Re: no more iodine for me

[Guest guest]

It is doubtful that your doctor will agree to do it, but I suppose if

you can provide your doctor with a well reasoned discussion of why you

think you are iodine deficient, you may be able to convince him/her.

If not, you can get it done through here:

http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/iprotocol.html

Regardless, you need to read the page I've just posted, and read the

page to Iodine Loading Test, just below where it says:

* 24 Hour Iodine Loading Test Now Essential

They tell you nobody should ever start an iodine supplement program

w/o first having an iodine loading test...and that iodine loading test

carries risks of its own to a very very small number of people. That

risk can include ultimately ending up worse than a person was to begin

with and possibly even anyphylactic shock. Anyone considering this

option needs to be fully informed of the dangers so they can make a

decision whether the risks outweigh the potential benefits in their

own particular case. Ideally, the loading test would be done under a

doctor's care, but unfortunately, most doctors will not have anything

to do with this testing (or iodine in general). Breast Cancer Choices

does (or the Iodine Research Project) does provide a list of doctors

who are actively involved in this research and will work with patients

interested in this supplementation, if you are fortunate enough to

live where you have access to one of them.

hth,

>

> no. I did see mention of it on one of the sites. Is it something you

have

> done through your doctor or do yourself?

>

>

> In a message dated 12/5/2008 7:39:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> cindy.seeley@... writes:

>

> Hi ,

>

> Throughout this entire discussion, I've seen no mention of a 'load

> test' prior to your beginning iodine treatment...did you have one?

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Gracia,

If people don't at least 'try' to talk to their doctors, even if the

doctor refuses and they end up deciding to 'inform' their doctor that

they will be having this test done regardless...yes, it may cost them

their doctor...doctors will never become informed! It has taken years

of people talking to their doctors 'first', about their thyroid

conditions and alternatives to what modern medicine is teaching

doctors in college, for modern day doctors to even begin to recognize

and accept the improvement resulting from those 'alternatives'. I

think it'd be a lot easier to tell a doctor 'I did this' after the

fact, IF they had first talked to their doctor about wanting to do it

in the first place, with or without their doctor's support.

IMNSHO, Gracia, YOU were lucky that YOU reacted well to this therapy

w/o following the what Dr. Abraham, Dr. Brownstein, et al, all say

*Must be Done PRIOR to beginning this therapy*.

>

>

> do it yourself--your doc doesn't know about it.

> http://www.naturalthyroidchoices.com

> Gracia

>

> no. I did see mention of it on one of the sites. Is it something

you have

> done through your doctor or do yourself?

>

>

> In a message dated 12/5/2008 7:39:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> cindy.seeley@... writes:

>

> Hi ,

>

> Throughout this entire discussion, I've seen no mention of a 'load

> test' prior to your beginning iodine treatment...did you have one?

>

>

[Guest guest]

in alll the time I have been on iodine group I have never heard of a reaction

to the test.

Gracia

It is doubtful that your doctor will agree to do it, but I suppose if

you can provide your doctor with a well reasoned discussion of why you

think you are iodine deficient, you may be able to convince him/her.

If not, you can get it done through here:

http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/iprotocol.html

Regardless, you need to read the page I've just posted, and read the

page to Iodine Loading Test, just below where it says:

* 24 Hour Iodine Loading Test Now Essential

They tell you nobody should ever start an iodine supplement program

w/o first having an iodine loading test...and that iodine loading test

carries risks of its own to a very very small number of people. That

risk can include ultimately ending up worse than a person was to begin

with and possibly even anyphylactic shock. Anyone considering this

option needs to be fully informed of the dangers so they can make a

decision whether the risks outweigh the potential benefits in their

own particular case. Ideally, the loading test would be done under a

doctor's care, but unfortunately, most doctors will not have anything

to do with this testing (or iodine in general). Breast Cancer Choices

does (or the Iodine Research Project) does provide a list of doctors

who are actively involved in this research and will work with patients

interested in this supplementation, if you are fortunate enough to

live where you have access to one of them.

hth,

---

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7:08 PM

[Guest guest]

That very well may be, but it doesn't change the " fact " that a very

slight number of patients do react...and that reaction can be deadly!

>

>

> in alll the time I have been on iodine group I have never heard of

a reaction to the test.

> Gracia

[Guest guest]

You're welcome! ...and I agree...I believe Gracia means well and wants

all of us to have as much success as she has in our recoveries.

Unfortunately, we all live in different bodies and have different

deficiencies and each of us has to identify what they happen to be, so

we can recover our lives.

>

> Thanks for the information. I do wonder if I was having a bad

reaction

> to the iodine that most people wouldn't. I know others had it too.

Maybe we

> have something that's causing it and Gracia doesn't get that same

reaction. I

> know how it is to believe in something so strongly because it worked

so

> great for you...

[Guest guest]

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> ... I am a 60yo woman who is 5 ' 2 " tall and takes 100mg Iodoral daily.

That means your kidneys must process 100 mg of iodine per day.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

I saw a lot of reports about the same for the iodine skin patch test,

which even your hero Dr. Brownstein admitted " ...is not sufficiently

accurate... " . BTW, YOU posted the article where he not only admitted

the above, but also advised AGAINST using the urine iodine loading

test. Same article.

If the person already knows they have an iodine deficiency problem and

how much then they don't need the test. And if they don't know already

then the results can't correlate with data that they don't have.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Gracia " circe@...

>

<mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20no%20more%20iodine%20for%20me>

> graciabee <graciabee>

>

>

> Sat Dec 6, 2008 8:04 am (PST)

>

>

> the " credibility " of the urine loading test is supported by the ppl

> who have done it. the results correlate with person's iodine

> deficiency or problems absorbing iodine/iodide.

> i never did the test b/c i am sick of tests.

> gracia

>

> There is no credible research of which I'm aware that supports the

> validity of either the skin patch test or the urine loading test. The

> skin patch test is totally bogus and the premise upon which the urine

> loading test is based is AFAIK totally unsupported. For years

> [decades?] the " iodine docs " and their proponents supported this

> foolishness, most likely because [in the case of the iodine docs]

> everyone fails the tests. And one of the iodine docs conveniently owns

> a company that makes and sells iodine products.

>

> But in an article recently posted by Gracia Dr. Brownstein admitted

> that the iodine skin patch test " is not sufficiently accurate " [a vast

> understatement; it's totally bogus], and further recommended against

> using the iodine urine loading test.

>

> If you ever find any credible research that supports the effacy of the

> iodine urine loading test I'd appreciate a link.

>

> Thanks,

>

[Guest guest]

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> in alll the time I have been on iodine group I have never heard of a

> reaction to the test.

Makes sense to me. People that die from the well documented

anaphylactoid reaction are not going to post much to your iodine group.

has told you repeatedly that SHE has had that reaction. For some

reason, you don't seem to be able to remember that example. Is that your

withdrawal symptoms again?

Chuck

[Guest guest]

ewww aren't we a bit snotty--is that your low FT3 level again?

I do not believe is allergic to iodine although she may be. I do not

know what she was given at what dose. why would a doc have someone sit in

their office and give them iodine? ppl who have reactions to low dose iodine

will do just fine on higher doses of iodine/iodide. I have some info on this

somewhere here--my coworker borrowed my iodine book.

gracia

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> in alll the time I have been on iodine group I have never heard of a

> reaction to the test.

Makes sense to me. People that die from the well documented

anaphylactoid reaction are not going to post much to your iodine group.

has told you repeatedly that SHE has had that reaction. For some

reason, you don't seem to be able to remember that example. Is that your

withdrawal symptoms again?

Chuck

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7:08 PM

[Guest guest]

yikes.

this is what I am talking about. using kelp tablets is not taking iodine.

Iodoral is 12.5mg per tablet (I take 8 per day, my dogs take 6.25mg).

it's great that we are all different but we still need accurate information.

You're welcome! ...and I agree...I believe Gracia means well and wants

all of us to have as much success as she has in our recoveries.

Unfortunately, we all live in different bodies and have different

deficiencies and each of us has to identify what they happen to be, so

we can recover our lives.

>

> Thanks for the information. I do wonder if I was having a bad

reaction

> to the iodine that most people wouldn't. I know others had it too.

Maybe we

> have something that's causing it and Gracia doesn't get that same

reaction. I

> know how it is to believe in something so strongly because it worked

so

> great for you...

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7:08 PM

[Guest guest]

Gracia,

YOU DON'T have accurate information on how much iodine needs.

Getting something out of balances is going to screw other things either

short term or long term.

steve

Gracia wrote:

> yikes.

> this is what I am talking about. using kelp tablets is not taking iodine.

> Iodoral is 12.5mg per tablet (I take 8 per day, my dogs take 6.25mg).

> it's great that we are all different but we still need accurate information.

>

>

> You're welcome! ...and I agree...I believe Gracia means well and wants

> all of us to have as much success as she has in our recoveries.

> Unfortunately, we all live in different bodies and have different

> deficiencies and each of us has to identify what they happen to be, so

> we can recover our lives.

>

>

>

> >

> > Thanks for the information. I do wonder if I was having a bad

> reaction

> > to the iodine that most people wouldn't. I know others had it too.

> Maybe we

> > have something that's causing it and Gracia doesn't get that same

> reaction. I

> > know how it is to believe in something so strongly because it worked

> so

> > great for you...

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

Gracia,

When someone tells you that they are allergic to peanuts, do you tell

them they are wrong, you've never met anyone who was allergic to peanuts

and instruct them that people eat peanuts all the time, and then offer

them a bag of peanuts and instruct them to eat several ounces a day?

Then, when they have a reaction to peanuts (heaven forbid they listen to

you), you will assert that the problems was not the peanuts but

something else.

It's time you stopped calling people liars when their PERSONAL

EXPERIENCES is different than yours, however subjective it might be.

Have you tried 2000 mg/day of iodine yet?

Steve

Gracia wrote:

> ewww aren't we a bit snotty--is that your low FT3 level again?

> I do not believe is allergic to iodine although she may be. I do

not know what she was given at what dose. why would a doc have someone sit in

their office and give them iodine? ppl who have reactions to low dose iodine

will do just fine on higher doses of iodine/iodide. I have some info on this

somewhere here--my coworker borrowed my iodine book.

> gracia

> Gracia,

>

> You wrote:

> >

> > in alll the time I have been on iodine group I have never heard of a

> > reaction to the test.

>

> Makes sense to me. People that die from the well documented

> anaphylactoid reaction are not going to post much to your iodine group.

>

> has told you repeatedly that SHE has had that reaction. For some

> reason, you don't seem to be able to remember that example. Is that your

> withdrawal symptoms again?

>

> Chuck

>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

hi

I am not shy about talking to docs! I quite agree that as patients we need to

communicate/advocate for ourselves, and I also do it for the MR ppl I work with.

BTW I have had some great docs http://www.brodabarnes.org

I don't think I was " lucky " w/ iodine. I took 50mg Iodoral for 2 years but I

should have been taking 100mg plus ATP cofactors. the loading test will show

if there is an NIS defect. that is why the test is recommended.

gracia

Gracia,

If people don't at least 'try' to talk to their doctors, even if the

doctor refuses and they end up deciding to 'inform' their doctor that

they will be having this test done regardless...yes, it may cost them

their doctor...doctors will never become informed! It has taken years

of people talking to their doctors 'first', about their thyroid

conditions and alternatives to what modern medicine is teaching

doctors in college, for modern day doctors to even begin to recognize

and accept the improvement resulting from those 'alternatives'. I

think it'd be a lot easier to tell a doctor 'I did this' after the

fact, IF they had first talked to their doctor about wanting to do it

in the first place, with or without their doctor's support.

IMNSHO, Gracia, YOU were lucky that YOU reacted well to this therapy

w/o following the what Dr. Abraham, Dr. Brownstein, et al, all say

*Must be Done PRIOR to beginning this therapy*.

>

>

> do it yourself--your doc doesn't know about it.

> http://www.naturalthyroidchoices.com

> Gracia

>

>

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7:08 PM

[Guest guest]

iodine is required for life. there is info in Brownstein's book about how to

deal with ppl who have a reation to iodized salt

gracia

That very well may be, but it doesn't change the " fact " that a very

slight number of patients do react...and that reaction can be deadly!

>

>

> in alll the time I have been on iodine group I have never heard of

a reaction to the test.

> Gracia

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7:08 PM

[Guest guest]

Gracia, you wrote " iodine is required for life " in order to assert that

was wrong that she has negative reactions from overdose. Your

reasoning is false, completely. Vitamin A is needed for life but

overdosing is bad; overdosing on B6 will produced neuropathy.

Overdosing on Potassium will produce death. Overdosing on other

minerals comes with serious health consequences. For some people, that

level is different than others.

You cannot honestly claim that you've never heard of a negative reaction

to iodine since on the list it has been reported several times. This

failure to grasp even the most essential of facts leads one to question

your capacity to reason.

Gracia wrote:

> iodine is required for life. there is info in Brownstein's book about how

to deal with ppl who have a reation to iodized salt

> gracia

>

> That very well may be, but it doesn't change the " fact " that a very

> slight number of patients do react...and that reaction can be deadly!

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > in alll the time I have been on iodine group I have never heard of

> a reaction to the test.

> > Gracia

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

Gracia, I sometimes wonder if you even bother to read what you write.

Go to <http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-01/IOD_01.htm> and look at

Table Two. It shows that iodism [ Poisoning by iodine, characterized by

severe coryza, an acneform eruption, weakness, salivation, and foul

breath.] increases directly with increases of dosage. You _do_ believe

the iodine docs, don't you???

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Gracia " circe@...

>

<mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20no%20more%20iodine%20for%20me>

> graciabee <graciabee>

>

>

> Sat Dec 6, 2008 8:57 pm (PST)

>

>

> ewww aren't we a bit snotty--is that your low FT3 level again?

> I do not believe is allergic to iodine although she may be. I do

> not know what she was given at what dose. why would a doc have someone

> sit in their office and give them iodine? ppl who have reactions to

> low dose iodine will do just fine on higher doses of iodine/iodide. I

> have some info on this somewhere here--my coworker borrowed my iodine

> book.

> gracia

> Gracia,

>

> You wrote:

> >

> > in alll the time I have been on iodine group I have never heard of a

> > reaction to the test.

>

> Makes sense to me. People that die from the well documented

> anaphylactoid reaction are not going to post much to your iodine group.

>

> has told you repeatedly that SHE has had that reaction. For some

> reason, you don't seem to be able to remember that example. Is that your

> withdrawal symptoms again?

>

> Chuck

[Guest guest]

First I wrote the next paragraph, and then I realized you point: To you

someone isn't " taking iodine " unless they're taking hundreds or

thousands of times the RDA. So never mind. I see you're speaking

Iodine and I'm speaking English! [ggg]

Fer chrissakes, Gracia! Using kelp tablets IS taking iodine. It is

repeatedly referenced on your favorite site http://www.optimox.com/. Do

I need to point out a few dozen specific paragraphs to you??? How is

posting something so patently WRONG providing accurate information???

There's about a zillion places you can buy kelp tablets with .15mg

iodine [the RDA].

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Gracia " circe@...

>

<mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20no%20more%20iodine%20for%20me>

> graciabee <graciabee>

>

>

> Sat Dec 6, 2008 9:22 pm (PST)

>

>

> yikes.

> this is what I am talking about. using kelp tablets is not taking iodine.

> Iodoral is 12.5mg per tablet (I take 8 per day, my dogs take 6.25mg).

> it's great that we are all different but we still need accurate

> information.

>

> You're welcome! ...and I agree...I believe Gracia means well and wants

> all of us to have as much success as she has in our recoveries.

> Unfortunately, we all live in different bodies and have different

> deficiencies and each of us has to identify what they happen to be, so

> we can recover our lives.

>

>

>

> >

> > Thanks for the information. I do wonder if I was having a bad

> reaction

> > to the iodine that most people wouldn't. I know others had it too.

> Maybe we

> > have something that's causing it and Gracia doesn't get that same

> reaction. I

> > know how it is to believe in something so strongly because it worked

> so

> > great for you...

[Guest guest]

yes I do believe the iodine docs. they do not believe in iodism, they believe

the symptoms are bromide detox.

Gracia

Gracia, I sometimes wonder if you even bother to read what you write.

Go to <http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-01/IOD_01.htm> and look at

Table Two. It shows that iodism [ Poisoning by iodine, characterized by

severe coryza, an acneform eruption, weakness, salivation, and foul

breath.] increases directly with increases of dosage. You _do_ believe

the iodine docs, don't you???

.

.

>

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4:56 PM

[Guest guest]

Even the " iodine docs " post test results which show that sometimes over

a third of the test patients do not benefit from the doses of iodine

used in the tests. But Gracia believes _everyone_ should benefit from

large dose iodine. And discounts all evidence to the contrary. One of

the reasons I have a hard time seeing how she values science.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Steve " dudescholar4@...

>

<mailto:dudescholar4@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20no%20more%20iodine%20for%2\

0me>

> dudescholar <dudescholar>

>

>

> Sat Dec 6, 2008 9:43 pm (PST)

>

> Gracia,

>

> YOU DON'T have accurate information on how much iodine needs.

> Getting something out of balances is going to screw other things either

> short term or long term.

>

> steve

>

> Gracia wrote:

> > yikes.

> > this is what I am talking about. using kelp tablets is not taking

> iodine.

> > Iodoral is 12.5mg per tablet (I take 8 per day, my dogs take 6.25mg).

> > it's great that we are all different but we still need accurate

> information.

[Guest guest]

if you are vitamin D deficient, your doc might give you more than the RDA for

a period of time right?

kelp is useless as a source of iodine b/c the amount is too low and it may be

filled with toxins.

I am just talking about how to use iodine/iodide effectively, the way it used

to be used. I know it sounds crazy but why not use it the right way to get

maximum benefit?

Gracia

First I wrote the next paragraph, and then I realized you point: To you

someone isn't " taking iodine " unless they're taking hundreds or

thousands of times the RDA. So never mind. I see you're speaking

Iodine and I'm speaking English! [ggg]

Fer chrissakes, Gracia! Using kelp tablets IS taking iodine. It is

repeatedly referenced on your favorite site http://www.optimox.com/. Do

I need to point out a few dozen specific paragraphs to you??? How is

posting something so patently WRONG providing accurate information???

There's about a zillion places you can buy kelp tablets with .15mg

iodine [the RDA].

.

.

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4:56 PM

[Guest guest]

well we are not reading the same material then. iodine docs are very big on

iodine for everybody. it works. learn more on iodine group.

Gracia

Even the " iodine docs " post test results which show that sometimes over

a third of the test patients do not benefit from the doses of iodine

used in the tests. But Gracia believes _everyone_ should benefit from

large dose iodine. And discounts all evidence to the contrary. One of

the reasons I have a hard time seeing how she values science.

.

.

>

> Posted by: " Steve " dudescholar4@...

>

<mailto:dudescholar4@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20no%20more%20iodine%20for%2\

0me>

> dudescholar <dudescholar>

>

>

> Sat Dec 6, 2008 9:43 pm (PST)

>

> Gracia,

>

> YOU DON'T have accurate information on how much iodine needs.

> Getting something out of balances is going to screw other things either

> short term or long term.

>

> steve

>

> Gracia wrote:

> > yikes.

> > this is what I am talking about. using kelp tablets is not taking

> iodine.

> > Iodoral is 12.5mg per tablet (I take 8 per day, my dogs take 6.25mg).

> > it's great that we are all different but we still need accurate

> information.

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4:56 PM

[Guest guest]

i think my kidneys like it b/c they are working well. i am now going to feed

them some ice cream.

gracia

Gracia,

You wrote:

>

> ... I am a 60yo woman who is 5 ' 2 " tall and takes 100mg Iodoral daily.

That means your kidneys must process 100 mg of iodine per day.

Chuck

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7:08 PM

[Guest guest]

Wouldn't a NIS defect show up early in life without the need to test for

it? Maybe you have a good link with info, as I'm pretty much totally

ignorant about it.

Incidentally, Brownstein recommends _against_ using the urine iodine

loading test in the article you posted here a while back.

Thanks,

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Gracia " circe@...

>

<mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20no%20more%20iodine%20for%20me>

> graciabee <graciabee>

>

>

> Sun Dec 7, 2008 7:06 am (PST)

>

>

> hi

> I am not shy about talking to docs! I quite agree that as patients we

> need to communicate/

> advocate for ourselves, and I also do it for the MR ppl I work with.

> BTW I have had some great docs http://www.brodabarnes.org

> <http://www.brodabarnes.org>

> I don't think I was " lucky " w/ iodine. I took 50mg Iodoral for 2 years

> but I should have been taking 100mg plus ATP cofactors. the loading

> test will show if there is an NIS defect. that is why the test is

> recommended.

> gracia

[Guest guest]

Kelp is as likely to be as full of toxins as is sea salt. It probably

has the same or similar trace minerals.

First, someone has to define " right way " .

Regardless of how crazy it may sound from some other world view at the

very least it should be internally consistent. Your suggestions on how

to use iodine and on its effects are inconsistent with the information

you provide to support those suggestions.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Gracia " circe@...

>

<mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20no%20more%20iodine%20for%20me>

> graciabee <graciabee>

>

>

> Sun Dec 7, 2008 2:02 pm (PST)

>

>

> if you are vitamin D deficient, your doc might give you more than the

> RDA for a period of time right?

> kelp is useless as a source of iodine b/c the amount is too low and it

> may be filled with toxins.

> I am just talking about how to use iodine/iodide effectively, the way

> it used to be used. I know it sounds crazy but why not use it the

> right way to get maximum benefit?

> Gracia

>

> First I wrote the next paragraph, and then I realized you point: To you

> someone isn't " taking iodine " unless they're taking hundreds or

> thousands of times the RDA. So never mind. I see you're speaking

> Iodine and I'm speaking English! [ggg]

[Guest guest]

I can quote you page and paragraph from the link _you_ sent me for

Optimox. Don't believe it? Try me...

..

..

> positive therapeutic effect was observed in 72% of them.

..

..

They achieved clinical improvement in 70% of the patients.

..

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In 588 patients, using iodine caseinate at 10 mg/day for 5 years, only

40% success rate was achieved

..

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74% of the patients had clinical improvements both subjectively

..

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65% showed objective and subjective improvement

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in 33 patients on a placebo, 3% experienced worsening of objective signs

and 35% experienced improvement

..

..

the percent of subjects reporting side effects in Ghent’s studies appear

high ranging from 7% to 10.9%

..

..

Note that these are papers/studies quoted by Abraham/Flechas in support

of their paper; not from studies they performed. Anyway, there's lots of

good information on that site. You should read it sometime! [ggg]

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Gracia " circe@...

>

<mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20no%20more%20iodine%20for%20me>

> graciabee <graciabee>

>

>

> Sun Dec 7, 2008 2:04 pm (PST)

>

>

> well we are not reading the same material then. iodine docs are very

> big on iodine for everybody. it works. learn more on iodine group.

> Gracia

>

> Even the " iodine docs " post test results which show that sometimes over

> a third of the test patients do not benefit from the doses of iodine

> used in the tests. But Gracia believes _everyone_ should benefit from

> large dose iodine. And discounts all evidence to the contrary. One of

> the reasons I have a hard time seeing how she values science.

>

>