Hello

[Guest guest]

Barbara,

You wrote:

>

>

>

> I went from having a functioning thyroid, to one that's not functioning

> at all. After reading that a problem with the pituitary gland is one

> cause of a non-functioning thyroid, I'm wondering if I should have

> tests done on the pituitary gland....

>

That is much rarer than thyroid failure, so the usual approach is to

treat the thyroid first. If a reasonable dose of T4 or T4/T3 still

leaves you with a high TSH and hypoT symptoms, then you can consider a

hyperactive pituitary. However, far and away the most likely cause of

hypoT symptoms combined with high TSH is simple thyroid failure, most

often due to the autoimmune condition known as Hashimoto's thyroiditis.

Pituitary malfunctions often involve other axes besides the thyroid. You

would have other symptoms.

What is a reasonable dose? If you don't have a cardiac condition, the

literature suggests that it is safe to jump to a dose that is close to

full replacement and then adjust. Most doctors are still a bit more

cautious than this, especially in Europe. My doctor (US) started me at

75 mcg for a TSH in single digits. My son started at 50 mcg, but he was

recovering from two heart valve replacements and a bypass. I am now at

137 and he is at 200 mcg. So, I think your 25 mcg is probably unusually

cautious, unless your TSH is not very high. If it is above the old

reference range of 5.5, you should request a new test as soon as your

doctor will allow it. There is a small-increment protocol that I believe

tests every four weeks. There is also one that simply increases the dose

every two weeks without testing. That may be what he is doing.

Whatever the explanation, you won't start feeling well until the dose

starts getting close to what you actually need.

Please include lab reference ranges for any test results.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for your reply Chuck. Sorry to seem dumb, but what

is TSH? I understand it's part of the blood profile, but have no idea

what it means. Since I don't have a heart condition, 25 mcg seems like

quite a low dose based on what you wrote. I'm in the US so dosage

could be different here? Also, it might be based on weight, and I am

barely over 110 pounds.

Barbara

Most doctors are still a bit more

cautious than this, especially in Europe. My doctor (US) started me at

75 mcg for a TSH in single digits. My son started at 50 mcg, but he was

recovering from two heart valve replacements and a bypass. I am now at

137 and he is at 200 mcg. So, I think your 25 mcg is probably unusually

cautious, unless your TSH is not very high.

Re: Re:Hello

Barbara,

You wrote:

>

>

>

> I went from having a functioning thyroid, to one that's not

functioning

> at all. After reading that a problem with the pituitary gland is one

> cause of a non-functioning thyroid, I'm wondering if I should have

> tests done on the pituitary gland....

>

That is much rarer than thyroid failure, so the usual approach is to

treat the thyroid first. If a reasonable dose of T4 or T4/T3 still

leaves you with a high TSH and hypoT symptoms, then you can consider a

hyperactive pituitary. However, far and away the most likely cause of

hypoT symptoms combined with high TSH is simple thyroid failure, most

often due to the autoimmune condition known as Hashimoto's thyroiditis.

Pituitary malfunctions often involve other axes besides the thyroid.

You

would have other symptoms.

What is a reasonable dose? If you don't have a cardiac condition, the

literature suggests that it is safe to jump to a dose that is close to

full replacement and then adjust. Most doctors are still a bit more

cautious than this, especially in Europe. My doctor (US) started me at

75 mcg for a TSH in single digits. My son started at 50 mcg, but he was

recovering from two heart valve replacements and a bypass. I am now at

137 and he is at 200 mcg. So, I think your 25 mcg is probably unusually

cautious, unless your TSH is not very high. If it is above the old

reference range of 5.5, you should request a new test as soon as your

doctor will allow it. There is a small-increment protocol that I

believe

tests every four weeks. There is also one that simply increases the

dose

every two weeks without testing. That may be what he is doing.

Whatever the explanation, you won't start feeling well until the dose

starts getting close to what you actually need.

Please include lab reference ranges for any test results.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

That's good. By the way, thyroid treatment is not drugs it's hormones

that the body needs in order to work. If  you take the natural

dessicated hormones Naturethroid or Armour, they are made from natural

sources for the most part, except for the fillers.

<>Roni

Thank you Roni. I will consider this and ask the doctor about it. If

it would work for my case, I would much rather take natural hormones

than drugs.

Hello

hypothyroidism

Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 4:37 PM

I am glad to find this group and hope it will give me some insight into

my problem.  I have been to so many doctors, had an MRI back in 2006

which showed full function, yet things kept getting worse. I had

originally believed I had Candida, which turned out to be true.  At the

time, I didn't have all of the symptoms of hypothyroidism.  But it was

a process.

For me, the road to this disease followed this path:

(1) Consuming large amounts of soy for 14 years, until

(2) In 2004, my daughter died of leukemia

(3) Menopause began in 2003

(4) Physical stress from distance cycling from 2003 until 2007 - all of

this was done while I was having an increase in symptoms, pulling my

system down more.

I have eaten a vegetarian diet for 20 years, just adding fish last year

at the advice of an herbalist practitioner.

I started having weight gain last year, along with dry skin, dry hair,

loss of hair, decreased libido, horribly aching joints, etc.  I have

not had a problem with weight until now.  I am usually around 135lbs,

now I am at 153 lbs, which affects my self esteem and mood.

I use good supplements and participate in moderate walking about 5

times per week.

I am now being treated with homeopathic remedies since about 4 weeks

ago.  I want to avoid drugs as I do not like the side effects - I have

seen this in other people.  You know, sometimes the cure is worse than

the disease! I have no other health problems:  my heart is great, bones

great, no blood pressure problems, etc.  By the way, I am almost 53

years old.

I plan to try Maca, will resume using nutritional yeast (I used it

several years ago when I was a vegan), and monitor my B-vitamins and

others more closely.  I have read on many other websites that people

with Hypo should avoid peanuts, soy, and root veggies.  I read that

almond butter is okay.

Well, that's my story.  Will enjoy becoming part of the group.

Loren C.

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Barbara,

You wrote:

>

>

> Thank you so much for your reply Chuck. Sorry to seem dumb, but what

> is TSH?...

>

Thyroid Stimulating Hormone. This is the medically preferred indicator

of hypoT. It is the hormone generated by the pituitary to signal the

thyroid gland to produce T4 and T3, the essential hormones that control

your metabolism. If TSH is high, it indicates that T3 is too low, so you

would be hypoT. If TSH is too low, as it is in Grave's disease, you

would be hyperT. When TSH is just right, they say you are " euthyroid. "

Ask your doctor for your blood tests. These belong to you, although you

might also want to ask for an explanation.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Thanks again Chuck. So if the pituitary gland sends TSH to stimulate

the thyroid, if that number is good wouldn't it indicate the pituitary

is okay? Is TSH always a part of a thyroid blood profile? I will ask

the doctor for the blood tests. I've read that it's hard to keep the

good LDL cholesterol up if the thyroid isn't functioning, and that

since the thyroid controls metabolism it can throw lots of numbers off.

Maybe he doesn't want me to see it until the medication has had a

chance to take effect. This is upsetting, because my numbers all used

to be great, cholesterol, blood glucose, and whatever else they check

for. It was such a shock, and today a soldier was killed on the base

where my son is in Iraq. My son is okay, but some family is receiving

very bad news. The combat troops have left, but violence is increasing.

I have a few more questions if you don't mind. When taking medication

which gets the thyroid numbers back where they belong, is one at risk

for other problems or diseases like diabetics are? Is there a bad

effect on the kidneys or liver from the medication? Also, is a person

with this condition at greather risk when having elective or emergency

surgery?

I appreciate you help so much! Isn't technology amazing? I don't know

you or where you are, but you have been more helpful than I could have

imagined.

Barbara

Thyroid Stimulating Hormone

Re: Re:Hello

Barbara,

You wrote:

>

>

> Thank you so much for your reply Chuck. Sorry to seem dumb, but what

> is TSH?...

>

Thyroid Stimulating Hormone. This is the medically preferred indicator

of hypoT. It is the hormone generated by the pituitary to signal the

thyroid gland to produce T4 and T3, the essential hormones that control

your metabolism. If TSH is high, it indicates that T3 is too low, so

you

would be hypoT. If TSH is too low, as it is in Grave's disease, you

would be hyperT. When TSH is just right, they say you are " euthyroid. "

Ask your doctor for your blood tests. These belong to you, although you

might also want to ask for an explanation.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Roni,

Oops! I just sent another message and called it medication again. I

know there are natural remedies, but I guess you're saying Levothyroxin

is a synthetic hormone?

Barbara

Hello

hypothyroidism

Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 4:37 PM

I am glad to find this group and hope it will give me some insight into

my problem.  I have been to so many doctors, had an MRI back in 2006

which showed full function, yet things kept getting worse. I had

originally believed I had Candida, which turned out to be true.  At the

time, I didn't have all of the symptoms of hypothyroidism.  But it was

a process.

For me, the road to this disease followed this path:

(1) Consuming large amounts of soy for 14 years, until

(2) In 2004, my daughter died of leukemia

(3) Menopause began in 2003

(4) Physical stress from distance cycling from 2003 until 2007 - all of

this was done while I was having an increase in symptoms, pulling my

system down more.

I have eaten a vegetarian diet for 20 years, just adding fish last year

at the advice of an herbalist practitioner.

I started having weight gain last year, along with dry skin, dry hair,

loss of hair, decreased libido, horribly aching joints, etc.  I have

not had a problem with weight until now.  I am usually around 135lbs,

now I am at 153 lbs, which affects my self esteem and mood.

I use good supplements and participate in moderate walking about 5

times per week.

I am now being treated with homeopathic remedies since about 4 weeks

ago.  I want to avoid drugs as I do not like the side effects - I have

seen this in other people.  You know, sometimes the cure is worse than

the disease! I have no other health problems:  my heart is great, bones

great, no blood pressure problems, etc.  By the way, I am almost 53

years old.

I plan to try Maca, will resume using nutritional yeast (I used it

several years ago when I was a vegan), and monitor my B-vitamins and

others more closely.  I have read on many other websites that people

with Hypo should avoid peanuts, soy, and root veggies.  I read that

almond butter is okay.

Well, that's my story.  Will enjoy becoming part of the group.

Loren C.

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Correction to Chuck: I appreciate your help, not you help. I'm sure

you knew what I meant. Anyway, I'm very grateful.

Barbara

Re: Re:Hello

Barbara,

You wrote:

>

>

> Thank you so much for your reply Chuck. Sorry to seem dumb, but what

> is TSH?...

>

Thyroid Stimulating Hormone. This is the medically preferred indicator

of hypoT. It is the hormone generated by the pituitary to signal the

thyroid gland to produce T4 and T3, the essential hormones that control

your metabolism. If TSH is high, it indicates that T3 is too low, so

you

would be hypoT. If TSH is too low, as it is in Grave's disease, you

would be hyperT. When TSH is just right, they say you are " euthyroid. "

Ask your doctor for your blood tests. These belong to you, although you

might also want to ask for an explanation.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Yes, levothyroxine, levoxyl, synthroid, etc. all synthetic.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: capsopoulosl <dundeemoosee@...>

Subject: Hello

hypothyroidism

Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 4:37 PM

I am glad to find this group and hope it will give me some insight into

my problem.  I have been to so many doctors, had an MRI back in 2006

which showed full function, yet things kept getting worse. I had

originally believed I had Candida, which turned out to be true.  At the

time, I didn't have all of the symptoms of hypothyroidism.  But it was

a process.

For me, the road to this disease followed this path:

(1) Consuming large amounts of soy for 14 years, until

(2) In 2004, my daughter died of leukemia

(3) Menopause began in 2003

(4) Physical stress from distance cycling from 2003 until 2007 - all of

this was done while I was having an increase in symptoms, pulling my

system down more.

I have eaten a vegetarian diet for 20 years, just adding fish last year

at the advice of an herbalist practitioner.

I started having weight gain last year, along with dry skin, dry hair,

loss of hair, decreased libido, horribly aching joints, etc.  I have

not had a problem with weight until now.  I am usually around 135lbs,

now I am at 153 lbs, which affects my self esteem and mood.

I use good supplements and participate in moderate walking about 5

times per week.

I am now being treated with homeopathic remedies since about 4 weeks

ago.  I want to avoid drugs as I do not like the side effects - I have

seen this in other people.  You know, sometimes the cure is worse than

the disease! I have no other health problems:  my heart is great, bones

great, no blood pressure problems, etc.  By the way, I am almost 53

years old.

I plan to try Maca, will resume using nutritional yeast (I used it

several years ago when I was a vegan), and monitor my B-vitamins and

others more closely.  I have read on many other websites that people

with Hypo should avoid peanuts, soy, and root veggies.  I read that

almond butter is okay.

Well, that's my story.  Will enjoy becoming part of the group.

Loren C.

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Thanks Roni

Yes, levothyroxine, levoxyl, synthroid, etc. all synthetic

Hello

hypothyroidism

Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 4:37 PM

I am glad to find this group and hope it will give me some insight into

my problem.  I have been to so many doctors, had an MRI back in 2006

which showed full function, yet things kept getting worse. I had

originally believed I had Candida, which turned out to be true.  At the

time, I didn't have all of the symptoms of hypothyroidism.  But it was

a process.

For me, the road to this disease followed this path:

(1) Consuming large amounts of soy for 14 years, until

(2) In 2004, my daughter died of leukemia

(3) Menopause began in 2003

(4) Physical stress from distance cycling from 2003 until 2007 - all of

this was done while I was having an increase in symptoms, pulling my

system down more.

I have eaten a vegetarian diet for 20 years, just adding fish last year

at the advice of an herbalist practitioner.

I started having weight gain last year, along with dry skin, dry hair,

loss of hair, decreased libido, horribly aching joints, etc.  I have

not had a problem with weight until now.  I am usually around 135lbs,

now I am at 153 lbs, which affects my self esteem and mood.

I use good supplements and participate in moderate walking about 5

times per week.

I am now being treated with homeopathic remedies since about 4 weeks

ago.  I want to avoid drugs as I do not like the side effects - I have

seen this in other people.  You know, sometimes the cure is worse than

the disease! I have no other health problems:  my heart is great, bones

great, no blood pressure problems, etc.  By the way, I am almost 53

years old.

I plan to try Maca, will resume using nutritional yeast (I used it

several years ago when I was a vegan), and monitor my B-vitamins and

others more closely.  I have read on many other websites that people

with Hypo should avoid peanuts, soy, and root veggies.  I read that

almond butter is okay.

Well, that's my story.  Will enjoy becoming part of the group.

Loren C.

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

The T4 in Synthroid is bioidentical to that produced by your body, and

to that in Armour. In case that's not clear to you the molecules are

EXACTLY the same.

The advantage of Armour is that it has T3 as well as T4. Your body

normally makes T3 [which is the hormone your body actually uses] from

T4; thus T4 is typically all you need. If you happen to have a T4 to T3

conversion or one of a few other conditions you may benefit from T3.

You can get " synthetic " product with both T3 and T4.

Luck,

..

..

>

> Posted by: " macbarb0503@... " macbarb0503@...

> <mailto:macbarb0503@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Hello>

> westieabbey <westieabbey>

>

>

> Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:43 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

>

>

> That's good. By the way, thyroid treatment is not drugs it's hormones

> that the body needs in order to work. If you take the natural

> dessicated hormones Naturethroid or Armour, they are made from natural

> sources for the most part, except for the fillers.

>

> <>Roni

>

> Thank you Roni. I will consider this and ask the doctor about it. If

> it would work for my case, I would much rather take natural hormones

> than drugs.

>

> Re: Hello

>

> That's good. By the way, thyroid treatment is not drugs it's hormones

> that the body needs in order to work. If you take the natural

> dessicated hormones Naturethroid or Armour, they are made from natural

> sources for the most part, except for the fillers.

>

> <>Roni

[Guest guest]

, I agree that molecularly they are the same, but there is either something

in it

or not in it that makes me sick. The last time they experimented with giving it

to me, I

got sick within a week. The time before that, I got so sick I was sure I was

dying, at least that's how it felt. Something is not compatable with our

chemistry and/or biology with Synthroid and the other T4 chemically produced

hormones. This doesn't mean that everybody is sensitive to the problem, but just

like penicillin, some react badly and some don't.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: Re: Hello

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, August 23, 2010, 10:41 AM

The T4 in Synthroid is bioidentical to that produced by your body, and

to that in Armour.  In case that's not clear to you the molecules are

EXACTLY the same.

The advantage of Armour is that it has T3 as well as T4.  Your body

normally makes T3 [which is the hormone your body actually uses] from

T4; thus T4 is typically all you need.  If you happen to have a T4 to T3

conversion or one of a few other conditions you may benefit from T3. 

You can get " synthetic " product with both T3 and T4.

Luck,

..

..

>

>       Posted by: " macbarb0503@... " macbarb0503@...

>       <mailto:macbarb0503@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Hello>

>       westieabbey <westieabbey>

>

>

>         Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:43 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

>

>

> That's good. By the way, thyroid treatment is not drugs it's hormones

> that the body needs in order to work. If  you take the natural

> dessicated hormones Naturethroid or Armour, they are made from natural

> sources for the most part, except for the fillers.

>

> <>Roni

>

> Thank you Roni. I will consider this and ask the doctor about it. If

> it would work for my case, I would much rather take natural hormones

> than drugs.

>

> Re: Hello

>

> That's good. By the way, thyroid treatment is not drugs it's hormones

> that the body needs in order to work. If  you take the natural

> dessicated hormones Naturethroid or Armour, they are made from natural

> sources for the most part, except for the fillers.

>

> <>Roni

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Barbara,

You wrote:

>

>

> Thanks again Chuck. So if the pituitary gland sends TSH to stimulate

> the thyroid, if that number is good wouldn't it indicate the pituitary

> is okay?

>

It is part of a feedback loop. If the other components are also " good, "

then the pituitary is safe. However, it is possible (although very rare)

for two endocrine components or glands to mess up at the same time, in

which case a good indicator for the TSH may be false. It is much more

common for the TSH to be high, in which case the most common cause is

thyroid insufficiency. However, it could also (very rarely) be a

hyperactive pituitary (due to a tumor) combined with a normal thyroid.

> ... Is TSH always a part of a thyroid blood profile? ...

>

Almost always. Some doctors do not like to use anything else. However,

there are situations where a single indicator may not be valid. That is

why Roni suggested a laundry list of other tests. For most people, if

the TSH leads to a successful treatment, the other tests are not needed.

Most of these folks do not seek further help on discussion lists.

>

> I have a few more questions if you don't mind. When taking medication

> which gets the thyroid numbers back where they belong, is one at risk

> for other problems or diseases like diabetics are?

>

You can have reactions to other ingredients in the meds, but almost all

the risk is associated with a wrong dose, the most common being too little.

> Is there a bad

> effect on the kidneys or liver from the medication? Also, is a person

> with this condition at greather risk when having elective or emergency

> surgery?

>

No and no, unless the dose is wrong, in which case you will have lots of

other indicators.

Glad to be of help.

Chuck

S.E. Kansas

[Guest guest]

macbarb0503@... wrote:

>

>

> Correction to Chuck: I appreciate your help, not you help. I'm sure

> you knew what I meant....

>

Certainly.

I would tend to call a hormone a medication, though, at least a subset.

Whether it comes from an animal source or a test tube, a hormone is

still a chemical you ingest for a beneficial effect. Even if they could

create an artificial gland that would make and inject levothyroxine

directly into your blood exactly as the gland does, it would still be a

medicine.

BTW, the so-called natural form of dessicated pig thyroid has a higher

ratio of T3/T4 than is naturally produced by the thyroid gland. That

coupled with the fact that a much smaller fraction of the T4 in Armour

is absorbed than the T3, it means the " natural " source is mainly a T3

medication. Granted, that is very good for some people, but it is really

unfair to call it " natural " just because the source is an animal. The

synthetic T4 and T3 are identical molecules to what the human (or any

other mammal) gland produces.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Thanks again Chuck in S.E. Kansas! :-)

Barbara

Glad to be of help

Re: Re:Hello

Barbara,

You wrote:

>

>

> Thanks again Chuck. So if the pituitary gland sends TSH to stimulate

> the thyroid, if that number is good wouldn't it indicate the pituitary

> is okay?

>

It is part of a feedback loop. If the other components are also " good, "

then the pituitary is safe. However, it is possible (although very

rare)

for two endocrine components or glands to mess up at the same time, in

which case a good indicator for the TSH may be false. It is much more

common for the TSH to be high, in which case the most common cause is

thyroid insufficiency. However, it could also (very rarely) be a

hyperactive pituitary (due to a tumor) combined with a normal thyroid.

> ... Is TSH always a part of a thyroid blood profile? ...

>

Almost always. Some doctors do not like to use anything else. However,

there are situations where a single indicator may not be valid. That is

why Roni suggested a laundry list of other tests. For most people, if

the TSH leads to a successful treatment, the other tests are not

needed.

Most of these folks do not seek further help on discussion lists.

>

> I have a few more questions if you don't mind. When taking medication

> which gets the thyroid numbers back where they belong, is one at risk

> for other problems or diseases like diabetics are?

>

You can have reactions to other ingredients in the meds, but almost all

the risk is associated with a wrong dose, the most common being too

little.

> Is there a bad

> effect on the kidneys or liver from the medication? Also, is a person

> with this condition at greather risk when having elective or emergency

> surgery?

>

No and no, unless the dose is wrong, in which case you will have lots

of

other indicators.

Glad to be of help.

Chuck

S.E. Kansas

[Guest guest]

Thanks Chuck. I talked with my doctor about this today, and he isn't

in favor of the " natural " hormone. According to him it can causes

other problems, but I didn't ask what they were.

I wish I could be as much help to the people on this forum as you have

been to me. Thanks to all!

Barbara

Granted, that is very good for some people, but it is really

unfair to call it " natural " just because the source is an animal. The

synthetic T4 and T3 are identical molecules to what the human (or any

other mammal) gland produces.

Re: Re:Hello

macbarb0503@... wrote:

>

>

> Correction to Chuck: I appreciate your help, not you help. I'm sure

> you knew what I meant....

>

Certainly.

I would tend to call a hormone a medication, though, at least a subset.

Whether it comes from an animal source or a test tube, a hormone is

still a chemical you ingest for a beneficial effect. Even if they could

create an artificial gland that would make and inject levothyroxine

directly into your blood exactly as the gland does, it would still be a

medicine.

BTW, the so-called natural form of dessicated pig thyroid has a higher

ratio of T3/T4 than is naturally produced by the thyroid gland. That

coupled with the fact that a much smaller fraction of the T4 in Armour

is absorbed than the T3, it means the " natural " source is mainly a T3

medication. Granted, that is very good for some people, but it is

really

unfair to call it " natural " just because the source is an animal. The

synthetic T4 and T3 are identical molecules to what the human (or any

other mammal) gland produces.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Roni Molin wrote:

>

>

> Yes, levothyroxine, levoxyl, synthroid, etc. all synthetic.

>

Levoxyl, Levothroid, Unithroid, Eltroxin, and Synthroid are _brand

names_ for synthetic forms of levothyroxine sodium, often just called

thyroxine or L-thyroxine. However, levothyroxine is also the name for

the hormone molecule itself, which can be either synthetic or natural.

It is the name for what your gland produces and also what circulates in

your blood.

The formal chemical name for it is levo-tetraiodothyronine, abbreviated

as T4. This is the relatively inactive precursor for

levo-triiodothyronine (T3) which has all the desired metabolic effects.

If you take it orally, T4 is turned into T3 mostly in the liver. They

are the same molecule, whether synthesized in a test tube or produced in

a mammalian thyroid gland.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Chuck, molecularly I agree with you, but then what would be the reason that it

makes

me sick every time they try to give it to me?

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

> 

>

> Correction to Chuck: I appreciate your help, not you help. I'm sure

> you knew what I meant....

>

Certainly.

I would tend to call a hormone a medication, though, at least a subset.

Whether it comes from an animal source or a test tube, a hormone is

still a chemical you ingest for a beneficial effect. Even if they could

create an artificial gland that would make and inject levothyroxine

directly into your blood exactly as the gland does, it would still be a

medicine.

BTW, the so-called natural form of dessicated pig thyroid has a higher

ratio of T3/T4 than is naturally produced by the thyroid gland. That

coupled with the fact that a much smaller fraction of the T4 in Armour

is absorbed than the T3, it means the " natural " source is mainly a T3

medication. Granted, that is very good for some people, but it is really

unfair to call it " natural " just because the source is an animal. The

synthetic T4 and T3 are identical molecules to what the human (or any

other mammal) gland produces.

Chuck

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

No argument there, Roni. While the coloring agents, binders and fillers

are chosen to be none-reactive as far as possible it appears to not

always be successful. And we're all different...

My point was that the active ingredient, whether T4 or T3, is

bioidentical in all of the hormone products. So the " natural " T4/T3 has

no inherent advantage over the " synthetic " product.

Regards,

..

..

> Posted by: " Roni Molin " matchermaam@...

> <mailto:matchermaam@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Hello>

> matchermaam <matchermaam>

>

>

> Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:11 am (PDT)

>

>

>

> , I agree that molecularly they are the same, but there is either

> something in it

> or not in it that makes me sick. The last time they experimented with

> giving it to me, I

> got sick within a week. The time before that, I got so sick I was sure

> I was dying, at least that's how it felt. Something is not compatable

> with our chemistry and/or biology with Synthroid and the other T4

> chemically produced hormones. This doesn't mean that everybody is

> sensitive to the problem, but just like penicillin, some react badly

> and some don't.

>

> <>Roni

> Immortality exists!

> It's called knowledge!

>

> Just because something isn't seen

> doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: Hello

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Monday, August 23, 2010, 10:41 AM

>

> The T4 in Synthroid is bioidentical to that produced by your body, and

> to that in Armour. In case that's not clear to you the molecules are

> EXACTLY the same.

>

> The advantage of Armour is that it has T3 as well as T4. Your body

> normally makes T3 [which is the hormone your body actually uses] from

> T4; thus T4 is typically all you need. If you happen to have a T4 to T3

> conversion or one of a few other conditions you may benefit from T3.

> You can get " synthetic " product with both T3 and T4.

>

> Luck,

>

[Guest guest]

Roni Molin wrote:

>

>

> Chuck, molecularly I agree with you, but then what would be the reason

> that it makes

> me sick every time they try to give it to me?

>

You have excess RT3, right? That means a T4 source would cause you

problems whether it is taken orally in any form or injected directly

into your blood by a working thyroid.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

macbarb0503@... wrote:

>

>

> Thanks Chuck. I talked with my doctor about this today, and he isn't

> in favor of the " natural " hormone. According to him it can causes

> other problems, but I didn't ask what they were.

>

You will find doctors on both sides of the fence on this one. The usual

charges against dessicated pig glands are that this form is old

fashioned and uncontrolled in quality and dosage. The rapid action of T3

medications makes careful titration impractical. However, advocates

counter that rapid reaction makes it possible to treat to symptoms,

adjusting dosage as needed, rather than waste time and money on lab

tests. There are good ways to make both approaches work, and much of

the criticism on both sides probably has more to do with marketing than

scientific research.

If you have a good horse, ride him.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Oh, nobody said that before. My last RT3 test read <25. Does this mean that it's

going to disappear totally, or that it's at a safe place right now. Also, does

this mean that I might be able to take some T4 or would that just bring the RT3

back up again?

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

> 

>

> Chuck, molecularly I agree with you, but then what would be the reason

> that it makes

> me sick every time they try to give it to me?

>

You have excess RT3, right? That means a T4 source would cause you

problems whether it is taken orally in any form or injected directly

into your blood by a working thyroid.

Chuck

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Roni Molin wrote:

>

>

> Oh, nobody said that before. My last RT3 test read <25. Does this mean

> that it's going to disappear totally, or that it's at a safe place

> right now. Also, does this mean that I might be able to take some T4

> or would that just bring the RT3 back up again?

>

I would test it very gently. Whatever is causing the RT3 issue may take

awhile to go away. We are all rooting for it to work for you, but don't

jump too far too fast.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I'm actually frightened of trying it right now. Another thing. I renewed

my T3 which I'm taking generic because I have to with my insurance and

pocketbook. I originally had Mylan, last month they changed me to Paddock, and

it seems to be stronger than the Mylan. I'm still not totally stable with my

dose. I'm generally taking 10 mcg less than the Mylan, but I started to get the

pains back again and I went up by 5 and then another 5 and had afib two days in

a row. Now they've given me Mylan again, which I have to wait to take because I

can't afford to waste the pills. Then I'll start the Mylan. I won't start trying

the T4 unless and until I can get stabilized on the T3.

 

Thanks for your advice, I fully intend when I'm ready to do it just as you

suggested. It's made me sick each time they tried it, but I have a feeling they

tried too much too soon.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

> 

>

> Oh, nobody said that before. My last RT3 test read <25. Does this mean

> that it's going to disappear totally, or that it's at a safe place

> right now. Also, does this mean that I might be able to take some T4

> or would that just bring the RT3 back up again?

>

I would test it very gently. Whatever is causing the RT3 issue may take

awhile to go away. We are all rooting for it to work for you, but don't

jump too far too fast.

Chuck

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi Lucky!Welcome to the group... hopefully we can answer all your questions and help you get thru treatment.. That's what we're here for!I went thru 48 weeks of treatment in 2005-2006 and I managed to clear the virus. My walk with treatment was not a pleasant one. Lots of side effects, actually, I had all the side effects, every single one of them. I was in bed for 50 weeks and needed 3 blood transfusions.. I got away with only having 2.The low blood counts is a normal part of treatment.. I'm actually surprised at your doctors response to cut the Interfuron down.. Especially since it's not the Interfuron that's the

big culprit with the blood counts.. it's actually the Ribavirin. How many of those do you take a day? I took 14 200mg pills a day. Way more than most doctors prescribe but my doc was very aggressive. I was also on double the recommended dosage of Interfuron. No wonder I was sick huh? I wouldn't be surprised if your blood counts dropped again. It's pretty normal. The usual recommendation is a transfusion and then pro-crit shots once a week. I was told in advance this would be an issue. My doctor made sure I took care of any and all problems that were making me anemic before I started treatment and I had to be stable and non anemic for 6 months first. In my case, I had to get female issues taken care of. The insomnia is also from the Ribavirin.. Nasty little drug that one is. All I can tell you is to sleep when you can. You will find

that you catch a couple of hours here and there but rarely get a solid 6 or 8 hours at a time. It effects different people differently.. one of our members is sleeping 18 hours a day right now. Most however, have the opposite reaction. As far as telling people... that's your call. Keep in mind that Hep C is transmitted thru blood. It is not transmitted sexually. I would, however, tell people that I was close to or having a relationship with about the virus. Give them the chance to make the decision on whether they want to be exposed. I had a very hard time telling my husband and my son. Now, I have no issues telling people that I had Hep C. When I was going thru treatment, anyone around me knew about it... they had to. I was that sick. There was no hiding it. I was basically in bed for 50 weeks.

Let me know if there is anything I can do to help, any questions you have are okay.. I have no problem answering anything. I am an open book when it comes to my walk with Hep C. Welcome to the group... you have found a soft spot to land. No judgments here.. just help and friendship.Hugs,Teri MOVE ON. It's just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book. Just turn the page.From: lucky2b916 <lucky2b916@...> Sent: Tue, October 12, 2010 8:06:33 PMSubject: [ ] Hello

I'm new to the group. I just re-started treatment two weeks ago. When I first started the treatment the beginning of June, within three weeks all of my blood counts dropped ... my platelet count very low. We waited three months to give everything time to get back to normal. My platelets are still low but manageable. The doctor has suggested using only a half-dose of interferon. I won't return to see him until next week. Right now, I feel OK, unlike before, when I had no energy. My problem now is that I don't sleep well.

Has anyone had similar problems and how do you address them? I am a relatively active person and don't like not feeling well.

Also, what are the protocols for dating non-Hep C people, particularly if you don't expect it to be serious?

Any suggestions for any of the above are appreciated.

Thanks,

Lucky2b

[Guest guest]

leAlways wondered where you got to. 32 weeks - WOW!! Good for youLikely you will have to ask the specialist at the cancer centre about becoming nauseous this late in the game. You will definitely need to ask about your eyes FOR SURE, Very important to report any difference in your eyes.Glad your back - Gloria

Hey everyone, its le! I forgot my password and had to set up a new email address to get in here! I missed you guys!! Hope everyone is doing well. So I have made it to my 32 shot, barley and still going. My blood levels are real low and they are sending me to the cancer center on tuesday ( I dont have cancer ) but I guess the doctor there knows what to do to get them back up. My main complaint today is my eyes, my right eye feels like there is a rash inside there, this has been going on for about a week but its making me crazy. All of a sudden also in the last 2 months I am always trowing up, seems to happen if I eat anything from a chk, eggs mayo and raw fruits and veggies, weird! any advice? Miss all of you and hope everyone is well!!!! Xoxox le