Re: Re: I love Armour Thyroid - HOWEVER

[Guest guest]

lmneedham wrote:

>

> I'm on just T3, now up to 50mcg per day, and don't think I can feel

> much worse.

Ask for more. Although that is about the most that is usually

prescribed, you could still need more than that. Just watch for hyperT

symptoms and cut back. The big advantage of T3, is that too much goes

away in a hurry.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

Why is it an advantage that too much t3 goes away in a hurry?

sue

On 8/22/08 6:51 PM, " Chuck B " <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> lmneedham wrote:

>> >

>> > I'm on just T3, now up to 50mcg per day, and don't think I can feel

>> > much worse.

>

> Ask for more. Although that is about the most that is usually

> prescribed, you could still need more than that. Just watch for hyperT

> symptoms and cut back. The big advantage of T3, is that too much goes

> away in a hurry.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

-

Actually physicians don't get PhD's on a regular basis. Most physicians

graduate with a degree in medicine. That is after 4 years of college and

then 4 more years of medical school. In order to get a PhD, one has to

complete extra course work and perform a oral and written dissertation along

with the regular medical school requirements.

-- RE: I love Armour Thyroid - HOWEVER

>

> Which is a " blog " also done by a non medical individual .... and not by a

> professtional in the medical/holitisic/alterantive fields of medicine.

>

> Dusty

[Guest guest]

Maybe we agreeing here, but JIC we 'aint,' I'm saying that a person who goes

to medical school may not know as much about thyroid issues as some do on

this and other groups. Medical school does provide a wide array of hard

sciences therefore, it may be that they need to learn specifically about the

heart or the liver before they can know it all around. A lot of people on

this board can learn about the thyroid or the heart or the liver and know

just as much or more than any medical doctor does about that body part. I'm

just saying that medical school doesn't mean know it all.

Crystal

BA Criminal Justice

More importantly, mother of 5

-- RE: I love Armour Thyroid - HOWEVER

>

> Which is a " blog " also done by a non medical individual .... and not by a

> professtional in the medical/holitisic/alterantive fields of medicine.

>

> Dusty

[Guest guest]

Sue,

You asked,

> Why is it an advantage that too much t3 goes away in a hurry?

If you overdose on T4, it could take a week or more before you get back

to the euthyroid range. During that week, you are exposed to the hazards

of hyperT. With T3, the same change takes about a day. If you over do

it, it does not take long to correct.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Oh ok, gotcha.

I feel that quick elminination is also a downside as people often crash when

it wears off.

Thus, I believe strongly in multi-dosing.

sue

On 8/22/08 9:08 PM, " Chuck B " <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Sue,

>

> You asked,

>

>> > Why is it an advantage that too much t3 goes away in a hurry?

>

> If you overdose on T4, it could take a week or more before you get back

> to the euthyroid range. During that week, you are exposed to the hazards

> of hyperT. With T3, the same change takes about a day. If you over do

> it, it does not take long to correct.

>

> Chuck

[Guest guest]

lmneedham wrote:

>

> But how would one get around that?

>

> If, say, I was to up to 60mcg and took 40 morning and 20 afternoon,

> how would that pan out for a dosage?

Although the blood levels of T3 have a half life of about a day, the

effects do not follow an exponential decay, and they linger after the T3

level drops. I remember many on this list who do not split T3 type

medications, taking it all at once, one time per day, with no noticeable

variation in benefit. If you do notice a late in the day drop off, the

split does not have to be even. The T4 in Armour will also help even

things out, since T4-T3 conversion contributes a relatively steady

supply of T3 on top of what is taken in directly.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

lmneedham wrote:

>

>

>

>

> Perhaps it is worth me asking to trial Armour next visit.

To me, that would depend on your condition. If you were on Cytomel for a

conversion problem, adding T4 might cause more problems than it fixes. I

don't recall the reason for your current prescription. Was it

conversion? Is there adrenal involvement?

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Well, I get my T3 in 5mcg doses so I take 5-10 at a time.

We were talking strictly about straight T3 ­in my case, it¹s Cytomel.

sue

On 8/23/08 3:12 AM, " lmneedham " <lmneedham@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

> But how would one get around that?

>

> If, say, I was to up to 60mcg and took 40 morning and 20 afternoon,

> how would that pan out for a dosage?

>

> Unless I took 60 morning and 60 afternoon how would I receive a

> therapeutic amount to serve my health issues.

[Guest guest]

If t3 is making you feeled drained and depressed then it is most likely your

adrenal glands.

They are shut down and are now being over-taxed by the T3 which has a

stimulating effect of the body and so it¹s exhausting your reserves.

Why are you on just T3? I don¹t know your history, sorry, but it does seem

like you are putting your body into overdrive when it has nothing left to go

on.

Anti-depressants may make you care less about it but they won¹t fix it.

sue

On 8/23/08 12:52 PM, " lmneedham " <lmneedham@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

> No idea about the adrenals. Never get mentioned over here. Just that

> thyroxine made me feel worse than rotten.

>

> Finally found a private consultant and he put me in t3 then 2nd visit

> said to raise 10mcg every three weeks to 50mcg and come back in Sept.

>

> Immediately had consistent depression (as opposed to varying depth of

> frequent but not perpetual depression on thyroxine) which I worked out

> became relieved to some extent by HRT (half a smallest dose tablet

> each night) plus I added a couple of kelp tablets which seemed to make

> me a little more clear headed the next day after the HRT artificially

> calmed my brain, but could be coincidence).

>

> Now as I go up the doses (am 50mcg)I feel more and more depleted,

> tired, and generally depressed and aching. I understand that some

> measure of detoxing could be going on and I used to have back ache and

> feet ache before I plummeted into thyroid disease, so perhaps layers

> of this thing are being peeled back and I am regressing to older

> problems as my thyroid stuff is repairing....who knows.

>

> The pharmacist, this evening, suggested I get anti-depressants and cb

> therapy, but frankly how would I know my thyroid stuff was getting

> better if the depressive element is purposefully being suppressed?

[Guest guest]

lmneedham wrote:

>

>

>

>

> No idea about the adrenals. Never get mentioned over here. Just that

> thyroxine made me feel worse than rotten....

How much levothyroxine?

Chuck

[Guest guest]

well the MDs are KILLING the ppl at my group home--oh maybe they are the

dummies in MD school. a Harvard medical professor wrote an interesting book

about trying to get a Dx for himself and finallly only one doc gave him the

correct Dx and treatment. what was that book called?

Gracia

You can find any number of people to tell you they're either smarter or

more educated than someone who graduated from college. But a doctor

didn't just graduate from college with a BA, she/he has a PhD. And that

PhD is in the " hard " sciences; not the simplistic humanities or

similar. In most cases it's impossible to not flunk out of medical

school unless you're fairly bright.

And it's quite possible for someone with no formal education to be

" smarter " than someone with a PhD. But it's still very likely that the

person with the hard science PhD will have TONS more knowledge than the

average person with no degree. Not to negate that there are exceptions.

Incidentally, my highest degree was high school...

>

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[Guest guest]

this is what works:

iodine/iodide 50--100mg

Armour ENOUGH 180--300mg

cortef 5mg 4X a day

Gracia

I'm on just T3, now up to 50mcg per day, and don't think I can feel

much worse.

Day goes by in a fog of ache and drowsiness and feeling ill.

Stomach constantly aches, intestines ache, back and legs are stiff and

ache when I move from sitting to standing and bending. Back aches when

I wake up. Feet are killing me when I go out so I can't wait to get

back home and sit down.

I feel like an 80-year-old.

Notice a change in my eyes for the first time, on some recent photos.

Thought medication was supposed to prevent/stop/reverse this.

Seems as though nothing I do will ever make a bean of difference to

feeling unutterably CRAP.

What is the point of even bothering with medication? Can't be that

much worse to experience the whole body shutting down.

And at least that has an end-to-it date.

WHO gives a shit, no one paid for professional services that for

certain. WHY is that? Where is professional honour? I look after my

customers, when I can scrape an hour to perform my work. I have the

brain to check and really check that everything is as it should be and

highly satisfactory to those paying me. What is different with

certificated services?

Even the doctor I am now personally paying is asking ME what I think I

should be medicated with. Did I want to be treated on T3 alone or did

I think I wanted Armour. HOW THE FUCK DO I KNOW. IF I KNEW I WOULD PAY

MYSELF TO TREAT ME.

Apparently I am an enigma. I guess that's shorthand for 'You ain't

ever going to get well on my watch'.

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[Guest guest]

Well, YES,

AND, when a physician WANTS to increase his standing, the DEGREE which he

seeks IS the Phd, indicating that the PhD is a higher degree than merely

being a physician.

The major difference, of course, is that we PhD's have " proved " that we can

DO " credible research. "

drdan4health.com

On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 8:43 PM, Nancie Barnett <

deifspirit@...> wrote:

> -

> Actually physicians don't get PhD's on a regular basis. Most physicians

> graduate with a degree in medicine. That is after 4 years of college and

> then 4 more years of medical school. In order to get a PhD, one has to

> complete extra course work and perform a oral and written dissertation

> along

> with the regular medical school requirements.

>

> -- RE: I love Armour Thyroid - HOWEVER

> >

> > Which is a " blog " also done by a non medical individual .... and not by a

>

> > professtional in the medical/holitisic/alterantive fields of medicine.

> >

> > Dusty

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

this " conversion " thing is annoying me - ppl just feel better on Armour.

Gracia

lmneedham wrote:

>

>

>

>

> Perhaps it is worth me asking to trial Armour next visit.

To me, that would depend on your condition. If you were on Cytomel for a

conversion problem, adding T4 might cause more problems than it fixes. I

don't recall the reason for your current prescription. Was it

conversion? Is there adrenal involvement?

Chuck

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[Guest guest]

The ones I know did it while they were still in medical school. It is called

a joint MD-PhD program.

-- RE: I love Armour Thyroid - HOWEVER

> >

> > Which is a " blog " also done by a non medical individual .... and not by

a

>

> > professtional in the medical/holitisic/alterantive fields of medicine.

> >

> > Dusty

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

NO they don¹t.

I feel like CRAP on Armour‹any amount of it.

It¹s pig thryoid hromone and the ratio of t4 to t3 is way too high and

unnatrual for most humans.

sue

On 8/23/08 8:23 PM, " Gracia " <circe@...> wrote:

>

>

> this " conversion " thing is annoying me - ppl just feel better on Armour.

> Gracia

>

> lmneedham wrote:

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > Perhaps it is worth me asking to trial Armour next visit.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sue,

Wondering if you have tried any other brand of dissected thyroid like

Thyroid-S, Westhyroid, etc. Could it be the binder within Armour that

you are having a reaction to???

Neil

eastodurango@... wrote:

>

> NO they don¹t.

> I feel like CRAP on Armour‹any amount of it.

> It¹s pig thryoid hromone and the ratio of t4 to t3 is way too high and

> unnatrual for most humans.

> sue

>

> On 8/23/08 8:23 PM, " Gracia " <circe@...

> <mailto:circe%40fairpoint.net>> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > this " conversion " thing is annoying me - ppl just feel better on

> Armour.

> > Gracia

> >

> > lmneedham wrote:

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Perhaps it is worth me asking to trial Armour next visit.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

but we discussed this and why you felt like crap!!! those probs still

remain. if you don't address them. (wrong dose, adrenal)

Gracia

NO they don¹t.

I feel like CRAP on Armour<any amount of it.

It¹s pig thryoid hromone and the ratio of t4 to t3 is way too high and

unnatrual for most humans.

sue

On 8/23/08 8:23 PM, " Gracia " <circe@...> wrote:

>

>

> this " conversion " thing is annoying me - ppl just feel better on Armour.

> Gracia

>

> lmneedham wrote:

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > Perhaps it is worth me asking to trial Armour next visit.

>

[Guest guest]

That's very true also, if your adrenals are toast they will not react to

the T3 within Armour well.

As Gracia says... " that's why they call it an endocrine SYSTEM " ...you

have to address all the problems.

Neil

Gracia wrote:

>

>

> but we discussed this and why you felt like crap!!! those probs still

> remain. if you don't address them. (wrong dose, adrenal)

> Gracia

>

> NO they don¹t.

> I feel like CRAP on Armour<any amount of it.

> It¹s pig thryoid hromone and the ratio of t4 to t3 is way too high and

> unnatrual for most humans.

> sue

>

> On 8/23/08 8:23 PM, " Gracia " <circe@...

> <mailto:circe%40fairpoint.net>> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > this " conversion " thing is annoying me - ppl just feel better on

> Armour.

> > Gracia

> >

> > lmneedham wrote:

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Perhaps it is worth me asking to trial Armour next visit.

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

No the teaching physicians are not more likely to have PhD's. Most of them

have just MD's. You don't need a Phd to teach at university level in

Medicine. All other departments you do have to have a Phd.

-- Re: I love Armour Thyroid - HOWEVER

My mistake. I guess the teaching doctors at universities are more

likely to have PhD's? In any event, from what I've read the coursework

is grueling indeed.

>

> Re: I love Armour Thyroid - HOWEVER

> <hypothyroidism/message/41214

_ylc=X3oDMTJxZWMyZXN0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEw

DIEbXNnSWQDNDEyMTQEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxOTQ3NTgzMw-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " Nancie Barnett " deifspirit@...

> <mailto:deifspirit@msn

com?Subject=%20Re%3A%20I%20love%20Armour%20Thyroid%20-%20HOWEVER>

> aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1>

>

>

> Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:44 pm (PDT)

>

> -

> Actually physicians don't get PhD's on a regular basis. Most physicians

> graduate with a degree in medicine. That is after 4 years of college and

> then 4 more years of medical school. In order to get a PhD, one has to

> complete extra course work and perform a oral and written dissertation

> along

> with the regular medical school requirements.

[Guest guest]

As long as you keep telling people that they need 180 to 300 I will continue

to say not most people. 180 nearly killed me.

Betty

Re: Re: I love Armour Thyroid - HOWEVER

>

> this is what works:

>

> iodine/iodide 50--100mg

> Armour ENOUGH 180--300mg

> cortef 5mg 4X a day

>

> Gracia

>

>

> I'm on just T3, now up to 50mcg per day, and don't think I can feel

> much worse.

>

> Day goes by in a fog of ache and drowsiness and feeling ill.

>

> Stomach constantly aches, intestines ache, back and legs are stiff and

> ache when I move from sitting to standing and bending. Back aches when

> I wake up. Feet are killing me when I go out so I can't wait to get

> back home and sit down.

>

> I feel like an 80-year-old.

>

> Notice a change in my eyes for the first time, on some recent photos.

> Thought medication was supposed to prevent/stop/reverse this.

>

> Seems as though nothing I do will ever make a bean of difference to

> feeling unutterably CRAP.

>

> What is the point of even bothering with medication? Can't be that

> much worse to experience the whole body shutting down.

>

> And at least that has an end-to-it date.

>

> WHO gives a shit, no one paid for professional services that for

> certain. WHY is that? Where is professional honour? I look after my

> customers, when I can scrape an hour to perform my work. I have the

> brain to check and really check that everything is as it should be and

> highly satisfactory to those paying me. What is different with

> certificated services?

>

> Even the doctor I am now personally paying is asking ME what I think I

> should be medicated with. Did I want to be treated on T3 alone or did

> I think I wanted Armour. HOW THE FUCK DO I KNOW. IF I KNEW I WOULD PAY

> MYSELF TO TREAT ME.

>

> Apparently I am an enigma. I guess that's shorthand for 'You ain't

> ever going to get well on my watch'.

>

>

> Recent Activity

> a.. 14New Members

> Visit Your Group

> Health

> Heartburn or Worse

>

> What symptoms

>

> are most serious?

>

> Meditation and

> Lovingkindness

>

> A Group

>

> to share and learn.

>

>

> Join a program

>

> to help you find

>

> balance in your life.

> .

>

>

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> 1:16 PM

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>

>

[Guest guest]

When will you understand that some people cannot take armour. The higher

the dosage the worse I felt, but at 120 I felt great. You are always saying

that you need to take more not less, which is wrong. Some people cannot take

armour and some cannot take high dosages to feel better. You may get your

point across more if you do not come down on people who dissagree with you.

I feel you have the right to recommend what you take, but not to keep

insulting everyone who don't take what you do.

Betty

Re: Re: I love Armour Thyroid - HOWEVER

but we discussed this and why you felt like crap!!! those probs still

remain. if you don't address them. (wrong dose, adrenal)

Gracia

NO they don¹t.

I feel like CRAP on Armour<any amount of it.

It¹s pig thryoid hromone and the ratio of t4 to t3 is way too high and

unnatrual for most humans.

sue

On 8/23/08 8:23 PM, " Gracia " <circe@...> wrote:

>

>

> this " conversion " thing is annoying me - ppl just feel better on

Armour.

> Gracia

>

> lmneedham wrote:

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > Perhaps it is worth me asking to trial Armour next visit.

>

[Guest guest]

lmneedham wrote:

>

> Up to 100mcg.

First this is a fairly low dose for a woman. In my family, all three

hypoT women needed 200 mcg, and they are not large people. This amount

might be adequate for a smaller male. However, you said you had taken 50

mcg of T3, which is equivalent to 200 mcg of T4. Do you think that is a

fair comparison?

Then, you take 100 mcg of T4 in combination with 20 mcg of T3, which is

a total equivalence to 180 mcg. Not surprisingly, this made you hyperT.

You seem to have suffered a " shotgun " approach to dosing. Guess too low;

then guess too high.

The euthyroid state is in a rather narrow dosage window, so one

effective way to use these medications is to carefully titrate the dose.

If you are taking T4 only, the TSH should be below about 2 or, better

yet, you should be measuring FT3. If T3 medication is in the mix, TSH

should be even lower. If your doctor is telling you your blood work is

fine with a TSH higher than this, you need a new doctor, rather than a

psychiatrist.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Gracia,

We also discussed you taking ALL of my medications and supplements at the

doses I do.

When are you going to do that?

Then we can ³talk.²

I don¹t take Armour any longer so I no longer feel like crap ­ I can help

you too!

Sue

On 8/23/08 11:10 PM, " Gracia " <circe@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> but we discussed this and why you felt like crap!!! those probs still

> remain. if you don't address them. (wrong dose, adrenal)

> Gracia

>

> NO they don¹t.

> I feel like CRAP on Armour<any amount of it.

> It¹s pig thryoid hromone and the ratio of t4 to t3 is way too high and

> unnatrual for most humans.

> sue

>