Weight

[Guest guest]

Every wrote:

> You think taking T4 would be better than taking T3 in such a situation? I

> wonder because the T3 is more immediately available, and the T4 has to be

> converted?

No, but T4 is all my doc prescribed. If I had T3 available, I would take

it immediately before the activity.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

So, the staring thing is a thyroid thing? HUMMMM.

Bev

Chuck B <cblatchl@...> wrote:

Bev,

You wrote:

> Chuck, what happens if you do to much exercise in one day?

There is more on this in our archives. The short version is that you

temporarily run out of T3 and become hypoT.

The rate at which you use T3 increases with exercise. Thus, you get the

paradoxical effect that exercise actually DECREASES your metabolism

instead of increasing it. I experience this as " the wall, " a sudden

extreme fatigue, causing me to just sit and stare for an hour or two. If

I limit the time and intensity of the exercise, I don't run into this.

Folks on this list tell me that taking some form of T3 will help, but I

am still just on straight T4, at least so far.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

How do you take just a little bit more??? Doesn't yours come in pill form? And

if you take just a little more than you are supposed to don't you run out? My

doc. won't give me anymore to replace what I took that I wasn't supposed to.

Bev

Chuck B <cblatchl@...> wrote:

,

You wrote:

> ... I've been trying really hard to figure out why this has

> been the case and how to modulate it.

One way is to take a little extra T4 on the days you know you will be

active. However, that can be dangerous. Only take a tiny bit extra.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Hi Bev,

Adding T3 made such a difference to me. It got rid of persistent bloating

and puffiness and my 3-4 hour naps in the middle of the day. On T4 only I

would be on my knees before the working day was over, there was never quite

enough of the right stuff T3 to keep me going. Just has Chuck described it,

as sitting for hours staring ahead unable to move was how I used to be, once

I had over exerted myself. I am now on 100mgs of T4 and 20mgs of T3.

Val

Re: Weight

> So, the staring thing is a thyroid thing? HUMMMM.

> Bev

>

> Chuck B <cblatchl@...> wrote:

> Bev,

>

> You wrote:

>

> > Chuck, what happens if you do to much exercise in one day?

>

> There is more on this in our archives. The short version is that you

> temporarily run out of T3 and become hypoT.

>

> The rate at which you use T3 increases with exercise. Thus, you get the

> paradoxical effect that exercise actually DECREASES your metabolism

> instead of increasing it. I experience this as " the wall, " a sudden

> extreme fatigue, causing me to just sit and stare for an hour or two. If

> I limit the time and intensity of the exercise, I don't run into this.

>

> Folks on this list tell me that taking some form of T3 will help, but I

> am still just on straight T4, at least so far.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What is T3. I am currently taking 125mcg of Synthroid. The energy level is

starting to come back, but not there yet

Carol

<veetee@...> wrote:

Hi Bev,

Adding T3 made such a difference to me. It got rid of persistent bloating

and puffiness and my 3-4 hour naps in the middle of the day. On T4 only I

would be on my knees before the working day was over, there was never quite

enough of the right stuff T3 to keep me going. Just has Chuck described it,

as sitting for hours staring ahead unable to move was how I used to be, once

I had over exerted myself. I am now on 100mgs of T4 and 20mgs of T3.

Val

Re: Weight

> So, the staring thing is a thyroid thing? HUMMMM.

> Bev

>

> Chuck B <cblatchl@...> wrote:

> Bev,

>

> You wrote:

>

> > Chuck, what happens if you do to much exercise in one day?

>

> There is more on this in our archives. The short version is that you

> temporarily run out of T3 and become hypoT.

>

> The rate at which you use T3 increases with exercise. Thus, you get the

> paradoxical effect that exercise actually DECREASES your metabolism

> instead of increasing it. I experience this as " the wall, " a sudden

> extreme fatigue, causing me to just sit and stare for an hour or two. If

> I limit the time and intensity of the exercise, I don't run into this.

>

> Folks on this list tell me that taking some form of T3 will help, but I

> am still just on straight T4, at least so far.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Carol,

You wrote:

> What is T3. I am currently taking 125mcg of Synthroid. ...

T3 is the form of the hormone that actually affects cellular and

metabolic function. Synthroid is synthetic T4, a fraction of which is

slowly converted to T3 by the kidneys and liver. The exercise problem

seems to occur when the conversion rate can't keep up with the demand

for T3, which is why a supplement that directly supplies T3 can be helpful.

The number refers to the number of iodine atoms attached to the

molecule. T4 has four. Conversion to T3, with only three atoms, requires

the action of an enzyme that strips one iodine atom from the hormone.

There is also a T2, which has very little potency but still more than T4

or T1, which is a metabolic product on its way out of the body. Another

waste product is reverse T3 or RT3. About half of the T4 gets converted

to RT3 instead of the useful and potent T3. Stress and starvation

increase the conversion ratio of RT3/T3, so those can also aggravate the

exercise problem.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

If I am on Synthroid, do I need T3? Do you need a script for it

Chuck B <cblatchl@...> wrote:Carol,

You wrote:

> What is T3. I am currently taking 125mcg of Synthroid. ...

T3 is the form of the hormone that actually affects cellular and

metabolic function. Synthroid is synthetic T4, a fraction of which is

slowly converted to T3 by the kidneys and liver. The exercise problem

seems to occur when the conversion rate can't keep up with the demand

for T3, which is why a supplement that directly supplies T3 can be helpful.

The number refers to the number of iodine atoms attached to the

molecule. T4 has four. Conversion to T3, with only three atoms, requires

the action of an enzyme that strips one iodine atom from the hormone.

There is also a T2, which has very little potency but still more than T4

or T1, which is a metabolic product on its way out of the body. Another

waste product is reverse T3 or RT3. About half of the T4 gets converted

to RT3 instead of the useful and potent T3. Stress and starvation

increase the conversion ratio of RT3/T3, so those can also aggravate the

exercise problem.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Carol wrote:

> If I am on Synthroid, do I need T3? Do you need a script for it.

You may need it. Most don't. I only seem to want it when I am unusually

active.

Yes, it takes a prescription. Therein lies the rub. Most doctors are

reluctant to prescribe it (Cytomel) or a combination source (Armour).

They think it is too easy to over do it, and that synthetic T4 ought to

be enough, since that works for most people most of the time.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

I really disagree as you know. I have not encountered a well person on T4

alone.

Gracia

> Yes, it takes a prescription. Therein lies the rub. Most doctors are

> reluctant to prescribe it (Cytomel) or a combination source (Armour).

> They think it is too easy to over do it, and that synthetic T4 ought to

> be enough, since that works for most people most of the time.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I started getting my energy back, so now I'm walking 25 miles a week. I get a

little tired by the end of my walk (4-5 miles). The weight is still not coming

off. I am on a strict 1200 cal diet. Any suggestions? P. S. Thank you for

your help

Carol

Chuck B <cblatchl@...> wrote:

Carol wrote:

> If I am on Synthroid, do I need T3? Do you need a script for it.

You may need it. Most don't. I only seem to want it when I am unusually

active.

Yes, it takes a prescription. Therein lies the rub. Most doctors are

reluctant to prescribe it (Cytomel) or a combination source (Armour).

They think it is too easy to over do it, and that synthetic T4 ought to

be enough, since that works for most people most of the time.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Gracia wrote:

> I really disagree as you know. I have not encountered a well person on T4

> alone.

Considering that T4 is the third most prescribed drug world wide, next

to hydrocodone with APAP and Atorvastatin (Lipitor), your sampling must

be skewed. Don't you count the people on this list?

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Carol wrote:

> ... Any suggestions?

I have found that heavy exercise and starvation paradoxically cause

weight gain. Both make you become hypothyroid, which makes you stop

burning calories and store them even more efficiently. If I had any

suggestions that really worked, beyond moderation, I would probably

become wealthy sharing them.

Sorry.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

double your calories, get enough fat, cut your exercise back and add T3.

Gracia

> I started getting my energy back, so now I'm walking 25 miles a week. I

get a little tired by the end of my walk (4-5 miles). The weight is still

not coming off. I am on a strict 1200 cal diet. Any suggestions? P. S.

Thank you for your help

> Carol

>

> Chuck B <cblatchl@...> wrote:

> Carol wrote:

> > If I am on Synthroid, do I need T3? Do you need a script for it.

>

> You may need it. Most don't. I only seem to want it when I am unusually

> active.

>

> Yes, it takes a prescription. Therein lies the rub. Most doctors are

> reluctant to prescribe it (Cytomel) or a combination source (Armour).

> They think it is too easy to over do it, and that synthetic T4 ought to

> be enough, since that works for most people most of the time.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

wow the situation is indeed dire. Chuck you should try Armour to see what

the difference is. I think maybe as a man yuo are able to tolerate T4

better than women. The women I meet in real life are OFF the wall with

anger issues on T4. And LOTS of other hypo symptoms.

Gracia

> Gracia wrote:

>

> > I really disagree as you know. I have not encountered a well person

on T4

> > alone.

>

> Considering that T4 is the third most prescribed drug world wide, next

> to hydrocodone with APAP and Atorvastatin (Lipitor), your sampling must

> be skewed. Don't you count the people on this list?

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gracia wrote:

> wow the situation is indeed dire. Chuck you should try Armour to see what

> the difference is. I think maybe as a man yuo are able to tolerate T4

> better than women. The women I meet in real life are OFF the wall with

> anger issues on T4. And LOTS of other hypo symptoms.

I remember there were others on this list, who were satisfied with T4

only. I know six women on T4 personally, not one of whom has a problem

with it. Another, one of the nurses at my doctor's office, evidently had

a bad reaction once on generic T4 but has no problem with Synthroid. I

suspect her problem with the generic was that the dose was wrong. I have

not met one person with the problems you say are common, although I must

believe they are, with so many of them on this list.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Hi Val,

That's how I am most of the time.. A trip to the doctor wipes me out and I can't

do anything else that day. As for sleeping , I have insomia, I'm so tired but

can't sleep without meds.

Bev

<veetee@...> wrote:

Hi Bev,

Adding T3 made such a difference to me. It got rid of persistent bloating

and puffiness and my 3-4 hour naps in the middle of the day. On T4 only I

would be on my knees before the working day was over, there was never quite

enough of the right stuff T3 to keep me going. Just has Chuck described it,

as sitting for hours staring ahead unable to move was how I used to be, once

I had over exerted myself. I am now on 100mgs of T4 and 20mgs of T3.

Val

Re: Weight

> So, the staring thing is a thyroid thing? HUMMMM.

> Bev

>

> Chuck B <cblatchl@...> wrote:

> Bev,

>

> You wrote:

>

> > Chuck, what happens if you do to much exercise in one day?

>

> There is more on this in our archives. The short version is that you

> temporarily run out of T3 and become hypoT.

>

> The rate at which you use T3 increases with exercise. Thus, you get the

> paradoxical effect that exercise actually DECREASES your metabolism

> instead of increasing it. I experience this as " the wall, " a sudden

> extreme fatigue, causing me to just sit and stare for an hour or two. If

> I limit the time and intensity of the exercise, I don't run into this.

>

> Folks on this list tell me that taking some form of T3 will help, but I

> am still just on straight T4, at least so far.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

HI Val,

Can you give me some names of the T3 med. so I will be armed when I go to the

new doctor on Thurs.?

thanks

Bev

<veetee@...> wrote:

Hi Bev,

Adding T3 made such a difference to me. It got rid of persistent bloating

and puffiness and my 3-4 hour naps in the middle of the day. On T4 only I

would be on my knees before the working day was over, there was never quite

enough of the right stuff T3 to keep me going. Just has Chuck described it,

as sitting for hours staring ahead unable to move was how I used to be, once

I had over exerted myself. I am now on 100mgs of T4 and 20mgs of T3.

Val

Re: Weight

> So, the staring thing is a thyroid thing? HUMMMM.

> Bev

>

> Chuck B <cblatchl@...> wrote:

> Bev,

>

> You wrote:

>

> > Chuck, what happens if you do to much exercise in one day?

>

> There is more on this in our archives. The short version is that you

> temporarily run out of T3 and become hypoT.

>

> The rate at which you use T3 increases with exercise. Thus, you get the

> paradoxical effect that exercise actually DECREASES your metabolism

> instead of increasing it. I experience this as " the wall, " a sudden

> extreme fatigue, causing me to just sit and stare for an hour or two. If

> I limit the time and intensity of the exercise, I don't run into this.

>

> Folks on this list tell me that taking some form of T3 will help, but I

> am still just on straight T4, at least so far.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Chuck,

I just want to say the synthroid is not working for me. I'm going to try to

send an attachment to show the symptoms I have and the symptoms the sythroid has

helped. This is just one of the imformation papers I plan to take to the new

doctor on Thurs.

thanks

Bev

Chuck B <cblatchl@...> wrote:

Gracia wrote:

> wow the situation is indeed dire. Chuck you should try Armour to see what

> the difference is. I think maybe as a man yuo are able to tolerate T4

> better than women. The women I meet in real life are OFF the wall with

> anger issues on T4. And LOTS of other hypo symptoms.

I remember there were others on this list, who were satisfied with T4

only. I know six women on T4 personally, not one of whom has a problem

with it. Another, one of the nurses at my doctor's office, evidently had

a bad reaction once on generic T4 but has no problem with Synthroid. I

suspect her problem with the generic was that the dose was wrong. I have

not met one person with the problems you say are common, although I must

believe they are, with so many of them on this list.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

bev wrote:

> Hi Chuck,

> I just want to say the synthroid is not working for me. ...

Statistically, that is not surprising. Most folks for whom the

medication works will not be motivated to join a discussion list or

support group. They don't need the information or the support.

Consequently, we see a lot more people here who are currently having

problems or are worried symptoms may recur.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

I think you might have something there, Chuck. Boo Hoo, Why me. A little

whining, now I'm better. Not really.

Bev

Chuck B <cblatchl@...> wrote:

bev wrote:

> Hi Chuck,

> I just want to say the synthroid is not working for me. ...

Statistically, that is not surprising. Most folks for whom the

medication works will not be motivated to join a discussion list or

support group. They don't need the information or the support.

Consequently, we see a lot more people here who are currently having

problems or are worried symptoms may recur.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

I have been on Synthroid since 4/12/05...not long. I was really feeling better

up until this week. I was on 75mcg, and I upped it to 100 about 2 weeks ago. I

feel tired again, didn't sleep well last night....my legs ache, and I'm dizzy

again. Should I go back to 75? I'm seeing a new doc in the mid of June....I

won't go back to the other one....

Carol

Chuck B <cblatchl@...> wrote:

bev wrote:

> Hi Chuck,

> I just want to say the synthroid is not working for me. ...

Statistically, that is not surprising. Most folks for whom the

medication works will not be motivated to join a discussion list or

support group. They don't need the information or the support.

Consequently, we see a lot more people here who are currently having

problems or are worried symptoms may recur.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Hi Carol,

T3 is the hormone that gets converted from your T4

T3 is the more active hormone and its what you need and use at cellular

level after conversion through the thyroid gland itself, your liver and

kidneys and through your various organs that keeps your muscles, heart lungs

etc everything about us, in our bodies, working.

In the U.K. T3 generic name is TERTROXIN.

Doc's are wary of T3 because of its past misuse to help people slim down, as

it speeds up your metabolism. The speeding up does not just affect your

digestive system, but EVERY bodily system causing them to work overtime and

wear out faster. That's why docs are wary of prescribing it and many do not

subscribe to the notion that some people have problems with converting the

hormone into it's constituent parts.

I think some people DO have problems, and I believe the key is to detoxify

the large organs especially the liver, to get the full benefit of thyroid

hormone either your own or a synthetic replacement.

Val

Re: Weight

>

>

> > So, the staring thing is a thyroid thing? HUMMMM.

> > Bev

> >

> > Chuck B <cblatchl@...> wrote:

> > Bev,

> >

> > You wrote:

> >

> > > Chuck, what happens if you do to much exercise in one day?

> >

> > There is more on this in our archives. The short version is that you

> > temporarily run out of T3 and become hypoT.

> >

> > The rate at which you use T3 increases with exercise. Thus, you get the

> > paradoxical effect that exercise actually DECREASES your metabolism

> > instead of increasing it. I experience this as " the wall, " a sudden

> > extreme fatigue, causing me to just sit and stare for an hour or two. If

> > I limit the time and intensity of the exercise, I don't run into this.

> >

> > Folks on this list tell me that taking some form of T3 will help, but I

> > am still just on straight T4, at least so far.

> >

> > Chuck

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Val, I was just reading in Broda book that England was the first

place where thyroid diseases began to be understoood and treated! But I

don't believe AT ALL that T3 isn't used b/c it has been abused and misused.

Big Pharma wanted to replace glandulars with synthetics, and told docs all

they needed to use was T4 meds. I don't believe there is any science to

back this up either.

Gracia

> Hi Carol,

>

> T3 is the hormone that gets converted from your T4

> T3 is the more active hormone and its what you need and use at cellular

> level after conversion through the thyroid gland itself, your liver and

> kidneys and through your various organs that keeps your muscles, heart

lungs

> etc everything about us, in our bodies, working.

>

> In the U.K. T3 generic name is TERTROXIN.

>

> Doc's are wary of T3 because of its past misuse to help people slim down,

as

> it speeds up your metabolism. The speeding up does not just affect your

> digestive system, but EVERY bodily system causing them to work overtime

and

> wear out faster. That's why docs are wary of prescribing it and many do

not

> subscribe to the notion that some people have problems with converting the

> hormone into it's constituent parts.

>

> I think some people DO have problems, and I believe the key is to detoxify

> the large organs especially the liver, to get the full benefit of thyroid

> hormone either your own or a synthetic replacement.

>

> Val

> Re: Weight

> >

> >

> > > So, the staring thing is a thyroid thing? HUMMMM.

> > > Bev

> > >

> > > Chuck B <cblatchl@...> wrote:

> > > Bev,

> > >

> > > You wrote:

> > >

> > > > Chuck, what happens if you do to much exercise in one day?

> > >

> > > There is more on this in our archives. The short version is that you

> > > temporarily run out of T3 and become hypoT.

> > >

> > > The rate at which you use T3 increases with exercise. Thus, you get

the

> > > paradoxical effect that exercise actually DECREASES your metabolism

> > > instead of increasing it. I experience this as " the wall, " a sudden

> > > extreme fatigue, causing me to just sit and stare for an hour or two.

If

> > > I limit the time and intensity of the exercise, I don't run into this.

> > >

> > > Folks on this list tell me that taking some form of T3 will help, but

I

> > > am still just on straight T4, at least so far.

> > >

> > > Chuck

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Val,

What kind of detox are you talking about? What do yo do while detoxing? I've

tried to do detox and couldn't complete them.

thanks

bev

<veetee@...> wrote:

Hi Carol,

T3 is the hormone that gets converted from your T4

T3 is the more active hormone and its what you need and use at cellular

level after conversion through the thyroid gland itself, your liver and

kidneys and through your various organs that keeps your muscles, heart lungs

etc everything about us, in our bodies, working.

In the U.K. T3 generic name is TERTROXIN.

Doc's are wary of T3 because of its past misuse to help people slim down, as

it speeds up your metabolism. The speeding up does not just affect your

digestive system, but EVERY bodily system causing them to work overtime and

wear out faster. That's why docs are wary of prescribing it and many do not

subscribe to the notion that some people have problems with converting the

hormone into it's constituent parts.

I think some people DO have problems, and I believe the key is to detoxify

the large organs especially the liver, to get the full benefit of thyroid

hormone either your own or a synthetic replacement.

Val

Re: Weight

>

>

> > So, the staring thing is a thyroid thing? HUMMMM.

> > Bev

> >

> > Chuck B <cblatchl@...> wrote:

> > Bev,

> >

> > You wrote:

> >

> > > Chuck, what happens if you do to much exercise in one day?

> >

> > There is more on this in our archives. The short version is that you

> > temporarily run out of T3 and become hypoT.

> >

> > The rate at which you use T3 increases with exercise. Thus, you get the

> > paradoxical effect that exercise actually DECREASES your metabolism

> > instead of increasing it. I experience this as " the wall, " a sudden

> > extreme fatigue, causing me to just sit and stare for an hour or two. If

> > I limit the time and intensity of the exercise, I don't run into this.

> >

> > Folks on this list tell me that taking some form of T3 will help, but I

> > am still just on straight T4, at least so far.

> >

> > Chuck

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Carol,

You wrote:

> I have been on Synthroid since 4/12/05...not long. I was really feeling

better up until this week. I was on 75mcg, and I upped it to 100 about 2 weeks

ago. I feel tired again, didn't sleep well last night....my legs ache, and I'm

dizzy again. Should I go back to 75? I'm seeing a new doc in the mid of

June....I won't go back to the other one....

>

Sounds more like you are not getting enough T4, especially since your

symptoms are hypoT not hyperT. If you are not getting a full replacement

dose, then you have partial thyroid function. In that case, your thyroid

output can change, up or down, but more commonly down. That means your

ideal dose is a moving target. You need to pay attention to your

symptoms and keep testing until things stabilize.

Chuck