Re: H.Pylori, antibiotics, immune system, leaky gut

[Guest guest]

> Posted by: " ..: )::.. " ombass@... redeyejedi808

> Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:47 pm (PDT)

> I thought that a large portion of the immune system or

> cells was in the small intestine?

There's no immune sytem in fecal contents, but just inside the

intestine wall is anothe story. Immune response there prevents

the bacteria from going far.

> But doesn't there have to be something to create the leaky guy,

> candida, etc in the first place? I didn't take a long string of

> antibiotics, which is what everybody seems to think creates these

> states.

A chronic high-carb diet can easily lead to dysbiosis and

candidiasis without an antibiotic program's help.

> Could a B vitamin deficiency create low adrenal function? I guess I

> should not have used the term " exhaustion. " More like low adrenals. He

> has me on sublingual DHEA and pregnenalone to treat this.

Vitamin deficiency can cause all kinds of things. It's a stressor

so it will affect adrenal ouput.

> Do you think that taking the sublingual hormones is a good idea to

> combat the low adrenal function?

Short term perhaps, while you're figuring out why adrenal

function is low.

> I know someone else

> who was suffering identically to me, went through their H.Pylori

> treatment, and now is feeling a 1000000x better.

Sure but what they use to treat H. pylori also kills a raft of

other germs, right?

> But the treatment they prescribe is two weeks of two different kinds

> of antibiotics along with Pepto which I guess has bismuth which also

> kills the H.Pylori. The Dr. says he tried herbs and natural methods to

> treat H.Pylori for years to no avail and eventually had to switch to

> the antibiotics.

Coconut oil and monolaurin work fine on H. pylori.

> So in your opinion is H.Pylori ever behind leaky gut?

In my opinion it's rare.

> And suppose I

> was affected, you would not recommend taking the antibiotics to knock

> it out?

I seldom recommend antibiotics because they cause bowel issues

pretty reliably, but you can take them; just use the inulin at

the same time to keep the probiotic bacteria growing as best you

can.

> _jason_

> _________ ________ _______ _____ ____ ___ __ _ _ _

>

Duncan Crow

[Guest guest]

On 7/15/06 9:23 AM, " Duncan Crow " <duncancrow@...> wrote:

>

>> Posted by: " ..: )::.. " ombass@... redeyejedi808

>> Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:47 pm (PDT)

>> I thought that a large portion of the immune system or

>> cells was in the small intestine?

>

> There's no immune sytem in fecal contents, but just inside the

> intestine wall is anothe story. Immune response there prevents

> the bacteria from going far.

Ah, ok. I guess that's why I hear about the immune system being related.

>> But doesn't there have to be something to create the leaky guy,

>> candida, etc in the first place? I didn't take a long string of

>> antibiotics, which is what everybody seems to think creates these

>> states.

>

> A chronic high-carb diet can easily lead to dysbiosis and

> candidiasis without an antibiotic program's help.

I have never really had a chronic high carb diet. Although I did eat

wheat/gluten for years without knowing I was sensitive to it. My Dr says in

gluten sensitive people this can wear down the lining of the intestines, and

create leaky gut and Candida.

I went in there to his office yesterday specifically to talk to him about my

concerns about the antibiotics in conjunction with leaky gut and candida. He

says very rarely in his experience is candida the only culprit to blame. He

said he used to specifically treat and target candida, but eventually

realized that most of the time there is something affecting your immune

system to allow the candida to flourish. In other words its rarely just

candida (gluten, parasites, bacteria, etc).

>> Could a B vitamin deficiency create low adrenal function? I guess I

>> should not have used the term " exhaustion. " More like low adrenals. He

>> has me on sublingual DHEA and pregnenalone to treat this.

>

> Vitamin deficiency can cause all kinds of things. It's a stressor

> so it will affect adrenal ouput.

>

>> Do you think that taking the sublingual hormones is a good idea to

>> combat the low adrenal function?

>

> Short term perhaps, while you're figuring out why adrenal

> function is low.

I know for a fact I am deficient in B-Vitamins. Not sure which ones yet, but

I noticed a " high " of sorts (mood change, energy, etc) after eating beef one

day (I usually don't eat it). Then I noticed I get that high every time I

eat beef. So one thing lead to another, and I tried just taking some

b-vitamins. Same exact high was produced. Very interesting!

>> I know someone else

>> who was suffering identically to me, went through their H.Pylori

>> treatment, and now is feeling a 1000000x better.

>

> Sure but what they use to treat H. pylori also kills a raft of

> other germs, right?

I would imagine so, yes. The combination of two antibiotics will probably

kill whatever is in there, good or bad. Is there some sort of other

infection that could have been both involved in the leaky gut/candida and

eradicated by the antibiotics?

>> But the treatment they prescribe is two weeks of two different kinds

>> of antibiotics along with Pepto which I guess has bismuth which also

>> kills the H.Pylori. The Dr. says he tried herbs and natural methods to

>> treat H.Pylori for years to no avail and eventually had to switch to

>> the antibiotics.

>

> Coconut oil and monolaurin work fine on H. pylori.

>

>> So in your opinion is H.Pylori ever behind leaky gut?

>

> In my opinion it's rare.

The strange thing about the H.Pylori is that i do not exhibit any of the

" stereotypical " symptoms associated with it: heartburn, indigestion,

abdominal pain, etc. When i asked my Dr about this yesterday, he said that

this is a classic western medicine approach like they treat parasites. If

you dont have diarrhea, you dont have parasites, according to traditional

Drs. But that is of course not true. He implies that H.Pylori, parasites,

and gluten sensitivity are behind the majority of digestive issues out there

today. In his defense, he does seem fairly technical, and has over 10 years

experience in treating this stuff. He said for many years he used herbs

because he wanted to avoid the antibiotics. But eventually he had to switch

to drugs, as he says the herbs are just not nearly as effective in the long

run.

>> And suppose I

>> was affected, you would not recommend taking the antibiotics to knock

>> it out?

>

> I seldom recommend antibiotics because they cause bowel issues

> pretty reliably, but you can take them; just use the inulin at

> the same time to keep the probiotic bacteria growing as best you

> can.

I have to admit I am seriously considering taking them. I am at the end of

my rope and losing my mind on a daily basis.

I am sure you know.

So at this point i am essentially at the end of my rope/mind. I really feel

like there is SOMETHING in my body keeping it from healing, be it a big worm

or a bacterial infection, or some disease that has gone unnoticed (lyme,

epstien barr, etc.) I've been tested twice for parasites, both results were

negative. I've been tested for heavy metal toxicity, negative. So out of

desparation, and after his strong reassurance last night, i am seriously

considering the antibiotics. He wants me to take Tetracycline a

_jason_

_________ ________ _______ _____ ____ ___ __ _ _ _

[Guest guest]

Sorry - that last message was sent a little prematurely. I wasn't quite

finished! But I was close.

But overall I really would like to thank you Duncan for being so helpful

here with my concerns and questions. You are very knowledgeable and I

appreciate your viewpoint :-)

Out of desperation, and based on the fact that the Dr I am seeing has a lot

of experience treating the conditions I am suffering from, I think I am

going to try the antibiotics. I am scared, and very reluctant. But I cant

keep banging my head against the wall with this, and need to do SOMETHING.

I am going to load up on the inulin, as well as many probiotics I can

stomach.

Thanks again for your help and support!

_jason_

On 7/15/06 9:23 AM, " Duncan Crow " <duncancrow@...> wrote:

>

>> Posted by: " ..: )::.. " ombass@... redeyejedi808

>> Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:47 pm (PDT)

>> I thought that a large portion of the immune system or

>> cells was in the small intestine?

>

> There's no immune sytem in fecal contents, but just inside the

> intestine wall is anothe story. Immune response there prevents

> the bacteria from going far.

>

>> But doesn't there have to be something to create the leaky guy,

>> candida, etc in the first place? I didn't take a long string of

>> antibiotics, which is what everybody seems to think creates these

>> states.

>

> A chronic high-carb diet can easily lead to dysbiosis and

> candidiasis without an antibiotic program's help.

>

>> Could a B vitamin deficiency create low adrenal function? I guess I

>> should not have used the term " exhaustion. " More like low adrenals. He

>> has me on sublingual DHEA and pregnenalone to treat this.

>

> Vitamin deficiency can cause all kinds of things. It's a stressor

> so it will affect adrenal ouput.

>

>> Do you think that taking the sublingual hormones is a good idea to

>> combat the low adrenal function?

>

> Short term perhaps, while you're figuring out why adrenal

> function is low.

>

>> I know someone else

>> who was suffering identically to me, went through their H.Pylori

>> treatment, and now is feeling a 1000000x better.

>

> Sure but what they use to treat H. pylori also kills a raft of

> other germs, right?

>

>> But the treatment they prescribe is two weeks of two different kinds

>> of antibiotics along with Pepto which I guess has bismuth which also

>> kills the H.Pylori. The Dr. says he tried herbs and natural methods to

>> treat H.Pylori for years to no avail and eventually had to switch to

>> the antibiotics.

>

> Coconut oil and monolaurin work fine on H. pylori.

>

>> So in your opinion is H.Pylori ever behind leaky gut?

>

> In my opinion it's rare.

>

>> And suppose I

>> was affected, you would not recommend taking the antibiotics to knock

>> it out?

>

> I seldom recommend antibiotics because they cause bowel issues

> pretty reliably, but you can take them; just use the inulin at

> the same time to keep the probiotic bacteria growing as best you

> can.

>

>> _jason_

>> _________ ________ _______ _____ ____ ___ __ _ _ _

>>

>

> Duncan Crow

>

>

>

>

>