Re: Results of 4 months on Clomid/Seligiline topical cream

[Guest guest]

Tom,

First of all I am not a MD and can decribe you my own experience with

Clomid.

I do not know if cream would be same as pill, but 12mg/day (qurter of a

pill) raise my T

from 260 to 1000 in about a week and I've heard from a couple of guys about

same results, I think taht 100mg for a week should bring you over the lab

range if you really secondary.

As far as I know the primary function of Selegiline is to increase dopamine

level in the brain and not T.

About liver damage, I've been taking Clomid for 3-4 months monitoring my

liver (ALT and AST)

they have not changed at all, but again I've heard from others that Clomid

made their liver test

go over the limit.

I think that erectile function does not always correlate with T level, T is

more correlated with libido. I get nightly erections which wake me up and

last for 30 min every night, yet my sex drive is non-existant and I know

that my T level now is low.

About restarting HPTA, it did not work for me and I have not heard of

anybody it worked for.

But everybody's different so good luck to you.

>From: skibum911us <no_reply >

>Reply-hypogonadis

> @group with Clomids.com

>Subject: Results of 4 months on Clomid/Seligiline topical

>cream

>Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:21:43 -0000

>

>Hi,

>

>Haven't been a regular member of this group recently, but thought I'd

>add to the growing wealth of knowledge here. I'm 40 in generally good

>health.

>

>Repeated blood work over past few years have come back with

>testosterone (T), both total and free, LH, and FSH near bottom of lab

>normal range. Clomid stimulation test 18 months ago (100 mg/day for 10

>days) was most successful, with total and free T going into the upper

>third of lab range. Clearly secondary. Started topical cream late

>Sept 03. Doc suggested rather low dose---12.5 to 25 mg Clomid and 2

>to 4 mg selegiline each day. For whatever reason, probably because I

>felt OK, I chose the former, I'd say about 15mg Clomid and just over

>2 mg Selegiline each day.

>

>Although a siliva test suggested that T was out of range (high), a

>recent blood test had free T at 10 ng/dL (9-30), and total at 430

>(300-900). Surprising, since I recently had decent erectile function

>(no GF, self-testing only). I rarely awake with wood, but had a few

>moderate slumber lumber through the night on days after weightlifting.

>

>So the questions are:

>

>- Is absorption through skin a problem?

>

>- Is 1 mg of Clomid applied topically as effective a 1 mg orally.

>

>- How risky is oral vs topical, given possible liver toxicity,

>aromitization, etc.

>

>Estradiol was 26 ng/Dl (< 56), and PSA fine/unchanged.

>

>I'm tempted to get another supply of the cream and go with at least

>25, maybe 40-50 mg/day. I also am optimistic that I can jump start

>the HPT axis given several months of Clomid (or HCG) at the right

>dosage. Please hold back the flames if I appear overly cautious.

>

>Cheers,

>Tom

>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

> Tom,

> First of all I am not a MD and can decribe you my own experience with

> Clomid.

> I do not know if cream would be same as pill, but 12mg/day (qurter of a

> pill) raise my T

> from 260 to 1000 in about a week and I've heard from a couple of

guys about

> same results, I think taht 100mg for a week should bring you over

the lab

> range if you really secondary.

The standard Clomid test is 100 mg/day for 7-10 days. I personally

have not heard of many men that go above normal range on this test,

just into the upper third or so.

Mt total went from ~370 to over 900 ng/dL during the stimulation test.

My LH and FSH levels are normally low, not high as with primary

testicular failure. So, are you questioning if I really am secondary

hypo?

> As far as I know the primary function of Selegiline is to increase

dopamine

> level in the brain and not T.

Well, you may be right about the primary function of Selegiline, but

it's use in raising T is on the increase, and some very knowledible

MDs have come on board.

> About liver damage, I've been taking Clomid for 3-4 months

monitoring my

> liver (ALT and AST)

> they have not changed at all, but again I've heard from others that

Clomid

> made their liver test

> go over the limit.

Hence our collective caution.

> I think that erectile function does not always correlate with T

level, T is

> more correlated with libido.

> I get nightly erections which wake me up and

> last for 30 min every night, yet my sex drive is non-existant and I

know

> that my T level now is low.

I am the opposite; libido very high despite low T.

You say (above) that 12mg/day raised your T to 1000 ng/dL, and have

been on Clomid for 4 months. Here you say your T is low. Would you

please straighten out your story?

> About restarting HPTA, it did not work for me and I have not heard of

> anybody it worked for.

> But everybody's different so good luck to you.

>

My low T is a result of moderate-intense exercise, without proper

hydration and nutrition. Overtraining/overreaching is known to impact

(negative) the HPT axis. Maybe it's permanent, but I'm somewhat hopeful.

Tom

>

> >From: skibum911us <no_reply >

> >Reply-hypogonadis

> > @group with Clomids.com

> >Subject: Results of 4 months on Clomid/Seligiline

topical

> >cream

> >Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:21:43 -0000

> >

> >Hi,

> >

> >Haven't been a regular member of this group recently, but thought I'd

> >add to the growing wealth of knowledge here. I'm 40 in generally good

> >health.

> >

> >Repeated blood work over past few years have come back with

> >testosterone (T), both total and free, LH, and FSH near bottom of lab

> >normal range. Clomid stimulation test 18 months ago (100 mg/day for 10

> >days) was most successful, with total and free T going into the upper

> >third of lab range. Clearly secondary. Started topical cream late

> >Sept 03. Doc suggested rather low dose---12.5 to 25 mg Clomid and 2

> >to 4 mg selegiline each day. For whatever reason, probably because I

> >felt OK, I chose the former, I'd say about 15mg Clomid and just over

> >2 mg Selegiline each day.

> >

> >Although a siliva test suggested that T was out of range (high), a

> >recent blood test had free T at 10 ng/dL (9-30), and total at 430

> >(300-900). Surprising, since I recently had decent erectile function

> >(no GF, self-testing only). I rarely awake with wood, but had a few

> >moderate slumber lumber through the night on days after weightlifting.

> >

> >So the questions are:

> >

> >- Is absorption through skin a problem?

> >

> >- Is 1 mg of Clomid applied topically as effective a 1 mg orally.

> >

> >- How risky is oral vs topical, given possible liver toxicity,

> >aromitization, etc.

> >

> >Estradiol was 26 ng/Dl (< 56), and PSA fine/unchanged.

> >

> >I'm tempted to get another supply of the cream and go with at least

> >25, maybe 40-50 mg/day. I also am optimistic that I can jump start

> >the HPT axis given several months of Clomid (or HCG) at the right

> >dosage. Please hold back the flames if I appear overly cautious.

> >

> >Cheers,

> >Tom

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here.

> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

[Guest guest]

Tom,

As I said, I can speak only from my personal experience, so do not take my

opinion too seriously.

To straighten my story, I've stopped Clomid about 3 weeks ago, will do blood

test in a couple of days, but by the way I feel, I know that my T is low.

I've done this twice before,

stopped all meds. in hope that my HTPA restarts. Both times in about 3 weeks

my T dropped from

~ 1000 to ~260, so did LH and FSH.

BTW, I've read that Selegiline is a very safe drug, meaning no liver damage

etc etc.

So why are you using cream and deal with absorbtion problems, rather then

pills or liquid?

>From: skibum911us <no_reply >

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: Results of 4 months on Clomid/Seligiline

>topical cream

>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 15:38:58 -0000

>

>

> > Tom,

> > First of all I am not a MD and can decribe you my own experience with

> > Clomid.

> > I do not know if cream would be same as pill, but 12mg/day (qurter of a

> > pill) raise my T

> > from 260 to 1000 in about a week and I've heard from a couple of

>guys about

> > same results, I think taht 100mg for a week should bring you over

>the lab

> > range if you really secondary.

>

>The standard Clomid test is 100 mg/day for 7-10 days. I personally

>have not heard of many men that go above normal range on this test,

>just into the upper third or so.

>

>Mt total went from ~370 to over 900 ng/dL during the stimulation test.

> My LH and FSH levels are normally low, not high as with primary

>testicular failure. So, are you questioning if I really am secondary

>hypo?

>

> > As far as I know the primary function of Selegiline is to increase

>dopamine

> > level in the brain and not T.

>

>Well, you may be right about the primary function of Selegiline, but

>it's use in raising T is on the increase, and some very knowledible

>MDs have come on board.

>

> > About liver damage, I've been taking Clomid for 3-4 months

>monitoring my

> > liver (ALT and AST)

> > they have not changed at all, but again I've heard from others that

>Clomid

> > made their liver test

> > go over the limit.

>

>Hence our collective caution.

>

> > I think that erectile function does not always correlate with T

>level, T is

> > more correlated with libido.

> > I get nightly erections which wake me up and

> > last for 30 min every night, yet my sex drive is non-existant and I

>know

> > that my T level now is low.

>

>I am the opposite; libido very high despite low T.

>

>You say (above) that 12mg/day raised your T to 1000 ng/dL, and have

>been on Clomid for 4 months. Here you say your T is low. Would you

>please straighten out your story?

>

>

> > About restarting HPTA, it did not work for me and I have not heard of

> > anybody it worked for.

> > But everybody's different so good luck to you.

> >

>

>My low T is a result of moderate-intense exercise, without proper

>hydration and nutrition. Overtraining/overreaching is known to impact

>(negative) the HPT axis. Maybe it's permanent, but I'm somewhat hopeful.

>

>Tom

>

> >

> > >From: skibum911us <no_reply >

> > >Reply-hypogonadis

> > > @group with Clomids.com

> > >Subject: Results of 4 months on Clomid/Seligiline

>topical

> > >cream

> > >Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:21:43 -0000

> > >

> > >Hi,

> > >

> > >Haven't been a regular member of this group recently, but thought I'd

> > >add to the growing wealth of knowledge here. I'm 40 in generally good

> > >health.

> > >

> > >Repeated blood work over past few years have come back with

> > >testosterone (T), both total and free, LH, and FSH near bottom of lab

> > >normal range. Clomid stimulation test 18 months ago (100 mg/day for 10

> > >days) was most successful, with total and free T going into the upper

> > >third of lab range. Clearly secondary. Started topical cream late

> > >Sept 03. Doc suggested rather low dose---12.5 to 25 mg Clomid and 2

> > >to 4 mg selegiline each day. For whatever reason, probably because I

> > >felt OK, I chose the former, I'd say about 15mg Clomid and just over

> > >2 mg Selegiline each day.

> > >

> > >Although a siliva test suggested that T was out of range (high), a

> > >recent blood test had free T at 10 ng/dL (9-30), and total at 430

> > >(300-900). Surprising, since I recently had decent erectile function

> > >(no GF, self-testing only). I rarely awake with wood, but had a few

> > >moderate slumber lumber through the night on days after weightlifting.

> > >

> > >So the questions are:

> > >

> > >- Is absorption through skin a problem?

> > >

> > >- Is 1 mg of Clomid applied topically as effective a 1 mg orally.

> > >

> > >- How risky is oral vs topical, given possible liver toxicity,

> > >aromitization, etc.

> > >

> > >Estradiol was 26 ng/Dl (< 56), and PSA fine/unchanged.

> > >

> > >I'm tempted to get another supply of the cream and go with at least

> > >25, maybe 40-50 mg/day. I also am optimistic that I can jump start

> > >the HPT axis given several months of Clomid (or HCG) at the right

> > >dosage. Please hold back the flames if I appear overly cautious.

> > >

> > >Cheers,

> > >Tom

> > >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here.

> > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

>

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