Re: Cult Leaders

[Guest guest]

Some people would try absolutely anything to sell their product. Mr. All The

Best Rob, what is it you are trying to sell?

I find that you have failed to mention how well Dr. s methods work to

gain true health. I would like to say that I have excellent health due to

these standards and that there are some people, intelligent people, who can

see through the jargon of those whom are monetarily driven.

I question the intentions of your presence. I don't recall any mention in any

of Dr. s books of any religion. Health could be construed as a religion,

I suppose, but it would appear you are grasping at straws with that one.

It is my experience that anti-holistic type individuals condemning true

health fascilities such as this letter group, are cult leaders of the worst

kind........

I am very grateful for the wisdom and knowledge that Hulda has so

graciously offered.....I can only dare-I-say " pray " that despite the endless

futile attempts to turn others away from the truths of health, that someday

all will benefit from these truths. Long live Hulda. FOGGS

[Guest guest]

Dear 'professional' scoffer rob_davis et al,

" ...Said Professor Erasmus of Oxford University, 'I think I may

say without contradiction that when the Paris Exhibition closes,

electric light will close with it, and no more will be heard of it.'

" ...An invitation was extended to witness one of humanity's most

historic moments – the brothers' first flight in their

heavier-than-air machine. Five people turned up.

" ...H. B. Warner of Warner Brothers fame scoffed at the notion of

'talkies.' No one would want to hear movie actors talk.

" ...Television, too, was once written off. It would never appeal to the

average American family, pronounced the New York Times.

And now we have Dr. . Another one of THOSE people. People you

obviously 'feel' like protecting the world from with your ordinary

thinking and conventional logic.

We of this list who 'evangelize' Dr. 's protocols are much like

those five supporters who came to Kittyhawk, not those millions who now

demand first class seats with their lawyers.

We are like the investors in 'talkies', not those who go to theaters

with their cell phones talking loudly about their latest real estate

adventure.

We are those who enjoy and pursue disease free vibrant health, and

healthful ideas, not those who are unconscious recruits of 's

establishment supported quackwatch 'pros'.

It's hard to believe you have even read Dre. 's books, read all

these list archives, read all the sites with testimonials, read of

similar luminaries such as Beck , Rife and yes, even Tesla (you KNOW the

tesla coil is 'out there' and if you don't, then obviously you can

continue developing the earth power transmission tower and earth

magnifier, etc., as mentioned in Prodigal Genius... .). Do geniuses need

the endorsement of the eternally skeptical subgenius? No sir, nature

finds a way around the uncooperative, inconsiderate, misunderstanding ,

but dependably employed---'refuter of new ideas'.

Give us some indication that you can actually read genius material, and

then maybe like Dr. Seuss's Sam I AM, you will try it.

TRY IT!

Marve

From:

rob_davis@...

Hi List,

On 5/17/99 R. Sooley, D.C. <drsooley@x...> wrote:

> What type of research has been done on the syncrometer

> and what are the results. I don't even want to be

> picky...just any research at all to read.

I'd also like to see some research, just any research.

We haven't seen any research so far but it may not be a

surprise. In their " Life Extension " Durk Pearson and

Sandy Shaw write:

" You can usually recognize cult leaders by these

characteristics:

- They cite studies favorable to their beliefs which are

either heavily anecdotal in nature, were not done

double blind, or had no controls.

- They tend to sound like evangelist, high on 'pep talk'

and low on evidence.

- They will not cooperate with attempts of outsiders to

determine experimentally what are the effects of their

treatments and what are their mechanisms of action.

Such attempts are considered a threat to their

monopoly in their particular intellectual 'territory'. "

All the very best,

Rob

Rob , P.E.

Licensed Professional Engineer

E-mail: rob_davis@...

Home page: http://www.geocities.com/r-davis/

Enter Ht: ft.

in.

Enter Wt: lbs.

[Guest guest]

Marve,

What you write below is interesting. I would like to point out,

however, that the advances you note were quickly embraced by society because

they could be seen to obviously work. If Dr. would show that

she obviously has "the cure for all diseases," her ideas would be embraced

as well. In the front of her book, "The Cure For All Cancers" it

says one can cancel their "date for surgery, radiation or Chemotherapy."

It then says, "After curing your cancer with this recipe it cannot come

back." How can a discovery like this be kept down?

A grassroots swelling of numbers by the many she has permanently cured

of their cancer, and cured of AIDS and other terrible diseases, will someday

show she obviously has "The Cure." When will this growing number

of cured sufferers unify and make their voices heard? I wish they

would implore Dr. to give out their real names and complete health

records, meet in one place, hold a press conference, and demand that the

world take notice. If they were to do this, public pressure would

end her Indiana legal trouble, and millions more would be more aware of

her amazing curative discoveries. Even conventional physicians could

assist in employing Dr. 's methods more effectively, and they would

be heroes. Certainly this would appeal to some in the conventional

medical community.

The media may be controlled by many wealthy corporate interests, but

they cannot prevail over a story as big as the "The Cure For All Diseases."

Eventually there will be defectors who will not stand for censoring a story

as huge and beneficial to humankind as "The Cure For All Diseases."

And even the big money interests cannot stop a grassroots movement that

the public sees as so vital to saving their lives.

Freedom of the press has given Dr. a lot of exposure. If

her cures work, it will eventually become obvious, and they will be used,

in my opinion. If the cures don't work, the controversy will probably

go on for many years, and future generations will wrestle with it as they

too are faced with serious health problems. It may take a long time

unfortunately, for civilization to accurately determine if Dr. is

indeed the discoverer of the practical and useful "Cure For All Diseases."

Bill Ross

Another thing to consider. Many

mratchford@... wrote:

"...Said Professor Erasmus of Oxford University,

'I think I may

say without contradiction that when the Paris Exhibition closes,

electric light will close with it, and no more will be heard of it.'

"...An invitation was extended to witness one of humanity's most

historic moments – the brothers' first flight in their

heavier-than-air machine. Five people turned up.

"...H. B. Warner of Warner Brothers fame scoffed at the notion of

'talkies.' No one would want to hear movie actors talk.

"...Television, too, was once written off. It would never appeal to the

average American family, pronounced the New York Times.

And now we have Dr. . Another one of THOSE people. People you

obviously 'feel' like protecting the world from with your ordinary

thinking and conventional logic.

We of this list who 'evangelize' Dr. 's protocols are much like

those five supporters who came to Kittyhawk, not those millions who now

demand first class seats with their lawyers.

We are like the investors in 'talkies', not those who go to theaters

with their cell phones talking loudly about their latest real estate

adventure.

We are those who enjoy and pursue disease free vibrant health, and

healthful ideas, not those who are unconscious recruits of 's

establishment supported quackwatch 'pros'.

It's hard to believe you have even read Dre. 's books, read all

these list archives, read all the sites with testimonials, read of

similar luminaries such as Beck , Rife and yes, even Tesla (you KNOW the

tesla coil is 'out there' and if you don't, then obviously you can

continue developing the earth power transmission tower and earth

magnifier, etc., as mentioned in Prodigal Genius... .). Do geniuses need

the endorsement of the eternally skeptical subgenius? No sir, nature

finds a way around the uncooperative, inconsiderate, misunderstanding ,

but dependably employed---'refuter of new ideas'.

Give us some indication that you can actually read genius material, and

then maybe like Dr. Seuss's Sam I AM, you will try it.

TRY IT!

Marve

[Guest guest]

VERY WELL SAID JOHN. THANKS

Jan

<< >> If Dr. would show that she obviously has " the cure for all

diseases, " her ideas would be embraced as well.

Actually naturopaths (of which Dr. clark is one) have known the cure for all

diseases for at least a hundred years. If you eat only raw vegetables, drink

a lot of carrot juice and plain water, take some supplements like Barley

Green or Spirulina and EFAs, and eschew all meat, milk, sugar, refined

grains, alcohol, cigarrettes etc, and get a lot of exercise, your body will

cure itself of almost any disease. Reverand Malkmus, Lorraine Day and many

others have documented this. Thouble is very few people would be willing to

follow a diet and lifetstyle like this. Dr. 's protocols of geting rid

of all of yor dental work, all sources of pollution in your personal care

products and your house (replacing your copper pipes etc), geting rid of

parasites, boiling all of your dairy products before you consume them etc, is

very stict and very difficult follow.

Dr. clark being absolutely right about every point is not important to me.

She has indeed changed her views on some subjects as her research proceeds

from book to book. What is important about her work to me is the pioneering

connection she has made between dental amalgams, leaky refridgerators, leaky

furnaces, isopropyl alcohol and benzene in body care and household products,

parasites, and diseases. She is looking into things that no one else has

suspected as being the source of our degenerative diseases.

The most common response among those who reject her research is that it is

'unscientific' and unsubstantiated by double-blind studies. But that is true

of all holistic approaches. Holistic by definition deals with the whole

person, instead of isolating something very specific that can be tested using

the scientific method. And look where the legions of those who follow the

scientific method have lead us. We live in a sea of pollution, eat food that

is basically cardboard, with enough sugar and excitotoxins to keep us

addicted. We rub poisons into our skin each day, ingest medicines that

suppress our bodies attempt to heal itself and proclaim to have no idea what

is causing this epidemic of degenerative diseases. This is the legacy of

isolating substances and proclaiming them 'safe', without considering the

effect that they have on the whole person.

I salute researchers such as Dr. clark who are willing to face the contempt

and ridicule of the 'scientific' establishment in their concern for the

health of people like myself who desperately need the input of independent

researchers who see the effects of living in the toxic pit that scientists

have thrown us into and now don't have a clue how to get us out of.

The world will someday embrace the pioneering ideas of Dr. clark, but it

won't be in her lifetime and it won't be until the affects of pollution are

so obvious that the chemical comapnies propaganda can no longer work it's

mass hypnosis. It will await a new generation that has freed itsef from the

shackles of the AMA, the FDA and other running dogs of the chemical

companies. Those who sneer and Dr. today and devise clever put-downs

will be forgotten soon. People are waking up to the fact that they are

swimming in a sea of pollution, created by the greed and dishonesty of those

who worship money instead of God. And when they reach for a lifeline, it

won't be Barrett and his cronies that are throwing them one.

Counts >>

[Guest guest]

Wonderfully said ..................Belinda

www.neways.com/user/belindat

[Guest guest]

>> If Dr. would show that she obviously has "the cure for all diseases," her ideas would be embraced as well.

Actually naturopaths (of which Dr. clark is one) have known the cure for all diseases for at least a hundred years. If you eat only raw vegetables, drink a lot of carrot juice and plain water, take some supplements like Barley Green or Spirulina and EFAs, and eschew all meat, milk, sugar, refined grains, alcohol, cigarrettes etc, and get a lot of exercise, your body will cure itself of almost any disease. Reverand Malkmus, Lorraine Day and many others have documented this. Thouble is very few people would be willing to follow a diet and lifetstyle like this. Dr. 's protocols of geting rid of all of yor dental work, all sources of pollution in your personal care products and your house (replacing your copper pipes etc), geting rid of parasites, boiling all of your dairy products before you consume them etc, is very stict and very difficult follow.

Dr. clark being absolutely right about every point is not important to me. She has indeed changed her views on some subjects as her research proceeds from book to book. What is important about her work to me is the pioneering connection she has made between dental amalgams, leaky refridgerators, leaky furnaces, isopropyl alcohol and benzene in body care and household products, parasites, and diseases. She is looking into things that no one else has suspected as being the source of our degenerative diseases.

The most common response among those who reject her research is that it is 'unscientific' and unsubstantiated by double-blind studies. But that is true of all holistic approaches. Holistic by definition deals with the whole person, instead of isolating something very specific that can be tested using the scientific method. And look where the legions of those who follow the scientific method have lead us. We live in a sea of pollution, eat food that is basically cardboard, with enough sugar and excitotoxins to keep us addicted. We rub poisons into our skin each day, ingest medicines that suppress our bodies attempt to heal itself and proclaim to have no idea what is causing this epidemic of degenerative diseases. This is the legacy of isolating substances and proclaiming them 'safe', without considering the effect that they have on the whole person.

I salute researchers such as Dr. clark who are willing to face the contempt and ridicule of the 'scientific' establishment in their concern for the health of people like myself who desperately need the input of independent researchers who see the effects of living in the toxic pit that scientists have thrown us into and now don't have a clue how to get us out of.

The world will someday embrace the pioneering ideas of Dr. clark, but it won't be in her lifetime and it won't be until the affects of pollution are so obvious that the chemical comapnies propaganda can no longer work it's mass hypnosis. It will await a new generation that has freed itsef from the shackles of the AMA, the FDA and other running dogs of the chemical companies. Those who sneer and Dr. today and devise clever put-downs will be forgotten soon. People are waking up to the fact that they are swimming in a sea of pollution, created by the greed and dishonesty of those who worship money instead of God. And when they reach for a lifeline, it won't be Barrett and his cronies that are throwing them one.

Counts

[Guest guest]

You actually listen to the words of Dr. Quack? Take a word of wisdom. Why don't you research Dr. Quack's ( Barret's ) background before accepting anything he says. He is not very well respected among his peers. He has very little moral fiber. I am all for solid research and solid theory, the scientific way. He should have become a politician.

Re: Cult Leaders

From: Bill Ross <rossviva@...> JDrew63929@... wrote:>> Bill,>> I thought you had read her books?Jan, I bought "The Cure For All Cancers" and read parts of it. At the very beginning that book says,"you may not have time," and on that same page it says that "after curing your cancer with this recipe itcannot come back." I took this to mean what it says, "it cannot come back." I should have known it islikely marketing terminology to sell the book. I also read through many of the case studies. They werenot convincing to me. After Dr. 's arrest, I donated the book to Dr. Barrett of Quackwatch. Laterhe posted a review of the book on his website.http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/clark.htmlThis review has influenced my opinion of Dr. . If this review has lies or distortions in it, I wouldappreciate having them pointed out to me. I think Dr. Barrett's analysis of the 50 case studies isparticularly compelling. And Dr. Barrett is not what one would consider, in the traditional sense, a"friend" of mine, as someone else suggested. I've only had email contact with him, and have never methim. I've had significant in person interaction with Dr. 's supporters, and much more in depthexchange of opinion with them as well.(end of first portion of my reply)> Yes she does say it can be stopped quickly,> but she sure doesn't stop there. First you must rid your body of the> parasites. Then you move on to rid your body of the toxins. Just as with the> dental work, get rid of the metal, then start on ridding the body of the> mercury. This takes a long time. If you return to all the polluted products> you are defeating the whole purpose. What I notice here is that you are much> like all the debunkers on the health newsgroups. Many of these questions can> be answered.........by just reading the books. Stopping the disease is just> that..........stopping..........next it's on to the dental work, the toxins,> the pollutions, etc. You seem to be thinking in terms of conventional> medicine. A trip to the ER for a quick fix..........does you MD ever tell you> what to do next?? To keep the problem from returning?? Or find what caused> it in the first place??Jan, M.D.s do often attempt to give such advice. They try to get smokers to stop for instance, and obesepeople to lose weight. Conventional medicine often advises the public on what to do to try and minimizethe causes of disease and disease recurrence. Most people don't seem to take it to heart, and then end upin the ER hoping for a quick fix. Faced with an uncooperating public, physicians do what they can to tryand "fix" people. They do not advise people of the things Dr. mentions quite often, but in somecases I think they do (avoid toxins, eat healthier).Thank you for considering my opinions and concerns,Bill

Servings of fruit a day: 0 1 2+

[Guest guest]

Counts wrote:

Actually naturopaths (of which

Dr. clark is one) have known the cure for all diseases for at least a hundred

years. If you eat only raw vegetables, drink a lot of carrot juice

and plain water, take some supplements like Barley Green or Spirulina and

EFAs, and eschew all meat, milk, sugar, refined grains, alcohol, cigarrettes

etc, and get a lot of exercise, your body will cure itself of almost any

disease. Reverand Malkmus, Lorraine Day and many others have documented

this. Thouble is very few people would be willing to follow a diet

and lifetstyle like this. Dr. 's protocols of geting rid of

all of yor dental work, all sources of pollution in your personal care

products and your house (replacing your copper pipes etc), geting rid of

parasites, boiling all of your dairy products before you consume them etc,

is very stict and very difficult follow.

and list: People are being cured all the time

of many deadly diseases, and they don't have to go through all the difficult

steps described above. Anne Frahm, who wrote "A Cancer Battle Plan,"

believing many of the strict measures above saved her. She died not

long ago. Bloch (cofounder of H & R Block) and Mrs. Ramsey

(JonBenet's mother) are two well known figures who come to mind, who have

beat advanced cancers for some time by using conventional medicine.

Conventional medicine has saved many a patient from early death from cardiovascular

disease, diabetes, some cancers and numerous infectious diseases; and without

resorting to extreme lifestyle changes that are impractical to nearly impossible

to follow, and not proven in totality to work. We agree, that holistic

approaches are near impossible to prove in double blind studies -- and

near impossible to disprove.

Dr. clark being absolutely

right about every point is not important to me. She has indeed changed

her views on some subjects as her research proceeds from book to book.

What is important about her work to me is the pioneering connection she

has made between dental amalgams, leaky refridgerators, leaky furnaces,

isopropyl alcohol and benzene in body care and household products, parasites,

and diseases. She is looking into things that no one else has suspected

as being the source of our degenerative diseases. The

most common response among those who reject her research is that it is

'unscientific' and unsubstantiated by double-blind studies. But that

is true of all holistic approaches. Holistic by definition deals

with the whole person, instead of isolating something very specific that

can be tested using the scientific method. And look where the legions

of those who follow the scientific method have lead us.

,, they have led us to a world of affluence, where

life expectancy is continuing to climb dramatically, and where disease

like smallpox, TB, polio, diptheria, measles, pneumonia and on and on are

not the killers they were to our grandparents.

We live in a sea of pollution, eat food that is basically

cardboard, with enough sugar and excitotoxins to keep us addicted.

Sure there's pollution, but paradise is hard to find.

Many attempts are being made to deal with pollution, and with the world

population as large as it is thanks in large part to science extending

lifespans, pollution is a big problem. A lot of food does taste pretty

bland, but a lot of it is pretty good -- and it's available year round

almost everywhere! People who remember the good ole days, or who

come from a 3rd world country know we have it very good here today.

I agree we need to live a cleaner and less polluting, more active, lifestyle.

sincerely,

Bill Ross

We rub poisons into our skin each day, ingest medicines

that suppress our bodies attempt to heal itself and proclaim to have

no idea what is causing this epidemic of degenerative diseases. This

is the legacy of isolating substances and proclaiming them 'safe', without

considering the effect that they have on the whole person. I

salute researchers such as Dr. clark who are willing to face the contempt

and ridicule of the 'scientific' establishment in their concern for the

health of people like myself who desperately need the input of independent

researchers who see the effects of living in the toxic pit that scientists

have thrown us into and now don't have a clue how to get us out of. The

world will someday embrace the pioneering ideas of Dr. clark, but it won't

be in her lifetime and it won't be until the affects of pollution are so

obvious that the chemical comapnies propaganda can no longer work it's

mass hypnosis. It will await a new generation that has freed itsef from

the shackles of the AMA, the FDA and other running dogs of the chemical

companies. Those who sneer and Dr. today and devise clever

put-downs will be forgotten soon. People are waking up to the fact

that they are swimming in a sea of pollution, created by the greed and

dishonesty of those who worship money instead of God. And when they reach

for a lifeline, it won't be Barrett and his cronies that are throwing

them one. Counts

[Guest guest]

So, Bill go join the ranks of your conventional

medicine people who are completely out of my

price range. Yes the great uninsured are a growing

faction in this society, thanks to many greedy

corporate interests. I must say a GRAND thank

you to them for making me look at the alternative

PREVENTATIVE medicines and measures available.

I've gotten rid of my own gallstones, improved

my own health and it's been great fun, not to

mention. I plan on avoiding the knife if it means

a gallstone flush or 100, how wonderful it is to be

able to do this on your own and obviously how much

more healthy.

Cult leaders like the FDA, and your Gods.

[Guest guest]

Bill, if you did the cleanses, you would find what you were looking for...

[Guest guest]

To Counts, fromLynne: Thank-you for your balanced, insightful and God

honoring essay. Top quality. L.

>From: " Counts " <jcounts@...>

>Reply-Dronelist

><Dronelist>

>Subject: Re: Cult Leaders

>Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:47:22 -0500

>

> >> If Dr. would show that she obviously has " the cure for all

>diseases, " her ideas would be embraced as well.

>

>Actually naturopaths (of which Dr. clark is one) have known the cure for

>all diseases for at least a hundred years. If you eat only raw vegetables,

>drink a lot of carrot juice and plain water, take some supplements like

>Barley Green or Spirulina and EFAs, and eschew all meat, milk, sugar,

>refined grains, alcohol, cigarrettes etc, and get a lot of exercise, your

>body will cure itself of almost any disease. Reverand Malkmus, Lorraine

>Day and many others have documented this. Thouble is very few people would

>be willing to follow a diet and lifetstyle like this. Dr. 's

>protocols of geting rid of all of yor dental work, all sources of pollution

>in your personal care products and your house (replacing your copper pipes

>etc), geting rid of parasites, boiling all of your dairy products before

>you consume them etc, is very stict and very difficult follow.

>

>Dr. clark being absolutely right about every point is not important to me.

>She has indeed changed her views on some subjects as her research proceeds

>from book to book. What is important about her work to me is the

>pioneering connection she has made between dental amalgams, leaky

>refridgerators, leaky furnaces, isopropyl alcohol and benzene in body care

>and household products, parasites, and diseases. She is looking into

>things that no one else has suspected as being the source of our

>degenerative diseases.

>

>The most common response among those who reject her research is that it is

>'unscientific' and unsubstantiated by double-blind studies. But that is

>true of all holistic approaches. Holistic by definition deals with the

>whole person, instead of isolating something very specific that can be

>tested using the scientific method. And look where the legions of those

>who follow the scientific method have lead us. We live in a sea of

>pollution, eat food that is basically cardboard, with enough sugar and

>excitotoxins to keep us addicted. We rub poisons into our skin each day,

>ingest medicines that suppress our bodies attempt to heal itself and

>proclaim to have no idea what is causing this epidemic of degenerative

>diseases. This is the legacy of isolating substances and proclaiming them

>'safe', without considering the effect that they have on the whole person.

>

>I salute researchers such as Dr. clark who are willing to face the contempt

>and ridicule of the 'scientific' establishment in their concern for the

>health of people like myself who desperately need the input of independent

>researchers who see the effects of living in the toxic pit that scientists

>have thrown us into and now don't have a clue how to get us out of.

>

>The world will someday embrace the pioneering ideas of Dr. clark, but it

>won't be in her lifetime and it won't be until the affects of pollution are

>so obvious that the chemical comapnies propaganda can no longer work it's

>mass hypnosis. It will await a new generation that has freed itsef from the

>shackles of the AMA, the FDA and other running dogs of the chemical

>companies. Those who sneer and Dr. today and devise clever put-downs

>will be forgotten soon. People are waking up to the fact that they are

>swimming in a sea of pollution, created by the greed and dishonesty of

>those who worship money instead of God. And when they reach for a lifeline,

>it won't be Barrett and his cronies that are throwing them one.

>

> Counts

>

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Dear Bill,

Yes, conventional medicine has accomplished much, but is it not overdone?

Don't you think it's most effective, and at its best, in the treatment of

acute illnesses or trauma, rather than in chronic disease? Were I to be

diagnosed with cancer today, an M.D. would be the last health professional I

would contact, and a naturopath would be my first choice of a health

professional. MD's don't treat disease, they treat symptoms. According to

the AMA, 200,000 people die each year from the correct use of prescriptions,

and another 80,000 to 98,000 die from malpractice. Only 40,000 die each

year from car accidents. Thus, when an American walks into a doctor's

office, he/she is 7 times more likely to die from the doctor than from a car

accident.

The prospect of changing my diet to 85% raw vegees, eliminating all

dairy and flushing the toxins out with several quarts of water a day may

sound radical, but it's far more preferable to a radical mastectomy. The

stats I quoted above don't include deaths from chemo-

therapy and radiation. We don't know, and are not likely to ever know, how

many cancer patients die from these toxic treatments than from cancer. I'll

choose dying from the disease over dying from the poisons that a myopic

medical community would have me undergo.

Yes, praise God, we don't have to worry about our kids contracting

>smallpox or polio. But in addition to the vaccinations which pro-

tected millions of children, those viruses have also run their course in our

country, at least, and only exist in laboratories. To vaccin-

ate against those illnesses, and most others, is no longer necessary and has

proven time and again to be harmful and even lethal. We no longer vaccinate

our 5 kids, not even against TB and polio. (That's another health frontier

we've embarked upon, enduring pressure and ridicule from others). There is

big money and politics involved in the production and administration of

vaccines, as well. So it goes on.

Finally, our toxic environment and our traditional diets may also be

causing the awful increase in childhood cancers, and the epidemic of kids

diagnosed with ADHD, among all other diseases. Our kids are suf-

fering due to our complacency, laziness, reluctance to change, etc. It's a

very tough battle, but we have to advance for our kids' sakes.

Goliath was defeated by a boy who trusted in his God. The same God has told

us not to put unholy junk into our bodies, and He's also told us that He's

given us plants for the service of mankind. Dr. and her pioneering

kind may not all honor the same God, but He has honored their work if it is

in keeping with His design. Thanks for " listening " . L.

>Reply-Dronelist

>Dronelist

>Subject: Re: Cult Leaders

>Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:15:01 -0500

>

>

>

> Counts wrote:

>

> > Actually naturopaths (of which Dr. clark is one) have known the cure

> > for all diseases for at least a hundred years. If you eat only raw

> > vegetables, drink a lot of carrot juice and plain water, take some

> > supplements like Barley Green or Spirulina and EFAs, and eschew all

> > meat, milk, sugar, refined grains, alcohol, cigarrettes etc, and get a

> > lot of exercise, your body will cure itself of almost any disease.

> > Reverand Malkmus, Lorraine Day and many others have documented this.

> > Thouble is very few people would be willing to follow a diet and

> > lifetstyle like this. Dr. 's protocols of geting rid of all of

> > yor dental work, all sources of pollution in your personal care

> > products and your house (replacing your copper pipes etc), geting rid

> > of parasites, boiling all of your dairy products before you consume

> > them etc, is very stict and very difficult follow.

> >

> > and list: People are being cured all the time of many deadly

> > diseases, and they don't have to go through all the difficult steps

> > described above. Anne Frahm, who wrote " A Cancer Battle Plan, "

> > believing many of the strict measures above saved her. She died not

> > long ago. Bloch (cofounder of H & R Block) and Mrs. Ramsey

> > (JonBenet's mother) are two well known figures who come to mind, who

> > have beat advanced cancers for some time by using conventional

> > medicine. Conventional medicine has saved many a patient from early

> > death from cardiovascular disease, diabetes, some cancers and numerous

> > infectious diseases; and without resorting to extreme lifestyle

> > changes that are impractical to nearly impossible to follow, and not

> > proven in totality to work. We agree, that holistic approaches are

> > near impossible to prove in double blind studies -- and near

> > impossible to disprove.

> >

> > Dr. clark being absolutely right about every point is not important

> > to me. She has indeed changed her views on some subjects as her

> > research proceeds from book to book. What is important about her work

> > to me is the pioneering connection she has made between dental

> > amalgams, leaky refridgerators, leaky furnaces, isopropyl alcohol and

> > benzene in body care and household products, parasites, and diseases.

> > She is looking into things that no one else has suspected as being the

> > source of our degenerative diseases. The most common response among

> > those who reject her research is that it is 'unscientific' and

> > unsubstantiated by double-blind studies. But that is true of all

> > holistic approaches. Holistic by definition deals with the whole

> > person, instead of isolating something very specific that can be

> > tested using the scientific method. And look where the legions of

> > those who follow the scientific method have lead us.

> >

> > ,, they have led us to a world of affluence, where life expectancy

> > is continuing to climb dramatically, and where disease like smallpox,

> > TB, polio, diptheria, measles, pneumonia and on and on are not the

> > killers they were to our grandparents.

> >

> > We live in a sea of pollution, eat food that is basically cardboard,

> > with enough sugar and excitotoxins to keep us addicted.

> >

> > Sure there's pollution, but paradise is hard to find. Many attempts

> > are being made to deal with pollution, and with the world population

> > as large as it is thanks in large part to science extending lifespans,

> > pollution is a big problem. A lot of food does taste pretty bland,

> > but a lot of it is pretty good -- and it's available year round almost

> > everywhere! People who remember the good ole days, or who come from a

> > 3rd world country know we have it very good here today. I agree we

> > need to live a cleaner and less polluting, more active, lifestyle.

> >

> > sincerely,

> > Bill Ross

> >

> > We rub poisons into our skin each day, ingest medicines that suppress

> > our bodies attempt to heal itself and proclaim to have no idea what

> > is causing this epidemic of degenerative diseases. This is the legacy

> > of isolating substances and proclaiming them 'safe', without

> > considering the effect that they have on the whole person. I salute

> > researchers such as Dr. clark who are willing to face the contempt and

> > ridicule of the 'scientific' establishment in their concern for the

> > health of people like myself who desperately need the input of

> > independent researchers who see the effects of living in the toxic pit

> > that scientists have thrown us into and now don't have a clue how to

> > get us out of. The world will someday embrace the pioneering ideas of

> > Dr. clark, but it won't be in her lifetime and it won't be until the

> > affects of pollution are so obvious that the chemical comapnies

> > propaganda can no longer work it's mass hypnosis. It will await a new

> > generation that has freed itsef from the shackles of the AMA, the FDA

> > and other running dogs of the chemical companies. Those who sneer and

> > Dr. today and devise clever put-downs will be forgotten soon.

> > People are waking up to the fact that they are swimming in a sea of

> > pollution, created by the greed and dishonesty of those who worship

> > money instead of God. And when they reach for a lifeline, it won't be

> > Barrett and his cronies that are throwing them one.

> > Counts

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Bill,

I think that you should try some of her methods before you judge all of her

work. Then , at least, you would have some experience or insightfulness from

that of which you speak. It won't hurt you , it can only help you and you won't

go broke doing it! I know some find all of this hard to believe, especially

those who have been brainwashed by the medical and pharmaceutical companies.

These companies have planted a seed in everyones mind that ONLY THEY have the

answer and all others are quackery! Do you really believe that?, esp. after

case after case has been found to have been tampered with if the results did not

support their objective, which is , to make money and have inclusive rights to

the " magic pill. "

To be fair, the med. and pharm. co's have made a contribution. But so have

those in the " natural " arena, which the AMA, FDA and pharm. denounce because of

greed (most of the time). I also believe that people should read and research

on their own if they want to know the truth about anything. I also do not

believe in taking advantage of people, esp those who may be desperate to regain

their health. But, the record and testimonies speak for themselves, do they

not? No, a 10 million dollar study was not done, but that does not negate the

results. The Chinese think that the Americans are riduclous in spending so much

money to find out the WHY's. In their minds, if it works and has been used

safely, why must we know why and spend millions on finding the answer. I'll

tell you why, because to make any money, the pharmaceutical company would have

to isolate that " believed to be " active component of a plant or whatever, and

then add all their fillers and binders etc. in ord!

er to patent it. They will recoup their money, by patenting it and convincing

doctors that they are so intelligent and have spent millions to make this

product, who else could have such a great product after spending this kind of

money! However, almost all the time, these " patented miracles " are totally

inferior and much more dangerous that the orginal plant or source. They failed

to realize that everything has a purpose, and that other ingredients or

chemicals present in the plant helped the plant retain a balance to guard

against side effects, negative results etc. The pharmaceutical companies also

support the medical schools etc. , so doctors are brainwashed from their

beginning into the medical field.

This is unfortunate , but very true you will find if you do your homework. I

hope that soon you will discover the truth. You may need this truth one day and

so may your child, mother, father etc. You can buy into all the propaganda put

out there by the medical and pharmaceutical establishments and help to ensure

that they keep getting their " millions " by monopolizing the health industry or

you can use a little common sense and unbiased research to find that effective,

in expensive (in comparison) alternatives do exist. God has made better

materials for healing than any pharmaceutical company ever concocted in a lab.

Which one will you believe? I guess time shall answer that question for

you...................Belinda

[Guest guest]

<< It troubles me that at the beginning of Dr. 's book on curing

cancer, this " very difficult " aspect of the cure is not mentioned as far

as I know. >>

" Read the case histories to see how easy it is to stop even terminal

cancer. " " Go directly to the cancer curing recipe and order your

supplies. Using the herbal recipe together with the zapper is best. It

only takes days to be cured of cancer regardless of the type you have.

It does not matter how far progressed the cancer is, you can still stop

it in 5 days. "

The above claims at Amrein's website, which encourage cancer

sufferers to " order supplies " and " stop it in 5 days " seems quite at

odds with the " very strict and difficult to follow " description you

yours. How do you explain this disparity?

Bill,

I thought you had read her books? Yes she does say it can be stopped quickly,

but she sure doesn't stop there. First you must rid your body of the

parasites. Then you move on to rid your body of the toxins. Just as with the

dental work, get rid of the metal, then start on ridding the body of the

mercury. This takes a long time. If you return to all the polluted products

you are defeating the whole purpose. What I notice here is that you are much

like all the debunkers on the health newsgroups. Many of these questions can

be answered.........by just reading the books. Stopping the disease is just

that..........stopping..........next it's on to the dental work, the toxins,

the pollutions, etc. You seem to be thinking in terms of conventional

medicine. A trip to the ER for a quick fix..........does you MD ever tell you

what to do next?? To keep the problem from returning?? Or find what caused

it in the first place?? I don't think so! If you think Hulda just says buy

the parasite cleanse........ all worries are over...you are now cured.....go

home and don't change a thing........you are very sadly mistaken.

Jan

[Guest guest]

<< Bill Ross wrote:

> You can read what I'm talking about by going to:

> http://www..ch/cancer/canc_frame.htm

" click " on where it says, " you may not have time "

Read carefully Bill. After you have stopped the cancer you can turn your

attention to getting well. NO WHERE does she ever say.........stop the

cancer....Walla....you are cured.

Jan

Sorry I left that out of my previous post. >>

[Guest guest]

Counts wrote:

Dr. 's protocols of getting rid of all of

your dental work, all sources of pollution in your personal care products

and your house (replacing your copper pipes etc.), getting rid of parasites,

boiling all of your dairy products before you consume them etc., is very

stilt and very difficult follow.

,

You say it is "very strict and very difficult to follow."

I've heard this before, usually when I ask about those who die of cancer

who have been to Dr. 's clinic for cancer help.

It troubles me that at the beginning of Dr. 's book

on curing cancer, this "very difficult" aspect of the cure is not mentioned

as far as I know. And at the "Dr. Research Association" website,

they suggest Dr. 's cancer cure is fast and "easy," and no mention

is made of the "very difficult" nature of the alleged cure. You can

read what I'm talking about by going to:

http://www..ch/cancer/canc_frame.htm

Following are some quotes from that webpage, which illustrate

what I'm talking about:

"Read the case histories to see how easy it is to stop

even terminal cancer." "Go directly to the cancer curing recipe and

order your supplies. Using the herbal recipe together with the zapper

is best. It only takes days to be cured of cancer regardless of the

type you have. It does not matter how far progressed the cancer is,

you can still stop it in 5 days."

The above claims at Amrein's website, which encourage

cancer sufferers to "order supplies" and "stop it in 5 days" seems quite

at odds with the "very strict and difficult to follow" description you

yours. How do you explain this disparity?

Bill Ross

[Guest guest]

Bill Ross wrote:

You can read what I'm talking

about by going to:

http://www..ch/cancer/canc_frame.htm

"click" on where it says, "you may not have time"

Sorry I left that out of my previous post.

Bill Ross

Following are some quotes from that webpage, which illustrate

what I'm talking about:

"Read the case histories to see how easy it is to stop

even terminal cancer." "Go directly to the cancer curing recipe and

order your supplies. Using the herbal recipe together with the zapper

is best. It only takes days to be cured of cancer regardless of the

type you have. It does not matter how far progressed the cancer is,

you can still stop it in 5 days."

The above claims at Amrein's website, which encourage

cancer sufferers to "order supplies" and "stop it in 5 days" seems quite

at odds with the "very strict and difficult to follow" description you

yours. How do you explain this disparity?

Bill Ross

Conditions

A to Z: Drug Database: Vitamins

& Minerals: Alternative Practices: Herbal

Index: Allergy Index: Ask

Our Experts: In-Depth reports:

[Guest guest]

Hi Bill,

In your Barrettesque paean to the wonders of modern science you left out a few details:

ADHD, AIDS, Allergies, Alzheimers, Arthritis, Asthma, Atherosclerosis, Autism, Cancer, Candidiasis, Cataracts, Chronic Cystitis, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Colitis, Crohn's Disease, Diabetes, Eczema, Endometriosis, Fibromyalgia, Gallstones, GERD, Glaucoma, Heartburn, Hiatus Hernia, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Kidney Stones, Leaky Gut Syndrome, Lupus, Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, Multiple Sclerosis, Parkinson's Disease, Psoriasis, Thrush, Ulcers, Yeast Infections etc.

Oh what fun it is to swim in this polluted sea of toxic chemicals.

BTW I've heard from reliable sources that your friend Barrett was behind the arrest of Dr. . Care to comment?

[Guest guest]

Dear Jan, I think Bill Ross has inserted himself into this forum as a

Quackbuster and not really to learn although that seems to be his message.

I plan to have no communication with him. It's one thing to attempt to

learn, it's another to use 'our collective' time when Quackbusting is his

game.

Re: Cult Leaders

>From: JDrew63929@...

>

>

>

><< Bill Ross wrote:

>

> > You can read what I'm talking about by going to:

> > http://www..ch/cancer/canc_frame.htm

>

> " click " on where it says, " you may not have time "

>

>

>Read carefully Bill. After you have stopped the cancer you can turn your

>attention to getting well. NO WHERE does she ever say.........stop the

>cancer....Walla....you are cured.

>

>Jan

>

>

>

> Sorry I left that out of my previous post. >>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>

[Guest guest]

JDrew63929@... wrote:

>

> Bill,

>

> I thought you had read her books?

Jan, I bought " The Cure For All Cancers " and read parts of it. At the very

beginning that book says,

" you may not have time, " and on that same page it says that " after curing your

cancer with this recipe it

cannot come back. " I took this to mean what it says, " it cannot come back. " I

should have known it is

likely marketing terminology to sell the book. I also read through many of the

case studies. They were

not convincing to me. After Dr. 's arrest, I donated the book to Dr.

Barrett of Quackwatch. Later

he posted a review of the book on his website.

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/clark.html

This review has influenced my opinion of Dr. . If this review has lies or

distortions in it, I would

appreciate having them pointed out to me. I think Dr. Barrett's analysis of the

50 case studies is

particularly compelling. And Dr. Barrett is not what one would consider, in the

traditional sense, a

" friend " of mine, as someone else suggested. I've only had email contact with

him, and have never met

him. I've had significant in person interaction with Dr. 's supporters,

and much more in depth

exchange of opinion with them as well.

(end of first portion of my reply)

> Yes she does say it can be stopped quickly,

> but she sure doesn't stop there. First you must rid your body of the

> parasites. Then you move on to rid your body of the toxins. Just as with the

> dental work, get rid of the metal, then start on ridding the body of the

> mercury. This takes a long time. If you return to all the polluted products

> you are defeating the whole purpose. What I notice here is that you are much

> like all the debunkers on the health newsgroups. Many of these questions can

> be answered.........by just reading the books. Stopping the disease is just

> that..........stopping..........next it's on to the dental work, the toxins,

> the pollutions, etc. You seem to be thinking in terms of conventional

> medicine. A trip to the ER for a quick fix..........does you MD ever tell you

> what to do next?? To keep the problem from returning?? Or find what caused

> it in the first place??

Jan, M.D.s do often attempt to give such advice. They try to get smokers to

stop for instance, and obese

people to lose weight. Conventional medicine often advises the public on what

to do to try and minimize

the causes of disease and disease recurrence. Most people don't seem to take it

to heart, and then end up

in the ER hoping for a quick fix. Faced with an uncooperating public,

physicians do what they can to try

and " fix " people. They do not advise people of the things Dr. mentions

quite often, but in some

cases I think they do (avoid toxins, eat healthier).

Thank you for considering my opinions and concerns,

Bill

[Guest guest]

Counts wrote:

> BTW I've heard from reliable sources that your friend Barrett

> was behind the arrest of Dr. . Care to comment? , Please

> share who your reliable sources are that make this accusation.

> Shadowing accusations are not very reliable. Would it be Tim Bolen by

> any chance? My source, The Hoosier Times, on October 13 of last year

> stated, " the FBI was investigating a complaint from the family of a

> woman who had died from breast cancer after being treated at 's

> Mexico clinic. " That's about all I know of what triggered the arrest

> last year.

>

> Bill Ross

[Guest guest]

" R. Eaton" wrote:

You actually

listen to the words of Dr. Quack? Take a word of wisdom. Why

don't you research Dr. Quack's ( Barret's ) background before accepting

anything he says. He is not very well respected among his peers.

He has very little moral fiber. I am all for solid research and solid

theory, the scientific way. He should have become a politician.

, Please tell me what you

know about Dr. Barrett, that I don't. I'm willing to listen and investigate.

But in addition to attacking the man, can you find any fault in what he

says about the substance of Dr. 's cancer claims? I imagine

you've heard the expression about "killing the messenger when you don't

like the message."

Bill Ross

[Guest guest]

Bill,

I can't reveal my source, but this quote from Tim Bolen might clarify

things.

If you say you know nothing about it, I'll take your word. I just thought

you might know something.

Regards,

A dubious self-proclaimed consumer organization, billing itself as The

National Council Against Health Fraud (NCAHF), and egotistically

nick-naming itself " The Quackbusters, " is believed to have a major influence

in the harassment of health humanitarian ,

and others. The NCAHF, current operation seems to be run by one Stephan

Barrett, a de-licensed M.D., out of his basement in town, PA. The

" quackbusters " have long positioned itself as an authority, without

substantiation, on " health fraud. " They are known to accuse, virtually,

every well known non-drug leading-edge health practitioner in America,

including two-time Nobel prize winning Linus ing, of " quackery. "

Although leading-edge health professionals scoff at the opinions of the

NCAHF, Barrett, and his minions, falsely give the impression to

law-enforcement agencies that they have some standing in the medical

community. They neglect to mention, for instance, that they, as an

organization, were evicted from Loma University in California, and

ordered to no longer use Loma 's name connected with their bizarre

operation. Critics, who helped get the NCAHF removed from the campus, say

that the quackbusters used the address to give themselves an unwarranted

academic credibility. The NCAHF, and its companion organizations, are

exposed in Doctor , MD, Dr Ph,'s exciting, well-written, and

informative book, " Racketeering in Medicine. " The only thing didn't

tell us is

" who's funding these people? " Personally, I think its going to take a series

of search warrants, and a grand jury

investigation to find out.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/12/2000 10:33:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,

rossviva@... writes:

<< They try to get smokers to stop for instance, and obese

people to lose weight. >>

Why arent they spending some of that hard earned money to lobby the outlawing

of cigarettes?

Cigarettes are the most addicting thing I know of. Go ahead, tell someone to

stop. Do you have statistics backing the MDs success rate for this? " Go on a

diet? " You funny guy. Haha. You forgot to mention the diseases ravishing our

LIVERS, even as the MD tells us we are in great health. They don't tell their

patients about their livers or even their bowels for that matter. Thank you

Dr. .

" Faced with an uncooperating public, physicians do what they can to try

and " fix " people. "

Is that how they feel about their patients, uncooperative?

" I confess that I consider

there is some value to some of what Dr. writes. "

Let me guess, your job prevents you from admitting you are wrong altogether?

Bill seems to think he can come here and harass the group in order to prevent

further expansion of the truths we hold to be self-evident. Who do you work

for, Bill? Monsanto? Get a real job. Maybe you know and can tell us what the

long term affects of the genetically altered crops will have on my childrens

planet?

Foggs, a member of the Boycot Bill Campaign.

[Guest guest]

Yes, well, you see, if we can get past the genetics, we could move on to the

parasites. I feel the parasites are dwelling in places they normally

wouldn't, likely due to the chemical war we have waged on their environment

or our bodies, etc....It wasn't hard for me to accept that the toxins I had

always deemed as necessary were killing me. It was, however, hard to get rid

of them all. It isn't hard to take the herbs for the cleanses, it's far

harder to envision my own organs being infested with the effects of

pollutants. Some people just have a hard time accepting these things. They

fear the unknown. We take for granted that our MD's would not harm us,

because we cannot actually see the toxins, prescriptions and parasites

killing our inner cells. Once I accepted that all technological chemical

advances were harmful to my health, it was easy to make sure we weren't

getting polluted daily or hourly. It really is a matter of common sense. " Is

this man-made or nature-made? " That's what I found myself asking.

I find it hard to go visiting for meals, as most people are offended when we

turn down their processed meals. I absolutely cannot risk the health of my

family so as not to offend another's beliefs. After all, my job is to provide

a safe learning environment for my children, not a cornucopia of sugar,

caffeine, solvents, and Mcs.

My children of all ages take parasite cleanses and drink herbal teas with

knowledge of what they're doing and why their doing it. We all feel very

fortunate to have this information and plan to use it for the rest of our

lives.

After having 3 family members diagnosed with cancer in the past 2 years, one

of which got it twice after chemo, I am very aware of the alarming growing

rate of cancers. Unfortunately, none of them chose alternative therapies and

feel the prognosis is death, and are leaving it up to their physicians. One

said to me " I would never put an herb in my body. " No, but they are putting

chemotherapy drugs directly into their veins? These are the chemicals the

nurses are warned could kill them.........People fear the unknown, fearing

herbs due to customs passed down by the new world. Women who used herbs were

called witches and were killed, sacrificed, maimed, drowned, hunted, or

whatever, by the white man. No wonder we are so unaware of the benefits of

these plants growing naturally from the soil of the earth. They have been

used by all peoples for thousands of years. We have feared them for hundreds

of years. Scientists break down the properties of these plant matters and

synthetically produce similar but toxic products called prescription drugs.

So why all the fuss? Well, if you take an herb and are cured, then

pharmaceuticals, doctors, drug stores, etc., would not reap the benefits of

your sicknesses. They would go broke.

For some, these truths take time to accept. It isn't easy to undo what we

have been taught for generations. It isn't easy to accept that these herbs

are harmless, without negative side-effects, and full of nutrients vital to

sustaining life. Just like a vegetable. Personally, they have done things for

myself and my family that I would never have thought possible. A very small

example is not having caught the flu or a cold for many years. There are many

things contributing to this " luck, " all of which are included in the Dr.

protocol; One of my favorites is the vitamin C. It took me awhile to

completely incorporate it into my daily lifestyle, but I now carry a salt

shaker of it in the car for dining out and have an old fashioned sugar-shaker

(with a plastic lid) for home. It takes time to change our way of thinking

and doing.

As for the bleach I always thought I needed, you couldn't make me go in the

same room with it now. It got to the point where I would get delirious and

have the effects for three days, not knowing really why.

It is an honor to have the wisdom of Hulda , as we will be needing it

forever. I look forward to my life journey every day. THANK YOU HULDA. FOGGS