ENGORGED Re: Bb transmission etc.

[Guest guest]

>

> you suggest that it will not regurgitate if it is not engorged

No, actually I am pointing out the significance of the word engorged

(versus attached, etc.) and saying that they are likely to regurgitate

when engorged.

I did not state what they do when not engorged. They might also

regurgitate when being removed improperly, or during any stage of feeding.

~Mimi

www.iammimi.com

[Guest guest]

My guess is that there are probably all sorts of things that could cause the

tick to regurgitate “ahead of schedule,” such as:

· It already fed for N hours/days on another host

· It already fed for N hours/days at a different location on the

same host

· It came in contact with a substance (soap, lotion, etc.) that

caused it to regurgitate involuntarily

· It was physically forced to regurgitate by some sort of pressure

either while attached or in the process of removal

Humans tend to think of nature in simplistic terms, but unfortunately nature

is complex and chaotic.

Discussions of “How long is long enough?” may be interesting academically,

but IMHO length of attachment is irrelevant diagnostically. It is often

impossible to know the duration of attachment. Even in cases when it can be

guessed with near-certainty, there may not be a concrete threshold interval

within which one is “safe.” From a diagnostic standpoint, the most prudent

answer is “we don’t know.”

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of

skrobison@...

Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 8:48 AM

Subject: [ ] ENGORGED Re: Bb transmission etc.

Honestly, in the last few weeks, I have read online both of these. I am

being careful to stick with " real " websites and not the info-advertisement

websites. Using this research approach I have run across several times, that

the tick must be attached approx. 36 hours feeding before it regurgitates

(some mention engorged others do not). Common sense would tell me the key is

" approx " . and that there are cases where regurgitation would happen much

earlier and sometimes later. There seems to be so many unknowns with this

disease. We just keep praying for those biochemists!

> >

> > The significance of a tick being engorged is that once the tick has

> > fed to being engorged, it regurgitates, thus spilling the bacteria into

> > its host.

>

> you suggest that it will not regurgitate if it is not engorged (visibly

enlarged), but I doubt that. I think it 'spits' after a certain amount of

time has passed, because the function of this is to keep the blood vessel

opened (prevent clotting).

>

> I don't think it spits when it is 'full'. Not sure about this though ...

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with this (below). Here is my personal experience. I had been

photographing on the Northern California coast for a few hours then drove home

(2 hour drive). On the way home I felt a deep and very painful pressure in my

chest. I thought " am I having a heart attack " ? But, the pain was on the right

side so I thought I must have pulled a muscle or something. I got home and

looked at my chest and found two ticks under my bra, on the right side. I

removed them right away. I never got any skin symptoms or arthritis symptoms

(until years later) but the pain in my chest stayed for at least a month. I

didn't get treated for acute Lyme at the time because I just thought it hurt

because there were 2 bites. My biggest symptoms today are all heart and chest

related so I feel sure that those 2 tics caused my infection. They were only in

me a matter of hours. My LLND thinks I have a strong Babesia infection, maybe it

can transfer faster than Bb. But, really I don't think we know anything for sure

yet.

Connie

RE: [ ] ENGORGED Re: Bb transmission etc.

Discussions of “How long is long enough?†may be interesting academically,

but IMHO length of attachment is irrelevant diagnostically. It is often

impossible to know the duration of attachment. Even in cases when it can be

guessed with near-certainty, there may not be a concrete threshold interval

within which one is “safe.†From a diagnostic standpoint, the most prudent

answer is “we don’t know.â€

[Guest guest]

I don't know, but it is the same kind of pain that I have now. My LLND thinks I

may have already had a Lyme bug infection before I got the strong Babesia

infection, maybe that's the difference. I had a number of tic bites before the

one that I described earlier that gave me such strong symptoms. I'm also very

sensitive, very aware of my body, so that may account for it.

Connie

[ ] ENGORGED Re: Bb transmission etc.

>

> They were only in me a matter of hours. My LLND thinks I have a strong Babesia

infection, maybe it can transfer faster than Bb.

yes, Babesia can transfer much faster and this would match your symptoms. Do you

think the pain when you found the ticks was due to bite wound? It is hard to

imagine that the bugs (Babs or Bb) cause other symptoms so quickly after a bite.

[Guest guest]

>

> Thanks for the clarification. I will say that my veterinarian makes a bigger

deal about LD preventative than any human medical doctor we have ever seen!

my impression is that over here (Netherlands) vets are also much better informed

than normal MD's when it comes to Borrelia / LD and Lyme testing ...