RE: Aspergers versus HFA

[Guest guest]

It could amount to nothing, it's hard to say. But I would have said to them - when they tell me it's no big deal, same services, just a change in classification - so why change it? If it really is no big deal, then why are they changing it. It's not, "why are you arguing against the change because he'll still get everything?" Wrong question! The question is, "Why are you changing his classification if he still gets the same services and it's not a big deal?" They try to make it your problem when it's not.

When something is working, I would argue against changing it unless it is to improve the situation. Also, the answer to their question, "Why argue, it's the same?" is to say, "Because it is important to me that everyone understand he has autism and how this affects his ability to interact with others and to learn. Because autism=autism and he should have the classification that most matches his needs." I know, then you say, "They will still include the medical dx in the IEP." So yeah, I do not get their point at all. Will this opt him out of any special autism programs? Will he be ineligible for social groups because his dx classification is not autism? Are they going to make an autism unit and want to weed out the AS kids so they don't have to provide additional services specifically for HFA/AS? I am like you - wondering what their scoop is. It takes them time and money to change all the paperwork. So I don't think they do that just on a whim. But who knows? Maybe it's on the level and nothing will change?

If it does happen anyway, make sure the PLOP (present levels) are very exact. Make sure the word AS is all over the PLOP. Make sure his behaviors are all over the PLOP. And the last question, about his classification since 18 months old - they would argue it. They might then say, "He's cured." lol. Well, actually, they would say that due to therapy and hard work, he's no longer autistic. That would be difficult to argue as well.

I never had this problem because both my ds's are HFA and the speech delay alone comes in "handy" when determining need for services. But one year I remember, they did my older ds's MFE and the psycho said I had to produce a new report for them that says he is still autistic. I reminded them that autism does not just go away. But oh no - they had to have their paperwork. I told them "Fine" and said they would have to pay for an eval from a doctor if they wanted one so badly or do their own medical eval. Immediately, they switched gears and decided his previous doctor report would still work ok for them. So, seemed like it was about money always. Or about finding ways to confuse us, outlast us, wear us out. lol. When dealing with a bureaucracy, it is so hard to tell the reasons why...

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

RE: ( ) Aspergers versus HFA

Aspergers, HFA, Classic autism, PDD-NOS are all under the autism spectrum. I can see if the child is DXed with autism and the school wants to say aspergers and he/she is still getting the right services " fine ". but my school wants to take my son off the autism spectrum DX and give him " OHI " which would be a Hugh disadvantage to him because the staff won't have a clear understanding of my son's autism with a classification of OHI. They still want to change him from an autism classification to OHI but added a medical DX of autism. What sense does that make and why ? how does that benefit the school by changing my son's classification from autism to now OHI ?

Rose

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[Guest guest]

Yes, I am............You knew that, Roxanna! You did not process my 'discharge' from the siteand lol.

I have been busy, but I love our new home; it beats everything about our old one, and the services are great.

I am on the way to a horse event for special needs kiddos; they have a program just for our AS kids this summer, and today is the

last day, and I have to go to a program for it, so I best go so I am not late.

More later.

Ruthie

From: madideas@...Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:43:15 -0400Subject: Re: ( ) Aspergers versus HFA

Ruthie! You are still there!

I'm glad you moved and have a better school. We had to get a lawyer a few times. The first time, after the first two meetings, my lawyer told them all that this was the worst school team she had ever had to deal with. I think she meant for them to be ashamed by of course, I think it just inspired them. lol. They lied constantly and stretched things out into various shapes - ugh. It was a mess.

Yes, it cost a fortune. We did get what we needed in the end, but not before they made us spend a fortune in atty fees first. One day my dh screamed at them all, "I don't care if I have to dig ditches to pay for this. We are not giving up!" Magically, the next meeting went so much better and the games stopped. I think they were at the end of their tricks by then anyway. But I think they also realized we were not going away too. Since we had documentation on our side, it should have been easier to get what our ds needed really. I think we started out too nice. But oh well, hindsight...

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

( ) Re: PDD-NOS being re-named?

,I have the same question as you: what is the difference between AS and HFA. My son has been refferred to as both so I just assummed they were the same thing??????? > > >> > Thanks for that info. I find it very interesting in that my Aspie son> > fits into this criteria, especially the sensory stuff, but he has no> > speech delay, although he has trouble with communicating his thoughts> > sometimes and is very bright.> >> > I suspect, that this "new" diagnostic criteria is to create a label> > for spectrum kids that clearly have issues, but are not "classic> > autism". Notice the line "A diagnosis can tell you what your child> > does not have." I notice that the article makes it very clear> > that "MSDD" will not be considered "autism" or even a "spectrum> > disorder". So the trend to list ADD/ADHD, Sensory Processing,> > apraxia, non verbal learning disorder, etc. etc. as part of spectrum> > disorders will cease to increase the autism numbers. Never mind that> > all those issues are rampant in our kids, and certainly were NOT> > 20,30 years ago or more.> >> > I also think that will be very convenient for the government, NIH,> > CDC, FDA, and medical establishment such as AAP, AMA to refute the> > increase in spectrum disorders in the past 20 years and the autism> > epidemic.> >> > I don't care what NIH calls it - I want them to address the many> > causes and how to help our kids get better, and make sure this> > epidemic stops.> >> >> > > I was reading on the medline/NIH website today at work and did a> > > search on PDD-NOS. The results gave a site called dbpeds.org, which> > > is developmental and behavioral pediatrics online. Apparently PDD-> > NOS> > > is going to be re-named to "multisystem developmental disorder".> > > There was a great handout in PDF form that described my son> > perfectly.> > >> > > Anyone else ever heard of this? Here is the pamphlet's text.> > >> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder> > > by Henry L Shapiro MD> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder (MSDD) is one of the newer terms> > to> > > describe a group> > > of children with communication, social, and sensory processing> > > problems who do not fit into> > > other categories such as autism. MSDD is usually diagnosed in early> > > childhood.> > > Abnormal reaction to sounds, smells, textures, movement,> > temperature,> > > and other> > > body sensations> > > Disturbed behavior that seems more related to unpleasant experiences> > > than lack of> > > interest in participating> > > Some impairment in communication development> > > Relatively normal interest in communicating and interacting socially> > > when they are> > > not reacting to their environment> > > Varying amounts of attention and organization problems> > > Varying amounts of coordination problems or clumsiness> > > Varying amounts of problems regulating sleep, activity, and appetite> > > These problems must interfere significantly with everyday life, and> > > interfere with normal> > > development to warrant a diagnosis.> > > MSDD is thought to differ from autism in several ways. First,> > children> > > with MSDD tend to> > > respond to treatment better than children with autism. They are less> > > likely to have severe> > > delays in mental ability, and less likely to have severe rituals or> > > repetitive behaviors. Still,> > > these diagnoses are hard to tell apart in young children since> > > children with both diagnoses,> > > Autism and MSDD, may have similar behavior problems.> > > Emotional outbursts or "meltdowns"> > > Refusal to eat certain foods> > > Insistence on wearing certain clothing, or not liking clothing at> > all> > > Extreme reactions to noise or movement> > > Avoidance of sensory experiences or seeking out extreme sensory> > experience> > > Abnormal reaction to pain> > > Sleep disturbance> > > Avoidance or lack of pleasure in being touched or cuddled in spite> > of> > > interest in> > > being with you socially> > > Refusal to have hair washed, touched, combed, cut, etc.> > > Toe walking. Refusal to walk on certain surfaces (such as walking on> > > grass in bare> > > feet)> > > Like many childhood developmental problems, we have few specific> > > treatments or cures.> > > Most of our treatment is meant to help a child work around a> > problem,> > > or to guide them into> > > learning or discovering skills that they are not mastering on their> > own.> > > What kind of problems do children with MSDD have?> > > Is it MSDD or Autism?> > > What behaviors are seen in MSDD?> > > How do we treat MSDD?> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder Page 1> > > Reprinted from dbpeds.org on 8/8/2008. © All rights reserved> > > Sensory Integration therapy is often a mainstay of treatment. It> > tries> > > to help a child> > > overcome their extreme sensitivity and reaction to their sensory> > > experiences. Sensory> > > Integration therapy is targeted at problems related to sensation.> > > These include problems> > > with touch, body position, movement, sound, food textures, and so> > > forth. Techniques may> > > involve deep pressure, brushing, and swinging. We do not know how> > > these treatments work> > > but often they can be helpful.> > > Speech and Language therapy is also an important part of the> > equation.> > > Sometimes,> > > therapy has to be aimed at social and pragmatic problems. A home> > > program is crucial, since> > > children need to practice skills throughout the day. A therapist> > > should be sharing goals and> > > techniques with parents and teachers. There are many handouts on> > this> > > website that can> > > help.> > > Behavior specialists can also be helpful in helping parents choose> > > goals and learn> > > techniques to teach appropriate behaviors and eliminate problem> > > behaviors. In general,> > > psychotherapy for the child is not effective for MSDD.> > > Medications can help in certain cases, but medication is not> > curative> > > Potential side effects> > > and treatment benefit have to be weighed carefully.> > > It is important to be an advocate for your child. Make sure that you> > > and the doctor are very> > > clear about the goals of treatment, including when you are going to> > > stop or change> > > treatment.> > > Children often have to be given diagnoses to get services. Sometimes> > > the diagnosis also> > > helps guide treatment. It may predict how the child may do in the> > > future. A diagnosis can> > > also tell you what your child does not have.> > > The MSDD diagnosis is getting better known, and is now being taught> > in> > > early childhood> > > special education courses. Some clinicians will still diagnose> > autism,> > > pervasive> > > developmental disorder, developmental delay, and language> > impairment.> > > Sensory> > > integration disorder is also diagnosed.> > > The most important thing is to understand your child's needs and> > > strengths, to set goals,> > > monitor progress, and make changes when things are not working.> > > First published: 5/27/2004> > > References> > > Zero to Three Diagnostic Classification Task Force. (1994).> > Diagnostic> > > Classification> > > of Mental Health and Developmental Disorders of Infancy and Early> > > Childhood> > > (DC:0-3)™. Zero to Three. ISBN: 0943-657-32- 6> > > Advocacy> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder Page 2> > > Reprinted from dbpeds.org on 8/8/2008. © All rights reserved> > >> >>

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[Guest guest]

>

> It could amount to nothing, it's hard to say. But I would have said

to them - when they tell me it's no big deal, same services, just a

change in classification - so why change it?

This is what I'm trying to stress too. Rose, you need to make them

give you a concrete reason as to why they want to change his

classification. Telling you nothing will change is not an answer to

" why " . If they are changing it due to changed needs, then they need

to document what needs have changed and specify what data they are

basing that change on. Honestly, I would plant myself in the

principal's office and refuse to budge until he/she answers you or

arrangements have been made for the written reply to happen. Be nice

about it so they can't fault you, but be firm. This is based on how

things work in our state/school district. In our school district, it

is the principal that heads the IEP teams. The appropriate person may

be different in your area.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

I agree with Roxanna...it most likely has to do with money....why not contact the state...maybe the school has to account for too many children with special needs...there is something there but the school is not telling you. Do you know any one who works in the district that you can ask. I am sure there is more to this then they are telling you.

And if nothing changes with this new classification tell them you will NOT accept the new classification for your son. It is your right...you have more rights than the school and they just don't want you to know that!

Jan

PS What state do you live in????

Janice Rushen

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My guess is that they do not plan to spend much money on services for your ds. So changing his classification makes it look good on paper for them. If they have a child with autism on paper, they have to show that the services are being provided that match that dx. How could they get funding for someone with autism but provide no services to that child? Or provide only speech? It might be causing them problems.

Otherwise, I don't know what the problem could be aside from money. It's usually always money.

Sometimes a person will screw around with you just for her/his own amusement. But in the end, it's money.

I would ask them directly - if we all agree he has a medical dx of autism, then why change his classification? Shouldn't it be the most accurate classification? Autism matches autism. If they say he is not classically autistic, then I would ask to see the exact paperwork detailing what the autism classification requirements are exactly. If he has AS, then he will meet the classification definition. The only "problem" will be in severity of those problems. And that is open to interpretation, IMO, and could be argued.

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

RE: ( ) Aspergers versus HFA

Aspergers, HFA, Classic autism, PDD-NOS are all under the autism spectrum. I can see if the child is DXed with autism and the school wants to say aspergers and he/she is still getting the right services " fine ". but my school wants to take my son off the autism spectrum DX and give him " OHI " which would be a Hugh disadvantage to him because the staff won't have a clear understanding of my son's autism with a classification of OHI. They still want to change him from an autism classification to OHI but added a medical DX of autism. What sense does that make and why ? how does that benefit the school by changing my son's classification from autism to now OHI ?

Rose

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[Guest guest]

Oh I agree 100%....and it is so hard to get all the assignments...even when it is written in their IEP.....I was already told...the teachers just don't have the time for him. uGh!

Janice Rushen

Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

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>> My son was dx Aspergers Syndrome and on his paperwork they putAutism....and looked� at me as if I would be in shock or whatever...I think they did this because, in the school definition, all PDDs are"coded" autism. At least that is how our state is (Texas). They arevery explicit that "autism" includes the entire spectrum. My son wascoded autism also for his 504 Plan. They also looked at me and pausedand asked if it was okay. I'm not sure what they would have done ifI'd said I minded. I guess I'll never know. I think some states are different though.Ruth

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[Guest guest]

Well, I guess I live in a great district.....I had to battle but no where near what you went thru...and so far I have gotten what my son needs. I feel terrible for all that you went thru...I just can't beleive it! I guess there is a blessing to living in PA.

jan

Janice Rushen

Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist

Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt,

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Student, Believer, and Giver.

At one time it was thought by many experts that they were different – HFA had language delay while Aspergers did not. Today most experts believe there is no difference. In fact, I just read an article on Tony Attwood’s site in which he says there is no difference; within the last year or so I read an article on his site that said they were different (for the reason I stated above).

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of ginaSent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 6:46 PM Subject: ( ) Re: PDD-NOS being re-named?

,I have the same question as you: what is the difference between AS and HFA. My son has been refferred to as both so I just assummed they were the same thing??????? > > >> > Thanks for that info. I find it very interesting in that my Aspie son> > fits into this criteria, especially the sensory stuff, but he has no> > speech delay, although he has trouble with communicating his thoughts> > sometimes and is very bright.> >> > I suspect, that this "new" diagnostic criteria is to create a label> > for spectrum kids that clearly have issues, but are not "classic> > autism". Notice the line "A diagnosis can tell you what your child> > does not

have." I notice that the article makes it very clear> > that "MSDD" will not be considered "autism" or even a "spectrum> > disorder". So the trend to list ADD/ADHD, Sensory Processing,> > apraxia, non verbal learning disorder, etc. etc. as part of spectrum> > disorders will cease to increase the autism numbers. Never mind that> > all those issues are rampant in our kids, and certainly were NOT> > 20,30 years ago or more.> >> > I also think that will be very convenient for the government, NIH,> > CDC, FDA, and medical establishment such as AAP, AMA to refute the> > increase in spectrum disorders in the past 20 years and the autism> > epidemic.> >> > I don't care what NIH calls it - I want them to address the many> > causes and how to help our kids get better, and make sure this> > epidemic

stops.> >> >> > > I was reading on the medline/NIH website today at work and did a> > > search on PDD-NOS. The results gave a site called dbpeds.org, which> > > is developmental and behavioral pediatrics online. Apparently PDD-> > NOS> > > is going to be re-named to "multisystem developmental disorder".> > > There was a great handout in PDF form that described my son> > perfectly.> > >> > > Anyone else ever heard of this? Here is the pamphlet's text.> > >> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder> > > by Henry L Shapiro MD> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder (MSDD) is one of the newer terms> > to> > > describe a group> > > of children with communication, social, and sensory processing> > > problems who do

not fit into> > > other categories such as autism. MSDD is usually diagnosed in early> > > childhood.> > > Abnormal reaction to sounds, smells, textures, movement,> > temperature,> > > and other> > > body sensations> > > Disturbed behavior that seems more related to unpleasant experiences> > > than lack of> > > interest in participating> > > Some impairment in communication development> > > Relatively normal interest in communicating and interacting socially> > > when they are> > > not reacting to their environment> > > Varying amounts of attention and organization problems> > > Varying amounts of coordination problems or clumsiness> > > Varying amounts of problems regulating sleep, activity, and appetite> > > These

problems must interfere significantly with everyday life, and> > > interfere with normal> > > development to warrant a diagnosis.> > > MSDD is thought to differ from autism in several ways. First,> > children> > > with MSDD tend to> > > respond to treatment better than children with autism. They are less> > > likely to have severe> > > delays in mental ability, and less likely to have severe rituals or> > > repetitive behaviors. Still,> > > these diagnoses are hard to tell apart in young children since> > > children with both diagnoses,> > > Autism and MSDD, may have similar behavior problems.> > > Emotional outbursts or "meltdowns"> > > Refusal to eat certain foods> > > Insistence on wearing certain clothing, or not liking clothing at> >

all> > > Extreme reactions to noise or movement> > > Avoidance of sensory experiences or seeking out extreme sensory> > experience> > > Abnormal reaction to pain> > > Sleep disturbance> > > Avoidance or lack of pleasure in being touched or cuddled in spite> > of> > > interest in> > > being with you socially> > > Refusal to have hair washed, touched, combed, cut, etc.> > > Toe walking. Refusal to walk on certain surfaces (such as walking on> > > grass in bare> > > feet)> > > Like many childhood developmental problems, we have few specific> > > treatments or cures.> > > Most of our treatment is meant to help a child work around a> > problem,> > > or to guide them into> > > learning or discovering skills that they

are not mastering on their> > own.> > > What kind of problems do children with MSDD have?> > > Is it MSDD or Autism?> > > What behaviors are seen in MSDD?> > > How do we treat MSDD?> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder Page 1> > > Reprinted from dbpeds.org on 8/8/2008. © All rights reserved> > > Sensory Integration therapy is often a mainstay of treatment. It> > tries> > > to help a child> > > overcome their extreme sensitivity and reaction to their sensory> > > experiences. Sensory> > > Integration therapy is targeted at problems related to sensation.> > > These include problems> > > with touch, body position, movement, sound, food textures, and so> > > forth. Techniques may> > > involve deep pressure, brushing, and swinging.

We do not know how> > > these treatments work> > > but often they can be helpful.> > > Speech and Language therapy is also an important part of the> > equation.> > > Sometimes,> > > therapy has to be aimed at social and pragmatic problems. A home> > > program is crucial, since> > > children need to practice skills throughout the day. A therapist> > > should be sharing goals and> > > techniques with parents and teachers. There are many handouts on> > this> > > website that can> > > help.> > > Behavior specialists can also be helpful in helping parents choose> > > goals and learn> > > techniques to teach appropriate behaviors and eliminate problem> > > behaviors. In general,> > > psychotherapy for the child is not effective

for MSDD.> > > Medications can help in certain cases, but medication is not> > curative> > > Potential side effects> > > and treatment benefit have to be weighed carefully.> > > It is important to be an advocate for your child. Make sure that you> > > and the doctor are very> > > clear about the goals of treatment, including when you are going to> > > stop or change> > > treatment.> > > Children often have to be given diagnoses to get services. Sometimes> > > the diagnosis also> > > helps guide treatment. It may predict how the child may do in the> > > future. A diagnosis can> > > also tell you what your child does not have.> > > The MSDD diagnosis is getting better known, and is now being taught> > in> > > early

childhood> > > special education courses. Some clinicians will still diagnose> > autism,> > > pervasive> > > developmental disorder, developmental delay, and language> > impairment.> > > Sensory> > > integration disorder is also diagnosed.> > > The most important thing is to understand your child's needs and> > > strengths, to set goals,> > > monitor progress, and make changes when things are not working.> > > First published: 5/27/2004> > > References> > > Zero to Three Diagnostic Classification Task Force. (1994).> > Diagnostic> > > Classification> > > of Mental Health and Developmental Disorders of Infancy and Early> > > Childhood> > > (DC:0-3)™. Zero to Three. ISBN: 0943-657-32- 6> > > Advocacy> >

> Multisystem Developmental Disorder Page 2> > > Reprinted from dbpeds.org on 8/8/2008. © All rights reserved> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Jan,

I totally agree with you. My son passed all the tests at the school

when they did his IEP and said he wasnt special ed but due to the

fact that the phsychiatrist dx him with AS they had to treat him for

that and now all his IEP's are based on the docs dx.

>

> No, the school does not have to use what the psych decided at all.

They have their own list of educationally related dx's to use and the

team decides which one fits best.

>

> Roxanna

> You're Unique

> Just like everyone else...

> RE: ( ) Aspergers versus HFA

>

>

> How can a school change his DX???? The school I would

think has to go by what the Psychiatrist dx the child????

>

> Jan

>

>

>

>

> Janice Rushen

> Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

> Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist

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> Student, Believer, and Giver.

>

>

>

>

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8/14/2008 6:20 AM

>

[Guest guest]

Rose,

You hit the nail on the head. You are so right. Due to early

intervention with collin he has come along way, alot further than the

docs told me he would ever come. I do think collin was HFA and now he

is difinately aspergers. Wow, I never thought of it like that but you

are so right. You have opened my eyes to why he has been dx

differently. the doctors saw him at different times in his life.

thanks for paying attention.

> > } At one time it was thought by many experts that they were

> different - HFA

> > } had language delay while Aspergers did not. Today most experts

> believe

> > } there is no difference. In fact, I just read an article on Tony

> Attwood's

> > } site in which he says there is no difference; within the last

> year or so I

> > } read an article on his site that said they were different (for

> the reason I

> > } stated above).

> >

> > That seems to leave no useful term for those kids who are quite

> > functional yet did have language delay. I'm thinking of my son

> > here, and also a friend's daughter who just got a tenative AS

> diagnosis,

> > but I remember very clearly her language issues as a toddler.

> > (Which at the time we all thought adorable.)

> >

> > Of course, the whole concept of " functional " is very subjective,

> > but the experience of having a kid with classic autism and a kid

> > with HFA can be so different, I feel uncomfortable just calling

> > it " autism. "

> >

> > Willa

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jan, I have been disagreeing with this change for almost two years. I had to take my son back to the doctors for re-evaluation and they are still saying he's autistic - you can't cure autism. the school also spoke with our doctor directly and stated he will get the same services. they also asked that same question, then why change the classification if everything is staying the same and we get the same answer. that he is progressing and he's not classic autism. we live in NY. They did change his classification to OHI with a medical alert saying he has a medical dx of autism on his IEP so the team can be aware of his autism. I just don't understand the OHI part. like what is their game if any. I also found out they opened up an autism unit in the elementary school for all ages including adults and hired staff to go with it. Rose.rushen janice

<jrushen@...> wrote: I agree with Roxanna...it most likely has to do with money....why not contact the state...maybe the school has to account for too many children with special needs...there is something there but the school is not telling you. Do you know any one who works in the district that you can ask. I am sure there is more to this then they are telling you. And if nothing changes with this new

classification tell them you will NOT accept the new classification for your son. It is your right...you have more rights than the school and they just don't want you to know that! Jan PS What state do you live in???? Janice Rushen Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant, Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt, Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide, Student, Believer, and Giver. My guess is that they

do not plan to spend much money on services for your ds. So changing his classification makes it look good on paper for them. If they have a child with autism on paper, they have to show that the services are being provided that match that dx. How could they get funding for someone with autism but provide no services to that child? Or provide only speech? It might be causing them problems. Otherwise, I don't know what the problem could be aside from money. It's usually always money. Sometimes a person will screw around with you just for her/his own amusement. But in the end, it's money. I would ask them directly - if

we all agree he has a medical dx of autism, then why change his classification? Shouldn't it be the most accurate classification? Autism matches autism. If they say he is not classically autistic, then I would ask to see the exact paperwork detailing what the autism classification requirements are exactly. If he has AS, then he will meet the classification definition. The only "problem" will be in severity of those problems. And that is open to interpretation, IMO, and could be argued. RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else... RE: ( ) Aspergers versus HFA Aspergers, HFA, Classic autism, PDD-NOS are all under the autism spectrum. I can see if the child is DXed with autism and the school wants to say aspergers and he/she is still getting the right services " fine ". but my school wants to take my son off the autism spectrum DX and give him " OHI " which would be a Hugh disadvantage to him because the staff won't have a clear understanding of my son's autism with a classification of OHI. They still want to change him from an autism classification to OHI but added a medical DX of

autism. What sense does that make and why ? how does that benefit the school by changing my son's classification from autism to now OHI ? Rose . No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1611 - Release Date: 8/14/2008 6:20 AM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1611 - Release Date: 8/14/2008 6:20 AM

[Guest guest]

,

My son also swalloed the machonium (I know I spelled that wrong) and

he was vacumed out still didnt work finally a doc came in and had

this thing that looked like a shoe horn for an elephant and said an

old time doc taught him a trick years ago if a baby was stuck and he

used this thing and he finally came out like I said totally blue

looking stillborn and not crying or breathing. pretty scared I was,

and I also hemmorrhaged after birth and I almost lost my life.

They were pretty scared and thankful they brought me around. My

doctor said he hadnt been scared like that in a while first with the

baby and then with me. I also had that virus I forget what it is

called now but some pregnant women get it and you have to be on

antibiotics when you start delivery, I dont know it you know what Im

talking about but I am just wondering if we took a poll on moms of

aspies what their pregnancy labor and delivery were like if we would

find that alot of them were similar and then do you think any of this

would have anything to do with our kids diagnosis?????

> > > >

> > > > I would ask for written clarification of why it " has " to be

> > changed.

> > >

> > > Me too. Sounds fishy. In our state, autism has additional

> > > requirements the school must meet that other disabilities

don't,

> so

> > > they could be setting themselves up to have to do less (or

maybe

> > not).

> > >

> > > Also, HFA is not an official dx. The 5 official PDDs are:

> autism,

> > > asperger, PDD-NOS, rett's syndrome, and childhood

disintegrative

> > (sp?)

> > > disorder. PDD-NOS is someone with autistic symptoms severe

> enough

> > to

> > > warrant a dx, but the pattern or severity doesn't fit the specs

> for

> > > any of the other PDDs. The only difference between autism and

> > > asperger are that asperger is later onset, involves no loss of

> early

> > > language skills, and language difficulties are usually not as

> severe

> > > as autism. My asperger son fits the criteria for autism except

he

> > > didn't have that early language delay.

> > >

> > > Ruth

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That is terrible that you had to go through so much but thank goodness you were willing to fight. It seems like PA is one of the best states to live in if you have an autistic child. I wish I could remember the number of families that have moved here for just that reason.Sue

At one time it was thought by many experts that they were different – HFA had language delay while Aspergers did not. Today most experts believe there is no difference. In fact, I just read an article on Tony Attwood’s site in which he says there is no difference; within the last year or so I read an article on his site that said they were different (for the reason I stated above).

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of ginaSent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 6:46 PM Subject: ( ) Re: PDD-NOS being re-named?

,I have the same question as you: what is the difference between AS and HFA. My son has been refferred to as both so I just assummed they were the same thing??????? > > >> > Thanks for that info. I find it very interesting in that my Aspie son> > fits into this criteria, especially the sensory stuff, but he has no> > speech delay, although he has trouble with communicating his thoughts> > sometimes and is very bright.> >> > I suspect, that this "new" diagnostic criteria is to create a label> > for spectrum kids that clearly have issues, but are not "classic> > autism". Notice the line "A diagnosis can tell you what your child> > does

not

have." I notice that the article makes it very clear> > that "MSDD" will not be considered "autism" or even a "spectrum> > disorder". So the trend to list ADD/ADHD, Sensory Processing,> > apraxia, non verbal learning disorder, etc. etc. as part of spectrum> > disorders will cease to increase the autism numbers. Never mind that> > all those issues are rampant in our kids, and certainly were NOT> > 20,30 years ago or more.> >> > I also think that will be very convenient for the government, NIH,> > CDC, FDA, and medical establishment such as AAP, AMA to refute the> > increase in spectrum disorders in the past 20 years and the autism> > epidemic.> >> > I don't care what NIH calls it - I want them to address the many> > causes and how to help our kids get better, and make sure this> > epidemic

stops.> >> >> > > I was reading on the medline/NIH website today at work and did a> > > search on PDD-NOS. The results gave a site called dbpeds.org, which> > > is developmental and behavioral pediatrics online. Apparently PDD-> > NOS> > > is going to be re-named to "multisystem developmental disorder".> > > There was a great handout in PDF form that described my son> > perfectly.> > >> > > Anyone else ever heard of this? Here is the pamphlet's text.> > >> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder> > > by Henry L Shapiro MD> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder (MSDD) is one of the newer terms> > to> > > describe a group> > > of children with communication, social, and sensory processing> > > problems who do

not fit into> > > other categories such as autism. MSDD is usually diagnosed in early> > > childhood.> > > Abnormal reaction to sounds, smells, textures, movement,> > temperature,> > > and other> > > body sensations> > > Disturbed behavior that seems more related to unpleasant experiences> > > than lack of> > > interest in participating> > > Some impairment in communication development> > > Relatively normal interest in communicating and interacting socially> > > when they are> > > not reacting to their environment> > > Varying amounts of attention and organization problems> > > Varying amounts of coordination problems or clumsiness> > > Varying amounts of problems regulating sleep, activity, and appetite> > > These

problems must interfere significantly with everyday life, and> > > interfere with normal> > > development to warrant a diagnosis.> > > MSDD is thought to differ from autism in several ways. First,> > children> > > with MSDD tend to> > > respond to treatment better than children with autism. They are less> > > likely to have severe> > > delays in mental ability, and less likely to have severe rituals or> > > repetitive behaviors. Still,> > > these diagnoses are hard to tell apart in young children since> > > children with both diagnoses,> > > Autism and MSDD, may have similar behavior problems.> > > Emotional outbursts or "meltdowns"> > > Refusal to eat certain foods> > > Insistence on wearing certain clothing, or not liking clothing at> >

all> > > Extreme reactions to noise or movement> > > Avoidance of sensory experiences or seeking out extreme sensory> > experience> > > Abnormal reaction to pain> > > Sleep disturbance> > > Avoidance or lack of pleasure in being touched or cuddled in spite> > of> > > interest in> > > being with you socially> > > Refusal to have hair washed, touched, combed, cut, etc.> > > Toe walking. Refusal to walk on certain surfaces (such as walking on> > > grass in bare> > > feet)> > > Like many childhood developmental problems, we have few specific> > > treatments or cures.> > > Most of our treatment is meant to help a child work around a> > problem,> > > or to guide them into> > > learning or discovering skills that they

are not mastering on their> > own.> > > What kind of problems do children with MSDD have?> > > Is it MSDD or Autism?> > > What behaviors are seen in MSDD?> > > How do we treat MSDD?> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder Page 1> > > Reprinted from dbpeds.org on 8/8/2008. © All rights reserved> > > Sensory Integration therapy is often a mainstay of treatment. It> > tries> > > to help a child> > > overcome their extreme sensitivity and reaction to their sensory> > > experiences. Sensory> > > Integration therapy is targeted at problems related to sensation.> > > These include problems> > > with touch, body position, movement, sound, food textures, and so> > > forth. Techniques may> > > involve deep pressure, brushing, and swinging.

We do not know how> > > these treatments work> > > but often they can be helpful.> > > Speech and Language therapy is also an important part of the> > equation.> > > Sometimes,> > > therapy has to be aimed at social and pragmatic problems. A home> > > program is crucial, since> > > children need to practice skills throughout the day. A therapist> > > should be sharing goals and> > > techniques with parents and teachers. There are many handouts on> > this> > > website that can> > > help.> > > Behavior specialists can also be helpful in helping parents choose> > > goals and learn> > > techniques to teach appropriate behaviors and eliminate problem> > > behaviors. In general,> > > psychotherapy for the child is not effective

for MSDD.> > > Medications can help in certain cases, but medication is not> > curative> > > Potential side effects> > > and treatment benefit have to be weighed carefully.> > > It is important to be an advocate for your child. Make sure that you> > > and the doctor are very> > > clear about the goals of treatment, including when you are going to> > > stop or change> > > treatment.> > > Children often have to be given diagnoses to get services. Sometimes> > > the diagnosis also> > > helps guide treatment. It may predict how the child may do in the> > > future. A diagnosis can> > > also tell you what your child does not have.> > > The MSDD diagnosis is getting better known, and is now being taught> > in> > > early

childhood> > > special education courses. Some clinicians will still diagnose> > autism,> > > pervasive> > > developmental disorder, developmental delay, and language> > impairment.> > > Sensory> > > integration disorder is also diagnosed.> > > The most important thing is to understand your child's needs and> > > strengths, to set goals,> > > monitor progress, and make changes when things are not working.> > > First published: 5/27/2004> > > References> > > Zero to Three Diagnostic Classification Task Force. (1994).> > Diagnostic> > > Classification> > > of Mental Health and Developmental Disorders of Infancy and Early> > > Childhood> > > (DC:0-3)™. Zero to Three. ISBN: 0943-657-32- 6> > > Advocacy> >

> Multisystem Developmental Disorder Page 2> > > Reprinted from dbpeds.org on 8/8/2008. © All rights reserved> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

they're not changing his medical DX, they are changing his classification. the school goes by the classification. the DX is the medical field which they can't change. so to allow them to do what they want they have a classification and that's what they go by. his medical dx remains autism. and in some schools, they will argue with the doctor too. amazing right...our school also questioned our neurologist and autism team, but she just has too many years experience with autism and research. Also, that was the autism research building & team which my son participated in since 2 years old to present. with that said, they changed his classification to OHI and said he has a medical alert of autism.rushen janice <jrushen@...> wrote: How can a school change his DX???? The school I would think has to go by what the Psychiatrist dx the child???? Jan Janice Rushen Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant, Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist Nanny, Crafter,

Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt, Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide, Student, Believer, and Giver. At one time it was thought by many experts that they were different – HFA had language delay while Aspergers did not. Today most experts believe there is no difference. In fact, I just read an article on Tony Attwood’s site in which he says there is no difference; within the last year or so I read an article on his site that said they were different (for the reason I stated above). From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of ginaSent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 6:46 PM Subject: ( ) Re: PDD-NOS being re-named? ,I have the same question as you: what is the difference between AS and HFA. My son has been refferred to as both so I just assummed they were the same thing??????? > > >> > Thanks for that info. I find it very interesting in that my Aspie son> > fits into this criteria, especially the sensory stuff, but he has no> > speech delay, although he has trouble with communicating his thoughts> > sometimes and is very bright.> >> > I suspect, that this "new" diagnostic criteria is to create a label> > for spectrum kids that clearly have issues, but are

not "classic> > autism". Notice the line "A diagnosis can tell you what your child> > does not have." I notice that the article makes it very clear> > that "MSDD" will not be considered "autism" or even a "spectrum> > disorder". So the trend to list ADD/ADHD, Sensory Processing,> > apraxia, non verbal learning disorder, etc. etc. as part of spectrum> > disorders will cease to increase the autism numbers. Never mind that> > all those issues are rampant in our kids, and certainly were NOT> > 20,30 years ago or more.> >> > I also think that will be very convenient for the government, NIH,> > CDC, FDA, and medical establishment such as AAP, AMA to refute the> > increase in spectrum disorders in the past 20 years and the autism> > epidemic.> >> > I don't care what NIH calls it - I want them to address the many> >

causes and how to help our kids get better, and make sure this> > epidemic stops.> >> >> > > I was reading on the medline/NIH website today at work and did a> > > search on PDD-NOS. The results gave a site called dbpeds.org, which> > > is developmental and behavioral pediatrics online. Apparently PDD-> > NOS> > > is going to be re-named to "multisystem developmental disorder".> > > There was a great handout in PDF form that described my son> > perfectly.> > >> > > Anyone else ever heard of this? Here is the pamphlet's text.> > >> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder> > > by Henry L Shapiro MD> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder (MSDD) is one of the newer terms> > to> > > describe a group> > > of children with communication,

social, and sensory processing> > > problems who do not fit into> > > other categories such as autism. MSDD is usually diagnosed in early> > > childhood.> > > Abnormal reaction to sounds, smells, textures, movement,> > temperature,> > > and other> > > body sensations> > > Disturbed behavior that seems more related to unpleasant experiences> > > than lack of> > > interest in participating> > > Some impairment in communication development> > > Relatively normal interest in communicating and interacting socially> > > when they are> > > not reacting to their environment> > > Varying amounts of attention and organization problems> > > Varying amounts of coordination problems or clumsiness> > > Varying amounts of problems regulating sleep, activity, and

appetite> > > These problems must interfere significantly with everyday life, and> > > interfere with normal> > > development to warrant a diagnosis.> > > MSDD is thought to differ from autism in several ways. First,> > children> > > with MSDD tend to> > > respond to treatment better than children with autism. They are less> > > likely to have severe> > > delays in mental ability, and less likely to have severe rituals or> > > repetitive behaviors. Still,> > > these diagnoses are hard to tell apart in young children since> > > children with both diagnoses,> > > Autism and MSDD, may have similar behavior problems.> > > Emotional outbursts or "meltdowns"> > > Refusal to eat certain foods> > > Insistence on wearing certain clothing, or not liking clothing

at> > all> > > Extreme reactions to noise or movement> > > Avoidance of sensory experiences or seeking out extreme sensory> > experience> > > Abnormal reaction to pain> > > Sleep disturbance> > > Avoidance or lack of pleasure in being touched or cuddled in spite> > of> > > interest in> > > being with you socially> > > Refusal to have hair washed, touched, combed, cut, etc.> > > Toe walking. Refusal to walk on certain surfaces (such as walking on> > > grass in bare> > > feet)> > > Like many childhood developmental problems, we have few specific> > > treatments or cures.> > > Most of our treatment is meant to help a child work around a> > problem,> > > or to guide them into> > > learning or discovering skills that they

are not mastering on their> > own.> > > What kind of problems do children with MSDD have?> > > Is it MSDD or Autism?> > > What behaviors are seen in MSDD?> > > How do we treat MSDD?> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder Page 1> > > Reprinted from dbpeds.org on 8/8/2008. © All rights reserved> > > Sensory Integration therapy is often a mainstay of treatment. It> > tries> > > to help a child> > > overcome their extreme sensitivity and reaction to their sensory> > > experiences. Sensory> > > Integration therapy is targeted at problems related to sensation.> > > These include problems> > > with touch, body position, movement, sound, food textures, and so> > > forth. Techniques may> > > involve deep pressure, brushing, and swinging. We do not know

how> > > these treatments work> > > but often they can be helpful.> > > Speech and Language therapy is also an important part of the> > equation.> > > Sometimes,> > > therapy has to be aimed at social and pragmatic problems. A home> > > program is crucial, since> > > children need to practice skills throughout the day. A therapist> > > should be sharing goals and> > > techniques with parents and teachers. There are many handouts on> > this> > > website that can> > > help.> > > Behavior specialists can also be helpful in helping parents choose> > > goals and learn> > > techniques to teach appropriate behaviors and eliminate problem> > > behaviors. In general,> > > psychotherapy for the child is not effective for MSDD.> > >

Medications can help in certain cases, but medication is not> > curative> > > Potential side effects> > > and treatment benefit have to be weighed carefully.> > > It is important to be an advocate for your child. Make sure that you> > > and the doctor are very> > > clear about the goals of treatment, including when you are going to> > > stop or change> > > treatment.> > > Children often have to be given diagnoses to get services. Sometimes> > > the diagnosis also> > > helps guide treatment. It may predict how the child may do in the> > > future. A diagnosis can> > > also tell you what your child does not have.> > > The MSDD diagnosis is getting better known, and is now being taught> > in> > > early childhood> > > special education courses.

Some clinicians will still diagnose> > autism,> > > pervasive> > > developmental disorder, developmental delay, and language> > impairment.> > > Sensory> > > integration disorder is also diagnosed.> > > The most important thing is to understand your child's needs and> > > strengths, to set goals,> > > monitor progress, and make changes when things are not working.> > > First published: 5/27/2004> > > References> > > Zero to Three Diagnostic Classification Task Force. (1994).> > Diagnostic> > > Classification> > > of Mental Health and Developmental Disorders of Infancy and Early> > > Childhood> > > (DC:0-3)™. Zero to Three. ISBN: 0943-657-32- 6> > > Advocacy> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder Page 2> > > Reprinted from

dbpeds.org on 8/8/2008. © All rights reserved> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

would you believe here in NY you don't need anything but a high school diploma to sub teach in a classroom. no experience either. you can keep that same sub in the same class for 3 months. then if needed to, they can replace her with another sub up to 3 months. etc... (((( find a replacement that is certified in special education or speech )))) LOL, I didn't know they did that. rushen janice <jrushen@...> wrote: Yes ...the teachers do get maternity leave...the sad thing is that they can never find a replacement and the kids suffer. It is very difficult to find a sub that is certified in Special Education or speech...so, yes the kids are the ones that suffer. Jan Janice Rushen Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant, Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt, Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide, Student, Believer, and

Giver. >> ... they are saying he doesn't have the meltdowns, and he isprogressing. I'll see how this goes in Middle school - if they cankeep up with him. they never 'see anything' until I have to verballytell them, show them, put it

in writing, then after the whole year isup, they get it and work with him - like on the last month.Gee, this sounds familiar. This is what we run into too. You have mysympathies.I feel like part of my problem is getting resources together on myside. It took me several years to find speech/OT therapists and apsychiatrist that specialize in Asperger/ASD and so can actually behelpful. And now it is taking forever to get everything really goingbecause of waiting lists. And stuff happens. They fired his speechtherapist and don't have one to replace her. So, he is just getting afew sessions in this summer from an SLP who will be going out onmaternity leave then staying home with her baby (at the same place). And I'm running ragged at work and having problems helping him get hisspeech "homework" done.Anyway, it is driving me nuts. I just wish we could get somethingstable going for, gee, at least a year or

even 6 months. I hope youhave more patience than me.Ruth

[Guest guest]

if they say the dx doesn't matter as long as they are giving your child the services he/she needs. then why are people posting that they are getting the right services for their child with the autism dx?. or - more centers will give services under the autism dx and nothing for the AS. but if that child needs those services- reguardless of DX, then why isn't that child getting the needed services?. sounds like at ''your'' regional center, If you took your child there with a dx of aspergers, they will turn you down. but if you brought that same child back with an autism dx, they will help you?. its the same child with the same needs. that's what I don't understand, why doesn't all professionals go by what the child needs?.Willa Hunt <willaful@...> wrote: On Apr 11, 3:24pm, "gina" wrote:} I am still confused with the difference between aspherger and high=20} functioning autisim. My son was dx by 2 different docs one saying he=20} is HFA and the other saying he is AS. My son did not speak until he=20} was about 4 after major speech therapy. His therapist told me that he=20} did have speech but it was aspie speech. Basically they have their=20} own language.???Anyone heard that before?? I know that he was a=20I've never heard of that. By the actual diagnostic criteria, a childwith AS is not supposed to have had language delay, so that sounds prettyweird. But we used

to call my friend's daughter's speech "Rose-lish"because it sounded so much like another language. Perhaps that's thesort of thing he's talking about.My son had more typical speech problems - reversing pronouns, a lotof trouble with questions, other stuff I don't remember now.I say, go with whatever level gets you the most help. The"autism" diagnosis is very useful for us, because it gets my sonservices from the Regional Center. An AS diagnosis wouldn't/} little consistant with some of his jibberish, he would use some of=20} the same blurbs over and over for certain things, kind of like he was=20} talking and asking for the same things using the same words. Do ya=20} know what Im trying to say, cause I cant get it out the way Im trying=20} to, now I sound like my son, maybe it is rubbing off LOL, anyway he=20} would get very angry because he would talk this jibberish to me like=20} I was suppose to

understand him and because I didnt he would become=20} violent, throwing things and throwing himself on the floor until I=20} could figure out what he wanted. The amazing thing was when he=20} finally was able to talk his entire demeanor changed. He was a=20} different kid because he could finally communicate. Its like being a=20} baby stuck in a bigger boys body I guess. That must be terrible to=20} know what your saying but you cant be understood. The really amazing=20This is exacty why they use PECS and sign language for special needskids. (And also baby signs.) Because not being able to communicateis so frustrating!} thing was how he could not talk yet he could write words on his=20} magnadoodle only if they were street names or signs. He was obsessed=20} with signs and street signs. At 3 years old he could write every=20} letter of the alphabet but didnt even know what the alphabet was. He=20} memorized

every street sign and names of streets when we would be=20} driving around and he had magnadoodles in the car also so he would=20} copy the letters from the street names and he would draw the signs=20} and put the name in it. for example he would draw a stop sign and=20} write stop in the middle of it just like a real stop sign was. Every=20} toy he had was anything to do with signs. He had sign puzzles,=20} books , plastic street signs that he would line up along my kitchen=20} counters and table perfectly in a row, hundreds of these little=20} plastic signs and if one was moved out of place he would fix it=20} immediately. It would upset him if one would get knocked over or out=20My little guy really likes signs too, though the interest comes andgoes. It's one of his favorite things at the moment.Willa

[Guest guest]

In the state of Pa in order to sub you must be certified. Now find a certified Sp Ed. teacher is something else...so what they do is find a sub and let that person work for 15 days I think it is and then get another sub for 15 days...I can't remember if it is because they can't have a non Spe.Ed. sub for more than 15 day or because they don't want to start having to offer benefits...i foget which....but I do know for a fact you have to be certified to sub. as that is what I was going to do...now they do have emergency certificates for subbing but you need a college degree and have to be accepted into this program and go for training for I think it was 3 days.

Spec. ed. teacher are in demand ...so you can see why there aren't many around as subs. In the reading class we had...they would have a sub for 15 days and then another new sub and then back to the other sub....let me tell you the kids really suffered.

The one sub was really really good but they would not let her stay on for more than 15 days at a time. Ugh!

jan

Janice Rushen

Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist

Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt,

Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide,

Student, Believer, and Giver.

>> ... they are saying he doesn't have the meltdowns, and he isprogressing. I'll see how this goes in Middle school - if they cankeep up with him. they never 'see anything' until I have to verballytell them, show them, put it in writing, then after the whole year isup, they get it and work with him - like on the last month.Gee, this sounds familiar. This is what we run into too. You have mysympathies.I feel like part of my problem is getting resources together on myside. It took me several years to find speech/OT therapists and apsychiatrist that specialize in Asperger/ASD and so can actually behelpful. And now it is taking forever to get everything really goingbecause of waiting lists. And stuff happens. They fired

his speechtherapist and don't have one to replace her. So, he is just getting afew sessions in this summer from an SLP who will be going out onmaternity leave then staying home with her baby (at the same place). And I'm running ragged at work and having problems helping him get hisspeech "homework" done.Anyway, it is driving me nuts. I just wish we could get somethingstable going for, gee, at least a year or even 6 months. I hope youhave more patience than me.Ruth

[Guest guest]

Do you have a parent education network in your state? Can you write/call the state department of education and find out what is going on? Ask your local state representative? Someone MUST have the answer for you. Do you know anybody who works in the school district or a friend of a friend who can find out and tell you????

Jan

Janice Rushen

Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist

Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt,

Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide,

Student, Believer, and Giver.

At one time it was thought by many experts that they were different – HFA had language delay while Aspergers did not. Today most experts believe there is no difference. In fact, I just read an article on Tony Attwood’s site in which he says there is no difference; within the last year or so I read an article on his site that said they were different (for the reason I stated above).

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of ginaSent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 6:46 PM Subject: ( ) Re: PDD-NOS being re-named?

,I have the same question as you: what is the difference between AS and HFA. My son has been refferred to as both so I just assummed they were the same thing??????? > > >> > Thanks for that info. I find it very interesting in that my Aspie son> > fits into this criteria, especially the sensory stuff, but he has no> > speech delay, although he has trouble with communicating his thoughts> > sometimes and is very bright.> >> > I suspect, that this "new" diagnostic criteria is to create a label> > for spectrum kids that clearly have issues, but are not "classic> > autism". Notice the line "A diagnosis can tell you what your child> > does not

have." I notice that the article makes it very clear> > that "MSDD" will not be considered "autism" or even a "spectrum> > disorder". So the trend to list ADD/ADHD, Sensory Processing,> > apraxia, non verbal learning disorder, etc. etc. as part of spectrum> > disorders will cease to increase the autism numbers. Never mind that> > all those issues are rampant in our kids, and certainly were NOT> > 20,30 years ago or more.> >> > I also think that will be very convenient for the government, NIH,> > CDC, FDA, and medical establishment such as AAP, AMA to refute the> > increase in spectrum disorders in the past 20 years and the autism> > epidemic.> >> > I don't care what NIH calls it - I want them to address the many> > causes and how to help our kids get better, and make sure this> > epidemic

stops.> >> >> > > I was reading on the medline/NIH website today at work and did a> > > search on PDD-NOS. The results gave a site called dbpeds.org, which> > > is developmental and behavioral pediatrics online. Apparently PDD-> > NOS> > > is going to be re-named to "multisystem developmental disorder".> > > There was a great handout in PDF form that described my son> > perfectly.> > >> > > Anyone else ever heard of this? Here is the pamphlet's text.> > >> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder> > > by Henry L Shapiro MD> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder (MSDD) is one of the newer terms> > to> > > describe a group> > > of children with communication, social, and sensory processing> > > problems who do

not fit into> > > other categories such as autism. MSDD is usually diagnosed in early> > > childhood.> > > Abnormal reaction to sounds, smells, textures, movement,> > temperature,> > > and other> > > body sensations> > > Disturbed behavior that seems more related to unpleasant experiences> > > than lack of> > > interest in participating> > > Some impairment in communication development> > > Relatively normal interest in communicating and interacting socially> > > when they are> > > not reacting to their environment> > > Varying amounts of attention and organization problems> > > Varying amounts of coordination problems or clumsiness> > > Varying amounts of problems regulating sleep, activity, and appetite> > > These

problems must interfere significantly with everyday life, and> > > interfere with normal> > > development to warrant a diagnosis.> > > MSDD is thought to differ from autism in several ways. First,> > children> > > with MSDD tend to> > > respond to treatment better than children with autism. They are less> > > likely to have severe> > > delays in mental ability, and less likely to have severe rituals or> > > repetitive behaviors. Still,> > > these diagnoses are hard to tell apart in young children since> > > children with both diagnoses,> > > Autism and MSDD, may have similar behavior problems.> > > Emotional outbursts or "meltdowns"> > > Refusal to eat certain foods> > > Insistence on wearing certain clothing, or not liking clothing at> >

all> > > Extreme reactions to noise or movement> > > Avoidance of sensory experiences or seeking out extreme sensory> > experience> > > Abnormal reaction to pain> > > Sleep disturbance> > > Avoidance or lack of pleasure in being touched or cuddled in spite> > of> > > interest in> > > being with you socially> > > Refusal to have hair washed, touched, combed, cut, etc.> > > Toe walking. Refusal to walk on certain surfaces (such as walking on> > > grass in bare> > > feet)> > > Like many childhood developmental problems, we have few specific> > > treatments or cures.> > > Most of our treatment is meant to help a child work around a> > problem,> > > or to guide them into> > > learning or discovering skills that they

are not mastering on their> > own.> > > What kind of problems do children with MSDD have?> > > Is it MSDD or Autism?> > > What behaviors are seen in MSDD?> > > How do we treat MSDD?> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder Page 1> > > Reprinted from dbpeds.org on 8/8/2008. © All rights reserved> > > Sensory Integration therapy is often a mainstay of treatment. It> > tries> > > to help a child> > > overcome their extreme sensitivity and reaction to their sensory> > > experiences. Sensory> > > Integration therapy is targeted at problems related to sensation.> > > These include problems> > > with touch, body position, movement, sound, food textures, and so> > > forth. Techniques may> > > involve deep pressure, brushing, and swinging.

We do not know how> > > these treatments work> > > but often they can be helpful.> > > Speech and Language therapy is also an important part of the> > equation.> > > Sometimes,> > > therapy has to be aimed at social and pragmatic problems. A home> > > program is crucial, since> > > children need to practice skills throughout the day. A therapist> > > should be sharing goals and> > > techniques with parents and teachers. There are many handouts on> > this> > > website that can> > > help.> > > Behavior specialists can also be helpful in helping parents choose> > > goals and learn> > > techniques to teach appropriate behaviors and eliminate problem> > > behaviors. In general,> > > psychotherapy for the child is not effective

for MSDD.> > > Medications can help in certain cases, but medication is not> > curative> > > Potential side effects> > > and treatment benefit have to be weighed carefully.> > > It is important to be an advocate for your child. Make sure that you> > > and the doctor are very> > > clear about the goals of treatment, including when you are going to> > > stop or change> > > treatment.> > > Children often have to be given diagnoses to get services. Sometimes> > > the diagnosis also> > > helps guide treatment. It may predict how the child may do in the> > > future. A diagnosis can> > > also tell you what your child does not have.> > > The MSDD diagnosis is getting better known, and is now being taught> > in> > > early

childhood> > > special education courses. Some clinicians will still diagnose> > autism,> > > pervasive> > > developmental disorder, developmental delay, and language> > impairment.> > > Sensory> > > integration disorder is also diagnosed.> > > The most important thing is to understand your child's needs and> > > strengths, to set goals,> > > monitor progress, and make changes when things are not working.> > > First published: 5/27/2004> > > References> > > Zero to Three Diagnostic Classification Task Force. (1994).> > Diagnostic> > > Classification> > > of Mental Health and Developmental Disorders of Infancy and Early> > > Childhood> > > (DC:0-3)™. Zero to Three. ISBN: 0943-657-32- 6> > > Advocacy> >

> Multisystem Developmental Disorder Page 2> > > Reprinted from dbpeds.org on 8/8/2008. © All rights reserved> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Sue you are so right...I remember my friend telling me that families are moving here to Pa because of the educational system and all they do for autistic children. She worked in a pre-school and they had a new student coming in that was autistic...and boy did that child get assistance...and my girlfriend had to take classes and meet with the school the girl was going to attend...wow and she was only in pre-school....

I moved here 20 years ago ....never knowing anything about this and my girlfriend told me all about the fact that families are moving here becuase of the assistance they get for their austistic children and then my son was DX with AS...originally ADHD.

I live in the Poconos ...NJ is just across the river and many have moved here and commute to NJ or NYC. I guess we are lucky Sue.

jan

Janice Rushen

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At one time it was thought by many experts that they were different – HFA had language delay while Aspergers did not. Today most experts believe there is no difference. In fact, I just read an article on Tony Attwood’s site in which he says there is no difference; within the last year or so I read an article on his site that said they were different (for the reason I stated above).

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of ginaSent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 6:46 PM Subject: ( ) Re: PDD-NOS being re-named?

,I have the same question as you: what is the difference between AS and HFA. My son has been refferred to as both so I just assummed they were the same thing??????? > > >> > Thanks for that info. I find it very interesting in that my Aspie son> > fits into this criteria, especially the sensory stuff, but he has no> > speech delay, although he has trouble with communicating his thoughts> > sometimes and is very bright.> >> > I suspect, that this "new" diagnostic criteria is to create a label> > for spectrum kids that clearly have issues, but are not "classic> > autism". Notice the line "A diagnosis can tell you what your child> > does not

have." I notice that the article makes it very clear> > that "MSDD" will not be considered "autism" or even a "spectrum> > disorder". So the trend to list ADD/ADHD, Sensory Processing,> > apraxia, non verbal learning disorder, etc. etc. as part of spectrum> > disorders will cease to increase the autism numbers. Never mind that> > all those issues are rampant in our kids, and certainly were NOT> > 20,30 years ago or more.> >> > I also think that will be very convenient for the government, NIH,> > CDC, FDA, and medical establishment such as AAP, AMA to refute the> > increase in spectrum disorders in the past 20 years and the autism> > epidemic.> >> > I don't care what NIH calls it - I want them to address the many> > causes and how to help our kids get better, and make sure this> > epidemic

stops.> >> >> > > I was reading on the medline/NIH website today at work and did a> > > search on PDD-NOS. The results gave a site called dbpeds.org, which> > > is developmental and behavioral pediatrics online. Apparently PDD-> > NOS> > > is going to be re-named to "multisystem developmental disorder".> > > There was a great handout in PDF form that described my son> > perfectly.> > >> > > Anyone else ever heard of this? Here is the pamphlet's text.> > >> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder> > > by Henry L Shapiro MD> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder (MSDD) is one of the newer terms> > to> > > describe a group> > > of children with communication, social, and sensory processing> > > problems who do

not fit into> > > other categories such as autism. MSDD is usually diagnosed in early> > > childhood.> > > Abnormal reaction to sounds, smells, textures, movement,> > temperature,> > > and other> > > body sensations> > > Disturbed behavior that seems more related to unpleasant experiences> > > than lack of> > > interest in participating> > > Some impairment in communication development> > > Relatively normal interest in communicating and interacting socially> > > when they are> > > not reacting to their environment> > > Varying amounts of attention and organization problems> > > Varying amounts of coordination problems or clumsiness> > > Varying amounts of problems regulating sleep, activity, and appetite> > > These

problems must interfere significantly with everyday life, and> > > interfere with normal> > > development to warrant a diagnosis.> > > MSDD is thought to differ from autism in several ways. First,> > children> > > with MSDD tend to> > > respond to treatment better than children with autism. They are less> > > likely to have severe> > > delays in mental ability, and less likely to have severe rituals or> > > repetitive behaviors. Still,> > > these diagnoses are hard to tell apart in young children since> > > children with both diagnoses,> > > Autism and MSDD, may have similar behavior problems.> > > Emotional outbursts or "meltdowns"> > > Refusal to eat certain foods> > > Insistence on wearing certain clothing, or not liking clothing at> >

all> > > Extreme reactions to noise or movement> > > Avoidance of sensory experiences or seeking out extreme sensory> > experience> > > Abnormal reaction to pain> > > Sleep disturbance> > > Avoidance or lack of pleasure in being touched or cuddled in spite> > of> > > interest in> > > being with you socially> > > Refusal to have hair washed, touched, combed, cut, etc.> > > Toe walking. Refusal to walk on certain surfaces (such as walking on> > > grass in bare> > > feet)> > > Like many childhood developmental problems, we have few specific> > > treatments or cures.> > > Most of our treatment is meant to help a child work around a> > problem,> > > or to guide them into> > > learning or discovering skills that they

are not mastering on their> > own.> > > What kind of problems do children with MSDD have?> > > Is it MSDD or Autism?> > > What behaviors are seen in MSDD?> > > How do we treat MSDD?> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder Page 1> > > Reprinted from dbpeds.org on 8/8/2008. © All rights reserved> > > Sensory Integration therapy is often a mainstay of treatment. It> > tries> > > to help a child> > > overcome their extreme sensitivity and reaction to their sensory> > > experiences. Sensory> > > Integration therapy is targeted at problems related to sensation.> > > These include problems> > > with touch, body position, movement, sound, food textures, and so> > > forth. Techniques may> > > involve deep pressure, brushing, and swinging.

We do not know how> > > these treatments work> > > but often they can be helpful.> > > Speech and Language therapy is also an important part of the> > equation.> > > Sometimes,> > > therapy has to be aimed at social and pragmatic problems. A home> > > program is crucial, since> > > children need to practice skills throughout the day. A therapist> > > should be sharing goals and> > > techniques with parents and teachers. There are many handouts on> > this> > > website that can> > > help.> > > Behavior specialists can also be helpful in helping parents choose> > > goals and learn> > > techniques to teach appropriate behaviors and eliminate problem> > > behaviors. In general,> > > psychotherapy for the child is not effective

for MSDD.> > > Medications can help in certain cases, but medication is not> > curative> > > Potential side effects> > > and treatment benefit have to be weighed carefully.> > > It is important to be an advocate for your child. Make sure that you> > > and the doctor are very> > > clear about the goals of treatment, including when you are going to> > > stop or change> > > treatment.> > > Children often have to be given diagnoses to get services. Sometimes> > > the diagnosis also> > > helps guide treatment. It may predict how the child may do in the> > > future. A diagnosis can> > > also tell you what your child does not have.> > > The MSDD diagnosis is getting better known, and is now being taught> > in> > > early

childhood> > > special education courses. Some clinicians will still diagnose> > autism,> > > pervasive> > > developmental disorder, developmental delay, and language> > impairment.> > > Sensory> > > integration disorder is also diagnosed.> > > The most important thing is to understand your child's needs and> > > strengths, to set goals,> > > monitor progress, and make changes when things are not working.> > > First published: 5/27/2004> > > References> > > Zero to Three Diagnostic Classification Task Force. (1994).> > Diagnostic> > > Classification> > > of Mental Health and Developmental Disorders of Infancy and Early> > > Childhood> > > (DC:0-3)™. Zero to Three. ISBN: 0943-657-32- 6> > > Advocacy> >

> Multisystem Developmental Disorder Page 2> > > Reprinted from dbpeds.org on 8/8/2008. © All rights reserved> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

It is very difficult because of the budget...and the teachers are so overloaded with paper work...IEP's ...etc. etc. My son is going into 7th grade...he will be in pull-out classes for everything...if I find he is doing really well in Social studies and Science then I will request he be moved to regular classes for those two subjects. But he has a lot of sensory issues (noise, distractions) and is very immature,his IEP team and I both felt he would do so much better in a smaller classroom setting so we are trying it this year. Inclusion classrooms don't work for his ...way to distracting and way way too noisy.

Jan

Janice Rushen

Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist

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>> My son was dx Aspergers Syndrome and on his paperwork they putAutism....and looked� at me as if I would be in shock or whatever...I think they did this because, in the school definition, all PDDs are"coded" autism. At least that is how our state is (Texas). They arevery explicit that "autism" includes the entire spectrum. My son wascoded autism also for his 504 Plan. They also looked at me and pausedand asked if it was okay. I'm not sure what they would have done ifI'd said I minded. I guess I'll never know. I think some states are different though.Ruth

Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.

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[Guest guest]

So are they re-classifying him so he is not eligible to be in this new autistic center....is that it??? Or that they only want Austic kids in this new unit and all others in the spectrum will not be included because now they are classified something else??? Maybe the state of NY is making new classifications so that they won't have to offer your child the same things that classified Autistic kids can get? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm ...sounds like it boils down to money to me...

Did you check with your state department? Please do so...and let me know what they say.

Jan

P.S. I am going to ask my sister who is a teacher in another state but she might know. I know each state is different.

P.P.S. Come to PA

Janice Rushen

Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist

Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt,

Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide,

Student, Believer, and Giver.

My guess is that they do not plan to spend much money on services for your ds. So changing his classification makes it look good on paper for them. If they have a child with autism on paper, they have to show that the services are being provided that match that dx. How could they get funding for someone with autism but provide no services to that child? Or provide only speech? It might be causing them problems.

Otherwise, I don't know what the problem could be aside from money. It's usually always money.

Sometimes a person will screw around with you just for her/his own amusement. But in the end, it's money.

I would ask them directly - if we all agree he has a medical dx of autism, then why change his classification? Shouldn't it be the most accurate classification? Autism matches autism. If they say he is not classically autistic, then I would ask to see the exact paperwork detailing what the autism classification requirements are exactly. If he has AS, then he will meet the classification definition. The only "problem" will be in severity of those problems. And that is open to interpretation, IMO, and could be argued.

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

RE: ( ) Aspergers versus HFA

Aspergers, HFA, Classic autism, PDD-NOS are all under the autism spectrum. I can see if the child is DXed with autism and the school wants to say aspergers and he/she is still getting the right services " fine ". but my school wants to take my son off the autism spectrum DX and give him " OHI " which would be a Hugh disadvantage to him because the staff won't have a clear understanding of my son's autism with a classification of OHI. They still want to change him from an autism classification to OHI but added a medical DX of autism. What sense does that make and why ? how does that benefit the school by changing my son's classification from autism to now OHI ?

Rose

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[Guest guest]

>

> they also are saying in NY, if your not classic autism, you won't

be under the autism classification. so, HFA, PDD-NOS, AS all get OHI.

OK, that was what I was trying to ask about before, I just didn't put

it very well. So, either there was a change in how autism is

classified in NY recently or they were doing it wrong before. You

know HFA is not an official dx--that may be part of your problem. I

would try to get a neuropsych or neurologist to see what official dx

he fits. Your school is not qualified to dx and sounds like that is

what they are trying to do. Since HFA is not an official dx, they are

deciding whether he is classic autism, PDD-NOS or AS. So ask them

what dx they are using. If your insurance doesn't cover the eval and

you can't afford it out of pocket--request the eval from them.

> they seem to be doing this to others and it seems like they are

doing this just before middle school.

So, maybe whatever administrator is over the middle school is more

strict about following the state guidelines on classifications? So

they have to get all their ducks in order before they leave

elementary? Or it could be the particular elementary school is lax

about classifying kids--being like some of us, spending more time

determining what needs are to be met rather than the correct label?

I think one question you could ask is if there are different

guidelines for school districts to follow if autism is a secondary

condition rather than the primary condition.

It is scary.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

> I also found out they opened up an autism unit in the elementary

school for all ages including adults and hired staff to go with it.

So, can your son access any of these programs or staff with just a

autism medical alert or would he have to have a primary classification

of autism? If not, I would say that right there is probably the

reason for the change.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

Granted, I'm a suspicious person, and I've heard personal, and truly

shocking stories from financial people, govt people, lobbyists, drug

company people, doctors and nurses, and attorneys, but what the hay,

here's my take on this-

The school itself won't answer you and cannot answer you because they

have absolutely NO IDEA why they need to do this. They are just

following orders.

It has come down to them from higher up. The state government most

likely. Or federal. Or a local rep, state senator, someone. Pressure

from a lobbyist on someone, maybe. Somebody, somewhere has seen that

your area's autism stats are getting too high, or too high for that

age group and so, this way they can still give the kids services and

they don't have to feel bad, and at the same time, somebody's tush is

covered when the autism stats come out and those stats do NOT support

the " necessary outcome " .

Meaning this: " we paid good money, or our deal was, for your research

to show that in this area, ABC*(insert whatever cause du jour is

being defended/ " researched " - I use that term loosely) does NOT

cause, contribute, relate in ANY WAY to ANY higher incidence in

autism. There is NO link between autism and *ABC " (crap in the water,

a batch# of bad meds, an environmental HazMat leak at a plant 12

years ago that was covered up, whatever....take your pick).

It happens all the time, every day, in every single industry at all

levels of government. Whenever you read studies, get the names of the

authors, publishers, researchers, funders, director of the journal or

president of the university, etc, etc, and then get someone in the

financial industry to follow the money of those names - to see who

owns which stocks and sits on which corporate boards, etc. It will

shock the bejeebers out of you.

-- In , Rose <beachbodytan2002@...>

wrote:

>

> Jan, I have been disagreeing with this change for almost two

years. I had to take my son back to the doctors for re-evaluation

and they are still saying he's autistic - you can't cure autism. the

school also spoke with our doctor directly and stated he will get the

same services. they also asked that same question, then why change

the classification if everything is staying the same and we get the

same answer. that he is progressing and he's not classic autism. we

live in NY. They did change his classification to OHI with a medical

alert saying he has a medical dx of autism on his IEP so the team can

be aware of his autism. I just don't understand the OHI part. like

what is their game if any. I also found out they opened up an autism

unit in the elementary school for all ages including adults and hired

staff to go with it.

> Rose.

>

> rushen janice <jrushen@...> wrote:

> I agree with Roxanna...it most likely has to do

with money....why not contact the state...maybe the school has to

account for too many children with special needs...there is something

there but the school is not telling you. Do you know any one who

works in the district that you can ask. I am sure there is more to

this then they are telling you.

>

> And if nothing changes with this new classification tell them you

will NOT accept the new classification for your son. It is your

right...you have more rights than the school and they just don't want

you to know that!

>

> Jan

>

> PS What state do you live in????

>

>

> Janice Rushen

> Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

> Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist

> Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt,

> Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide,

> Student, Believer, and Giver.

>

>

>

>

> My guess is that they do not plan to spend much money on

services for your ds. So changing his classification makes it look

good on paper for them. If they have a child with autism on paper,

they have to show that the services are being provided that match

that dx. How could they get funding for someone with autism but

provide no services to that child? Or provide only speech? It might

be causing them problems.

>

> Otherwise, I don't know what the problem could be aside from

money. It's usually always money.

> Sometimes a person will screw around with you just for her/his

own amusement. But in the end, it's money.

>

> I would ask them directly - if we all agree he has a medical dx

of autism, then why change his classification? Shouldn't it be the

most accurate classification? Autism matches autism. If they say he

is not classically autistic, then I would ask to see the exact

paperwork detailing what the autism classification requirements are

exactly. If he has AS, then he will meet the classification

definition. The only " problem " will be in severity of those

problems. And that is open to interpretation, IMO, and could be

argued.

>

> Roxanna

> You're Unique

> Just like everyone else...

> RE: ( ) Aspergers versus HFA

>

>

> Aspergers, HFA, Classic autism, PDD-NOS are all under the

autism spectrum. I can see if the child is DXed with autism and the

school wants to say aspergers and he/she is still getting the right

services " fine " . but my school wants to take my son off the autism

spectrum DX and give him " OHI " which would be a Hugh disadvantage

to him because the staff won't have a clear understanding of my son's

autism with a classification of OHI. They still want to change him

from an autism classification to OHI but added a medical DX of

autism. What sense does that make and why ? how does that benefit

the school by changing my son's classification from autism to now

OHI ?

> Rose

>

>

>

> .

>

>

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>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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>

[Guest guest]

, I was told by many people that if you start with early interventions as early as possible, that makes the world of difference. I know some children that didn't start interventions at a young age because the parents were concerned about a label. they can't even go into a restaurant with their child due to the inappropriate behaviors. My son has progressed so much since he was a tot. when I think back, I can't believe he is that same boy. but he needs consistent strategies and new ones as time goes on. I'm glad to read your good news - keep up the good work !!! yeah !. Rosegina <ginak1117@...> wrote: Rose,You hit the nail on the head. You are so right. Due to early intervention with collin he has come along way, alot further than the docs told me he would ever come. I do think collin was HFA and now he is difinately aspergers. Wow, I never thought of it like that but you are so right. You have opened my eyes to why he has been dx differently. the doctors saw him at different times in his life. thanks for paying attention. > > } At one time it was thought by

many experts that they were > different - HFA> > } had language delay while Aspergers did not. Today most experts > believe> > } there is no difference. In fact, I just read an article on Tony > Attwood's> > } site in which he says there is no difference; within the last > year or so I> > } read an article on his site that said they were different (for > the reason I> > } stated above). > > > > That seems to leave no useful term for those kids who are quite> > functional yet did have language delay. I'm thinking of my son> > here, and also a friend's daughter who just got a tenative AS > diagnosis,> > but I remember very clearly her language issues as a toddler.> > (Which at the time we all thought adorable.) > > > > Of course, the whole concept of "functional" is very subjective,> > but the

experience of having a kid with classic autism and a kid> > with HFA can be so different, I feel uncomfortable just calling> > it "autism."> > > > Willa> >>

[Guest guest]

Jan, so you live in the Poconos ? you are very lucky, you have the convenience of the am-tract to commute to NYC whenever you want - the great paying jobs there and living without all that rush hr and traffic pollution in PA. that was the move !!! I bet it's like a vacation spot where you are. where we live its like a vacation spot too. but due to all the people that come here for vacation, the prices are so high. also due to it being so rural - we don't have much shopping choice & with spending more than half our money on gas for our cars to get anyplace. also, there is no transportation. 100% dependent on our cars. you have all that and good schools. that is awesome !....just thinking of your back to school shopping, you can go to NJ or NYC and catch all the sales !. over here - NOT -. we pay !.rushen janice <jrushen@...> wrote: Sue you are so right...I remember my friend telling me that families are moving here to Pa because of the educational system and all they do for autistic children. She worked in a pre-school and they had a new student coming in that was autistic...and boy did that child get assistance...and my girlfriend had to take classes and meet with the school the girl was going to attend...wow and she was only in pre-school.... I moved here 20

years ago ....never knowing anything about this and my girlfriend told me all about the fact that families are moving here becuase of the assistance they get for their austistic children and then my son was DX with AS...originally ADHD. I live in the Poconos ...NJ is just across the river and many have moved here and commute to NJ or NYC. I guess we are lucky Sue. jan Janice Rushen Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant, Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt, Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide, Student, Believer, and Giver. At one time it was thought by many experts that they were different – HFA

had language delay while Aspergers did not. Today most experts believe there is no difference. In fact, I just read an article on Tony Attwood’s site in which he says there is no difference; within the last year or so I read an article on his site that said they were different (for the reason I stated above). From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of ginaSent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 6:46 PM Subject: ( ) Re: PDD-NOS being re-named? ,I have the same question as you: what is the difference between AS and HFA. My son has been refferred to as both so I just assummed they were the same thing??????? > > >>

> Thanks for that info. I find it very interesting in that my Aspie son> > fits into this criteria, especially the sensory stuff, but he has no> > speech delay, although he has trouble with communicating his thoughts> > sometimes and is very bright.> >> > I suspect, that this "new" diagnostic criteria is to create a label> > for spectrum kids that clearly have issues, but are not "classic> > autism". Notice the line "A diagnosis can tell you what your child> > does not have." I notice that the article makes it very clear> > that "MSDD" will not be considered "autism" or even a "spectrum> > disorder". So the trend to list ADD/ADHD, Sensory Processing,> > apraxia, non verbal learning disorder, etc. etc. as part of spectrum> > disorders will cease to increase the autism numbers. Never mind that> > all those issues are

rampant in our kids, and certainly were NOT> > 20,30 years ago or more.> >> > I also think that will be very convenient for the government, NIH,> > CDC, FDA, and medical establishment such as AAP, AMA to refute the> > increase in spectrum disorders in the past 20 years and the autism> > epidemic.> >> > I don't care what NIH calls it - I want them to address the many> > causes and how to help our kids get better, and make sure this> > epidemic stops.> >> >> > > I was reading on the medline/NIH website today at work and did a> > > search on PDD-NOS. The results gave a site called dbpeds.org, which> > > is developmental and behavioral pediatrics online. Apparently PDD-> > NOS> > > is going to be re-named to "multisystem developmental disorder".> > > There was a great

handout in PDF form that described my son> > perfectly.> > >> > > Anyone else ever heard of this? Here is the pamphlet's text.> > >> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder> > > by Henry L Shapiro MD> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder (MSDD) is one of the newer terms> > to> > > describe a group> > > of children with communication, social, and sensory processing> > > problems who do not fit into> > > other categories such as autism. MSDD is usually diagnosed in early> > > childhood.> > > Abnormal reaction to sounds, smells, textures, movement,> > temperature,> > > and other> > > body sensations> > > Disturbed behavior that seems more related to unpleasant experiences> > > than lack of> > > interest in

participating> > > Some impairment in communication development> > > Relatively normal interest in communicating and interacting socially> > > when they are> > > not reacting to their environment> > > Varying amounts of attention and organization problems> > > Varying amounts of coordination problems or clumsiness> > > Varying amounts of problems regulating sleep, activity, and appetite> > > These problems must interfere significantly with everyday life, and> > > interfere with normal> > > development to warrant a diagnosis.> > > MSDD is thought to differ from autism in several ways. First,> > children> > > with MSDD tend to> > > respond to treatment better than children with autism. They are less> > > likely to have severe> > > delays in mental ability,

and less likely to have severe rituals or> > > repetitive behaviors. Still,> > > these diagnoses are hard to tell apart in young children since> > > children with both diagnoses,> > > Autism and MSDD, may have similar behavior problems.> > > Emotional outbursts or "meltdowns"> > > Refusal to eat certain foods> > > Insistence on wearing certain clothing, or not liking clothing at> > all> > > Extreme reactions to noise or movement> > > Avoidance of sensory experiences or seeking out extreme sensory> > experience> > > Abnormal reaction to pain> > > Sleep disturbance> > > Avoidance or lack of pleasure in being touched or cuddled in spite> > of> > > interest in> > > being with you socially> > > Refusal to have hair washed, touched, combed, cut,

etc.> > > Toe walking. Refusal to walk on certain surfaces (such as walking on> > > grass in bare> > > feet)> > > Like many childhood developmental problems, we have few specific> > > treatments or cures.> > > Most of our treatment is meant to help a child work around a> > problem,> > > or to guide them into> > > learning or discovering skills that they are not mastering on their> > own.> > > What kind of problems do children with MSDD have?> > > Is it MSDD or Autism?> > > What behaviors are seen in MSDD?> > > How do we treat MSDD?> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder Page 1> > > Reprinted from dbpeds.org on 8/8/2008. © All rights reserved> > > Sensory Integration therapy is often a mainstay of treatment. It> > tries> > > to

help a child> > > overcome their extreme sensitivity and reaction to their sensory> > > experiences. Sensory> > > Integration therapy is targeted at problems related to sensation.> > > These include problems> > > with touch, body position, movement, sound, food textures, and so> > > forth. Techniques may> > > involve deep pressure, brushing, and swinging. We do not know how> > > these treatments work> > > but often they can be helpful.> > > Speech and Language therapy is also an important part of the> > equation.> > > Sometimes,> > > therapy has to be aimed at social and pragmatic problems. A home> > > program is crucial, since> > > children need to practice skills throughout the day. A therapist> > > should be sharing goals and> > > techniques

with parents and teachers. There are many handouts on> > this> > > website that can> > > help.> > > Behavior specialists can also be helpful in helping parents choose> > > goals and learn> > > techniques to teach appropriate behaviors and eliminate problem> > > behaviors. In general,> > > psychotherapy for the child is not effective for MSDD.> > > Medications can help in certain cases, but medication is not> > curative> > > Potential side effects> > > and treatment benefit have to be weighed carefully.> > > It is important to be an advocate for your child. Make sure that you> > > and the doctor are very> > > clear about the goals of treatment, including when you are going to> > > stop or change> > > treatment.> > > Children often have to

be given diagnoses to get services. Sometimes> > > the diagnosis also> > > helps guide treatment. It may predict how the child may do in the> > > future. A diagnosis can> > > also tell you what your child does not have.> > > The MSDD diagnosis is getting better known, and is now being taught> > in> > > early childhood> > > special education courses. Some clinicians will still diagnose> > autism,> > > pervasive> > > developmental disorder, developmental delay, and language> > impairment.> > > Sensory> > > integration disorder is also diagnosed.> > > The most important thing is to understand your child's needs and> > > strengths, to set goals,> > > monitor progress, and make changes when things are not working.> > > First published:

5/27/2004> > > References> > > Zero to Three Diagnostic Classification Task Force. (1994).> > Diagnostic> > > Classification> > > of Mental Health and Developmental Disorders of Infancy and Early> > > Childhood> > > (DC:0-3)™. Zero to Three. ISBN: 0943-657-32- 6> > > Advocacy> > > Multisystem Developmental Disorder Page 2> > > Reprinted from dbpeds.org on 8/8/2008. © All rights reserved> > >> >>

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Jan, I'm not really concerned about getting my son into that autism class. He is doing well with the services he is getting now in the regular classrooms with resource room when needed. After reading what you just posted, I'm thinking they are just covering themselves just in case I wanted to put him in that autistic program. not sure ? but I want to be 100% sure that they don't plan on taking away his services when I'm feeling secure and he's doing well. that's how schools think. he's doing well so lets take everything away without thinking of " that's why he's doing well " because of those services .... now it doesn't take a PHD to figure this all out. Roserushen janice <jrushen@...> wrote: So are they re-classifying him so he is not eligible to be in this new autistic center....is that it??? Or that they only want Austic kids in this new unit and all others in the spectrum will not be included because now they are classified something else??? Maybe the state of NY is making new classifications so that they won't have to offer your child the same things that classified Autistic kids can get? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm ...sounds like it boils down to money to me... Did you check with your state department? Please do so...and let me know what they say. Jan P.S. I am

going to ask my sister who is a teacher in another state but she might know. I know each state is different. P.P.S. Come to PA Janice Rushen Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant, Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt, Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide, Student, Believer, and Giver. My guess is that they

do not plan to spend much money on services for your ds. So changing his classification makes it look good on paper for them. If they have a child with autism on paper, they have to show that the services are being provided that match that dx. How could they get funding for someone with autism but provide no services to that child? Or provide only speech? It might be causing them problems. Otherwise, I don't know what the problem could be aside from money. It's usually always money. Sometimes a person will screw around with you just for her/his own amusement. But in the end, it's money. I would ask them directly - if

we all agree he has a medical dx of autism, then why change his classification? Shouldn't it be the most accurate classification? Autism matches autism. If they say he is not classically autistic, then I would ask to see the exact paperwork detailing what the autism classification requirements are exactly. If he has AS, then he will meet the classification definition. The only "problem" will be in severity of those problems. And that is open to interpretation, IMO, and could be argued. RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else... RE: ( ) Aspergers versus HFA Aspergers, HFA, Classic autism, PDD-NOS are all under the autism spectrum. I can see if the child is DXed with autism and the school wants to say aspergers and he/she is still getting the right services " fine ". but my school wants to take my son off the autism spectrum DX and give him " OHI " which would be a Hugh disadvantage to him because the staff won't have a clear understanding of my son's autism with a classification of OHI. They still want to change him from an autism classification to OHI but added a medical DX of

autism. What sense does that make and why ? how does that benefit the school by changing my son's classification from autism to now OHI ? Rose . No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1611 - Release Date: 8/14/2008 6:20 AM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1611 - Release Date: 8/14/2008 6:20 AM