Re: Abraham's history of iodine

[Guest guest]

Hmmmm, ok, I seeeeeeee.... <raising eyebrow>

Yes, I've read more about iodine than anything in my entire 6yrs at

university. Yes, I read Gaby's " stuff " ... <rolling eyes> I was a non

believer, Chuck, but after sucking in as much info (both pro and con)

about iodine, I am convinced. I " had " fibrocystic breast disease,

Chuck, and it's now all gone thanks to Iodoral. I am a firm believer

in " the proof's in the pudding " , not of the gobbledegook that's

pushed off as mainstream alopathic knowledge concerning the dangers

of anything over 150mcg of iodine.

Hmmm, what about Drs Brownstein and Flechas? How about the iodine

info at http://www.breastcancerchoices.org ??? What about Dr Derry's

successes treating breast cancer with Iodoral/Lugol's...

I was told point blank by yet another ninny medico that taking 50mg

Iodoral per day would harm me beyond belief. HAH. It's obviously

helped me more than I had ever hoped. And I am not alone.

Dr Abraham is a shill for an iodine company? Hahahahaha that is too

funny. I see you still have a lot to learn, Grasshopper...

<wink wink, nudge nudge>

Sam :-D

(thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized)

k9gang@...

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-09/IOD_09.htm

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-02/IOD_02.htm

http://www.laurapower.com/iodinedeficiency.htm

http://www.vrp.com/art/1860.asp

http://www.quackcenter.com/ideficiency.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller20.html

http://www.iodine4health.com

http://www.jcrows.com/iodine.html

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/loadTest.htm

http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/loading.html

http://www.helpmythyroid.com/IOD4.htm

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDL/is_1_13/ai_n17212623

http://www.altsupportthyroid.org/dt.php

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art40118.asp

http://www.type2hypothyroidism.com/Type1VsType2.html

BHRT

http://www.medaus.com/p/Three-Rules-for-Using-BHRT___200,965.html

http://www.thecompounder.com/saliva-vs-serum.pdf

=====

Yes, and the list has been over Dr. Abraham's claims before. I imagine

some of this history may even be accurate, although the average

consumption of iodine in Japan was based on confusion about the iodine

content between dry and wet sea weed. However, when making medical

decisions for myself or loved ones, I think I would still give much

more

credence to recent peer reviewed literature than to a shill for an

iodine company, whose only publications are in the Original

Internist, a

magazine for chiropractors.

I would also put much more confidence in Dr. Alan Gaby's criticisms of

Abraham and his timely concerns about the reckless use of iodine:

http://www.townsendletter.com/AugSept2005/gabyiodine0805.htm

This sparked several exchanges between Gaby and Abraham in that

journal

that you might want to read.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

I am glad that the iodine has worked for you. That,

however, doesn't mean that it will work that way for

everyone else, much the same way that penicillin will

not work for everyone the same way, and some people

(like me) can actually die from it. If the human body

and its intricacies were so simple, DNA therapy would

already be changing the barbaric practices of so

called modern medicine. Another point is that a

medication at high doses that works for you initially,

and doesn't seem to be doing any ill, can, many times,

suddenly turn around and do all kinds of damage. Our

bodies are made to withstand lots of punishment, and

we tend to give it lots to deal with, but ultimately,

just like auto engines, they'll give out. One more

point I'd like to make is that everything you put into

your mouth, no matter what it is, has to be cleared

through either your kidneys and/or your liver.

Toxicity of these organs can take many years of

punishment, but once the damage is done, it's done.

Roni

Roni

--- Sam <k9gang@...> wrote:

>

> Hmmmm, ok, I seeeeeeee.... <raising eyebrow>

>

> Yes, I've read more about iodine than anything in my

> entire 6yrs at

> university. Yes, I read Gaby's " stuff " ... <rolling

> eyes> I was a non

> believer, Chuck, but after sucking in as much info

> (both pro and con)

> about iodine, I am convinced. I " had " fibrocystic

> breast disease,

> Chuck, and it's now all gone thanks to Iodoral. I am

> a firm believer

> in " the proof's in the pudding " , not of the

> gobbledegook that's

> pushed off as mainstream alopathic knowledge

> concerning the dangers

> of anything over 150mcg of iodine.

>

> Hmmm, what about Drs Brownstein and Flechas? How

> about the iodine

> info at http://www.breastcancerchoices.org ??? What

> about Dr Derry's

> successes treating breast cancer with

> Iodoral/Lugol's...

>

> I was told point blank by yet another ninny medico

> that taking 50mg

> Iodoral per day would harm me beyond belief. HAH.

> It's obviously

> helped me more than I had ever hoped. And I am not

> alone.

>

> Dr Abraham is a shill for an iodine company?

> Hahahahaha that is too

> funny. I see you still have a lot to learn,

> Grasshopper...

>

> <wink wink, nudge nudge>

>

> Sam :-D

> (thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized)

> k9gang@...

>

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml

> http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-09/IOD_09.htm

> http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-02/IOD_02.htm

> http://www.laurapower.com/iodinedeficiency.htm

> http://www.vrp.com/art/1860.asp

> http://www.quackcenter.com/ideficiency.html

> http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller20.html

> http://www.iodine4health.com

> http://www.jcrows.com/iodine.html

> http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/loadTest.htm

> http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/loading.html

> http://www.helpmythyroid.com/IOD4.htm

>

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDL/is_1_13/ai_n17212623

> http://www.altsupportthyroid.org/dt.php

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

> http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art40118.asp

> http://www.type2hypothyroidism.com/Type1VsType2.html

> BHRT

>

http://www.medaus.com/p/Three-Rules-for-Using-BHRT___200,965.html

> http://www.thecompounder.com/saliva-vs-serum.pdf

>

> =====

> Yes, and the list has been over Dr. Abraham's claims

> before. I imagine

> some of this history may even be accurate, although

> the average

> consumption of iodine in Japan was based on

> confusion about the iodine

> content between dry and wet sea weed. However, when

> making medical

> decisions for myself or loved ones, I think I would

> still give much

> more

> credence to recent peer reviewed literature than to

> a shill for an

> iodine company, whose only publications are in the

> Original

> Internist, a

> magazine for chiropractors.

>

> I would also put much more confidence in Dr. Alan

> Gaby's criticisms of

> Abraham and his timely concerns about the reckless

> use of iodine:

>

http://www.townsendletter.com/AugSept2005/gabyiodine0805.htm

>

> This sparked several exchanges between Gaby and

> Abraham in that

> journal

> that you might want to read.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sam,

You wrote:

>

> ...Dr Abraham is a shill for an iodine company? Hahahahaha that is too

> funny. I see you still have a lot to learn, Grasshopper...

>

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml

Note that 16 out of the 18 publications Optimox cites as " research " on

their products are by Abraham, and that every single one of them is

published in the Original Internist.

The Townsend Letters, and all of Abraham's correspondence with them,

list Dr. Abraham's mailing address as " Optimox ... Torrence, CA ... " and

give his email address at an Optimox domain. He is also listed as

performing research for Optimox on calcium for menopause and colloidal

metals. Strange that ALL of his " publications " are about Optimox products.

Keep laughing.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Good points; but I think you're overlooking that many items will pass

from the body as excrement without passing through either the liver or

kidneys. If you had stated that anything _absorbed into your system_

would have to be processed by the liver or kidneys AFAIK that's probably

nearly 100% accurate.

>

> Re: Abraham's history of iodine

>

<hypothyroidism/message/29152;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcThtZWt\

qBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjkxNTIEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzYwMTIzNA-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

>

<mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Abraham%27s%20history%20of%20io\

dine>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

>

> Wed Jul 4, 2007 6:51 pm (PST)

>

> I am glad that the iodine has worked for you. That,

> however, doesn't mean that it will work that way for

> everyone else, much the same way that penicillin will

> not work for everyone the same way, and some people

> (like me) can actually die from it. If the human body

> and its intricacies were so simple, DNA therapy would

> already be changing the barbaric practices of so

> called modern medicine. Another point is that a

> medication at high doses that works for you initially,

> and doesn't seem to be doing any ill, can, many times,

> suddenly turn around and do all kinds of damage. Our

> bodies are made to withstand lots of punishment, and

> we tend to give it lots to deal with, but ultimately,

> just like auto engines, they'll give out. One more

> point I'd like to make is that everything you put into

> your mouth, no matter what it is, has to be cleared

> through either your kidneys and/or your liver.

> Toxicity of these organs can take many years of

> punishment, but once the damage is done, it's done.

>

> Roni

[Guest guest]

Of course I wasn't talking about waste products...LOL

Roni

--- <res075oh@...> wrote:

> Good points; but I think you're overlooking that

> many items will pass

> from the body as excrement without passing through

> either the liver or

> kidneys. If you had stated that anything _absorbed

> into your system_

> would have to be processed by the liver or kidneys

> AFAIK that's probably

> nearly 100% accurate.

>

>

>

> >

> > Re: Abraham's history of iodine

> >

>

<hypothyroidism/message/29152;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcThtZWt\

qBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjkxNTIEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzYwMTIzNA-->

> >

> >

> >

> > Posted by: " Roni Molin "

> matchermaam@...

> >

>

<mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Abraham%27s%20history%20of%20io\

dine>

> > matchermaam

> <matchermaam>

> >

> >

> > Wed Jul 4, 2007 6:51 pm (PST)

> >

> > I am glad that the iodine has worked for you.

> That,

> > however, doesn't mean that it will work that way

> for

> > everyone else, much the same way that penicillin

> will

> > not work for everyone the same way, and some

> people

> > (like me) can actually die from it. If the human

> body

> > and its intricacies were so simple, DNA therapy

> would

> > already be changing the barbaric practices of so

> > called modern medicine. Another point is that a

> > medication at high doses that works for you

> initially,

> > and doesn't seem to be doing any ill, can, many

> times,

> > suddenly turn around and do all kinds of damage.

> Our

> > bodies are made to withstand lots of punishment,

> and

> > we tend to give it lots to deal with, but

> ultimately,

> > just like auto engines, they'll give out. One more

> > point I'd like to make is that everything you put

> into

> > your mouth, no matter what it is, has to be

> cleared

> > through either your kidneys and/or your liver.

> > Toxicity of these organs can take many years of

> > punishment, but once the damage is done, it's

> done.

> >

> > Roni

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Abraham also takes 100mg Iodoral per day. I think he's also the one who

believes in the literal interpretation of the bible LOL ie the earth is about

6,000 years old. But he is actually brilliant with iodine and hormones.

Gracia

Sam,

You wrote:

>

> ...Dr Abraham is a shill for an iodine company? Hahahahaha that is too

> funny. I see you still have a lot to learn, Grasshopper...

>

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml

Note that 16 out of the 18 publications Optimox cites as " research " on

their products are by Abraham, and that every single one of them is

published in the Original Internist.

The Townsend Letters, and all of Abraham's correspondence with them,

list Dr. Abraham's mailing address as " Optimox ... Torrence, CA ... " and

give his email address at an Optimox domain. He is also listed as

performing research for Optimox on calcium for menopause and colloidal

metals. Strange that ALL of his " publications " are about Optimox products.

Keep laughing.

Chuck

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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PM

[Guest guest]

Unless I am mistaken Brownstein has come to the conclusion the the Earth

has existed for approximately 6000 years. That has about as much

credibility as stating the Earth is flat.

Technically, that would have no bearing whatsoever on any published work

of his on iodine in a peer reviewed journal. But if I should insist to

you that I sh*t $20 gold coins you probably wouldn't have much faith in

anything I said.

Unless it is published in a peer reviewed journal where the methodology

can be examined and duplicated or refuted it has no scientific value

whatsoever. And you must realize that Chuck is going to look at it that

way.

That does not mean that anecdotal reports are invalid or inaccurate. It

simply means that, from the scientific viewpoint, it has no value. OTOH

if it works for you its value to you can be immense.

> Hmmm, what about Drs Brownstein and Flechas? How about the iodine

> info at http://www.breastcancerchoices.org

> <http://www.breastcancerchoices.org> ??? What about Dr Derry's

> successes treating breast cancer with Iodoral/Lugol'

> s...

[Guest guest]

I think we all start out believing the " experts " , the accepted standard of

care, but then bit by bit the house of cards comes falling down.

The emporer has no clothes on.

Gracia

> Sam,

>

> You wrote:

>

>> Chuck, the history of iodine is a really good read. Did you read it? ...

>

> Yes, and the list has been over Dr. Abraham's claims before. I imagine

> some of this history may even be accurate, although the average

> consumption of iodine in Japan was based on confusion about the iodine

> content between dry and wet sea weed. However, when making medical

> decisions for myself or loved ones, I think I would still give much more

> credence to recent peer reviewed literature than to a shill for an

> iodine company, whose only publications are in the Original Internist, a

> magazine for chiropractors.

>

> I would also put much more confidence in Dr. Alan Gaby's criticisms of

> Abraham and his timely concerns about the reckless use of iodine:

> http://www.townsendletter.com/AugSept2005/gabyiodine0805.htm

>

> This sparked several exchanges between Gaby and Abraham in that journal

> that you might want to read.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Actually, you were. Any substance removed from your body by your liver

or kidneys is a waste product. I think...

>

> Re: Abraham's history of iodine

>

<hypothyroidism/message/29161;_ylc=X3oDMTJxa2trNzA\

1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjkxNjEEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzYyNjM0Nw-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

>

<mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Abraham%27s%20history%20of%20io\

dine>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

>

> Wed Jul 4, 2007 8:17 pm (PST)

>

> Of course I wasn't talking about waste products...LOL

>

> Roni

>

> --- <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> wrote:

>

> > Good points; but I think you're overlooking that

> > many items will pass

> > from the body as excrement without passing through

> > either the liver or

> > kidneys. If you had stated that anything _absorbed

> > into your system_

> > would have to be processed by the liver or kidneys

> > AFAIK that's probably

> > nearly 100% accurate.

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Re: Abraham's history of iodine

> > >

> >

>

<hypothyroidism/message/29152;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcThtZWt\

qBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjkxNTIEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzYwMTIzNA--

>

<hypothyroidism/message/29152;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcThtZWt\

qBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjkxNTIEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzYwMTIzNA-->>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Posted by: " Roni Molin "

> > matchermaam@... <mailto:matchermaam%40>

> > >

> >

> <mailto:matchermaam@...

> <mailto:matchermaam%40>?Subject=%20Re%

> 3A%20Abraham%27s%20history%20of%20iodine>

> > > matchermaam

> > <matchermaam

> <matchermaam>>

> > >

> > >

> > > Wed Jul 4, 2007 6:51 pm (PST)

> > >

> > > I am glad that the iodine has worked for you.

> > That,

> > > however, doesn't mean that it will work that way

> > for

> > > everyone else, much the same way that penicillin

> > will

> > > not work for everyone the same way, and some

> > people

> > > (like me) can actually die from it. If the human

> > body

> > > and its intricacies were so simple, DNA therapy

> > would

> > > already be changing the barbaric practices of so

> > > called modern medicine. Another point is that a

> > > medication at high doses that works for you

> > initially,

> > > and doesn't seem to be doing any ill, can, many

> > times,

> > > suddenly turn around and do all kinds of damage.

> > Our

> > > bodies are made to withstand lots of punishment,

> > and

> > > we tend to give it lots to deal with, but

> > ultimately,

> > > just like auto engines, they'll give out. One more

> > > point I'd like to make is that everything you put

> > into

> > > your mouth, no matter what it is, has to be

> > cleared

> > > through either your kidneys and/or your liver.

> > > Toxicity of these organs can take many years of

> > > punishment, but once the damage is done, it's

> > done.

> > >

> > > Roni

[Guest guest]

When taken properly, it seems to help other iodine deficient people

as well. This isn't a drug, it's one of those " required to be alive "

thingys...

Do you guys even know what being iodine deficient does to the human

body? Rather than all this hub bub about orthoiodosupplementation,

y'all might want to take a good hard look at the actual horrors of

being iodine deficient. Go to http://www.google.com and

input " iodine deficiency " into the search box and read for youselves.

Make sure you learn the things that can cause iodine

deficiency...pretty scary.

Sam

(thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized)

k9gang@...

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-09/IOD_09.htm

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-02/IOD_02.htm

http://www.laurapower.com/iodinedeficiency.htm

http://www.quackcenter.com/ideficiency.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller20.html

http://www.iodine4health.com

http://www.jcrows.com/iodine.html

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/loadTest.htm

http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/loading.html

http://www.helpmythyroid.com/IOD4.htm

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDL/is_1_13/ai_n17212623

http://www.altsupportthyroid.org/dt.php

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art40118.asp

http://www.type2hypothyroidism.com/Type1VsType2.html

BHRT

http://www.medaus.com/p/Three-Rules-for-Using-BHRT___200,965.html

http://www.thecompounder.com/saliva-vs-serum.pdf

>

> I am glad that the iodine has worked for you. That,

> however, doesn't mean that it will work that way for

> everyone else, much the same way that penicillin will

> not work for everyone the same way, and some people

> (like me) can actually die from it. If the human body

> and its intricacies were so simple, DNA therapy would

> already be changing the barbaric practices of so

> called modern medicine. Another point is that a

> medication at high doses that works for you initially,

> and doesn't seem to be doing any ill, can, many times,

> suddenly turn around and do all kinds of damage. Our

> bodies are made to withstand lots of punishment, and

> we tend to give it lots to deal with, but ultimately,

> just like auto engines, they'll give out. One more

> point I'd like to make is that everything you put into

> your mouth, no matter what it is, has to be cleared

> through either your kidneys and/or your liver.

> Toxicity of these organs can take many years of

> punishment, but once the damage is done, it's done.

>

> Roni

[Guest guest]

<grin> Gold coins? tee hee hee

I think it's Abraham who said that. But then again, this " is " a belief

of many many many bible-y people. Do a google search on " earth has

existed for 6000 years " . It's pretty interesting.

I get sort of weirded out on Sundays when entire families make

pilgrimages to their local places of worship and get all " fire and

brimstoned " by a guy in a dress, rather than to wake up, watch the sun

rise, and than the powers that be for all there is....

But basically, I wouldn't discount someone's knowledge merely because I

don't agree with their religeous beliefs.

And, , I'd actually be awestruck if you " could " do that gold coin

trick. Really. It sounds wickedly cool. :-D

Sam

(thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized)

k9gang@...

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-09/IOD_09.htm

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-02/IOD_02.htm

http://www.laurapower.com/iodinedeficiency.htm

http://www.vrp.com/art/1860.asp

http://www.quackcenter.com/ideficiency.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller20.html

http://www.iodine4health.com

http://www.jcrows.com/iodine.html

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/loadTest.htm

http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/loading.html

http://www.helpmythyroid.com/IOD4.htm

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDL/is_1_13/ai_n17212623

http://www.altsupportthyroid.org/dt.php

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art40118.asp

http://www.type2hypothyroidism.com/Type1VsType2.html

BHRT

http://www.medaus.com/p/Three-Rules-for-Using-BHRT___200,965.html

http://www.thecompounder.com/saliva-vs-serum.pdf

>

> Unless I am mistaken Brownstein has come to the conclusion the the

Earth

> has existed for approximately 6000 years. That has about as much

> credibility as stating the Earth is flat.

>

> Technically, that would have no bearing whatsoever on any published

work

> of his on iodine in a peer reviewed journal. But if I should insist

to

> you that I sh*t $20 gold coins you probably wouldn't have much faith

in

> anything I said.

[Guest guest]

O.K., so what do you get out of splitting hairs. I

firmly believe you know exactly what I meant, and it

would be much more beneficial to this list to address

the meaning of what I said than to get bogged down in

this kind of banter.

Roni

--- <res075oh@...> wrote:

> Actually, you were. Any substance removed from your

> body by your liver

> or kidneys is a waste product. I think...

>

>

>

> >

> > Re: Abraham's history of iodine

> >

>

<hypothyroidism/message/29161;_ylc=X3oDMTJxa2trNzA\

1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjkxNjEEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzYyNjM0Nw-->

> >

> >

> >

> > Posted by: " Roni Molin "

> matchermaam@...

> >

>

<mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Abraham%27s%20history%20of%20io\

dine>

> > matchermaam

> <matchermaam>

> >

> >

> > Wed Jul 4, 2007 8:17 pm (PST)

> >

> > Of course I wasn't talking about waste

> products...LOL

> >

> > Roni

> >

> > --- <res075oh@...

> <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> wrote:

> >

> > > Good points; but I think you're overlooking that

> > > many items will pass

> > > from the body as excrement without passing

> through

> > > either the liver or

> > > kidneys. If you had stated that anything

> _absorbed

> > > into your system_

> > > would have to be processed by the liver or

> kidneys

> > > AFAIK that's probably

> > > nearly 100% accurate.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Re: Abraham's history of iodine

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

<hypothyroidism/message/29152;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcThtZWt\

qBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjkxNTIEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzYwMTIzNA--

>

> >

>

<hypothyroidism/message/29152;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcThtZWt\

qBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjkxNTIEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzYwMTIzNA-->>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Posted by: " Roni Molin "

> > > matchermaam@...

> <mailto:matchermaam%40>

> > > >

> > >

> > <mailto:matchermaam@...

> > <mailto:matchermaam%40>?Subject=%20Re%

> > 3A%20Abraham%27s%20history%20of%20iodine>

> > > > matchermaam

> > > <matchermaam

> > <matchermaam>>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Wed Jul 4, 2007 6:51 pm (PST)

> > > >

> > > > I am glad that the iodine has worked for you.

> > > That,

> > > > however, doesn't mean that it will work that

> way

> > > for

> > > > everyone else, much the same way that

> penicillin

> > > will

> > > > not work for everyone the same way, and some

> > > people

> > > > (like me) can actually die from it. If the

> human

> > > body

> > > > and its intricacies were so simple, DNA

> therapy

> > > would

> > > > already be changing the barbaric practices of

> so

> > > > called modern medicine. Another point is that

> a

> > > > medication at high doses that works for you

> > > initially,

> > > > and doesn't seem to be doing any ill, can,

> many

> > > times,

> > > > suddenly turn around and do all kinds of

> damage.

> > > Our

> > > > bodies are made to withstand lots of

> punishment,

> > > and

> > > > we tend to give it lots to deal with, but

> > > ultimately,

> > > > just like auto engines, they'll give out. One

> more

> > > > point I'd like to make is that everything you

> put

> > > into

> > > > your mouth, no matter what it is, has to be

> > > cleared

> > > > through either your kidneys and/or your liver.

> > > > Toxicity of these organs can take many years

> of

> > > > punishment, but once the damage is done, it's

> > > done.

> > > >

> > > > Roni

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is what I found on Google. It seems 150mcg of

iodine can be easily obtained with a multi vitamin

pill, eating iodized salt, and eating fish and egg

yolks.

Roni

http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic1187.htm

******************************************************

--- Sam <k9gang@...> wrote:

> When taken properly, it seems to help other iodine

> deficient people

> as well. This isn't a drug, it's one of those

> " required to be alive "

> thingys...

>

> Do you guys even know what being iodine deficient

> does to the human

> body? Rather than all this hub bub about

> orthoiodosupplementation,

> y'all might want to take a good hard look at the

> actual horrors of

> being iodine deficient. Go to http://www.google.com

> and

> input " iodine deficiency " into the search box and

> read for youselves.

> Make sure you learn the things that can cause iodine

>

> deficiency...pretty scary.

>

> Sam

> (thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized)

> k9gang@...

>

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml

>

> http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-09/IOD_09.htm

> http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-02/IOD_02.htm

>

> http://www.laurapower.com/iodinedeficiency.htm

> http://www.quackcenter.com/ideficiency.html

> http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller20.html

> http://www.iodine4health.com

> http://www.jcrows.com/iodine.html

> http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/loadTest.htm

> http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/loading.html

> http://www.helpmythyroid.com/IOD4.htm

>

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDL/is_1_13/ai_n17212623

>

> http://www.altsupportthyroid.org/dt.php

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

> http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art40118.asp

> http://www.type2hypothyroidism.com/Type1VsType2.html

>

> BHRT

>

http://www.medaus.com/p/Three-Rules-for-Using-BHRT___200,965.html

>

> http://www.thecompounder.com/saliva-vs-serum.pdf

>

>

>

> >

> > I am glad that the iodine has worked for you.

> That,

> > however, doesn't mean that it will work that way

> for

> > everyone else, much the same way that penicillin

> will

> > not work for everyone the same way, and some

> people

> > (like me) can actually die from it. If the human

> body

> > and its intricacies were so simple, DNA therapy

> would

> > already be changing the barbaric practices of so

> > called modern medicine. Another point is that a

> > medication at high doses that works for you

> initially,

> > and doesn't seem to be doing any ill, can, many

> times,

> > suddenly turn around and do all kinds of damage.

> Our

> > bodies are made to withstand lots of punishment,

> and

> > we tend to give it lots to deal with, but

> ultimately,

> > just like auto engines, they'll give out. One more

> > point I'd like to make is that everything you put

> into

> > your mouth, no matter what it is, has to be

> cleared

> > through either your kidneys and/or your liver.

> > Toxicity of these organs can take many years of

> > punishment, but once the damage is done, it's

> done.

> >

> > Roni

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

give me a break.

I have taken 50mg iodine/iodide for 1 1/2 years.

Gracia

This is what I found on Google. It seems 150mcg of

iodine can be easily obtained with a multi vitamin

pill, eating iodized salt, and eating fish and egg

yolks.

Roni

http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic1187.htm

******************************************************

Recent Activity

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[Guest guest]

Hi Gracia,

It's in the counting. 1mg = 1000mcg. so 50mg =

50,000mcg., and 150mg = 150,000mcg.

So essentially, you are taking a whopping dose as far

as the medical establishment is concerned.

Roni

--- Gracia <circe@...> wrote:

>

> give me a break.

> I have taken 50mg iodine/iodide for 1 1/2 years.

> Gracia

>

> This is what I found on Google. It seems 150mcg of

> iodine can be easily obtained with a multi vitamin

> pill, eating iodized salt, and eating fish and egg

> yolks.

>

> Roni

>

> http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic1187.htm

>

>

******************************************************

>

>

> Recent Activity

> a.. 4New Members

> Visit Your Group

>

[Guest guest]

It gets far less interesting the 1000th time you hear/read someone say,

" Evolution is only a theory " . That happens to be a 100% valid

statement. But it is also one which is never made by anyone who

_really_ knows what it means.

If the coin thing works out I'll send you a couple. Do you want me to

wash them first? [ggg]

>

>

> Re: Abraham's history of iodine

>

<hypothyroidism/message/29186;_ylc=X3oDMTJxOTQ5NjJ\

jBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjkxODYEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzY1NDc1OQ-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " Sam " k9gang@...

>

<mailto:k9gang@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Abraham%27s%20history%20of%20io\

dine>

> stealthwind <stealthwind>

>

>

> Thu Jul 5, 2007 9:07 am (PST)

>

> <grin> Gold coins? tee hee hee

>

> I think it's Abraham who said that. But then again, this " is " a belief

> of many many many bible-y people. Do a google search on " earth has

> existed for 6000 years " . It's pretty interesting.

[Guest guest]

I guess you're right; sometimes I do tend to let inaccurate statements

distract me. Sorry.

>

> Re: Abraham's history of iodine

>

<hypothyroidism/message/29191;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMnVpZXZ\

jBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjkxOTEEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzY1NDc1OQ-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

>

<mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Abraham%27s%20history%20of%20io\

dine>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

>

> Thu Jul 5, 2007 9:38 am (PST)

>

> O.K., so what do you get out of splitting hairs. I

> firmly believe you know exactly what I meant, and it

> would be much more beneficial to this list to address

> the meaning of what I said than to get bogged down in

> this kind of banter.

>

> Roni

>

> --- <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> wrote:

>

> > Actually, you were. Any substance removed from your

> > body by your liver

> > or kidneys is a waste product. I think...

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thank you, apology appreciated.

Roni

--- <res075oh@...> wrote:

> I guess you're right; sometimes I do tend to let

> inaccurate statements

> distract me. Sorry.

>

>

>

> >

> > Re: Abraham's history of iodine

> >

>

<hypothyroidism/message/29191;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMnVpZXZ\

jBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjkxOTEEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzY1NDc1OQ-->

> >

> >

> >

> > Posted by: " Roni Molin "

> matchermaam@...

> >

>

<mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Abraham%27s%20history%20of%20io\

dine>

> > matchermaam

> <matchermaam>

> >

> >

> > Thu Jul 5, 2007 9:38 am (PST)

> >

> > O.K., so what do you get out of splitting hairs. I

> > firmly believe you know exactly what I meant, and

> it

> > would be much more beneficial to this list to

> address

> > the meaning of what I said than to get bogged down

> in

> > this kind of banter.

> >

> > Roni

> >

> > --- <res075oh@...

> <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> wrote:

> >

> > > Actually, you were. Any substance removed from

> your

> > > body by your liver

> > > or kidneys is a waste product. I think...

> > >

> > >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Google lists 618,000 links on iodine deficiency.

http://www.altcancer.com/lugols.htm

" Although bound to sodium, the use of table salt as a delivery

vehicle for iodine ironically presents a situation where you ingest

far more chlorine, which displaces iodine...than you do the iodine

itself. "

Sam

(thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized)

k9gang@...

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-09/IOD_09.htm

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-02/IOD_02.htm

http://www.laurapower.com/iodinedeficiency.htm

http://www.vrp.com/art/1860.asp

http://www.quackcenter.com/ideficiency.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller20.html

http://www.iodine4health.com

http://www.jcrows.com/iodine.html

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/loadTest.htm

http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/loading.html

http://www.helpmythyroid.com/IOD4.htm

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDL/is_1_13/ai_n17212623

http://www.altsupportthyroid.org/dt.php

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art40118.asp

http://www.type2hypothyroidism.com/Type1VsType2.html

BHRT

http://www.medaus.com/p/Three-Rules-for-Using-BHRT___200,965.html

http://www.thecompounder.com/saliva-vs-serum.pdf

>

> This is what I found on Google. It seems 150mcg of

> iodine can be easily obtained with a multi vitamin

> pill, eating iodized salt, and eating fish and egg

> yolks.

>

> Roni

[Guest guest]

Sam wrote:

>

> Google lists 618,000 links on iodine deficiency.

>

Yes, and 617,900 of them say that iodine deficiency is relieved by

adding a trace to table salt. For the last 10 years, the UN has been

building iodination plants in third world countries where the diet is

deficient. The object is to eliminate the #1 cause of mental retardation

worldwide. That does not make it healthy or beneficial to take several

hundred times the recommended daily requirement. Your argument is a non

sequitur.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

I reiterate:

http://www.altcancer.com/lugols.htm

" Although bound to sodium, the use of table salt as a delivery

vehicle for iodine ironically presents a situation where you ingest

far more chlorine, which displaces iodine...than you do the iodine

itself. "

The object is to reverse iodine deficiency.

If you find the above info not useful, then explain why so many

people who use iodized table salt continue to exhibit symptoms of

iodine deficiency.

Using me as an example, and discounting the altcancer.com quote, my

use of iodized salt should have relieved my iodine deficiency

accordng to your statement. However, it did not. And yes, I have had

2 loading tests (1st 0%; 2nd 33% - the goal is 90%) and am planning a

third (have " you " had an iodine loading test yet?). 50mg

iodine/iodide daily has been the only thing that has worked to help

reverse my iodine deficiency. I've had hair regrowth, age spots

disappearing, hair repigmenting, skin clearing up, ability to use my

hormones more efficiently, FBD reversing, more vigor and

youthfullness, Candida cured, nail fungus cured, to name a few

things. And this was while I was on consistent/unchanged dosing of

Armour Thyroid, adrenal support, and BHRT, so those results can not

be attributed to anything other than 50mg Iodoral daily. As a matter

of fact, tt was after the 1st month on 50mg Iodoral that my FBD

cleared, within 3 months that my adrenal insufficiency was reversed,

and I had the need to " reduce " Armour and BHRT dosages.

Proof's in the pudding...

Sam

(thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized)

k9gang@...

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-09/IOD_09.htm

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-02/IOD_02.htm

http://www.laurapower.com/iodinedeficiency.htm

http://www.vrp.com/art/1860.asp

http://www.quackcenter.com/ideficiency.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller20.html

http://www.iodine4health.com

http://www.jcrows.com/iodine.html

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/loadTest.htm

http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/loading.html

http://www.helpmythyroid.com/IOD4.htm

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDL/is_1_13/ai_n17212623

http://www.altsupportthyroid.org/dt.php

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art40118.asp

http://www.type2hypothyroidism.com/Type1VsType2.html

BHRT

http://www.medaus.com/p/Three-Rules-for-Using-BHRT___200,965.html

http://www.thecompounder.com/saliva-vs-serum.pdf

> >

> > Google lists 618,000 links on iodine deficiency.

> >

>

> Yes, and 617,900 of them say that iodine deficiency is relieved by

> adding a trace to table salt. For the last 10 years, the UN has

been

> building iodination plants in third world countries where the diet

is

> deficient. The object is to eliminate the #1 cause of mental

retardation

> worldwide. That does not make it healthy or beneficial to take

several

> hundred times the recommended daily requirement. Your argument is a

non

> sequitur.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

Sam, before anyone has to explain " why so many people who use iodized

table salt continue to exhibit symptoms of

iodine deficiency " please provide some evidence that your statement is

correct. Do you have any numbers from any reputable source that

indicate that there are significant numbers of iodine deficient people

who consume a normal quantity of iodized salt? I'm under the impression

that all the studies indicate that once iodine deficient people start to

consume iodized salt that the deficiency disappears.

It's fantastic that you are enjoying great health now, and I'm happy for

you. But frankly I'm quite concerned about the quantity of iodine that

you and Gracia report taking. 50 mg/day??? Isn't that 50,000 mcg/day

[as someone else suggested], while the recommended intake is 150

mcg/day? Or are my numbers so far off base?

If I'm looking at it right I surely hope you know the signs of iodine

poisoning. If you wake up some day with a dead liver you're history.

But from what I've read the symptoms are very up front and unpleasant,

so it seems you would certainly recognize them.

> .

>

>

> Re: Abraham's history of iodine

>

<hypothyroidism/message/29219;_ylc=X3oDMTJxYzdwZnF\

tBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMjkyMTkEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzY2OTY5OQ-->

>

>

>

> Posted by: " Sam " k9gang@...

>

<mailto:k9gang@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Abraham%27s%20history%20of%20io\

dine>

> stealthwind <stealthwind>

>

>

> Thu Jul 5, 2007 1:12 pm (PST)

>

> I reiterate:

> http://www.altcancer.com/lugols.htm <http://www.altcancer.com/lugols.htm>

> " Although bound to sodium, the use of table salt as a delivery

> vehicle for iodine ironically presents a situation where you ingest

> far more chlorine, which displaces iodine...than you do the iodine

> itself. "

>

> The object is to reverse iodine deficiency.

>

> If you find the above info not useful, then explain why so many

> people who use iodized table salt continue to exhibit symptoms of

> iodine deficiency.

[Guest guest]

I plan on taking 50mg Iodoral for the rest of my life.

Gracia

Sam, before anyone has to explain " why so many people who use iodized

table salt continue to exhibit symptoms of

iodine deficiency " please provide some evidence that your statement is

correct. Do you have any numbers from any reputable source that

indicate that there are significant numbers of iodine deficient people

who consume a normal quantity of iodized salt? I'm under the impression

that all the studies indicate that once iodine deficient people start to

consume iodized salt that the deficiency disappears.

It's fantastic that you are enjoying great health now, and I'm happy for

you. But frankly I'm quite concerned about the quantity of iodine that

you and Gracia report taking. 50 mg/day??? Isn't that 50,000 mcg/day

[as someone else suggested], while the recommended intake is 150

mcg/day? Or are my numbers so far off base?

If I'm looking at it right I surely hope you know the signs of iodine

poisoning. If you wake up some day with a dead liver you're history.

But from what I've read the symptoms are very up front and unpleasant,

so it seems you would certainly recognize them.

> .

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Thank you for your concern, , but so far so good. I know I

posted this before but here it is again:

" lowest known toxic dosage is 28mg/kg of body weight.

A 50kg female shows toxic signs at ~1400mg per day or ~225 drops of

Lugol's... "

How do I now the other stuff about why people still have symptoms of

ID eve tho they take iodized salt? 3 iodine groups and 4 thyroid

groups...real live people in the middle of living it.

Sam :-o

>

> Sam, before anyone has to explain " why so many people who use

iodized

> table salt continue to exhibit symptoms of

> iodine deficiency " please provide some evidence that your statement

is

> correct. Do you have any numbers from any reputable source that

> indicate that there are significant numbers of iodine deficient

people

> who consume a normal quantity of iodized salt? I'm under the

impression

> that all the studies indicate that once iodine deficient people

start to

> consume iodized salt that the deficiency disappears.

>

> It's fantastic that you are enjoying great health now, and I'm

happy for

> you. But frankly I'm quite concerned about the quantity of iodine

that

> you and Gracia report taking. 50 mg/day??? Isn't that 50,000

mcg/day

> [as someone else suggested], while the recommended intake is 150

> mcg/day? Or are my numbers so far off base?

>

> If I'm looking at it right I surely hope you know the signs of

iodine

> poisoning. If you wake up some day with a dead liver you're

history.

> But from what I've read the symptoms are very up front and

unpleasant,

> so it seems you would certainly recognize them.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sam you wrote: How do I now the other stuff about why people still have

symptoms of ID eve tho they take iodized salt? 3 iodine groups and 4 thyroid

groups...real live people in the middle of living it.

Dear Sam,

You aren't realizing that anecdotal evidence isn't accepted as proof to

either Chuck or . They are like the majority of men in research who believe

that only numbers can be interpreted as data. (I personally think it's more of a

" guy " thing, just like they like electronics etc... I really do love men. I

just hate when their protective urges get out of control. There's nothing like

a big strong man holding you, right ladies?)

Research based purely on numbers is called " quantitative " data and you need

to know where to look for your numbers. Thyroid research is done based on blood

tests which count the amount of thyroid in your system. They have no way to

find out from this information, just how much thyroid each cell is actually

using. It's like trying to predict how much a person is spending by looking at

the amount of money they have in their savings account. The tests can show when

there's no money (Thyroid) to be spent, but aren't much good once the money

(Thyroid) is in the savings account (blood). Men really seem to think these test

are relevant. The quantitative research is based on tests and surveys, in

which the researcher is looking some place specific or has developed questions

based on either his expected out come or evidence he is already aware of.

Research based on stories (anecdotal) in which themes come forward is called

" qualitative " data. In qualitative research, the researcher has to interview

people about their condition with open ended questions, which elicit

information based on the person's experience. This experience is an unknown

quantity,

until many interviews with many different people are done and repetitive themes

begin to emerge. Then and only then can they come up with a test or survey

which quantifies the qualitative data. You can imagine, it takes a lot of work,

and it takes a lot of listening, not something male researchers really want to

do.

Here's an example of something to research....

Let's try massage. Well... first how can you do a double blind study of

massage? LOL, I guess you could gage untrained touch against trained massage

therapist. But, I'm pretty sure someone would know if they are being massaged or

not, and who's to say someone who's untrained might not just have a " natural "

knack for it? So if we wanted to research the affects/benifits/problems of

massage how would one go about it? Where would you start to look? What types of

test

would you begin to give and monitor? You would have to have a preconceived

idea of what might actually be happening, or you would have to interview a whole

lot of people and observe those people while they are getting their massage,

and do an immense battery of tests, and only from looking at the outcomes and

comparing them, could you even begin to know some of the chemical affects

going on in the body, with massage.

Does anyone remember that magic diet pill the doctors were prescribing like

it was candy? Boy, Oh boy did it work! Unfortunately only after enough people

took it and came up with heart issues, did it get taken off the market.

Apparently the researchers weren't running the right tests or long enough to

catch

the damage. A while back there was another research project in which women were

given hormone replacement therapy, to see if it helped with heart issues.

Luckily for the women and the researchers, they were actually looking in the

right

place during the research, and it became clear right away, that it was not

good for women's hearts, so they stopped the study way before it was scheduled

to end. What do you suppose would happen if the researchers in the second study

had been looking at liver or other organ issues instead of the heart?

You might ask why would it matter how much thyroid each cell is actually

using?... Thyroid regulates the amount of oxygen that actually enters each cell

of

your body for use. It doesn't do much good on the outside of the cell. Your

body has all of these tiny little furnaces which need both fuel and oxygen in

order to work. So it's like turning down the burners in each cell when oxygen

isn't being used. Men naturally have higher metabolism than women. It certainly

helps to understand why they are able to convert T4 to T3, when women's

bodies have difficulties. Men's bodies are so different from ours when it comes

to

all hormones, so they may actually need more T4 and women need more T3. But

have the Synthroid researchers looked in that area? Why would they want to look

at how the men and women's bodies use T3 differently, when they are making T4?

How many of the Synthroid research subjects were men and how many were women?

Does Thyroid and Iodine have a synergistic affect in women, yet not in men?

These are the types of questions to ask, but have they been asked?

I think it's interesting that generally women are open to the idea that

unprocessed salt might be different from processed salt, and to men " salt is

salt " ,

it kinda reminds me that other than to OB/GYN and a few Urology doctors,

" bodies are bodies " . Face it women, do we really care that much about

prostrates?

I can only think of one instance that I even care about where it is;-) It

makes sense that men don't really care about what makes women different unless

it

directly affects them.

Do the men in this group not notice it's almost a men vs. women opinion

difference? As women, we are very used to men ignoring our issues because they

don't pertain to them or affect them. I understand that for some men, it is very

uncomfortable not to have the answers to all of the questions. It's OK, really,

I don't have the answers either, but I sure do have a curiosity about life.

Unfortunately there are also a lot more men in medicine and research than

women. As it changes, I suspect the right questions will be asked as well as

qualitative data given more respect. If researchers really were interested in

qualitative data, we'd find them in these user groups.

I'm really wondering why Chuck is here, since he doesn't have the issues he

speaks against and discounts all the women's experience. He says only people

with problems with T4 come to these user groups. Perhaps he feels he's the only

voice of reason? Maybe he likes verbally bullying women? (LOL, you know what

they say about insecure men who feel the need to bully women, don't you, Chuck?

Do you drive a big truck too?) Perhaps Chuck doesn't realize, when he doesn't

validate that a woman has the right to feel the way she feels, he's bully

her? (feelings are feelings, not facts which are supposed to be right or wrong.)

Don't get me wrong Chuck, I like cocky little guys too, they can be very

entertaining. I actually think that Chuck is quite chivalrous, trying to save

all

us ladies from ourselves. We're not here to be saved from ourselves. We're here

to share our stories and find out what other's stories are and if/when

someone has found a solution to an issue in a story which is similar to ours, to

have hope it just might work for us too.

I've also noticed the women in this group often refer to " a leap of faith " ,

when deciding to try something that has worked for another woman, or decide to

go against everything else that they have been previously told. I think the

men would feel much better if they realize, women need to feel a resonance with

others, that many issues of the story have to coincide with their own, before

they are about to take that leap. I believe stories are more important to

women, than " facts " , but that facts are also important... just not as important

as

they seem to be to men, just like stories aren't as important to men.

I'm sure there are many, many enlightened men on this earth, who both like

and treasure the difference between men and women, and don't think women are

broken and need to be fixed when a woman has an emotion and men who don't feel

the need to be superior and belittle women in order to boost their egos. I

actually know men who can validate a woman's feelings and still express their

own

opinions, so I know they exist. In my experience, they don't always exist,

they're male humans too, but they have their glorious moments.

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