Guest guest Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 I mention RDA because it is a well supported and agreed upon number. Beyond that level AFAIK the credible evidence diminishes. At some point side effects or toxicity effects become more important; again I don't think there's any agreement in the numbers. In addition it seems that we have highly varying individual reactions that may be much more important than any flat number. I would have a great deal of confidence that you could probably determine with a high degree of confidence what level you personally need but I have much less confidence in that ability in most of those who seem to prefer to blindly follow the iodine docs. I'm not saying you shouldn't take megadoses of iodine. I AM saying that you should not recommend that anyone/everyone else follow your example; and indeed you do not suggest that. OTOH if they had your level of intelligence and skill they'd probably for the most part be fine. Luck, .. .. > > Posted by: " Steve " dudescholar4@... > <mailto:dudescholar4@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20No%20No%60s%20for%20Hypo%3\ A> > dudescholar <dudescholar> > > > Sun Oct 4, 2009 1:52 pm (PDT) > > > > , > > The RDA, as I understand it, is the minimum daily amount recommended to > prevent deficiency caused health problems short term. What is optimum > and what amount is needed long term is not a part of the RDA. The > optimum amount is often completely different than the minimum amount. > > Additionally, drugs and chemicals found it the environment today > including foods often deplete certain vitamins and minerals requiring > greater amounts to compensate. For example, metformin, a drug commonly > prescribed for diabetes, uses up or in some way lowers B12 levels. > Statin drugs lower CoQ10 levels. Some of the chemicals in the > environment attach to and/or block say estradiol receptors. I suspect > that there are T3 receptors being block by chemical agents we are > exposed to that otherwise which would not be found in a pristine natural > environment (not that that exists anywhere on earth anymore). > > In other words, I don't think that 150 mcg is anywhere close to an > optimum amount, but one can be certain that at least that much is > required for some degree of health, but what is optimum is a whole > 'nother story. > > Steve > > wrote: > > It is well established that patients who do not receive the RDA of > > iodine can benefit from taking up to that quantity. That happens to be > > MOL 150 mcg/day. The iodine quacks often recommend 50,000 to 100,000 > > mcg/day. There is ample credible support for the ill effects of such > > quantities at least in some people; and no credible evidence to support > > that such a quantity is needed. No where in the history of humanity has > > that level of iodine been available in the environment. > > > > In the US it is rare for anyone to not receive the RDA without taking a > > supplement. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 I agree. The one size fits all theory whether in allopathic or naturopathic medicine has always seemed to me very wrong. I think it is important for people to become more proactive about their own illnesses and treatments, not letting any doctors simple give them pills without researching what those pills do, and cross check with other illnesses they have that might be impacted by the new pills. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > It is well established that patients who do not receive the RDA of > > iodine can benefit from taking up to that quantity. That happens to be > > MOL 150 mcg/day. The iodine quacks often recommend 50,000 to 100,000 > > mcg/day. There is ample credible support for the ill effects of such > > quantities at least in some people; and no credible evidence to support > > that such a quantity is needed. No where in the history of humanity has > > that level of iodine been available in the environment. > > > > In the US it is rare for anyone to not receive the RDA without taking a > > supplement. > > > > ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 >...that such a quantity is needed. No where in the history of humanity has that level of iodine been available in the environment. How do you know that ...can you supply credible research that supports your argument, please? Trish ------------------------------------------------------------------ A PS to EVERYONE who doesn't trim their posts ...please would you, not doing so can make reading the digest a pain in the neck sometimes > > It is well established that patients who do not receive the RDA of > iodine can benefit from taking up to that quantity. That happens to be > MOL 150 mcg/day. The iodine quacks often recommend 50,000 to 100,000 > mcg/day. There is ample credible support for the ill effects of such > quantities at least in some people; and no credible evidence to support > that such a quantity is needed. No where in the history of humanity has > that level of iodine been available in the environment. > > In the US it is rare for anyone to not receive the RDA without taking a > supplement. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 hi gina: do think i must ask my dr to do iodine test for me and can you suggest somethin for stopping hair loss . i have been under statin rx for cholesterol but i have aggressive hair loss and my dr suggest stoping med for one month to see how it works but i still have the problm and on the other hand i can't ignore cholesterol level for ever . thanks and i hope you don't mind if i add you to my contacts. > > > > > > How do we know if we still have thyroid function? Stop all meds and be > > tested? > > Do you need a full replacement dose of the hormone to keep your TSH > below 2? If not, you have at least some thyroid function left. > > Chuck > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Can you supply credible argument that supports your idea? Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: Trish <fielddot@...> Subject: Re: No No`s for Hypo: hypothyroidism Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 12:28 AM >...that such a quantity is needed. No where in the history of humanity has that level of iodine been available in the environment. How do you know that ...can you supply credible research that supports your argument, please? Trish ------------------------------------------------------------------ A PS to EVERYONE who doesn't trim their posts ...please would you, not doing so can make reading the digest a pain in the neck sometimes   > > It is well established that patients who do not receive the RDA of > iodine can benefit from taking up to that quantity. That happens to be > MOL 150 mcg/day. The iodine quacks often recommend 50,000 to 100,000 > mcg/day. There is ample credible support for the ill effects of such > quantities at least in some people; and no credible evidence to support > that such a quantity is needed. No where in the history of humanity has > that level of iodine been available in the environment. > > In the US it is rare for anyone to not receive the RDA without taking a > supplement. > > ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 That was one of the reasons I so frequently butted heads with Gracia. She always issued a blanket " prescription " to just about everybody who posted to this list that they should start 50 or 100 mg of iodine immediately [among other things]. And she consistently denied knowing of anyone being harmed by taking excess iodine even after having several examples presented to her. .. .. > > Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@... > <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20No%20No%60s%20for%20Hypo%3A> > matchermaam <matchermaam> > > > Sun Oct 4, 2009 7:41 pm (PDT) > > > > I agree. The one size fits all theory whether in allopathic or > naturopathic medicine has > always seemed to me very wrong. I think it is important for people to > become more > proactive about their own illnesses and treatments, not letting any > doctors simple give > them pills without researching what those pills do, and cross check > with other illnesses > they have that might be impacted by the new pills. > > Roni > <>Just because something > isn't seen doesn't mean it's > not there<> > > > > From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> > Subject: Re: No No`s for Hypo: > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > Date: Sunday, October 4, 2009, 7:24 PM > > I mention RDA because it is a well supported and agreed upon number. > Beyond that level AFAIK the credible evidence diminishes. At some point > side effects or toxicity effects become more important; again I don't > think there's any agreement in the numbers. In addition it seems that > we have highly varying individual reactions that may be much more > important than any flat number. > > I would have a great deal of confidence that you could probably > determine with a high degree of confidence what level you personally > need but I have much less confidence in that ability in most of those > who seem to prefer to blindly follow the iodine docs. I'm not saying > you shouldn't take megadoses of iodine. I AM saying that you should not > recommend that anyone/everyone else follow your example; and indeed you > do not suggest that. OTOH if they had your level of intelligence and > skill they'd probably for the most part be fine. > > Luck, > > . > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 The many studies of iodine in the environment and available for human consumption vary from the " prescriptions " of the iodine docs by orders of magnitude. If you can show me even one study that suggests and environmental iodine availability of even 10,000 RDA I will reconsider. The maximum levels ever found in human food are much lower. OTOH if you can eat several tons of kelp per day perhaps you are right. Otherwise all of the research that addresses the subject supports my posit. Technically you/I cannot prove any physical fact to certainty. .. .. > > Posted by: " Trish " fielddot@... > <mailto:fielddot@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20No%20No%60s%20for%20Hypo%3A> > trishruk <trishruk> > > > Mon Oct 5, 2009 12:29 am (PDT) > > > > > > >...that such a quantity is needed. No where in the history of > humanity has that level of iodine been available in the environment. > > How do you know that ...can you supply credible research that > supports your argument, please? > > Trish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 We are getting into things that I don't know if this group supports! Forgive me if this is out of line. These are my opinions based on what I've read/learned and the way I understand it. No medical advice here! :-) From what I have read and studied, high cholesterol is from having low thyroid (as hair loss can be as well). When you get thryoid straightened out, cholesterol comes down. Why this makes sense is because cholesterol is used to make cortisol (among other steroid hormones). Cortisol is necessary to get thyroid into the cells. When thyroid is low, cholesterol goes up in order to compensate. It's a very complicated process, but that's the basic understanding that I have. I personally feel there are better ways to deal with things like high cholesterol. When those things happen, it's your body's way of saying 'Hey! I'm out of balance here!' Something is causing it, and as I said from what I read in the case of high cholesterol, it's low thyroid. (The low thyroid can be from resistance or gland not making enough among other things.) Broda , MD's book 'Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Illness' and Mark Starr, MD's book 'Hypothyroidism Type II' go into more detail about the cholesterol/thyroid link. I think a Free T3 and a Reverse T3, along with saliva cortisol (or at least an AM and PM serum cortisol) would be a better indication of thyroid/adrenal status. An iodine test is great too, but it doesn't tell you if you are making thyroid hormones with it or using the thyroid hormones made. I think knowing your iodine level is a good thing, but it may not be the best thing to know in order to deal with your symptoms. Sounds to me like you may have thyroid resistance (high Reverse T3). I don't know if that is an ok subject on this group. I want to stay within my boundaries and not cause problems! Other than replacing thyroid hormones, a lot of your basic vitamins/minerals will help support thyroid and adrenal hormones. Vit C, B-complex, magnesium, Vit D, Redmond's Real Salt, etc. We probably need more than is typically recommended, but each person has to find their own optimal level to take. I don't mind at all if you add me to your contacts! I only want to help. I can give you all the info I have so you can read and make your own health decisions. I only want people to be as informed as they can be! _____ From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ] On Behalf Of Shams Salah Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 2:51 AM hypothyroidism Subject: RE: No No`s for Hypo: hi gina: do think i must ask my dr to do iodine test for me and can you suggest somethin for stopping hair loss . i have been under statin rx for cholesterol but i have aggressive hair loss and my dr suggest stoping med for one month to see how it works but i still have the problm and on the other hand i can't ignore cholesterol level for ever . thanks and i hope you don't mind if i add you to my contacts. > > > > > > How do we know if we still have thyroid function? Stop all meds and be > > tested? > > Do you need a full replacement dose of the hormone to keep your TSH > below 2? If not, you have at least some thyroid function left. > > Chuck > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 The chances are that if you are taking synthroid or levoxyl one of them is responsible for your hair loss, as well as not having your thyroid at the proper level. You need testing for Free T3 and Free T4 and RT3 to see what is going on. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > > > > > How do we know if we still have thyroid function? Stop all meds and be > > tested? > > Do you need a full replacement dose of the hormone to keep your TSH > below 2? If not, you have at least some thyroid function left. > > Chuck > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 > Technically you/I cannot prove any physical fact to certainty. Exactly ...most of what we have to go on has to rely on " supposed " authorities and/or anectdotal evidence and so very often both kinds of sources are " tainted " by various factors. I don't take iodine by the way ...I have Hashimoto's and would like to take it if it would help, but not without the support and guidance of a " professional " . Currently (for me) there is too much conflicting information regarding its use with autoimmune thyroiditis however there are people in the iodine group (with Hashi) who are doing well on doses of 50mg (or higher). If I can find a traditional remedy for something that would always be my preference over modern allopathic options. Trish > > The many studies of iodine in the environment and available for human > consumption vary from the " prescriptions " of the iodine docs by orders > of magnitude. If you can show me even one study that suggests and > environmental iodine availability of even 10,000 RDA I will reconsider. > The maximum levels ever found in human food are much lower. OTOH if you > can eat several tons of kelp per day perhaps you are right. Otherwise > all of the research that addresses the subject supports my posit. > > Technically you/I cannot prove any physical fact to certainty. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 hi gina: you are right in most of the information but the real problem that i found no real difference between high or low or even normal tsh .in the past i only sufferred from losing hair so i went to dermatology and i did many lab tests then i discovered the real problem . i was pregnant and i did only take vitamu\ins and eltroxin for hypothyrodism and i losed hair quickly . this changed after having my child and the tsh sometimes goes high and soe\metimes low and never comes to normal . i did test before one month and i recieved the happy news " it's normal " but the cholesterol is not . i did have statin for high cholesterol and i did aggressive diet but it only becomes 125 mg and it's high but my hair loss worse and because of that i stopped statins and i know -as my dr said - the cholesterol level will be high now even without lab test . i saked my dr if doing diet will make any change and she assured me it will not according to her own experience . i'd like to know if there is any other med i can use and keep my hair and if there is any new research in hypothyrodism i like to know . thanks > > > > > > How do we know if we still have thyroid function? Stop all meds and be > > tested? > > Do you need a full replacement dose of the hormone to keep your TSH > below 2? If not, you have at least some thyroid function left. > > Chuck > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Well, the TSH doesn't tell you anything about your thyroid status. It's a pituitary hormone that tells the thyroid to make it's hormones and doesn't tell you anything about if the thyroid is actually making the hormones or if T4 is being converted to the useable form of T3. That is why you find no real difference in your TSH being high or low. Here are some articles that support this. http://www.hormoneandlongevitycenter.com/thyroidtreatments1/. You have to do a Free T3 and a Reverse T3 to really figure out if your thyroid is producing the right amount of hormones and it's being converted properly and not being blocked. Are you still having a lot of other hypothyroid symptoms? You are losing hair and have high cholesterol which are two biggies. Are you tired, depressed, have brain fog, are you cold all the time, have body aches, weight gain, etc.? Have you checked your adrenal status? You should read the Mark Starr, MD book I suggested (Hypothyroidism Type II). It will explain thyroid resistance in the cells. Getting a couple of extra labs (Reverse T3, Free T3 and an AM and PM cortisol) may give you the information you need. [[i'm not a doctor, so I'm certainly not giving medical advice here!]] _____ From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ] On Behalf Of Shams Salah Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 1:49 AM hypothyroidism Subject: RE: No No`s for Hypo: hi gina: you are right in most of the information but the real problem that i found no real difference between high or low or even normal tsh .in the past i only sufferred from losing hair so i went to dermatology and i did many lab tests then i discovered the real problem . i was pregnant and i did only take vitamu\ins and eltroxin for hypothyrodism and i losed hair quickly .. this changed after having my child and the tsh sometimes goes high and soe\metimes low and never comes to normal . i did test before one month and i recieved the happy news " it's normal " but the cholesterol is not . i did have statin for high cholesterol and i did aggressive diet but it only becomes 125 mg and it's high but my hair loss worse and because of that i stopped statins and i know -as my dr said - the cholesterol level will be high now even without lab test . i saked my dr if doing diet will make any change and she assured me it will not according to her own experience .. i'd like to know if there is any other med i can use and keep my hair and if there is any new research in hypothyrodism i like to know . thanks > > > > > > How do we know if we still have thyroid function? Stop all meds and be > > tested? > > Do you need a full replacement dose of the hormone to keep your TSH > below 2? If not, you have at least some thyroid function left. > > Chuck > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 I don't recall if you have Hashimoto's but if you do the output of your thyroid can vary all over the place so your levels can go up and down. This makes treatment very difficult; trying to hit a moving target so to speak. I'm not that knowledgeable about hair loss and so on. Luck, .. .. > > Posted by: " Shams Salah " sshams93@... > <mailto:sshams93@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20No%20No%60s%20for%20Hypo%3A> > sshams93 <sshams93> > > > Tue Oct 6, 2009 1:48 am (PDT) > > > > hi gina: you are right in most of the information but the real problem > that i found no real difference between high or low or even normal tsh > .in the past i only sufferred from losing hair so i went to > dermatology and i did many lab tests then i discovered the real > problem . i was pregnant and i did only take vitamu\ins and eltroxin > for hypothyrodism and i losed hair quickly . this changed after > having my child and the tsh sometimes goes high and soe\metimes low > and never comes to normal . i did test before one month and i recieved > the happy news " it's normal " but the cholesterol is not . i did have > statin for high cholesterol and i did aggressive diet but it only > becomes 125 mg and it's high but my hair loss worse and because of > that i stopped statins and i know -as my dr said - the cholesterol > level will be high now even without lab test . i saked my dr if doing > diet will make any change and she assured me it will not according to > her own experience > . i'd like to know if there is any other med i can use and keep my > hair and if there is any new research in hypothyrodism i like to know > . thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.