Guest guest Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 Again, my relevant stats: Testosterone 144 L*** [260-1000] ng/dL Testosterone, Free 6.2 f [5-40] pg/mL Estradiol 19 10-50 pg/mL TSH (Thyroid Stim. H.) 2.47 [0.60-4.60] ulU/mL FSH, Serum 2.9 1.6-8.0 IU/L LH 3rd Generation 2.87 0.95-5.60 IU/L IGF-I 155 114-492 nq/mL > Armyguy wrote: By fertility, do you mean libido and amount of > ejaculation fluid, or do you mean sperm to have babies? I don't see > sperm test results below, if you have had a test, are you low? If > having babies is what you mean, then HCG is what you need to consider > taking. If you don't care about having babies, the testosterone > replacement with the possible addition of HCG is what you need to look > at. Your testosterone level is extremely low and is 99.9% the reason > for your depression and low libido. On the libido side, it's a pure lack of sexual thoughts, unless helped along by my wife. On the fertility side, I have a low sperm count as well. > Phil wrote: I think if you went on TRT you would feel much better, but > it can stop you from making a kid. Your Total T and Free T are too > low. It is hard for me to tell if you are Primary or Secondary. You > could start by trying HcG first. If this does not work then try > freezing some sperm so you can have kids later and go on TRT. Here is > a good link you should read: > > http://www.guideline.gov/summary/summary.aspx?doc_id=3524 Thank you for the link Phil, I will certainly follow up on that page. I do seem to fall out of the range of that chart, having low t without a corresponding change in lh/fsh levels. this leads me to think that I'm Primary, not secondary. the chart would have me diagnosed with Senescence... But it seems a bit early for me at 29. > Mark wrote: There is a reference table in this link you could > potentially use to try to narrow down the possibilities... > http://www.guideline.gov/summary/summary.aspx?doc_id=3524 I think he > is probably primary because his LH and FSH are normal? But I'm not > sure on that. The first time I had them tested they were very low > normal, and the second time way below normal. Can't remember if his > were normal or low-normal... Yes, Mark the lh and fsh were normal, tho the fsh was on the lower side. However my endo felt that those numbers would be on the other end of the range without the T in my body, since there would be almost nothing to regulate their production. > wrote: Your Testosterone is nasty low. Your Estradiol is low > cause your T is low, E is very important for libido. Your TSH is very > high, the new range is .6-2 and you want to be around 1-1.5 You igf-1 > is low, but will move up by taking Test. Your Cholesterol will improve > by taking Test. All in all, you need to get on a program stat. Thank you . I will read up more on TSH and be sure to bring this up with my Dr. > Bruce wrote: T is low enough to expect the symptoms you describe, and > treatment can be expected to increase libido and reduce depression > (and increase motivation). Fertility is another issue, many here would > go with HCG instead of testosterone replacement. The tests are from > last year and you're still frustrated and angry. Reading between the > lines, does this mean you don't have confidence in your doctor? I wish it was a lack of confidence. It's more a lack of money. my dr. is very good and very up to date. The endo that I saw ordered a whole battery of tests, many more than others have noted on the list. she still pronounced me idiopathic. Summary of my plan: Continue with my Welbutrin for the depression Talk to my doctor about HCG treatment and my TSH levels If we agree, I'll try the HCG treatment. If HCG doesn't work I'll freeze some sperm, and then try a TRT. I'm a firm believer in cause and effect. The biggest source of frustration is the lack of a cause. It drives me up the wall. Thank you to everyone for your thoughts. ..R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2004 Report Share Posted June 3, 2004 Your results DO NOT point totally to primary. Looks like you could be a mix of both primary and secondary. Your LH and FSH should be way higher with a T level that low. I would consider taking HCG to get things going for a few months. That way you will increase your T production and additionally increase your sperm count (not to mention your testicle size). HCG should help in all the departments that you are complaining about. Armyguy T is low enough to expect the symptoms you describe, and > > treatment can be expected to increase libido and reduce depression > > (and increase motivation). Fertility is another issue, many here would > > go with HCG instead of testosterone replacement. The tests are from > > last year and you're still frustrated and angry. Reading between the > > lines, does this mean you don't have confidence in your doctor? > > I wish it was a lack of confidence. It's more a lack of money. my dr. > is very good and very up to date. The endo that I saw ordered a whole > battery of tests, many more than others have noted on the list. she > still pronounced me idiopathic. > > Summary of my plan: > > Continue with my Welbutrin for the depression > Talk to my doctor about HCG treatment and my TSH levels > If we agree, I'll try the HCG treatment. > If HCG doesn't work I'll freeze some sperm, and then try a TRT. > > I'm a firm believer in cause and effect. The biggest source of > frustration is the lack of a cause. It drives me up the wall. > > Thank you to everyone for your thoughts. > > .R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2004 Report Share Posted June 3, 2004 > > > Hello, I am new to the group, and was wondering > if you could tell me what 'primary' and 'secondary' mean? > Does primary mean you have low testosterone because > of a tumor or something, and secondary means testosterone > is low because you are, say, taking a medication that > lowers it as a side effect? Primary means your testicles don't produce enough testosterone to prevent symptoms of hypogonadism. Secondary means your testicles work fine but aren't getting the proper hormonal signal to produce testosterone. In other words, your LH is too low. It is sometimes, but not always, due to drug side effects. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2004 Report Share Posted June 3, 2004 smith53, Your endo should be able to tell you if you're primary or secondary. Bruce > > > > > > > Hello, I am new to the group, and was wondering > > if you could tell me what 'primary' and 'secondary' mean? > > Does primary mean you have low testosterone because > > of a tumor or something, and secondary means testosterone > > is low because you are, say, taking a medication that > > lowers it as a side effect? > > Primary means your testicles don't produce enough testosterone to > prevent symptoms of hypogonadism. > > Secondary means your testicles work fine but aren't getting the proper > hormonal signal to produce testosterone. In other words, your LH is > too low. It is sometimes, but not always, due to drug side effects. > > Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Primary = your leydig cells in your testicles no longer work. The only option with 100% primary hypogonadism is full replacement. You are primary if, prior to any testosterone replacement, your testosterone level test low and your LH and FSH test high. Secondary = Your hypothalamus is not sending enough LH and FSH to your testicles. Your leydig cells in your testicles are fully capable of producing testosterone, however, they are not getting the appropriate signals from your hypothalamus to produce enough. In this case, HCG will work instead of TRT. You are secondary if, prior to any testosterone replacement, your testosterone test low and your LH and FSH test low. Note: You can be a mix of primary and secondary. If your T is low, and your LH and FSH are not low, but not super high either, then you may be a mix of primary and secondary. In that case, HCG might do the trick, or you might need HCG AND TRT. Armyguy > >Your results DO NOT point totally to primary. Looks like you could > >be a mix of both primary and secondary. Your LH and FSH should be > >way higher with a T level that low. I would consider taking HCG to > > > Hello, I am new to the group, and was wondering > if you could tell me what 'primary' and 'secondary' mean? > Does primary mean you have low testosterone because > of a tumor or something, and secondary means testosterone > is low because you are, say, taking a medication that > lowers it as a side effect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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