ambrotose, food intolerances, leaky gut and candidiasis (kinda long)

[Guest guest]

Russ,

The source of most of my research was obtained through PubMed, regarding

your questions about diet and candidiasis, food intolerances and

candidiasis, Nystatin, monolaurin, and c. albicans vaccination with same.

From their home search page, just type in the key words of the type of

studies you are looking for and you will find the answers you were looking

to, mostly to the same questions I have had about candidiasis. Their URL is

located at:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/

I find PubMed to be very helpful, and you can order the articles directly

from them through your library or hospital, if you would like to see the

complete study. I agree that it is often what these studies don't say, not

just what they do, that we must question. Furthermore, I don:t have much

faith that the American dairy and grains industries are interested in

funding too much research that implicates them as culprits! It never ceases

to amaze me the power of American agribusiness, and the big lie about

calcium from milk products would head the list... but that is another

problem.

At any rate, I still believe that when one does secondary research like

this, you have to first try to avoid advertisements, gather a round of info,

then go back to those advertisements and double check them out thoroughly,

too, in order to get the widest picture of available information..

Fortunately, there is a wide literature in existence about candidiasis,

food, and treatments, and you can get the specifics by simply typing in the

key words for the info you want from Pubmed, which for someone like myself

in university abroad, is the best resource available--you can even find

doctors that way.

I think it is interesting that are so defensive of Mannatech. I really

cannot personally testify for or against MLM products, yet, I have no reason

to believe that it solves the basic problem which is the conditions which

create systemic, chronic candidiasis. That is why I dont think it, alone,

can cure candidiasis in individuals with chronic, systemic conditions. From

what I understand, even though a number of products like you claim

Ambrostose, appear to cure candidiasis short term, in the long term, factors

such as diet and health, antibiotic/corticosteroid use, and vaccination

against candida are more highly correlated than the one-time die off.

I know that other remedies like Nystatin, fluconizole, monolaurin, pau

d'arco geez...even garlic, can be very effective in treating candidiasis.

However, if a combination of stressors are present after die off the

candidiasis infection will reoccur. Just what those conditions are can vary

from individual to individual; however a number have been indicated, and

food intolerance is one which is very often mentioned by both researchers

and, you got it, even those product pushers. Go ahead, look it up in

pubmed!

One way to prevent reoccurance, and one I would urge anyone on this list to

pursue, is with a c. albicans homeopathic vaccination (again....just type in

the key words above and you can read the research that is out there

regarding c. albicans vaccination with same).

The reason I take this position is based on the research regarding leaky gut

syndrome, characteristic of people with candidiasis and food intolerances.

Please remember that food intolerances are not the same as food allergies.

When I speak of candidiasis as a symptom, not a cause, I speak from a

holistic point of view whereby any unnatural imbalance --candida, diahrea,

and

headaches, for example, are considered a symptom, or response, to

something harmful--some stressor.

A similar analogy would be that of e.coli. We all have it in our gut, but

yet we are not all getting sick from it. That is because our body is

controlling its

existence, keeping it in check from making us very sick.

Candida of course exists in all normal people without overinfestation, i.e.

people without candida infections or what is commonly known as " systemic

candidiasis. " I thought that

the problem occurs when there is an unbalance that occurs, and candida

multiply, and there is an overinfestation--chronic, systemic candidiasis.

Please correct me this if this is not correct. The problem with

overinfestation is numbers--too much candida, not, for example, how big they

are.

It is an indication that the system is out of whack, due to the introduction

of some stressor in the environment, such as through diet, corticosteroids,

or antibiotics, or disease.

For example, most AIDS patients eventually end up getting systemic

candidiasis. This is because of the HIV virus and the inappropriate immune

response. Not because of candidiasis per se, but because of inability to

keep it in check.

So from the holistic point of view, systemic candidiasis is the response to

some invader, or stressor. Probably most of the people on the list

contracted candidiasis

after treatments or illnesses of this sort. (Some people even believe that

modern vaccinations are a source of initial stressor). Many of us were no

doubt born with it, but just hung in there all along thinking that this is

the way that life is supposed to be!

But it is not just one factor that is involved. Other factors must also be

present. Specifically, when you consume a protein that you cannot digest,

your autoimmune response is to attack that. In the gut, this leads to

symptoms such as leaky gut. From what I understand, this is because your

body, your immune system, attacked itself at the location of the foreign

protein--in the gut. The proteins are no longer properly absorbed, but

passed whole into the blood stream.

So why is it that some people get overriden, infected with candidiasis, yet

others don't? That is what I am implicating diet for. For one thing, human

beings

were not meant to eat a number of things depending on genetic makeup--they

cannot digest certain proteins found in things such as gluten (gliadins) or

dairy (whey, caseine). There is also individual consumption, health

history, and genetic varity.

There is an intricate

relationship between candidiasis and leaky gut. It is typical of people

with candidiasis to have leaky gut syndrome. Food intolerances are highly

correlated with candidiasis (again, I refer you to pubmed...I can:t speak

enough of their service, as they are non-biased and simply produce the

library of research, and you can look for correlational studies there).

I think it may

be difficult to say for sure that one contracted candidiasis before leaky

gut, or after. I think the relationship is key, tho, to defining systemic

candidiasis.

I definitley do not agree that it is so simple as " get rid of the cause of

the problem, the body will heal itself, " if in this case is referring

to " the problem " as being systemic, chronic candidiasis. In order to get

rid of the candidiasis short term, you can use any number of remedies (and I

really don:t care which one, as long as a knowledgeable practitioner advises

you) but for the body to heal itself you will also have to limit the food

proteins that you cannot digest. If you don't,

you will perpetuate the leaky gut syndrome, and just provide food for

candida growth.

A number studies mentioned in pubmed talk about the relationship between

candida and intolerable food proteins.

Many people out there with candidiasis dont even know they have

it. Nor do they know about their inability to digest certain proteins.

They just think that people are supposed to live this way, because, you

know, it can be a manageable thing...ask what AIDS people die of, its

usually pneumonia or some other horrendus disease, and the candida is often

considered secondary.

Many people with candidiasis can be successful at getting rid of the problem

of candidiasis initially, but if they are not aware of diet will be right

back in the boat. Futhermore, where to start with the diet thing is unknown

to most people, and also, it is not a blanket thing, it depends on the

individual...tho most holistic practitioners will identify certain

proteins based on genetic makeup, and glucose, sucrose and fructose.

As I understand it, candidiasis forms roots in the wall of the intestine,

opening pores large enough to let undigestible proteins (wheat, dairy) to

pass into the blood system. This causes an immunological response, thus the

" allergies " we all know too well. The Ig response to certain proteins can

be specified in Ig tests..

At the same time, it is these exact same

proteins that, because they cannot be digested and are therefore improperly

broken down and absorbed, provide a key staple for candida. That is why

many people will say that candida is a symptom, not a cause. A symptom of

putting this foreign food into your body that you are not meant to eat, that

you cannot digest in a healthy way, so you have to rely on a parasite to do

it for you.

Which would be better than just letting the proteins build in your system, I

imagine. I think we would all be dead from toxicity if candida didn:t take

care of them.

From this point of view, I think is right...candida is a cause. But

only one, and not even the key one. Stressors such as damaged gut,

undigestible proteins (toxins), injury, antibiotics...shall I go on...these

are the key just as much.

Soon, because our intestines are not properly breaking down and absorbing

foods, the whole autoimmune response is one that says basically

" attack any danm thing you can at this point, cuz I cant digest it! " It

recognizes all sorts of things as foreign and harmful. Candida is one thing

that thrives on these proteins. But I know for myself I started having

allergic type reactions to all kinds of things that didn:t use to bother

me...dust mites, soaps.

At any rate, since you can:t get rid of candida 100%, and people who are not

infected and overrun by the stuff have it too, just not to the point of

causing harm, I don:t think it is as easy as " rid of it and that:s all there

is to it. " I think that to remain well, you must maintain a diet that

strictly limits the ingestion of intolerable proteins...or you will be back

to square one, in most cases.

Of course, you could just take Ambrotose for the rest of your life and

forget about the food intolerance connection!

Just joking...but seriously, rather than look at things strictly as causes

and symptoms, you brought up the important point, which is to look at the

interrelationships.

My comments were based on studies that repeatedly show correlations, not

causes and effects: For example, the correlation between diet and leaky gut

syndrome, candida and leaky gut syndrome, and both of these and

autoimmune responses.

Hope this clears up my position, and I am interested in learning more about

how you have interpreted the cause of candidiasis.

Judith

Judith:

>I have to agree with you about the commercialism. I mean, I think it:s

good

>to suggest products that are out there, but advertising rhetoric is a bit

>mundane, and for advertisers benefit only.

I was where you are in that I used to think this too because that was my

experience and, being skeptical by nature, I was sure that everything was

that way too. And I almost threw out the baby with the bathwater re

Ambrotose.

>Ambrotose is certainly not the only product that will " cure " candida.

No one is claiming that Ambrotose is the ONLY efficaceous product for

candida.

> Infact, it wont cure it at all! People who are at risk for candida remain

at risk,

>even after a huge die off--and remain there for a long time.

Please show me a scientific study that backs up your statement.

In support of my claims, you may refer to the peer-reviewed report in

Proceedings of the Fisher institute for Medical Research, Vol 1, No 2 Feb

1999. It is titled: Macrophage Candidicidal Activitity of a Complete

Glyconutritional Formulation versus Aloe Polymannose. You may order a copy

of this Volume by phoning 972-660-3219.

No one has said that Ambrotose is the 'cure' for Candida. What ,I and

others, have said is that the body heals itself IF it is given the raw

materials to do the job. Also we have presented personal experiences to that

fact.

>

>Curing a chronic disease like systemic candidiasis means getting to the

root

>of the problem, not just getting through the die off, or even die off and

>rebuild stages. The key lies in maintainence. Ambrotose does nothing

>special for die off because many other products are just as effective in

>practice. And ambrotose does absolutely nothing to insure reoccurences

wont

>take place.

Please present your peer-reviewed scientific evidence to back up your

statement.

>Other factors, such as eliminating foods which cause intolerances and

simple

>sugars (glucose, sucrose and fructose) by

>themselves, have proven indespensible in long-term control of candidiasis.

This has become the 'common' knowledge.

>While Mannatech products, like many other products,

This is where you make a mistake. These products are NOT like any other

products - they are GLYCONUTRITIONALS.

>are very successful at

>helping destroy candida and other harmful (as well as good!) organisms, the

>true treatment and long-term maintainance for candidiasis is diet.

This is true as far as you take it. The problem with our diets is that

generally foods are empty of the right raw materials that the body needs to

heal itself.

>

>Pau d'arco and other natural remedies, combined with acidophilous, can also

>be very successful. I know a number of list members have taken this in

>rotation with other herbs. This can be just as successful as treating

>with monosaccharides. (never take any of this stuff without the advice of a

>knowledgeable practicianer).

>

>Monolaurin (lauricidin), a non-prescription, non-Mannatech non-patented

>natural remedy is another example. It is far less expensive than

Ambrotose,

>and in fact it is just as effective at killing candidiasis.

I would be interested to see the scientific research for this.

>

>Nystatin is a common allopathic remedy, and while it can be risky to the

>liver (I would never take it again, but for healthy individuals it may be

>okay) it proves very successful in killing candida.

Drugs are always toxic. Inappropriate prescription / application of drugs

is the 4th leading cause of death in North America.

>

>The reason why any of these remedies can work quite well is because when

any

>doctor sets you out to treat candidiasis, the anti-fungal agent is just an

>accompanyment to the main changes, which are diet. People who do not

>adhere to an anti-candida diet will rarely make it through the die off, and

>certainly will remain infected.

True. I agree 100%. And that is precisely the focus of and what the

Mannatech products do -- improve one's diet - in ways that have never been

seen before.

>

>In fact, numerous studies show that homeopathic remedies of live c.

albicans

>have not only excellent treatment records, but especially are effective in

>preventing recurrences, something that people like most of us listmembers,

>who have systemic candidiasis, should be MOST concerned with. Many of us

>has done the diet, the die off...killed those '))%%)= s time and again with

>verious remedies. But, killing

>candidiasis for a few weeks can even become easy, and chronic, til it

>reappears. Preventing reoccurences is far far more difficult than

> " surrounding and killing candida " successfully and temporarily, even if

>repeatedly, as ambrotose or monolaurin

>or many other products would.

This is why a vibrant vigorous immune system is the most important thing of

all. The C. albicans infection is really only the symptom of a deeper

problem - a dysfunctional immune system.

>

>What about prevention through vaccination with live candida, and what about

>accepting the fact that you may need to make permanent changes to your

diet?

>

>I think listmembers need to stop messing around with their health like its

>some flippant thing, that eating some dairy products or sugar or whatever

is

>more important than being exceedingly strict in order treat and prevent

>systemic candida.

The Mannatech management and scientists would wholeheartedly agree with you.

> Ultimately, it serves Mannatechs interests to promote the

>glycemic index and the idea that you can eat whatever you want--because it

>puts you at risk for prolonged and recurring treatment. The fact is that,

>most people with systemic candida, by the time they know that is their

>problem, have such messed up health that the road to full recovery only

>begins with clearing up the candida.

This statement is a clear example of your misunderstanding of the Mannatech

mission and the intent of the company and its scientists. Ultimately it

serves Mannatech best interests when people become well. I used to think as

you do in this respect, until I looked into it and got to know them better.

>

>The candida is the symptom, not the

>cause. For example, in my case, the cause is food intolerances and

insulin

>insensitivity.

No this is not the cause. The cause is inadequacy in your food. It is

deficient in the ingredients necessary to support a vibrant and vigorous

immune system. Long ago it was stated " let you food be your medicine and

let your medicine be your food " .

> Mannatech cannot cure that. Only I can. Fortunately I know

>how. I talk to people with diabetes and food intolerances like mine,

people

>who are very very sick from just eating a tiny bit of wheat. And I am not

>rare. People of my ethnic background are very high on the list for wheat

>and dairy intolerances. Look it up. Look up what casein, whey, and

>gliadins are and what they are used in and who can't digest them and why.

>Look up the symptoms of these intolerances. You will find, perhaps, that

it is just

>like what you have. Candidiasis is yet another symptom.

These intolerances result from problems at the level of the cell - all 60

trillion of them. When the cells are healthy, the intolerances will clear

up. The solution for healthy cells is in what you eat.

Make sure it is all organically grown in soils where the bacteria are

present that create the eight essential saccharides (the EES's) so the

plants can absorb them, so you can eat them. Failing that, you can

supplement your diet with them. However Mannatech is the ONLY supplier of

these EES's in a dietary supplement form.

>And why in the world anyone would want to keep eating some crap that makes

>them sick in order to have to keep taking some product for 30 or 50 or 100

>dollars a month, Mannatech or other, is beyond me.

When you spend $100 or $200 or whatever per month on food items at the store

that are actually empty foods, are you getting what you are paying for? Far

better to grow your own organically and preserve it for the wintertime.

You and I both know a lot of people who regularly spend $5 a day on junk

food, coffee, doughnuts, cigarettes, pop,etc. For LESS than that ($2.77

daily actually) they could be using, for example, Mannabars, that contain

the full daily complement of glyconutrients, phytochemicals, and phytogenins

(healing molecules derived from plants with reputations for healing) that

would actually improve their health as the days go by.

These Mannatech products could have been sold through stores. But that

would have meant that extra costs would have to be paid, such as

warehousing, transportation, overhead and retail profit. The savings in

these areas now can be paid to the people who use the products and share

them with others. That is why there are now many people like yourself who

actually are getting their Mannatech products for FREE and, more than that,

we are now able to get extra FREE product to share with those we love and

care about. Show me a store that will do that for you !!!

May God bless you as you look for answers that are suitable for you.

Russ