ITCHING

April 3, 2003

Hi Jack,

I was pretty much in denial for a year about my hep c before I did anything

about it. I have beginning cirrhosis and I'm on Peg-Intron and Rebetol now

(11 weeks down, 37 to go). So far, no jaundice or itching. I had my biopsy

in January and didn't have any problem with it, no pain during or

afterwards. They should give you a local anesthetic. Good luck.

Marie

April 3, 2003

{Biopsies can hurt like heck. It feels like someone kicked you in the

side with steel toed boots. But it also only lasts about a second. }

That is about the best description I've seen to date... I screamed when it

was done, and they had to do it twice. The doctor wanted a speciman from

two different areas of the liver. I had just finished an upper and lower

endoscopy, and so I was quite out of it still, but no matter how out of it I

was, the pain from the biopsy was as intense as childbirth to me, it's

something you don't forget...

Princess

April 3, 2003

Hi Jack..

i have not been on this site long.and have not posted

but maybe once?

I can relate to being in the denial thing at first..

i did same thing..then finally did just what u are doing

now a few years ago..had the sonnagram, biopsy [had no fear

of any pain or biopsy] just the results!!! Biopsy went

just fine..no problems..just don't jerk..and for me i turned

my head..did not care to see at all what they were doing!!

Had no pain meds..just a few valiums before hand.

But to my surprise with 30 yrs hep c and drinking..i came

back with only stage 1 (grade 2)..have quit all drinking..

3 years March..try to exercise lately and am doing better

on Diet.

Just take those 'baby steps'..all else will fall into place.

Oh..and the itching..for so me reason about around the time

of biopsy..9 mos after dx..i went thru this ordeal with 'itching'!!!

The dr. prescribed Triamcinolone Acetonide Cream..works great..

still use it occasionally..but the worst of itching went away.

Guess just one of those things with hep that come and go..

same thing happened with the nausea.

And fatigue..first thing people who go in to doctors not knowing

what is wrong..complain about..that ever so annoying FATIGUE..

i slept alot at first..but now i just get achy tired..and actually

have insomnia.!!

Don't trip too much on the biopsy..some, but minority have

had some discomfort, etc...but most compare it to NOT as bad

as a root canal!!!

take care*

stay posted..

-Sue

> Thanks for the info. I'm not sure about the full

> extent of my Hep c kinda been in denial for 12 mths

> since I found out. Thought I'd take the bull by the

> horns so to speak and find out what the hell is going

> on early this year. Meantime bull got me by the.....?

> and I have this relentless itch, tiredness, etc etc

> associated with jaundice. had more blood tests last

> wk, a cat scan today and am having the biopsy next

> week, which I heard was pretty bad but hospital

> assures me worst that can happen is death, so no

> worries.

> I'll keep you posted

>

> ---------------------------------

> Hi and Welcome Jack!!

>

> You can try a couple of things for the itching.

> Benedryl makes an

> over the counter lotion and it works pretty well to

> help curb your

> itching without having to take a pill.

>

> You can also try AVEENO lotion. It will not only help

> keep your skin

> in better condition, but does help the itch.

>

> Also, you can try Gold Bond Medicated Lotion. That

> works pretty good

> too.

>

> Good luck with your biopsy next week. I hope it comes

> out showing

> very little liver damage!!

>

> LeighAnn

>

April 4, 2003

I have to tell my biopsy experience so we don't scare new people real

bad. I had nothing for nerves, nothing for pain before or after. The

biopsy was a breeze and not painful for me. They even stuck me twice.

The doc used medicine that they use to give sticthes just right under

the skin. I did feel the jabs but it wasn't horrible and only lasted 2

seconds. It probably does matter how much the doctor knows.

April 4, 2003

that's strange. the only thing I felt was the lidocaine being injected to numb

the area and alot of pressure as he " punched " the biopsy. I have had 2 from 2

different doctors.

Joalle

Re: Re: itching

{Biopsies can hurt like heck. It feels like someone kicked you in the

side with steel toed boots. But it also only lasts about a second. }

That is about the best description I've seen to date... I screamed when it

was done, and they had to do it twice. The doctor wanted a speciman from

two different areas of the liver. I had just finished an upper and lower

endoscopy, and so I was quite out of it still, but no matter how out of it I

was, the pain from the biopsy was as intense as childbirth to me, it's

something you don't forget...

Princess

April 4, 2003

My first biopsy was just miserable. IT HURT LIKE HELL! The doctor

who was doing it didn't get enough the first time in and had to go

back for some more. IT HURT LIKE HELL AGAIN! A week later they

called me to let me know they still didn't get enough, and I would

have to go back for more. I went back for a second time. IT HURT

LIKE HELL! Two years later I went for another biopsy when I started

the HALT C Trials. I DIDN " T FEEL A THING other than the shot to numb

the area for the biopsy. My conclusion...... if it is performed by

competent people, other than the residual shoulder pain during the

hours afterwards, it is just not that big a deal. Aside from that

and the risks associated with ANY invasive medical procedure, if you

need it get it done. Like my third wife used to say, " You'll get

over it " .

> that's strange. the only thing I felt was the lidocaine being

injected to numb the area and alot of pressure as he " punched " the

biopsy. I have had 2 from 2 different doctors.

> Joalle

> Re: Re: itching

>

> {Biopsies can hurt like heck. It feels like someone kicked you

in the

> side with steel toed boots. But it also only lasts about a

second. }

>

> That is about the best description I've seen to date... I

screamed when it

> was done, and they had to do it twice. The doctor wanted a

speciman from

> two different areas of the liver. I had just finished an upper

and lower

> endoscopy, and so I was quite out of it still, but no matter how

out of it I

> was, the pain from the biopsy was as intense as childbirth to

me, it's

> something you don't forget...

>

> Princess

>

July 1, 2003

The July 1 New York Times Science Section has a long article by Abigail Zuger on Itching. I can send the entire article to anyone who wants it. Only the last few paragraphs are relevant to us. (Fortunately, none of us currently seems to be in the throes of liver-itch.) I'll condense that material below:

"Only a few kinds of itch can be relieved with antihistamine drugs like Benadryl, becayuse only a few, like mosquito bites and allergic skin reactions, are caused by histamine release in the skin. Most other(s) .... are seldom relieved by antihistamines. Instead, these itches sometimes respond to antibiotic creams, skin moisturizers, or drugs that suppress the immune system like steroids. ..... It is very common in people with certain kinds of liver disease . . . For these itchy people, antihistamine drugs do not work well, and creams and ointments do not work either. Frequently, no treatment is successful. . . . Intractably itchy patients like (a potential liver transplant patient) can sometimes be helped with drugs that counteract the effects of morphine.

These drugs work by blocking opioid receptors in the body's cells, and (they) are often used to treat people with drug overdoses. The fact that opioid antagonist drugs relieve itch that nothing else helps has suggested to scientists that in some patients itch may be caused at least in part by too many natural opioid molecules circulating in the brain. . . . The British woman (the potential liver transplant patient) was treated with the opioid blocking drugs naloxone and naltrexone. Her itch subsideded completely . . .

Incidentally, my doctors all agreed on Atarax as the most appropriate drug to treat my itch when I was extremely ill -- and extremely itchy. They told me that Benadryl wouldn't help except by making me sleepy, but that Atarax is specific for itchiness.

Harper

July 18, 2003

Marty,

I friend of mine who has Hep C recommended Epifoam. It is RX. It was very expensive. 2nd level on my Co-pay list but it works great. Don't laugh if you pick it up. I paid $20.00 and got a tiny little bottle of foam. I use it only when necessary but it really helps the itching.

July 18, 2003

Marty,

We go through this periodically as I don't think many people here have escaped it. I found Sarna lotion worked as well as anything I have tried (atarax, oatmeal baths, benedryl, cortisone creams, etc.)

-----Original Message-----From: msaire [mailto:msaire@...] Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 4:45 PM Subject: [ ] Itching

Dear Group:

I would like to ask about itching. I have had it for about a week, mostly on my arms and torso. I can't be more than a few steps away from a back scratcher. What are your experiences? So far, all I have done is scratch......

Hope everyone has a great week end.

I am working on disability papers.

Love,

Marty

____________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here

July 18, 2003

Marty....when I ws cirrhosed and itched I didn't connect it to the liver

disease and I just scratched at it till I ble....if its any comfort...it

wnt away as my cirrhosis progressed. We go thru this question about 6

times ayear and eveyone has a different treatment... a site I send from

time to time by Dr. Worman suggests some things but I think it is

outdated now as better solutions have come about....I'll see what I can

find...meanwhile a lot here have expeienced " the itch " and I'm sure each

has a favorite procedure.... sorry to hear you've got it....it can drive

you crazy....

love jerry

July 19, 2003

Elavil (generic: amitriptyline) really does the trick for me.

Before dx I used to wake up scratching and bleeding - ruined all my

sheets. My legs are so scarred I won't wear shorts in public

anymore.

It's cheap for an RX. I pay $9.99 for a month's worth.

Sandy

July 19, 2003

It is amazing how different meds are used for so many things. I remember Elavil being given to my Dad for anxiety years ago! It's wonderful that it can work for itching too!

Debby

[ ] Re: Itching

Elavil (generic: amitriptyline) really does the trick for me. Before dx I used to wake up scratching and bleeding - ruined all my sheets. My legs are so scarred I won't wear shorts in public anymore.It's cheap for an RX. I pay $9.99 for a month's worth.Sandy

July 19, 2003

: Thanks. I will look into Epifoam. Have a Drs. appt. this week. Marty

-- Re: [ ] Itching

Marty,I friend of mine who has Hep C recommended Epifoam. It is RX. It was very expensive. 2nd level on my Co-pay list but it works great. Don't laugh if you pick it up. I paid $20.00 and got a tiny little bottle of foam. I use it only when necessary but it really helps the itching.

July 19, 2003

Jerry:

I don't know if the itching is connected to my cirrhosis or not. I don't trust my judgement any more. Do people usually itch on just the upper half of their body or is it always all over the body? For me it is from the waist up. I can't figure out what is going on with my body anymore. There are just too many weird things and I usually blow them off and wait till they go away. This morning I could have sworn my eyes were yellow tinged, but I wasn't sure. My "liver" ached like hell all day and I am exhausted as usual. I'll look in the mirror tomorrow again.

Meanwhile it was a beautiful day here in Northern Michigan-near perfect!!!

Love,

Marty

P.S. I hope you and your mother are plugging along and supporting each other and able to find some joy in each day. I'm glad you have each other.

-- RE: [ ] Itching

Marty....when I ws cirrhosed and itched I didn't connect it to the liverdisease and I just scratched at it till I ble....if its any comfort...itwnt away as my cirrhosis progressed. We go thru this question about 6times ayear and eveyone has a different treatment... a site I send fromtime to time by Dr. Worman suggests some things but I think it isoutdated now as better solutions have come about....I'll see what I canfind...meanwhile a lot here have expeienced "the itch" and I'm sure eachhas a favorite procedure.... sorry to hear you've got it....it can driveyou crazy.... love jerry

July 19, 2003

Sandy:

The thing with Elavil is that it is an older tricyclic antidepressant and it is addicting and people develop tolerance to it. In the psych field we don't use it very much any more, especially in the elderly because it worsens cognitive functioning for those with dementia. Basically it is a pretty good med for sedation and depression. The lethality is high also if overdose is a potential. If a person can get by with low dose to control the itching, that's cool. Thanks for your response.

Marty

-- [ ] Re: Itching

Elavil (generic: amitriptyline) really does the trick for me. Before dx I used to wake up scratching and bleeding - ruined all my sheets. My legs are so scarred I won't wear shorts in public anymore.It's cheap for an RX. I pay $9.99 for a month's worth.Sandy

July 20, 2003

In much higher doses it was used for depression and anxiety. I take

25mg per night now...the hard part is remembering to take it by 8

p.m. so I won't be whoozy in the morning.

Sandy

July 20, 2003

I take a low dose - 25mg once at night 2-3 hours before bedtime.

Without it, I would not sleep well as I'd be up all night scratching

my legs.

From what I read, it was used as anti-depressant at levels of

1000mg. I can't imagine taking higher doses as it makes me sleep

like a log now.

Sandy

September 29, 2003

HUGE YESSSSSSS! I just posted about my experience using threelac. ---

In candidiasis , " didjeridan " <didjeridan@y...> wrote:

> I have had candida for a while but in the last couple of months i

> have been getting some itching in my " ass " (sorry).It may have

started

> shortly after taking threelac can't really remember. However my

> overall health has improved massivley. Could this be as a result of

> dead yeast etc been passed out of my system.Has anybody else taking

> threelac experienced this?

October 27, 2003

From: Carol Holt

Would all over itching be a sign of Candidiasis die off? Could is

possibly be a reaction to Pau D'Arco? I am taking less than 1/3 to 1/2

the recommended dose. I took the drops in water yesterday and today...

the itching started yesterday.

This is the " drive you nuts type itching " ... argh!

Dabs

Hi Carol

Typically it is a sign of detoxification - you are trying to eliminate from all

places, including your skin. Do drink more water, and do some dry skin brushing.

You can look it up in some old books.

You can do it with a cotton towel, a loofa, or vegetable soft bristle brush.

Strokes toward the center, towards your belly. The goal is to get the lymph

moving so that it can get rid of its load.

www.life-enthusiast.com

October 27, 2003

Thanks for the info. I do drink alot of water... I'll make sure I keep

it up. I'll try the dry skin brushing.... but I'll tell you I would

rather have nausea than this itching. I am going to stop the Pau D'Arco

for a few days to see if it eases up. I am taking probiotics, use

coconut oil and milk... and oil of Oregeno... my diet is very good so

I'll see how this goes.

Thanks,

Dabs

Pytela wrote:

>Hi Carol

>

>Typically it is a sign of detoxification - you are trying to eliminate from all

places, including your skin. Do drink more water, and do some dry skin brushing.

You can look it up in some old books.

>

>You can do it with a cotton towel, a loofa, or vegetable soft bristle brush.

Strokes toward the center, towards your belly. The goal is to get the lymph

moving so that it can get rid of its load.

>

>www.life-enthusiast.com

>

December 29, 2003

In a message dated 12/29/03 4:29:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,

bc.price@... writes:

<< y, I just asked n if she remembered what helped her itching, and she

said she didn't have Protopic for a long time after the diagnosis. What

helped somewhat was preparation H. We used to try the bathes, for everything

itched on n, and sometimes she would take 10 bathes a night. My husband

and

I took turns at night , for she woke up crying every night for months. Also,

they could tell that n's liver and spleen were enlarged on palpitation,

and it was tender to the touch.

>>

I thought of Preparation H. The pediatrician suggested vaseline for the

itching. I have that in the house, so I will try it. I will get Prep H

tomorrow,

or hubby can go tonight and get it, to have on hand just in case. Wow, 10

baths a night! You must have been exhausted. Caitlin, too, wakes up during the

night crying. Thankfully, this has slowed now that things seem to be

settling down a bit. Though we never know what the night will be like.

Thanks again .

Patty

May 14, 2004

Thank you so much ! I had remembered that n's rash had itched badly -

I thought about her when I watched Robbie fight it in the hospital - he was so

miserable. Rob's had the rash before - but it's always been " textbook " -

migratory -sometimes rapidly so, and it never itched until this flare. I hope

it's not a sign of things to come.

Like you, I hate this disease. Yes, I know it could be worse, yes I know there

are children out there with cancer an other diseases with less hope, and my

heart breaks for them too, but this is my baby. During Robbie's last follow-up

appt, he'd had a couple of good days following one or two really bad days -

surprisingly bad after his rapid improvement immediately following the pulse &

when the " team " asked me if I thought he was " turning the corner " in this flare

- my reply was very cautious - probably downright negative - we'd had several

ups and downs immediately following leaving the hospital that I just looked at

them and said, " I'd like to think so, but I can't say that I do. " I wanted to

shout " How in the heck do I know. " I thought later that this was probably the

first time they saw me when he was doing well in the office, and I had lost all

optimism about this disease - that's what's missing - my optimistic outlook that

things will get better. I do know they'll get better - but I also believe they

will just get bad again. We are not going to beat this. Yikes! I guess it's

time for me to get back to work. Luckily Rob doesn't see this side of me when

we we talk about this - he believes that the cure is coming, after all, he

helped raise money to help find it. I hope that n is doing better. Robbie

has been having lots of days with minimal pain compliants - and loving playing

baseball again - I should be more upbeat. Maybe I just need a good nights

sleep. Thanks again for being there - it means so much.

Val

Rob's Mom (6,systemic)

In a message dated 4/18/2004 6:37:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

bc.price@... writes:

> Val, You are in our thoughts and prayers. n's rash can itch very badly

when she is flaring. The doctors can never understand it, but it has been five

years now. The prednisone sometimes calms it down, but this last time we added

a strong antihistamine for night time. I hate this disease. I hope he gets to

come home soon. Take care, (n, 15, systemic)

>

May 14, 2004