HCG

[Guest guest]

> All info I have indicates that HCG must be given intra-muslcularly

> ONLY. Either upper thigh or buttocks is the indicated sites. I

> believe also the best time to administer is before bed but not 100%

> sure on this if it matters. I used the 25 gauge the other day,

> tonight I'll try the 29. My nurse said the 29 wasn't long enough

but

> Dr. Schippen said was ok(in his book). Comments?

I have been on HCG therapy for over 2 years with excellent

results...I have followed SHippen's protocal and it works!! I use the

diabetic needle (small) in my thigh before bedtime (3 times a week/.5

cc)...don't listen to others on this subject...Shippen is the

expert....

[Guest guest]

Subcutaneous injections of hCG are entirely safe and proven to be just as

effective as IM. The reason it is never spoken of here in the US is because for

some unknown reason, the Europeans are definitely ahead of us in hormone

therapy. These studies were gone in Germany and the U.K. I understand that the

literature that comes with the hCG in America states otherwise, but this is only

because these brands have not conducted their own versions of these studies.

The reason to inject before bed is because this more closely mimics the way the

body naturally produces testosterone: Even though the signal to produce

testosterone has been sent, the testes wait until night time to turn themselves

on and begin producing the majority of the testosterone. There are other studies

that have shown that people on hCG therapy begin to follow that same normal

pattern although it is still yet to be explained how.

The value of 29 does not equate to the length of the needle, it is the

thickness/gauge. If you look at your syringe package, you'll probably see it say

something like 29 ½. This ½ is one half of an inch, which is the length.

Although thinner needles are rarely longer than ½ inch, there are other gauges

out there that have multiple lengths available. So the 3 important things you

need to remember about syringes are:

Gauge: How large the opening in the needle is. High number = smaller opening =

water-based medicines / Smaller number = larger opening = oil-based medicines

Length: How long the needle is. Normally ½ inch or smaller is appropriate for

hCG subcutaneous injections. 1 inch long or longer for intramuscular.

Capacity: How many CC's the syringe can hold. Usually better to have a larger

capacity than needed. This makes it easier to depress the plunger.

I have attached the abstracts that show the subcutaneous studies. Share these

with your doctor if you are planning hCG treatment. Believe me, it's much easier

this way.

Connery

Email: jonathan@... <mailto:jonathan@...>

Web: http://www.jonathanconnery.com <http://www.jonathanconnery.com/>

" We must always strive to do the things we think we cannot do. " -Eleanor

Roosevelt

HCG

All info I have indicates that HCG must be given intra-muslcularly

ONLY. Either upper thigh or buttocks is the indicated sites. I

believe also the best time to administer is before bed but not 100%

sure on this if it matters. I used the 25 gauge the other day,

tonight I'll try the 29. My nurse said the 29 wasn't long enough but

Dr. Schippen said was ok(in his book). Comments?

[Guest guest]

> All info I have indicates that HCG must be given intra-muslcularly

> ONLY. Either upper thigh or buttocks is the indicated sites. I

> believe also the best time to administer is before bed but not 100%

> sure on this if it matters. I used the 25 gauge the other day,

> tonight I'll try the 29. My nurse said the 29 wasn't long enough but

> Dr. Schippen said was ok(in his book). Comments?

Shippen and my doctor both indicate that subcutaneous is just fine for HCG,

using an insulin (29-30 guage, 1/2').

[Guest guest]

Tom,

The T-gel I have, which is compounded, is 150mg of Testosterone per

gram. I beleive (am not sure) that AndroGel is mixed at 10mg per

gram so it takes 10 grams to apply 100 mgs. In my case, 1 gram

gives me 150 mgs, but the obsorbsion may-or-may-not be as effective.

Clomid and Novadex are different animals, but at the same time they

are similar. Both will attach to receptors on the hypothalimus and

prevent the negative feed back loop from occuring. This allows your

hypothalimus to continuously instruct the pituitary to produce LH

and FSH. Now, Clomid is by far the more powerful in doing this.

Novadex, while it will act in a similar fashion, is not as effective

for this purpose. From an anti-E standpoint, that is more where

Nova excells. It belongs to a class of drugs called estrogen

antagonists (different from aromatase inhibitors such as arimedex or

femera). Novadex does not prevent the creation of T, it just

competes, very well, with the estrogen receptors (such as in the

breast and abdomen). It is for this reason that many steriod users

will use Novadex durring their cycle.

I have no clue as to the side effects of Nova, but clomid can have

some effect on your liver in individules predisposed to liver issues

(per the information sheet that comes with my prescription). In

high dosages (200-300 mg a day) clomid can cause blurred vision.

I am not sure that there is a reason to cycle either Novadex or

Clomid.

y

> Does anyone know of an online article explaining the use of hcG,

> something I can show to my doctor?

>

> Is the maximum amount of topically applied T gel 100mg? I never

see

> anything higher mentioned.

>

> How are clomid and nolvadex different? Which is better? Which has

the

> least side effects? What's the cycle time and why must they be

cycled?

>

> Thanks

>

> tom

[Guest guest]

>

>I called CVS Pharmacy yesterday to get the names of doctors that have

>prescribed the injections. The pharmacist told me that he has never

>filled a prescription for hCH .I thought this was odd becuase it is

>a very large and busy pharmacy. He did tell me if i could give him

>specific brand names he would check with other pharmacies in the area

>to see if they are aware of doctors that have prescribed it.

Make sure that he understands that you are talking HCG - not HCH. Two brand

names are Profasi and Noveral or Novarel. Go the pharmacy at Walmart.

Their prices are cheaper and they have hcg. HCG is prescribed day in and

day out for fertility so there is no reason an active pharmacy would not be

familiar with it - maybe not for hypogonadism.

>I saw the endocrinolist Tuesday and he first of all was not willing

>to prescribe but after I insisted and was ready to walk out he agreed

>to check with so called specialist in the area of treating

>hypogonadisim with hCG and that it was a legitimate treatment he

>would be willing to prescribe.

Even the packaging inserts for HCG refer to its usage for hypo.

>However, the problem comes in that Columbus is 100 miles away and the

>doctor there would treat me as a new patient and I would be expected

>to come to him twice a week for the injections for an indefinte

>period of time. I am employed full time and do not see anyway that I

>could go to Columbus twice a week for the injections. Besides this I

>am the primary caregiver of my soon to be 91 year old mother.

There is no problem here. You need to get the prescription and have it

filled and meet with a nurse at the doctors office or closer and spend

twenty minutes learning how to inject yourself. This is just a little

subcutaneous injection and it is no big deal. There is a short learning

curve and going to the doctors office is not medically necessary and just

cost more in time and money.

>I faxed my endocrinologist yesterday afternoon regarding the amount

>and let him know that since it had been shown to be a legitimate

>treatment that I expected him to research with the professions he had

>spoken of and come up with the dose they felt to be prescribed. I

>felt by doing this that if i can just get started is the main problem

>at this point. The dosage can always be adjusted later.

Eugene Shippen is the expert in the field. The test dosage is 500 units per

day for five days per week for three weeks and then have a blood test to see

if you are responsive. If you are it is likely that you will end out using

something less than 500 units about three times a week but the tests are

your guide.

Make sure you get your estrogen levels tested along with your T everytime

you have a test.

Winter

_________________________________________________________________

Find and compare great deals on Broadband access at the MSN High-Speed

Marketplace. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/

[Guest guest]

Good response from down east.

Only things I would like to add:

The endo may think you need to inject the HCG intra muscular. You do

not. HCG should be inject sub q using insulin needles and it is

EXTREMELY easy to do. You definitely do not need to go to a doctor

to inject it for you. Down east is correct, in Shippen's book he

talks about using 350 - 500 units three times a week. I know he is

now treating some patients with up to 1000 units three times a week.

I personally can tell you, 1000 units and you will have very

positive results! Any higher and you risk shutting down your

testicles for good by causing you Leydig cells to become incensitive

to LH.

Armyguy

>

>

> >

> >I called CVS Pharmacy yesterday to get the names of doctors that

have

> >prescribed the injections. The pharmacist told me that he has

never

> >filled a prescription for hCH .I thought this was odd becuase it

is

> >a very large and busy pharmacy. He did tell me if i could give

him

> >specific brand names he would check with other pharmacies in the

area

> >to see if they are aware of doctors that have prescribed it.

>

> Make sure that he understands that you are talking HCG - not HCH.

Two brand

> names are Profasi and Noveral or Novarel. Go the pharmacy at

Walmart.

> Their prices are cheaper and they have hcg. HCG is prescribed day

in and

> day out for fertility so there is no reason an active pharmacy

would not be

> familiar with it - maybe not for hypogonadism.

>

>

> >I saw the endocrinolist Tuesday and he first of all was not

willing

> >to prescribe but after I insisted and was ready to walk out he

agreed

> >to check with so called specialist in the area of treating

> >hypogonadisim with hCG and that it was a legitimate treatment he

> >would be willing to prescribe.

>

> Even the packaging inserts for HCG refer to its usage for hypo.

>

>

> >However, the problem comes in that Columbus is 100 miles away and

the

> >doctor there would treat me as a new patient and I would be

expected

> >to come to him twice a week for the injections for an indefinte

> >period of time. I am employed full time and do not see anyway

that I

> >could go to Columbus twice a week for the injections. Besides

this I

> >am the primary caregiver of my soon to be 91 year old mother.

>

> There is no problem here. You need to get the prescription and

have it

> filled and meet with a nurse at the doctors office or closer and

spend

> twenty minutes learning how to inject yourself. This is just a

little

> subcutaneous injection and it is no big deal. There is a short

learning

> curve and going to the doctors office is not medically necessary

and just

> cost more in time and money.

>

> >I faxed my endocrinologist yesterday afternoon regarding the

amount

> >and let him know that since it had been shown to be a legitimate

> >treatment that I expected him to research with the professions he

had

> >spoken of and come up with the dose they felt to be prescribed. I

> >felt by doing this that if i can just get started is the main

problem

> >at this point. The dosage can always be adjusted later.

>

> Eugene Shippen is the expert in the field. The test dosage is 500

units per

> day for five days per week for three weeks and then have a blood

test to see

> if you are responsive. If you are it is likely that you will end

out using

> something less than 500 units about three times a week but the

tests are

> your guide.

>

> Make sure you get your estrogen levels tested along with your T

everytime

> you have a test.

>

> Winter

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Find and compare great deals on Broadband access at the MSN High-

Speed

> Marketplace.

http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/

[Guest guest]

> Did anyone " feel " anything in the testes while taking this. I

have a

> strange tingling like sensation in my testes since I started HCG,

> kind of like something may be working down there

-----------------------------

What program are you on? How many " units " how many times a week?

Is is Pregnyl? That is what I am on for seven injections now, 1000

units, 1/2 cc, MWF. I am more " aware " in my scrotum, more heat, and

I can tell a bit more ejaculate. Is that what you are experiencing?

nort

[Guest guest]

> My Dr is doing a test on me, it's generic HCG and he gave me 2 shots,

> one Wed and the other today, 1/2 the bottle each shot. It's just a

> test and if i get my T levels up we are going to use a pump like

> device that hits my body with more natural stimulation for LH and the

> testes. I don't really know much about it, i think it may be called

> GNRH. Did you have your T levels tested while on HCG ? If so how did

> they come back ? I'm hoping this extra feeling means the " boys " are

> getting back to work. My situation is different than most as the

> only sypmthom of low T I have is Gynecomastia.

>

Are you really going to accept a gnrh pump when hcg is available?

Won't you have to wear the pump more or less continuously like an

insulin pump?

Will the insurance co pay for this treatment?

Brad

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:34:53 -0000, you wrote:

>

>I just received my T results after finally bringing my Prolactin

>down. It was 163. Androgel didn't work well for me. I asked my Endo

>about HCG. He said that that would probably be a better bet then

>going to injections. I would like to get your thoughts. I live in

>RI and he said that I will have to go to Boston since it is

>specialized. I was under the impression that HCG was more readily

>available. No? Also, what would be preferrable, go with HCG or work

>towards pellets? As an aside, I knew to ask about HCG because of

>this website. My endo didn't think of it and was saying that not

>much could be done for me. Thanks.

Perhaps you should see if there is a fertility practice near by. They

seem to be much more familiar with hCG.

[Guest guest]

If you try to go to some sort of fertility clinic, you probably want

to tell the receptionist that you are trying to have a baby. When I

called and told them I wasn't trying to have a baby right now but that

I wanted to be able to have one, they didn't want to see me. But I

found a urologist that does a lot of male infertility stuff that knows

my situation and wants to see me. If you go that route call them up

and ask them if they treat hormone related fertility problems. I

think some of them mainly deal with structural, but this guy

supposedly does both. My first appointment is Monday so I'll let you

know how that goes.

Mark

>

>

> Perhaps you should see if there is a fertility practice near by. They

> seem to be much more familiar with hCG.

[Guest guest]

When I was taking HCG 1000iu through an IM injection I could really feel it

work. But it also bloated me out. When I went to 500iu I didn't feel as good

and still felt bloated.

Dr. says to never take more than 500iu at a time and to take 500iu a day

instead of 1000iu every other day. 500iu per day, based on my experience,

seems like a good comprise. Get an E2 check after about 10 days on that stuff

though.

In a message dated 8/13/2004 2:23:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

ballen3_2000@... writes:

I did the hcG test injection this morning. 5000 IUs IM. After about

an hour I had a very stuffed up nose, felt light headed, and a

little blury eyed. Does that mean it is working and getting my

testosterone level through the roof, was expecting a spike 2 hours

after the shot and a second one 48 hours later.

I go for another blood draw on Monday. 72 hours after the shot. do

the 2nd shot Monday evening (1000 IUs SubQ. Then I go back to the

doc on Thursday to compare Wed and Mon Total T and Free T.

I am supposed to stay on 2 pkgs of androgel until then. Been doing

that since July 14th.

Thursday we will discuss if 1000 IUs 2x a week (Monday evening,

Friday Morning) is what I want to stay on for 5 weeks or if a

smaller dose 3x a week would work better. The goal is to reverse

testicular atrophy.

Assuming that things work out and my testicles get back to normal

size or larger , the next step is to try clomid.

My question is will clomid get your lh/fsh numbers up even if you

stay on androgel. Have heard both answers from different anti-aging

clinics.

Bob

[Guest guest]

We followed the guidelines for an hcG test as described in the 2002

document. Did the shot on Friday and had follow up blood drawn this

morning. Even without the test results, this stuff works wonders at

getting things back to size.

Here is my question. Even though hcG is cheap, 15,000 IU for $48.00

plus shipping. I am not a wastefull person. I opened my 2nd ampule

today, it comes with a 1ml solution. so 5000/1ml = 500/.1 ml. one

would think that I should beable fill 9 or 10 syringes. I was only

able to load 5 and a 1/2. When I gave myself my 500 IU shot this

morning, I looked at the syringe pulled back and it still held

nearly 3/4 a dose.

I see 3 options. A: get additional solution from walgreens so that

I would use more volume to get the same dose. B: load all into one

syringe then only dose .1 ml 3x a week. C: return the excess to the

amp and use it when there is enough.

Any other suggestions.

Bob

> > > > I did the hcG test injection this morning. 5000 IUs IM.

After

> > > about

> > > > an hour I had a very stuffed up nose, felt light headed, and

a

> > > > little blury eyed. Does that mean it is working and getting

my

> > > > testosterone level through the roof, was expecting a spike 2

> >hours

> > > > after the shot and a second one 48 hours later.

> > > >

> > > > I go for another blood draw on Monday. 72 hours after the

shot.

> >do

> > > > the 2nd shot Monday evening (1000 IUs SubQ. Then I go back

to

> >the

> > > > doc on Thursday to compare Wed and Mon Total T and Free T.

> > > > I am supposed to stay on 2 pkgs of androgel until then. Been

> > > doing

> > > > that since July 14th.

> > > >

> > > > Thursday we will discuss if 1000 IUs 2x a week (Monday

evening,

> > > > Friday Morning) is what I want to stay on for 5 weeks or if a

> > > > smaller dose 3x a week would work better. The goal is to

> >reverse

> > > > testicular atrophy.

> > > >

> > > > Assuming that things work out and my testicles get back to

> >normal

> > > > size or larger , the next step is to try clomid.

> > > >

> > > > My question is will clomid get your lh/fsh numbers up even if

> >you

> > > > stay on androgel. Have heard both answers from different

anti-

> > > aging

> > > > clinics.

> > > >

> > > > Bob

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>

> We followed the guidelines for an hcG test as described in the

2002

> document. Did the shot on Friday and had follow up blood drawn

this

> morning. Even without the test results, this stuff works wonders

at

> getting things back to size.

>

> Here is my question. Even though hcG is cheap, 15,000 IU for

$48.00

> plus shipping. I am not a wastefull person. I opened my 2nd

ampule

> today, it comes with a 1ml solution. so 5000/1ml = 500/.1 ml. one

> would think that I should beable fill 9 or 10 syringes. I was

only

> able to load 5 and a 1/2. When I gave myself my 500 IU shot this

> morning, I looked at the syringe pulled back and it still held

> nearly 3/4 a dose.

>

> I see 3 options. A: get additional solution from walgreens so

that

> I would use more volume to get the same dose. B: load all into one

> syringe then only dose .1 ml 3x a week. C: return the excess to

the

> amp and use it when there is enough.

>

> Any other suggestions.

>

> Bob

---------------------------------

Bob, when I tried HCG, after first depressing the plunger to the

bottom I would then unscrew the syringe from the needle leaving the

needle stuck in me and then pull back on the syringe to leave about

1/8 of a cc of air and screw it back on and then squirt the rest of

the HCG left in the needle in my leg. This made sure I got it all

and it does not hurt at all, just leave the syringe loosely on the

needle so you can unscrew it easily while still in your leg.

norton

[Guest guest]

Man where do i start, i've had so many blood tests drawn i'm not sure

what it really is anymore. To summarize i've had numerous blood tests

done and all T levels have come back around low 300's with range 260-

1000 ng/dl. My free T is always around 70s with range 50-210 pg/ml.

Every E2 test i've taken so far has been <32 with normal range <52.

Out of the 6-7 blood tests i've taken theres only one time where my T

was high...644 with ref range 247-827 ng/dl taken in the afternoon.

This i believe was not my true level cause this was when i just

stopped fin and saw palmetto, i know for a fact that increased my T

levels...it is also where all my problems began. Ever since then my T

levels has never even come close to that high even in the mornings.

Its really hard to describe prostate pain...can u tell me how u r

feeling pain in the prostate?

> > > > Has anyone here experienced testicle pain on HCG or T

> treatment?

[Guest guest]

Your T is too low and will cause you plenty of problems for a long

time to come.

If you decide to fix your hormones, the ideal replacement is HCG in

addition to testosteorne replacement.

Armyguy

> > > > > Has anyone here experienced testicle pain on HCG or T

> > treatment?

[Guest guest]

> Is HCG only used for guys who are younger and would like children?

I did search for HCG and it appeared from what I read that it was used

for this purpose. I'm not interested in sperm count which is why the

question.

>

> As always thank you to all who respond and add to the valuable

information pass on in the Q & A at this site.

>

> Raven

>

>

No, it is okay for secondary hypo. Back in Ye Olden Hormone Days, hcg

was in shorter supply and was relatively expensive. Thus there was a

perceived need to " reserve " the treatment for those seeking fertility.

Neither is true anymore but the attitude persists. Hcg certainly

isn't the most expensive treatment option anymore.

I suspect that docs simply don't want to try what they are unfamiliar

with. The rest is all just excuses.

Brad

[Guest guest]

I've been on 1/4 tab/eod for about 4 months and feel very decent.

I think many Clomid users aim too high and use too big of a dose.

I also noticed that my T level keeps going higher and higher on the

same dose.

> > > > I tried Clomid and didn't like it. Felt like I was on a drug.

> > > >

> > > > Also, Clomid works by blocking E2 (not by reducing it).

> Clomid

> > blocks

> > > > some aspects of E2 but not others. Doesn't sound very good

> long

> > term to

> > > > me. E2 is vital to your health. You need E2 as much as you

> need

> > T.

> > > > The key is balance.

> > > >

> > > > IMHO, Clomid is good as a diagnostic tool but that's about it.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Thanks ,

> > >

> > > I think others have posted that they didn't particularly like

> Clomid

> > > even when it works in the total t sense. I am never sure why

> people

> > > are so eager to use clomid over hcg. Perhaps it is just oral vs

> > > injectible.

> > >

> > > Brad

[Guest guest]

I am not that scientific in my approach.

I just keep track of what and when I begin to take and how I feel.

About Clomid and raising T, after I started Clomid, I had 3 b/T done

in about 4 weeks

Increments. Each showed my T going higher. But you are right,

somewhere in between I started Selegiline.

I take all my meds at the same time in the morning. Is there any

difference when to take them? And should I take them separately?

As far as increasing libido with higher T levels, it does not seem to

work for me.

My sex drive (and ED) is about the same unsatisfactory, whether my T

level is ~600 or ~1000. And only Proviron noticeably improves libido

( not ED), but with undesirable sideeffects. I think I willl stop

Provire and give Selegiline another chance.

> > I am taking Selegiline, becose I've read that

> > it can improve libido

>

> Yes, that's true. But that could be from upregulating the h/p axis

or

> it could be from increasing the effectiveness of dopamine.

>

> > As to T level, I found that I am very responsive to

> > Clomid and overtime my T level goes higher and

> > higher on the same dose.

>

> OK, but how scientific have you been here? In other words, have you

> tried a blood test after 3 to 4 weeks on Selegiline and then a blood

> test after 3 to 4 weeks off Selegiline to measure the difference in

your

> T level with and without Selegiline? Also, what time of day do you

take

> Selegiline?

>

> > I also take 25 mg of Proviron, which after about 2 weeks

> > makes me horny as hell, but makes me feel kind of fatigue,

> > so I hoped that Selegiline could replace Proviron.

>

> I thought you're already taking Selegiline?

>

> I any event, every time you have a major change in your protocol you

> need to recalibrate your dosages to find the new equilibrium

amounts of

> each drug/hormone/supplement that works for you.

>

> > Question: is Selegiline helpful in some way oher then raising T

level.

>

> I believe so. And so does Dr. Shippen. But there's probably

others who

> differ.

>

> Do some research and let us know what you find. Also, see my primer

> article (4 of 8) on Selegiline in the files section of this group.

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

Selegiline should be taken at bedtime because the body make most T

during sleep. In other words, the h/p axis secretes pulses of LH during

your sleep cycles. That's why your T level is highest in the morning.

Re: HCG

> I am not that scientific in my approach.

> I just keep track of what and when I begin to take and how I feel.

> About Clomid and raising T, after I started Clomid, I had 3 b/T done

> in about 4 weeks

> Increments. Each showed my T going higher. But you are right,

> somewhere in between I started Selegiline.

> I take all my meds at the same time in the morning. Is there any

> difference when to take them? And should I take them separately?

> As far as increasing libido with higher T levels, it does not seem to

> work for me.

> My sex drive (and ED) is about the same unsatisfactory, whether my T

> level is ~600 or ~1000. And only Proviron noticeably improves libido

> ( not ED), but with undesirable sideeffects. I think I willl stop

> Provire and give Selegiline another chance.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > > I am taking Selegiline, becose I've read that

> > > it can improve libido

> >

> > Yes, that's true. But that could be from upregulating the h/p axis

> or

> > it could be from increasing the effectiveness of dopamine.

> >

> > > As to T level, I found that I am very responsive to

> > > Clomid and overtime my T level goes higher and

> > > higher on the same dose.

> >

> > OK, but how scientific have you been here? In other words, have you

> > tried a blood test after 3 to 4 weeks on Selegiline and then a blood

> > test after 3 to 4 weeks off Selegiline to measure the difference in

> your

> > T level with and without Selegiline? Also, what time of day do you

> take

> > Selegiline?

> >

> > > I also take 25 mg of Proviron, which after about 2 weeks

> > > makes me horny as hell, but makes me feel kind of fatigue,

> > > so I hoped that Selegiline could replace Proviron.

> >

> > I thought you're already taking Selegiline?

> >

> > I any event, every time you have a major change in your protocol you

> > need to recalibrate your dosages to find the new equilibrium

> amounts of

> > each drug/hormone/supplement that works for you.

> >

> > > Question: is Selegiline helpful in some way oher then raising T

> level.

> >

> > I believe so. And so does Dr. Shippen. But there's probably

> others who

> > differ.

> >

> > Do some research and let us know what you find. Also, see my primer

> > article (4 of 8) on Selegiline in the files section of this group.

> >

> > -

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Then Clomid should be taken at bedtime also?

> > > > I am taking Selegiline, becose I've read that

> > > > it can improve libido

> > >

> > > Yes, that's true. But that could be from upregulating the h/p

axis

> > or

> > > it could be from increasing the effectiveness of dopamine.

> > >

> > > > As to T level, I found that I am very responsive to

> > > > Clomid and overtime my T level goes higher and

> > > > higher on the same dose.

> > >

> > > OK, but how scientific have you been here? In other words,

have you

> > > tried a blood test after 3 to 4 weeks on Selegiline and then a

blood

> > > test after 3 to 4 weeks off Selegiline to measure the

difference in

> > your

> > > T level with and without Selegiline? Also, what time of day do

you

> > take

> > > Selegiline?

> > >

> > > > I also take 25 mg of Proviron, which after about 2 weeks

> > > > makes me horny as hell, but makes me feel kind of fatigue,

> > > > so I hoped that Selegiline could replace Proviron.

> > >

> > > I thought you're already taking Selegiline?

> > >

> > > I any event, every time you have a major change in your

protocol you

> > > need to recalibrate your dosages to find the new equilibrium

> > amounts of

> > > each drug/hormone/supplement that works for you.

> > >

> > > > Question: is Selegiline helpful in some way oher then raising

T

> > level.

> > >

> > > I believe so. And so does Dr. Shippen. But there's probably

> > others who

> > > differ.

> > >

> > > Do some research and let us know what you find. Also, see my

primer

> > > article (4 of 8) on Selegiline in the files section of this

group.

> > >

> > > -

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

My latest research and a couple notes from here suggest that doing

hcG before bed is good for the same reason. it mimics what your

brain would do under 'normal' conditions.

this is what I am gonna try 500 IUs at bedtime 2 days in a row with

2 days off. Research, and my personal experience with the high

dose, shows that you get a hit of T after about 2 hour and another

one after 48 hours. If I am thinking correctly then day 1, get the

first boost from shot 1, day 2 get the first boost from shot 2, day

3 get the second boost from shot 1 and day 4 get the second boost

from shot 2. repeat. You end up with 3 to 4 shots in a 7 day

period. 7 shots in a 14 day period.

Does this sound reasonable?

I tried mon, wed, fri and it was ups and downs all week.

Bob

> > > > > I am taking Selegiline, becose I've read that

> > > > > it can improve libido

> > > >

> > > > Yes, that's true. But that could be from upregulating the

h/p

> axis

> > > or

> > > > it could be from increasing the effectiveness of dopamine.

> > > >

> > > > > As to T level, I found that I am very responsive to

> > > > > Clomid and overtime my T level goes higher and

> > > > > higher on the same dose.

> > > >

> > > > OK, but how scientific have you been here? In other words,

> have you

> > > > tried a blood test after 3 to 4 weeks on Selegiline and then

a

> blood

> > > > test after 3 to 4 weeks off Selegiline to measure the

> difference in

> > > your

> > > > T level with and without Selegiline? Also, what time of day

do

> you

> > > take

> > > > Selegiline?

> > > >

> > > > > I also take 25 mg of Proviron, which after about 2 weeks

> > > > > makes me horny as hell, but makes me feel kind of fatigue,

> > > > > so I hoped that Selegiline could replace Proviron.

> > > >

> > > > I thought you're already taking Selegiline?

> > > >

> > > > I any event, every time you have a major change in your

> protocol you

> > > > need to recalibrate your dosages to find the new equilibrium

> > > amounts of

> > > > each drug/hormone/supplement that works for you.

> > > >

> > > > > Question: is Selegiline helpful in some way oher then

raising

> T

> > > level.

> > > >

> > > > I believe so. And so does Dr. Shippen. But there's probably

> > > others who

> > > > differ.

> > > >

> > > > Do some research and let us know what you find. Also, see

my

> primer

> > > > article (4 of 8) on Selegiline in the files section of this

> group.

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

> But this new FRIO Insulin Cool Wallet sounds too good to be true. Not

> only does it stay cold 4 times longer (45 vs. 12 hours), but it's

tiny,

> too! Also, if you want to use it again, you don't need a

refrigerator.

> You just put it in cold water for 15 minutes and it's good for another

> 45 hours!

Well, I got a FRIO Insulin Cool Wallet and found it totally

unsatisfactory for travel with HCG. I started it up and put a

thermometer in it. After a few hours the temperature read 64 degrees.

I put it back and opened it in the morning and it was 64 degrees again.

IIRC, HCG needs something like 36 to 45 degrees.

[Guest guest]

I spoke with my doctor about HCG and he advised me that it is a foreign

protien and that I would develop an allergic reaction to it six months

down the road. Has anyone ever experienced a reaction of this sort to

HCG?

[Guest guest]

HCG is not a foreign protein.

Winter

>From: " dcdude58 " <dcdude58@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: HCG

>Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 05:51:03 -0000

>

>

>

>I spoke with my doctor about HCG and he advised me that it is a foreign

>protien and that I would develop an allergic reaction to it six months

>down the road. Has anyone ever experienced a reaction of this sort to

>HCG?

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> How many cc = 250 IU.

10,000 IU = 10 cc

250 IU = 0.25 cc