My liver detox experience

August 23, 2002

I am 27 years old male. I have been living on natural food diet for

over 3 years now. My principal is not to eat any processed foods. At

the same time I eat many foods which are a `no-no' according to the

current views of the medical community – with one difference – eat

organic whole foods. I eat organic whole milk yogurt because skim

milk has oxidized powdered milk, I eat 6-8 organic grade AA free

range eggs a week. I base my diet mostly on organic deep color fruits

and vegetables. I eat only whole grain bread. I eat many types of raw

nuts and not sulfured dried fruits. I eat fish and sometimes organic

chicken, but no meat. I also eat seafood. I use organic unfiltered

apple cider and balsamic vinegars. I use organic extra virgin olive

oil and virgin coconut oil (97% saturated fat). I eat unpasteurized

organic goat cheese. I eat a lot of raw garlic and red onion and many

vegetables are very lightly steamed. I also eat raw green sprouts. I

take a very limited number of supplements – basically antioxidants -

vitamin E, selenium, Q10, and alpha-lipoic acid to fight free

radicals. I start my morning with exercise and one big glass of

freshly squeezed apple juice from organic apples. I go to gym 4-6

times a week and my weekends are pretty active. I also water fast 36

hours every week (no food and juices at all – just plenty of water).

I have bowel movement within 2 hours after every meal. My main meal

is breakfast, lunch is pretty big too and dinner is light.

Just for those who might want to make comments about my high

saturated fat and cholesterol intake. I have cholesterol level at

125. I ran a mile in 6 minutes and 40 seconds and 3 miles in about 21

minutes. My heart beats slow and strong and my breathing is very

easy, slow and deep. I have not even had a simple cold for over three

years.

Last Saturday, I have finally finished preparations and did liver

flush with Epsom salt, grapefruit juice and organic extra virgin

olive oil. I fasted for 40 hours and broke the fast with freshly

squeezed apple juice on Saturday 9am. At about noon, I had 2 large

apples for lunch and than no food again. At 5:55pm, I made a solution

of 4 tablespoons of Epsom salt in 3 cups of water. This solution was

to be taken 4 times. At 6:00, I took the first portion. Although I

was on a complete water fast for about 40 hours and than most of the

day on Saturday, I had a pretty big bowel movement at about 7:40pm.

Epsom salt must have started doing its job.

Another portion at 8pm. At 10pm, I took a mixture of 1/2 cups of

organic cold pressed extra virgin olive oil and freshly squeezed

juice from 1 large grapefruit and some black walnut tincture. I drank

it in one quick shot and laid down on the back right away. I relaxed

and focused my attention on my liver trying to visualize bile flowing

through bile ducts and stones moving.

Somehow my relaxation turned into sleep. I had a very good sleep

until about 1pm. When I woke up, I had a bowel movement and only a

few stones. The smell was normal. I went back to sleep. Next morning,

at 6:15am I took the third portion of the Epsom salt solution and 15

minutes later I had a bowel movement again – only a few stones and

the small is normal. The last Epsom salt portion was taken at 8:15am.

Bowel movement again – few small green color stones. At 10am, I had

large glass freshly squeezed apple juice. At 10:30am, I ate 2 large

apples.

That's when the whole thing started. I had a very strong bowel

movement – no stool, but what came out was bile – green color liquid.

At this time, I had most of stones – small and large. But the most

amazing part was not stones. The most amazing part was smell. I have

NEVER in my whole life smelt such a terrible smell. It was so

saturated and intense that I could not even stay and examine the

stones any closer. I flushed the whole thing and went to relax.

I felt strange and dizzy the rest of the day. I ate only fruits. Next

day – felt much better. Day after that – felt completely normal. One

more day and I had a very bad skin infection on the face – I still

have it as of right now – 6 days after the liver flush – although I

can see it's improving.

On a positive side, I noticed that dark color bags under my eyes,

which I have always had, became about 30% smaller. I also had much

less white coating on my tongue even after eating fat food. My eye

whites became less yellowish and red capillaries about 25% became

smaller.

Now, I am waiting for my immune system to kill my skin infection. In

3 weeks, I am going to do my second flush. Many people say that the

second flush is the most productive because the first flush a kind of

more softens stones and make them loose rather than purge them out. I

feel extremely excited and cannot wait.

Although, I could not count all my stones after this flush because of

extremely strong and disgusting smell, I think I had about a hundred

small green stones and a less than 8-10 tan stones about ¼ inch in

size.

Before the flush I still was not 100% sure if to believe or not in

this kind of natural therapy. I did not know if the stones are really

stones or just some weird form of olive oil you take for the flush.

But it became clear that no matter what the stones really are, the

smell that came out of me is a prove that the whole procedure of

liver detox is working. This kind of smell just does not come out by

itself and I cannot stop thinking how much debris the liver must

contain to make such a smell. Truly amazing!

August 24, 2002

Hi Shiela:

Do you do more gentle liver flushes? I've been tempted to try them, but I

can't get myself to take the epsom salts and that volume of olive oil. (I'm

chicken and don't want to cause any internal bleeding since my platelet

count is still well below normal.) Other liver flushes I've seen seem to

involve so much, and since I've been working at recovering from a serious

illness, I've been reluctant to do fasts which they all seem to require.

(Well, I'm recovering pretty good these days, so maybe that shouldn't be an

issue now.) But, I'm interesting in what other types of liver flushes there

are out there.

Thanks,

Marla

----- Original Message -----

> Personally I will never do another liver/ gall bladder flush

> involving olive oil, grapefruit juice and epsom salts. I did it as

> directed by my doctor and became very ill immediately after the go to

> bed part. My doctor was sorry for my discomfort and so was I. There

> are slower, but just as effective methods of liver and gall bladder

> detox. I would recommend these over the quick flush anyday.

> Sheila

>

August 24, 2002

Personally I will never do another liver/ gall bladder flush

involving olive oil, grapefruit juice and epsom salts. I did it as

directed by my doctor and became very ill immediately after the go to

bed part. My doctor was sorry for my discomfort and so was I. There

are slower, but just as effective methods of liver and gall bladder

detox. I would recommend these over the quick flush anyday.

Sheila

---------->do you recommend any particular one? any online sources or books

that you'd recommend which discuss slow liver and gall bladder flushes? i'm

not interested in making myself sick with a quick and harsh flush!

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

August 24, 2002

I too would love a recommendation for a slower liver flush. FYI the

olive oil/epsom etc. flush described by dzmeid is Hulda 's

protocol.

August 25, 2002

Hi Suze,

I can recommend a book which I believe someone else suggested not to

long ago. The book is Digestive Wellness by Lipski, M.S.,

C.C.N.. (ISBN 0-87983-679-2) The author suggests using the gall

bladder flush with the olive oil, etc., but only under the care of a

doctor. I did that and still got very sick. Maybe most people would

not have this problem, but why chance it? My doctor suggested I use

milk thistle on one occasion to correct my slightly high liver

enzymes. It worked beautifully. I have also used a metabolic

cleansing program several times. This system involves a hypoallergnic

sensitive rice-based protein/nutrient drink, purchased throuhg my

doctor's office. I have always used a modified diet with this

program. I think what you can eat is determined by the doctor based

on whatever your health problems happen to be. Screening for food

sensitivties can be accomplished as you reintroduce foods into your

diet. I have found this to be highly effective program, however it

was not until I began using HCL, digestive enzymes, fermented foods

and the other basic NT ways of eating, that I really saw any

permanent changes in my digestion. I have been able cut way down on

the HCL and the digestive enzymes, due to my healing and the better

diet.

I believe Dr. Byrnes has a book on digestion. I have not seen

it yet, but I think he is on the board of WAP, so it should fall into

line with our way of eating. Have you seen it?

All my best,

Sheila

> Personally I will never do another liver/ gall bladder flush

> involving olive oil, grapefruit juice and epsom salts. I did it as

> directed by my doctor and became very ill immediately after the go

to

> bed part. My doctor was sorry for my discomfort and so was I. There

> are slower, but just as effective methods of liver and gall bladder

> detox. I would recommend these over the quick flush anyday.

> Sheila

>

> ---------->do you recommend any particular one? any online sources

or books

> that you'd recommend which discuss slow liver and gall bladder

flushes? i'm

> not interested in making myself sick with a quick and harsh flush!

>

> Suze Fisher

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

> mailto:s.fisher22@v...

August 25, 2002

> > ---------->do you recommend any particular one? any online

sources

> or books

> > that you'd recommend which discuss slow liver and gall

bladder

> flushes? i'm

> > not interested in making myself sick with a quick and harsh

flush!

I read sometime in the past about a slower method than the

Hulda -type regimens that involved fasting for a couple days

on organic, unfiltered apple juice (something in the juice

supposedly softens gallstones). I don't remember all the

details, there may have been an oil component at the end to

cause the gallbladder to expell the stones. Anyone else know

about this method?

I'd think kombucha would be a good thing to add to a cleansing

such as a gallbladder/liver flush. Has anyone tried that?

Aubin

August 25, 2002

Hi Suze,

I can recommend a book which I believe someone else suggested not to

long ago. The book is Digestive Wellness by Lipski, M.S.,

C.C.N.. (ISBN 0-87983-679-2)

---------->LOL! *I* recommended that book! <BG> yes i see the pages where

she discusses this. and i do think i'd best not do this on my own. i can't

afford an naturopath or other alternative practitioner at the moment.

another good reason to do a gentle cleanse

I believe Dr. Byrnes has a book on digestion. I have not seen

it yet, but I think he is on the board of WAP, so it should fall into

line with our way of eating. Have you seen it?

------------->yep! got that one, too. been a while since i read it, but

don't recall any flush protocols. oh well, thanks for sharing your

experience with lipski's protocol

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

August 25, 2002

I saw something like this slower method you mention, in a Tradional

Chinese Medicine book. I'll see if I can find it. I remember

thinking, if I ever do an other gall bladder/liver flush, this might

be the way to go.

Sheila

--- In @y..., " aubinparrish " <aubinparrish@y...>

wrote:

>

> > > ---------->do you recommend any particular one? any online

> sources

> > or books

> > > that you'd recommend which discuss slow liver and gall

> bladder

> > flushes? i'm

> > > not interested in making myself sick with a quick and harsh

> flush!

>

> I read sometime in the past about a slower method than the

> Hulda -type regimens that involved fasting for a couple days

> on organic, unfiltered apple juice (something in the juice

> supposedly softens gallstones). I don't remember all the

> details, there may have been an oil component at the end to

> cause the gallbladder to expell the stones. Anyone else know

> about this method?

>

> I'd think kombucha would be a good thing to add to a cleansing

> such as a gallbladder/liver flush. Has anyone tried that?

>

> Aubin

August 25, 2002

>

> I read sometime in the past about a slower method than the

> Hulda -type regimens that involved fasting for a couple days

> on organic, unfiltered apple juice (something in the juice

> supposedly softens gallstones). I don't remember all the

> details, there may have been an oil component at the end to

> cause the gallbladder to expell the stones. Anyone else know

> about this method?

This sounds familiar, so I looked back at another list where they were

talking about magnesium causing the smooth muscles to relax. This person

used magnesium citrate in place of epsom salt to relax the muscles but you

would have to juice enough of it. Magnesium supposedly helps prevent the

formation of gallstones. Apparently, apples are a good source of malic acid

which together with phosphic acid helps soften and break up existing stones.

So she juiced lots of apples and also took phosphoric acid.

I think the reason I didn't try this was because she mentioned that she was

going to do a flush soon but was also going to have the epsom salt handy

just in case her bile duct tightened up. She didn't think it was fun to

have gallstones stuck in the bile duct. Yikes. Does this mean it got stuck

before? I guess I'm just a chicken and will have to do a very very slow

liver cleanse if I can find one that I have to guts to try!

Marla

August 25, 2002

Here's a more gentle liver flush from The Detox Book by Bruce Fife, he also

lists the epsom salts liver flush too.

Half a fresh lemon

2 grapefruits

2 tablespoons of olive oil

2 cascara sagrada capsules (or other herbal laxative)

The laxative takes time to work, so take them after your evening meal but

several hours before bedtime. Just before going to bed blend together the

juice of the lemon, the grapefruits (you can use apple juice instead if you

prefer) and the olive oil. Remove the pulp and drink. Go to bed immediately.

This drink is always taken at night because the liver is most active between

11pm and 1pm.

The herbal laxative will loosen the bowels and help speed intestinal

contents through the system. Toxins expelled into the small intestine by way

of the gall bladder and biliary ducts will be quickly removed. If toxins are

dumped into the intestines and allowed to sit in a slugish colon, many of

the poisons will be reabsorbed into the bloodstream. So taking a herbal

laxative is important. Do NOT use pharmaceutical laxatives, only a herbal

laxative.

I haven't tried this yet myself so I don't know how well it works. I've been

drinking plenty of kombucha though, and I have a glass at bedtime too, just

for my liver.

Den

> I read sometime in the past about a slower method than the

> Hulda -type regimens that involved fasting for a couple days

> on organic, unfiltered apple juice (something in the juice

> supposedly softens gallstones). I don't remember all the

> details, there may have been an oil component at the end to

> cause the gallbladder to expell the stones. Anyone else know

> about this method?

>

> I'd think kombucha would be a good thing to add to a cleansing

> such as a gallbladder/liver flush. Has anyone tried that?

>

> Aubin

August 25, 2002

Hi Den,

YOU WROTE: I've been > drinking plenty of kombucha though, and I have a

glass at bedtime too, just > for my liver.

I have been drinking Kombucha for almost 1 years, and recently I have been

having reactions to it. Bloating, headache, dizziness.

So I switched to apple cider vinegar (pure, homemade), and had the same

reaction.

It is almost as if it is aggravating candida, which I thought I had under

control.

I decided to try something different, so I recently began a low carb, high

fat diet. This makes my reaction to the Kombucha even worse.

Has anyone else had these reactions, or heard of them?

Thanks

Kat

http://www.katking.com

August 25, 2002

At 01:55 PM 8/25/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>I decided to try something different, so I recently began a low carb, high

>fat diet. This makes my reaction to the Kombucha even worse.

>

>Has anyone else had these reactions, or heard of them?

Kombucha is somewhat acidic. So I drink alkaline green juices to balance

(3-4 cups a day or more). If my memory serves me candida is also

acid-loving so that might explain your reactions. To a lesser extent I

have the same balancing act to do with green tea. I use a GreenLife to

juice using approximately 70% celery, 15% parsley, 15% zuchinni and throw

in a whole, juiced lime per 2-3 quarts to taste.

-=mark=-

August 26, 2002

At 01:55 PM 8/25/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>Has anyone else had these reactions, or heard of them?

>

>Thanks

>

>Kat

I have those reactions sometimes when eating something with " live " yeast.

Apparently yeast of a specific type: if I sample dough, for instance, or

some beer I made with baker's yeast. Kefir yeast beer does NOT have

that reaction. I made a few loaves of bread with kefir and THAT dough

does not have a reaction.

It could be possible, I suppose, that the kamboucha picked up a yeast

you don't get along with? Or you started getting allergic to a kamboucha

yeast? (bad thought, I know).

There are a zillion kinds of yeast, candida is only one -- but all of them

can cause bloating (they like to digest starches and sugars). It seems

odd you would have problems with any yeast though, with all the

fermented food you seem to eat.

Heidi

August 26, 2002

>>>>>>>I have those reactions sometimes when eating something with " live "

yeast.

Apparently yeast of a specific type: if I sample dough, for instance, or

some beer I made with baker's yeast. Kefir yeast beer does NOT have

that reaction. I made a few loaves of bread with kefir and THAT dough

does not have a reaction.

------->i'm glad to hear i'm not the only that reacts to certain things.

there are certain commercial beers i react to and others i don't. i think i

reacted to a slice of wheat bread the other day. but i can eat rye crips

without reacting. i have yet to understand what's going on...

>>>>>It could be possible, I suppose, that the kamboucha picked up a yeast

you don't get along with?

-------->i sometimes wonder this...i have a BAD mold problem in my kitchen,

right there on the two feet of counter space that i have to work on. ugghh!

i'm going to sand it down and polyurathane it soon, though. but i wonder if

the molds have gotten into my kefir, which has become waayyy too sour

lately, and sometimes smells like ammonia if i leave it out long. i also

wonder if the mold gets into my other food and if it's taken up residence in

my GI tract. i also have mold in my bathroom, and just today noticed how

moldy my lawn lounge chair and side table are. i feel like my whole

environment is moldy even though you'd never think it from the dry spell

we've had lately - my lawn is parched!

There are a zillion kinds of yeast, candida is only one

------->yeh, and there are more kinds of candida than just 'albicans' as

well. there's even, apparently, a kefir specific candida. i was hoping they

might outcompete albicans, but have no idea if they flourish in the same

environment...sigh.

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

August 26, 2002

>>>Here's a more gentle liver flush from The Detox Book by Bruce Fife, he

also

lists the epsom salts liver flush too.

Half a fresh lemon

2 grapefruits

2 tablespoons of olive oil

2 cascara sagrada capsules (or other herbal laxative)

-->oh thanks den! that looks gentler than the clark one, and maybe worth a

try. interesting, i read a mercury detox protocol recently that called for

using chitosan (fiber) or some other fiber supplement that is supposed to

sweep the toxins out of the colon so they won't be absorbed. i wonder if a

laxative or fiber work best for this purpose..?

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

August 26, 2002

At 10:12 PM 8/25/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>-------->i sometimes wonder this...i have a BAD mold problem in my kitchen,

>right there on the two feet of counter space that i have to work on. ugghh!

>i'm going to sand it down and polyurathane it soon, though. but i wonder if

>the molds have gotten into my kefir, which has become waayyy too sour

>lately, and sometimes smells like ammonia if i leave it out long. i also

>wonder if the mold gets into my other food and if it's taken up residence in

>my GI tract. i also have mold in my bathroom, and just today noticed how

>moldy my lawn lounge chair and side table are. i feel like my whole

>environment is moldy even though you'd never think it from the dry spell

>we've had lately - my lawn is parched!

I don't know what your real estate situation is, but if it was me, I'd

get out of there! Mold is really nasty stuff: I'm not particularly

allergic to it but I end up feeling kind of weird when it is there

in quantity. It seems like once it takes up residence it is hard to

get rid of. We moved a few years ago, which was a pain, but

I FINALLY have a good kitchen, and it makes all the difference (esp.

now that we cook so much from scratch).

As for the kefir: Have you tried putting it in the fridge? Making

it cold seems to improve it a lot.

Heidi

August 26, 2002

Jeez, Suze, I'd get the hell out of there pronto if it's at all

possible! I lived in a moldy house for about a year and I still haven't

entirely recovered, even though it's been over a year since I moved

out. Depending on the strains your exposed to and the particulars of your

physiology, it can do a LOT of damage. You could also have a claim against

your landlord; at the very least, you're presumably owed a domicile in good

repair and sans mold.

>i have a BAD mold problem in my kitchen,