Re: Age Adjusted Free-T Levels?

January 24, 2004

Age adjusted T ranges are a crock. You need to be in the upper third of the

200-950 range regardless of your age and then you can experiment within that

range to see what works best. The goal is to be healthy, not normal. As

I mentioned in an earlier post, I just got my bone density test back and it

says that I have the density of an average 20 years old. This is good but I

am 54. I will take it in place of the average for my age and have no

intention of trying to lower it. Men are expected to decline with age and

we are expected to treat ourselves to match the generally accepted level of

decline. To each his own. Of course if a man has only a little T and he

treats up to the average and he feels okay, then so be it- but he should not

hesistate to try to match the levels that are known to be correlated with

health (that would be total T of 800+) before determining that T has not

benefitted him.

Winter

>From: tallen2_34 <no_reply >

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Age Adjusted Free-T Levels?

>Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:08:24 -0000

>

>Does anyone have a chart showing age adjusted free-T levels?

>

>My Free T has hovered right around the lowest normal level. Last

>reading was 13.2pg/mL (13-40 pg/mL).

>

>I want to show my endo that 13.2 is a normal level for a 80 year

>old....

>

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January 24, 2004

I note that the question was around Free T and that I responded in terms of

total T. Same point however.

Winter

>From: tallen2_34 <no_reply >

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Age Adjusted Free-T Levels?

>Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:08:24 -0000

>

>Does anyone have a chart showing age adjusted free-T levels?

>

>My Free T has hovered right around the lowest normal level. Last

>reading was 13.2pg/mL (13-40 pg/mL).

>

>I want to show my endo that 13.2 is a normal level for a 80 year

>old....

>

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January 24, 2004

I completely agree. However, the medical establishment is loathe to

deviate from the conventional wisdom without sufficient evidence.

They way that they calculate the reference ranges is to take 95% of

the male population and use that as " normal " . So, they treat the 20

year old with a 1000 T level like a 80 year old with a 200. So, I am

trying to find a Free T-level age adjusted chart, to demonstrate to

my endo that my levels are low for my age. So, I can have TRT

handled by insurance. Otherwise, I will have to pay out of pocket

(which I am willing to do, but it would be nice if insurance did).

> I note that the question was around Free T and that I responded in

terms of

> total T. Same point however.

>

> Winter

>

> >From: tallen2_34 <no_reply >

> >Reply-

> >

> >Subject: Age Adjusted Free-T Levels?

> >Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:08:24 -0000

> >

> >Does anyone have a chart showing age adjusted free-T levels?

> >

> >My Free T has hovered right around the lowest normal level. Last

> >reading was 13.2pg/mL (13-40 pg/mL).

> >

> >I want to show my endo that 13.2 is a normal level for a 80 year

> >old....

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> There are now three new levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Learn

more.

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January 24, 2004

I don't believe that tehre is a free t age adjusted chart in

existence.

However, note, if your free t is the real problem, you definitely

need to get your SHBG and ESTRADIOL checked.

The reason your free t is low is probably one of those two. If your

estradiol is slightly elevated, taking arimidex by itself might

solve the problem. Going to tesosterone injections is jumping the

gun and I don't recommend it as first line treatment, especially

when your t level is testing in high 400's and you haven't even had

an estradiol test yet. (Sorry, not sure if that is you or not tallen

that just had first injection of tcyp).

Armyguy

> > I note that the question was around Free T and that I responded

in

> terms of

> > total T. Same point however.

> >

> > Winter

> >

> > >From: tallen2_34 <no_reply >

> > >Reply-

> > >

> > >Subject: Age Adjusted Free-T Levels?

> > >Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:08:24 -0000

> > >

> > >Does anyone have a chart showing age adjusted free-T levels?

> > >

> > >My Free T has hovered right around the lowest normal level.

Last

> > >reading was 13.2pg/mL (13-40 pg/mL).

> > >

> > >I want to show my endo that 13.2 is a normal level for a 80 year

> > >old....

> > >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > There are now three new levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage!

Learn

> more.

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January 24, 2004

Just see the links section. You may need to make adjustment for

differences in units of measure.

Brad

> > I note that the question was around Free T and that I responded in

> terms of

> > total T. Same point however.

> >

> > Winter

> >

> > >From: tallen2_34 <no_reply >

> > >Reply-

> > >

> > >Subject: Age Adjusted Free-T Levels?

> > >Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:08:24 -0000

> > >

> > >Does anyone have a chart showing age adjusted free-T levels?

> > >

> > >My Free T has hovered right around the lowest normal level. Last

> > >reading was 13.2pg/mL (13-40 pg/mL).

> > >

> > >I want to show my endo that 13.2 is a normal level for a 80 year

> > >old....

> > >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > There are now three new levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Learn

> more.

> > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us & page=hotmail/es2 & ST=1

January 24, 2004

Hey Brad, i think that chart only covers overall T and not free T...

> > > I note that the question was around Free T and that I responded

in

> > terms of

> > > total T. Same point however.

> > >

> > > Winter

> > >

> > > >From: tallen2_34 <no_reply >

> > > >Reply-

> > > >

> > > >Subject: Age Adjusted Free-T Levels?

> > > >Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:08:24 -0000

> > > >

> > > >Does anyone have a chart showing age adjusted free-T levels?

> > > >

> > > >My Free T has hovered right around the lowest normal level.

Last

> > > >reading was 13.2pg/mL (13-40 pg/mL).

> > > >

> > > >I want to show my endo that 13.2 is a normal level for a 80

year

> > > >old....

> > > >

> > >

_________________________________________________________________

> > > There are now three new levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage!

Learn

> > more.

> > > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us & page=hotmail/es2 & ST=1

January 24, 2004

See the 5th column of the first 2 grids...

Brad

> > > > I note that the question was around Free T and that I responded

> in

> > > terms of

> > > > total T. Same point however.

> > > >

> > > > Winter

> > > >

> > > > >From: tallen2_34 <no_reply >

> > > > >Reply-

> > > > >

> > > > >Subject: Age Adjusted Free-T Levels?

> > > > >Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:08:24 -0000

> > > > >

> > > > >Does anyone have a chart showing age adjusted free-T levels?

> > > > >

> > > > >My Free T has hovered right around the lowest normal level.

> Last

> > > > >reading was 13.2pg/mL (13-40 pg/mL).

> > > > >

> > > > >I want to show my endo that 13.2 is a normal level for a 80

> year

> > > > >old....

> > > > >

> > > >

> _________________________________________________________________

> > > > There are now three new levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage!

> Learn

> > > more.

> > > > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us & page=hotmail/es2 & ST=1

January 24, 2004

OOOPPS. You are right. HOwever, it doesn't seem to correlate to my

lab results (my lab must use a strange test/calc):

Test - 401 (241-827)

Free T - 13.2 (13-40)

LH - 2.7 (1.5 to 9.3)

FSH 2.2 (1.4 to 18.1)

Prolactin 7.5 (2.0 to 18.0)

> > > > > I note that the question was around Free T and that I

responded

> > in

> > > > terms of

> > > > > total T. Same point however.

> > > > >

> > > > > Winter

> > > > >

> > > > > >From: tallen2_34 <no_reply >

> > > > > >Reply-

> > > > > >

> > > > > >Subject: Age Adjusted Free-T Levels?

> > > > > >Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:08:24 -0000

> > > > > >

> > > > > >Does anyone have a chart showing age adjusted free-T

levels?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >My Free T has hovered right around the lowest normal

level.

> > Last

> > > > > >reading was 13.2pg/mL (13-40 pg/mL).

> > > > > >

> > > > > >I want to show my endo that 13.2 is a normal level for a

80

> > year

> > > > > >old....

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > > > > There are now three new levels of MSN Hotmail Extra

Storage!

> > Learn

> > > > more.

> > > > > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us & page=hotmail/es2 & ST=1

January 24, 2004

Unilab (now Qwest) had a range breakdown on their free T numbers.

The overall range was similar to yours (13-40). The normal for 20-30

year olds was 20-40, then it went down by two on each side of the

range for each decade. I also scored 13.2 and now I know my numbers

were quite low.

> > > > > > I note that the question was around Free T and that I

> responded

> > > in

> > > > > terms of

> > > > > > total T. Same point however.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Winter

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >From: tallen2_34 <no_reply >

> > > > > > >Reply-

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >Subject: Age Adjusted Free-T Levels?

> > > > > > >Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:08:24 -0000

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >Does anyone have a chart showing age adjusted free-T

> levels?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >My Free T has hovered right around the lowest normal

> level.

> > > Last

> > > > > > >reading was 13.2pg/mL (13-40 pg/mL).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >I want to show my endo that 13.2 is a normal level for a

> 80

> > > year

> > > > > > >old....

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > >

_________________________________________________________________

> > > > > > There are now three new levels of MSN Hotmail Extra

> Storage!

> > > Learn

> > > > > more.

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January 24, 2004

I understand the point that you are making and I have seen plenty of charts

like that so maybe someone can provide a link. However, I think that you

need to be carefull that you have determined exactly what the insurance

company's criteria is. Normally, they dont want to pay unless you fall

outside of that 200-1000 range regardless of your age. You may think that

it makes sense to make a case that you are low for your age but dont assume

that logic works with insurance companies. Find out what their criteria is

before jumping through hoops that will do no good. If your T reading is a

just a little too high to get coverage then have it tested again late in the

day when it would be at its lowest level and then submit those results to

the insurance company. Late afternoon could be as low as half of early

morning.

Also, keep in mind that androgel (for example) will cost 200 a month. If,

for example, you pay 60 dollars copay then I would just skip frigging around

with the insurance company altogether because you can get three months worth

of T (more or less) from a compounding pharmacy for the same amount as the

copay and not have to fight with the insurance company. Thats what I do.

Just things to consider.