Re: Natto Question

[Guest guest]

www.gemcultures.com

They include instructions with their natto starter. Many of us in this

group have gotten it from them and been very pleased.

Dom of kefir fame has a great page about natto as well:

http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/koji.html#Natto

> Please can someone tell me where/how to obtain Natto starter and the

> best site to get instructions on making it? Thanks in advance.

> Jen

[Guest guest]

As a second choice.

I would try on any natto products sold at the store, maybe from

oriental groceries, only if there are available stores nearby.

I had heard that some natto manufactures buy natto-kins from several

companies and combine them, to make some outstanding features of each

products.

Some says long threads of nattos, some says less anmonia and mild

flavors, some insists on higher contents of Menaquinon7,,,in their

ads. So you can choose anyway possible combined features.

However, I had heard that natto sold in U.S. are kept frozen,I

understand the different situation of countries, so there might be

products deteriorated by flavors and tastes.

Yet natto-kin being strong in temperature, nursing them back to 40-45

degree Celsius with proper nutrition (organinc soy bean) should

recover the property of natto.

Once you are successful in making good tasting natto, your reserved

pack willbe proper natto starter for your next batch.

Just my thought on this. :-)

Isao

[Guest guest]

I can't say for natto, but from what I've read from other people, and

my own experiences with kefiili, you can still get the probiotic

benefits without the, uh, aesthetic issues, by putting it in a blender.

Natto mixed with " other stuff " in a blender loses a lot of the

aromatic smell, and all of the stringiness. Ditto for viili, or kefiili.

The stringiness is from long-chain polysaccharides, which are

easily broken into smaller chains (which doesn't affect the

bacterial mix). I don't recall exactly what reacts with ammonia,

but it's probably something simple (like, the acid in fruit).

--

On 9/8/07, nan4cl <nan4cl@...> wrote:

> I'm a member of a Natto group, but it's inactive, so I'll ask here:

>

> Can natto be cultured so that it's stringy and " done " without getting

> the overwhelming ammonia smell? Does one just check on it

> periodically as it nears its completion time?

>

> Thanks,

> Nance

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Isao

I am new to natto and would appreciate if you could give exact directions on how

to make Natto?

Re: Natto question

Dear Nance,

I did not know there is a Natto group.

Anyway making natto is not very difficult once you set up temperature

control.

approx. 2 days to ferment, 2 days to get matured in the refrege for

taste improvement.(calming/slowing down fermentation). So not

intense periodic check is necessary.

The completion time is seen when it is white thread all over the bean.

When it is near the completion, you can slow down the fermentation by

removing the heat source like 40W lump.

You can leave in the air for them to cool down and you can put it in

the refrege.

Ammonia is toxic and ordoury but it will be put away with fanning and

airing, stirring, and seasoning. When you eat old long kept natto in

the refrege, you may feel it is of ammonia. In that case, stirring

over 100 will help and someting to mix with to coat them.

You can perfectly remove ammonia by stirring with chop sticks when

you want to eat. You can stir over 100 times and add seasoning like

soy sauce and bit of sugar. It is already thready by then and

effective amino acids and peptides are ready for you to be digested.

To add raw beaten egg, kimchi chopped green onion will help taste

your ammonia smell reduced.

randomly written, sorry.

Isao

[Guest guest]

,

I will upload natto making recipe here.

Meanwhile there is incubator photos in the PHOTOS section.

[Guest guest]

I was looking up the process of making soy sauce to examine when the wheat

or barley was added to the process - before or after fermentation. It seems

that soy sauce starts with natto! And it is only after the natto that the

gluten grains are added for a second fermentation. This shows that even the

microbes in natto don't break down gluten. But beyond that, that it might

be possible to make one's own soy sauce. Anyone here trying that?

Connie

_____

From: nutrition

[mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of

[Guest guest]

Connie Hampton wrote:

>I was looking up the process of making soy sauce to examine when the wheat

>or barley was added to the process - before or after fermentation. It seems

>that soy sauce starts with natto! [...]

No, soy sauce starts with making something like miso. Wheat is added at

the start. The liquid pressed off the beans is then taken and fermented.

Natto doesn't come into it.

See this page for a description of both soy sauce and miso fermentation:

http://www.fao.org/docrep/t0532e/t0532e10.htm

Note what it says about tamari: " a much lower proportion of wheat " . This

is why it is important to look for " wheat free " tamari if you need a

gluten-free product.

As to making your own, I don't see why not. I've never made miso though,

so can't comment.

--

Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

The planet is in a pickle, but fermenting will help save us

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Ross.

It came up in a discussion of " what CAN break down gliadin " . And the only

things I found are things I would NOT want to eat.

Connie

_____

From: nutrition

[mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Ross McKay

Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 3:11 PM

nutrition

Subject: Re: Natto question

Connie Hampton wrote:

>I was looking up the process of making soy sauce to examine when the wheat

>or barley was added to the process - before or after fermentation. It seems

>that soy sauce starts with natto! [...]

No, soy sauce starts with making something like miso. Wheat is added at

the start. The liquid pressed off the beans is then taken and fermented.

Natto doesn't come into it.

See this page for a description of both soy sauce and miso fermentation:

http://www.fao. <http://www.fao.org/docrep/t0532e/t0532e10.htm>

org/docrep/t0532e/t0532e10.htm

Note what it says about tamari: " a much lower proportion of wheat " . This

is why it is important to look for " wheat free " tamari if you need a

gluten-free product.

As to making your own, I don't see why not. I've never made miso though,

so can't comment.

--

Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

The planet is in a pickle, but fermenting will help save us

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

There are complete natto making direction at my Asian Culture-food web

page here-

http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/nattomoto/natto.htm

The recipe above is designed to complement the following information on

natto-

http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/koji.html#Natto

Be-well,

Dom

Fieber typed:

> Isao

I am new to natto and would appreciate if you could give exact

directions on how to make Natto?

[Guest guest]

Hi Nance,

I use sterile wheat straw in a cedar wood box for natto making, and

this produces very little noticeable ammonia. I sterilize the straw

grown in my own garden from durum wheat, by pressure steaming for 25

minutes at 15psi. I use a commercial starter and wrap the inoculated

beans in sterile straw and place this in a cedar wood box to ferment.

The straw absorbs most of the ammonia, just like the traditional

method for natto [but fresh " raw " rice straw is used here].

My web page with natto explains the traditional method is some detail

[but not the current method I just explained]-

http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/koji.html#Natto

Be-well,

Dom

[Guest guest]

I have never heard of natto before I joined this group. The only

other fermented soy food I have ever tried is tempeh. I have a large

bucket of soy beans - about 3 gallons. I have to decide what to make

with the beans. Does anyone have preferences on taste of natto vs.

tempeh or other fermented soy products?

I did find this nutritional product that is made from Natto.

http://www.mercola.com/forms/cardioessentials.htm

Thanks

GB

>

> Hi ,

>

> There are complete natto making direction at my Asian Culture-food

web

> page here-

>

> http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/nattomoto/natto.htm

>

> The recipe above is designed to complement the following

information on

> natto-

>

> http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/koji.html#Natto

>

> Be-well,

> Dom

>

> Fieber typed:

> > Isao

> I am new to natto and would appreciate if you could give exact

> directions on how to make Natto?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Natto is very much an acquired taste. The folks that like it, REALLY like

it. To put it mildly, it is weird, and even in Japan, there is a difference

of opinion as to whether or not it is fit to eat. Kind of like, say, limberger

cheese is regarded here.

But it is known to have some really great effects on the body, mainly

due to it's high Vit K content (or so it is thought). I'd love to make the

stuff, myself, and also learn how to eat it (it's on my list of things to do).

I don't think ANYONE could eat 3 gallons of natto though! Even the

people who love it eat, like, 2oz for breakfast. Other people put

it in smoothies (where the flavor disappears: maybe because, as

Isao said, when it gets " mixed " enough the ammonia goes away).

If I was to attempt something with 3 gallons of soy beans, I'd

go for Miso. Miso keeps a long time, and it has a zillion uses.

It's the all-purpose seasoner, soup-maker, whatever.

--

On 9/12/07, Guru K <greatyoga@...> wrote:

> I have never heard of natto before I joined this group. The only

> other fermented soy food I have ever tried is tempeh. I have a large

> bucket of soy beans - about 3 gallons. I have to decide what to make

> with the beans. Does anyone have preferences on taste of natto vs.

> tempeh or other fermented soy products?

>

> I did find this nutritional product that is made from Natto.

> http://www.mercola.com/forms/cardioessentials.htm

>

> Thanks

> GB

[Guest guest]

Guru K wrote:

>I have never heard of natto before I joined this group. The only

>other fermented soy food I have ever tried is tempeh. I have a large

>bucket of soy beans - about 3 gallons. I have to decide what to make

>with the beans. Does anyone have preferences on taste of natto vs.

>tempeh or other fermented soy products?

Two completely different things.

First, natto - very strong flavour, and like

[Guest guest]

and Ross,

I do like strong tasting things. I do not know if I would like

something that tasted like ammonia though. I think to start out, I

would like to make both miso and tempeh. Not at the same time

though. I can report back later, although I do not have a date when

I will do it. I'll read up on both for right now.

Thanks to both of you for your help.

GB

>

> >I have never heard of natto before I joined this group. The only

> >other fermented soy food I have ever tried is tempeh. I have a

large

> >bucket of soy beans - about 3 gallons. I have to decide what to

make

> >with the beans. Does anyone have preferences on taste of natto

vs.

> >tempeh or other fermented soy products?

>

> Two completely different things.

[Guest guest]

Great to see all this Natto discussion. It's one of my favorite foods. Just a

dash of tamari, wasabi, and green onions. I would say anyone who enjoys the

really stinky cheeses will do fine with natto.

Now my question for the experts out there,

How long does it keep in the fridge? I also made and froze a big batch, but

have read to only do so for 2 months? Does the Bacillus subtilis Natto die off?

Thanks,

Terry

[Guest guest]

Ross,

You have me interested. Is the process you describe for sufu or for

something else? It sounds interesting.

Thanks

GB

>

> There's some good suggestions there, Ross. Miso in my books, is a

must

> for one who eats cooked food. Adding a small amount of real miso to

a

> cooked dish, not that pasteurized stuff that's sold as miso, but

the raw

> stuff that is home made being the best, contains active enzymes

that

> assists digestion, which cooking destroys. That also true for a

real soy

> sauce. A little of either of these foods is all that;s required.

>

> And not to forget sufu is also loaded with enzymes which well

> compliments a cooked food diet. And with the amount of soybeans in

> questions by Guru K, one can make a good amount of either of the

above,

> and store store store, for these improves with age, especially so

with

> sufu. One can make a good sufu with tempeh starter, as I often do

and it

> is reasonably easy once the initial tofu is prepared. Kept in jars

with

> a little rice wine and salt, and may be seed spices for added

flavour,

> it keeps well for years to come.

[Guest guest]

Sorry, I addressed the last post to Ross instead of Dominic.

GB

[Guest guest]

Hi Ross,

I'm in the process of getting my act together for preparing a fresh

starter for Onchom, my spore stock is a little low. When I have some

I'll let you know, or, try me in say 2 months time. Time is of essence

these days, with an almost 3 year old--- I don't have much spare time

like I used to.

It's great to learn that those other spores I sent you are still viable.

Hope you try miso making soon. That's on my list too, 4 my 2 year old

batch is almost finished and I have not had a chance to make miso in

between. I have sufu to turn to in this case, which I refer to as a

" tofu-miso " for obvious reason.

Be-well,

Dom

Ross McKay typed:

> G'day Dom,

.... Once you have these going well, would you be willing to distribute the

> spore for a small fee? I'd love to try them out, especially the onchom

> spores.