Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Hi my last Thyroid test my Dr. told me is fine but he is going by the TSH only here is what my test was. TSH is 2.939 range is 0.4 to 4.7 uIU/mL Free T3 was 2.32 range 1.5 to 3.5 pg/mL Free T4 was 0.91 range 0.71 to 2.23 ng/dL Phil <d_timmsjosey@...> wrote: Dhea declines after 35, but 17 points from the edge is very very low for someone your age. If your free t's are borderline low, do you mean in the bottom of the range (ie. range is .8 - 1.9 and you are .8 or ..9)? If so, this would indicate a need for possible thyroid hormones. Have you ever had your thyroid antibodies tested? What's your TSH. The New TSH range was narrowed down to .3 - 3.0, and anything over 2.0 should be monitored very closely. WHere are you at. It is not at all uncommon for those with failing thyroids from thyroid disease to have low DHEA, hormonal issues etc... > Has anyone seen a normal ranges chart (by age) for DHEA. I'd like to see where I'm supposed to fit at age 41. My DHEA is at the low end of normal 17 points from the cliff. I have a lot of other related lows simular to Phil - low T, high E2, borderline low T3 and T4, low phosphorus and calcium, and a few other odd readings. Have a new doc appointment on the 29th, this will be number 6. > > L > > wrote: > HI JIm, > > My doc wanted to just " try " the dhea to see if it would budge his > hormones because it is like a master hormone to all the other > hormones. Also, he needs it anyway since his dhea is 140 and the range > is 80-450 and he should be somewhere near the upper end of the range > at his age. He has the DHEA of an elderly man and of course with low > levels of DHEA, it opens a pandora's box to age related illness, > autoimmune disease and even cancer. He already has alopecia. It's a > bald spot that has grown from 1 quarter in size to about 6 in 5 months > (not a fun thing to have on top of all this hormonal crap). Anyway, > She thought it was worth a try because she seemed hesitant to start > him off with testosterone. The testosterone she prescribed is called > chrysin. It is totally bioidentical (same thing his body already > produces, nothing synthetic whatsoever). > > As for being understanding, trust me, if it wasn't for me, he would > not be even getting help. I have been the one to research and do all > the appointment setting etc... I myself have an autoimmune disease - > hashimoto's - and hormonal problems too. I can TOTALLY empathize. I > have been dealing with undiagnosed hashi's since i was at least 15 and > finally got diagnosed almost 3 years ago. I just don't understand how > the both of us could be so unlucky. Now I need to worry about my children. > > > > > > Hi - > > > > Betaine, brad and Phil have already given you good > > advice and I would agree with all that they said. Let > > me just add - > > > > 1. I would be very concerned about your " hormone > > specialist " doc. To me, prescribing DHEA to correct > > low testosterone is voodoo medicine. If you do the > > research, you will find that, in males, DHEA can > > convert to either testosterone or estrogen. I don't > > know of any doctor who knows what they are doing who > > would prescribe DHEA to treat a testosterone > > deficiency. Which is not to say that the low DHEA > > should not be treated with a supplement. > > > > 2. What testosterone has been prescribed? Be aware > > that exogenous testosterone will shut down your > > husband's own production and the exogenous > > testosterone may not be enough to bring him back to > > where he was. He may wind up with lower levels and > > feeling worse as a result of this prescription. This > > has happened to many of us. > > > > > > 3. Be nice to your husband. He is having to deal with > > a very tough issue. I know from experience. > > > > Jim > > > > > > --- wrote: > > > > > Hi y'all! New here! > > > > > > My husband had a vasectomy 3.5 years ago. SInce > > > then, his health has > > > declined (although I was told on the vasectomy board > > > that this has > > > nothing to do with his isues). Finally I got some > > > answers and it > > > appear that his > > > testosterone is at the very bottom of the range 6.65 > > > (range 6.5 - > > > 28.1). He is only 32. He has become crabby, snappy > > > with the children > > > (has even cried to me because he says he is no > > > longer the same > > > person). He is also tired (fatigued) and the sex > > > drive is literally > > > gonzo. It has also been discovered that his estrogen > > > is low as well as > > > his DHEA (approx. 140 and it should be around 400+), > > > levels of a MUCH > > > older man. > > > > > > Is there anyone out there that can relate to what we > > > are going > > > through? I will do anything to get my husband back. > > > He is way too > > > young to be having these hormonal issues. My doc (a > > > hormones > > > specialist) tried to get his hormones up with > > > supplemental DHEA and it > > > has done nothing, in fact his testosterone dipped > > > even lower. She > > > today, prescribed testosterone. Thanks!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 here are some numbers for you. 100mg x weekly IM - no other HRT meds or meds that would bring down T or any other endo gland. Total T 321 (250-1100) % Free T 2.41 (1.1-2.8) Free T 77.3 (35.0-155.0) E2 36 (13-54) has been as high as 67 DHEA 97.4 (80.0-560) TSH 1.1 (0.30-4.50) has been as low as .7 TPO 5.4 (<30 Negative) T3/T4/T7/ all midline normal Calcium sometimes elevated Phosphorus usually low note: SHBG is very low and has been low since beginning. averages around 8-9 (7-50) both on and off HRT. So a few questions for the group. (Phil has referenced a few of these but everyone please chime in) 1. Low SHBG references a thyroid issue, yes/no? 2. low DHEA references bad adrenals, yes/no? 3. adrenals pull down the thyroid (TSH) but leaves T4/T3 normal (compensating for something), yes/no? what? 4. would these tests point to a pituitary issue? (i think so but the docs don't) sound off guys. next doc appointment is the 29th with doc #6 L <d_timmsjosey@...> wrote: Dhea declines after 35, but 17 points from the edge is very very low for someone your age. If your free t's are borderline low, do you mean in the bottom of the range (ie. range is .8 - 1.9 and you are .8 or ..9)? If so, this would indicate a need for possible thyroid hormones. Have you ever had your thyroid antibodies tested? What's your TSH. The New TSH range was narrowed down to .3 - 3.0, and anything over 2.0 should be monitored very closely. WHere are you at. It is not at all uncommon for those with failing thyroids from thyroid disease to have low DHEA, hormonal issues etc... > Has anyone seen a normal ranges chart (by age) for DHEA. I'd like to see where I'm supposed to fit at age 41. My DHEA is at the low end of normal 17 points from the cliff. I have a lot of other related lows simular to Phil - low T, high E2, borderline low T3 and T4, low phosphorus and calcium, and a few other odd readings. Have a new doc appointment on the 29th, this will be number 6. > > L > > wrote: > HI JIm, > > My doc wanted to just " try " the dhea to see if it would budge his > hormones because it is like a master hormone to all the other > hormones. Also, he needs it anyway since his dhea is 140 and the range > is 80-450 and he should be somewhere near the upper end of the range > at his age. He has the DHEA of an elderly man and of course with low > levels of DHEA, it opens a pandora's box to age related illness, > autoimmune disease and even cancer. He already has alopecia. It's a > bald spot that has grown from 1 quarter in size to about 6 in 5 months > (not a fun thing to have on top of all this hormonal crap). Anyway, > She thought it was worth a try because she seemed hesitant to start > him off with testosterone. The testosterone she prescribed is called > chrysin. It is totally bioidentical (same thing his body already > produces, nothing synthetic whatsoever). > > As for being understanding, trust me, if it wasn't for me, he would > not be even getting help. I have been the one to research and do all > the appointment setting etc... I myself have an autoimmune disease - > hashimoto's - and hormonal problems too. I can TOTALLY empathize. I > have been dealing with undiagnosed hashi's since i was at least 15 and > finally got diagnosed almost 3 years ago. I just don't understand how > the both of us could be so unlucky. Now I need to worry about my children. > > > > > > Hi - > > > > Betaine, brad and Phil have already given you good > > advice and I would agree with all that they said. Let > > me just add - > > > > 1. I would be very concerned about your " hormone > > specialist " doc. To me, prescribing DHEA to correct > > low testosterone is voodoo medicine. If you do the > > research, you will find that, in males, DHEA can > > convert to either testosterone or estrogen. I don't > > know of any doctor who knows what they are doing who > > would prescribe DHEA to treat a testosterone > > deficiency. Which is not to say that the low DHEA > > should not be treated with a supplement. > > > > 2. What testosterone has been prescribed? Be aware > > that exogenous testosterone will shut down your > > husband's own production and the exogenous > > testosterone may not be enough to bring him back to > > where he was. He may wind up with lower levels and > > feeling worse as a result of this prescription. This > > has happened to many of us. > > > > > > 3. Be nice to your husband. He is having to deal with > > a very tough issue. I know from experience. > > > > Jim > > > > > > --- wrote: > > > > > Hi y'all! New here! > > > > > > My husband had a vasectomy 3.5 years ago. SInce > > > then, his health has > > > declined (although I was told on the vasectomy board > > > that this has > > > nothing to do with his isues). Finally I got some > > > answers and it > > > appear that his > > > testosterone is at the very bottom of the range 6.65 > > > (range 6.5 - > > > 28.1). He is only 32. He has become crabby, snappy > > > with the children > > > (has even cried to me because he says he is no > > > longer the same > > > person). He is also tired (fatigued) and the sex > > > drive is literally > > > gonzo. It has also been discovered that his estrogen > > > is low as well as > > > his DHEA (approx. 140 and it should be around 400+), > > > levels of a MUCH > > > older man. > > > > > > Is there anyone out there that can relate to what we > > > are going > > > through? I will do anything to get my husband back. > > > He is way too > > > young to be having these hormonal issues. My doc (a > > > hormones > > > specialist) tried to get his hormones up with > > > supplemental DHEA and it > > > has done nothing, in fact his testosterone dipped > > > even lower. She > > > today, prescribed testosterone. Thanks!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 That's kind of what I thought too Phil. My husband's has been consistently low (140-155 and I re-read the range and is it is 80-560). I am pretty darn sure that a level as low as his is not just some swinging level. He's 32 for crying out loud, not 65. > Liam Lef.had a chart and when I linked to it they changed it and the chart is gone. But in the chart they said men any age need DHEA at 400 > Phil > > Liam <patrolbase19@...> wrote: > Has anyone seen a normal ranges chart (by age) for DHEA. I'd like to see where I'm supposed to fit at age 41. My DHEA is at the low end of normal 17 points from the cliff. I have a lot of other related lows simular to Phil - low T, high E2, borderline low T3 and T4, low phosphorus and calcium, and a few other odd readings. Have a new doc appointment on the 29th, this will be number 6. > > L > > wrote: > HI JIm, > > My doc wanted to just " try " the dhea to see if it would budge his > hormones because it is like a master hormone to all the other > hormones. Also, he needs it anyway since his dhea is 140 and the range > is 80-450 and he should be somewhere near the upper end of the range > at his age. He has the DHEA of an elderly man and of course with low > levels of DHEA, it opens a pandora's box to age related illness, > autoimmune disease and even cancer. He already has alopecia. It's a > bald spot that has grown from 1 quarter in size to about 6 in 5 months > (not a fun thing to have on top of all this hormonal crap). Anyway, > She thought it was worth a try because she seemed hesitant to start > him off with testosterone. The testosterone she prescribed is called > chrysin. It is totally bioidentical (same thing his body already > produces, nothing synthetic whatsoever). > > As for being understanding, trust me, if it wasn't for me, he would > not be even getting help. I have been the one to research and do all > the appointment setting etc... I myself have an autoimmune disease - > hashimoto's - and hormonal problems too. I can TOTALLY empathize. I > have been dealing with undiagnosed hashi's since i was at least 15 and > finally got diagnosed almost 3 years ago. I just don't understand how > the both of us could be so unlucky. Now I need to worry about my children. > > > > > > Hi - > > > > Betaine, brad and Phil have already given you good > > advice and I would agree with all that they said. Let > > me just add - > > > > 1. I would be very concerned about your " hormone > > specialist " doc. To me, prescribing DHEA to correct > > low testosterone is voodoo medicine. If you do the > > research, you will find that, in males, DHEA can > > convert to either testosterone or estrogen. I don't > > know of any doctor who knows what they are doing who > > would prescribe DHEA to treat a testosterone > > deficiency. Which is not to say that the low DHEA > > should not be treated with a supplement. > > > > 2. What testosterone has been prescribed? Be aware > > that exogenous testosterone will shut down your > > husband's own production and the exogenous > > testosterone may not be enough to bring him back to > > where he was. He may wind up with lower levels and > > feeling worse as a result of this prescription. This > > has happened to many of us. > > > > > > 3. Be nice to your husband. He is having to deal with > > a very tough issue. I know from experience. > > > > Jim > > > > > > --- wrote: > > > > > Hi y'all! New here! > > > > > > My husband had a vasectomy 3.5 years ago. SInce > > > then, his health has > > > declined (although I was told on the vasectomy board > > > that this has > > > nothing to do with his isues). Finally I got some > > > answers and it > > > appear that his > > > testosterone is at the very bottom of the range 6.65 > > > (range 6.5 - > > > 28.1). He is only 32. He has become crabby, snappy > > > with the children > > > (has even cried to me because he says he is no > > > longer the same > > > person). He is also tired (fatigued) and the sex > > > drive is literally > > > gonzo. It has also been discovered that his estrogen > > > is low as well as > > > his DHEA (approx. 140 and it should be around 400+), > > > levels of a MUCH > > > older man. > > > > > > Is there anyone out there that can relate to what we > > > are going > > > through? I will do anything to get my husband back. > > > He is way too > > > young to be having these hormonal issues. My doc (a > > > hormones > > > specialist) tried to get his hormones up with > > > supplemental DHEA and it > > > has done nothing, in fact his testosterone dipped > > > even lower. She > > > today, prescribed testosterone. Thanks!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 I would say PHIL without a doubt, that you could add in some Armour to your regime. If you are worried about a doc not treating you (and remember the TSH range is .3 - 3.0) which is not uncommon, they are really clueless about thyroid, you can always order overseas (I am sure yourwife knows all about this though). I would give my husband Armour with those levels. A small (perhaps 1 grain) amount may be all you need. P.S. that free t3 range is really low. Is that because of your age??? My free t4 was 5.2 (over the standrard range), but many other labs have a higher top end (6.2) and my doc likes to see mine between 5 and 6. > Hi my last Thyroid test my Dr. told me is fine but he is going by the TSH only here is what my test was. > > TSH is 2.939 range is 0.4 to 4.7 uIU/mL > Free T3 was 2.32 range 1.5 to 3.5 pg/mL > Free T4 was 0.91 range 0.71 to 2.23 ng/dL > > Phil > <d_timmsjosey@...> wrote: > Dhea declines after 35, but 17 points from the edge is very very low > for someone your age. If your free t's are borderline low, do you mean > in the bottom of the range (ie. range is .8 - 1.9 and you are .8 or > .9)? If so, this would indicate a need for possible thyroid hormones. > Have you ever had your thyroid antibodies tested? What's your TSH. The > New TSH range was narrowed down to .3 - 3.0, and anything over 2.0 > should be monitored very closely. WHere are you at. It is not at all > uncommon for those with failing thyroids from thyroid disease to have > low DHEA, hormonal issues etc... > > > > Has anyone seen a normal ranges chart (by age) for DHEA. I'd like to > see where I'm supposed to fit at age 41. My DHEA is at the low end of > normal 17 points from the cliff. I have a lot of other related lows > simular to Phil - low T, high E2, borderline low T3 and T4, low > phosphorus and calcium, and a few other odd readings. Have a new doc > appointment on the 29th, this will be number 6. > > > > L > > > > wrote: > > HI JIm, > > > > My doc wanted to just " try " the dhea to see if it would budge his > > hormones because it is like a master hormone to all the other > > hormones. Also, he needs it anyway since his dhea is 140 and the range > > is 80-450 and he should be somewhere near the upper end of the range > > at his age. He has the DHEA of an elderly man and of course with low > > levels of DHEA, it opens a pandora's box to age related illness, > > autoimmune disease and even cancer. He already has alopecia. It's a > > bald spot that has grown from 1 quarter in size to about 6 in 5 months > > (not a fun thing to have on top of all this hormonal crap). Anyway, > > She thought it was worth a try because she seemed hesitant to start > > him off with testosterone. The testosterone she prescribed is called > > chrysin. It is totally bioidentical (same thing his body already > > produces, nothing synthetic whatsoever). > > > > As for being understanding, trust me, if it wasn't for me, he would > > not be even getting help. I have been the one to research and do all > > the appointment setting etc... I myself have an autoimmune disease - > > hashimoto's - and hormonal problems too. I can TOTALLY empathize. I > > have been dealing with undiagnosed hashi's since i was at least 15 and > > finally got diagnosed almost 3 years ago. I just don't understand how > > the both of us could be so unlucky. Now I need to worry about my > children. > > > > > > > > > > > Hi - > > > > > > Betaine, brad and Phil have already given you good > > > advice and I would agree with all that they said. Let > > > me just add - > > > > > > 1. I would be very concerned about your " hormone > > > specialist " doc. To me, prescribing DHEA to correct > > > low testosterone is voodoo medicine. If you do the > > > research, you will find that, in males, DHEA can > > > convert to either testosterone or estrogen. I don't > > > know of any doctor who knows what they are doing who > > > would prescribe DHEA to treat a testosterone > > > deficiency. Which is not to say that the low DHEA > > > should not be treated with a supplement. > > > > > > 2. What testosterone has been prescribed? Be aware > > > that exogenous testosterone will shut down your > > > husband's own production and the exogenous > > > testosterone may not be enough to bring him back to > > > where he was. He may wind up with lower levels and > > > feeling worse as a result of this prescription. This > > > has happened to many of us. > > > > > > > > > 3. Be nice to your husband. He is having to deal with > > > a very tough issue. I know from experience. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > --- wrote: > > > > > > > Hi y'all! New here! > > > > > > > > My husband had a vasectomy 3.5 years ago. SInce > > > > then, his health has > > > > declined (although I was told on the vasectomy board > > > > that this has > > > > nothing to do with his isues). Finally I got some > > > > answers and it > > > > appear that his > > > > testosterone is at the very bottom of the range 6.65 > > > > (range 6.5 - > > > > 28.1). He is only 32. He has become crabby, snappy > > > > with the children > > > > (has even cried to me because he says he is no > > > > longer the same > > > > person). He is also tired (fatigued) and the sex > > > > drive is literally > > > > gonzo. It has also been discovered that his estrogen > > > > is low as well as > > > > his DHEA (approx. 140 and it should be around 400+), > > > > levels of a MUCH > > > > older man. > > > > > > > > Is there anyone out there that can relate to what we > > > > are going > > > > through? I will do anything to get my husband back. > > > > He is way too > > > > young to be having these hormonal issues. My doc (a > > > > hormones > > > > specialist) tried to get his hormones up with > > > > supplemental DHEA and it > > > > has done nothing, in fact his testosterone dipped > > > > even lower. She > > > > today, prescribed testosterone. Thanks!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 how does one get low DHEA?...other than normal aging? im 30yo and my DHEA is 175 ref range 80 - 560. tested 2x (1st time it was 183). just curious. philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: Liam Lef.had a chart and when I linked to it they changed it and the chart is gone. But in the chart they said men any age need DHEA at 400 Phil Liam <patrolbase19@...> wrote: Has anyone seen a normal ranges chart (by age) for DHEA. I'd like to see where I'm supposed to fit at age 41. My DHEA is at the low end of normal 17 points from the cliff. I have a lot of other related lows simular to Phil - low T, high E2, borderline low T3 and T4, low phosphorus and calcium, and a few other odd readings. Have a new doc appointment on the 29th, this will be number 6. L wrote: HI JIm, My doc wanted to just " try " the dhea to see if it would budge his hormones because it is like a master hormone to all the other hormones. Also, he needs it anyway since his dhea is 140 and the range is 80-450 and he should be somewhere near the upper end of the range at his age. He has the DHEA of an elderly man and of course with low levels of DHEA, it opens a pandora's box to age related illness, autoimmune disease and even cancer. He already has alopecia. It's a bald spot that has grown from 1 quarter in size to about 6 in 5 months (not a fun thing to have on top of all this hormonal crap). Anyway, She thought it was worth a try because she seemed hesitant to start him off with testosterone. The testosterone she prescribed is called chrysin. It is totally bioidentical (same thing his body already produces, nothing synthetic whatsoever). As for being understanding, trust me, if it wasn't for me, he would not be even getting help. I have been the one to research and do all the appointment setting etc... I myself have an autoimmune disease - hashimoto's - and hormonal problems too. I can TOTALLY empathize. I have been dealing with undiagnosed hashi's since i was at least 15 and finally got diagnosed almost 3 years ago. I just don't understand how the both of us could be so unlucky. Now I need to worry about my children. > Hi - > > Betaine, brad and Phil have already given you good > advice and I would agree with all that they said. Let > me just add - > > 1. I would be very concerned about your " hormone > specialist " doc. To me, prescribing DHEA to correct > low testosterone is voodoo medicine. If you do the > research, you will find that, in males, DHEA can > convert to either testosterone or estrogen. I don't > know of any doctor who knows what they are doing who > would prescribe DHEA to treat a testosterone > deficiency. Which is not to say that the low DHEA > should not be treated with a supplement. > > 2. What testosterone has been prescribed? Be aware > that exogenous testosterone will shut down your > husband's own production and the exogenous > testosterone may not be enough to bring him back to > where he was. He may wind up with lower levels and > feeling worse as a result of this prescription. This > has happened to many of us. > > > 3. Be nice to your husband. He is having to deal with > a very tough issue. I know from experience. > > Jim > > > --- wrote: > > > Hi y'all! New here! > > > > My husband had a vasectomy 3.5 years ago. SInce > > then, his health has > > declined (although I was told on the vasectomy board > > that this has > > nothing to do with his isues). Finally I got some > > answers and it > > appear that his > > testosterone is at the very bottom of the range 6.65 > > (range 6.5 - > > 28.1). He is only 32. He has become crabby, snappy > > with the children > > (has even cried to me because he says he is no > > longer the same > > person). He is also tired (fatigued) and the sex > > drive is literally > > gonzo. It has also been discovered that his estrogen > > is low as well as > > his DHEA (approx. 140 and it should be around 400+), > > levels of a MUCH > > older man. > > > > Is there anyone out there that can relate to what we > > are going > > through? I will do anything to get my husband back. > > He is way too > > young to be having these hormonal issues. My doc (a > > hormones > > specialist) tried to get his hormones up with > > supplemental DHEA and it > > has done nothing, in fact his testosterone dipped > > even lower. She > > today, prescribed testosterone. Thanks!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Hard to say I just got done with the book Adrenal Fatigue the 21 first century and in his book most that have Adrenal Fatigue or low Cortisol levels have low DHEA-S. And some have Thyroid problems. Phil Jack <rockin813@...> wrote: how does one get low DHEA?...other than normal aging? im 30yo and my DHEA is 175 ref range 80 - 560. tested 2x (1st time it was 183). just curious. philip georgian wrote: Liam Lef.had a chart and when I linked to it they changed it and the chart is gone. But in the chart they said men any age need DHEA at 400 Phil Liam wrote: Has anyone seen a normal ranges chart (by age) for DHEA. I'd like to see where I'm supposed to fit at age 41. My DHEA is at the low end of normal 17 points from the cliff. I have a lot of other related lows simular to Phil - low T, high E2, borderline low T3 and T4, low phosphorus and calcium, and a few other odd readings. Have a new doc appointment on the 29th, this will be number 6. L wrote: HI JIm, My doc wanted to just " try " the dhea to see if it would budge his hormones because it is like a master hormone to all the other hormones. Also, he needs it anyway since his dhea is 140 and the range is 80-450 and he should be somewhere near the upper end of the range at his age. He has the DHEA of an elderly man and of course with low levels of DHEA, it opens a pandora's box to age related illness, autoimmune disease and even cancer. He already has alopecia. It's a bald spot that has grown from 1 quarter in size to about 6 in 5 months (not a fun thing to have on top of all this hormonal crap). Anyway, She thought it was worth a try because she seemed hesitant to start him off with testosterone. The testosterone she prescribed is called chrysin. It is totally bioidentical (same thing his body already produces, nothing synthetic whatsoever). As for being understanding, trust me, if it wasn't for me, he would not be even getting help. I have been the one to research and do all the appointment setting etc... I myself have an autoimmune disease - hashimoto's - and hormonal problems too. I can TOTALLY empathize. I have been dealing with undiagnosed hashi's since i was at least 15 and finally got diagnosed almost 3 years ago. I just don't understand how the both of us could be so unlucky. Now I need to worry about my children. > Hi - > > Betaine, brad and Phil have already given you good > advice and I would agree with all that they said. Let > me just add - > > 1. I would be very concerned about your " hormone > specialist " doc. To me, prescribing DHEA to correct > low testosterone is voodoo medicine. If you do the > research, you will find that, in males, DHEA can > convert to either testosterone or estrogen. I don't > know of any doctor who knows what they are doing who > would prescribe DHEA to treat a testosterone > deficiency. Which is not to say that the low DHEA > should not be treated with a supplement. > > 2. What testosterone has been prescribed? Be aware > that exogenous testosterone will shut down your > husband's own production and the exogenous > testosterone may not be enough to bring him back to > where he was. He may wind up with lower levels and > feeling worse as a result of this prescription. This > has happened to many of us. > > > 3. Be nice to your husband. He is having to deal with > a very tough issue. I know from experience. > > Jim > > > --- wrote: > > > Hi y'all! New here! > > > > My husband had a vasectomy 3.5 years ago. SInce > > then, his health has > > declined (although I was told on the vasectomy board > > that this has > > nothing to do with his isues). Finally I got some > > answers and it > > appear that his > > testosterone is at the very bottom of the range 6.65 > > (range 6.5 - > > 28.1). He is only 32. He has become crabby, snappy > > with the children > > (has even cried to me because he says he is no > > longer the same > > person). He is also tired (fatigued) and the sex > > drive is literally > > gonzo. It has also been discovered that his estrogen > > is low as well as > > his DHEA (approx. 140 and it should be around 400+), > > levels of a MUCH > > older man. > > > > Is there anyone out there that can relate to what we > > are going > > through? I will do anything to get my husband back. > > He is way too > > young to be having these hormonal issues. My doc (a > > hormones > > specialist) tried to get his hormones up with > > supplemental DHEA and it > > has done nothing, in fact his testosterone dipped > > even lower. She > > today, prescribed testosterone. Thanks!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 WHat are those free's? They just say free t (t3, t4 etc..). Thanks! > > Total T 321 (250-1100) > % Free T 2.41 (1.1-2.8) > Free T 77.3 (35.0-155.0) > E2 36 (13-54) has been as high as 67 > DHEA 97.4 (80.0-560) > TSH 1.1 (0.30-4.50) has been as low as .7 > TPO 5.4 (<30 Negative) > T3/T4/T7/ all midline normal > Calcium sometimes elevated > Phosphorus usually low > > note: SHBG is very low and has been low since beginning. averages around 8-9 (7-50) both on and off HRT. > > So a few questions for the group. (Phil has referenced a few of these but everyone please chime in) > > 1. Low SHBG references a thyroid issue, yes/no? > 2. low DHEA references bad adrenals, yes/no? > 3. adrenals pull down the thyroid (TSH) but leaves T4/T3 normal (compensating for something), yes/no? what? > 4. would these tests point to a pituitary issue? (i think so but the docs don't) > > sound off guys. next doc appointment is the 29th with doc #6 > > L > > <d_timmsjosey@...> wrote: > Dhea declines after 35, but 17 points from the edge is very very low > for someone your age. If your free t's are borderline low, do you mean > in the bottom of the range (ie. range is .8 - 1.9 and you are .8 or > .9)? If so, this would indicate a need for possible thyroid hormones. > Have you ever had your thyroid antibodies tested? What's your TSH. The > New TSH range was narrowed down to .3 - 3.0, and anything over 2.0 > should be monitored very closely. WHere are you at. It is not at all > uncommon for those with failing thyroids from thyroid disease to have > low DHEA, hormonal issues etc... > > > > Has anyone seen a normal ranges chart (by age) for DHEA. I'd like to > see where I'm supposed to fit at age 41. My DHEA is at the low end of > normal 17 points from the cliff. I have a lot of other related lows > simular to Phil - low T, high E2, borderline low T3 and T4, low > phosphorus and calcium, and a few other odd readings. Have a new doc > appointment on the 29th, this will be number 6. > > > > L > > > > wrote: > > HI JIm, > > > > My doc wanted to just " try " the dhea to see if it would budge his > > hormones because it is like a master hormone to all the other > > hormones. Also, he needs it anyway since his dhea is 140 and the range > > is 80-450 and he should be somewhere near the upper end of the range > > at his age. He has the DHEA of an elderly man and of course with low > > levels of DHEA, it opens a pandora's box to age related illness, > > autoimmune disease and even cancer. He already has alopecia. It's a > > bald spot that has grown from 1 quarter in size to about 6 in 5 months > > (not a fun thing to have on top of all this hormonal crap). Anyway, > > She thought it was worth a try because she seemed hesitant to start > > him off with testosterone. The testosterone she prescribed is called > > chrysin. It is totally bioidentical (same thing his body already > > produces, nothing synthetic whatsoever). > > > > As for being understanding, trust me, if it wasn't for me, he would > > not be even getting help. I have been the one to research and do all > > the appointment setting etc... I myself have an autoimmune disease - > > hashimoto's - and hormonal problems too. I can TOTALLY empathize. I > > have been dealing with undiagnosed hashi's since i was at least 15 and > > finally got diagnosed almost 3 years ago. I just don't understand how > > the both of us could be so unlucky. Now I need to worry about my > children. > > > > > > > > > > > Hi - > > > > > > Betaine, brad and Phil have already given you good > > > advice and I would agree with all that they said. Let > > > me just add - > > > > > > 1. I would be very concerned about your " hormone > > > specialist " doc. To me, prescribing DHEA to correct > > > low testosterone is voodoo medicine. If you do the > > > research, you will find that, in males, DHEA can > > > convert to either testosterone or estrogen. I don't > > > know of any doctor who knows what they are doing who > > > would prescribe DHEA to treat a testosterone > > > deficiency. Which is not to say that the low DHEA > > > should not be treated with a supplement. > > > > > > 2. What testosterone has been prescribed? Be aware > > > that exogenous testosterone will shut down your > > > husband's own production and the exogenous > > > testosterone may not be enough to bring him back to > > > where he was. He may wind up with lower levels and > > > feeling worse as a result of this prescription. This > > > has happened to many of us. > > > > > > > > > 3. Be nice to your husband. He is having to deal with > > > a very tough issue. I know from experience. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > --- wrote: > > > > > > > Hi y'all! New here! > > > > > > > > My husband had a vasectomy 3.5 years ago. SInce > > > > then, his health has > > > > declined (although I was told on the vasectomy board > > > > that this has > > > > nothing to do with his isues). Finally I got some > > > > answers and it > > > > appear that his > > > > testosterone is at the very bottom of the range 6.65 > > > > (range 6.5 - > > > > 28.1). He is only 32. He has become crabby, snappy > > > > with the children > > > > (has even cried to me because he says he is no > > > > longer the same > > > > person). He is also tired (fatigued) and the sex > > > > drive is literally > > > > gonzo. It has also been discovered that his estrogen > > > > is low as well as > > > > his DHEA (approx. 140 and it should be around 400+), > > > > levels of a MUCH > > > > older man. > > > > > > > > Is there anyone out there that can relate to what we > > > > are going > > > > through? I will do anything to get my husband back. > > > > He is way too > > > > young to be having these hormonal issues. My doc (a > > > > hormones > > > > specialist) tried to get his hormones up with > > > > supplemental DHEA and it > > > > has done nothing, in fact his testosterone dipped > > > > even lower. She > > > > today, prescribed testosterone. Thanks!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Stress, low levels of hormones like progesterone, autoimmune disease like grave's, hashimoto's, lupus, diabetes, RA etc... It can be so many factors. My husband's is low too. He is currently supplementing, but 50mg/day barely budges it. > how does one get low DHEA?...other than normal aging? im 30yo and my DHEA is 175 ref range 80 - 560. tested 2x (1st time it was 183). > > just curious. > > philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: > Liam Lef.had a chart and when I linked to it they changed it and the chart is gone. But in the chart they said men any age need DHEA at 400 > Phil > > Liam <patrolbase19@...> wrote: > Has anyone seen a normal ranges chart (by age) for DHEA. I'd like to see where I'm supposed to fit at age 41. My DHEA is at the low end of normal 17 points from the cliff. I have a lot of other related lows simular to Phil - low T, high E2, borderline low T3 and T4, low phosphorus and calcium, and a few other odd readings. Have a new doc appointment on the 29th, this will be number 6. > > L > > wrote: > HI JIm, > > My doc wanted to just " try " the dhea to see if it would budge his > hormones because it is like a master hormone to all the other > hormones. Also, he needs it anyway since his dhea is 140 and the range > is 80-450 and he should be somewhere near the upper end of the range > at his age. He has the DHEA of an elderly man and of course with low > levels of DHEA, it opens a pandora's box to age related illness, > autoimmune disease and even cancer. He already has alopecia. It's a > bald spot that has grown from 1 quarter in size to about 6 in 5 months > (not a fun thing to have on top of all this hormonal crap). Anyway, > She thought it was worth a try because she seemed hesitant to start > him off with testosterone. The testosterone she prescribed is called > chrysin. It is totally bioidentical (same thing his body already > produces, nothing synthetic whatsoever). > > As for being understanding, trust me, if it wasn't for me, he would > not be even getting help. I have been the one to research and do all > the appointment setting etc... I myself have an autoimmune disease - > hashimoto's - and hormonal problems too. I can TOTALLY empathize. I > have been dealing with undiagnosed hashi's since i was at least 15 and > finally got diagnosed almost 3 years ago. I just don't understand how > the both of us could be so unlucky. Now I need to worry about my children. > > > > > Hi - > > > > Betaine, brad and Phil have already given you good > > advice and I would agree with all that they said. Let > > me just add - > > > > 1. I would be very concerned about your " hormone > > specialist " doc. To me, prescribing DHEA to correct > > low testosterone is voodoo medicine. If you do the > > research, you will find that, in males, DHEA can > > convert to either testosterone or estrogen. I don't > > know of any doctor who knows what they are doing who > > would prescribe DHEA to treat a testosterone > > deficiency. Which is not to say that the low DHEA > > should not be treated with a supplement. > > > > 2. What testosterone has been prescribed? Be aware > > that exogenous testosterone will shut down your > > husband's own production and the exogenous > > testosterone may not be enough to bring him back to > > where he was. He may wind up with lower levels and > > feeling worse as a result of this prescription. This > > has happened to many of us. > > > > > > 3. Be nice to your husband. He is having to deal with > > a very tough issue. I know from experience. > > > > Jim > > > > > > --- wrote: > > > > > Hi y'all! New here! > > > > > > My husband had a vasectomy 3.5 years ago. SInce > > > then, his health has > > > declined (although I was told on the vasectomy board > > > that this has > > > nothing to do with his isues). Finally I got some > > > answers and it > > > appear that his > > > testosterone is at the very bottom of the range 6.65 > > > (range 6.5 - > > > 28.1). He is only 32. He has become crabby, snappy > > > with the children > > > (has even cried to me because he says he is no > > > longer the same > > > person). He is also tired (fatigued) and the sex > > > drive is literally > > > gonzo. It has also been discovered that his estrogen > > > is low as well as > > > his DHEA (approx. 140 and it should be around 400+), > > > levels of a MUCH > > > older man. > > > > > > Is there anyone out there that can relate to what we > > > are going > > > through? I will do anything to get my husband back. > > > He is way too > > > young to be having these hormonal issues. My doc (a > > > hormones > > > specialist) tried to get his hormones up with > > > supplemental DHEA and it > > > has done nothing, in fact his testosterone dipped > > > even lower. She > > > today, prescribed testosterone. Thanks!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Thyroid disease and some level or cortisol malfunction almost always run hand in hand simply because people are missed and the body works so hard for so long trying to keep up. The adrenals try to give the body a boost when the thyroid is failing, and eventually they drain out (become fatigued). If doctor's would just get educated with thyroid disease, they would realize that the lab ranges are far too broad and actually include a lot of thyroid sick people. > Hard to say I just got done with the book Adrenal Fatigue the 21 first century and in his book most that have Adrenal Fatigue or low Cortisol levels have low DHEA-S. And some have Thyroid problems. > Phil > > Jack <rockin813@...> wrote: > how does one get low DHEA?...other than normal aging? im 30yo and my DHEA is 175 ref range 80 - 560. tested 2x (1st time it was 183). > > just curious. > > philip georgian > wrote: > Liam Lef.had a chart and when I linked to it they changed it and the chart is gone. But in the chart they said men any age need DHEA at 400 > Phil > > Liam > wrote: > Has anyone seen a normal ranges chart (by age) for DHEA. I'd like to see where I'm supposed to fit at age 41. My DHEA is at the low end of normal 17 points from the cliff. I have a lot of other related lows simular to Phil - low T, high E2, borderline low T3 and T4, low phosphorus and calcium, and a few other odd readings. Have a new doc appointment on the 29th, this will be number 6. > > L > > wrote: > HI JIm, > > My doc wanted to just " try " the dhea to see if it would budge his > hormones because it is like a master hormone to all the other > hormones. Also, he needs it anyway since his dhea is 140 and the range > is 80-450 and he should be somewhere near the upper end of the range > at his age. He has the DHEA of an elderly man and of course with low > levels of DHEA, it opens a pandora's box to age related illness, > autoimmune disease and even cancer. He already has alopecia. It's a > bald spot that has grown from 1 quarter in size to about 6 in 5 months > (not a fun thing to have on top of all this hormonal crap). Anyway, > She thought it was worth a try because she seemed hesitant to start > him off with testosterone. The testosterone she prescribed is called > chrysin. It is totally bioidentical (same thing his body already > produces, nothing synthetic whatsoever). > > As for being understanding, trust me, if it wasn't for me, he would > not be even getting help. I have been the one to research and do all > the appointment setting etc... I myself have an autoimmune disease - > hashimoto's - and hormonal problems too. I can TOTALLY empathize. I > have been dealing with undiagnosed hashi's since i was at least 15 and > finally got diagnosed almost 3 years ago. I just don't understand how > the both of us could be so unlucky. Now I need to worry about my children. > > > > > Hi - > > > > Betaine, brad and Phil have already given you good > > advice and I would agree with all that they said. Let > > me just add - > > > > 1. I would be very concerned about your " hormone > > specialist " doc. To me, prescribing DHEA to correct > > low testosterone is voodoo medicine. If you do the > > research, you will find that, in males, DHEA can > > convert to either testosterone or estrogen. I don't > > know of any doctor who knows what they are doing who > > would prescribe DHEA to treat a testosterone > > deficiency. Which is not to say that the low DHEA > > should not be treated with a supplement. > > > > 2. What testosterone has been prescribed? Be aware > > that exogenous testosterone will shut down your > > husband's own production and the exogenous > > testosterone may not be enough to bring him back to > > where he was. He may wind up with lower levels and > > feeling worse as a result of this prescription. This > > has happened to many of us. > > > > > > 3. Be nice to your husband. He is having to deal with > > a very tough issue. I know from experience. > > > > Jim > > > > > > --- wrote: > > > > > Hi y'all! New here! > > > > > > My husband had a vasectomy 3.5 years ago. SInce > > > then, his health has > > > declined (although I was told on the vasectomy board > > > that this has > > > nothing to do with his isues). Finally I got some > > > answers and it > > > appear that his > > > testosterone is at the very bottom of the range 6.65 > > > (range 6.5 - > > > 28.1). He is only 32. He has become crabby, snappy > > > with the children > > > (has even cried to me because he says he is no > > > longer the same > > > person). He is also tired (fatigued) and the sex > > > drive is literally > > > gonzo. It has also been discovered that his estrogen > > > is low as well as > > > his DHEA (approx. 140 and it should be around 400+), > > > levels of a MUCH > > > older man. > > > > > > Is there anyone out there that can relate to what we > > > are going > > > through? I will do anything to get my husband back. > > > He is way too > > > young to be having these hormonal issues. My doc (a > > > hormones > > > specialist) tried to get his hormones up with > > > supplemental DHEA and it > > > has done nothing, in fact his testosterone dipped > > > even lower. She > > > today, prescribed testosterone. Thanks!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Thanks for the reply I am doing Isocort to help bring up my Cortisol levels they are dam low. I will be doing a test next week and will redo the tests to see if my Thyroid dose better if not then I am going to press my Dr. on this more. I need to find a study that will show him he is wrong. If not I am going to see Dr. here in MI. He is one of the best on all of this stuff. Problem is he is not on my Dr.'s list for BCBS but his cost is not that bad and it's the drive like 4 hrs round trip. By the way I am 62. My wife is seeing a good Dr. for her Thyroid and he just put her on Fish Oil and DHEA. Her test showed her lower then the bottom of the range. She is doing 25mgs 2x's a day now she is feeling the best she ever felt. One more question what is the normal dose of Armour I have read that anything under 3 grains is not a normal dose and it could mean low cortisol or Iron problems. I ask this because my wife can take more then 115 mgs. or she feels hipper yet her Dr. says she has Adrenal Fatigue. And will not give her HC to help her Adrenals. I got most of this stuff from this site. http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ Phil <d_timmsjosey@...> wrote: I would say PHIL without a doubt, that you could add in some Armour to your regime. If you are worried about a doc not treating you (and remember the TSH range is .3 - 3.0) which is not uncommon, they are really clueless about thyroid, you can always order overseas (I am sure yourwife knows all about this though). I would give my husband Armour with those levels. A small (perhaps 1 grain) amount may be all you need. P.S. that free t3 range is really low. Is that because of your age??? My free t4 was 5.2 (over the standrard range), but many other labs have a higher top end (6.2) and my doc likes to see mine between 5 and 6. > Hi my last Thyroid test my Dr. told me is fine but he is going by the TSH only here is what my test was. > > TSH is 2.939 range is 0.4 to 4.7 uIU/mL > Free T3 was 2.32 range 1.5 to 3.5 pg/mL > Free T4 was 0.91 range 0.71 to 2.23 ng/dL > > Phil > wrote: > Dhea declines after 35, but 17 points from the edge is very very low > for someone your age. If your free t's are borderline low, do you mean > in the bottom of the range (ie. range is .8 - 1.9 and you are .8 or > .9)? If so, this would indicate a need for possible thyroid hormones. > Have you ever had your thyroid antibodies tested? What's your TSH. The > New TSH range was narrowed down to .3 - 3.0, and anything over 2.0 > should be monitored very closely. WHere are you at. It is not at all > uncommon for those with failing thyroids from thyroid disease to have > low DHEA, hormonal issues etc... > > > > Has anyone seen a normal ranges chart (by age) for DHEA. I'd like to > see where I'm supposed to fit at age 41. My DHEA is at the low end of > normal 17 points from the cliff. I have a lot of other related lows > simular to Phil - low T, high E2, borderline low T3 and T4, low > phosphorus and calcium, and a few other odd readings. Have a new doc > appointment on the 29th, this will be number 6. > > > > L > > > > wrote: > > HI JIm, > > > > My doc wanted to just " try " the dhea to see if it would budge his > > hormones because it is like a master hormone to all the other > > hormones. Also, he needs it anyway since his dhea is 140 and the range > > is 80-450 and he should be somewhere near the upper end of the range > > at his age. He has the DHEA of an elderly man and of course with low > > levels of DHEA, it opens a pandora's box to age related illness, > > autoimmune disease and even cancer. He already has alopecia. It's a > > bald spot that has grown from 1 quarter in size to about 6 in 5 months > > (not a fun thing to have on top of all this hormonal crap). Anyway, > > She thought it was worth a try because she seemed hesitant to start > > him off with testosterone. The testosterone she prescribed is called > > chrysin. It is totally bioidentical (same thing his body already > > produces, nothing synthetic whatsoever). > > > > As for being understanding, trust me, if it wasn't for me, he would > > not be even getting help. I have been the one to research and do all > > the appointment setting etc... I myself have an autoimmune disease - > > hashimoto's - and hormonal problems too. I can TOTALLY empathize. I > > have been dealing with undiagnosed hashi's since i was at least 15 and > > finally got diagnosed almost 3 years ago. I just don't understand how > > the both of us could be so unlucky. Now I need to worry about my > children. > > > > > > > > > > > Hi - > > > > > > Betaine, brad and Phil have already given you good > > > advice and I would agree with all that they said. Let > > > me just add - > > > > > > 1. I would be very concerned about your " hormone > > > specialist " doc. To me, prescribing DHEA to correct > > > low testosterone is voodoo medicine. If you do the > > > research, you will find that, in males, DHEA can > > > convert to either testosterone or estrogen. I don't > > > know of any doctor who knows what they are doing who > > > would prescribe DHEA to treat a testosterone > > > deficiency. Which is not to say that the low DHEA > > > should not be treated with a supplement. > > > > > > 2. What testosterone has been prescribed? Be aware > > > that exogenous testosterone will shut down your > > > husband's own production and the exogenous > > > testosterone may not be enough to bring him back to > > > where he was. He may wind up with lower levels and > > > feeling worse as a result of this prescription. This > > > has happened to many of us. > > > > > > > > > 3. Be nice to your husband. He is having to deal with > > > a very tough issue. I know from experience. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > --- wrote: > > > > > > > Hi y'all! New here! > > > > > > > > My husband had a vasectomy 3.5 years ago. SInce > > > > then, his health has > > > > declined (although I was told on the vasectomy board > > > > that this has > > > > nothing to do with his isues). Finally I got some > > > > answers and it > > > > appear that his > > > > testosterone is at the very bottom of the range 6.65 > > > > (range 6.5 - > > > > 28.1). He is only 32. He has become crabby, snappy > > > > with the children > > > > (has even cried to me because he says he is no > > > > longer the same > > > > person). He is also tired (fatigued) and the sex > > > > drive is literally > > > > gonzo. It has also been discovered that his estrogen > > > > is low as well as > > > > his DHEA (approx. 140 and it should be around 400+), > > > > levels of a MUCH > > > > older man. > > > > > > > > Is there anyone out there that can relate to what we > > > > are going > > > > through? I will do anything to get my husband back. > > > > He is way too > > > > young to be having these hormonal issues. My doc (a > > > > hormones > > > > specialist) tried to get his hormones up with > > > > supplemental DHEA and it > > > > has done nothing, in fact his testosterone dipped > > > > even lower. She > > > > today, prescribed testosterone. Thanks!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 personally I'm getting two different stories on why I have low DHEA. 1. Adrenal insufficiency which is tied into the whole endo thing. Some docs subscribe to this, some do not. The test results don't lie but treatment regimens vary. I'm getting the impression that the pituitary brings down the adrenals (DHEA/Cortisol) which brings down the thyroid (FT3/FT4) that brings down testosterone. It's not enough to warrant Cushings but all tests fall into the low normal. Just enough to make you feel like poopy kaka all the time. How all of this fits together is beyond me but I'm still reading. 2. Stress/depression brings down the DHEA/Corisol which brings down testostone. Treatment is with antidepressants and toughing it out. I personally don't subscribe to this theory since it requires treating symtoms with the wrong meds based on a subjective diagnosis.(Ask Phil about this and he'll hit the roof and for good reason.) L Jack <rockin813@...> wrote: how does one get low DHEA?...other than normal aging? im 30yo and my DHEA is 175 ref range 80 - 560. tested 2x (1st time it was 183). just curious. philip georgian wrote: Liam Lef.had a chart and when I linked to it they changed it and the chart is gone. But in the chart they said men any age need DHEA at 400 Phil Liam wrote: Has anyone seen a normal ranges chart (by age) for DHEA. I'd like to see where I'm supposed to fit at age 41. My DHEA is at the low end of normal 17 points from the cliff. I have a lot of other related lows simular to Phil - low T, high E2, borderline low T3 and T4, low phosphorus and calcium, and a few other odd readings. Have a new doc appointment on the 29th, this will be number 6. L wrote: HI JIm, My doc wanted to just " try " the dhea to see if it would budge his hormones because it is like a master hormone to all the other hormones. Also, he needs it anyway since his dhea is 140 and the range is 80-450 and he should be somewhere near the upper end of the range at his age. He has the DHEA of an elderly man and of course with low levels of DHEA, it opens a pandora's box to age related illness, autoimmune disease and even cancer. He already has alopecia. It's a bald spot that has grown from 1 quarter in size to about 6 in 5 months (not a fun thing to have on top of all this hormonal crap). Anyway, She thought it was worth a try because she seemed hesitant to start him off with testosterone. The testosterone she prescribed is called chrysin. It is totally bioidentical (same thing his body already produces, nothing synthetic whatsoever). As for being understanding, trust me, if it wasn't for me, he would not be even getting help. I have been the one to research and do all the appointment setting etc... I myself have an autoimmune disease - hashimoto's - and hormonal problems too. I can TOTALLY empathize. I have been dealing with undiagnosed hashi's since i was at least 15 and finally got diagnosed almost 3 years ago. I just don't understand how the both of us could be so unlucky. Now I need to worry about my children. > Hi - > > Betaine, brad and Phil have already given you good > advice and I would agree with all that they said. Let > me just add - > > 1. I would be very concerned about your " hormone > specialist " doc. To me, prescribing DHEA to correct > low testosterone is voodoo medicine. If you do the > research, you will find that, in males, DHEA can > convert to either testosterone or estrogen. I don't > know of any doctor who knows what they are doing who > would prescribe DHEA to treat a testosterone > deficiency. Which is not to say that the low DHEA > should not be treated with a supplement. > > 2. What testosterone has been prescribed? Be aware > that exogenous testosterone will shut down your > husband's own production and the exogenous > testosterone may not be enough to bring him back to > where he was. He may wind up with lower levels and > feeling worse as a result of this prescription. This > has happened to many of us. > > > 3. Be nice to your husband. He is having to deal with > a very tough issue. I know from experience. > > Jim > > > --- wrote: > > > Hi y'all! New here! > > > > My husband had a vasectomy 3.5 years ago. SInce > > then, his health has > > declined (although I was told on the vasectomy board > > that this has > > nothing to do with his isues). Finally I got some > > answers and it > > appear that his > > testosterone is at the very bottom of the range 6.65 > > (range 6.5 - > > 28.1). He is only 32. He has become crabby, snappy > > with the children > > (has even cried to me because he says he is no > > longer the same > > person). He is also tired (fatigued) and the sex > > drive is literally > > gonzo. It has also been discovered that his estrogen > > is low as well as > > his DHEA (approx. 140 and it should be around 400+), > > levels of a MUCH > > older man. > > > > Is there anyone out there that can relate to what we > > are going > > through? I will do anything to get my husband back. > > He is way too > > young to be having these hormonal issues. My doc (a > > hormones > > specialist) tried to get his hormones up with > > supplemental DHEA and it > > has done nothing, in fact his testosterone dipped > > even lower. She > > today, prescribed testosterone. Thanks!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 oh..thanks. i had my progesterone checked twice...0.4 and 0.5 ref range 0.3 - 1.2 i guess that make sense why my DHEA-S is low. <d_timmsjosey@...> wrote: Stress, low levels of hormones like progesterone, autoimmune disease like grave's, hashimoto's, lupus, diabetes, RA etc... It can be so many factors. My husband's is low too. He is currently supplementing, but 50mg/day barely budges it. > how does one get low DHEA?...other than normal aging? im 30yo and my DHEA is 175 ref range 80 - 560. tested 2x (1st time it was 183). > > just curious. > > philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: > Liam Lef.had a chart and when I linked to it they changed it and the chart is gone. But in the chart they said men any age need DHEA at 400 > Phil > > Liam <patrolbase19@...> wrote: > Has anyone seen a normal ranges chart (by age) for DHEA. I'd like to see where I'm supposed to fit at age 41. My DHEA is at the low end of normal 17 points from the cliff. I have a lot of other related lows simular to Phil - low T, high E2, borderline low T3 and T4, low phosphorus and calcium, and a few other odd readings. Have a new doc appointment on the 29th, this will be number 6. > > L > > wrote: > HI JIm, > > My doc wanted to just " try " the dhea to see if it would budge his > hormones because it is like a master hormone to all the other > hormones. Also, he needs it anyway since his dhea is 140 and the range > is 80-450 and he should be somewhere near the upper end of the range > at his age. He has the DHEA of an elderly man and of course with low > levels of DHEA, it opens a pandora's box to age related illness, > autoimmune disease and even cancer. He already has alopecia. It's a > bald spot that has grown from 1 quarter in size to about 6 in 5 months > (not a fun thing to have on top of all this hormonal crap). Anyway, > She thought it was worth a try because she seemed hesitant to start > him off with testosterone. The testosterone she prescribed is called > chrysin. It is totally bioidentical (same thing his body already > produces, nothing synthetic whatsoever). > > As for being understanding, trust me, if it wasn't for me, he would > not be even getting help. I have been the one to research and do all > the appointment setting etc... I myself have an autoimmune disease - > hashimoto's - and hormonal problems too. I can TOTALLY empathize. I > have been dealing with undiagnosed hashi's since i was at least 15 and > finally got diagnosed almost 3 years ago. I just don't understand how > the both of us could be so unlucky. Now I need to worry about my children. > > > > > Hi - > > > > Betaine, brad and Phil have already given you good > > advice and I would agree with all that they said. Let > > me just add - > > > > 1. I would be very concerned about your " hormone > > specialist " doc. To me, prescribing DHEA to correct > > low testosterone is voodoo medicine. If you do the > > research, you will find that, in males, DHEA can > > convert to either testosterone or estrogen. I don't > > know of any doctor who knows what they are doing who > > would prescribe DHEA to treat a testosterone > > deficiency. Which is not to say that the low DHEA > > should not be treated with a supplement. > > > > 2. What testosterone has been prescribed? Be aware > > that exogenous testosterone will shut down your > > husband's own production and the exogenous > > testosterone may not be enough to bring him back to > > where he was. He may wind up with lower levels and > > feeling worse as a result of this prescription. This > > has happened to many of us. > > > > > > 3. Be nice to your husband. He is having to deal with > > a very tough issue. I know from experience. > > > > Jim > > > > > > --- wrote: > > > > > Hi y'all! New here! > > > > > > My husband had a vasectomy 3.5 years ago. SInce > > > then, his health has > > > declined (although I was told on the vasectomy board > > > that this has > > > nothing to do with his isues). Finally I got some > > > answers and it > > > appear that his > > > testosterone is at the very bottom of the range 6.65 > > > (range 6.5 - > > > 28.1). He is only 32. He has become crabby, snappy > > > with the children > > > (has even cried to me because he says he is no > > > longer the same > > > person). He is also tired (fatigued) and the sex > > > drive is literally > > > gonzo. It has also been discovered that his estrogen > > > is low as well as > > > his DHEA (approx. 140 and it should be around 400+), > > > levels of a MUCH > > > older man. > > > > > > Is there anyone out there that can relate to what we > > > are going > > > through? I will do anything to get my husband back. > > > He is way too > > > young to be having these hormonal issues. My doc (a > > > hormones > > > specialist) tried to get his hormones up with > > > supplemental DHEA and it > > > has done nothing, in fact his testosterone dipped > > > even lower. She > > > today, prescribed testosterone. Thanks!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Hi Phil, I have done lots of research and the standard dose of thyroid medication is 3+ grains (a full replacement dose): however, there are instances when a patient does not need a dose that high (my mom is 57 and she has been taking 1/2 grain for over 2 years). With people over 50 (roughly), thyroid function decreases from aging. This is usually not from autoimmune disease like hashi's (although some do develop hashi's in later life too - after menopause, or maybe it's FINALLY gets discovered), but an aged thyroid that just needs a boost. This is not to say Phil, that you may not need MORE than a grain or two, you just might. Yes, adrenal fatigue causes the thyroid hormone to quickly build in the blood and causes hyperness, you are right. Yes, low iron stores (ferritin) can create the same scenario. Your wife, and it sounds like you too, should be on physiological doses of bioidentical HC to bring the adrenals back up (support them) and then over time gradually wean down (some people with severe adrenal issues may never be able to go without HC, but that is worst case scenario). Phil, isocort is a good start, but will not do the trick if you have bad adrenals. You can always order HC overseas if worse comes to worse, but I would look for a wellness doctor who is well versed in thyroid and cortisol. Where do you live? If your wife is mildly depeleted, she can take rhodeola rosea, licorice root if her blood pressure is not elevated, a good and b-complex (and she can take 4 times the dose), go to bed by 10pm, rest and do visualization techniques etc.. to give the adrenals a rest. ALso, natural sea salt is an alternative if you can chock a full glass mixed in the morning (I tried it and it is hard to do lol). P.S. SOmetimes adrenals come up along with thyroid replacement (dr. Derry talks about this), but it is not typically the norm from all the ladies and men on the boards. > Thanks for the reply I am doing Isocort to help bring up my Cortisol levels they are dam low. I will be doing a test next week and will redo the tests to see if my Thyroid dose better if not then I am going to press my Dr. on this more. I need to find a study that will show him he is wrong. If not I am going to see Dr. here in MI. He is one of the best on all of this stuff. Problem is he is not on my Dr.'s list for BCBS but his cost is not that bad and it's the drive like 4 hrs round trip. By the way I am 62. > > My wife is seeing a good Dr. for her Thyroid and he just put her on Fish Oil and DHEA. Her test showed her lower then the bottom of the range. She is doing 25mgs 2x's a day now she is feeling the best she ever felt. > > One more question what is the normal dose of Armour I have read that anything under 3 grains is not a normal dose and it could mean low cortisol or Iron problems. I ask this because my wife can take more then 115 mgs. or she feels hipper yet her Dr. says she has Adrenal Fatigue. And will not give her HC to help her Adrenals. I got most of this stuff from this site. > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ > Phil > > <d_timmsjosey@...> wrote: > I would say PHIL without a doubt, that you could add in some Armour to > your regime. If you are worried about a doc not treating you (and > remember the TSH range is .3 - 3.0) which is not uncommon, they are > really clueless about thyroid, you can always order overseas (I am > sure yourwife knows all about this though). I would give my husband > Armour with those levels. A small (perhaps 1 grain) amount may be all > you need. > > > P.S. that free t3 range is really low. Is that because of your age??? > My free t4 was 5.2 (over the standrard range), but many other labs > have a higher top end (6.2) and my doc likes to see mine between 5 and 6. > > > Hi my last Thyroid test my Dr. told me is fine but he is > going by the TSH only here is what my test was. > > > > TSH is 2.939 range is 0.4 to 4.7 uIU/mL > > Free T3 was 2.32 range 1.5 to 3.5 pg/mL > > Free T4 was 0.91 range 0.71 to 2.23 ng/dL > > > > Phil > > wrote: > > Dhea declines after 35, but 17 points from the edge is very very low > > for someone your age. If your free t's are borderline low, do you mean > > in the bottom of the range (ie. range is .8 - 1.9 and you are .8 or > > .9)? If so, this would indicate a need for possible thyroid hormones. > > Have you ever had your thyroid antibodies tested? What's your TSH. The > > New TSH range was narrowed down to .3 - 3.0, and anything over 2.0 > > should be monitored very closely. WHere are you at. It is not at all > > uncommon for those with failing thyroids from thyroid disease to have > > low DHEA, hormonal issues etc... > > > > > > > Has anyone seen a normal ranges chart (by age) for DHEA. I'd like to > > see where I'm supposed to fit at age 41. My DHEA is at the low end of > > normal 17 points from the cliff. I have a lot of other related lows > > simular to Phil - low T, high E2, borderline low T3 and T4, low > > phosphorus and calcium, and a few other odd readings. Have a new doc > > appointment on the 29th, this will be number 6. > > > > > > L > > > > > > wrote: > > > HI JIm, > > > > > > My doc wanted to just " try " the dhea to see if it would budge his > > > hormones because it is like a master hormone to all the other > > > hormones. Also, he needs it anyway since his dhea is 140 and the range > > > is 80-450 and he should be somewhere near the upper end of the range > > > at his age. He has the DHEA of an elderly man and of course with low > > > levels of DHEA, it opens a pandora's box to age related illness, > > > autoimmune disease and even cancer. He already has alopecia. It's a > > > bald spot that has grown from 1 quarter in size to about 6 in 5 months > > > (not a fun thing to have on top of all this hormonal crap). Anyway, > > > She thought it was worth a try because she seemed hesitant to start > > > him off with testosterone. The testosterone she prescribed is called > > > chrysin. It is totally bioidentical (same thing his body already > > > produces, nothing synthetic whatsoever). > > > > > > As for being understanding, trust me, if it wasn't for me, he would > > > not be even getting help. I have been the one to research and do all > > > the appointment setting etc... I myself have an autoimmune disease - > > > hashimoto's - and hormonal problems too. I can TOTALLY empathize. I > > > have been dealing with undiagnosed hashi's since i was at least 15 and > > > finally got diagnosed almost 3 years ago. I just don't understand how > > > the both of us could be so unlucky. Now I need to worry about my > > children. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi - > > > > > > > > Betaine, brad and Phil have already given you good > > > > advice and I would agree with all that they said. Let > > > > me just add - > > > > > > > > 1. I would be very concerned about your " hormone > > > > specialist " doc. To me, prescribing DHEA to correct > > > > low testosterone is voodoo medicine. If you do the > > > > research, you will find that, in males, DHEA can > > > > convert to either testosterone or estrogen. I don't > > > > know of any doctor who knows what they are doing who > > > > would prescribe DHEA to treat a testosterone > > > > deficiency. Which is not to say that the low DHEA > > > > should not be treated with a supplement. > > > > > > > > 2. What testosterone has been prescribed? Be aware > > > > that exogenous testosterone will shut down your > > > > husband's own production and the exogenous > > > > testosterone may not be enough to bring him back to > > > > where he was. He may wind up with lower levels and > > > > feeling worse as a result of this prescription. This > > > > has happened to many of us. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. Be nice to your husband. He is having to deal with > > > > a very tough issue. I know from experience. > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > --- wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi y'all! New here! > > > > > > > > > > My husband had a vasectomy 3.5 years ago. SInce > > > > > then, his health has > > > > > declined (although I was told on the vasectomy board > > > > > that this has > > > > > nothing to do with his isues). Finally I got some > > > > > answers and it > > > > > appear that his > > > > > testosterone is at the very bottom of the range 6.65 > > > > > (range 6.5 - > > > > > 28.1). He is only 32. He has become crabby, snappy > > > > > with the children > > > > > (has even cried to me because he says he is no > > > > > longer the same > > > > > person). He is also tired (fatigued) and the sex > > > > > drive is literally > > > > > gonzo. It has also been discovered that his estrogen > > > > > is low as well as > > > > > his DHEA (approx. 140 and it should be around 400+), > > > > > levels of a MUCH > > > > > older man. > > > > > > > > > > Is there anyone out there that can relate to what we > > > > > are going > > > > > through? I will do anything to get my husband back. > > > > > He is way too > > > > > young to be having these hormonal issues. My doc (a > > > > > hormones > > > > > specialist) tried to get his hormones up with > > > > > supplemental DHEA and it > > > > > has done nothing, in fact his testosterone dipped > > > > > even lower. She > > > > > today, prescribed testosterone. Thanks!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Yes, I forgot to add that in my answer too, but DHEA supplementation alone will usually not bring up the adrenals alone, but in combo with say progesterone, it can bring about significant improvement there. I am not sure about men though. I am just learning about you intricate guys now since the hubby is having issues. > personally I'm getting two different stories on why I have low DHEA. > > 1. Adrenal insufficiency which is tied into the whole endo thing. Some docs subscribe to this, some do not. The test results don't lie but treatment regimens vary. I'm getting the impression that the pituitary brings down the adrenals (DHEA/Cortisol) which brings down the thyroid (FT3/FT4) that brings down testosterone. It's not enough to warrant Cushings but all tests fall into the low normal. Just enough to make you feel like poopy kaka all the time. How all of this fits together is beyond me but I'm still reading. > > 2. Stress/depression brings down the DHEA/Corisol which brings down testostone. Treatment is with antidepressants and toughing it out. I personally don't subscribe to this theory since it requires treating symtoms with the wrong meds based on a subjective diagnosis.(Ask Phil about this and he'll hit the roof and for good reason.) > > L > > > > Jack <rockin813@...> wrote: > how does one get low DHEA?...other than normal aging? im 30yo and my DHEA is 175 ref range 80 - 560. tested 2x (1st time it was 183). > > just curious. > > philip georgian > wrote: > Liam Lef.had a chart and when I linked to it they changed it and the chart is gone. But in the chart they said men any age need DHEA at 400 > Phil > > Liam > wrote: > Has anyone seen a normal ranges chart (by age) for DHEA. I'd like to see where I'm supposed to fit at age 41. My DHEA is at the low end of normal 17 points from the cliff. I have a lot of other related lows simular to Phil - low T, high E2, borderline low T3 and T4, low phosphorus and calcium, and a few other odd readings. Have a new doc appointment on the 29th, this will be number 6. > > L > > wrote: > HI JIm, > > My doc wanted to just " try " the dhea to see if it would budge his > hormones because it is like a master hormone to all the other > hormones. Also, he needs it anyway since his dhea is 140 and the range > is 80-450 and he should be somewhere near the upper end of the range > at his age. He has the DHEA of an elderly man and of course with low > levels of DHEA, it opens a pandora's box to age related illness, > autoimmune disease and even cancer. He already has alopecia. It's a > bald spot that has grown from 1 quarter in size to about 6 in 5 months > (not a fun thing to have on top of all this hormonal crap). Anyway, > She thought it was worth a try because she seemed hesitant to start > him off with testosterone. The testosterone she prescribed is called > chrysin. It is totally bioidentical (same thing his body already > produces, nothing synthetic whatsoever). > > As for being understanding, trust me, if it wasn't for me, he would > not be even getting help. I have been the one to research and do all > the appointment setting etc... I myself have an autoimmune disease - > hashimoto's - and hormonal problems too. I can TOTALLY empathize. I > have been dealing with undiagnosed hashi's since i was at least 15 and > finally got diagnosed almost 3 years ago. I just don't understand how > the both of us could be so unlucky. Now I need to worry about my children. > > > > > Hi - > > > > Betaine, brad and Phil have already given you good > > advice and I would agree with all that they said. Let > > me just add - > > > > 1. I would be very concerned about your " hormone > > specialist " doc. To me, prescribing DHEA to correct > > low testosterone is voodoo medicine. If you do the > > research, you will find that, in males, DHEA can > > convert to either testosterone or estrogen. I don't > > know of any doctor who knows what they are doing who > > would prescribe DHEA to treat a testosterone > > deficiency. Which is not to say that the low DHEA > > should not be treated with a supplement. > > > > 2. What testosterone has been prescribed? Be aware > > that exogenous testosterone will shut down your > > husband's own production and the exogenous > > testosterone may not be enough to bring him back to > > where he was. He may wind up with lower levels and > > feeling worse as a result of this prescription. This > > has happened to many of us. > > > > > > 3. Be nice to your husband. He is having to deal with > > a very tough issue. I know from experience. > > > > Jim > > > > > > --- wrote: > > > > > Hi y'all! New here! > > > > > > My husband had a vasectomy 3.5 years ago. SInce > > > then, his health has > > > declined (although I was told on the vasectomy board > > > that this has > > > nothing to do with his isues). Finally I got some > > > answers and it > > > appear that his > > > testosterone is at the very bottom of the range 6.65 > > > (range 6.5 - > > > 28.1). He is only 32. He has become crabby, snappy > > > with the children > > > (has even cried to me because he says he is no > > > longer the same > > > person). He is also tired (fatigued) and the sex > > > drive is literally > > > gonzo. It has also been discovered that his estrogen > > > is low as well as > > > his DHEA (approx. 140 and it should be around 400+), > > > levels of a MUCH > > > older man. > > > > > > Is there anyone out there that can relate to what we > > > are going > > > through? I will do anything to get my husband back. > > > He is way too > > > young to be having these hormonal issues. My doc (a > > > hormones > > > specialist) tried to get his hormones up with > > > supplemental DHEA and it > > > has done nothing, in fact his testosterone dipped > > > even lower. She > > > today, prescribed testosterone. Thanks!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 The free is just free testosterone. I tried to get my endo to do free T3 and T4 and he blew me off. " I'm the doc and you're the patient. " L <d_timmsjosey@...> wrote: WHat are those free's? They just say free t (t3, t4 etc..). Thanks! > > Total T 321 (250-1100) > % Free T 2.41 (1.1-2.8) > Free T 77.3 (35.0-155.0) > E2 36 (13-54) has been as high as 67 > DHEA 97.4 (80.0-560) > TSH 1.1 (0.30-4.50) has been as low as .7 > TPO 5.4 (<30 Negative) > T3/T4/T7/ all midline normal > Calcium sometimes elevated > Phosphorus usually low > > note: SHBG is very low and has been low since beginning. averages around 8-9 (7-50) both on and off HRT. > > So a few questions for the group. (Phil has referenced a few of these but everyone please chime in) > > 1. Low SHBG references a thyroid issue, yes/no? > 2. low DHEA references bad adrenals, yes/no? > 3. adrenals pull down the thyroid (TSH) but leaves T4/T3 normal (compensating for something), yes/no? what? > 4. would these tests point to a pituitary issue? (i think so but the docs don't) > > sound off guys. next doc appointment is the 29th with doc #6 > > L > > wrote: > Dhea declines after 35, but 17 points from the edge is very very low > for someone your age. If your free t's are borderline low, do you mean > in the bottom of the range (ie. range is .8 - 1.9 and you are .8 or > .9)? If so, this would indicate a need for possible thyroid hormones. > Have you ever had your thyroid antibodies tested? What's your TSH. The > New TSH range was narrowed down to .3 - 3.0, and anything over 2.0 > should be monitored very closely. WHere are you at. It is not at all > uncommon for those with failing thyroids from thyroid disease to have > low DHEA, hormonal issues etc... > > > > Has anyone seen a normal ranges chart (by age) for DHEA. I'd like to > see where I'm supposed to fit at age 41. My DHEA is at the low end of > normal 17 points from the cliff. I have a lot of other related lows > simular to Phil - low T, high E2, borderline low T3 and T4, low > phosphorus and calcium, and a few other odd readings. Have a new doc > appointment on the 29th, this will be number 6. > > > > L > > > > wrote: > > HI JIm, > > > > My doc wanted to just " try " the dhea to see if it would budge his > > hormones because it is like a master hormone to all the other > > hormones. Also, he needs it anyway since his dhea is 140 and the range > > is 80-450 and he should be somewhere near the upper end of the range > > at his age. He has the DHEA of an elderly man and of course with low > > levels of DHEA, it opens a pandora's box to age related illness, > > autoimmune disease and even cancer. He already has alopecia. It's a > > bald spot that has grown from 1 quarter in size to about 6 in 5 months > > (not a fun thing to have on top of all this hormonal crap). Anyway, > > She thought it was worth a try because she seemed hesitant to start > > him off with testosterone. The testosterone she prescribed is called > > chrysin. It is totally bioidentical (same thing his body already > > produces, nothing synthetic whatsoever). > > > > As for being understanding, trust me, if it wasn't for me, he would > > not be even getting help. I have been the one to research and do all > > the appointment setting etc... I myself have an autoimmune disease - > > hashimoto's - and hormonal problems too. I can TOTALLY empathize. I > > have been dealing with undiagnosed hashi's since i was at least 15 and > > finally got diagnosed almost 3 years ago. I just don't understand how > > the both of us could be so unlucky. Now I need to worry about my > children. > > > > > > > > > > > Hi - > > > > > > Betaine, brad and Phil have already given you good > > > advice and I would agree with all that they said. Let > > > me just add - > > > > > > 1. I would be very concerned about your " hormone > > > specialist " doc. To me, prescribing DHEA to correct > > > low testosterone is voodoo medicine. If you do the > > > research, you will find that, in males, DHEA can > > > convert to either testosterone or estrogen. I don't > > > know of any doctor who knows what they are doing who > > > would prescribe DHEA to treat a testosterone > > > deficiency. Which is not to say that the low DHEA > > > should not be treated with a supplement. > > > > > > 2. What testosterone has been prescribed? Be aware > > > that exogenous testosterone will shut down your > > > husband's own production and the exogenous > > > testosterone may not be enough to bring him back to > > > where he was. He may wind up with lower levels and > > > feeling worse as a result of this prescription. This > > > has happened to many of us. > > > > > > > > > 3. Be nice to your husband. He is having to deal with > > > a very tough issue. I know from experience. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > --- wrote: > > > > > > > Hi y'all! New here! > > > > > > > > My husband had a vasectomy 3.5 years ago. SInce > > > > then, his health has > > > > declined (although I was told on the vasectomy board > > > > that this has > > > > nothing to do with his isues). Finally I got some > > > > answers and it > > > > appear that his > > > > testosterone is at the very bottom of the range 6.65 > > > > (range 6.5 - > > > > 28.1). He is only 32. He has become crabby, snappy > > > > with the children > > > > (has even cried to me because he says he is no > > > > longer the same > > > > person). He is also tired (fatigued) and the sex > > > > drive is literally > > > > gonzo. It has also been discovered that his estrogen > > > > is low as well as > > > > his DHEA (approx. 140 and it should be around 400+), > > > > levels of a MUCH > > > > older man. > > > > > > > > Is there anyone out there that can relate to what we > > > > are going > > > > through? I will do anything to get my husband back. > > > > He is way too > > > > young to be having these hormonal issues. My doc (a > > > > hormones > > > > specialist) tried to get his hormones up with > > > > supplemental DHEA and it > > > > has done nothing, in fact his testosterone dipped > > > > even lower. She > > > > today, prescribed testosterone. Thanks!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 ? Pregnenolone might be useful in place of much of the DHEA. I've been experimenting with it and it seems to be somewhat helpful....more so than the DHEA, anyway. Understand I do other things and I am speaking rather subjectively and not on the basis of lab results with the Pregnenolone. I'll add I've be taking GABA which just may help gonadotrophin release. These are still available as " supplements " here in the States. Anyway that is my 2 cents. > > > > > > > Hi y'all! New here! > > > > > > > > My husband had a vasectomy 3.5 years ago. SInce > > > > then, his health has > > > > declined (although I was told on the vasectomy board > > > > that this has > > > > nothing to do with his isues). Finally I got some > > > > answers and it > > > > appear that his > > > > testosterone is at the very bottom of the range 6.65 > > > > (range 6.5 - > > > > 28.1). He is only 32. He has become crabby, snappy > > > > with the children > > > > (has even cried to me because he says he is no > > > > longer the same > > > > person). He is also tired (fatigued) and the sex > > > > drive is literally > > > > gonzo. It has also been discovered that his estrogen > > > > is low as well as > > > > his DHEA (approx. 140 and it should be around 400+), > > > > levels of a MUCH > > > > older man. > > > > > > > > Is there anyone out there that can relate to what we > > > > are going > > > > through? I will do anything to get my husband back. > > > > He is way too > > > > young to be having these hormonal issues. My doc (a > > > > hormones > > > > specialist) tried to get his hormones up with > > > > supplemental DHEA and it > > > > has done nothing, in fact his testosterone dipped > > > > even lower. She > > > > today, prescribed testosterone. Thanks!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 HUM, thanks! I took pregnelolone myself and even thought about giving him some a long time ago. Thanks for bringing that back into the forfront of my brain . > ? > > Pregnenolone might be useful in place of much of > the DHEA. I've been experimenting with it and it seems to be > somewhat helpful....more so than the DHEA, anyway. Understand > I do other things and I am speaking rather subjectively > and not on the basis of lab results with the Pregnenolone. > I'll add I've be taking GABA which just may help gonadotrophin > release. These are still available as " supplements " here in the > States. > > Anyway that is my 2 cents. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi y'all! New here! > > > > > > > > > > My husband had a vasectomy 3.5 years ago. SInce > > > > > then, his health has > > > > > declined (although I was told on the vasectomy board > > > > > that this has > > > > > nothing to do with his isues). Finally I got some > > > > > answers and it > > > > > appear that his > > > > > testosterone is at the very bottom of the range 6.65 > > > > > (range 6.5 - > > > > > 28.1). He is only 32. He has become crabby, snappy > > > > > with the children > > > > > (has even cried to me because he says he is no > > > > > longer the same > > > > > person). He is also tired (fatigued) and the sex > > > > > drive is literally > > > > > gonzo. It has also been discovered that his estrogen > > > > > is low as well as > > > > > his DHEA (approx. 140 and it should be around 400+), > > > > > levels of a MUCH > > > > > older man. > > > > > > > > > > Is there anyone out there that can relate to what we > > > > > are going > > > > > through? I will do anything to get my husband back. > > > > > He is way too > > > > > young to be having these hormonal issues. My doc (a > > > > > hormones > > > > > specialist) tried to get his hormones up with > > > > > supplemental DHEA and it > > > > > has done nothing, in fact his testosterone dipped > > > > > even lower. She > > > > > today, prescribed testosterone. Thanks!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Liam save your self some time and post to Chirs at these site's take your pick. At this site he has a lot of info in the links section. Hypopituitary_Support/messages And this is a good place to post to him also he is up on all of this better this most Dr.s. He has helped me a lot. http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/community/viewforum.php?f=10 & sid=210359f84d\ 6b7bf99596ecb6de0d9c3e Phil Liam <patrolbase19@...> wrote: personally I'm getting two different stories on why I have low DHEA. 1. Adrenal insufficiency which is tied into the whole endo thing. Some docs subscribe to this, some do not. The test results don't lie but treatment regimens vary. I'm getting the impression that the pituitary brings down the adrenals (DHEA/Cortisol) which brings down the thyroid (FT3/FT4) that brings down testosterone. It's not enough to warrant Cushings but all tests fall into the low normal. Just enough to make you feel like poopy kaka all the time. How all of this fits together is beyond me but I'm still reading. 2. Stress/depression brings down the DHEA/Corisol which brings down testostone. Treatment is with antidepressants and toughing it out. I personally don't subscribe to this theory since it requires treating symtoms with the wrong meds based on a subjective diagnosis.(Ask Phil about this and he'll hit the roof and for good reason.) L Jack wrote: how does one get low DHEA?...other than normal aging? im 30yo and my DHEA is 175 ref range 80 - 560. tested 2x (1st time it was 183). just curious. philip georgian wrote: Liam Lef.had a chart and when I linked to it they changed it and the chart is gone. But in the chart they said men any age need DHEA at 400 Phil Liam wrote: Has anyone seen a normal ranges chart (by age) for DHEA. I'd like to see where I'm supposed to fit at age 41. My DHEA is at the low end of normal 17 points from the cliff. I have a lot of other related lows simular to Phil - low T, high E2, borderline low T3 and T4, low phosphorus and calcium, and a few other odd readings. Have a new doc appointment on the 29th, this will be number 6. L wrote: HI JIm, My doc wanted to just " try " the dhea to see if it would budge his hormones because it is like a master hormone to all the other hormones. Also, he needs it anyway since his dhea is 140 and the range is 80-450 and he should be somewhere near the upper end of the range at his age. He has the DHEA of an elderly man and of course with low levels of DHEA, it opens a pandora's box to age related illness, autoimmune disease and even cancer. He already has alopecia. It's a bald spot that has grown from 1 quarter in size to about 6 in 5 months (not a fun thing to have on top of all this hormonal crap). Anyway, She thought it was worth a try because she seemed hesitant to start him off with testosterone. The testosterone she prescribed is called chrysin. It is totally bioidentical (same thing his body already produces, nothing synthetic whatsoever). As for being understanding, trust me, if it wasn't for me, he would not be even getting help. I have been the one to research and do all the appointment setting etc... I myself have an autoimmune disease - hashimoto's - and hormonal problems too. I can TOTALLY empathize. I have been dealing with undiagnosed hashi's since i was at least 15 and finally got diagnosed almost 3 years ago. I just don't understand how the both of us could be so unlucky. Now I need to worry about my children. > Hi - > > Betaine, brad and Phil have already given you good > advice and I would agree with all that they said. Let > me just add - > > 1. I would be very concerned about your " hormone > specialist " doc. To me, prescribing DHEA to correct > low testosterone is voodoo medicine. If you do the > research, you will find that, in males, DHEA can > convert to either testosterone or estrogen. I don't > know of any doctor who knows what they are doing who > would prescribe DHEA to treat a testosterone > deficiency. Which is not to say that the low DHEA > should not be treated with a supplement. > > 2. What testosterone has been prescribed? Be aware > that exogenous testosterone will shut down your > husband's own production and the exogenous > testosterone may not be enough to bring him back to > where he was. He may wind up with lower levels and > feeling worse as a result of this prescription. This > has happened to many of us. > > > 3. Be nice to your husband. He is having to deal with > a very tough issue. I know from experience. > > Jim > > > --- wrote: > > > Hi y'all! New here! > > > > My husband had a vasectomy 3.5 years ago. SInce > > then, his health has > > declined (although I was told on the vasectomy board > > that this has > > nothing to do with his isues). Finally I got some > > answers and it > > appear that his > > testosterone is at the very bottom of the range 6.65 > > (range 6.5 - > > 28.1). He is only 32. He has become crabby, snappy > > with the children > > (has even cried to me because he says he is no > > longer the same > > person). He is also tired (fatigued) and the sex > > drive is literally > > gonzo. It has also been discovered that his estrogen > > is low as well as > > his DHEA (approx. 140 and it should be around 400+), > > levels of a MUCH > > older man. > > > > Is there anyone out there that can relate to what we > > are going > > through? I will do anything to get my husband back. > > He is way too > > young to be having these hormonal issues. My doc (a > > hormones > > specialist) tried to get his hormones up with > > supplemental DHEA and it > > has done nothing, in fact his testosterone dipped > > even lower. She > > today, prescribed testosterone. Thanks!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 My wife is like you but older she has Hashimoto's been sick with it for 15 yrs. Just last yr. I got her to stop seeing Endo's and she droped the Synthroid and went on Armour but like I said she can't go more then 115 mgs of Armour her Dr. is treating her for Adrenal Fatigue but will not give her HC yet he trys the glands first. And she is feeling better just getting her DHEA up. I was shocked when she came home with the same DHEA I take and she paided less for it then I do off the net. http://www.myvitanet.com/dhea260capph.html I live in Mi. and will be going to see Dr. soon he is about a 4 hr. drive round trip. He uses HC to treat Adrenal Fatigue. I am doing sea salt I can't drink a 1/4 tsp full in a 8oz glass or water but do mix in my bottle of 24 oz water and I feel better drinking 2 bottles a day. Phil <d_timmsjosey@...> wrote: Hi Phil, I have done lots of research and the standard dose of thyroid medication is 3+ grains (a full replacement dose): however, there are instances when a patient does not need a dose that high (my mom is 57 and she has been taking 1/2 grain for over 2 years). With people over 50 (roughly), thyroid function decreases from aging. This is usually not from autoimmune disease like hashi's (although some do develop hashi's in later life too - after menopause, or maybe it's FINALLY gets discovered), but an aged thyroid that just needs a boost. This is not to say Phil, that you may not need MORE than a grain or two, you just might. Yes, adrenal fatigue causes the thyroid hormone to quickly build in the blood and causes hyperness, you are right. Yes, low iron stores (ferritin) can create the same scenario. Your wife, and it sounds like you too, should be on physiological doses of bioidentical HC to bring the adrenals back up (support them) and then over time gradually wean down (some people with severe adrenal issues may never be able to go without HC, but that is worst case scenario). Phil, isocort is a good start, but will not do the trick if you have bad adrenals. You can always order HC overseas if worse comes to worse, but I would look for a wellness doctor who is well versed in thyroid and cortisol. Where do you live? If your wife is mildly depeleted, she can take rhodeola rosea, licorice root if her blood pressure is not elevated, a good and b-complex (and she can take 4 times the dose), go to bed by 10pm, rest and do visualization techniques etc.. to give the adrenals a rest. ALso, natural sea salt is an alternative if you can chock a full glass mixed in the morning (I tried it and it is hard to do lol). P.S. SOmetimes adrenals come up along with thyroid replacement (dr. Derry talks about this), but it is not typically the norm from all the ladies and men on the boards. > Thanks for the reply I am doing Isocort to help bring up my Cortisol levels they are dam low. I will be doing a test next week and will redo the tests to see if my Thyroid dose better if not then I am going to press my Dr. on this more. I need to find a study that will show him he is wrong. If not I am going to see Dr. here in MI. He is one of the best on all of this stuff. Problem is he is not on my Dr.'s list for BCBS but his cost is not that bad and it's the drive like 4 hrs round trip. By the way I am 62. > > My wife is seeing a good Dr. for her Thyroid and he just put her on Fish Oil and DHEA. Her test showed her lower then the bottom of the range. She is doing 25mgs 2x's a day now she is feeling the best she ever felt. > > One more question what is the normal dose of Armour I have read that anything under 3 grains is not a normal dose and it could mean low cortisol or Iron problems. I ask this because my wife can take more then 115 mgs. or she feels hipper yet her Dr. says she has Adrenal Fatigue. And will not give her HC to help her Adrenals. I got most of this stuff from this site. > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ > Phil > > wrote: > I would say PHIL without a doubt, that you could add in some Armour to > your regime. If you are worried about a doc not treating you (and > remember the TSH range is .3 - 3.0) which is not uncommon, they are > really clueless about thyroid, you can always order overseas (I am > sure yourwife knows all about this though). I would give my husband > Armour with those levels. A small (perhaps 1 grain) amount may be all > you need. > > > P.S. that free t3 range is really low. Is that because of your age??? > My free t4 was 5.2 (over the standrard range), but many other labs > have a higher top end (6.2) and my doc likes to see mine between 5 and 6. > > > Hi my last Thyroid test my Dr. told me is fine but he is > going by the TSH only here is what my test was. > > > > TSH is 2.939 range is 0.4 to 4.7 uIU/mL > > Free T3 was 2.32 range 1.5 to 3.5 pg/mL > > Free T4 was 0.91 range 0.71 to 2.23 ng/dL > > > > Phil > > wrote: > > Dhea declines after 35, but 17 points from the edge is very very low > > for someone your age. If your free t's are borderline low, do you mean > > in the bottom of the range (ie. range is .8 - 1.9 and you are .8 or > > .9)? If so, this would indicate a need for possible thyroid hormones. > > Have you ever had your thyroid antibodies tested? What's your TSH. The > > New TSH range was narrowed down to .3 - 3.0, and anything over 2.0 > > should be monitored very closely. WHere are you at. It is not at all > > uncommon for those with failing thyroids from thyroid disease to have > > low DHEA, hormonal issues etc... > > > > > > > Has anyone seen a normal ranges chart (by age) for DHEA. I'd like to > > see where I'm supposed to fit at age 41. My DHEA is at the low end of > > normal 17 points from the cliff. I have a lot of other related lows > > simular to Phil - low T, high E2, borderline low T3 and T4, low > > phosphorus and calcium, and a few other odd readings. Have a new doc > > appointment on the 29th, this will be number 6. > > > > > > L > > > > > > wrote: > > > HI JIm, > > > > > > My doc wanted to just " try " the dhea to see if it would budge his > > > hormones because it is like a master hormone to all the other > > > hormones. Also, he needs it anyway since his dhea is 140 and the range > > > is 80-450 and he should be somewhere near the upper end of the range > > > at his age. He has the DHEA of an elderly man and of course with low > > > levels of DHEA, it opens a pandora's box to age related illness, > > > autoimmune disease and even cancer. He already has alopecia. It's a > > > bald spot that has grown from 1 quarter in size to about 6 in 5 months > > > (not a fun thing to have on top of all this hormonal crap). Anyway, > > > She thought it was worth a try because she seemed hesitant to start > > > him off with testosterone. The testosterone she prescribed is called > > > chrysin. It is totally bioidentical (same thing his body already > > > produces, nothing synthetic whatsoever). > > > > > > As for being understanding, trust me, if it wasn't for me, he would > > > not be even getting help. I have been the one to research and do all > > > the appointment setting etc... I myself have an autoimmune disease - > > > hashimoto's - and hormonal problems too. I can TOTALLY empathize. I > > > have been dealing with undiagnosed hashi's since i was at least 15 and > > > finally got diagnosed almost 3 years ago. I just don't understand how > > > the both of us could be so unlucky. Now I need to worry about my > > children. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi - > > > > > > > > Betaine, brad and Phil have already given you good > > > > advice and I would agree with all that they said. Let > > > > me just add - > > > > > > > > 1. I would be very concerned about your " hormone > > > > specialist " doc. To me, prescribing DHEA to correct > > > > low testosterone is voodoo medicine. If you do the > > > > research, you will find that, in males, DHEA can > > > > convert to either testosterone or estrogen. I don't > > > > know of any doctor who knows what they are doing who > > > > would prescribe DHEA to treat a testosterone > > > > deficiency. Which is not to say that the low DHEA > > > > should not be treated with a supplement. > > > > > > > > 2. What testosterone has been prescribed? Be aware > > > > that exogenous testosterone will shut down your > > > > husband's own production and the exogenous > > > > testosterone may not be enough to bring him back to > > > > where he was. He may wind up with lower levels and > > > > feeling worse as a result of this prescription. This > > > > has happened to many of us. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. Be nice to your husband. He is having to deal with > > > > a very tough issue. I know from experience. > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > --- wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi y'all! New here! > > > > > > > > > > My husband had a vasectomy 3.5 years ago. SInce > > > > > then, his health has > > > > > declined (although I was told on the vasectomy board > > > > > that this has > > > > > nothing to do with his isues). Finally I got some > > > > > answers and it > > > > > appear that his > > > > > testosterone is at the very bottom of the range 6.65 > > > > > (range 6.5 - > > > > > 28.1). He is only 32. He has become crabby, snappy > > > > > with the children > > > > > (has even cried to me because he says he is no > > > > > longer the same > > > > > person). He is also tired (fatigued) and the sex > > > > > drive is literally > > > > > gonzo. It has also been discovered that his estrogen > > > > > is low as well as > > > > > his DHEA (approx. 140 and it should be around 400+), > > > > > levels of a MUCH > > > > > older man. > > > > > > > > > > Is there anyone out there that can relate to what we > > > > > are going > > > > > through? I will do anything to get my husband back. > > > > > He is way too > > > > > young to be having these hormonal issues. My doc (a > > > > > hormones > > > > > specialist) tried to get his hormones up with > > > > > supplemental DHEA and it > > > > > has done nothing, in fact his testosterone dipped > > > > > even lower. She > > > > > today, prescribed testosterone. Thanks!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Dr. says Pregnenolone converts to DHEA, cortisol, etc. Phil <d_timmsjosey@...> wrote: HUM, thanks! I took pregnelolone myself and even thought about giving him some a long time ago. Thanks for bringing that back into the forfront of my brain . > ? > > Pregnenolone might be useful in place of much of > the DHEA. I've been experimenting with it and it seems to be > somewhat helpful....more so than the DHEA, anyway. Understand > I do other things and I am speaking rather subjectively > and not on the basis of lab results with the Pregnenolone. > I'll add I've be taking GABA which just may help gonadotrophin > release. These are still available as " supplements " here in the > States. > > Anyway that is my 2 cents. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi y'all! New here! > > > > > > > > > > My husband had a vasectomy 3.5 years ago. SInce > > > > > then, his health has > > > > > declined (although I was told on the vasectomy board > > > > > that this has > > > > > nothing to do with his isues). Finally I got some > > > > > answers and it > > > > > appear that his > > > > > testosterone is at the very bottom of the range 6.65 > > > > > (range 6.5 - > > > > > 28.1). He is only 32. He has become crabby, snappy > > > > > with the children > > > > > (has even cried to me because he says he is no > > > > > longer the same > > > > > person). He is also tired (fatigued) and the sex > > > > > drive is literally > > > > > gonzo. It has also been discovered that his estrogen > > > > > is low as well as > > > > > his DHEA (approx. 140 and it should be around 400+), > > > > > levels of a MUCH > > > > > older man. > > > > > > > > > > Is there anyone out there that can relate to what we > > > > > are going > > > > > through? I will do anything to get my husband back. > > > > > He is way too > > > > > young to be having these hormonal issues. My doc (a > > > > > hormones > > > > > specialist) tried to get his hormones up with > > > > > supplemental DHEA and it > > > > > has done nothing, in fact his testosterone dipped > > > > > even lower. She > > > > > today, prescribed testosterone. Thanks!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 Hi . I have some adrendal/thyroid issues mixed in with my hypogonadism. Would you mind telling me where the best boards are for men with adrenal/thyroid issues? My biggest problem right now is insomnia due to a trembling, buzzing sensation in my body, which wakes me up. Thanks, Eugene > I have done lots of research and the standard dose of thyroid > medication is 3+ grains (a full replacement dose): however, there are > instances when a patient does not need a dose that high (my mom is 57 > and she has been taking 1/2 grain for over 2 years). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2006 Report Share Posted August 12, 2006 Eugene this is a dam good site start here. http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ Phil eugenekeddy <eugenekeddy@...> wrote: Hi . I have some adrendal/thyroid issues mixed in with my hypogonadism. Would you mind telling me where the best boards are for men with adrenal/thyroid issues? My biggest problem right now is insomnia due to a trembling, buzzing sensation in my body, which wakes me up. Thanks, Eugene > I have done lots of research and the standard dose of thyroid > medication is 3+ grains (a full replacement dose): however, there are > instances when a patient does not need a dose that high (my mom is 57 > and she has been taking 1/2 grain for over 2 years). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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