temperature went up from averaging

96.0 to 98.0, and I started to get late afternoon/evening low grade fevers

that I didn't have before that would get up to 99.0 to 100. Not every

evening, but most evenings. And I'd feel overheated more easily, which has

been unusual for me because I have always been notoriously cold all the

time. I still wake up in the morning with really low body temperature, but

an hour or two after taking Enada my body temperature goes up. So I figure

that my bodies energy production is going up, but rather than using it for

physical energy, it's putting it into immune activation or body heat or

something else.

I think that one reason it might loose its energizing effects is that it is

using up the available nutrients and when they are used up, it can't

continue providing energy. A blockage in the krebs cycle would slow down the

available nutrients for the nadh to react with. But nadh is used for other

functions in the body besides energy production. This is just a rather

unscientific guess.

lindaj@...

Re: NADH

> I started taking one 5 mg ENADA NADH then went up to 2 a day

> It seemed to help give me some energy. I had no side affects.

> Then I went up to 4 a day & had a real burst of energy & could function

much

> longer & better than in a long time. Soafter a while, I went up to 6 a day

&

> it seemed to work for a short time. Then I did not notice any affect. So I

> tried 8 a day & nothing. So I continued to take 1 or 2 a day until I

recently

> ran out of it.

> I am going to see if it makes any difference taking

> none for about a week, then adding one or two a day only. This stuff sure

is

> expensive & it was REALLY disappointing again to have something work for

only

> a short amount of time.

> I have not heards of any side affects from it though, so good luck with

it.

> Any one elese found the affects taper off also?

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Only thing I can add is that NADH and CoQ10 work together. Not sure how but

make sure I take both. I didn't notice anything until I took 15 mg of

Enada. Actually, not true. The first three times I took it (spaced months

apart, taken the right way etc) I fell into an almost coma-like deep sleep

immediately. Was wierd. Hasn't been explained to my satisfaction. Fourth

time I tried, I felt almost human for the first time in years.

> This sounds like what happened to me. I've been taking 10 mg. of Enada,

> which is the amount that was used in the studies on nadh for CFS.

[Guest guest]

How much is th cQ10 around? I have been taking 5 mg

of enada for amonth my mind seems a little clearer

should i add the cQ10?

--- jane_doe_press <jane_doe_press@...> wrote:

> Only thing I can add is that NADH and CoQ10 work

> together. Not sure how but

> make sure I take both. I didn't notice anything

> until I took 15 mg of

> Enada. Actually, not true. The first three times I

> took it (spaced months

> apart, taken the right way etc) I fell into an

> almost coma-like deep sleep

> immediately. Was wierd. Hasn't been explained to

> my satisfaction. Fourth

> time I tried, I felt almost human for the first time

> in years.

>

> > This sounds like what happened to me. I've been

> taking 10 mg. of Enada,

> > which is the amount that was used in the studies

> on nadh for CFS.

>

>

>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------->

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal

> experiences with each other, not to give medical

> advice. If you are interested in any treatment

> discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Dear Adam,

Tell me more about NADH...who gave it to you? Doasage? Contraindications?

Etc...

Many thanks, judy

On the likelihood of ever getting better

> > (long)...

> >

> >

> > On the likelihood of ever getting better (long)...

> >

> > Hi folks, this post is definitely treatment / research related so

> > please don't be p'd off at me for posting a rant. I'm

> > severely

> > dejected after a visit with my primary care doc. Very cool guy, up on

> > CFS, has many CFS patients. He is my local doctor in San Francisco.

> > He communicates with Dr. in Incline Village, NV (whom I also

> > see) to discuss my case and treat me accordingly.

> >

> > Today I saw my local doc. I'm not saying his name. Remember it is

> > NOT

> > Dr. . I left feeling very discouraged. I was telling him how

> > I have found that in the past few months, I seem to have had

> > more " up " periods than ever before - mind you all since

> > trying

> > ImmunoCal and Doxycycline. Certainly not major improvement or

> > recovery, but noticeably more up periods, working overtime, not

> > crashing too badly. But then this weekend I was crushed. Aching,

> > fluish fatigue with an intensity that is very abnormal for me -

> > like

> > the beginning of a bad flu. Point is, my doc told me not to get too

> > excited about the " up " periods because they are just the

> > illness

> > cycling. No, I begged him, please don't take away my hopes for

> > improvement. Most people don't get better, he said. Most people

> > eventually accept their limitations and live with it.

> >

> > I said " well, I'm still working on accepting my CURRENT

> > limitations

> > with the HOPE AND OPTIMISM that there may be improvement or even

> > recovery in the future. " Usually I get somewhat of a pep talk

> > from

> > him along this line, and even from my other doc. But this time he

> > seemed to be saying " accept your limitations, period. " He

> > even

> > said " This may last the rest of your life. " I've lived in

> > dreaded

> > fear of that cold hard possibility for the last 4 years (since

> > getting sick), but this just makes me feel worse. Does anyone feel

> > like if this " lasts the rest of your life " , that the rest of

> > your

> > life won't be very long?

> >

> > But no! Wait!, I say. I've read of many people on the lists and

> > in

> > articles who have improved greatly, if not fully recovered, leading

> > almost normal lives, whether due to simply resting and time, or by

> > trying treatments, even after many years of illness. Please don't

> > take that away from me. His response? THEY are the exceptions. Most

> > people don't get better.

> >

> > By the way, he's generally a very good doctor and he wasn't

> > delivering this information to me in a nasty or rude way. He's

> > very

> > nice. But it was the content. Argh!

> >

> > So I said, " well, doc, if I am never going to recover than why am

> > I

> > on this merry-go-round of tests for the last 4 years? "

> >

> > " Because we may be able to find some things that help a

> > little. " A

> > LITTLE? A little might get me to the age of 35 (I'm 31 now), but

> > not

> > much further.

> >

> > Then he went on to give me the happy little tidbit that at the

> > Seattle Conference (which he did attend), the buzz in the

> > " hall "

> > (i.e. not formally presented) was that Ampligen is a bust. " Too

> > many

> > side effects, not enough benefit. "

> >

> > Oh great. The icing on the cake. I'm on my pity-pot here. Please

> > don't get mad at me. I'm sorry for bringing anyone down. It just

> > makes me wonder, what the hell are we doing? Are we all wasting our

> > time and money trying to get well? Will the reasearch pan out ever?

> > Does anyone really ever get better? I know I've heard people do,

> > but

> > it seems so unreal.

> >

> > , pity-potting in San Francisco

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

each

> > other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

treatment

> > discussed here, please consult your doctor.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

NADH is formed when a hydrogen atom is appended to NAD. NAD is

created in the cell from Niacin (Vit B3) and ATP. NADH is produced

in the cell during glycolysis and during the kreb cycle. NADH

carries the electron into the Electron Transport Chain and helps to

create ATP, the currency of energy used by the cell.

If you view the ENADA website the presentation leads you to believe

that supplemented NADH is used in the cell the same way. I have not

found anything to support that NADH is taken into the cell from

external sources and used in this manner.

I suspect that those persons that report benefit from using the

product may be getting some raw ingredient from the supplement that

they may be lacking.

All the best,

Jim

Fibromyalgia: A Hypothesis of Etiology

http://www.xmission.com/~total/temple/index.html

> Hello to all. I would like to share my experience with NADH.

,

> thank you for your excellenct analysis of the town study.

>

> I heard Dr. Birkmayer, the developer of ENADA, speak last summer in

> person at a support group in the San Diego area. I was very

impressed

> by him. He provided a lot of written material about the product,

and

> free samples for us to try.

>

> So I was jazzed and expected good results. I started out at 5 mg

each

> morning, taken the way it was recommended, on an empty stomach with

a

> full glass of water, not eating anything until approx. 30 min

later.

>

> After about 5 days, I started feeling funny. More pain, more

jittery,

> can't remember any more specifics, but not good. So I cut it down

to

> 2.5 mg and continued. I gradually started feeling a little worse.

As

> far as I remember, this was the only new change I was making at that

> time. After 2 weeks, I felt even worse, more pain, difficult to

sleep,

> jittery. At that point, I elected to stop taking it. I returned

in a

> few days to how I was before trying it, so no bad permanent effects.

>

> I was personally disappointed, but I have heard from others who felt

> they have more energy from it. We are all unique, that's for sure!!

>

> I understand the other 2 illnesses this product is recommended for

are

> Parkinson's and alzheimer's. My hunch is that in my case my brain

did

> not like the extra dopamine, since dopamine is involved in

Parkinson's

> treatment. Perhaps it builds up more dopamine than the other 2

> neurotransmitters, serotonin and norepinephrine. Eveyone's brain

and

> metabolism is different, and I may be way off base in my

conjectures.

> But that was my personal experience with NADH, specifically ENADA.

>

> Probably worth a try, but be careful. From the description Dr.

Birkmayer

> gave, I think it is a well manufactured product. But you always

have to

> keep in mind, he is the developer, and he is trying to sell it.

>

>

>

> Jodi

[Guest guest]

NADH is awesome, i feel it in about 45 mins. But...just as awesome is the

formula of Dr. Ames at UC berkeley of acetyl l carnitine and alpha lipoic acid

(see his website at www.juvenon.com.) Both give me an amazing shot of energy,

and reduce brain fog. I take it with lots of epa fish oil and many other

supplements. I obviously have a mitochondrial energy dysfunction. Either a

cause

or an effect. Everyone should at least try these safe supplements.

[Guest guest]

Hi Melinda

I tried the tablet and the injectable forms but neither did anything for me

except make me considerably poorer!

NADH

> Question to the group:

>

> I am curious about other people's experiences with NADH. My doctor

suggested taking 10mg each day sublingual to help counteract the fatigue

that I am feeling from reducing my dosage of Zoloft (I am trying to get off

the Zoloft after 10 years.) Have people had good experiences? Bad? Side

effects?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Melinda

>

> Melinda M. Kaufman

>

>

[Guest guest]

Its been a long time since I used it, but it had a bad, freaky feeling effect,

which did go away quickly when I stopped using it. I was at the same time using

another powerful, energy-giving antidepressant supplement, (d,l-phenylalanine),

and I had an idea that the problem was taking the two together.

Adrienne

NADH

Question to the group:

I am curious about other people's experiences with NADH. My doctor suggested

taking 10mg each day sublingual to help counteract the fatigue that I am feeling

from reducing my dosage of Zoloft (I am trying to get off the Zoloft after 10

years.) Have people had good experiences? Bad? Side effects?

Thanks,

Melinda

Melinda M. Kaufman

[Guest guest]

NADH worked for me for a short time in a very dramatic way giving me a lot

of energy & then it stopped.

I tried it again after a long time & it did nothing.

[Guest guest]

I used it at 5 mg., 10 mg, 20 mg., 30 mg., sublingually, (always on an empty

stomach by itself) tried different brands, did nothing. I've also tried it

at different times, when I was really sick, when I was much better, when I

was in a crash, when I was not in a crash, etc. Still nothing. It's been

some years since I'd tried it, and I recently tried it again, and still

nothing.

lindaj@...

[Guest guest]

The first time I tried NADH, it did absolutely nothing, but I have found that

some supplements I tried years ago that didn't work are more helpful now, and

vice versa. I just happened to find this unfinished box of it the other day

-- not past the expiration date -- so I started taking it again just to try

it. This time, the first five days or so the results were dramatic. Then, like

just about everything I try, they seemed to wear off. Now I have switched to

the sublingual version, but I don't think it's doing much. I might up it to

20 mg/day.

Peggy

[Guest guest]

I am confused about taking supplements which are said to be taken on empty

stomach half an hour before breakfast.

There are so many to be taken like that and I don't know what is happening

when they are taken together.

I am already taking rhodiola and water/honey solution half an hour before

breakfast. Can I take NADH together with those?I am planning to retry

it,too.

Thanks

Nil

Re: NADH

> The first time I tried NADH, it did absolutely nothing, but I have found

that

> some supplements I tried years ago that didn't work are more helpful now,

and

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Sorry, don't know what happened to this message but what I was saying is

that I have tried NADH on 2 occasions and could tolerate it at all.

Rosie

In a message dated 27/11/2005 15:10:16 GMT Standard Time,

rosiecox@... writes:

http://www.enadh.com

It seems to be helping me. How does NADH this relate to Methylation -

any

ideas?

1) Whey Protein

2) Lactoferrin

3) Sea Salt/ Vit C / licorice (occasionaly )

4) Coconut oil / - look into lauric acid anad lauricidin and perhaps

Candigest Plus

5) NADH & Co Q10 ( also looking into SAm-e )

Regards

Cs