Re: explain this

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

The constellation of symptoms you have are giving you fits, and need to be addressed. First, my suggestion is to write everything down, have it on paper when you see him, and hit each question, and or symptom. I can go to waterworks if I'm frustrated, and have found having things written down at least gets me through the visit accomplishing what I wanted to get addressed.

Second, you know your body, and if doesn't feel right, you know it. Don't let anyone pooh-pooh off how you are feeling. I'll give you an example. I had to do I.V. treatments of Aredia for osteoporosis, my doc's want my bone quality up since the don't want my hardware to move. So I go for my first treatment, an hour hooked up to an I.V. bag and then home. I did it on a friday, Friday night I'm vomitting, horrible muscle aches, and an unbelieveable headache, like the worst flu times ten. I call them on Monday, tell them what happened, no it's not the drug, you must have a virus. I kept saying I was fine when I came to you and now I'm violently sick. So I go the next month to have the treatment, doc says must have been a virus, that they do reams of this drug and NO ONE has ever had those symptoms. I get home from the treatment, and it starts all over again. My husband looks up the drug on the internet, and at the bottom of the side affects is vommitting and extreame headaches. He also finds that the drug they are giving me is for Breast Cancer that is going to the bone, although the doc did tell me that they were treating me like I had bone cancer, very aggressive treatment for the osteoporosis. So when I could call, I got the oncall guy, and he called my doc. I told him what we had found on the internet, and he finally agreed that it wasn't a virus but a major reaction to the drug. So to continue the drug, I had to get pretreatment of Benedryll, a pain reliever, and then after the med's were given two bags of I.V. Fluids. This got rid of most of the symptoms, but took my one hour treatment to six, and I still had to take for a couple of days after the treatment Celebrex for the headache. If he had just listened to me, had gotten that after all the surgeries, that I KNEW MY BODY, I wouldn't have had to gone through another bad reaction.

If you don't feel like you are being listened to, or you are being pooh-poohed off, move on to another doc. Doc's can really make you feel like it's all in your head. Never hurts to have another doc take a look at whats going on, a fresh pair of eyes can't hurt.

Colorado Springs

[ ] explain this

Hi all,Just a little frustrated today. I see the surgeon on Oct 4 for my six month follow up. I can not find the words to describe how I am feeling which is frustrating to no end. I do not want to go in there and sound like a blithering idiot because then I will cry because I am frustrated. How do describe a feeling of oh lets see..I don't feel like the rods are secure? It feels like they are not anchored and are floating about. I feel movement in my middle back and again down near the sacrum. My rod makes noises. The movement of the rod/muscle wall, etc, makes my nerves on the left side go beserk. I keep remembering after I had the first rod put in, people saying, if it hurts then don't do it. I think of that now and say, ya, OK, now don't move this way, you will hear that noise or feel that movement in your back. See...I sound like a blithering banana head. Ok signing off, I'm crying now.

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

You have really been through a great deal. I wish there was

something I could do or say....just know you are in our thoughts and

we are in your corner. I hope the doctor can help you. If you cry,

do not worry. You won't sound like a blithering banana head. AFter

all you have been through, crying would be a completely normal,

understandable response to the frustration! Before I went elsewhere

and was diagnosed with flatback, I broke down on the table in front

of our local orthopod (and I really did NOT want to cry) who was

about to give me the umteenth injection of steroids in the SI

joint. I really don't think he realized how despondent I was until

that point. I am sure you must be frustrated at six months and

still not getting the results you had hoped for. I just hope that

the doctor can figure out what is causing all these symptoms. Hang

in there!

Martha Anne

>

> Hi all,

> Just a little frustrated today. I see the surgeon on Oct 4 for my

six

> month follow up. I can not find the words to describe how I am

feeling

> which is frustrating to no end. I do not want to go in there and

sound

> like a blithering idiot because then I will cry because I am

> frustrated. How do describe a feeling of oh lets see..I don't feel

like

> the rods are secure? It feels like they are not anchored and are

> floating about. I feel movement in my middle back and again down

near

> the sacrum. My rod makes noises. The movement of the rod/muscle

wall,

> etc, makes my nerves on the left side go beserk. I keep

remembering

> after I had the first rod put in, people saying, if it hurts then

don't

> do it. I think of that now and say, ya, OK, now don't move this

way,

> you will hear that noise or feel that movement in your back.

See...I

> sound like a blithering banana head. Ok signing off, I'm crying

now.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't want in any way to sound like I am saying you should not push, and get it checked, but I just do want to say again that my rods felt absolutely foreign for months. I felt movement, they creaked, a year out I tried to go back to light weight training and felt for all the world as though I was going to bend my back, rods and all despite that I was thoroughly fused as far as anyone could see. You could actually hear weird sounds from my back sometimes - I rolled over in bed and my husband freaked out because it was quiet enough that he heard the creaking, and I just blearily told him yes, that's what I mean when I say they're creaking and it feels like something moved between my shoulder blades!!

I was just about convinced my body would never get used to the rods when all of a sudden, quite rapidly over just a few months, it did. These days I can pull 20 kg on the lat pulldown machine, and nothing at all moves. And I don't " feel " the heaviness and just the sense of there being too much crammed in there any more. At 12 months I was convinced I would either need a pseudoarthrosis repair or two, or to have the rods out, at 18 I was fine. Nothing that used to make me feel like I was going to somehow bend and then snap does now, it's all rock solid and comfortable. I know that probably sounds like a scarily long time, but I mean it more as hope - even if there are not many answers, it's surprising just how much really is " just healing " .

All of that said, you should definitely bring all of your problems up. As has been suggested, write them down, even if the explanation you can give on it sounds daft, it doesn't matter - our docs are used to having to try to decipher almost inexplicable things that we can barely put words to, and so I would hope you'd be surprised by how much he's able to understand even if you don't think your descriptions are up to much.

I would also hope that if nothing else, they can treat the nerve related discomfort you're having. I don't know if it is relevant as you're talking more about motion than sensation, but has mentioned on more than one occasion about re-sensitising your nerves, exposing the area that doesn't feel right to a variety of sensations and concentrating on how they should feel. This *really* helped me. I still have an area on my leg where if it's touched wrongly I just freak out, but it's pretty hard to get it wrongly these days. The other thing that I find helps jangling nerves, although it's not very practical if you don't either have double jointed shoulders or someone to reach for you, is pressure. When they set off on a good going zapping and jagging session with the muscle jumps and stuff, if I could, I put pressure on as strongly as possible - I think it's a bit like TENS in that it basically runs distraction on the bad sensations by overloading them. I wouldn't press directly on the spine, but most of the nasties were to one side, and they were fair game if I could reach them.

It might also be worth keeping a notebook, make a shorthand or code for different nasties that you want to be rid of, and note when and with what intensity they happen. The very least is that it'll give a picture of how much this is getting in your way, which could be useful back up when dealing with the docs as it's a little more specific than just trying to remember roughly how often. It may also help you recognise patterns if there are any, which could be useful too.

I really hope you can get some good answers and help.

titch-- The wages of sin are death, but by the time taxes are taken out, it's just sort of a tired feeling - a Poundstone

[Guest guest]

,

I am sorry you are hurting and crying ....I do hope that you can get

some sense of where this is heading in October. If you feel like you

are going to be emotional I think, as already suggested, writing

down what you want to say is a great idea. Maybe even start the

conversation by telling DrGlazer that you might well end up crying

before its over, but that is just how it is going to be.

I was looking for an old document and I stumbled onto a spine-health

article I had saved on failed back sydrome. I bring this up not

becasue I think you have a failed back situation, but rather because

it speaks to the length of the recovery we all face:

" Rehabilitation after spine surgery

After an incorrect preoperative diagnosis and subsequent spine

surgery, probably the second most common cause of failed back

surgery syndrome is improper and/or inadequate postoperative

rehabilitation. As stated earlier, it often takes months to a year

to heal after many of these back surgeries, and a postoperative

rehabilitation program that includes stretching, strengthening and

conditioning is an important part of any successful spine surgery.

In general, the bigger the back surgery, and the longer a patient

has had their preoperative symptoms, the longer and harder the

postoperative rehabilitation will be. It is often far more

reasonable to continue with rehabilitation after spine surgery than

to consider further surgery (with some exceptions, such as if there

has been a recurrent disc herniation). "

Here is the link to the full article....kind of interesting. Of

course this stuff pertains to any back surgery so it is not

necesarilly specific to us:

http://www.spine-

health.com/topics/surg/failed_back/failed_back01.html

I know that which Titch speaks of...that all of a sudden feeling

more solid, or whatever it was, didn't come til closer to a year for

me.

I do hope things improve for you soon. Trust yourself.

Take Care, Cam

[Guest guest]

Your right, no one knows it better than me. I have it all written

down and hopefully, they can explain my difficulties. We thought

originally in time it would pass but it has not.

>

> Dear ,

>

> The constellation of symptoms you have are giving you fits, and

need to be addressed. First, my suggestion is to write everything

down, have it on paper when you see him, and hit each question, and

or symptom. I can go to waterworks if I'm frustrated, and have found

having things written down at least gets me through the visit

accomplishing what I wanted to get addressed.

>

> Second, you know your body, and if doesn't feel right, you know it.

Don't let anyone pooh-pooh off how you are feeling. I'll give you an

example. I had to do I.V. treatments of Aredia for osteoporosis, my

doc's want my bone quality up since the don't want my hardware to

move. So I go for my first treatment, an hour hooked up to an I.V.

bag and then home. I did it on a friday, Friday night I'm vomitting,

horrible muscle aches, and an unbelieveable headache, like the worst

flu times ten. I call them on Monday, tell them what happened, no

it's not the drug, you must have a virus. I kept saying I was fine

when I came to you and now I'm violently sick. So I go the next month

to have the treatment, doc says must have been a virus, that they do

reams of this drug and NO ONE has ever had those symptoms. I get home

from the treatment, and it starts all over again. My husband looks up

the drug on the internet, and at the bottom of the side affects is

vommitting and extreame headaches. He also finds that the drug they

are giving me is for Breast Cancer that is going to the bone,

although the doc did tell me that they were treating me like I had

bone cancer, very aggressive treatment for the osteoporosis. So when

I could call, I got the oncall guy, and he called my doc. I told him

what we had found on the internet, and he finally agreed that it

wasn't a virus but a major reaction to the drug. So to continue the

drug, I had to get pretreatment of Benedryll, a pain reliever, and

then after the med's were given two bags of I.V. Fluids. This got rid

of most of the symptoms, but took my one hour treatment to six, and I

still had to take for a couple of days after the treatment Celebrex

for the headache. If he had just listened to me, had gotten that

after all the surgeries, that I KNEW MY BODY, I wouldn't have had to

gone through another bad reaction.

>

> If you don't feel like you are being listened to, or you are being

pooh-poohed off, move on to another doc. Doc's can really make you

feel like it's all in your head. Never hurts to have another doc take

a look at whats going on, a fresh pair of eyes can't hurt.

>

>

> Colorado Springs

> [ ] explain this

>

>

> Hi all,

> Just a little frustrated today. I see the surgeon on Oct 4 for my

six

> month follow up. I can not find the words to describe how I am

feeling

> which is frustrating to no end. I do not want to go in there and

sound

> like a blithering idiot because then I will cry because I am

> frustrated. How do describe a feeling of oh lets see..I don't

feel like

> the rods are secure? It feels like they are not anchored and are

> floating about. I feel movement in my middle back and again down

near

> the sacrum. My rod makes noises. The movement of the rod/muscle

wall,

> etc, makes my nerves on the left side go beserk. I keep

remembering

> after I had the first rod put in, people saying, if it hurts then

don't

> do it. I think of that now and say, ya, OK, now don't move this

way,

> you will hear that noise or feel that movement in your back.

See...I

> sound like a blithering banana head. Ok signing off, I'm crying

now.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Martha Anne,

At this point even my hunnie thinks I'm nuts but I feel what I feel

and that is what I will tell the doc.

> >

> > Hi all,

> > Just a little frustrated today. I see the surgeon on Oct 4 for my

> six

> > month follow up. I can not find the words to describe how I am

> feeling

> > which is frustrating to no end. I do not want to go in there and

> sound

> > like a blithering idiot because then I will cry because I am

> > frustrated. How do describe a feeling of oh lets see..I don't

feel

> like

> > the rods are secure? It feels like they are not anchored and are

> > floating about. I feel movement in my middle back and again down

> near

> > the sacrum. My rod makes noises. The movement of the rod/muscle

> wall,

> > etc, makes my nerves on the left side go beserk. I keep

> remembering

> > after I had the first rod put in, people saying, if it hurts then

> don't

> > do it. I think of that now and say, ya, OK, now don't move this

> way,

> > you will hear that noise or feel that movement in your back.

> See...I

> > sound like a blithering banana head. Ok signing off, I'm crying

> now.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Titch,

Your post was very helpful. If I could explain it word for word, I

would say that if my hips are even a tiny bit out of alignment as in

say, I forget to move both legs at the same time getting in and out

of the car then, I feel something move either in the middle of my

back or the top of the tail bone. Then all the nerves on the left

side tingle all at once. I have to take a deep breath to let it pass

but the tingling doesn't pass. It either goes to a dull roar or full

blown. I never enjoy anything because it is always present. I think

it even puts a rawness at the back of my throat though I am being

treated for reflux. 1 1/2 months on meds for it no change. But when

this back thing happens and the nerves go nuts the back of the throat

goes bellistic too. Anyway, that is as close as I can come to

explaining it. Thanks,

>

> I don't want in any way to sound like I am saying you should not

push, and

> get it checked, but I just do want to say again that my rods felt

absolutely

> foreign for months. I felt movement, they creaked, a year out I

tried to go

> back to light weight training and felt for all the world as though

I was

> going to bend my back, rods and all despite that I was thoroughly

fused as

> far as anyone could see. You could actually hear weird sounds from

my back

> sometimes - I rolled over in bed and my husband freaked out because

it was

> quiet enough that he heard the creaking, and I just blearily told

him yes,

> that's what I mean when I say they're creaking and it feels like

something

> moved between my shoulder blades!!

>

> I was just about convinced my body would never get used to the rods

when all

> of a sudden, quite rapidly over just a few months, it did. These

days I can

> pull 20 kg on the lat pulldown machine, and nothing at all moves.

And I

> don't " feel " the heaviness and just the sense of there being too

much

> crammed in there any more. At 12 months I was convinced I would

either need

> a pseudoarthrosis repair or two, or to have the rods out, at 18 I

was fine.

> Nothing that used to make me feel like I was going to somehow bend

and then

> snap does now, it's all rock solid and comfortable. I know that

probably

> sounds like a scarily long time, but I mean it more as hope - even

if there

> are not many answers, it's surprising just how much really is " just

> healing " .

>

> All of that said, you should definitely bring all of your problems

up. As

> has been suggested, write them down, even if the explanation you

can give on

> it sounds daft, it doesn't matter - our docs are used to having to

try to

> decipher almost inexplicable things that we can barely put words

to, and so

> I would hope you'd be surprised by how much he's able to understand

even if

> you don't think your descriptions are up to much.

>

> I would also hope that if nothing else, they can treat the nerve

related

> discomfort you're having. I don't know if it is relevant as you're

talking

> more about motion than sensation, but has mentioned on more

than one

> occasion about re-sensitising your nerves, exposing the area that

doesn't

> feel right to a variety of sensations and concentrating on how they

should

> feel. This *really* helped me. I still have an area on my leg

where if

> it's touched wrongly I just freak out, but it's pretty hard to get

it

> wrongly these days. The other thing that I find helps jangling

nerves,

> although it's not very practical if you don't either have double

jointed

> shoulders or someone to reach for you, is pressure. When they set

off on a

> good going zapping and jagging session with the muscle jumps and

stuff, if I

> could, I put pressure on as strongly as possible - I think it's a

bit like

> TENS in that it basically runs distraction on the bad sensations by

> overloading them. I wouldn't press directly on the spine, but most

of the

> nasties were to one side, and they were fair game if I could reach

them.

>

> It might also be worth keeping a notebook, make a shorthand or code

for

> different nasties that you want to be rid of, and note when and

with what

> intensity they happen. The very least is that it'll give a picture

of how

> much this is getting in your way, which could be useful back up

when dealing

> with the docs as it's a little more specific than just trying to

remember

> roughly how often. It may also help you recognise patterns if

there are

> any, which could be useful too.

>

> I really hope you can get some good answers and help.

>

> titch

>

> --

> The wages of sin are death, but by the time taxes are taken out,

it's just

> sort of a tired feeling - a Poundstone

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Cam the articles were helpful. Though I can't find any explain

ation of these symptoms. I understand time and lots of therapy will

bring a healthy results. Hopefully, it is inflammation and will pass.

>

> ,

>

> I am sorry you are hurting and crying ....I do hope that you can

get

> some sense of where this is heading in October. If you feel like

you

> are going to be emotional I think, as already suggested, writing

> down what you want to say is a great idea. Maybe even start the

> conversation by telling DrGlazer that you might well end up crying

> before its over, but that is just how it is going to be.

>

> I was looking for an old document and I stumbled onto a spine-

health

> article I had saved on failed back sydrome. I bring this up not

> becasue I think you have a failed back situation, but rather

because

> it speaks to the length of the recovery we all face:

>

> " Rehabilitation after spine surgery

> After an incorrect preoperative diagnosis and subsequent spine

> surgery, probably the second most common cause of failed back

> surgery syndrome is improper and/or inadequate postoperative

> rehabilitation. As stated earlier, it often takes months to a year

> to heal after many of these back surgeries, and a postoperative

> rehabilitation program that includes stretching, strengthening and

> conditioning is an important part of any successful spine surgery.

>

> In general, the bigger the back surgery, and the longer a patient

> has had their preoperative symptoms, the longer and harder the

> postoperative rehabilitation will be. It is often far more

> reasonable to continue with rehabilitation after spine surgery than

> to consider further surgery (with some exceptions, such as if there

> has been a recurrent disc herniation). "

>

> Here is the link to the full article....kind of interesting. Of

> course this stuff pertains to any back surgery so it is not

> necesarilly specific to us:

>

> http://www.spine-

> health.com/topics/surg/failed_back/failed_back01.html

>

> I know that which Titch speaks of...that all of a sudden feeling

> more solid, or whatever it was, didn't come til closer to a year

for

> me.

>

> I do hope things improve for you soon. Trust yourself.

>

> Take Care, Cam

>

[Guest guest]

I hope the surgeon puts you're mind at ease when trying to

explain what you are feeling or hearing, I often have a hard time

describing what I feel but maybe there is someone in this group that

can help put it in better words I know it can be dificult finding the

right words to describe what we feel.

It reminds me of some people when they take there car for repair and

try to describe a particular noise when knoing verry litle about

about car trouble.

Like cam said try writing down what you're feeling at the time you

are feeling it and take the notes with you.

Take care

Franca

>

> Hi all,

> Just a little frustrated today. I see the surgeon on Oct 4 for my

six

> month follow up. I can not find the words to describe how I am

feeling

> which is frustrating to no end. I do not want to go in there and

sound

> like a blithering idiot because then I will cry because I am

> frustrated. How do describe a feeling of oh lets see..I don't feel

like

> the rods are secure? It feels like they are not anchored and are

> floating about. I feel movement in my middle back and again down

near

> the sacrum. My rod makes noises. The movement of the rod/muscle

wall,

> etc, makes my nerves on the left side go beserk. I keep

remembering

> after I had the first rod put in, people saying, if it hurts then

don't

> do it. I think of that now and say, ya, OK, now don't move this

way,

> you will hear that noise or feel that movement in your back.

See...I

> sound like a blithering banana head. Ok signing off, I'm crying

now.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ...

Odds are that nothing is wrong, but don’t rule out the possibility that something is, indeed, wrong. I don’t think I’ve heard very many (if any) people describe that their implants feel loose.

I hope that’s not the case, but at least it would explain what you’re feeling.

Good luck!

Regards,

>

> Hi all,

> Just a little frustrated today. I see the surgeon on Oct 4 for my

six

> month follow up. I can not find the words to describe how I am

feeling

> which is frustrating to no end. I do not want to go in there and

sound

> like a blithering idiot because then I will cry because I am

> frustrated. How do describe a feeling of oh lets see..I don't feel

like

> the rods are secure? It feels like they are not anchored and are

> floating about. I feel movement in my middle back and again down

near

> the sacrum. My rod makes noises. The movement of the rod/muscle

wall,

> etc, makes my nerves on the left side go beserk. I keep

remembering

> after I had the first rod put in, people saying, if it hurts then

don't

> do it. I think of that now and say, ya, OK, now don't move this

way,

> you will hear that noise or feel that movement in your back.

See...I

> sound like a blithering banana head. Ok signing off, I'm crying

now.

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Ooops...maybe I wasn't clear...I didn't really think the passage I

copied applied specifically to what you are feeling....just confirming

that, in fact, the bigger the surgery the longer the healing timeline

and that healing may take you another year at minimum. I do hope

nothing is actually loose and you are just hearing tendons going

THWANG over bone!

As says...follow up on your feeings until you are satisfied!

Take Care, Cam

[Guest guest]

Thanks Franca, That is right a good comparison is car repair. Ha.

> >

> > Hi all,

> > Just a little frustrated today. I see the surgeon on Oct 4 for

my

> six

> > month follow up. I can not find the words to describe how I am

> feeling

> > which is frustrating to no end. I do not want to go in there and

> sound

> > like a blithering idiot because then I will cry because I am

> > frustrated. How do describe a feeling of oh lets see..I don't

feel

> like

> > the rods are secure? It feels like they are not anchored and are

> > floating about. I feel movement in my middle back and again down

> near

> > the sacrum. My rod makes noises. The movement of the rod/muscle

> wall,

> > etc, makes my nerves on the left side go beserk. I keep

> remembering

> > after I had the first rod put in, people saying, if it hurts

then

> don't

> > do it. I think of that now and say, ya, OK, now don't move this

> way,

> > you will hear that noise or feel that movement in your back.

> See...I

> > sound like a blithering banana head. Ok signing off, I'm crying

> now.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Cam,

Don't worry, I didn't take it the wrong way. Thanks,

>

> ,

>

> Ooops...maybe I wasn't clear...I didn't really think the passage I

> copied applied specifically to what you are feeling....just

confirming

> that, in fact, the bigger the surgery the longer the healing

timeline

> and that healing may take you another year at minimum. I do hope

> nothing is actually loose and you are just hearing tendons going

> THWANG over bone!

>

> As says...follow up on your feeings until you are satisfied!

>

> Take Care, Cam

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I wish you could get an X-Ray or CT tomorrow so that you could at

least know! Not knowing and wondering is so tough. Isn't it?

I am preparing to see Rand tomorrow and have spent the last couple of

weeks trying to think of ways to describe my pain. Describing pain is

so hard. I never really got with that 1 to 10 scale. I can remember

those first days post op answering 25. The nurses knew I was getting

better when I said 13. In my mind I operate between 5 to 7 ...a 3 on a

really good day. So post op pain was (for me) a 25.

I keep grabbing at the spot in my hip when the pain kicks up at the

end of the med cycle. I want to be able to point exactly. I've even

thought about using a Sharpie and marking a big ( & %$^# & *) X . No kidding.

Anyway, I agree with others that writing it down is a good idea. I

think I will try to do that tonight. I think Franca is right - you get

in that office and it is like a car. Crying is NOT bad. Sometimes

that's what it takes.

Take care,

Ann

[Guest guest]

Ann...Why not use the red sharpie? A big old red X marks the spot

could be a good graphic. Last time through for me, DrRand taped a

paperclip of the prominent spot on my spine to see if it correlated

with the implant.....and back down for another xray. Very low tech

but effective way of determining if what I was feeling was actually

a piece of what was put in there. It doesn't make it feel any

different...but just knowing what it is eases my mind.

Take Care, Cam

>

> Hi ,

> I wish you could get an X-Ray or CT tomorrow so that you could at

> least know! Not knowing and wondering is so tough. Isn't it?

>

> I am preparing to see Rand tomorrow and have spent the last couple

of

> weeks trying to think of ways to describe my pain. Describing pain

is

> so hard. I never really got with that 1 to 10 scale. I can remember

> those first days post op answering 25. The nurses knew I was

getting

> better when I said 13. In my mind I operate between 5 to 7 ...a 3

on a

> really good day. So post op pain was (for me) a 25.

>

> I keep grabbing at the spot in my hip when the pain kicks up at the

> end of the med cycle. I want to be able to point exactly. I've even

> thought about using a Sharpie and marking a big ( & %$^# & *) X . No

kidding.

>

> Anyway, I agree with others that writing it down is a good idea. I

> think I will try to do that tonight. I think Franca is right - you

get

> in that office and it is like a car. Crying is NOT bad. Sometimes

> that's what it takes.

>

> Take care,

> Ann

>