Re: Why do indians have a low incidence of cancer

[Guest guest]

On 4/17/06, kefir_king <kefir_king@...> wrote:

> Spices are so potent as anti cancer, anti oxidents...the idea of the

> spice berries was designed by Nature ( oh isnt she soooo clever)...to

> fight and kill all the bugs that try and attack the plant...

> Preparing indian pickles...known as achar is a great why to keep low

> down on cancer...you can have a spoonfull with every meal...recent

> scientific studies have shown Spices to be absolute Ace...I consider

> them to be at the forefront of keeping a healthy body...they were

> supposed to be used to pereserve meat...but I dont buy that, because

> the Indians were vegtarians for 1000s of years and meat was only

> introduced into their diet in the 15-16th century...

.... or could it be because most of the population never goes to a

doctor? What percentage of the Indian population is actually

undergoing the expensive tests involved, even if they do go to a

doctor?

And seriously-- meat " introduced into their diet " in the 15th century?

Come on...

[Guest guest]

On 4/17/06, kefir_king <kefir_king@...> wrote:

>but I dont buy that, because

> the Indians were vegtarians for 1000s of years and meat was only

> introduced into their diet in the 15-16th century...

This is most definitely absolutely untrue, most obviously the part

about the 15th-16th century. Cows have been an integral part of Indian

culture for many thousands of years and it's only relatively recently

(past one or two thousand years?) that the Hindu portion of the

country stopped eating them. Plus, lots of other meats have been eaten

in India going back as far as we now and continuing. Don't forget

that rats and mice are a common food in some parts of India, where

they're obtained in large quantities from rice fields. And of course

fish are eaten in large quantities along the coast like anywhere else.

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

[Guest guest]

In pre-Hindu Vedic times, meat was eaten so it is impossible that it was only

introduced in the 15th century.

" Animal sacrifice, eating of meat, and vegetarianism are all recommended in the

Vedas & Puranas depending on occupation and caste. The warrior caste (ksatriya)

and kings are instructed to hunt and kill wild animals as practice for fighting,

and so they became accustomed to killing for use on the battlefield. People from

the labourer (sudra) and merchant (vaisha) castes who wish to eat meat are

encouranged to kill 'lower' animals such as pigs and goats and to offer them

first in sacrifice to particular demigods such as Kali. For those seeking

religious perfection and for the priestly class (Brahmanas) the killing and

eating of animals was strictly forbidden, with all food having to be offered to

Lord Vishnu before being taken as 'prasadam'. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_religion

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: " kefir_king " <kefir_king@...>

[Guest guest]

Yet you still don't understand the difference between Vedic and Hindu?

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: " kefir_king " <kefir_king@...>

[Guest guest]

Sorry

You have your facts wrong...where do you get your information from?

-- In nutrition , " Anton "

<michaelantonparker@...> wrote:

>

> On 4/17/06, kefir_king <kefir_king@...> wrote:

> >but I dont buy that, because

> > the Indians were vegtarians for 1000s of years and meat was only

> > introduced into their diet in the 15-16th century...

>

> This is most definitely absolutely untrue, most obviously the part

> about the 15th-16th century. Cows have been an integral part of

Indian

> culture for many thousands of years and it's only relatively

recently

> (past one or two thousand years?) that the Hindu portion of the

> country stopped eating them. Plus, lots of other meats have been

eaten

> in India going back as far as we now and continuing. Don't forget

> that rats and mice are a common food in some parts of India, where

> they're obtained in large quantities from rice fields. And of course

> fish are eaten in large quantities along the coast like anywhere

else.

>

> Mike

> SE Pennsylvania

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, in pre-vedic times...when the vedas were introduced, the hindu

became predominately a vegetarian...the first veda was the rig veda

Scriptures Against Killing and Meat-Eating

Hindu scripture speaks clearly and forcefully on nonkilling and

vegetarianism. In the ancient Rig Veda, we read: " O vegetable, be

succulent, wholesome, strengthening; and thus, body, be fully grown. "

The Yajur Veda summarily dictates: " Do not injure the beings living

on the earth, in the air and in the water. " The beautiful Tirukural,

a widely-read 2,000-year-old masterpiece of ethics, speaks of

conscience: " When a man realizes that meat is the butchered flesh of

another creature, he must abstain from eating it. " The Manu Samhita

advises: " Having well considered the origin of flesh and the cruelty

of fettering and slaying of corporeal beings, let one entirely

abstain from eating flesh. " In the yoga-infused verses of the

Tirumantiram, warning is given of how meat-eating holds the mind in

gross, adharmic states: " The ignoble ones who eat flesh, death's

agents bind them fast and push them quick into the fiery jaws of hell

(Naraka, lower consciousness). " The roots of noninjury, nonkilling

and nonconsumption of meat are found in the Vedas, agamas,

Upanishads, Dharma Shastras, Tirumurai, Yoga Sutras and dozens of

other sacred texts of Hinduism.

What surprises me about this thread is that someone is trying to re-

write history...it is a well known fact that the Moguls brought with

them all the main dishes like the Tandori...the Tandori is a special

oven made out of clay which is widely used in central asia...

The Moguls invaded indian in the 1500's...

>

> In pre-Hindu Vedic times, meat was eaten so it is impossible that

it was only introduced in the 15th century.

>

> " Animal sacrifice, eating of meat, and vegetarianism are all

recommended in the Vedas & Puranas depending on occupation and caste.

The warrior caste (ksatriya) and kings are instructed to hunt and

kill wild animals as practice for fighting, and so they became

accustomed to killing for use on the battlefield. People from the

labourer (sudra) and merchant (vaisha) castes who wish to eat meat

are encouranged to kill 'lower' animals such as pigs and goats and to

offer them first in sacrifice to particular demigods such as Kali.

For those seeking religious perfection and for the priestly class

(Brahmanas) the killing and eating of animals was strictly forbidden,

with all food having to be offered to Lord Vishnu before being taken

as 'prasadam'. "

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_religion

>

>

>

>

> -------------- Original message ----------------------

> From: " kefir_king " <kefir_king@...>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Its really amazing..i dont know why you are arguing...every school

kid knows that Hindus are mainly vegetarians...

here is the oldest Vedic scripture (1500 BC) The Rig Veda...in black

and white...

" One who partakes of human flesh, the flesh of a horse or of another

animal, and deprives others of milk by slaughtering cows, O King, if

such a fiend does not desist by other means, then you should not

hesitate to cut off his head. "

Rig Veda Samhita, 10.87.16, FS 90

>

> Yet you still don't understand the difference between Vedic and

Hindu?

>

> -------------- Original message ----------------------

> From: " kefir_king " <kefir_king@...>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

As I don't read the Bible to learn about USA, I don't read Hindu scriptures

to learn about India. A people is more than its religion.

And, by the way, I have some Brahmin friends who don't eat spices, as it is

seen as not being good for pure living according to their tradition. And I

have Brahmin friends from another part of India, who eat very hot food.

India is vast with many customs, really it is more a continent than a

country.

Please stop this discussion now.

Tove

Re: Why do indians have a low incidence of cancer

> Its really amazing..i dont know why you are arguing...every school

> kid knows that Hindus are mainly vegetarians...

> here is the oldest Vedic scripture (1500 BC) The Rig Veda...in black

> and white...

>

> " One who partakes of human flesh, the flesh of a horse or of another

> animal, and deprives others of milk by slaughtering cows, O King, if

> such a fiend does not desist by other means, then you should not

> hesitate to cut off his head. "

> Rig Veda Samhita, 10.87.16, FS 90

>

>

>

>>

>> Yet you still don't understand the difference between Vedic and

> Hindu?

[Guest guest]

On 4/17/06, kefir_king <kefir_king@...> wrote:

<snipped garbage>

> What surprises me about this thread is that someone is trying to re-

> write history...it is a well known fact that the Moguls brought with

> them all the main dishes like the Tandori...the Tandori is a special

> oven made out of clay which is widely used in central asia...

>

> The Moguls invaded indian in the 1500's...

No, this is not well-known. If you'd read more than a paragraph or

two snipped from random pages pooped out of google then you might know

something about the actual history. Hindu is not Vedic, not every

nonveg dish in India came from the Moghuls, etc etc etc. There is a

complicated historical process involved here that isn't as simple as

repeatedly stating the modern conception of Hinduism and some fancies

about tandoori chicken. Please, actually study this history before

pontificating on it.

[Guest guest]

Hinduism is considered post-Vedic, evolving from the Vedic religion & culture.

There is a difference between Vedic and Hindu.

No one is arguing that the Monguls didn't contribute greatly to Indian cuisine,

just your contention tha they brought " meat-eating " , which is clearly not the

case.

In his Tagore Memorial Lectures, 1964-65, Man in the Universe. Prof Brown

states:

“Though the Upanishadas contain the first literary reference to the idea of

rebirth and to the notion that one’s action- karma determines the conditions of

one’s future exitences, and though they arrive at the point of recognising that

rebirth may occur not only in animal form but also in animal bodies, they tell

us nothing about the precept of ahimsa. Yet that precept is later associated

with the belief that a soul in its wandering may inhabit both kinds of forms.

Ancient Brahmanical literature is conspicuously silent about ahimsa. The early

Vedic texts do not even record the noun ahimsa nor know the ethical meaning

which the noun later designated…Nor is an explanation of ahimsa deducible from

other parts of Vedic literature. The ethical concept which it embodies was

entirely foreign to the thinking of the early Vedic Aryans, who recognized no

kinship between human and animal relation, but rather ate meat and offered

animals in the sacrifice to the gods.” (pp.53-54) "

http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/01052003/01052003101.htm

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " kefir_king " <kefir_king@...>

Yes, in pre-vedic times...when the vedas were introduced, the hindu

became predominately a vegetarian...the first veda was the rig veda

[Guest guest]

Yes, every school kid whose depth of knowledge about thousands of

years of history are as sophisticated as, well, a school kid's.

On 4/17/06, kefir_king <kefir_king@...> wrote:

> Its really amazing..i dont know why you are arguing...every school

> kid knows that Hindus are mainly vegetarians...

> here is the oldest Vedic scripture (1500 BC) The Rig Veda...in black

> and white...

>

> " One who partakes of human flesh, the flesh of a horse or of another

> animal, and deprives others of milk by slaughtering cows, O King, if

> such a fiend does not desist by other means, then you should not

> hesitate to cut off his head. "

> Rig Veda Samhita, 10.87.16, FS 90

>

>

>

> >

> > Yet you still don't understand the difference between Vedic and

> Hindu?

[Guest guest]

> Preparing indian pickles...known as achar is a great why to keep low

> down on cancer...you can have a spoonfull with every meal...recent

I love India's lemon pickle. I eat it whenever I hit the local Indian buffet

Z

Why do indians have a low incidence of cancer

> Spices are so potent as anti cancer, anti oxidents...the idea of the

> spice berries was designed by Nature ( oh isnt she soooo clever)...to

> fight and kill all the bugs that try and attack the plant...

> Preparing indian pickles...known as achar is a great why to keep low

> down on cancer...you can have a spoonfull with every meal...recent

> scientific studies have shown Spices to be absolute Ace...I consider

> them to be at the forefront of keeping a healthy body...they were

> supposed to be used to pereserve meat...but I dont buy that, because

> the Indians were vegtarians for 1000s of years and meat was only

> introduced into their diet in the 15-16th century...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I just made myself 3 jars of fermented lemon and mango spiced pickles...really

great...tasty and very healthy....

I even eat them with sushi...plus my home made horseradish, pickled/fermented

ginger...fresh horseradish is pungent...it hits you right in the nostrils...

zz618@... wrote:

> Preparing indian pickles...known as achar is a great why to keep low

> down on cancer...you can have a spoonfull with every meal...recent

I love India's lemon pickle. I eat it whenever I hit the local Indian buffet

Z

Why do indians have a low incidence of cancer

> Spices are so potent as anti cancer, anti oxidents...the idea of the

> spice berries was designed by Nature ( oh isnt she soooo clever)...to

> fight and kill all the bugs that try and attack the plant...

> Preparing indian pickles...known as achar is a great why to keep low

> down on cancer...you can have a spoonfull with every meal...recent

> scientific studies have shown Spices to be absolute Ace...I consider

> them to be at the forefront of keeping a healthy body...they were

> supposed to be used to pereserve meat...but I dont buy that, because

> the Indians were vegtarians for 1000s of years and meat was only

> introduced into their diet in the 15-16th century...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>I just made myself 3 jars of fermented lemon and mango spiced pickles

Heh -you ain't fooling around.

I made some saltless sauerkraut today. I like to juice it when it's ready.

Horseradish must be good with sushi because wasabi is a dried Japanese

horseradish of some kind. I never make sushi. I'll make sashimi (tuna

usually) and eat it with some brown rice on the side. Soy sauce and mustard

sauce on the side. I should make pickled ginger. I'm not going to buy it

with that fake pink color, though I'll eat it in a restaurant

Z

Why do indians have a low incidence of cancer

> Spices are so potent as anti cancer, anti oxidents...the idea of the

> spice berries was designed by Nature ( oh isnt she soooo clever)...to

> fight and kill all the bugs that try and attack the plant...

> Preparing indian pickles...known as achar is a great why to keep low

> down on cancer...you can have a spoonfull with every meal...recent

> scientific studies have shown Spices to be absolute Ace...I consider

> them to be at the forefront of keeping a healthy body...they were

> supposed to be used to pereserve meat...but I dont buy that, because

> the Indians were vegtarians for 1000s of years and meat was only

> introduced into their diet in the 15-16th century...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Even the so called " green wasabi " in sushi bars is not real wasabi..its

horesradish with green color added...sucks...

Yeh...ginger is very easy to ferment and pickle...i fermented it in brine for

2 weeks then I pickled it..it turned slightly pink..taste good...

How did you do your saltless saurkraut...?

zz618@... wrote:

>I just made myself 3 jars of fermented lemon and mango spiced pickles

Heh -you ain't fooling around.

I made some saltless sauerkraut today. I like to juice it when it's ready.

Horseradish must be good with sushi because wasabi is a dried Japanese

horseradish of some kind. I never make sushi. I'll make sashimi (tuna

usually) and eat it with some brown rice on the side. Soy sauce and mustard

sauce on the side. I should make pickled ginger. I'm not going to buy it

with that fake pink color, though I'll eat it in a restaurant

Z

Why do indians have a low incidence of cancer

> Spices are so potent as anti cancer, anti oxidents...the idea of the

> spice berries was designed by Nature ( oh isnt she soooo clever)...to

> fight and kill all the bugs that try and attack the plant...

> Preparing indian pickles...known as achar is a great why to keep low

> down on cancer...you can have a spoonfull with every meal...recent

> scientific studies have shown Spices to be absolute Ace...I consider

> them to be at the forefront of keeping a healthy body...they were

> supposed to be used to pereserve meat...but I dont buy that, because

> the Indians were vegtarians for 1000s of years and meat was only

> introduced into their diet in the 15-16th century...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Pacific Farms in Oregon has a selection of real wasabi pastes & dressings.

They're one of the few places I know of to get the stuff. They used to sell live

plants & seeds, but alas no more.

http://www.freshwasabi.com/

Re: Why do indians have a low incidence of cancer

Even the so called " green wasabi " in sushi bars is not real wasabi..its

horesradish with green color added...sucks...

Yeh...ginger is very easy to ferment and pickle...i fermented it in brine

for 2 weeks then I pickled it..it turned slightly pink..taste good...

How did you do your saltless saurkraut...?

[Guest guest]

yes I know them...they send it frozen packed...my home made

horseradish roots burn my nostrils...so I am ok right now...and I

have about a kg to go through...:-)

>

> Pacific Farms in Oregon has a selection of real wasabi pastes &

dressings. They're one of the few places I know of to get the stuff.

They used to sell live plants & seeds, but alas no more.

>

> http://www.freshwasabi.com/

>

> Re: Why do indians have a low incidence of cancer

>

>

> Even the so called " green wasabi " in sushi bars is not real

wasabi..its horesradish with green color added...sucks...

> Yeh...ginger is very easy to ferment and pickle...i fermented

it in brine for 2 weeks then I pickled it..it turned slightly

pink..taste good...

> How did you do your saltless saurkraut...?

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, and kefir king,

What an interesting debate!

I haven't been reading messages for a few days, so when I got to

kefir king's original post about achar and spices, I just decided to

read that whole thread rather than going in chronological order on

the posts. (I read messages from the web.) I wanted to see further

discussion of the topic as I have a real interest in Indian cuisine

and eat it at home more than 50% of the time, since dh is originally

from India.

I didn't get any more info on the anti-cancer effect of spices, but I

did find the debate about meat-eaters in India rather interesting. I

have no scholarly knowledge of this, certainly no dates, but I wanted

to offer you some first-hand knowledge of something that may help.

We have associated with many people in India and from India. What

may be the missing link in kefir king's info is that Hindus are not

the only large population in India. There is a huge Muslim

population and also many large Christian groups. The Christians in

India are still Indians, not immigrants, and live and eat in the

Indian tradition. Obviously, we know that neither Muslims nor

Christians are vegetarians. There are also Buddhists, Ba'hai, and

many other cultures and religions as well.

Then within the Hindus, there are numerous castes, each with their

own cultures. Some of those castes are traditionally vegetarian, and

some are not. A little of that was alluded to when one of you

brought up Brahmins. It's always been widely perceived that Hinduism

equals vegetarianism to outsiders, so when I started meeting friends

in USA who ate meat, I asked them about it. I thought maybe they

converted after they came here and relaxed their dietary

restrictions. But no, they said it depends on what region of India

you are raised in, and her caste, loosely translated, was " chicken

eaters. "

So between the Muslims and the Christians and the non-veg Hindu

castes, there really is a lot of non-veg food eaten in India. I have

noticed that most Indian restaurants typically serve what we

call " Northern Indian " cuisine and perhaps that is the one that

originated from the Moghuls, I don't know. But there are soooooo

many cuisines in India. As you travel from state to state, the type

of cuisine (as well as the language) are completely different. Each

state has typical dishes not prepared in other parts of India. So

being such a diverse nation, it would be hard to generalize the diet

in any way, I'm sure.

So, HTH a little in drawing the two sides of the debate a little

closer together. If not, well, everyone who read this learned a

little more about the people of India...... And we still don't know

any more about whether spices and achars help to prevent cancer.....

~ ~

> >

> > On 4/17/06, kefir_king <kefir_king@> wrote:

> > > Brahmins are strict vegetarians...

[Guest guest]

So tell me, Is Mango Atchar healthy? I live in South Africa, there is a HUGE

indian population here. I can get some real, authentically made (no benzoate

or citric acid or other " acidifier " ) Mango Atchar! Always wanted to, but I'm

afraid of the carb content. Also, I have a very sensitive stomach.

On 4/18/06, sweet_gentle_soul <angiecafriend@...> wrote:

>

> Wow, and kefir king,

> What an interesting debate!

>

> I haven't been reading messages for a few days, so when I got to

> kefir king's original post about achar and spices, I just decided to

> read that whole thread rather than going in chronological order on

> the posts. (I read messages from the web.) I wanted to see further

> discussion of the topic as I have a real interest in Indian cuisine

> and eat it at home more than 50% of the time, since dh is originally

> from India.

>

> I didn't get any more info on the anti-cancer effect of spices, but I

> did find the debate about meat-eaters in India rather interesting. I

> have no scholarly knowledge of this, certainly no dates, but I wanted

> to offer you some first-hand knowledge of something that may help.

>

> We have associated with many people in India and from India. What

> may be the missing link in kefir king's info is that Hindus are not

> the only large population in India. There is a huge Muslim

> population and also many large Christian groups. The Christians in

> India are still Indians, not immigrants, and live and eat in the

> Indian tradition. Obviously, we know that neither Muslims nor

> Christians are vegetarians. There are also Buddhists, Ba'hai, and

> many other cultures and religions as well.

>

> Then within the Hindus, there are numerous castes, each with their

> own cultures. Some of those castes are traditionally vegetarian, and

> some are not. A little of that was alluded to when one of you

> brought up Brahmins. It's always been widely perceived that Hinduism

> equals vegetarianism to outsiders, so when I started meeting friends

> in USA who ate meat, I asked them about it. I thought maybe they

> converted after they came here and relaxed their dietary

> restrictions. But no, they said it depends on what region of India

> you are raised in, and her caste, loosely translated, was " chicken

> eaters. "

>

> So between the Muslims and the Christians and the non-veg Hindu

> castes, there really is a lot of non-veg food eaten in India. I have

> noticed that most Indian restaurants typically serve what we

> call " Northern Indian " cuisine and perhaps that is the one that

> originated from the Moghuls, I don't know. But there are soooooo

> many cuisines in India. As you travel from state to state, the type

> of cuisine (as well as the language) are completely different. Each

> state has typical dishes not prepared in other parts of India. So

> being such a diverse nation, it would be hard to generalize the diet

> in any way, I'm sure.

>

> So, HTH a little in drawing the two sides of the debate a little

> closer together. If not, well, everyone who read this learned a

> little more about the people of India...... And we still don't know

> any more about whether spices and achars help to prevent cancer.....

>

> ~ ~

>

>

> > >

> > > On 4/17/06, kefir_king <kefir_king@> wrote:

> > > > Brahmins are strict vegetarians...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ooooh. I REALLY want, no NEED to make ginger pickle. Teach me! How do you

ferment it in brine? What culture do you add? Wow. I so wanted to know how

to do that.

On 4/18/06, kefir king <kefir_king@...> wrote:

>

> Even the so called " green wasabi " in sushi bars is not real wasabi..its

> horesradish with green color added...sucks...

> Yeh...ginger is very easy to ferment and pickle...i fermented it in

> brine for 2 weeks then I pickled it..it turned slightly pink..taste good...

> How did you do your saltless saurkraut...?

>

>

> zz618@... wrote:

> >I just made myself 3 jars of fermented lemon and mango spiced pickles

>

> Heh -you ain't fooling around.

>

> I made some saltless sauerkraut today. I like to juice it when it's ready.

>

> Horseradish must be good with sushi because wasabi is a dried Japanese

> horseradish of some kind. I never make sushi. I'll make sashimi (tuna

> usually) and eat it with some brown rice on the side. Soy sauce and

> mustard

> sauce on the side. I should make pickled ginger. I'm not going to buy it

> with that fake pink color, though I'll eat it in a restaurant

>

>

>

> Z

>

>

> Why do indians have a low incidence of cancer

>

>

> > Spices are so potent as anti cancer, anti oxidents...the idea of the

> > spice berries was designed by Nature ( oh isnt she soooo clever)...to

> > fight and kill all the bugs that try and attack the plant...

> > Preparing indian pickles...known as achar is a great why to keep low

> > down on cancer...you can have a spoonfull with every meal...recent

> > scientific studies have shown Spices to be absolute Ace...I consider

> > them to be at the forefront of keeping a healthy body...they were

> > supposed to be used to pereserve meat...but I dont buy that, because

> > the Indians were vegtarians for 1000s of years and meat was only

> > introduced into their diet in the 15-16th century...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes...spices are a phenomenal source of anti-oxidents, anti bacterial ,

anti-fungal...the most famous is Tumeric, which has been used in extensive

studies relating to cancer.

http://www.mercola.com/2005/jul/30/cancer_spices.htm

There are other spices which also have similar properties, cumin, chillie...I

personally think that a pinch of spice a day is a great way to boost the imune

system...

But I will dig up more reesearch on spices if you are interested...As I said

the spice berries are there to protect the plants from insects and other

bacterial infection diseases in a hostile environment...so I think they can play

a similar role inside the body...

As far as the Hindus discusion, that was not really the main reason for my

post...Indians of all persuaions eat a huge amount of spices...India exports

nearly 40% of the world spice production...I really do believe that it is a

major contributing factor to their health...it is such a potent internal

cleanser..

The Northern Indian cusine you refer to in restraunts is Mogul inspired

food...

sweet_gentle_soul <angiecafriend@...> wrote:

Wow, and kefir king,

What an interesting debate!

I haven't been reading messages for a few days, so when I got to

kefir king's original post about achar and spices, I just decided to

read that whole thread rather than going in chronological order on

the posts. (I read messages from the web.) I wanted to see further

discussion of the topic as I have a real interest in Indian cuisine

and eat it at home more than 50% of the time, since dh is originally

from India.

I didn't get any more info on the anti-cancer effect of spices, but I

did find the debate about meat-eaters in India rather interesting. I

have no scholarly knowledge of this, certainly no dates, but I wanted

to offer you some first-hand knowledge of something that may help.

We have associated with many people in India and from India. What

may be the missing link in kefir king's info is that Hindus are not

the only large population in India. There is a huge Muslim

population and also many large Christian groups. The Christians in

India are still Indians, not immigrants, and live and eat in the

Indian tradition. Obviously, we know that neither Muslims nor

Christians are vegetarians. There are also Buddhists, Ba'hai, and

many other cultures and religions as well.

Then within the Hindus, there are numerous castes, each with their

own cultures. Some of those castes are traditionally vegetarian, and

some are not. A little of that was alluded to when one of you

brought up Brahmins. It's always been widely perceived that Hinduism

equals vegetarianism to outsiders, so when I started meeting friends

in USA who ate meat, I asked them about it. I thought maybe they

converted after they came here and relaxed their dietary

restrictions. But no, they said it depends on what region of India

you are raised in, and her caste, loosely translated, was " chicken

eaters. "

So between the Muslims and the Christians and the non-veg Hindu

castes, there really is a lot of non-veg food eaten in India. I have

noticed that most Indian restaurants typically serve what we

call " Northern Indian " cuisine and perhaps that is the one that

originated from the Moghuls, I don't know. But there are soooooo

many cuisines in India. As you travel from state to state, the type

of cuisine (as well as the language) are completely different. Each

state has typical dishes not prepared in other parts of India. So

being such a diverse nation, it would be hard to generalize the diet

in any way, I'm sure.

So, HTH a little in drawing the two sides of the debate a little

closer together. If not, well, everyone who read this learned a

little more about the people of India...... And we still don't know

any more about whether spices and achars help to prevent cancer.....

~ ~

> >

> > On 4/17/06, kefir_king <kefir_king@> wrote:

> > > Brahmins are strict vegetarians...

[Guest guest]

Yes...spices are a phenomenal source of anti-oxidents, anti bacterial ,

anti-fungal...the most famous is Tumeric, which has been used in extensive

studies relating to cancer.

http://www.mercola.com/2005/jul/30/cancer_spices.htm

There are other spices which also have similar properties, cumin, chillie...I

personally think that a pinch of spice a day is a great way to boost the imune

system...

But I will dig up more reesearch on spices if you are interested...As I said

the spice berries are there to protect the plants from insects and other

bacterial infection diseases in a hostile environment...so I think they can play

a similar role inside the body...

As far as the Hindus discusion, that was not really the main reason for my

post...Indians of all persuaions eat a huge amount of spices...India exports

nearly 40% of the world spice production...I really do believe that it is a

major contributing factor to their health...it is such a potent internal

cleanser..

The Northern Indian cusine you refer to in restraunts is Mogul inspired

food...

sweet_gentle_soul <angiecafriend@...> wrote:

Wow, and kefir king,

What an interesting debate!

I haven't been reading messages for a few days, so when I got to

kefir king's original post about achar and spices, I just decided to

read that whole thread rather than going in chronological order on

the posts. (I read messages from the web.) I wanted to see further

discussion of the topic as I have a real interest in Indian cuisine

and eat it at home more than 50% of the time, since dh is originally

from India.

I didn't get any more info on the anti-cancer effect of spices, but I

did find the debate about meat-eaters in India rather interesting. I

have no scholarly knowledge of this, certainly no dates, but I wanted

to offer you some first-hand knowledge of something that may help.

We have associated with many people in India and from India. What

may be the missing link in kefir king's info is that Hindus are not

the only large population in India. There is a huge Muslim

population and also many large Christian groups. The Christians in

India are still Indians, not immigrants, and live and eat in the

Indian tradition. Obviously, we know that neither Muslims nor

Christians are vegetarians. There are also Buddhists, Ba'hai, and

many other cultures and religions as well.

Then within the Hindus, there are numerous castes, each with their

own cultures. Some of those castes are traditionally vegetarian, and

some are not. A little of that was alluded to when one of you

brought up Brahmins. It's always been widely perceived that Hinduism

equals vegetarianism to outsiders, so when I started meeting friends

in USA who ate meat, I asked them about it. I thought maybe they

converted after they came here and relaxed their dietary

restrictions. But no, they said it depends on what region of India

you are raised in, and her caste, loosely translated, was " chicken

eaters. "

So between the Muslims and the Christians and the non-veg Hindu

castes, there really is a lot of non-veg food eaten in India. I have

noticed that most Indian restaurants typically serve what we

call " Northern Indian " cuisine and perhaps that is the one that

originated from the Moghuls, I don't know. But there are soooooo

many cuisines in India. As you travel from state to state, the type

of cuisine (as well as the language) are completely different. Each

state has typical dishes not prepared in other parts of India. So

being such a diverse nation, it would be hard to generalize the diet

in any way, I'm sure.

So, HTH a little in drawing the two sides of the debate a little

closer together. If not, well, everyone who read this learned a

little more about the people of India...... And we still don't know

any more about whether spices and achars help to prevent cancer.....

~ ~

> >

> > On 4/17/06, kefir_king <kefir_king@> wrote:

> > > Brahmins are strict vegetarians...

[Guest guest]

Yes it is very good for you..just eat it in small amounts with food..it helps

your digestion and the spices clear your gut out of bad pathogens

Dirk Coetsee <dirk.coetsee@...> wrote: So tell me, Is Mango Atchar

healthy? I live in South Africa, there is a HUGE

indian population here. I can get some real, authentically made (no benzoate

or citric acid or other " acidifier " ) Mango Atchar! Always wanted to, but I'm

afraid of the carb content. Also, I have a very sensitive stomach.

On 4/18/06, sweet_gentle_soul <angiecafriend@...> wrote:

>

> Wow, and kefir king,

> What an interesting debate!

>

> I haven't been reading messages for a few days, so when I got to

> kefir king's original post about achar and spices, I just decided to

> read that whole thread rather than going in chronological order on

> the posts. (I read messages from the web.) I wanted to see further

> discussion of the topic as I have a real interest in Indian cuisine

> and eat it at home more than 50% of the time, since dh is originally

> from India.

>

> I didn't get any more info on the anti-cancer effect of spices, but I

> did find the debate about meat-eaters in India rather interesting. I

> have no scholarly knowledge of this, certainly no dates, but I wanted

> to offer you some first-hand knowledge of something that may help.

>

> We have associated with many people in India and from India. What

> may be the missing link in kefir king's info is that Hindus are not

> the only large population in India. There is a huge Muslim

> population and also many large Christian groups. The Christians in

> India are still Indians, not immigrants, and live and eat in the

> Indian tradition. Obviously, we know that neither Muslims nor

> Christians are vegetarians. There are also Buddhists, Ba'hai, and

> many other cultures and religions as well.

>

> Then within the Hindus, there are numerous castes, each with their

> own cultures. Some of those castes are traditionally vegetarian, and

> some are not. A little of that was alluded to when one of you

> brought up Brahmins. It's always been widely perceived that Hinduism

> equals vegetarianism to outsiders, so when I started meeting friends

> in USA who ate meat, I asked them about it. I thought maybe they

> converted after they came here and relaxed their dietary

> restrictions. But no, they said it depends on what region of India

> you are raised in, and her caste, loosely translated, was " chicken

> eaters. "

>

> So between the Muslims and the Christians and the non-veg Hindu

> castes, there really is a lot of non-veg food eaten in India. I have

> noticed that most Indian restaurants typically serve what we

> call " Northern Indian " cuisine and perhaps that is the one that

> originated from the Moghuls, I don't know. But there are soooooo

> many cuisines in India. As you travel from state to state, the type

> of cuisine (as well as the language) are completely different. Each

> state has typical dishes not prepared in other parts of India. So

> being such a diverse nation, it would be hard to generalize the diet

> in any way, I'm sure.

>

> So, HTH a little in drawing the two sides of the debate a little

> closer together. If not, well, everyone who read this learned a

> little more about the people of India...... And we still don't know

> any more about whether spices and achars help to prevent cancer.....

>

> ~ ~

>

>

> > >

> > > On 4/17/06, kefir_king <kefir_king@> wrote:

> > > > Brahmins are strict vegetarians...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately eating lots of spice does not equate to good health. I have

lots of indian friends. Two of them are twins. There mother uses a lot of

spices - ESPECIALLY chilli, as all indians. The one developed terrible bowel

complaints, the other had chronic acne and eventually developed an inflamed

liver from antibiotic treatment. He is better now after using SAFI and doing

a liver flush. Not 100% better though. Man, I love spicey food. But if I

have too much, it really hurts me.

You are right though that turmeric, incidentally, is really an amazing

spice. Health shops purify its extract and sell it, but the yellow powder

sure is cheap! Has all kinds of beneficial properties apparently. Also, the

" pungent " herbs: cinnamon, cloves, nutmeg, ginger etc. are supposed to be

great for digestion and stuff (like chai tea...)

On 4/18/06, kefir king <kefir_king@...> wrote:

>

> Yes...spices are a phenomenal source of anti-oxidents, anti bacterial ,

> anti-fungal...the most famous is Tumeric, which has been used in extensive

> studies relating to cancer.

>

> http://www.mercola.com/2005/jul/30/cancer_spices.htm

>

> There are other spices which also have similar properties, cumin,

> chillie...I personally think that a pinch of spice a day is a great way to

> boost the imune system...

> But I will dig up more reesearch on spices if you are interested...As I

> said the spice berries are there to protect the plants from insects and

> other bacterial infection diseases in a hostile environment...so I think

> they can play a similar role inside the body...

>

> As far as the Hindus discusion, that was not really the main reason for

> my post...Indians of all persuaions eat a huge amount of spices...India

> exports nearly 40% of the world spice production...I really do believe that

> it is a major contributing factor to their health...it is such a potent

> internal cleanser..

>

> The Northern Indian cusine you refer to in restraunts is Mogul inspired

> food...

>

>

> sweet_gentle_soul <angiecafriend@...> wrote:

> Wow, and kefir king,

> What an interesting debate!

>

> I haven't been reading messages for a few days, so when I got to

> kefir king's original post about achar and spices, I just decided to

> read that whole thread rather than going in chronological order on

> the posts. (I read messages from the web.) I wanted to see further

> discussion of the topic as I have a real interest in Indian cuisine

> and eat it at home more than 50% of the time, since dh is originally

> from India.

>

> I didn't get any more info on the anti-cancer effect of spices, but I

> did find the debate about meat-eaters in India rather interesting. I

> have no scholarly knowledge of this, certainly no dates, but I wanted

> to offer you some first-hand knowledge of something that may help.

>

> We have associated with many people in India and from India. What

> may be the missing link in kefir king's info is that Hindus are not

> the only large population in India. There is a huge Muslim

> population and also many large Christian groups. The Christians in

> India are still Indians, not immigrants, and live and eat in the

> Indian tradition. Obviously, we know that neither Muslims nor

> Christians are vegetarians. There are also Buddhists, Ba'hai, and

> many other cultures and religions as well.

>

> Then within the Hindus, there are numerous castes, each with their

> own cultures. Some of those castes are traditionally vegetarian, and

> some are not. A little of that was alluded to when one of you

> brought up Brahmins. It's always been widely perceived that Hinduism

> equals vegetarianism to outsiders, so when I started meeting friends

> in USA who ate meat, I asked them about it. I thought maybe they

> converted after they came here and relaxed their dietary

> restrictions. But no, they said it depends on what region of India

> you are raised in, and her caste, loosely translated, was " chicken

> eaters. "

>

> So between the Muslims and the Christians and the non-veg Hindu

> castes, there really is a lot of non-veg food eaten in India. I have

> noticed that most Indian restaurants typically serve what we

> call " Northern Indian " cuisine and perhaps that is the one that

> originated from the Moghuls, I don't know. But there are soooooo

> many cuisines in India. As you travel from state to state, the type

> of cuisine (as well as the language) are completely different. Each

> state has typical dishes not prepared in other parts of India. So

> being such a diverse nation, it would be hard to generalize the diet

> in any way, I'm sure.

>

> So, HTH a little in drawing the two sides of the debate a little

> closer together. If not, well, everyone who read this learned a

> little more about the people of India...... And we still don't know

> any more about whether spices and achars help to prevent cancer.....

>

> ~ ~

>

> > >

> > > On 4/17/06, kefir_king <kefir_king@> wrote:

> > > > Brahmins are strict vegetarians...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It is very easy..you just put the ginger chunks in brine solution for 2

weeks...you will see the bubbling..make sure the top of the glass jar is covered

with a water bag...see my photos..

After 2 weeks..you take the ginger out, and discard half to 3/4 the brine

solution...add a mixture of rice vineger and small amount of sugar to top up and

leave standing for 1 week...you will see it turing pinkish color...

Dirk Coetsee <dirk.coetsee@...> wrote:

Ooooh. I REALLY want, no NEED to make ginger pickle. Teach me! How do you

ferment it in brine? What culture do you add? Wow. I so wanted to know how

to do that.

On 4/18/06, kefir king <kefir_king@...> wrote:

>

> Even the so called " green wasabi " in sushi bars is not real wasabi..its

> horesradish with green color added...sucks...

> Yeh...ginger is very easy to ferment and pickle...i fermented it in

> brine for 2 weeks then I pickled it..it turned slightly pink..taste good...

> How did you do your saltless saurkraut...?

>

>

> zz618@... wrote:

> >I just made myself 3 jars of fermented lemon and mango spiced pickles

>

> Heh -you ain't fooling around.

>

> I made some saltless sauerkraut today. I like to juice it when it's ready.

>

> Horseradish must be good with sushi because wasabi is a dried Japanese

> horseradish of some kind. I never make sushi. I'll make sashimi (tuna

> usually) and eat it with some brown rice on the side. Soy sauce and

> mustard

> sauce on the side. I should make pickled ginger. I'm not going to buy it

> with that fake pink color, though I'll eat it in a restaurant

>

>

>

> Z

>

>

> Why do indians have a low incidence of cancer

>

>

> > Spices are so potent as anti cancer, anti oxidents...the idea of the

> > spice berries was designed by Nature ( oh isnt she soooo clever)...to

> > fight and kill all the bugs that try and attack the plant...

> > Preparing indian pickles...known as achar is a great why to keep low

> > down on cancer...you can have a spoonfull with every meal...recent

> > scientific studies have shown Spices to be absolute Ace...I consider

> > them to be at the forefront of keeping a healthy body...they were

> > supposed to be used to pereserve meat...but I dont buy that, because

> > the Indians were vegtarians for 1000s of years and meat was only

> > introduced into their diet in the 15-16th century...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >