Re: Big Trouble, please help/advise (slightly long)

April 26, 2001

Park - is your wife in the beginnings of menopause?

I too have cfs/fm and mps (myofascial pain syndrome)... I have had 2 unneeded major surgeries (which made me much much sicker afterwards),,, terrible (suidical even) depression and lived in such an incredibly sad, bedridden state for at least 3 years of the last 10 that nothing you have said here surprises me in the least.

I completely and totally understand. The first two years of my illness I had 18 (literally) docs. Every one of them had a different approach - i'm almost sure that one of the meds they put Barb on has to be elavil (amytripaline) ... and it turns you into a zombie. I too was told to go to a psychologist... psychiatrist.... etc. I was 'nuts'... and I made it worse when I would 'appear' in another doctor's office - already crying before he walked in - there's 'putting your 'best' foot forward! - the doc wanted to RUN when they saw me! I did go on an antidepressant - a small amount daily - and do feel that it really helped me at the time - along with klonopin to help me sleep at night - 1/2 a pill - 0.5 mg. Drugs at certain times " can " help until you start to get stronger and are able to drop them.

Truly... your message brought me to tears because it is REAL. Most people don't understand this if they haven't been in this type of illness - this is an illness where we LOSE control. Most people have illnesses that 'they' control... they take meds... they do this... they do that - and basically treat it all and carry on as the ones in control - NOT cfs/fm and these illnesses. Once we're sick enough we are OUT of control - the illness is controlling US. This is very frightening for the person in this situation. When it drags on and on for years it takes a toll mentally/physically and spiritually. In my case I felt I hit rock bottom before I started slowly getting better.

The best answer to all your questions is that you need a COMPREHENSIVE approach (and THAT type of Doctor - if there is one!) that will cover " all " your wife's body systems. Not hitting her with prescriptions as the 'answer'. Every doc if they are honest will say that there is 'no cure'. So WHY do they give us prescriptions? To " ease " the pain,,, to " help " us sleep,,, etc. - but these are bandaids and do not help the base problems.

Barb is probably right and DOES have candida - whether a doc sees it in the vagina or not with his tests is not always a relevant answer. If your wife has become so intensely ill and her body systems so weakened, it is probable that the candida has taken over 'systemically' . It will have its 'base' or 'breeding grounds' in the colon but will from there work its way into different body systems - it has been known (because its a fungus) to even affect the heart/lungs - breathing can become a real problem when the infection is very bad - there have been cases where the heart itself was 'encased' in candida albicans. I've posted a lot of things on this site from doctors with these types of stories. The thing that is different about 'systemic' candida is that in a person's case who is extremely ill with it - it could take anywhere from 1-3 YEARS to be completely clear. I know that this does not sound 'easy'... this is what I have learned personally - and it sounds like your wife is at least as sick (or more so) than i have been. Candida is treated in lots of ways - for some of us here we have found the 'natural' approach to be best. On this site - www.wholeapproach.com you will find a page comparing the main treatments for candida albicans - the prescription drugs vs natural treatments... this will help you to look at....I follow the treatment outlined there on that site.

Amazingly, what does happen over time - is that - as the systemic candida is being dealt with ,,, many of the different body systems will start to 'correct themselves'. you will learn about taking 'enzymes'.... a vital part with diet to correct 'leaky gut' problems which I'm sure your wife has if she's been on anti-biotics at any time,,, or any corticosteroids. The gut becomes 'permeable' and allows undigested proteins to pass into the bloodstream - the whole bloodstream is filled with 'garbage'. This itself makes the person utterly exhausted constantly. Taking the enzymes will improve energy and help all the body systems as they move in and act like little 'pacmen' and EAT up the proteins ... and the garbage.... like a 'metabolic vacuum cleaner'.... they are mandatory... and vital.

Also - we talk a lot here about probiotics.... these are friendly flora/fauna that are in the body naturally - but again, with candida and illness (and medications) these are destroyed. Replacing these is imperative as well - again improving energy and balance in all the body systems.

There are also supplements and other things like 'drinks' that you can make yourself at home that are helpful... the BIGGEST thing of all is just plain old getting educated. We in our culture have been brought up to rely on doctors... and it didn't seem wrong to do that! Then these things happen and we realize that there is no answers there... my best learning (and in getting better!) came when I studied things out - and then APPLIED them. We can all read about things and NEVER apply them - then we become 'negatively knowledgeable'... always talking about the 'possible problems'... but never having experienced anything at all!! Many, many of the herbal remedies and supplements that get such a bad rap on t.v. and other 'scare tactic places'... don't harm anyone - they are wonderfully healing and helpful.

Ok... i've rambled on and on - mostly because I CARE so deeply about you and your wife. I have a support forum for people with cfs/fm and mps (and other chronic illnesses) ... if you would care to come visit - you're more than welcome...

This is the site: http://forums.delphi.com/HOPEISALIVE/start/

if you have never joined delphi before you will be required to register before getting in - but its free....

Anyway - there is MUCH posted here on this site in the archives on systemic candida - and all sorts of things - you could go there, read and be helped!!

You are both in my prayers

sincerely

wendy

P.S. what State do you live in?

April 26, 2001

Hi Park

I wanted to answer your post, but firstly, can you please tell me how old your wife is, if you don't mind.

Kind Regards

Big Trouble, please help/advise (slightly long)

Occasionally we have posted on these boards about my wife's candida situation.

My wife has fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, and candida. Both the first and the last of these cause physically-based depression (as opposed to purely mental depression caused by plain old sad things and events, although unfortunate things have been a part of her life too). The depression and rage usually happens either when she's been explosed to allergins (perfume, mold) or when she is getting her period. The last three months, her periods have gotten worse. The symptoms come up to two weeks before her period. She's had spotting of blood between periods. It's now become so bad that she can hardly walk due to cramping. The fibro symptoms are as follows: incredible muscle pain, depression, and terrible insomnia. The candida has affected every area of her body and causes mental symptoms such as brain fog, anxiety, fear, rage, and ever increasing depression.

We haven't been able to find a candida doctor. My wife was very badly treated by the conventional medical community, which told her it was all in her head and that she should see a psychiatrist. In fact, they didn't even recognize the validity of her fibromyalgia until recently.

We are eating the best diet we can. We don't eat fast food right now for fear of undercooked meat and parasites if not hormones in the meat. We eat as vegetarian as possible. We try to avoid breads, yeasts, sugars, glutens, wheat, caffeine. My wife gets the vitamins and minerals she needs. We are trying so hard to do everything right. We tried Nizoral and it did nothing. Maybe the candida just adapted to it.

We have thought about antidepressants a lot this year. We kept swerving away from the idea, fearing side effects, the effects on the candida/her immune system, and getting on something addictive.

A couple of weeks ago, the depression started to turn suicidal. My wife was hurting herself at night when I was asleep. At least that gave her a little feeling of control over her own body. Namely this was scratching her arms with her very short fingernails and bruising her legs.

A day came when I grew convinced that the next night she would try to kill herself. Foolishly listening to the advice of a holistic caregiver that we felt was a friend, I took my wife to the emergency room.

At first things didn't seem so bad. They took info, checked temperature, pressure, checked insurace card, etc.

Then they led us into the back and had her change into a hospital gown, the kind which ties in the back. Then they made us wait (more). Then a doctor came and checked on her. Then someone else came and talked to her. Then they said she'd have to stay overnight. Then they said she'd have to check herself into their facility. If she didn't voluntarily, they were going to force her to do it involuntarily. I was given no say in this, so I couldn't overrule it.

So they gave me her belt and shoelaces and anything sharp and they put her in their wing that she couldn't get out of with people who were schizophrenic and trying to kick cocaine and so on. I couldn't come with her. Visiting hours were for 4 hours in the late afternoons on weekends, 2 hours in the evening weekdays.

She went in very late on a Friday night. Saturday and Sunday they made her do group activities. The only times she could go outside were for smoke breaks, and those were at certain times of day. Everyone smoked so they could go outside more. For breakfast they had donuts. The food was not nutritional, it was more like airline food than even normal hospital food. It had sugars and white bread and coffee. They wouldn't let her have her herbal supplements, which were the only things that were helping her at all (SAM-e, St. 's wort, etc). She hasn't liked doctors because they made her feel unlistened to, crazy, and powerless. These things only increased by having to stay in a mental ward. Her self-confidence and belief in herself is at a really low ebb.

Do not go to these sorts of places. But if you're going to go, NEVER GO ON A FRIDAY NIGHT. They kept my wife in the system and wouldn't let her out even for Easter Sunday because the real doctors only came mondays/wednesdays/fridays.

Monday they saw her and advised Nofazadone, brand name Serzone. It helps with sleep and is an antidepressant. She had trouble at first because they gave her Ambien at night to help her sleep. She didn't have to take it, but she wanted to. It helped with sleep. What no one told her was Ambien is very addictive and she had a hard time getting off it after taking it only 3 nights.

So Monday night she started the new stuff, Wednesday they decided she could leave.

The medicine, while helping her mood swings, has exhausted her. She has little energy left and she has a hard time waking up in the mornings. We are having some marital difficulties now because she believes that I don't believe that candida is causing all this. I do. I just didn't know what else to do when she got so incredibly depressed this time.

Then, the psychiatrist sent her to an OB-GYN, as a blood test said there was blood in her urine. The OB-GYN was very unhelpful, telling her that she didn't have candida in her vagina, that there was no infection, and the woman generally made my wife feel like she was crazy for consulting her, even though the psychiatrist said to do so. What's worse, the doctor gave her birth control pills, which my wife and I both know promotes candida growth. My wife is very confused right now. She can't live with the worsening PMS, but feels that birth control pills can hurt her, not help her.

So, our questions are as follows:

Do any of you take anti-depressants? What are you experiences with them? Do they help? Do they have side effects? Do they really suppress the immune system?

Do birth control pills really affect the candida negatively as all the books say they do? We don't want to start her on anything that will hurt her further. She's been hurt so much from misdiagnosises and being given the wrong medicines (one doctor pumped her so full of anti-biotics for over a month that it killed off almost all the friendly bacteria in her system).

We are running out of options. The herbs no longer work, as the candida has adapted to them. We are so desperate that we are going to consult a Chinese herbalist on Saturday, just to see if there's any help for her there.

My wife is very depressed now. The experience in the hospital ate away at her self-esteem to the extent that she can hardly function. Her greatest fear has been to be thrust back into the medical community. Having to continue going to a psychiatrist for what seems to be a physical problem is very frustrating for her.

Any advice/support you can give Barb will be very appreciated.

Best,

Park

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April 26, 2001

not so long ago turned 32.

>From: "Nick Grant"

>Reply-candidiasis >

>Subject: Re: Big Trouble, please help/advise (slightly long) >Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:19:52 +1200 > >Hi Park > >I wanted to answer your post, but firstly, can you please tell me how old your wife is, if you don't mind. > >Kind Regards > > > Big Trouble, please help/advise (slightly long) > > > Occasionally we have posted on these boards about my wife's candida situation. > > My wife has fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, and candida. Both the first and the last of these cause physically-based depression (as opposed to purely mental depression caused by plain old sad things and events, although unfortunate things have been a part of her life too). The depression and rage usually happens either when she's been explosed to allergins (perfume, mold) or when she is getting her period. The last three months, her periods have gotten worse. The symptoms come up to two weeks before her period. She's had spotting of blood between periods. It's now become so bad that she can hardly walk due to cramping. The fibro symptoms are as follows: incredible muscle pain, depression, and terrible insomnia. The candida has affected every area of her body and causes mental symptoms such as brain fog, anxiety, fear, rage, and ever increasing depression. > > We haven't been able to find a candida doctor. My wife was very badly treated by the conventional medical community, which told her it was all in her head and that she should see a psychiatrist. In fact, they didn't even recognize the validity of her fibromyalgia until recently. > > We are eating the best diet we can. We don't eat fast food right now for fear of undercooked meat and parasites if not hormones in the meat. We eat as vegetarian as possible. We try to avoid breads, yeasts, sugars, glutens, wheat, caffeine. My wife gets the vitamins and minerals she needs. We are trying so hard to do everything right. We tried Nizoral and it did nothing. Maybe the candida just adapted to it. > > We have thought about antidepressants a lot this year. We kept swerving away from the idea, fearing side effects, the effects on the candida/her immune system, and getting on something addictive. > > A couple of weeks ago, the depression started to turn suicidal. My wife was hurting herself at night when I was asleep. At least that gave her a little feeling of control over her own body. Namely this was scratching her arms with her very short fingernails and bruising her legs. > > A day came when I grew convinced that the next night she would try to kill herself. Foolishly listening to the advice of a holistic caregiver that we felt was a friend, I took my wife to the emergency room. > > At first things didn't seem so bad. They took info, checked temperature, pressure, checked insurace card, etc. > > Then they led us into the back and had her change into a hospital gown, the kind which ties in the back. Then they made us wait (more). Then a doctor came and checked on her. Then someone else came and talked to her. Then they said she'd have to stay overnight. Then they said she'd have to check herself into their facility. If she didn't voluntarily, they were going to force her to do it involuntarily. I was given no say in this, so I couldn't overrule it. > > So they gave me her belt and shoelaces and anything sharp and they put her in their wing that she couldn't get out of with people who were schizophrenic and trying to kick cocaine and so on. I couldn't come with her. Visiting hours were for 4 hours in the late afternoons on weekends, 2 hours in the evening weekdays. > > She went in very late on a Friday night. Saturday and Sunday they made her do group activities. The only times she could go outside were for smoke breaks, and those were at certain times of day. Everyone smoked so they could go outside more. For breakfast they had donuts. The food was not nutritional, it was more like airline food than even normal hospital food. It had sugars and white bread and coffee. They wouldn't let her have her herbal supplements, which were the only things that were helping her at all (SAM-e, St. 's wort, etc). She hasn't liked doctors because they made her feel unlistened to, crazy, and powerless. These things only increased by having to stay in a mental ward. Her self-confidence and belief in herself is at a really low ebb. > > Do not go to these sorts of places. But if you're going to go, NEVER GO ON A FRIDAY NIGHT. They kept my wife in the system and wouldn't let her out even for Easter Sunday because the real doctors only came mondays/wednesdays/fridays. > > Monday they saw her and advised Nofazadone, brand name Serzone. It helps with sleep and is an antidepressant. She had trouble at first because they gave her Ambien at night to help her sleep. She didn't have to take it, but she wanted to. It helped with sleep. What no one told her was Ambien is very addictive and she had a hard time getting off it after taking it only 3 nights. > > So Monday night she started the new stuff, Wednesday they decided she could leave. > > The medicine, while helping her mood swings, has exhausted her. She has little energy left and she has a hard time waking up in the mornings. We are having some marital difficulties now because she believes that I don't believe that candida is causing all this. I do. I just didn't know what else to do when she got so incredibly depressed this time. > > Then, the psychiatrist sent her to an OB-GYN, as a blood test said there was blood in her urine. The OB-GYN was very unhelpful, telling her that she didn't have candida in her vagina, that there was no infection, and the woman generally made my wife feel like she was crazy for consulting her, even though the psychiatrist said to do so. What's worse, the doctor gave her birth control pills, which my wife and I both know promotes candida growth. My wife is very confused right now. She can't live with the worsening PMS, but feels that birth control pills can hurt her, not help her. > > So, our questions are as follows: > > Do any of you take anti-depressants? What are you experiences with them? Do they help? Do they have side effects? Do they really suppress the immune system? > > Do birth control pills really affect the candida negatively as all the books say they do? We don't want to start her on anything that will hurt her further. She's been hurt so much from misdiagnosises and being given the wrong medicines (one doctor pumped her so full of anti-biotics for over a month that it killed off almost all the friendly bacteria in her system). > > We are running out of options. The herbs no longer work, as the candida has adapted to them. We are so desperate that we are going to consult a Chinese herbalist on Saturday, just to see if there's any help for her there. > > My wife is very depressed now. The experience in the hospital ate away at her self-esteem to the extent that she can hardly function. Her greatest fear has been to be thrust back into the medical community. Having to continue going to a psychiatrist for what seems to be a physical problem is very frustrating for her. > > Any advice/support you can give Barb will be very appreciated. > > Best, > > Park > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > >

April 26, 2001

Hi again

I am going to say my bit now, as I have to shut down the computer for the rest of the day, due to the fact I need to spend time elsewhere.

Park, You didn't say where you live, but I will assume it is the USA. Once you are in the medical system over there for mental illness, it is incredibly hard to get out of unfortunately. As you have found out, you have no rights when it comes to the welfare of your wife There is a heap of information on the Internet about depression, the drugs used, the side effects. Do your homework and look them all up.

I am afraid that what you describe your wife as being like during the night-time, she needs to be on some sort of medication, until you can get things under control. The St s just ain't doing it for her by the sounds of things. You can cut the prescribed dose by half, and see if that still helps, and makes her less groggy and tired. You need to know for your own peace of mind, that she is not going to hurt herself. Your holistic friend is still your friend, he was probably just as concerned as I feel. She does need help, but try to find someone that is a GP, but is alternative as well, so you can work with both drugs and natural herbs/vitamins. What is your wife on at present in regards to that? Has she been allergy tested? I know that certain foods with me affect my mood and can even make me feel angry and resentful. It is really hard to help across the other side of the world, and I am always cautious advising people on what to do, when I don't know them personally. One of my closest friends has severe depression, and I know that in order for her to begin to get a hold on life, she needs medication. It is not the enemy. Wisdom using drugs is always essential. Another question which I hate to ask, but.... you stated life had not been too kind to her, has she dealt with all that, as unresolved anger/unforgiveness does affect our bodies......I am not negating her physical problems, but it is important to look at the whole picture. I hope you can get all the help you can for your lovely wife. You sound a very kind, concerned desperate husband, so I wish you all the best. Use the Internet as much as you can for info. Ask friends about their doctors, and lastly, pray that God will lead you in the right direction -

All the best to you and your wife