Re: Re: Just Started AndroGel

[Guest guest]

Can you repost this and add he units and ranges.

Phil

kincaiddave <dave@...> wrote:

Thanks retrogrouch and Phil Georgian!!

I had requested the tests to be done outlined in a post by Phil.

They wouldn't do all of them but here's the results that I just got

today (test performed 7/29/06).

Ultra TSH 1.18

FSH 3.4

LH 3.8

Cortisol 9.9

Prolactin 5.6

PSA 2.0

Estrogen (fractionated) 50

Estradiolm, serum 21

Estrone 29

Sex steroid binding globulin 20

Testosterone 319

Free Testosterone 72.7

% Free Testosterone 2.3

The only other time I was tested was in May 2005 and they got

224NG/DL for total T and I was told I was low-normal. I protested

and they referred me to two different urologists that didn't work

out. I then got the general practitioner to refer me to another

urologist and finally got an agreement that I am low on T.

I look forward to any response that anyone may have!!

>

> >I tested 319 total T the last time I was tested and the lab has

350

> >as the bottom of their normal range. The new urologist that I am

> >seeing agreed to try me on AndroGel 5g to start with. I started

it

> >a week ago Saturday on the 5th. I don't feel any different.

From

> >what I have read I am not surprised, because it seems that few

get

> >the desired response from 5g. I weigh 215 so I am not a little

guy

> >and I don't expect it to be adequate. Here's the thing that

causes

> >me to post - my urologist wants to wait 8 weeks to test me. I

asked

> >(through the nurse practitioner) if I could be tested in two

weeks

> >like is on the product info (and I have read in several posts)

and

> >was told the doc wants to wait the 8 weeks. Is there any reason

to

> >wait the 8 weeks? Here is the response from the nurse

practitioner -

> >

> >

> >I spoke with Dr. xxxxx this AM. He prefers to wait for the

original

> >time period because symptom relief comes slowly regardless of the

> >rise in level. Due to potential side effects, we wouldn't want

to

> >over shoot our dosage. Hang in there.

> >

> >So I started an email response, but feel it won't do any good.

What

> >do you do in a case like this? Am I wrong to feel that I want

> >tested sooner because I may be missing out on feeling better? Is

> >there really a reason to wait?

> >

> >Thanks for any thoughts you may have!

>

>

> Did he run E2, LH, FSH, Prolactin?

>

> It scares me how many docs just write a scrip for T on seeing a

low T

> number. Please bring him a copy of the AACE guidelines

>

> http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

>

> and read up yourself what a proper round of diagnosis tests should

> include BEFORE starting TRT.

>

> But yes at your size I doubt 5 g packets will do much. I was on 1

and

> a 1/2 and it worked for me - for a time. (They make a pump model

for

> 1/2 doses and doubles.)

>

> ________________

> I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

> Terence

>

[Guest guest]

Hey kincaiddave,

I will throw my 2 cents in. Your FSH and LH which are required to stimulate

your testicles to produce T are in the mid-point of the range. Unfortunately you

are kind of in the gray zone and could be either primary or secondary or

possible both. My gut tells me you are primary with these levels and TRT might

be the most appropriate thing. It is up to you if you want to consider

addressing the possible secondary treatment like HCG. Most folks don't think

this treatment long term will work too well and eventually you will be come

primary and require T externally.

Don't go too long before getting tested especially on 5 g of androgel

(typically a low dose for most men). If you are not feeling any positive changes

within 2 weeks it probably is not working for you are it isn't enough. Keep in

mind that you should feel great for a few weeks until your testicles quit

producing and you are running solely on the androgel.

Good Luck - Arkansas

kincaiddave <dave@...> wrote:

Phil,

They didn't give units on everything, but here is what I have.

FSH 3.4 MIU/ML range 1.3 - 19.3

LH 3.8 MIU/ML range 1.2 - 8.6

Cortisol 9.9 MCG/DL range 8.7 - 22.4

Testosterone 319 (no units given) range 350 - 890

Can you tell from the above units what units this lab uses and

evaluate all my test results?

Can you tell from what I have given you if they jumped the gun on

starting the TRT? Should they have done more testing or tried

something else first?

Since they have started me, I wish I knew the right thing to say to

the nurse practitioner to get her to get the doctor to go ahead and

have the two week follow up test done Saturday. She's stuck in the

middle between me trying to get the test done per the AndroGel

literature and what the Doc is telling her to do.

Thanks for any help!!

> >

> > >I tested 319 total T the last time I was tested and the lab has

> 350

> > >as the bottom of their normal range. The new urologist that I

am

> > >seeing agreed to try me on AndroGel 5g to start with. I started

> it

> > >a week ago Saturday on the 5th. I don't feel any different.

> From

> > >what I have read I am not surprised, because it seems that few

> get

> > >the desired response from 5g. I weigh 215 so I am not a little

> guy

> > >and I don't expect it to be adequate. Here's the thing that

> causes

> > >me to post - my urologist wants to wait 8 weeks to test me. I

> asked

> > >(through the nurse practitioner) if I could be tested in two

> weeks

> > >like is on the product info (and I have read in several posts)

> and

> > >was told the doc wants to wait the 8 weeks. Is there any reason

> to

> > >wait the 8 weeks? Here is the response from the nurse

> practitioner -

> > >

> > >

> > >I spoke with Dr. xxxxx this AM. He prefers to wait for the

> original

> > >time period because symptom relief comes slowly regardless of

the

> > >rise in level. Due to potential side effects, we wouldn't want

> to

> > >over shoot our dosage. Hang in there.

> > >

> > >So I started an email response, but feel it won't do any good.

> What

> > >do you do in a case like this? Am I wrong to feel that I want

> > >tested sooner because I may be missing out on feeling better?

Is

> > >there really a reason to wait?

> > >

> > >Thanks for any thoughts you may have!

> >

> >

> > Did he run E2, LH, FSH, Prolactin?

> >

> > It scares me how many docs just write a scrip for T on seeing a

> low T

> > number. Please bring him a copy of the AACE guidelines

> >

> > http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

> >

> > and read up yourself what a proper round of diagnosis tests

should

> > include BEFORE starting TRT.

> >

> > But yes at your size I doubt 5 g packets will do much. I was on

1

> and

> > a 1/2 and it worked for me - for a time. (They make a pump model

> for

> > 1/2 doses and doubles.)

> >

> > ________________

> > I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

> > Terence

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Every person's absorption is different (some don't absorb much at all).

Additionally, every person reacts differently to the medication, which

is the norm with medicine. For example, one antihistamine that works

for one may not work for another.

You'll probably notice a big uptick the first 3-7 days as the Androgel,

coupled with your own T skyrockets your levels. However, your T will

either shut down, or scale back considerably as it senses the

additional T. It takes a few weeks for everything to stabilize.

You'll know much more then.

Bill

On Aug 18, 2006, at 9:21 AM, wondering2one wrote:

> Curious to see how his works out for you..I'm in very similar

> situation...low-end on T and midrange on LH. Just started Androgel

> yesterday. No changes yet. Amazing, been dealing with this for 10

> years and now I'm not happy it hasn't been fixed in 1 day. I'm also

> on 5mg Androgel - seems most say it isn't enough, but if my pre-

> treatment level was 299 and 5mg Andro gets most people to the 500

> range - shouldn't I be in the 700's rather quickly. At least until

> my own production slows down?

>

>

> > > >

> > > > >I tested 319 total T the last time I was tested and the lab

> has

> > > 350

> > > > >as the bottom of their normal range. The new urologist that I

> > am

> > > > >seeing agreed to try me on AndroGel 5g to start with. I

> started

> > > it

> > > > >a week ago Saturday on the 5th. I don't feel any different.

> > > From

> > > > >what I have read I am not surprised, because it seems that

> few

> > > get

> > > > >the desired response from 5g. I weigh 215 so I am not a

> little

> > > guy

> > > > >and I don't expect it to be adequate. Here's the thing that

> > > causes

> > > > >me to post - my urologist wants to wait 8 weeks to test me. I

> > > asked

> > > > >(through the nurse practitioner) if I could be tested in two

> > > weeks

> > > > >like is on the product info (and I have read in several

> posts)

> > > and

> > > > >was told the doc wants to wait the 8 weeks. Is there any

> reason

> > > to

> > > > >wait the 8 weeks? Here is the response from the nurse

> > > practitioner -

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >I spoke with Dr. xxxxx this AM. He prefers to wait for the

> > > original

> > > > >time period because symptom relief comes slowly regardless of

> > the

> > > > >rise in level. Due to potential side effects, we wouldn't

> want

> > > to

> > > > >over shoot our dosage. Hang in there.

> > > > >

> > > > >So I started an email response, but feel it won't do any

> good.

> > > What

> > > > >do you do in a case like this? Am I wrong to feel that I want

> > > > >tested sooner because I may be missing out on feeling better?

> > Is

> > > > >there really a reason to wait?

> > > > >

> > > > >Thanks for any thoughts you may have!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Did he run E2, LH, FSH, Prolactin?

> > > >

> > > > It scares me how many docs just write a scrip for T on seeing

> a

> > > low T

> > > > number. Please bring him a copy of the AACE guidelines

> > > >

> > > > http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

> > > >

> > > > and read up yourself what a proper round of diagnosis tests

> > should

> > > > include BEFORE starting TRT.

> > > >

> > > > But yes at your size I doubt 5 g packets will do much. I was

> on

> > 1

> > > and

> > > > a 1/2 and it worked for me - for a time. (They make a pump

> model

> > > for

> > > > 1/2 doses and doubles.)

> > > >

> > > > ________________

> > > > I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

> > > > Terence

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

If your cortisol test was in the morning you dam low and should do more testing

on this. Also it looks like to me you are Secondary this means your pituitary

is not sending the LH and FSH messages to your Testis to make T. You should

have an MRI done on this. I have low Cortisol, DHEA-S, IGF-1, Thyroid and my

Glucose fasting is low along with the testosterone. I was told 23 yrs. ago I am

primary my testis don't make enough T. I went on HCG last yr. and my levels

doubled so my testis work. Now I am told I am Hypopituitary do to a head injury

23 yrs. ago. Yes do more testing find out why your low. Please don't get upset

on what I just told you it is not life threatening.

Here is a link to a site about Andrenal Problems and if you use the lab here

the Canary Club you can do this Test on your cortisol it is a saliva test cost

is about $140.00. You will see were your cortisol levels are morning noon

dinner and bedtime.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

And this link is about the Pituitary Gland.

http://www.pituitary.org.uk/resources/pit-gland.htm

Good luck with the Dr.

Phil

kincaiddave <dave@...> wrote:

Phil,

They didn't give units on everything, but here is what I have.

FSH 3.4 MIU/ML range 1.3 - 19.3

LH 3.8 MIU/ML range 1.2 - 8.6

Cortisol 9.9 MCG/DL range 8.7 - 22.4

Testosterone 319 (no units given) range 350 - 890

Can you tell from the above units what units this lab uses and

evaluate all my test results?

Can you tell from what I have given you if they jumped the gun on

starting the TRT? Should they have done more testing or tried

something else first?

Since they have started me, I wish I knew the right thing to say to

the nurse practitioner to get her to get the doctor to go ahead and

have the two week follow up test done Saturday. She's stuck in the

middle between me trying to get the test done per the AndroGel

literature and what the Doc is telling her to do.

Thanks for any help!!

> >

> > >I tested 319 total T the last time I was tested and the lab has

> 350

> > >as the bottom of their normal range. The new urologist that I

am

> > >seeing agreed to try me on AndroGel 5g to start with. I started

> it

> > >a week ago Saturday on the 5th. I don't feel any different.

> From

> > >what I have read I am not surprised, because it seems that few

> get

> > >the desired response from 5g. I weigh 215 so I am not a little

> guy

> > >and I don't expect it to be adequate. Here's the thing that

> causes

> > >me to post - my urologist wants to wait 8 weeks to test me. I

> asked

> > >(through the nurse practitioner) if I could be tested in two

> weeks

> > >like is on the product info (and I have read in several posts)

> and

> > >was told the doc wants to wait the 8 weeks. Is there any reason

> to

> > >wait the 8 weeks? Here is the response from the nurse

> practitioner -

> > >

> > >

> > >I spoke with Dr. xxxxx this AM. He prefers to wait for the

> original

> > >time period because symptom relief comes slowly regardless of

the

> > >rise in level. Due to potential side effects, we wouldn't want

> to

> > >over shoot our dosage. Hang in there.

> > >

> > >So I started an email response, but feel it won't do any good.

> What

> > >do you do in a case like this? Am I wrong to feel that I want

> > >tested sooner because I may be missing out on feeling better?

Is

> > >there really a reason to wait?

> > >

> > >Thanks for any thoughts you may have!

> >

> >

> > Did he run E2, LH, FSH, Prolactin?

> >

> > It scares me how many docs just write a scrip for T on seeing a

> low T

> > number. Please bring him a copy of the AACE guidelines

> >

> > http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

> >

> > and read up yourself what a proper round of diagnosis tests

should

> > include BEFORE starting TRT.

> >

> > But yes at your size I doubt 5 g packets will do much. I was on

1

> and

> > a 1/2 and it worked for me - for a time. (They make a pump model

> for

> > 1/2 doses and doubles.)

> >

> > ________________

> > I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

> > Terence

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I will add my two cents as well (man a couple more emails and you'll have a

dime:)

anyway, most primary patients have surpranormal FSH and LH levels and still

have low normal to extreme low T...while secondary patients have lower LH/FSH

levels and similaraly low T levels. as Dan said..ur in the gray zone. it's

obvious your Testicles do make some testostorone as you have levels that are at

least in the range given. however...it doesn't seem u would want to use HCG as

sole treatment seeing you'd have to hike up your LH values to the extreme max to

pump out more T..and to much LH is not good.

my LH numbers are similar to yours..around 4 and my T levels is high 300/low

400 at any given time. I do have some labs early on after quitting some

different medication that caused my LH to go to 7.8 and corresponding T was 484

(ref 24-847..that's the highest it ever measured over the last 1.5 years since

i've been dealing with this stuff). so while i think im secondary im more than

likely primary. i too am in the gray area.

im taking TRT injections and currently trying to find the appropriate dosage

for myself. i will be trying to include HCG into my protocol to continue my own

prod'n of T to remain fertile and keep testicles from atrophy. but in all

honesty..i am only pursueing HCG for fertility. hopefully it'll work!

jack

Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany@...> wrote:

Hey kincaiddave,

I will throw my 2 cents in. Your FSH and LH which are required to stimulate your

testicles to produce T are in the mid-point of the range. Unfortunately you are

kind of in the gray zone and could be either primary or secondary or possible

both. My gut tells me you are primary with these levels and TRT might be the

most appropriate thing. It is up to you if you want to consider addressing the

possible secondary treatment like HCG. Most folks don't think this treatment

long term will work too well and eventually you will be come primary and require

T externally.

Don't go too long before getting tested especially on 5 g of androgel (typically

a low dose for most men). If you are not feeling any positive changes within 2

weeks it probably is not working for you are it isn't enough. Keep in mind that

you should feel great for a few weeks until your testicles quit producing and

you are running solely on the androgel.

Good Luck - Arkansas

kincaiddave <dave@...> wrote:

Phil,

They didn't give units on everything, but here is what I have.

FSH 3.4 MIU/ML range 1.3 - 19.3

LH 3.8 MIU/ML range 1.2 - 8.6

Cortisol 9.9 MCG/DL range 8.7 - 22.4

Testosterone 319 (no units given) range 350 - 890

Can you tell from the above units what units this lab uses and

evaluate all my test results?

Can you tell from what I have given you if they jumped the gun on

starting the TRT? Should they have done more testing or tried

something else first?

Since they have started me, I wish I knew the right thing to say to

the nurse practitioner to get her to get the doctor to go ahead and

have the two week follow up test done Saturday. She's stuck in the

middle between me trying to get the test done per the AndroGel

literature and what the Doc is telling her to do.

Thanks for any help!!

> >

> > >I tested 319 total T the last time I was tested and the lab has

> 350

> > >as the bottom of their normal range. The new urologist that I

am

> > >seeing agreed to try me on AndroGel 5g to start with. I started

> it

> > >a week ago Saturday on the 5th. I don't feel any different.

> From

> > >what I have read I am not surprised, because it seems that few

> get

> > >the desired response from 5g. I weigh 215 so I am not a little

> guy

> > >and I don't expect it to be adequate. Here's the thing that

> causes

> > >me to post - my urologist wants to wait 8 weeks to test me. I

> asked

> > >(through the nurse practitioner) if I could be tested in two

> weeks

> > >like is on the product info (and I have read in several posts)

> and

> > >was told the doc wants to wait the 8 weeks. Is there any reason

> to

> > >wait the 8 weeks? Here is the response from the nurse

> practitioner -

> > >

> > >

> > >I spoke with Dr. xxxxx this AM. He prefers to wait for the

> original

> > >time period because symptom relief comes slowly regardless of

the

> > >rise in level. Due to potential side effects, we wouldn't want

> to

> > >over shoot our dosage. Hang in there.

> > >

> > >So I started an email response, but feel it won't do any good.

> What

> > >do you do in a case like this? Am I wrong to feel that I want

> > >tested sooner because I may be missing out on feeling better?

Is

> > >there really a reason to wait?

> > >

> > >Thanks for any thoughts you may have!

> >

> >

> > Did he run E2, LH, FSH, Prolactin?

> >

> > It scares me how many docs just write a scrip for T on seeing a

> low T

> > number. Please bring him a copy of the AACE guidelines

> >

> > http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

> >

> > and read up yourself what a proper round of diagnosis tests

should

> > include BEFORE starting TRT.

> >

> > But yes at your size I doubt 5 g packets will do much. I was on

1

> and

> > a 1/2 and it worked for me - for a time. (They make a pump model

> for

> > 1/2 doses and doubles.)

> >

> > ________________

> > I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

> > Terence

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

First low Cortisol can make your Testosterone go down if you can find a Dr. to

treat you for Adrenal Fatigue you would feel much better. But the problem is

most don't believe in Adrenal Fatigue. You also need to have your Thyroid

tested and just have this done TSH, Free T4 and Free T 3. Most that have a low

cortisol level have Thyroid problems because the thyroid need cortisol to work

right. Go to this like and read this Thread it is dam long but worth the read.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/adrenal-thread-134240195.html

It sounds like your on the Gel for more then 2 weeks and not doing good. You

upped the dose for one day and the next went back down and felt bad this tells

me your dose is not high enough. Call your Dr. and tell him a white lie tell

him you started to feel real good the 2nd week and now you feel worse then

before you started. Ask if you can up the dose you don't feel it is high

enough.

As for your Cortisol levels do the test I posted to you about and see what you

levels are moning, noon, dinner and night. You can treat them with OCT counter

suppelments. I do Maca, Zinc/Copper, A Multi Vit., B- Complex, Fish Oil 3 grams

a day, Vit. C as much as you can take with out getting the runs. DHEA if your

levels are lower then 400. and End Fatigue Adrenal Stress Formal.

The Maca I buy by the pound and take a tsp full in some apple sauce in the

morning and a tsp at noon in some yogurt. This is dam good for your libido and

levels off your hormones. Here are some links on what I take.

http://macaweb.com/

this tells you about Maca.

http://www.rain-tree.com/maca.htm

You need copper with zinc because zinc lowers copper.

http://www.myvitanet.com/zincop100cnt.html

http://www.myvitanet.com/clinnutforse.html

http://www.myvitanet.com/endfadaenbco.html

I can only take 2 of Vit. C one every 12 hrs but if you can take 3 it's

better.

http://www.myvitanet.com/supbiocbuf36.html

I get my Fish Oil at Cascos the kind that is coated so you don't burp them up.

http://www.myvitanet.com/dhea260capph.html

take this for you low cortisol levels

http://www.myvitanet.com/adsolfrac50c.html

I know there is a lot here but doing this will save you alot of time searching

about this.

The day you read this go to this site and print out a chart on taking your

Temp. and start taking you Temp 3 to 4 times a day and chart the avg. It all in

this link.

http://www.drrind.com/tempgraph.asp#directions

And I use this to take my temp.

http://www.wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com/Products/Thermometer.htm

When I first started taking the supplements and my Temp my Temp was all over

the place. And my avg. was just 97.2 in 45 days my Temp. little by little came

up to 98.6 and my Testosterone levels went way up so much we had to lower my

meds. I feel if you try this your will feel much better.

Phil

kincaiddave <no_reply > wrote:

Phil,

Thanks for the response and questions.

The test was in the morning. The lab range for cortisol was broken

down into AM specimen or PM specimen. The range of 8.7 - 22.4 was

listed for the AM specimen. So I have to agree with you that I am

low, but that doesn't mean much to me due to my ignorance of

cortisol.

I still haven't noticed much if any change since starting the 5g

AndroGel. On Saturday (right or wrong) I decided to cheat and use

two of the packets. I tried to decide if I felt better or not and

decided that maybe I felt a bit better. It was hard to tell. The

next day (yesterday) I went back to one packet and felt bad all

day. I couldn't get myself to do anything. We had tickets to go to

an event, but I wasn't up to it. I didn't feel better until about

7:00 or 8:00PM.

Does this make sense? Did my higher dose one day and going back to

the prescribed dose the next cause me to crash on my T level? I

can't help but think that that is what happened and that I won't do

that again.

It also makes me think that getting my T level up in the proper

range is that much more important to me, since I think I felt what

it is like to have a dip down lower than my normal low T level. I

just wish I knew how to influence my doc to not make me wait so long

to test me next.

Thanks for the help to those that have posted!

> > >

> > > >I tested 319 total T the last time I was tested and the lab

has

> > 350

> > > >as the bottom of their normal range. The new urologist that I

> am

> > > >seeing agreed to try me on AndroGel 5g to start with. I

started

> > it

> > > >a week ago Saturday on the 5th. I don't feel any different.

> > From

> > > >what I have read I am not surprised, because it seems that

few

> > get

> > > >the desired response from 5g. I weigh 215 so I am not a

little

> > guy

> > > >and I don't expect it to be adequate. Here's the thing that

> > causes

> > > >me to post - my urologist wants to wait 8 weeks to test me. I

> > asked

> > > >(through the nurse practitioner) if I could be tested in two

> > weeks

> > > >like is on the product info (and I have read in several

posts)

> > and

> > > >was told the doc wants to wait the 8 weeks. Is there any

reason

> > to

> > > >wait the 8 weeks? Here is the response from the nurse

> > practitioner -

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >I spoke with Dr. xxxxx this AM. He prefers to wait for the

> > original

> > > >time period because symptom relief comes slowly regardless of

> the

> > > >rise in level. Due to potential side effects, we wouldn't

want

> > to

> > > >over shoot our dosage. Hang in there.

> > > >

> > > >So I started an email response, but feel it won't do any

good.

> > What

> > > >do you do in a case like this? Am I wrong to feel that I want

> > > >tested sooner because I may be missing out on feeling better?

> Is

> > > >there really a reason to wait?

> > > >

> > > >Thanks for any thoughts you may have!

> > >

> > >

> > > Did he run E2, LH, FSH, Prolactin?

> > >

> > > It scares me how many docs just write a scrip for T on seeing

a

> > low T

> > > number. Please bring him a copy of the AACE guidelines

> > >

> > > http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

> > >

> > > and read up yourself what a proper round of diagnosis tests

> should

> > > include BEFORE starting TRT.

> > >

> > > But yes at your size I doubt 5 g packets will do much. I was

on

> 1

> > and

> > > a 1/2 and it worked for me - for a time. (They make a pump

model

> > for

> > > 1/2 doses and doubles.)

> > >

> > > ________________

> > > I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

> > > Terence

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

It will have to do there are more much more tests needed this just total but

lets see what it is.

Phil

kincaiddave <no_reply > wrote:

I emailed the nurse practitioner a couple of times and finally got

her to issue the lab order. I'm happy that she did that, but she

only made the order for total T. I guess since I don't really feel

that the gel has significantly changed my T level, there is no need

for testing anything other than T at this time. I'll post my

results when I get them next week and also what the doc says.

> Wow - thanks for all the info. I had a long day today and have

not

> had as much time as I would like to go through all of this. I will

> though.

>

> I took my temp and it is 97.8 with a thermometer like the one you

> use. I have gotten low readings like that much of the time in the

> past. When I have asked about the low reading before, I have been

> told that different people have different " normal " temperatures.

> From what I read in the link you posted, that is not really true.

> I'll have to plot my temps. I just took it again and got 97.5.

>

> I don't feel so great about misleading the doc. You might be right

> that that is what I should do (tell a little white lie), but even

> though we have not started out so great, I'm hoping to develop a

> relationship where he feels like working with me to get me fixed

up.

>

> Thanks for all the info!! You help a lot people with your

knowledge.

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Dave - we have a similar history. I was first diagnosed at 225 and told that

was OK. Went another year - feeling like crap with no sex drive and ED. Tested

again at 180. Put on AG and did not absorb. Started at 5 g a day and my T was

188 (no change). Due to my insurance I had to try the patch -that was another

bad story - After finding this forum I discussed injections with my Doc - he

agreed and it has been the best therapy for me. Also had to get on arimidex due

to high E2. Some people don't absorb it well and best I can tell is even at 10 g

AG a day, your T levels will still not be where you need them based on your

initial indications. It works for some but not all. It took me a year to get

where I feel good 95% of the time - still tweeking.

My 2 Cents - Arkansas

kincaiddave <no_reply > wrote:

I got the results today from the test done Saturday. My T level is

down to 161.

To recap - my first test about a year ago was 224 (this was done at

another lab - I mistakenly posted it was 242). The test done a few

weeks ago was 319 at the new lab (ref. range 350-890). I was started

on 5g AndroGel and have definately not felt any better and some days

for sure worse.

With the new test result coming in at 161 total T, I was given the go

ahead to change to 10g AG/day.

I must say from all the posts that I have read and my results to date,

I am very skeptical that the AG is going to do the trick. My best

hope at the moment is that it will get me in range for a while, but I

have just not read about many that have long term good results from

AG. I hope this is because when someone does get good results they

are no longer active on the forums.

Has anyone had good long term results on AG?

I'm going to write an email to the nurse practitioner requesting that

I be retested in two weeks this time. I will also ask to have all the

recommended testing, not just T. I'm going to bring up my low

cortisol level also, like Phil pointed out.

Any suggestions are more than welcome!

>

> I emailed the nurse practitioner a couple of times and finally got

> her to issue the lab order. I'm happy that she did that, but she

> only made the order for total T. I guess since I don't really feel

> that the gel has significantly changed my T level, there is no need

> for testing anything other than T at this time. I'll post my

> results when I get them next week and also what the doc says.

>

---------------------------------

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out.

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 03:00:21 -0000, you wrote:

>

>With the new test result coming in at 161 total T, I was given the go

>ahead to change to 10g AG/day.

Have they tested prolactin and E2? Have they done an MRI?

You should most likely not start on TRT until these are done.

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

[Guest guest]

I was on Androgel then Testim and my levels only went up to 600 my labs range is

262 to 1598 so 600 is to dam low. So my Dr. had me come in for a 200mg shot

every 2 weeks this got my levels up but also my Estradiol went nuts. I had sore

joints and muscles and was house bound of most of the time on it. As the days

went by I got worse. Last yr. I switched to shots and my pain was all but gone

in 6 weeks. I feel the gels don't get the T to the joints and muscles like the

shots do. A lot of guys stop using it because there skin stops letting the gel

in. Or they start getting a bad rash. If you were on 5 grams and your levels

only went to 161 you need to get off the gel I don't think 10 grams will do the

job sounds like it's not getting through the skin.

Phil

kincaiddave <no_reply > wrote:

I got the results today from the test done Saturday. My T level is

down to 161.

To recap - my first test about a year ago was 224 (this was done at

another lab - I mistakenly posted it was 242). The test done a few

weeks ago was 319 at the new lab (ref. range 350-890). I was started

on 5g AndroGel and have definately not felt any better and some days

for sure worse.

With the new test result coming in at 161 total T, I was given the go

ahead to change to 10g AG/day.

I must say from all the posts that I have read and my results to date,

I am very skeptical that the AG is going to do the trick. My best

hope at the moment is that it will get me in range for a while, but I

have just not read about many that have long term good results from

AG. I hope this is because when someone does get good results they

are no longer active on the forums.

Has anyone had good long term results on AG?

I'm going to write an email to the nurse practitioner requesting that

I be retested in two weeks this time. I will also ask to have all the

recommended testing, not just T. I'm going to bring up my low

cortisol level also, like Phil pointed out.

Any suggestions are more than welcome!

>

> I emailed the nurse practitioner a couple of times and finally got

> her to issue the lab order. I'm happy that she did that, but she

> only made the order for total T. I guess since I don't really feel

> that the gel has significantly changed my T level, there is no need

> for testing anything other than T at this time. I'll post my

> results when I get them next week and also what the doc says.

>

[Guest guest]

I have been on TRT for 22 yrs and just found out I am not Primary but have a bad

Pituitary do to a head injury go do the MRI if you feel upset about it get your

Dr. to give you some Xanax to take first. Now that I know I am Hypopituitary we

are treating my low normal DHEA, IGF-1, Cortisol and Thyroid.

Phil

kincaiddave <no_reply > wrote:

My prolactin tested at 5.6 - they didn't provide units or a lab

range.

My E2 tested at 21 - same here - no units or range provided. If

they use the same units and ranges like other posters' labs, my E2

is right were I want it - right? This was before the start of AG.

The docs have not mentioned an MRI. I am extremely fortunate to be

able to get an MRI for free, I just have to drive 7 hours. Maybe

this is just my ignorance, but I have not felt terribly motivated to

get the MRI. I now believe that I have had low T for something like

thirty years now. Doesn't seem like a tumor to me. Am I wrong?

Thanks!!

>

> >

> >With the new test result coming in at 161 total T, I was given

the go

> >ahead to change to 10g AG/day.

>

> Have they tested prolactin and E2? Have they done an MRI?

>

> You should most likely not start on TRT until these are done.

>

> ________________

> I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

> Terence

>

[Guest guest]

Hi your skin is not letting the gel get into your blood you need to go to shots

do 100mgs and the gel the same day then drop the gel. How do you get a Dr. to

work with Dr. you tell him I what Dr. to treat me trough you I am not

getting anywhere and Dr. teaches other Dr.'s on Testing and Treating men

with low T. Go to www.allthingsmale.com and print TRT: A Recipe for Success and

the HCG update show this your Dr. and tell him you need to try the shots like

this starting at 100mgs a week and you need your Estradiol tested show him these

links.

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

http://www.smart-drugs.com/ias-estrogen.htm

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

Get the book " The Testosterone Syndrome " and give it to him.

I had to do all of this to get my Dr. on board.

Phil

kincaiddave <no_reply > wrote:

I changed to 10g of AndroGel two weeks ago and just got blood work

done. The doc only made the order for total T. The result was

331. I hope it was not a big deal that I had the blood drawn at

about 8:00 at night.

Even though my doc seems to be against injections, should I push for

them or seek another doc? Any suggestions on other options, creams,

etc? If I am learning correctly, with only an increase this small,

I surely wouldn't benefit from an AI would I? Pre TRT my E2 tested

at 21.

I found a local doc on the Testosterone Tuneup list and gave them a

call. Maybe I used the wrong approach, but I said that I would like

to talk to the doc. I said I would be happy to make an appointment

in order to do so. The receptionist or whatever said that I would

have to have my records sent over and become a patient. I asked if

I couldn't just chat first and was told that it was all (become a

patient) or nothing.

How do you go about getting your doc to work with Dr. ? I'm

actually asking about the psychology involved. Doctors tend to have

big egos. How has it worked for others to get Dr. involved

without crushing that big ego and the doc telling you (even if he is

not this blunt) that he doesn't need any outside help because he

knows what he is doing?

As always, thanks for the help!

---------------------------------

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

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[Guest guest]

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 03:56:08 -0000, you wrote:

>I changed to 10g of AndroGel two weeks ago and just got blood work

>done. The doc only made the order for total T. The result was

>331. I hope it was not a big deal that I had the blood drawn at

>about 8:00 at night.

The time shouldn't matter significantly for folks on TRT. You're

natural cycle is not at work. Levels stay relatively consistent

throughout the day.

You need an E2 test to see how much is converting. For me T absorbtion

worked well with gels for a while, but hair and skin thickening

diminished it so I had to move back to shots.

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 03:56:08 -0000, you wrote:

>I changed to 10g of AndroGel two weeks ago and just got blood work

>done. The doc only made the order for total T. The result was

>331. I hope it was not a big deal that I had the blood drawn at

>about 8:00 at night.

>

>Even though my doc seems to be against injections, should I push for

>them or seek another doc? Any suggestions on other options, creams,

>etc? If I am learning correctly, with only an increase this small,

>I surely wouldn't benefit from an AI would I? Pre TRT my E2 tested

>at 21.

I don't understand why he opposes injections. They're about $2000

cheaper over a year and work better for most - if done at least weekly

and with some E2 management.

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

[Guest guest]

Here is my take on this you need more testing Thyriod, fasting Glucose, DHEA-S,

IGF-1, and more. For you Thyriod do TSH, Free T3 and Free T4. Go here and read

this thread it is dam long but full of info and a lot of posting by Dr.'s in

this thread.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/adrenal-thread-134240195.html

Go to this link and read about low Adrenals and Thyroid.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

Start taking your Temp and charting it this will show you if your Adrenals are

off.

http://www.drrind.com/tempgraph.asp#directions

I use this to take my Temp.

http://www.wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com/Products/Thermometer.htm

Read this stuff and start taking your Temp I also check me morning Temp before

getting out of bed first thing in the morning under my arm if it is less then

97.8 your Thyroid is low.

Do all of this before you see your Dr. and fire him.

Phil

kincaiddave <no_reply > wrote:

I got my MRI done Sunday and it is negative. I am very fortunate to

have a brother that owns an MRI clinic - that's why it was done on a

Sunday.

With the MRI coming up negative, that has me trying to figure out

why my T, LH, and FSH are low. I still have a lot to learn, but I'm

thinking that maybe it is like Phil has said that I need to get my

cortisol up. I tested at 9.9 (range of 8.7 - 22.4) on an AM test.

Phil just posted a link

(http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/w/u/wurmstei/) and I read some of

it (Thanks Phil!!). The part where low cortisol was discussed and

having aching feet and sleep apnea/snoring realy caught my eye. My

feet get to aching if I am on them for a few minutes. I have been

diagnosed with sleep apnea after an overnight stay at a sleep clinic.

Should I get some Isocort and try that or wait for my appointment

with the doc next week and roll the dice with him? I plan on giving

him one more shot before I jump ship on him.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!!

>

> >I changed to 10g of AndroGel two weeks ago and just got blood

work

> >done. The doc only made the order for total T. The result was

> >331. I hope it was not a big deal that I had the blood drawn at

> >about 8:00 at night.

> >

> >Even though my doc seems to be against injections, should I push

for

> >them or seek another doc? Any suggestions on other options,

creams,

> >etc? If I am learning correctly, with only an increase this

small,

> >I surely wouldn't benefit from an AI would I? Pre TRT my E2

tested

> >at 21.

>

> I don't understand why he opposes injections. They're about $2000

> cheaper over a year and work better for most - if done at least

weekly

> and with some E2 management.

>

> ________________

> I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

> Terence

>

---------------------------------

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