Guest guest Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 , Thank you for your kind comments. You wrote: > > I ran across some info this morning that touches on numerous issues > I am interested in. Apparently a man named Micheal Pasychnic > wrote a book, titled The Vital Vastness: Our Living Earth, which was > published in February 2003. I think you mean Pasichnyc. His ideas are basically a pseudoscientific extension of Lovelock's notion of Gaia. Although Lovelock presented his theory in the scientific literature, it has mostly been disputed and rejected as well. Such speculation may make for interesting reading, but most of the science is wrong or missing. I have actually been involved in research in atmospheric ions, specifically those produced by cosmic rays. While positive ions can definitely be associated with making people uncomfortable, for example in the Santa Ana winds, I doubt that these make people any more prone to suicide than more prosaic and obvious weather extremes, such as heat waves, prolonged droughts, and cold snaps. Discomfort of any kind has the potential to push someone over the edge. Sulman did the original research on atmospheric ions in the 1970s, but I have not much research since to back up his claims, particularly the physiological effects, such as thyroid problems. However, light is another matter. I spent a year in Alaska and ten in New Hampshire, where I experienced Seasonal Affective Disorder during the winter months. When I moved south, that all went away. I have also noticed that even with my TSH controlled, I am less tolerant of temperature extremes than I remember being when young. Perhaps that is just the way I remember things; or maybe it is just old age. I spent about half of the day today clearing an old wood pile but didn't quite finish. I ran into the " wall " and ended up taking a nap. Best, Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Hi Chuck, Thank you for responding to my question. I suspected that the book wouldn't hold up well to scientific scrutiny...was just hoping to find some answers. Some years ago I was told by Marsha , who was doing some work on quake sensitivity, that she thought Sulman was inaccurate in his observations regarding positive ions. Marsha thinks ELF signals may be the trigger for changes in mood. Whatever is doing it...it doesn't seem to be fading at all...or, perhaps, my own aging body's comfort zone is becoming narrower and narrower I'm sure hitting the " wall " a lot these days. Yes, light and SAD...what do you think of Terman and Terman's work regrading high density negative ions and SAD? I also am wondering what your thoughts are regarding supraphysiological dosing of thyroid to treat bipolar disorder? I have very great respect for your opinion, Chuck...and realize that my questions, at best, border on being off-topic here...but I think that thyroid effects are very complicated...much more complicated than we sometimes realize. Thank you for taking so much time to help the list better understand. Warm regards, Chuck B wrote: > I think you mean Pasichnyc. His ideas are basically a > >pseudoscientific extension of Lovelock's notion of Gaia. Although >Lovelock presented his theory in the scientific literature, it has >mostly been disputed and rejected as well. Such speculation may make for >interesting reading, but most of the science is wrong or missing. > >I have actually been involved in research in atmospheric ions, >specifically those produced by cosmic rays. While positive ions can >definitely be associated with making people uncomfortable, for example >in the Santa Ana winds, I doubt that these make people any more prone to >suicide than more prosaic and obvious weather extremes, such as heat >waves, prolonged droughts, and cold snaps. Discomfort of any kind has >the potential to push someone over the edge. Sulman did the original >research on atmospheric ions in the 1970s, but I have not much research >since to back up his claims, particularly the physiological effects, >such as thyroid problems. > >However, light is another matter. I spent a year in Alaska and ten in >New Hampshire, where I experienced Seasonal Affective Disorder during >the winter months. When I moved south, that all went away. > >I have also noticed that even with my TSH controlled, I am less tolerant >of temperature extremes than I remember being when young. Perhaps that >is just the way I remember things; or maybe it is just old age. I spent >about half of the day today clearing an old wood pile but didn't quite >finish. I ran into the " wall " and ended up taking a nap. > >Best, >Chuck > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 , You wrote: > > ... Yes, light and SAD...what do you think of Terman and Terman's work > regrading high density negative ions and SAD? I believe they showed that ions and light both had some antidepressive effects. I would have expected that anyway. The question is whether either or both have physiological benefits beyond mood. > > I also am wondering what your thoughts are regarding supraphysiological > dosing of thyroid to treat bipolar disorder? That's a new one to me. I would not think bipolar and thyroid were directly connected, although thyroid status would probably affect the rate of cycling in a bipolar person. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 Hi Chuck, I meant to send a URL in earlier...got tied up with stuff...and didn't get around to looking it up till now. Apologies. The first URL discusses bipolar disorder and the use of supraphysiologic dosing of thyroid. I think there's something to it. Allso including info about a very interesting paper regarding thyroid antibody titers and borderline personality disorder. I'm very interested in the work that's being done regarding thyroid issues and problems that are labeled bipolar disorder and BPD. One of my docs posts info about this at his website...and has helped me hook up to the docs doing the supraphysiologic thyroid research. They have a program I really think highly of to help people track their moods. Because of the hostile and aggressive climate that sometimes prevails on this list, I've been reluctant to post here...particularly information regarding work or researchers I have a high opinion of...but wanted to share this info in case it may help other lurkers such as myself...and hoping you might find it of interest. I have a very high opinion of your efforts...and your willingness to tolerate the often negative posts. You're a good man. Warm regards, http://www.mhc.com/Algorithms/Depression/bpiadd.htm Supraphysiologic thyroid treatment (i.e., to produce T4 levels 150% of the upper limit of normal) has been successful in treating some cases of highly refractory bipolar depression. *1: *Endocrine. <javascript:AL_get(this, 'jour', 'Endocrine.');> 2003 Jul;21(2):153-8.Click here to read <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/utils/fref.fcgi?PrId=3129 & itool=AbstractPlus\ -def & uid=12897379 & db=pubmed & url=http://www.humanapress.com/ArticleDetail.pasp?is\ sn=0969-711X & acode=ENDO:21:2:153> Links <javascript:PopUpMenu2_Set(Menu12897379);> Antithyroid antibody-linked symptoms in borderline personality disorder. *Geracioti TD Jr* <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Geracioti\ %20TD%20Jr%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel\ ..Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus>, *Kling MA* <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Kling%20M\ A%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_R\ VAbstractPlus>, *Post RM* <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Post%20RM\ %22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RV\ AbstractPlus>, *Gold PW* <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Gold%20PW\ %22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RV\ AbstractPlus>. Clinical Neuroendocrinology, National Institute of Mental Health, Bethesda, MD, USA. geracioti@... PMID: 12897379 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] > > >>I also am wondering what your thoughts are regarding supraphysiological >>dosing of thyroid to treat bipolar disorder? >> >> > >That's a new one to me. I would not think bipolar and thyroid were >directly connected, although thyroid status would probably affect the >rate of cycling in a bipolar person. > >Chuck > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 , Thanks. That is an interesting new connection for me. Those are fairly new studies, still in the " preliminary " category, although evidently promising. " Refractory " means that the usual lithium related combinations with other drugs don't work. Refractory cases are also commonly " rapid cycling, " which means more than four episodes per year. So, this implies a subset of the more extreme bipolar cases for which this approach works. It may be that this subset suffers from a combination of conditions, one that sets up the bipolar and one involving the thyroid axis. It definitely does not mean that bipolar symptoms should be added to Shomon's list of hypoT symptoms. I have a friend that treats both bipolar and BPD, so I'll ask him if he knows about this connection next time I see him. I have referred about dozen students to him with these problems over the years. Are you being treated for any of these conditions or know someone that is? If so, I hope you all find relief soon. Best, Chuck > Hi Chuck, > > I meant to send a URL in earlier...got tied up with stuff...and didn't > get around to looking it up till now. Apologies. > > The first URL discusses bipolar disorder and the use of supraphysiologic > dosing of thyroid. I think there's something to it. > > Allso including info about a very interesting paper regarding thyroid > antibody titers and borderline personality disorder. I'm very > interested in the work that's being done regarding thyroid issues and > problems that are labeled bipolar disorder and BPD. > > One of my docs posts info about this at his website...and has helped me > hook up to the docs doing the supraphysiologic thyroid research. > They have a program I really think highly of to help people track their > moods. > > Because of the hostile and aggressive climate that sometimes prevails > on this list, I've been reluctant to post here...particularly > information regarding work or researchers I have a high opinion of...but > wanted to share this info in case it may help other lurkers such as > myself...and hoping you might find it of interest. I have a very high > opinion of your efforts...and your willingness to tolerate > the often negative posts. You're a good man. > > Warm regards, > > > http://www.mhc.com/Algorithms/Depression/bpiadd.htm > <http://www.mhc.com/Algorithms/Depression/bpiadd.htm> > > Supraphysiologic thyroid treatment (i.e., to produce T4 levels 150% of > the upper limit of normal) has been successful in treating some cases of > highly refractory bipolar depression. > > *1: *Endocrine. <javascript:AL_get(this, 'jour', 'Endocrine.');> 2003 > Jul;21(2):153-8.Click here to read > <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/utils/fref.fcgi?PrId=3129 & itool=AbstractPlus\ -def & uid=12897379 & db=pubmed & url=http://www.humanapress.com/ArticleDetail.pasp?is\ sn=0969-711X & acode=ENDO:21:2:153 > <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/utils/fref.fcgi?PrId=3129 & itool=AbstractPlus\ -def & uid=12897379 & db=pubmed & url=http://www.humanapress.com/ArticleDetail.pasp?is\ sn=0969-711X & acode=ENDO:21:2:153>> > > Links <javascript:PopUpMenu2_Set(Menu12897379);> > > Antithyroid antibody-linked symptoms in borderline personality > disorder. > > *Geracioti TD Jr* > <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Geracioti\ %20TD%20Jr%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel\ ..Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus > <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Geracioti\ %20TD%20Jr%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel\ ..Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus>>, > *Kling MA* > <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Kling%20M\ A%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_R\ VAbstractPlus > <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Kling%20M\ A%22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_R\ VAbstractPlus>>, > *Post RM* > <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Post%20RM\ %22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RV\ AbstractPlus > <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Post%20RM\ %22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RV\ AbstractPlus>>, > *Gold PW* > <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Gold%20PW\ %22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RV\ AbstractPlus > <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Gold%20PW\ %22%5BAuthor%5D & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RV\ AbstractPlus>>. > > Clinical Neuroendocrinology, National Institute of Mental Health, > Bethesda, MD, USA. geracioti@... <mailto:geracioti%40med.va.gov> > > PMID: 12897379 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] > > > > > > >>I also am wondering what your thoughts are regarding supraphysiological > >>dosing of thyroid to treat bipolar disorder? > >> > >> > > > >That's a new one to me. I would not think bipolar and thyroid were > >directly connected, although thyroid status would probably affect the > >rate of cycling in a bipolar person. > > > >Chuck > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.19/1008 - Release Date: 9/14/2007 8:59 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 Chuck, The thyroid supplementation I receive, which is armour, is for mood stabilization. At the time I was placed on it by the doc I see, my TSH was around 3...it was before the change. I was dx'ed bipolar by an internist I first saw in 1997. He wanted to put me on depakote ....I was reluctant, but finally agreed because he thought it might lower my severe hypertension. I was taking Plendil, Cozaar, Microzide, atenolol...and running very high. The depakote made me very depressed. The internist believed the problem was that I hadn't reached therapeutic levels...but, after an episode of suicidal ideation, he decided to put me on Zoloft as well as increasing doses of Depakote. Was OK at 25mg of Zoloft daily, but he increased it to 50. Went manic...saw a psych nurse practitioner who changed the Zoloft to Paxil. Soon developed akathisia...and stopped the Paxil. Managed to get moved up on the psych waiting list and saw a psychiatrist...who took me off the 1500 mg daily of Depakote...then started various psych med cocktails. Eventually decided I was some sort of bipolar spectrum...probably bipolar 2 because I had no psychosis or hospitalizations. I understand there's a new dx, bipolar 3, for SSRI-induced hypomania. I've never been so crazy in all my life as I was on psych meds. It's taken me years to get *halfway* back to where I was before the SSRI's. On a lithium trial, I had symptoms very similar to Borderline Personality Disorder...hence my interest in the case study. I had the appropriate childhood experiences to justify having BPD... and a brother who ended his life on Father's Day in 1988...but managed to get by until way too much medication. Once heard a speaker at a lecture say that the paranoid schizophrenics really appreciate learning about BPD...finally a dx worse than paranoid schiz I'm probably getting much too off-topic here...but these issues are very important to me. Thank you, Chuck, for telling me about this group several years ago and for your kind and generous efforts to help. Somewhere I still have the " Alice in Wonderland " you posted to another group that was such a delight. Best thoughts, Best thoughts, Chuck B wrote: >Those are fairly new studies, still in the " preliminary " category, >although evidently promising. " Refractory " means that the usual lithium >related combinations with other drugs don't work. Refractory cases are >also commonly " rapid cycling, " which means more than four episodes per >year. So, this implies a subset of the more extreme bipolar cases for >which this approach works. It may be that this subset suffers from a >combination of conditions, one that sets up the bipolar and one >involving the thyroid axis. > >It definitely does not mean that bipolar symptoms should be added to > Shomon's list of hypoT symptoms. > >I have a friend that treats both bipolar and BPD, so I'll ask him if he >knows about this connection next time I see him. I have referred about >dozen students to him with these problems over the years. Are you being >treated for any of these conditions or know someone that is? If so, I >hope you all find relief soon. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 , Thanks for your post. It's not just the psychiatric drugs that have bad side effects. That is a major problem for many in the hospital. I have seen it several times with relatives, the side effects being worse than the disease. It means we all need to be pro-active with prescriptions. Don't rely on the doctor and the pharmacist to keep you out of trouble. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 I agree , thank you for all of the information. I am new so I don't know what hostile environment you are talking about but I can't imagine why anyone would be hostile when we are all struggling and the reason that we join these groups is so that we are not so alone and to learn from others........ thanks again charitylynn Re: Question for Chuck , Thanks. That is an interesting new connection for me. Those are fairly new studies, still in the " preliminary " category, although evidently promising. " Refractory " means that the usual lithium related combinations with other drugs don't work. Refractory cases are also commonly " rapid cycling, " which means more than four episodes per year. So, this implies a subset of the more extreme bipolar cases for which this approach works. It may be that this subset suffers from a combination of conditions, one that sets up the bipolar and one involving the thyroid axis. It definitely does not mean that bipolar symptoms should be added to Shomon's list of hypoT symptoms. I have a friend that treats both bipolar and BPD, so I'll ask him if he knows about this connection next time I see him. I have referred about dozen students to him with these problems over the years. Are you being treated for any of these conditions or know someone that is? If so, I hope you all find relief soon. Best, Chuck > Hi Chuck, > > I meant to send a URL in earlier...got tied up with stuff...and didn't > get around to looking it up till now. Apologies. > > The first URL discusses bipolar disorder and the use of supraphysiologic > dosing of thyroid. I think there's something to it. > > Allso including info about a very interesting paper regarding thyroid > antibody titers and borderline personality disorder. I'm very > interested in the work that's being done regarding thyroid issues and > problems that are labeled bipolar disorder and BPD. > > One of my docs posts info about this at his website...and has helped me > hook up to the docs doing the supraphysiologic thyroid research. > They have a program I really think highly of to help people track their > moods. > > Because of the hostile and aggressive climate that sometimes prevails > on this list, I've been reluctant to post here....particularly > information regarding work or researchers I have a high opinion of...but > wanted to share this info in case it may help other lurkers such as > myself...and hoping you might find it of interest. I have a very high > opinion of your efforts...and your willingness to tolerate > the often negative posts. You're a good man. > > Warm regards, > > > http://www.mhc. com/Algorithms/ Depression/ bpiadd.htm > <http://www.mhc. com/Algorithms/ Depression/ bpiadd.htm> > > Supraphysiologic thyroid treatment (i.e., to produce T4 levels 150% of > the upper limit of normal) has been successful in treating some cases of > highly refractory bipolar depression. > > *1: *Endocrine. <javascript: AL_get(this, 'jour', 'Endocrine.' );> 2003 > Jul;21(2):153- 8.Click here to read > <http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ entrez/utils/ fref.fcgi? PrId=3129 & itool=AbstractPl us-def & uid= 12897379 & db=pubmed & url=http: //www..humanapres s.com/ArticleDet ail.pasp? issn=0969- 711X & acode= ENDO:21:2: 153 > <http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ entrez/utils/ fref.fcgi? PrId=3129 & itool=AbstractPl us-def & uid= 12897379 & db=pubmed & url=http: //www.humanapres s.com/ArticleDet ail.pasp? issn=0969- 711X & acode= ENDO:21:2: 153>> > > Links <javascript: PopUpMenu2_ Set(Menu12897379 );> > > Antithyroid antibody-linked symptoms in borderline personality > disorder. > > *Geracioti TD Jr* > <http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Geraciot i%20TD%20Jr% 22%5BAuthor% 5D & itool= EntrezSystem2. PEntrez.Pubmed. Pubmed_ResultsPa nel.Pubmed_ RVAbstractPlus > <http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Geraciot i%20TD%20Jr% 22%5BAuthor% 5D & itool= EntrezSystem2. PEntrez.Pubmed. Pubmed_ResultsPa nel.Pubmed_ RVAbstractPlus>>, > *Kling MA* > <http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Kling% 20MA%22%5BAuthor %5D & itool= EntrezSystem2. PEntrez.Pubmed. Pubmed_ResultsPa nel.Pubmed_ RVAbstractPlus > <http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Kling% 20MA%22%5BAuthor %5D & itool= EntrezSystem2. PEntrez.Pubmed.. Pubmed_ResultsPa nel.Pubmed_ RVAbstractPlus>>, > *Post RM* > <http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Post% 20RM%22%5BAuthor %5D & itool= EntrezSystem2. PEntrez.Pubmed. Pubmed_ResultsPa nel.Pubmed_ RVAbstractPlus > <http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Post% 20RM%22%5BAuthor %5D & itool= EntrezSystem2. PEntrez.Pubmed. Pubmed_ResultsPa nel.Pubmed_ RVAbstractPlus>>, > *Gold PW* > <http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Gold% 20PW%22%5BAuthor %5D & itool= EntrezSystem2. PEntrez.Pubmed. Pubmed_ResultsPa nel.Pubmed_ RVAbstractPlus > <http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd=Search & Term=%22Gold% 20PW%22%5BAuthor %5D & itool= EntrezSystem2. PEntrez.Pubmed. Pubmed_ResultsPa nel.Pubmed_ RVAbstractPlus>>. > > Clinical Neuroendocrinology, National Institute of Mental Health, > Bethesda, MD, USA. geraciotimed (DOT) va.gov <mailto:geracioti% 40med.va. gov> > > PMID: 12897379 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] > > > > > > >>I also am wondering what your thoughts are regarding supraphysiological > >>dosing of thyroid to treat bipolar disorder? > >> > >> > > > >That's a new one to me.. I would not think bipolar and thyroid were > >directly connected, although thyroid status would probably affect the > >rate of cycling in a bipolar person. > > > >Chuck > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.19/1008 - Release Date: 9/14/2007 8:59 AM ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Games. http://get.games./proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 Chuck, Yes, I agree with you totally. The medication that really triggered my problems in the first place was a medication I was given for asthma-like attacks, Aerobid...a steroid inhaler. By the second day of using it, I was getting a tad too euphoric. The pharma folks were telling docs that steroid inhalers don't get into the bloodstream. When I tried to tell the doc that I feared the inhaler was making me manicy (I was aware I have an issue with getting manicy), he thought I was mistaken. It was the psychiatrist that enlightened him regarding the use of any type of steroids if one has a tendency toward bipolar spectrum disorders. I woke up this morning thinking about this list and the things that are said here. I tried to post about my experiences in the past, after a cardiac cath had been done when a naturopath doubled my thyroid dose without telling me. My observations were trounced by one member of this group. I used to be a nurse...spend countless hours reading medical-related information trying to understand biological sensitivity, because it seems that biosensitivity is an issue for me and, I fear, for my children and grandchildren. I wasn't offended by what was said, in response to my posts...but I am concerned. I belong to several thyroid-related lists. One of the lists that promotes self-medicating was started by three women, one of whom had heart health issues. She died at a rather young age. I did not see any questioning on that list regarding the possibility that the woman's self-medicating may have been a factor in her early death. My fear, when I see posts that all but insult anyone questioning the levels of armour, cortef, iodine that are sometimes promoted here, is that someone not well-educated enough to understand the possible dangers of self-medicating may not survive some of the advice given here. I have had to deal with tremendous anger toward Big Pharma and the medical community...I understand that when you have not received the care you need and feel that docs have totally failed you, you can easily become bitter and hostile. I also believe that there is a population of people who don't respond well to T4 only...who do need adrenal support...who may need other supplements. It's the global thinking that concerns me. I'm not sure that what I'm involved in now is topical for this group. I'm very excited about the program I'm involved in...and very pleased to have finally gotten to a place with my docs where I can get what I need from them. It wasn't easy. And, co-incidently enough, involves the use of Byetta. I wouldn't have made it here if I hadn't been willing to try to understand what doctors deal with... and how managed care and the current political environment are playing a role in health care delivery in this country. Dealing with me has been as much a struggle for them as it has been for me... maybe worse. (Forbes did a story on SSRIs that included my experience.) I have a clinician friend who is so pro-active about her health that she somewhat resembles a steamroller She sees a maverick doc who mostly gives her what she wants...but she's hit a bit of a wall recently. She's read about some research in Israel regarding use of what was a Meniere's med to treat obesity...betahistine. She wanted to try it...she has high fibrinogen levels and has read of the relationship between obesity and inflammation...she wants those fat cells decommissioned before they do her heart in. Betahistine is not approved here. I had to laugh when she told me about her visit with the PA who works with her doc. He tried to kindly explain to her that he has young children to support and get through college. She ordered the betahistine off the internet. I don't know if I'm making much sense here...but I do know that I am grateful for your voice in this group Chuck. Best thoughts, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 ....I think I speak for all in this group...when I say your observations are very welcome. After all, this helps all of us learn. But we do reserve the right to make our own observations ....on what we as individuals read here and while observing our own health on a day to day basis. I would not be here at all... if I hadn't been going downhill healthwise and looked up symptoms in all forums including Shoman's....I am soon going to be 68....and probably would not have made it there if I went by some medical advice. They were not even guessing what could possibly be going wrong. My friend is 11 yrs younger than myself....the one with the doctor and the health insurance. She had similar symptoms and now there docs are finally seeing something wrong with parathyroid. Her eyes have deteriorated to some pretty high correction. She has to wear contacts or eyeglasses constantly now. I still have 20/20 vision and my eye doc only recently told me I have no age related disease. Eye doctors are important....eyes are the window on health. I have no health insurance. About 6 yrs ago I fell while skiing....twisted my legs but didn't break anything. But this injury caused all sorts of health problems. I must have had some internal insult to some organs because I had stomach probs. Throwing up etc. Since there was no insurance I had no medical help recovering. I sat in my room in a chair night and day because lying down was intolerable. After 6 MOS I finally was able to walk....and I went to a gym to lift weights and became stronger. A few years ago I caught some sort of flu or who knows what was happening to me....I coughed forever until I happened on information in this group and others like it. I probably would have died from this....but not so....here I still am ....I can walk long distances....my legs do not swell and I DO NOT COUGH!! Hallelujah and yeah I have tested and decided what to take on my own. I am healthier than my 11 yr younger friend who has been running to doctors all of her life. Believe me I appreciate everyone on this group....you , can keep us grounded. One more short story. My son was a beautiful young man ....I noticed an unusual mood swinging even at a very young age....Not one Dr caught this.... I have deduced (in hind sight) that he had a thyroid/adrenal issue....if only I knew this before 2000. That year in November he died....I don't know if he took his own life or if someone murdered him. He was getting Marine Corp benefits after having testicular cancer. He was 21 when his testicle was removed in Okinawa after being flown there from the first Gulf War. 1999 he met a young woman who eventually said she was having his child....he signed as father to the baby (he was not)....but this woman wanted his money ....he was living 30 miles from me....so I only have his writing (everything always in hind sight) so I know only a little of what was going on and from his friends. The woman and her friends (who include sheriff deputies who are now in prison for drug dealing and molestation of teens girls) planned this and are guilty of murder no matter who pulled the trigger. You needed to know this because he was on the kind of meds you say you have been taking. Clonazipam, Risperidol .....his psychiatrist was being so kind to me....he allowed me to come to the Vet clinic (I am a vet also) I thought he was concerned about my well being....when again (in hind sight) I see he wanted to question me to see if I blamed him and the meds he prescribed. Lastly and please don't take this wrong. Chuck is a good man and a very smart one. But reread his posts. He is wrong in his approach to others on this list who have a right to their opinions on their own health. Plus their right to post these opinions. He negates that right being passive aggressive. And all of us feel it but we either don't reply or are agitated by it .....whether or not it is his intention to keep all of us out of the mix, have the site to himself... hmmm? I don't know what he is thinking but no one is absolutely right about everything I don't care how much education he has. Again, , Chuck is not your only friend here....we all care and if you don't mind our un formally educated opinions....we would like to be included in your posts. Sincerely open to anything, -- Re: Question for Chuck Chuck, Yes, I agree with you totally. The medication that really triggered my problems in the first place was a medication I was given for asthma-like attacks, Aerobid...a steroid inhaler. By the second day of using it, I was getting a tad too euphoric. The pharma folks were telling docs that steroid inhalers don't get into the bloodstream. When I woke up this morning thinking about this list and the things that are said here. I tried to post about my experiences in the past, after a cardiac cath had been done when a naturopath doubled my thyroid Issues. She died at a rather young age. I did not see any questioning on That list regarding the possibility that the woman's self-medicating may have been a factor in her early death. My fear, when I see posts that all but insult anyone questioning the levels of armour, cortef, iodine that are sometimes promoted here, is that someone not well-educated enough to understand the possible dangers of self-medicating may not survive some of the advice given here. I have had to deal with tremendous anger toward Big Pharma and the medical community...I understand that when you have not received the care you need and feel that docs have totally failed you, you can easily become bitter and hostile. I also believe that there is a population of People who don't respond well to T4 only...who do need adrenal support...who may need other supplements. It's the global thinking that concerns me. Best thoughts, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 I am sorry you and have suffered so much, . I guess most of us have horror stories. I think Chuck expresses a male perspective. It sometimes really surprises me. I think he is intellectually honest and believes in the " science " that doesn't serve a lot of us so well. big hug Gracia ....I think I speak for all in this group...when I say your observations are very welcome. After all, this helps all of us learn. But we do reserve the right to make our own observations ....on what we as individuals read here and while observing our own health on a day to day basis. I would not be here at all... if I hadn't been going downhill healthwise and looked up symptoms in all forums including Shoman's....I am soon going to be 68....and probably would not have made it there if I went by some medical advice. They were not even guessing what could possibly be going wrong. Recent Activity a.. 11New Members Visit Your Group Cancer Resources on Find answers, help and support. Healthy Cooking on A place for parents to share their ideas. Food Lovers Real Food Group on find out more. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 Gracia, I appreciate the sentiment you express...but I do disagree with you on a lot of things. It isn't just allopathic medicine that can be a problem. I truly believe that you say the things you do because you deeply believe in what you're doing and truly want to help others... but sometimes when I read your posts I cringe. Not every 'body' can tolerate the levels of thyroid, adrenal and iodine supplementation that you suggest. I know your heart is in the right place. FWIW...your post regarding Szent-Gyorgi...I went to GOOGLE to try to find more info about him and iodine...one of the hits was a paper he wrote...co-authored by Dr.Irvin Isenberg. I attended an introductory molecular biology course taught by Dr. Isenberg in winter term 1983. He spent quite a bit of time teaching the class how to read science papers. I loved him dearly. He was passionate about truth...and intellectual honesty. I'm sure would have encouraged you to fight for what you believe is right. Best thoughts, Gracia wrote: > I am sorry you and have suffered so much, . I guess most of us have horror stories. > I think Chuck expresses a male perspective. It sometimes really surprises me. I think he is intellectually honest and believes in the " science " that doesn't serve a lot of us so well. > big hug > Gracia > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 Thank you, , for your kind thoughts. My heart goes out to you ....losing a son has to be one of the most difficult things one could ever deal with. I'm not sure how much to say here...will think on it more...but regarding Chuck. I've been on this list for several years. I've been very impressed with his patience and tolerance of some of the comments made here. If people on the list just expressed their opinions on their own helath, I would feel differently than I do... but what I've seen lately is several attacks against Chuck by people who make global comments that indicate they don't understand the possible consequences of their advice...and an intolerant attitude toward anyone who disagrees with them. My concern is that one of these days the wrong person, with an undiagnosed heart problem or other health issue, might read the advice here...by some of the proponents of self-medicating with high doses of thyroid and adrenal meds...floow it...and end up dead. Best thoughts, > >Lastly and please don't take this wrong. Chuck is a good man and a very >smart one. But reread his posts. He is wrong in his approach to others on >this list who have a right to their opinions on their own health. Plus >their right to post these opinions. > >He negates that right being passive aggressive. And all of us feel it but >we either don't reply or are agitated by it .....whether or not it is his >intention to keep all of us out of the mix, have the site to himself... >hmmm? I don't know what he is thinking but no one is absolutely right >about everything I don't care how much education he has. > >Again, , Chuck is not your only friend here....we all care and if you >don't mind our un formally educated opinions....we would like to be included >in your posts. > >Sincerely open to anything, > >` > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 Hi, . You're not the only one concerned about the blanket " prescriptions " that are too often passed out here. It's great that someone who could not get effective treatment through the usual channels has been able to self-treat and obtain relief. It's not so clear why some would put out blanket recommendations for dosages of chemicals or medications far higher than the manufacturer recommends. Given that we are all individuals and some will respond far differently than will another to many things it seems somewhat careless [to say the least] to recommend something for which there is a great deal of credible data which indicates it may be harmful. > > Re: Question for Chuck > <hypothyroidism/message/31216;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZHBqN20\ 3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzEyMTYEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4OTk4MjUwNg--> > > > > Posted by: " Hugo " seashell@... > <mailto:seashell@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Question%20for%20Chuck> > kaiwaina <kaiwaina> > > > Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:14 am (PST) > > Chuck, > > Yes, I agree with you totally. The medication that really triggered > my problems in the first place was a medication I was given for > asthma-like attacks, Aerobid...a steroid inhaler. By the second day of > using it, I was getting a tad too euphoric. The pharma folks were > telling docs that steroid inhalers don't get into the bloodstream. When > I tried to tell the doc that I feared the inhaler > was making me manicy (I was aware I have an issue with getting manicy), > he thought I was mistaken. It was the psychiatrist that > enlightened him regarding the use of any type of steroids if one has > a tendency toward bipolar spectrum disorders. > > I woke up this morning thinking about this list and the things that are > said here. I tried to post about my experiences in the past, > after a cardiac cath had been done when a naturopath doubled my thyroid > dose without telling me. My observations were trounced by > one member of this group. I used to be a nurse...spend countless hours > reading medical-related information trying to understand biological > sensitivity, because it seems that biosensitivity is an issue for me > and, I fear, for my children and grandchildren. I wasn't offended by > what was said, in response to my posts...but I am concerned. I belong to > several thyroid-related lists. One of the lists that promotes > self-medicating was started by three women, one of whom had heart health > issues. She died at a rather young age. I did not see any questioning on > that list regarding the possibility that the woman's self-medicating may > have been a factor in her early death. My fear, when I see posts that > all but insult anyone questioning the levels of armour, cortef, iodine > that are sometimes promoted here, is that someone not well-educated > enough to understand the possible dangers of self-medicating may not > survive some of the advice given here. > > I have had to deal with tremendous anger toward Big Pharma and the > medical community... > I understand that when you have not received the > care you need and feel that docs have totally failed you, you can easily > become bitter and hostile. I also believe that there is a population of > people who don't respond well to T4 only...who do need adrenal > support...who may need other supplements. It's the global thinking that > concerns me. > > I'm not sure that what I'm involved in now is topical for this group. > I'm very excited about the program I'm involved in...and very > pleased to have finally gotten to a place with my docs where I can get > what I need from them. It wasn't easy. And, co-incidently enough, > involves the use of Byetta. I wouldn't have made it here if I hadn't > been willing to try to understand what doctors deal with... > and how managed care and the current political environment are playing a > role in health care delivery in this country. Dealing with me has been > as much a struggle for them as it has been for me... > maybe worse. (Forbes did a story on SSRIs that included my experience.) > > I have a clinician friend who is so pro-active about her health that she > somewhat resembles a steamroller She sees a maverick doc who mostly > gives her what she wants...but she's hit a bit of a wall recently. She's > read about some research in Israel regarding use of what was a Meniere's > med to treat obesity...betahistine. She wanted to try it...she has high > fibrinogen levels and has read of the relationship between obesity and > inflammation...she wants those fat cells decommissioned before they do > her heart in. Betahistine is not approved here. I had to laugh when she > told me about her visit with the PA who works with her doc. He tried to > kindly explain to her that he has young children to support and get > through college. She ordered the betahistine off the internet. > > I don't know if I'm making much sense here...but I do know that I am > grateful for your voice in this group Chuck. > > Best thoughts, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 Hi, . You're right that everyone has a right to their opinion. But I certainly have never seen ANY statement by Chuck that could reasonably be considered aggressive, passive or otherwise. Chuck is, however, a scientist. He therefore speaks as a scientist. The factual and unemotional way of reacting to inaccurate statements may well be off-putting to someone not familiar with the approach of scientists to facts and fallacies. That being said, if you think Chuck is passive/aggressive then you probably think my statements re: Hulda [and similar quack nut cases] far beyond passive-aggressive. So be it. But saying a pig will fly isn't going to gain it a lot of air miles; and I kind of tend to call a spade a spade. Regards, > > Re: Question for Chuck > <hypothyroidism/message/31223;_ylc=X3oDMTJxM3JhdWd\ xBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzEyMjMEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4OTk4MjUwNg--> > > > > Posted by: " " ronicamelian@... > <mailto:ronicamelian@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Question%20for%20Chuck> > witchin39 <witchin39> > > > Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:15 pm (PST) > > ....I think I speak for all in this group...when I say your > observations are very welcome. After all, this helps all of us learn. > > But we do reserve the right to make our own observations ....on what we as > individuals read here and while observing our own health on a day to day > basis. > > I would not be here at all... if I hadn't been going downhill > healthwise and > looked up symptoms in all forums including Shoman's.... > I am soon going > to be 68....and probably would not have made it there if I went by some > medical advice. They were not even guessing what could possibly be going > wrong. > > My friend is 11 yrs younger than myself....the one with the doctor and the > health insurance. She had similar symptoms and now there docs are finally > seeing something wrong with parathyroid. > > Her eyes have deteriorated to some pretty high correction. She has to wear > contacts or eyeglasses constantly now. I still have 20/20 vision and > my eye > doc only recently told me I have no age related disease. Eye doctors are > important....eyes are the window on health. > > I have no health insurance. About 6 yrs ago I fell while skiing....twisted > my legs but didn't break anything. But this injury caused all sorts of > health problems. I must have had some internal insult to some organs > because I had stomach probs. Throwing up etc. > > Since there was no insurance I had no medical help recovering. I sat in my > room in a chair night and day because lying down was intolerable. After 6 > MOS I finally was able to walk....and I went to a gym to lift weights and > became stronger. > > A few years ago I caught some sort of flu or who knows what was > happening to > me....I coughed forever until I happened on information in this group and > others like it. > > I probably would have died from this....but not so....here I still am > ....I > can walk long distances....my legs do not swell and I DO NOT COUGH!! > Hallelujah and yeah I have tested and decided what to take on my own. I am > healthier than my 11 yr younger friend who has been running to doctors all > of her life. > > Believe me I appreciate everyone on this group....you , can keep us > grounded. > > One more short story. My son was a beautiful young man ....I noticed an > unusual mood swinging even at a very young age....Not one Dr caught > this.... > I have deduced (in hind sight) that he had a thyroid/adrenal issue....if > only I knew this before 2000. > > That year in November he died....I don't know if he took his own life > or if > someone murdered him. He was getting Marine Corp benefits after having > testicular cancer. He was 21 when his testicle was removed in Okinawa > after > being flown there from the first Gulf War. > > 1999 he met a young woman who eventually said she was having his > child....he > signed as father to the baby (he was not)....but this woman wanted his > money > ...he was living 30 miles from me....so I only have his writing > (everything > always in hind sight) so I know only a little of what was going on and > from > his friends. > > The woman and her friends (who include sheriff deputies who are now in > prison for drug dealing and molestation of teens girls) planned this and > are guilty of murder no matter who pulled the trigger. > > You needed to know this because he was on the kind of meds you say you > have > been taking. Clonazipam, Risperidol .....his psychiatrist was being so > kind > to me....he allowed me to come to the Vet clinic (I am a vet also) I > thought > he was concerned about my well being....when again (in hind sight) I > see he > wanted to question me to see if I blamed him and the meds he prescribed. > > Lastly and please don't take this wrong. Chuck is a good man and a very > smart one. But reread his posts. He is wrong in his approach to others on > this list who have a right to their opinions on their own health. Plus > their right to post these opinions. > > He negates that right being passive aggressive. And all of us feel it but > we either don't reply or are agitated by it .....whether or not it is his > intention to keep all of us out of the mix, have the site to himself... > hmmm? I don't know what he is thinking but no one is absolutely right > about everything I don't care how much education he has. > > Again, , Chuck is not your only friend here....we all care and if you > don't mind our un formally educated opinions....we would like to be > included > in your posts. > > Sincerely open to anything, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 Our " advice " is NOT a substitute for a persons doctors remendations. We usually refer to the STTM site then give our " opinions " of what we think they SHOULD do. -- Re: Question for Chuck Thank you, , for your kind thoughts. My heart goes out to you .....losing a son has to be one of the most difficult things one could ever deal with. I'm not sure how much to say here...will think on it more...but regarding Chuck. I've been on this list for several years. I've been very impressed with his patience and tolerance of some of the comments made here. If people on the list just expressed their opinions on their own helath, I would feel differently than I do... but what I've seen lately is several attacks against Chuck by people who make global comments that indicate they don't understand the possible consequences of their advice...and an intolerant attitude toward anyone Who disagrees with them. My concern is that one of these days the wrong person, with an undiagnosed heart problem or other health issue, might read the advice here...by some of the proponents of self-medicating with high doses of thyroid and adrenal meds...floow it...and end up dead. Best thoughts, > >Lastly and please don't take this wrong. Chuck is a good man and a very >smart one. But reread his posts. He is wrong in his approach to others on >this list who have a right to their opinions on their own health. Plus >their right to post these opinions. > >He negates that right being passive aggressive. And all of us feel it but >we either don't reply or are agitated by it .....whether or not it is his >intention to keep all of us out of the mix, have the site to himself... >hmmm? I don't know what he is thinking but no one is absolutely right >about everything I don't care how much education he has. > >Again, , Chuck is not your only friend here....we all care and if you >don't mind our un formally educated opinions....we would like to be included >in your posts. > >Sincerely open to anything, > >` > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 , You wrote about me: > ... He is wrong in his approach to others on > this list who have a right to their opinions on their own health. Plus > their right to post these opinions.... I guess I am not entitled to my own opinion let alone the right to express it. I have never opposed anyone's right to post here. > >...He negates that right being passive aggressive. And all of us feel it but > we either don't reply or are agitated by it .....whether or not it is his > intention to keep all of us out of the mix, have the site to himself... > hmmm? I find it curious that you would slander me in a post addressed to someone else, by calling me passive aggressive. As for my dominating the list, the last full month, August, had 664 posts. Of those I had 80, including the FAQ. That indicates active participation, but by no means dominance. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 (((((((((((((((((((((((((Chuck)))))))))))))))))))))))))))) I thought you could use that! Blessings! Char ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 LOL we have all been to docs who sounded just like Chuck and were dead wrong, and we were almost dead b/c of it. not meaning to bash Chuck. Gracia Hi, . You're right that everyone has a right to their opinion. But I certainly have never seen ANY statement by Chuck that could reasonably be considered aggressive, passive or otherwise. Chuck is, however, a scientist. He therefore speaks as a scientist. The factual and unemotional way of reacting to inaccurate statements may well be off-putting to someone not familiar with the approach of scientists to facts and fallacies. That being said, if you think Chuck is passive/aggressive then you probably think my statements re: Hulda [and similar quack nut cases] far beyond passive-aggressive. So be it. But saying a pig will fly isn't going to gain it a lot of air miles; and I kind of tend to call a spade a spade. Regards, > > Re: Question for Chuck > <hypothyroidism/message/31223;_ylc=X3oDMTJxM3JhdWd\ xBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzEyMjMEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4OTk4MjUwNg--> > > > > Posted by: " " ronicamelian@... > <mailto:ronicamelian@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Question%20for%20Chuck> > witchin39 <witchin39> > > > Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:15 pm (PST) > > ....I think I speak for all in this group...when I say your > observations are very welcome. After all, this helps all of us learn. > > But we do reserve the right to make our own observations ....on what we as > individuals read here and while observing our own health on a day to day > basis. > > I would not be here at all... if I hadn't been going downhill > healthwise and > looked up symptoms in all forums including Shoman's.... > I am soon going > to be 68....and probably would not have made it there if I went by some > medical advice. They were not even guessing what could possibly be going > wrong. > > My friend is 11 yrs younger than myself....the one with the doctor and the > health insurance. She had similar symptoms and now there docs are finally > seeing something wrong with parathyroid. > > Her eyes have deteriorated to some pretty high correction. She has to wear > contacts or eyeglasses constantly now. I still have 20/20 vision and > my eye > doc only recently told me I have no age related disease. Eye doctors are > important....eyes are the window on health. > > I have no health insurance. About 6 yrs ago I fell while skiing....twisted > my legs but didn't break anything. But this injury caused all sorts of > health problems. I must have had some internal insult to some organs > because I had stomach probs. Throwing up etc. > > Since there was no insurance I had no medical help recovering. I sat in my > room in a chair night and day because lying down was intolerable. After 6 > MOS I finally was able to walk....and I went to a gym to lift weights and > became stronger. > > A few years ago I caught some sort of flu or who knows what was > happening to > me....I coughed forever until I happened on information in this group and > others like it. > > I probably would have died from this....but not so....here I still am > ....I > can walk long distances....my legs do not swell and I DO NOT COUGH!! > Hallelujah and yeah I have tested and decided what to take on my own. I am > healthier than my 11 yr younger friend who has been running to doctors all > of her life. > > Believe me I appreciate everyone on this group....you , can keep us > grounded. > > One more short story. My son was a beautiful young man ....I noticed an > unusual mood swinging even at a very young age....Not one Dr caught > this.... > I have deduced (in hind sight) that he had a thyroid/adrenal issue....if > only I knew this before 2000. > > That year in November he died....I don't know if he took his own life > or if > someone murdered him. He was getting Marine Corp benefits after having > testicular cancer. He was 21 when his testicle was removed in Okinawa > after > being flown there from the first Gulf War. > > 1999 he met a young woman who eventually said she was having his > child....he > signed as father to the baby (he was not)....but this woman wanted his > money > ...he was living 30 miles from me....so I only have his writing > (everything > always in hind sight) so I know only a little of what was going on and > from > his friends. > > The woman and her friends (who include sheriff deputies who are now in > prison for drug dealing and molestation of teens girls) planned this and > are guilty of murder no matter who pulled the trigger. > > You needed to know this because he was on the kind of meds you say you > have > been taking. Clonazipam, Risperidol .....his psychiatrist was being so > kind > to me....he allowed me to come to the Vet clinic (I am a vet also) I > thought > he was concerned about my well being....when again (in hind sight) I > see he > wanted to question me to see if I blamed him and the meds he prescribed. > > Lastly and please don't take this wrong. Chuck is a good man and a very > smart one. But reread his posts. He is wrong in his approach to others on > this list who have a right to their opinions on their own health. Plus > their right to post these opinions. > > He negates that right being passive aggressive. And all of us feel it but > we either don't reply or are agitated by it .....whether or not it is his > intention to keep all of us out of the mix, have the site to himself... > hmmm? I don't know what he is thinking but no one is absolutely right > about everything I don't care how much education he has. > > Again, , Chuck is not your only friend here....we all care and if you > don't mind our un formally educated opinions....we would like to be > included > in your posts. > > Sincerely open to anything, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 I was near death when I got my first computer with a credit card, and began to figure out what was wrong with me. What kept me going was anger---I was being murdered. It took me several years to figure out that I needed more than Armour. I had to figure it out all by myself with the help of books and internet. If I would have known how hard it was to do, I wouldn't have done it. I am just passing on to you what I learned, so you don't have to spend years like I did. One thing I am certain of---sick ppl do not do well on tiny doses, they need enough meds. If you ever try these things you will see how great they work. That is really interesting about Isenberg. I hold the iodine docs in high esteem. Gracia Gracia, I appreciate the sentiment you express...but I do disagree with you on a lot of things. It isn't just allopathic medicine that can be a problem. I truly believe that you say the things you do because you deeply believe in what you're doing and truly want to help others... but sometimes when I read your posts I cringe. Not every 'body' can tolerate the levels of thyroid, adrenal and iodine supplementation that you suggest. I know your heart is in the right place. FWIW...your post regarding Szent-Gyorgi...I went to GOOGLE to try to find more info about him and iodine...one of the hits was a paper he wrote...co-authored by Dr.Irvin Isenberg. I attended an introductory molecular biology course taught by Dr. Isenberg in winter term 1983. He spent quite a bit of time teaching the class how to read science papers. I loved him dearly. He was passionate about truth...and intellectual honesty. I'm sure would have encouraged you to fight for what you believe is right. Best thoughts, Recent Activity a.. 11New Members Visit Your Group Get cancer support Connect w/ others find help & share Healthy Eating A resource for families on how to eat healthy Real Food Group Share recipes and favorite meals. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 I know I certainly have. No, not bashing anyone ...simply disagreeing. -- Re: Re: Question for Chuck LOL we have all been to docs who sounded just like Chuck and were dead wrong, and we were almost dead b/c of it. not meaning to bash Chuck. Gracia Hi, . You're right that everyone has a right to their opinion. But I certainly have never seen ANY statement by Chuck that could reasonably be considered aggressive, passive or otherwise. Chuck is, however, a scientist. He therefore speaks as a scientist. The factual and unemotional way of reacting to inaccurate statements may well be off-putting to someone not familiar with the approach of scientists to facts and fallacies. That being said, if you think Chuck is passive/aggressive then you probably think my statements re: Hulda [and similar quack nut cases] far beyond passive-aggressive. So be it. But saying a pig will fly isn't going to gain it a lot of air miles; and I kind of tend to call a spade a spade. Regards, > > Re: Question for Chuck > <hypothyroidism/message/31223 _ylc=X3oDMTJxM3JhdWdxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEw DIEbXNnSWQDMzEyMjMEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4OTk4MjUwNg--> > > > > Posted by: " " ronicamelian@... > <mailto:ronicamelian@hotmail com?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Question%20for%20Chuck> > witchin39 <witchin39> > > > Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:15 pm (PST) > > ....I think I speak for all in this group...when I say your > observations are very welcome. After all, this helps all of us learn. > > But we do reserve the right to make our own observations ....on what we as > individuals read here and while observing our own health on a day to day > basis. > > I would not be here at all... if I hadn't been going downhill > healthwise and > looked up symptoms in all forums including Shoman's.... > I am soon going > to be 68....and probably would not have made it there if I went by some > medical advice. They were not even guessing what could possibly be going > wrong. > > My friend is 11 yrs younger than myself....the one with the doctor and the > health insurance. She had similar symptoms and now there docs are finally > seeing something wrong with parathyroid. > > Her eyes have deteriorated to some pretty high correction. She has to wear > contacts or eyeglasses constantly now. I still have 20/20 vision and > my eye > doc only recently told me I have no age related disease. Eye doctors are > important....eyes are the window on health. > > I have no health insurance. About 6 yrs ago I fell while skiing....twisted > my legs but didn't break anything. But this injury caused all sorts of > health problems. I must have had some internal insult to some organs > because I had stomach probs. Throwing up etc. > > Since there was no insurance I had no medical help recovering. I sat in my > room in a chair night and day because lying down was intolerable. After 6 > MOS I finally was able to walk....and I went to a gym to lift weights and > became stronger. > > A few years ago I caught some sort of flu or who knows what was > happening to > me....I coughed forever until I happened on information in this group and > others like it. > > I probably would have died from this....but not so....here I still am > ....I > can walk long distances....my legs do not swell and I DO NOT COUGH!! > Hallelujah and yeah I have tested and decided what to take on my own. I am > healthier than my 11 yr younger friend who has been running to doctors all > of her life. > > Believe me I appreciate everyone on this group....you , can keep us > grounded. > > One more short story. My son was a beautiful young man ....I noticed an > unusual mood swinging even at a very young age....Not one Dr caught > this.... > I have deduced (in hind sight) that he had a thyroid/adrenal issue....if > only I knew this before 2000. > > That year in November he died....I don't know if he took his own life > or if > someone murdered him. He was getting Marine Corp benefits after having > testicular cancer. He was 21 when his testicle was removed in Okinawa > after > being flown there from the first Gulf War. > > 1999 he met a young woman who eventually said she was having his > child....he > signed as father to the baby (he was not)....but this woman wanted his > money > ...he was living 30 miles from me....so I only have his writing > (everything > always in hind sight) so I know only a little of what was going on and > from > his friends. > > The woman and her friends (who include sheriff deputies who are now in > prison for drug dealing and molestation of teens girls) planned this and > are guilty of murder no matter who pulled the trigger. > > You needed to know this because he was on the kind of meds you say you > have > been taking. Clonazipam, Risperidol .....his psychiatrist was being so > kind > to me....he allowed me to come to the Vet clinic (I am a vet also) I > thought > he was concerned about my well being....when again (in hind sight) I > see he > wanted to question me to see if I blamed him and the meds he prescribed. > > Lastly and please don't take this wrong. Chuck is a good man and a very > smart one. But reread his posts. He is wrong in his approach to others on > this list who have a right to their opinions on their own health. Plus > their right to post these opinions. > > He negates that right being passive aggressive. And all of us feel it but > we either don't reply or are agitated by it .....whether or not it is his > intention to keep all of us out of the mix, have the site to himself... > hmmm? I don't know what he is thinking but no one is absolutely right > about everything I don't care how much education he has. > > Again, , Chuck is not your only friend here....we all care and if you > don't mind our un formally educated opinions....we would like to be > included > in your posts. > > Sincerely open to anything, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 Gracia, I don't know how to communicate with you. I am really impressed with what you have said in this message. What is it that you want from me? I have a reputation for non-compliance. FWIW...after a health crisis in May of 2006, which my internist couldn't seem to deal with emotionally...he has issues...I asked to see a second internist in the practice, who had some expertise in a health care problem I have...then asked to see a nurse practitioner who I knew was a sharp cookie. She was very helpful. Along the way, I whad a conversation, regarding a course of treatment that I disagreed with. When my objections were questioned, I explained why I felt as I do. I asked this provider, " When I am talking with healthcare providers, am I supposed to pretend that I didn't read an interview with Barbara Starfield in which she stated that while JAMA published the article claiming medical error is the third-leading cause of death in this country, she felt that because physician error is vastly under-reported and that cause of death is often attributed to the illness being treated rather than the treatment itself, she believes medical error is the leading cause of death " . It would take a lot of messages to explain what I've been trying to do since Novemeber 1887. It's a very long story. In some ways, you and I are fighting the battle. I use a different approach...when I'm able to. When I first starting seeing the psych I told him that I needed to ask him a very important question...that the future of our physician/patient relationship depended on his answer... " How many patients does a doctor get to 'accidently' kill before someone starts asking question? " . After he picked himself off the floor, he gave me an answer I respected. To the best of my ability, I try to treat physicians as human beings, with respect. I'm not always successful at that...and sometimes I'm sure I have no tongue left whatsoever from biting it. It isn't easy for docs. One of the sweeter funny moments with my psych...I was in his office railing away about something or other...finally just told him " Tell me what you want me to do so I can just get out of here " ...to which he responded, with so much weariness, " I wouldn't presume to try to tell you what to do... I merely make suggestions " . That was when I realized how tiring it must be for caring docs. I am well aware of the shortcomings of the medical profession. I am also well aware of the horrible soul-wrenching issues facing caring physicians. Gracia wrote: > > I was near death when I got my first computer with a credit card, and began to figure out what was wrong with me. What kept me going was anger---I was being murdered. It took me several years to figure out that I needed more than Armour. I had to figure it out all by myself with the help of books and internet. If I would have known how hard it was to do, I wouldn't have done it. > I am just passing on to you what I learned, so you don't have to spend years like I did. One thing I am certain of---sick ppl do not do well on tiny doses, they need enough meds. If you ever try these things you will see how great they work. > That is really interesting about Isenberg. I hold the iodine docs in high esteem. > Gracia > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 The doctors who are so often slandered on this list as being ignorant and stupid [or worse] are in fact on average much more intelligent and well educated than the average of those doing the slandering. That does not negate the fact that some percentage of patients do in fact receive utterly horrible, even fatal, health care. > > Re: Question for Chuck > <hypothyroidism/message/31266;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNDBwZzk\ xBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzEyNjYEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE5MDAyMDg5NQ--> > > > > Posted by: " Gracia " circe@... > <mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Question%20for%20Chuck> > graciabee <graciabee> > > > Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:26 pm (PST) > > > LOL > we have all been to docs who sounded just like Chuck and were dead > wrong, and we were almost dead b/c of it. > not meaning to bash Chuck. > Gracia > > Hi, . You're right that everyone has a right to their opinion. > But I certainly have never seen ANY statement by Chuck that could > reasonably be considered aggressive, passive or otherwise. > > Chuck is, however, a scientist. He therefore speaks as a scientist. > The factual and unemotional way of reacting to inaccurate statements may > well be off-putting to someone not familiar with the approach of > scientists to facts and fallacies. > > That being said, if you think Chuck is passive/aggressive then you > probably think my statements re: Hulda [and similar quack nut > cases] far beyond passive-aggressive. So be it. But saying a pig will > fly isn't going to gain it a lot of air miles; and I kind of tend to > call a spade a spade. > > Regards, > > > > > > Re: Question for Chuck > > > <hypothyroidism/message/31223;_ylc=X3oDMTJxM3JhdWd\ xBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzEyMjMEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4OTk4MjUwNg-- > <hypothyroidism/message/31223;_ylc=X3oDMTJxM3JhdWd\ xBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzEyMjMEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4OTk4MjUwNg-->> > > > > > > > > Posted by: " " ronicamelian@... > <mailto:ronicamelian%40hotmail.com> > > <mailto:ronicamelian@... > <mailto:ronicamelian%40hotmail.com>?Subject=%20Re% > 3A%20Question%20for%20Chuck> > > witchin39 <witchin39 > <witchin39>> > > > > > > Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:15 pm (PST) > > > > ....I think I speak for all in this group...when I say your > > observations are very welcome. After all, this helps all of us learn. > > > > But we do reserve the right to make our own observations ....on what > we as > > individuals read here and while observing our own health on a day to day > > basis. > > > > I would not be here at all... if I hadn't been going downhill > > healthwise and > > looked up symptoms in all forums including Shoman's.... > > I am soon going > > to be 68....and probably would not have made it there if I went by some > > medical advice. They were not even guessing what could possibly be going > > wrong. > > > > My friend is 11 yrs younger than myself....the one with the doctor > and the > > health insurance. She had similar symptoms and now there docs are > finally > > seeing something wrong with parathyroid. > > > > Her eyes have deteriorated to some pretty high correction. She has > to wear > > contacts or eyeglasses constantly now. I still have 20/20 vision and > > my eye > > doc only recently told me I have no age related disease. Eye doctors are > > important....eyes are the window on health. > > > > I have no health insurance. About 6 yrs ago I fell while > skiing....twisted > > my legs but didn't break anything. But this injury caused all sorts of > > health problems. I must have had some internal insult to some organs > > because I had stomach probs. Throwing up etc. > > > > Since there was no insurance I had no medical help recovering. I sat > in my > > room in a chair night and day because lying down was intolerable. > After 6 > > MOS I finally was able to walk....and I went to a gym to lift > weights and > > became stronger. > > > > A few years ago I caught some sort of flu or who knows what was > > happening to > > me....I coughed forever until I happened on information in this > group and > > others like it. > > > > I probably would have died from this....but not so....here I still am > > ....I > > can walk long distances....my legs do not swell and I DO NOT COUGH!! > > Hallelujah and yeah I have tested and decided what to take on my > own. I am > > healthier than my 11 yr younger friend who has been running to > doctors all > > of her life. > > > > Believe me I appreciate everyone on this group....you , can keep us > > grounded. > > > > One more short story. My son was a beautiful young man ....I noticed an > > unusual mood swinging even at a very young age....Not one Dr caught > > this.... > > I have deduced (in hind sight) that he had a thyroid/adrenal issue....if > > only I knew this before 2000. > > > > That year in November he died....I don't know if he took his own life > > or if > > someone murdered him. He was getting Marine Corp benefits after having > > testicular cancer. He was 21 when his testicle was removed in Okinawa > > after > > being flown there from the first Gulf War. > > > > 1999 he met a young woman who eventually said she was having his > > child....he > > signed as father to the baby (he was not)....but this woman wanted his > > money > > ...he was living 30 miles from me....so I only have his writing > > (everything > > always in hind sight) so I know only a little of what was going on and > > from > > his friends. > > > > The woman and her friends (who include sheriff deputies who are now in > > prison for drug dealing and molestation of teens girls) planned this and > > are guilty of murder no matter who pulled the trigger. > > > > You needed to know this because he was on the kind of meds you say you > > have > > been taking. Clonazipam, Risperidol .....his psychiatrist was being so > > kind > > to me....he allowed me to come to the Vet clinic (I am a vet also) I > > thought > > he was concerned about my well being....when again (in hind sight) I > > see he > > wanted to question me to see if I blamed him and the meds he prescribed. > > > > Lastly and please don't take this wrong. Chuck is a good man and a very > > smart one. But reread his posts. He is wrong in his approach to > others on > > this list who have a right to their opinions on their own health. Plus > > their right to post these opinions. > > > > He negates that right being passive aggressive. And all of us feel > it but > > we either don't reply or are agitated by it .....whether or not it > is his > > intention to keep all of us out of the mix, have the site to himself... > > hmmm? I don't know what he is thinking but no one is absolutely right > > about everything I don't care how much education he has. > > > > Again, , Chuck is not your only friend here....we all care and > if you > > don't mind our un formally educated opinions....we would like to be > > included > > in your posts. > > > > Sincerely open to anything, > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 Hey Chuck please keep posting at your same rate. When I log on I first look for threads of interest, and then look for posts from you. Your posts are usually not off topic, concise and to the point, and learn have some interesting scientific fact (such as the chlorine statement). So, please know that others of us on the list enjoy learning from your experience. Sherry > > , > > You wrote about me: > > > ... He is wrong in his approach to others on > > this list who have a right to their opinions on their own health. Plus > > their right to post these opinions.... > > I guess I am not entitled to my own opinion let alone the right to > express it. I have never opposed anyone's right to post here. > > > > >...He negates that right being passive aggressive. And all of us feel it but > > we either don't reply or are agitated by it .....whether or not it is his > > intention to keep all of us out of the mix, have the site to himself... > > hmmm? > > I find it curious that you would slander me in a post addressed to > someone else, by calling me passive aggressive. As for my dominating the > list, the last full month, August, had 664 posts. Of those I had 80, > including the FAQ. That indicates active participation, but by no means > dominance. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 I think its their " education " that gets some of us in trouble -- Re: Question for Chuck The doctors who are so often slandered on this list as being ignorant and stupid [or worse] are in fact on average much more intelligent and well educated than the average of those doing the slandering. That does not negate the fact that some percentage of patients do in fact receive utterly horrible, even fatal, health care. > > Re: Question for Chuck > <hypothyroidism/message/31266 _ylc=X3oDMTJxNDBwZzkxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEw DIEbXNnSWQDMzEyNjYEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE5MDAyMDg5NQ--> > > > > Posted by: " Gracia " circe@... > <mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Question%20for%20Chuck> > graciabee <graciabee> > > > Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:26 pm (PST) > > > LOL > we have all been to docs who sounded just like Chuck and were dead > wrong, and we were almost dead b/c of it. > not meaning to bash Chuck. > Gracia > > Hi, . You're right that everyone has a right to their opinion. > But I certainly have never seen ANY statement by Chuck that could > reasonably be considered aggressive, passive or otherwise. > > Chuck is, however, a scientist. He therefore speaks as a scientist. > The factual and unemotional way of reacting to inaccurate statements may > well be off-putting to someone not familiar with the approach of > scientists to facts and fallacies. > > That being said, if you think Chuck is passive/aggressive then you > probably think my statements re: Hulda [and similar quack nut > cases] far beyond passive-aggressive. So be it. But saying a pig will > fly isn't going to gain it a lot of air miles; and I kind of tend to > call a spade a spade. > > Regards, > > > > > > Re: Question for Chuck > > > <hypothyroidism/message/31223 _ylc=X3oDMTJxM3JhdWdxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEw DIEbXNnSWQDMzEyMjMEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4OTk4MjUwNg-- > <hypothyroidism/message/31223 _ylc=X3oDMTJxM3JhdWdxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEw DIEbXNnSWQDMzEyMjMEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4OTk4MjUwNg-->> > > > > > > > > Posted by: " " ronicamelian@... > <mailto:ronicamelian%40hotmail.com> > > <mailto:ronicamelian@... > <mailto:ronicamelian%40hotmail.com>?Subject=%20Re% > 3A%20Question%20for%20Chuck> > > witchin39 <witchin39 > <witchin39>> > > > > > > Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:15 pm (PST) > > > > ....I think I speak for all in this group...when I say your > > observations are very welcome. After all, this helps all of us learn. > > > > But we do reserve the right to make our own observations ....on what > we as > > individuals read here and while observing our own health on a day to day > > basis. > > > > I would not be here at all... if I hadn't been going downhill > > healthwise and > > looked up symptoms in all forums including Shoman's.... > > I am soon going > > to be 68....and probably would not have made it there if I went by some > > medical advice. They were not even guessing what could possibly be going > > wrong. > > > > My friend is 11 yrs younger than myself....the one with the doctor > and the > > health insurance. She had similar symptoms and now there docs are > finally > > seeing something wrong with parathyroid. > > > > Her eyes have deteriorated to some pretty high correction. She has > to wear > > contacts or eyeglasses constantly now. I still have 20/20 vision and > > my eye > > doc only recently told me I have no age related disease. Eye doctors are > > important....eyes are the window on health. > > > > I have no health insurance. About 6 yrs ago I fell while > skiing....twisted > > my legs but didn't break anything. But this injury caused all sorts of > > health problems. I must have had some internal insult to some organs > > because I had stomach probs. Throwing up etc. > > > > Since there was no insurance I had no medical help recovering. I sat > in my > > room in a chair night and day because lying down was intolerable. > After 6 > > MOS I finally was able to walk....and I went to a gym to lift > weights and > > became stronger. > > > > A few years ago I caught some sort of flu or who knows what was > > happening to > > me....I coughed forever until I happened on information in this > group and > > others like it. > > > > I probably would have died from this....but not so....here I still am > > ....I > > can walk long distances....my legs do not swell and I DO NOT COUGH!! > > Hallelujah and yeah I have tested and decided what to take on my > own. I am > > healthier than my 11 yr younger friend who has been running to > doctors all > > of her life. > > > > Believe me I appreciate everyone on this group....you , can keep us > > grounded. > > > > One more short story. My son was a beautiful young man ....I noticed an > > unusual mood swinging even at a very young age....Not one Dr caught > > this.... > > I have deduced (in hind sight) that he had a thyroid/adrenal issue....if > > only I knew this before 2000. > > > > That year in November he died....I don't know if he took his own life > > or if > > someone murdered him. He was getting Marine Corp benefits after having > > testicular cancer. He was 21 when his testicle was removed in Okinawa > > after > > being flown there from the first Gulf War. > > > > 1999 he met a young woman who eventually said she was having his > > child....he > > signed as father to the baby (he was not)....but this woman wanted his > > money > > ...he was living 30 miles from me....so I only have his writing > > (everything > > always in hind sight) so I know only a little of what was going on and > > from > > his friends. > > > > The woman and her friends (who include sheriff deputies who are now in > > prison for drug dealing and molestation of teens girls) planned this and > > are guilty of murder no matter who pulled the trigger. > > > > You needed to know this because he was on the kind of meds you say you > > have > > been taking. Clonazipam, Risperidol .....his psychiatrist was being so > > kind > > to me....he allowed me to come to the Vet clinic (I am a vet also) I > > thought > > he was concerned about my well being....when again (in hind sight) I > > see he > > wanted to question me to see if I blamed him and the meds he prescribed. > > > > Lastly and please don't take this wrong. Chuck is a good man and a very > > smart one. But reread his posts. He is wrong in his approach to > others on > > this list who have a right to their opinions on their own health. Plus > > their right to post these opinions. > > > > He negates that right being passive aggressive. And all of us feel > it but > > we either don't reply or are agitated by it .....whether or not it > is his > > intention to keep all of us out of the mix, have the site to himself... > > hmmm? I don't know what he is thinking but no one is absolutely right > > about everything I don't care how much education he has. > > > > Again, , Chuck is not your only friend here....we all care and > if you > > don't mind our un formally educated opinions....we would like to be > > included > > in your posts. > > > > Sincerely open to anything, > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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