Opinions about naturopathic docs...

[Guest guest]

I preparation for bad news from my endo doc (he's already said he

doesn't treat estrogen in men and wouldn't know where to start) I

contacted the local compounding pharmacy. I asked the guy who sends

him patients that are in the same situation I'm in. One of the docs

is an naturopathic doc. I spoke with the receptionist and asked what

she does and does she take both testosterone and estrogen into

consideration, She said that they do and the pharmacist confirmed

that.

Does anyone have any experience with ND's. I'm not getting anywhere

with the local D.O's, M.D's and endos... Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Doesn't matter what kind of doc, could be endo, gp, uro, or

natureopath dr. as long as they meet the following criteria:

1) They already treat hypogonadism or are totally open to working

with you and learning how best to treat it.

2) They can prescribe the appropriate drugs.

Time spent trying to convince an unsympathetic doctor to treat you

is wasted time in my opinion.

Armyguy

> I preparation for bad news from my endo doc (he's already said he

> doesn't treat estrogen in men and wouldn't know where to start) I

> contacted the local compounding pharmacy. I asked the guy who

sends

> him patients that are in the same situation I'm in. One of the

docs

> is an naturopathic doc. I spoke with the receptionist and asked

what

> she does and does she take both testosterone and estrogen into

> consideration, She said that they do and the pharmacist confirmed

> that.

>

> Does anyone have any experience with ND's. I'm not getting

anywhere

> with the local D.O's, M.D's and endos... Thanks!

[Guest guest]

I went to Naturopath who was also an MD yesterday, they seem more

willing to listen as opposed to other doctors and he was more

sympathetic towards what I was going thru.

But my understanding of Naturopaths is that they try to use the

body's own system to facilitate healing.

> I preparation for bad news from my endo doc (he's already said he

> doesn't treat estrogen in men and wouldn't know where to start) I

> contacted the local compounding pharmacy. I asked the guy who

sends

> him patients that are in the same situation I'm in. One of the

docs

> is an naturopathic doc. I spoke with the receptionist and asked

what

> she does and does she take both testosterone and estrogen into

> consideration, She said that they do and the pharmacist confirmed

> that.

>

> Does anyone have any experience with ND's. I'm not getting

anywhere

> with the local D.O's, M.D's and endos... Thanks!

[Guest guest]

They can also get into some weird stuff that is something you'd

expect to see from a Witch Doctor! I think the best advice is to take

a balanced approach and be sure of your doctor - whatever the

persuasion!

There are some nutritional/herbal/exercise/biofeedback types of

things that may help, depending on your condition. But if your nuts

are dead, they're dead! Ironically, the Testosterone used in gels and

injections is completely organic - derived from Mexican sweet

potatoes and soybeans...

Regards,

K4

> > I preparation for bad news from my endo doc (he's already said he

> > doesn't treat estrogen in men and wouldn't know where to start) I

> > contacted the local compounding pharmacy. I asked the guy who

> sends

> > him patients that are in the same situation I'm in. One of the

> docs

> > is an naturopathic doc. I spoke with the receptionist and asked

> what

> > she does and does she take both testosterone and estrogen into

> > consideration, She said that they do and the pharmacist

confirmed

> > that.

> >

> > Does anyone have any experience with ND's. I'm not getting

> anywhere

> > with the local D.O's, M.D's and endos... Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Derived from Mexican sweet potatoes??!!!!

As far as I know, 100% of the testosterone that we are getting

through brand name drugs comes from the lab.

> > > I preparation for bad news from my endo doc (he's already said

he

> > > doesn't treat estrogen in men and wouldn't know where to

start) I

> > > contacted the local compounding pharmacy. I asked the guy who

> > sends

> > > him patients that are in the same situation I'm in. One of

the

> > docs

> > > is an naturopathic doc. I spoke with the receptionist and

asked

> > what

> > > she does and does she take both testosterone and estrogen into

> > > consideration, She said that they do and the pharmacist

> confirmed

> > > that.

> > >

> > > Does anyone have any experience with ND's. I'm not getting

> > anywhere

> > > with the local D.O's, M.D's and endos... Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Nope. Testosterone occurs naturally in many plants and is very cheap

to extract.

> > > > I preparation for bad news from my endo doc (he's already

said

> he

> > > > doesn't treat estrogen in men and wouldn't know where to

> start) I

> > > > contacted the local compounding pharmacy. I asked the guy

who

> > > sends

> > > > him patients that are in the same situation I'm in. One of

> the

> > > docs

> > > > is an naturopathic doc. I spoke with the receptionist and

> asked

> > > what

> > > > she does and does she take both testosterone and estrogen

into

> > > > consideration, She said that they do and the pharmacist

> > confirmed

> > > > that.

> > > >

> > > > Does anyone have any experience with ND's. I'm not getting

> > > anywhere

> > > > with the local D.O's, M.D's and endos... Thanks!

[Guest guest]

From what I have read, very little testosterone comes from anything

but the lab for TRT.

> > > > > I preparation for bad news from my endo doc (he's already

> said

> > he

> > > > > doesn't treat estrogen in men and wouldn't know where to

> > start) I

> > > > > contacted the local compounding pharmacy. I asked the guy

> who

> > > > sends

> > > > > him patients that are in the same situation I'm in. One

of

> > the

> > > > docs

> > > > > is an naturopathic doc. I spoke with the receptionist and

> > asked

> > > > what

> > > > > she does and does she take both testosterone and estrogen

> into

> > > > > consideration, She said that they do and the pharmacist

> > > confirmed

> > > > > that.

> > > > >

> > > > > Does anyone have any experience with ND's. I'm not

getting

> > > > anywhere

> > > > > with the local D.O's, M.D's and endos... Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Hi,

It is very tough to find an endocrinologist that has more than 10

years treating andropause. Read up on hormone therapy by reading such

books as " The Testosterone Syndrome " , by Dr. Shippen, $14.95 @

and Noble. You need to have lots of info so you can shorten your time

getting to the good doctor and better health. You must know when you

are getting bad treatment.

Most doctors are new to hormone therapy and get their information from

pharmaceutical reps selling high cost patches, gels and injections.

This is poor medicine. Most will not give enough to care properly for

their patients as they do not want to run any risks.

When the doctor has experience, you can get the right dosages and will

be a satisfied patient.

Cost of alternative health or homopathic products usually is higher

and less effective than going to the experts.

> I preparation for bad news from my endo doc (he's already said he

> doesn't treat estrogen in men and wouldn't know where to start) I

> contacted the local compounding pharmacy. I asked the guy who sends

> him patients that are in the same situation I'm in. One of the docs

> is an naturopathic doc. I spoke with the receptionist and asked what

> she does and does she take both testosterone and estrogen into

> consideration, She said that they do and the pharmacist confirmed

> that.

>

> Does anyone have any experience with ND's. I'm not getting anywhere

> with the local D.O's, M.D's and endos... Thanks!

[Guest guest]

To the original poster's questions about Naturopaths:

We had a mandatory seminar at work where the speaker was an ND. His ideas

on health issues were so bizarre that I left the seminar and did some

research on just what exactly an ND was.

An ND degree has been very questionable in the past, in some cases nothing

more than a mail order diploma. You can buy a degree in anything over the

internet, and the ND " schools " that seem to be " accredited " that I found

seemed to fall right in with that category.

The only " doctor " I can find tagging ND after his name in my local area is a

chiropractor, who also is doctor of Oriental Medicine (not sure what they're

allowed to do in California, acupuncture, maybe?) and also claims to be a

Physician's Assistant. His practice seems to be centered around giving

colonics and colloidal vitamins. I found his name looking for someone who

prescribes Armour Thyroid, so his PA license does give him pharmaceutical

rights, though perhaps not for schedule 3 controlled substances

(testosterone).

Are all ND's quacks? Probably not, but I would certainly check any of them

out very closely before trusting my health to one. Now, an MD, or

equivalent who practices naturopathic principles as well as allopathic might

be worth seeing...

The naturopaths preach that you treat the whole body system and let it heal

itself of disease, rather than treating the disease.

_____

From: ernestnolan [mailto:emiles@...]

Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 7:06 AM

Subject: Re: Opinions about naturopathic docs...

Hi,

It is very tough to find an endocrinologist that has more than 10

years treating andropause. Read up on hormone therapy by reading such

books as " The Testosterone Syndrome " , by Dr. Shippen, $14.95 @

and Noble. You need to have lots of info so you can shorten your time

getting to the good doctor and better health. You must know when you

are getting bad treatment.

Most doctors are new to hormone therapy and get their information from

pharmaceutical reps selling high cost patches, gels and injections.

This is poor medicine. Most will not give enough to care properly for

their patients as they do not want to run any risks.

When the doctor has experience, you can get the right dosages and will

be a satisfied patient.

Cost of alternative health or homopathic products usually is higher

and less effective than going to the experts.

> I preparation for bad news from my endo doc (he's already said he

> doesn't treat estrogen in men and wouldn't know where to start) I

> contacted the local compounding pharmacy. I asked the guy who sends

> him patients that are in the same situation I'm in. One of the docs

> is an naturopathic doc. I spoke with the receptionist and asked what

> she does and does she take both testosterone and estrogen into

> consideration, She said that they do and the pharmacist confirmed

> that.

>

> Does anyone have any experience with ND's. I'm not getting anywhere

> with the local D.O's, M.D's and endos... Thanks!

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 01 May 2004 04:21:58 -0000, you wrote:

>

>Nope. Testosterone occurs naturally in many plants and is very cheap

>to extract.

You sure they're not converting estrogen like compounds known to be in

these plants?

[Guest guest]

There is some current content on this subject on Medscape.

See the MedGenMed ejournal section.

Brad

> > I preparation for bad news from my endo doc (he's already said he

> > doesn't treat estrogen in men and wouldn't know where to start) I

> > contacted the local compounding pharmacy. I asked the guy who sends

> > him patients that are in the same situation I'm in. One of the docs

> > is an naturopathic doc. I spoke with the receptionist and asked what

> > she does and does she take both testosterone and estrogen into

> > consideration, She said that they do and the pharmacist confirmed

> > that.

> >

> > Does anyone have any experience with ND's. I'm not getting anywhere

> > with the local D.O's, M.D's and endos... Thanks!

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I actually did some research on this a while back, and my findings

were different. Also had some corroboration from other group members.

If you're interested you could probably find the posts but they would

be WAY back somewhere in the 13,000 or so posts we've got!

Regards,

K4

> > > > > > I preparation for bad news from my endo doc (he's already

> > said

> > > he

> > > > > > doesn't treat estrogen in men and wouldn't know where to

> > > start) I

> > > > > > contacted the local compounding pharmacy. I asked the

guy

> > who

> > > > > sends

> > > > > > him patients that are in the same situation I'm in. One

> of

> > > the

> > > > > docs

> > > > > > is an naturopathic doc. I spoke with the receptionist

and

> > > asked

> > > > > what

> > > > > > she does and does she take both testosterone and estrogen

> > into

> > > > > > consideration, She said that they do and the pharmacist

> > > > confirmed

> > > > > > that.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Does anyone have any experience with ND's. I'm not

> getting

> > > > > anywhere

> > > > > > with the local D.O's, M.D's and endos... Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Possibly not. There has been more than one purge of old messages.

Brad

> > > > > > > I preparation for bad news from my endo doc (he's already

> > > said

> > > > he

> > > > > > > doesn't treat estrogen in men and wouldn't know where to

> > > > start) I

> > > > > > > contacted the local compounding pharmacy. I asked the

> guy

> > > who

> > > > > > sends

> > > > > > > him patients that are in the same situation I'm in. One

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > docs

> > > > > > > is an naturopathic doc. I spoke with the receptionist

> and

> > > > asked

> > > > > > what

> > > > > > > she does and does she take both testosterone and estrogen

> > > into

> > > > > > > consideration, She said that they do and the pharmacist

> > > > > confirmed

> > > > > > > that.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Does anyone have any experience with ND's. I'm not

> > getting

> > > > > > anywhere

> > > > > > > with the local D.O's, M.D's and endos... Thanks!

[Guest guest]

OK, I guess I need to get more accurate on this subject. A quick

search on " testosterone from soybeans " yielded the following

(among many articles)

home.earthlink.net/~gordonmd/altmed/QuestT.htm

Testosterone USP is a white odorless powder which dissolves in

alcohol or organic solvents. It can penetrate intact skin if applied

without a carrier agent but only a small amount is absorbed. T has

been available since the 1940's. Bioidentical testosterone can be

made in the laboratory from saponins found in soybeans and yams.

TestoCreme, AndroGel and Androderm/Testoderm patches are made with

micronized USP-T, which has been finely ground to disperse evenly .

http://www.collegepharmacy.com/articles/faq-andropause.asp

What are biologically identical hormones?

Biologically identical testosterone is derived from soybeans. It has

the same molecular structure and produces the same effects as the

free form of testosterone produced by the testes.

Hope this helps,

K4

>

> >

> >Nope. Testosterone occurs naturally in many plants and is very

cheap

> >to extract.

>

> You sure they're not converting estrogen like compounds known to be

in

> these plants?

[Guest guest]

True enough Brad. Unfortunately. :-(

> > > > > > > > I preparation for bad news from my endo doc (he's

already

> > > > said

> > > > > he

> > > > > > > > doesn't treat estrogen in men and wouldn't know where

to

> > > > > start) I

> > > > > > > > contacted the local compounding pharmacy. I asked

the

> > guy

> > > > who

> > > > > > > sends

> > > > > > > > him patients that are in the same situation I'm in.

One

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > docs

> > > > > > > > is an naturopathic doc. I spoke with the

receptionist

> > and

> > > > > asked

> > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > she does and does she take both testosterone and

estrogen

> > > > into

> > > > > > > > consideration, She said that they do and the

pharmacist

> > > > > > confirmed

> > > > > > > > that.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Does anyone have any experience with ND's. I'm not

> > > getting

> > > > > > > anywhere

> > > > > > > > with the local D.O's, M.D's and endos... Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Hi-

Naturopathic docs may or may not be helpful, I don't have any

experience with them.

If they are, you'd probably have to go through the long process of

finding one who's competent and helpful. Like finding a good

GP, urologist, endo, car mechanic, dentist, plumber...

Peace,

Bruce

> I preparation for bad news from my endo doc (he's already

said he

> doesn't treat estrogen in men and wouldn't know where to

start) I

> contacted the local compounding pharmacy. I asked the guy

who sends

> him patients that are in the same situation I'm in. One of the

docs

> is an naturopathic doc. I spoke with the receptionist and asked

what

> she does and does she take both testosterone and estrogen

into

> consideration, She said that they do and the pharmacist

confirmed

> that.

>

> Does anyone have any experience with ND's. I'm not getting

anywhere

> with the local D.O's, M.D's and endos... Thanks!