Viral protocol update: very long

[Guest guest]

<<<Great news Anita, I know you spent ages researching all this so you deserve every gain you have x 10

I'm going to start Virastop again in July and work up to the big doses for the summer hols - fingers crossed we are close to a breakthrough here, I am impatient but you knew that anyways

Mandi x

These have been the outcomes of our protocol:He no longer has trouble breathing through his nose. For a long time it was as if we lived with Darth Vader. I think this was a very long term sinus infection. About 4 weeks into the protocol his nose shrunk to its normal size and he was able to breathe clearly. That healthy state has remained. Virastop can work on both viruses and bacteria¡XI¡¦m not sure the nature of his sinus infection, but it has clearly been dealt with.He started swimming again, although he will still not take baths (or enter the bathroom for that matter). He also started gesturing he wants to go outside. This is a completely new thing. Before, it was very difficult to get him to leave the house. Now he stands in front of the door often and will play outside at a park for 90 minutes at a time, easily. This newfound energy is remarkable to us. He has also stopped being obsessive about swinging. He still loves swinging, but will not scream if you take him out of the swing before 60-80 minutes has passed. Now he will swing joyfully for 10 minutes and then spend the rest of the time climbing, sliding, etc. He once played chase with a little girl at the park and clearly loved the experience. He will play chase with us and try hiding in different places with obvious anticipation on his face when we find him.He became affectionate with his father. Prior to the viral protocol, his father was an adult he tolerated but didn¡¦t show any affection for. Now he will snuggle with his dad, rub his buzz cut, leave the house happily with him, even play games. This has been a wonderful thing for all of us.He has initiated games. The other day he started a game which involved biting his dad¡¦s finger. This has never happened before.His receptive language has improved. He now seems to understand things that meant nothing to him before.He has started to eat. My son was severely self-limited in his diet and he ate very little total. Enzymes allowed us to leave GFCF but didn¡¦t improve his appetite very much or encourage him to eat anything other than his 9 or 10 acceptable foods. About 7 weeks into the protocol, he grabbed a half a bun that had been left on the table and clearly wanted to eat it. We¡¦ve not looked back since then. Now he¡¦ll eat almost anything you put in front of him and he searches out food. He has never searched out food, even when he was hungry. Just a few days ago, he actually grabbed a cookie I had just baked from the counter and shoved the whole thing in his mouth. Now he¡¦ll eat meat. He¡¦ll look at what you¡¦re eating and ask gesture for some. He has learned to bite, whereas before you had to break all of his food into pieces or risk him shoving the entire thing whole into his mouth. Mealtimes are now consistently lovely ƒº

[Guest guest]

<<<Great news Anita, I know you spent ages researching all this so you deserve every gain you have x 10

I'm going to start Virastop again in July and work up to the big doses for the summer hols - fingers crossed we are close to a breakthrough here, I am impatient but you knew that anyways

Mandi x

These have been the outcomes of our protocol:He no longer has trouble breathing through his nose. For a long time it was as if we lived with Darth Vader. I think this was a very long term sinus infection. About 4 weeks into the protocol his nose shrunk to its normal size and he was able to breathe clearly. That healthy state has remained. Virastop can work on both viruses and bacteria¡XI¡¦m not sure the nature of his sinus infection, but it has clearly been dealt with.He started swimming again, although he will still not take baths (or enter the bathroom for that matter). He also started gesturing he wants to go outside. This is a completely new thing. Before, it was very difficult to get him to leave the house. Now he stands in front of the door often and will play outside at a park for 90 minutes at a time, easily. This newfound energy is remarkable to us. He has also stopped being obsessive about swinging. He still loves swinging, but will not scream if you take him out of the swing before 60-80 minutes has passed. Now he will swing joyfully for 10 minutes and then spend the rest of the time climbing, sliding, etc. He once played chase with a little girl at the park and clearly loved the experience. He will play chase with us and try hiding in different places with obvious anticipation on his face when we find him.He became affectionate with his father. Prior to the viral protocol, his father was an adult he tolerated but didn¡¦t show any affection for. Now he will snuggle with his dad, rub his buzz cut, leave the house happily with him, even play games. This has been a wonderful thing for all of us.He has initiated games. The other day he started a game which involved biting his dad¡¦s finger. This has never happened before.His receptive language has improved. He now seems to understand things that meant nothing to him before.He has started to eat. My son was severely self-limited in his diet and he ate very little total. Enzymes allowed us to leave GFCF but didn¡¦t improve his appetite very much or encourage him to eat anything other than his 9 or 10 acceptable foods. About 7 weeks into the protocol, he grabbed a half a bun that had been left on the table and clearly wanted to eat it. We¡¦ve not looked back since then. Now he¡¦ll eat almost anything you put in front of him and he searches out food. He has never searched out food, even when he was hungry. Just a few days ago, he actually grabbed a cookie I had just baked from the counter and shoved the whole thing in his mouth. Now he¡¦ll eat meat. He¡¦ll look at what you¡¦re eating and ask gesture for some. He has learned to bite, whereas before you had to break all of his food into pieces or risk him shoving the entire thing whole into his mouth. Mealtimes are now consistently lovely ƒº

[Guest guest]

Dear listmates,

Here is an update on my son's viral protocol, as promised.

My son clearly regressed at the age of 21 months after thimerosal

containing flu vaccinations, given while he was on antibiotics, but

in retrospect I can look back and see that he changed after his MMR

which he received very shortly after a severe bout of chicken pox.

These changes were slight. Not noticeable to us at the time, but he

found it harder to be around people and he started some repetitive

activity like opening and closing cupboard doors. I didn¡¦t notice

anything amiss at the time because he was still talking like mad,

affectionate and joyful with his family. During his regression

after the flu vaxs, he stopped talking, started self-injuring,

stopped playing, stopped showing affection, etc.

We have done two viral protocols. One I stopped after only a couple

weeks because his response frightened me. He was lethargic,

feverish, vomiting. For this one, we had worked up to only 9

Virastop a day, Sambucol, and a very small amount of OLE

I want to talk about the second viral protocol: what we did, what we

saw, the results.

My son is three. He weighs 34 pounds. He is moderately autistic.

Before starting the second VP I had my son on Sambucol, colostrum,

astragalus and Echinacea rotated, IP6, and the other more usual

assortment of immune boosters our kids tend to get daily (zinc, Vit

C, etc). My idea was that a strengthened immune system would be a

better starting point for a viral protocol.

We started very slowly on March 15, with just one Virastop a day and

a couple of Lauricidin pellets. Over time, until our last day of

the protocol on May 26, we worked up to 45 Virastop a day, 3 scoops

of Lauricidin pellets, and a high of 750 mg of OLE a day. The OLE

had to be stopped during the viral protocol as it constipated my

son, but I did use it for 3 days in the final kick of the protocol.

Because we started slowly the reactions we saw at the beginning were

quite minimal. Very small rashes that would last for 12 hours,

sometimes as small as one or two spots on the cheek. A bit more

fatigue. More yeast (a yeast protocol being a very important aspect

of the process). When we started getting to higher doses, we

started seeing bigger reactions. This was difficult as these

reactions were obviously causing my son pain. He would have sores

on his lips that didn¡¦t look like cold sores, but sort of close,

that would come and go. He developed larger rashes, generally on

his neck, that at times obviously pained or itched him (he is

nonverbal and cannot explain anything to us). He would want to

watch TV for great lengths of time, obviously feeling badly. As I

said, we did have constipation from the OLE, but one time

constipation while not using OLE. When this episode of constipation

ended with an enema-induced BM, vomiting, and then copious amounts

of the foulest smelling poop you can imagine, he seemed to be

through the worst. We raised the number of VS after that to 45,

gave 750 mg of OLE for three days, but there was no effect other

than his very sore looking lips. His poops since that time have

been normal. The kind you talk about in wonderment to other ASD

moms. They only take him a normal amount of time, rather than hours

of off and on pushing.

The way we stopped is not what ¡¦s studies seemed to show was

best. We stopped the VS cold turkey. Quite frankly, I found the

idea of maintaining my son at 45 VS a day for three weeks to be too

daunting. This was only five days ago¡Xif we do experience any

regressions that I think may be a result of our decision, I¡¦ll be

sure to post them here. We continue to give my son the sambucol,

the immune boosters, and 2 scoops of lauricidin each day. I¡¦m not

sure if we¡¦ve kicked out all the viruses, but our outcomes make me

believe that something has been dealt with to some level. There is

no apparent yeast problems using these smaller amounts of

antivirals, and I¡¦m not sure they are doing anything, but they are

easy to dose and seem to be a worthwhile effort.

These have been the outcomes of our protocol:

He no longer has trouble breathing through his nose. For a long

time it was as if we lived with Darth Vader. I think this was a

very long term sinus infection. About 4 weeks into the protocol his

nose shrunk to its normal size and he was able to breathe clearly.

That healthy state has remained. Virastop can work on both viruses

and bacteria¡XI¡¦m not sure the nature of his sinus infection, but it

has clearly been dealt with.

He started swimming again, although he will still not take baths (or

enter the bathroom for that matter). He also started gesturing he

wants to go outside. This is a completely new thing. Before, it

was very difficult to get him to leave the house. Now he stands in

front of the door often and will play outside at a park for 90

minutes at a time, easily. This newfound energy is remarkable to

us. He has also stopped being obsessive about swinging. He still

loves swinging, but will not scream if you take him out of the swing

before 60-80 minutes has passed. Now he will swing joyfully for 10

minutes and then spend the rest of the time climbing, sliding, etc.

He once played chase with a little girl at the park and clearly

loved the experience. He will play chase with us and try hiding in

different places with obvious anticipation on his face when we find

him.

He became affectionate with his father. Prior to the viral

protocol, his father was an adult he tolerated but didn¡¦t show any

affection for. Now he will snuggle with his dad, rub his buzz cut,

leave the house happily with him, even play games. This has been a

wonderful thing for all of us.

He has initiated games. The other day he started a game which

involved biting his dad¡¦s finger. This has never happened before.

His receptive language has improved. He now seems to understand

things that meant nothing to him before.

He has started to eat. My son was severely self-limited in his diet

and he ate very little total. Enzymes allowed us to leave GFCF but

didn¡¦t improve his appetite very much or encourage him to eat

anything other than his 9 or 10 acceptable foods. About 7 weeks

into the protocol, he grabbed a half a bun that had been left on the

table and clearly wanted to eat it. We¡¦ve not looked back since

then. Now he¡¦ll eat almost anything you put in front of him and he

searches out food. He has never searched out food, even when he was

hungry. Just a few days ago, he actually grabbed a cookie I had

just baked from the counter and shoved the whole thing in his

mouth. Now he¡¦ll eat meat. He¡¦ll look at what you¡¦re eating and

ask gesture for some. He has learned to bite, whereas before you

had to break all of his food into pieces or risk him shoving the

entire thing whole into his mouth. Mealtimes are now consistently

lovely ļ

Sorry for the too-long post, but I know people have lots of

questions about viral protocols.

Anita

[Guest guest]

To my knowledge there are no enzymes that can allow you to leave / skip gfcfsf diet for an autist.At best the enzymes might reduce peptide load, but not eliminate it and thererfore neither replace a gfcfsf diet !

Geir FlatabøOn 5/30/06, Anita Kugelstadt <mysuperteach@...> wrote:

My son was severely self-limited in his dietand he ate very little total. Enzymes allowed us to leave GFCF butdidn't improve his appetite very much or encourage him to eatanything other than his 9 or 10 acceptable foods. Anita

[Guest guest]

To my knowledge there are no enzymes that can allow you to leave / skip gfcfsf diet for an autist.At best the enzymes might reduce peptide load, but not eliminate it and thererfore neither replace a gfcfsf diet !

Geir FlatabøOn 5/30/06, Anita Kugelstadt <mysuperteach@...> wrote:

My son was severely self-limited in his dietand he ate very little total. Enzymes allowed us to leave GFCF butdidn't improve his appetite very much or encourage him to eatanything other than his 9 or 10 acceptable foods. Anita

[Guest guest]

Anita,

Thank you very much for sharing your lovely story. What wonderful

gains your son has made.

Sharon

>

> Dear listmates,

>

> Below you will find a very long update on the viral protocol I did

> with my son. I know people are becoming more and more interested

in

> the viral nature of autism, so this may be of some help to a few of

> you.

>

>

> My son clearly regressed at the age of 21 months after thimerosal

> containing flu vaccinations, given while he was on antibiotics, but

> in retrospect I can look back and see that he changed after his MMR

> which he received very shortly after a severe bout of chicken pox.

> These changes were slight. Not noticeable to us at the time, but

he

> found it harder to be around people and he started some repetitive

> activity like opening and closing cupboard doors. I didn¡¦t notice

> anything amiss at the time because he was still talking like mad,

> affectionate and joyful with his family. During his regression

> after the flu vaxs, he stopped talking, started self-injuring,

> stopped playing, stopped showing affection, etc.

>

> We have done two viral protocols. One I stopped after only a

couple

> weeks because his response frightened me. He was lethargic,

> feverish, vomiting. For this one, we had worked up to only 9

> Virastop a day, Sambucol, and a very small amount of OLE

>

> I want to talk about the second viral protocol: what we did, what

we

> saw, the results.

>

> My son is three. He weighs 34 pounds. He is moderately autistic.

> Before starting the second VP I had my son on Sambucol, colostrum,

> astragalus and Echinacea rotated, IP6, and the other more usual

> assortment of immune boosters our kids tend to get daily (zinc, Vit

> C, etc). My idea was that a strengthened immune system would be a

> better starting point for a viral protocol.

>

> We started very slowly on March 15, with just one Virastop a day

and

> a couple of Lauricidin pellets. Over time, until our last day of

> the protocol on May 26, we worked up to 45 Virastop a day, 3 scoops

> of Lauricidin pellets, and a high of 750 mg of OLE a day. The OLE

> had to be stopped during the viral protocol as it constipated my

> son, but I did use it for 3 days in the final kick of the protocol.

>

> Because we started slowly the reactions we saw at the beginning

were

> quite minimal. Very small rashes that would last for 12 hours,

> sometimes as small as one or two spots on the cheek. A bit more

> fatigue. More yeast (a yeast protocol being a very important

aspect

> of the process). When we started getting to higher doses, we

> started seeing bigger reactions. This was difficult as these

> reactions were obviously causing my son pain. He would have sores

> on his lips that didn¡¦t look like cold sores, but sort of close,

> that would come and go. He developed larger rashes, generally on

> his neck, that at times obviously pained or itched him (he is

> nonverbal and cannot explain anything to us). He would want to

> watch TV for great lengths of time, obviously feeling badly. As I

> said, we did have constipation from the OLE, but one time

> constipation while not using OLE. When this episode of

constipation

> ended with an enema-induced BM, vomiting, and then copious amounts

> of the foulest smelling poop you can imagine, he seemed to be

> through the worst. We raised the number of VS after that to 45,

> gave 750 mg of OLE for three days, but there was no effect other

> than his very sore looking lips. His poops since that time have

> been normal. The kind you talk about in wonderment to other ASD

> moms. They only take him a normal amount of time, rather than

hours

> of off and on pushing.

>

> The way we stopped is not what ¡¦s studies seemed to show was

> best. We stopped the VS cold turkey. Quite frankly, I found the

> idea of maintaining my son at 45 VS a day for three weeks to be too

> daunting. This was only five days ago¡Xif we do experience any

> regressions that I think may be a result of our decision, I¡¦ll be

> sure to post them here. We continue to give my son the sambucol,

> the immune boosters, and 2 scoops of lauricidin each day. I¡¦m not

> sure if we¡¦ve kicked out all the viruses, but our outcomes make me

> believe that something has been dealt with to some level. There is

> no apparent yeast problems using these smaller amounts of

> antivirals, and I¡¦m not sure they are doing anything, but they are

> easy to dose and seem to be a worthwhile effort.

>

> These have been the outcomes of our protocol:

>

> He no longer has trouble breathing through his nose. For a long

> time it was as if we lived with Darth Vader. I think this was a

> very long term sinus infection. About 4 weeks into the protocol

his

> nose shrunk to its normal size and he was able to breathe clearly.

> That healthy state has remained. Virastop can work on both viruses

> and bacteria¡XI¡¦m not sure the nature of his sinus infection, but

it

> has clearly been dealt with.

>

> He started swimming again, although he will still not take baths

(or

> enter the bathroom for that matter). He also started gesturing he

> wants to go outside. This is a completely new thing. Before, it

> was very difficult to get him to leave the house. Now he stands in

> front of the door often and will play outside at a park for 90

> minutes at a time, easily. This newfound energy is remarkable to

> us. He has also stopped being obsessive about swinging. He still

> loves swinging, but will not scream if you take him out of the

swing

> before 60-80 minutes has passed. Now he will swing joyfully for 10

> minutes and then spend the rest of the time climbing, sliding,

etc.

> He once played chase with a little girl at the park and clearly

> loved the experience. He will play chase with us and try hiding

in

> different places with obvious anticipation on his face when we find

> him.

>

> He became affectionate with his father. Prior to the viral

> protocol, his father was an adult he tolerated but didn¡¦t show any

> affection for. Now he will snuggle with his dad, rub his buzz cut,

> leave the house happily with him, even play games. This has been a

> wonderful thing for all of us.

>

> He has initiated games. The other day he started a game which

> involved biting his dad¡¦s finger. This has never happened before.

>

> His receptive language has improved. He now seems to understand

> things that meant nothing to him before.

>

> He has started to eat. My son was severely self-limited in his

diet

> and he ate very little total. Enzymes allowed us to leave GFCF but

> didn¡¦t improve his appetite very much or encourage him to eat

> anything other than his 9 or 10 acceptable foods. About 7 weeks

> into the protocol, he grabbed a half a bun that had been left on

the

> table and clearly wanted to eat it. We¡¦ve not looked back since

> then. Now he¡¦ll eat almost anything you put in front of him and

he

> searches out food. He has never searched out food, even when he

was

> hungry. Just a few days ago, he actually grabbed a cookie I had

> just baked from the counter and shoved the whole thing in his

> mouth. Now he¡¦ll eat meat. He¡¦ll look at what you¡¦re eating

and

> ask gesture for some. He has learned to bite, whereas before you

> had to break all of his food into pieces or risk him shoving the

> entire thing whole into his mouth. Mealtimes are now consistently

> lovely ļ

>

> Sorry for the too-long post, but I know people have lots of

> questions about viral protocols.

>

> Anita

>

[Guest guest]

Anita,

Thank you very much for sharing your lovely story. What wonderful

gains your son has made.

Sharon

>

> Dear listmates,

>

> Below you will find a very long update on the viral protocol I did

> with my son. I know people are becoming more and more interested

in

> the viral nature of autism, so this may be of some help to a few of

> you.

>

>

> My son clearly regressed at the age of 21 months after thimerosal

> containing flu vaccinations, given while he was on antibiotics, but

> in retrospect I can look back and see that he changed after his MMR

> which he received very shortly after a severe bout of chicken pox.

> These changes were slight. Not noticeable to us at the time, but

he

> found it harder to be around people and he started some repetitive

> activity like opening and closing cupboard doors. I didn¡¦t notice

> anything amiss at the time because he was still talking like mad,

> affectionate and joyful with his family. During his regression

> after the flu vaxs, he stopped talking, started self-injuring,

> stopped playing, stopped showing affection, etc.

>

> We have done two viral protocols. One I stopped after only a

couple

> weeks because his response frightened me. He was lethargic,

> feverish, vomiting. For this one, we had worked up to only 9

> Virastop a day, Sambucol, and a very small amount of OLE

>

> I want to talk about the second viral protocol: what we did, what

we

> saw, the results.

>

> My son is three. He weighs 34 pounds. He is moderately autistic.

> Before starting the second VP I had my son on Sambucol, colostrum,

> astragalus and Echinacea rotated, IP6, and the other more usual

> assortment of immune boosters our kids tend to get daily (zinc, Vit

> C, etc). My idea was that a strengthened immune system would be a

> better starting point for a viral protocol.

>

> We started very slowly on March 15, with just one Virastop a day

and

> a couple of Lauricidin pellets. Over time, until our last day of

> the protocol on May 26, we worked up to 45 Virastop a day, 3 scoops

> of Lauricidin pellets, and a high of 750 mg of OLE a day. The OLE

> had to be stopped during the viral protocol as it constipated my

> son, but I did use it for 3 days in the final kick of the protocol.

>

> Because we started slowly the reactions we saw at the beginning

were

> quite minimal. Very small rashes that would last for 12 hours,

> sometimes as small as one or two spots on the cheek. A bit more

> fatigue. More yeast (a yeast protocol being a very important

aspect

> of the process). When we started getting to higher doses, we

> started seeing bigger reactions. This was difficult as these

> reactions were obviously causing my son pain. He would have sores

> on his lips that didn¡¦t look like cold sores, but sort of close,

> that would come and go. He developed larger rashes, generally on

> his neck, that at times obviously pained or itched him (he is

> nonverbal and cannot explain anything to us). He would want to

> watch TV for great lengths of time, obviously feeling badly. As I

> said, we did have constipation from the OLE, but one time

> constipation while not using OLE. When this episode of

constipation

> ended with an enema-induced BM, vomiting, and then copious amounts

> of the foulest smelling poop you can imagine, he seemed to be

> through the worst. We raised the number of VS after that to 45,

> gave 750 mg of OLE for three days, but there was no effect other

> than his very sore looking lips. His poops since that time have

> been normal. The kind you talk about in wonderment to other ASD

> moms. They only take him a normal amount of time, rather than

hours

> of off and on pushing.

>

> The way we stopped is not what ¡¦s studies seemed to show was

> best. We stopped the VS cold turkey. Quite frankly, I found the

> idea of maintaining my son at 45 VS a day for three weeks to be too

> daunting. This was only five days ago¡Xif we do experience any

> regressions that I think may be a result of our decision, I¡¦ll be

> sure to post them here. We continue to give my son the sambucol,

> the immune boosters, and 2 scoops of lauricidin each day. I¡¦m not

> sure if we¡¦ve kicked out all the viruses, but our outcomes make me

> believe that something has been dealt with to some level. There is

> no apparent yeast problems using these smaller amounts of

> antivirals, and I¡¦m not sure they are doing anything, but they are

> easy to dose and seem to be a worthwhile effort.

>

> These have been the outcomes of our protocol:

>

> He no longer has trouble breathing through his nose. For a long

> time it was as if we lived with Darth Vader. I think this was a

> very long term sinus infection. About 4 weeks into the protocol

his

> nose shrunk to its normal size and he was able to breathe clearly.

> That healthy state has remained. Virastop can work on both viruses

> and bacteria¡XI¡¦m not sure the nature of his sinus infection, but

it

> has clearly been dealt with.

>

> He started swimming again, although he will still not take baths

(or

> enter the bathroom for that matter). He also started gesturing he

> wants to go outside. This is a completely new thing. Before, it

> was very difficult to get him to leave the house. Now he stands in

> front of the door often and will play outside at a park for 90

> minutes at a time, easily. This newfound energy is remarkable to

> us. He has also stopped being obsessive about swinging. He still

> loves swinging, but will not scream if you take him out of the

swing

> before 60-80 minutes has passed. Now he will swing joyfully for 10

> minutes and then spend the rest of the time climbing, sliding,

etc.

> He once played chase with a little girl at the park and clearly

> loved the experience. He will play chase with us and try hiding

in

> different places with obvious anticipation on his face when we find

> him.

>

> He became affectionate with his father. Prior to the viral

> protocol, his father was an adult he tolerated but didn¡¦t show any

> affection for. Now he will snuggle with his dad, rub his buzz cut,

> leave the house happily with him, even play games. This has been a

> wonderful thing for all of us.

>

> He has initiated games. The other day he started a game which

> involved biting his dad¡¦s finger. This has never happened before.

>

> His receptive language has improved. He now seems to understand

> things that meant nothing to him before.

>

> He has started to eat. My son was severely self-limited in his

diet

> and he ate very little total. Enzymes allowed us to leave GFCF but

> didn¡¦t improve his appetite very much or encourage him to eat

> anything other than his 9 or 10 acceptable foods. About 7 weeks

> into the protocol, he grabbed a half a bun that had been left on

the

> table and clearly wanted to eat it. We¡¦ve not looked back since

> then. Now he¡¦ll eat almost anything you put in front of him and

he

> searches out food. He has never searched out food, even when he

was

> hungry. Just a few days ago, he actually grabbed a cookie I had

> just baked from the counter and shoved the whole thing in his

> mouth. Now he¡¦ll eat meat. He¡¦ll look at what you¡¦re eating

and

> ask gesture for some. He has learned to bite, whereas before you

> had to break all of his food into pieces or risk him shoving the

> entire thing whole into his mouth. Mealtimes are now consistently

> lovely ļ

>

> Sorry for the too-long post, but I know people have lots of

> questions about viral protocols.

>

> Anita

>

[Guest guest]

Hey, thanks for posting. Nice to hear about the results it must be

so uplifting getting glimpses of your old child back... it also tells

you there is definitely something there... do you plan to go back to

some sort of antiviral protocol at some point?

here is something I just posted on mb12/valtrex that might tie in

nicely (or not, as I have come to believe more and more that the good

things people are seeing with Valtrex and OLE are not due to just their antiviral actions):

"...following the post on adenosine, adenosine receptor modulation andpossible benefits we are seeing in our kids during Valrex therapy beingrelated to regulation of those rather than purely its antiviralproperties ... here is another thought:someone mentioned to me recently that OLE has antihypertensiveproperties (protects against high blood pressure), I researched this abit as this is the direction we want to go in with our son (cannot getValtrex rx) and wanted to find out as much as possible about it. So, itturns out that OLE does have those properties, it has been used for thispurpose for centuries, and even more interestingly, its high bloodpressure regulation mechanism is thought to be related to its CALCIUMCHANNEL BLOCKING PROPERTIES! ... which brings me back to adenosine/Valtrex andg-protein coupled receptors, and to Megson's treatment protocols of VitA/Bethenacol,(possibly to LDN too, as dopamine receptors are closely related and regulatethose channels as well).OK, could that be that here we have another antiviral that helps some ofour autistic kids through mechanism other than purely attacking ofviruses????I hope this discussion continues..."Natasa

>> Dear listmates,> > Below you will find a very long update on the viral protocol I did > with my son. I know people are becoming more and more interested in > the viral nature of autism, so this may be of some help to a few of > you.> > > My son clearly regressed at the age of 21 months after thimerosal > containing flu vaccinations, given while he was on antibiotics, but > in retrospect I can look back and see that he changed after his MMR > which he received very shortly after a severe bout of chicken pox. > These changes were slight. Not noticeable to us at the time, but he > found it harder to be around people and he started some repetitive > activity like opening and closing cupboard doors. I didn��t notice > anything amiss at the time because he was still talking like mad, > affectionate and joyful with his family. During his regression > after the flu vaxs, he stopped talking, started self-injuring, > stopped playing, stopped showing affection, etc.> > We have done two viral protocols. One I stopped after only a couple > weeks because his response frightened me. He was lethargic, > feverish, vomiting. For this one, we had worked up to only 9 > Virastop a day, Sambucol, and a very small amount of OLE> > I want to talk about the second viral protocol: what we did, what we > saw, the results.> > My son is three. He weighs 34 pounds. He is moderately autistic. > Before starting the second VP I had my son on Sambucol, colostrum, > astragalus and Echinacea rotated, IP6, and the other more usual > assortment of immune boosters our kids tend to get daily (zinc, Vit > C, etc). My idea was that a strengthened immune system would be a > better starting point for a viral protocol. > > We started very slowly on March 15, with just one Virastop a day and > a couple of Lauricidin pellets. Over time, until our last day of > the protocol on May 26, we worked up to 45 Virastop a day, 3 scoops > of Lauricidin pellets, and a high of 750 mg of OLE a day. The OLE > had to be stopped during the viral protocol as it constipated my > son, but I did use it for 3 days in the final kick of the protocol.> > Because we started slowly the reactions we saw at the beginning were > quite minimal. Very small rashes that would last for 12 hours, > sometimes as small as one or two spots on the cheek. A bit more > fatigue. More yeast (a yeast protocol being a very important aspect > of the process). When we started getting to higher doses, we > started seeing bigger reactions. This was difficult as these > reactions were obviously causing my son pain. He would have sores > on his lips that didn��t look like cold sores, but sort of close, > that would come and go. He developed larger rashes, generally on > his neck, that at times obviously pained or itched him (he is > nonverbal and cannot explain anything to us). He would want to > watch TV for great lengths of time, obviously feeling badly. As I > said, we did have constipation from the OLE, but one time > constipation while not using OLE. When this episode of constipation > ended with an enema-induced BM, vomiting, and then copious amounts > of the foulest smelling poop you can imagine, he seemed to be > through the worst. We raised the number of VS after that to 45, > gave 750 mg of OLE for three days, but there was no effect other > than his very sore looking lips. His poops since that time have > been normal. The kind you talk about in wonderment to other ASD > moms. They only take him a normal amount of time, rather than hours > of off and on pushing.> > The way we stopped is not what ��s studies seemed to show was > best. We stopped the VS cold turkey. Quite frankly, I found the > idea of maintaining my son at 45 VS a day for three weeks to be too > daunting. This was only five days ago�Xif we do experience any > regressions that I think may be a result of our decision, I��ll be > sure to post them here. We continue to give my son the sambucol, > the immune boosters, and 2 scoops of lauricidin each day. I��m not > sure if we��ve kicked out all the viruses, but our outcomes make me > believe that something has been dealt with to some level. There is > no apparent yeast problems using these smaller amounts of > antivirals, and I��m not sure they are doing anything, but they are > easy to dose and seem to be a worthwhile effort.> > These have been the outcomes of our protocol:> > He no longer has trouble breathing through his nose. For a long > time it was as if we lived with Darth Vader. I think this was a > very long term sinus infection. About 4 weeks into the protocol his > nose shrunk to its normal size and he was able to breathe clearly. > That healthy state has remained. Virastop can work on both viruses > and bacteria�XI��m not sure the nature of his sinus infection, but it > has clearly been dealt with.> > He started swimming again, although he will still not take baths (or > enter the bathroom for that matter). He also started gesturing he > wants to go outside. This is a completely new thing. Before, it > was very difficult to get him to leave the house. Now he stands in > front of the door often and will play outside at a park for 90 > minutes at a time, easily. This newfound energy is remarkable to > us. He has also stopped being obsessive about swinging. He still > loves swinging, but will not scream if you take him out of the swing > before 60-80 minutes has passed. Now he will swing joyfully for 10 > minutes and then spend the rest of the time climbing, sliding, etc. > He once played chase with a little girl at the park and clearly > loved the experience. He will play chase with us and try hiding in > different places with obvious anticipation on his face when we find > him.> > He became affectionate with his father. Prior to the viral > protocol, his father was an adult he tolerated but didn��t show any > affection for. Now he will snuggle with his dad, rub his buzz cut, > leave the house happily with him, even play games. This has been a > wonderful thing for all of us.> > He has initiated games. The other day he started a game which > involved biting his dad��s finger. This has never happened before.> > His receptive language has improved. He now seems to understand > things that meant nothing to him before.> > He has started to eat. My son was severely self-limited in his diet > and he ate very little total. Enzymes allowed us to leave GFCF but > didn��t improve his appetite very much or encourage him to eat > anything other than his 9 or 10 acceptable foods. About 7 weeks > into the protocol, he grabbed a half a bun that had been left on the > table and clearly wanted to eat it. We��ve not looked back since > then. Now he��ll eat almost anything you put in front of him and he > searches out food. He has never searched out food, even when he was > hungry. Just a few days ago, he actually grabbed a cookie I had > just baked from the counter and shoved the whole thing in his > mouth. Now he��ll eat meat. He��ll look at what you��re eating and > ask gesture for some. He has learned to bite, whereas before you > had to break all of his food into pieces or risk him shoving the > entire thing whole into his mouth. Mealtimes are now consistently > lovely ��> > Sorry for the too-long post, but I know people have lots of > questions about viral protocols. > > Anita>

[Guest guest]

Hey, thanks for posting. Nice to hear about the results it must be

so uplifting getting glimpses of your old child back... it also tells

you there is definitely something there... do you plan to go back to

some sort of antiviral protocol at some point?

here is something I just posted on mb12/valtrex that might tie in

nicely (or not, as I have come to believe more and more that the good

things people are seeing with Valtrex and OLE are not due to just their antiviral actions):

"...following the post on adenosine, adenosine receptor modulation andpossible benefits we are seeing in our kids during Valrex therapy beingrelated to regulation of those rather than purely its antiviralproperties ... here is another thought:someone mentioned to me recently that OLE has antihypertensiveproperties (protects against high blood pressure), I researched this abit as this is the direction we want to go in with our son (cannot getValtrex rx) and wanted to find out as much as possible about it. So, itturns out that OLE does have those properties, it has been used for thispurpose for centuries, and even more interestingly, its high bloodpressure regulation mechanism is thought to be related to its CALCIUMCHANNEL BLOCKING PROPERTIES! ... which brings me back to adenosine/Valtrex andg-protein coupled receptors, and to Megson's treatment protocols of VitA/Bethenacol,(possibly to LDN too, as dopamine receptors are closely related and regulatethose channels as well).OK, could that be that here we have another antiviral that helps some ofour autistic kids through mechanism other than purely attacking ofviruses????I hope this discussion continues..."Natasa

>> Dear listmates,> > Below you will find a very long update on the viral protocol I did > with my son. I know people are becoming more and more interested in > the viral nature of autism, so this may be of some help to a few of > you.> > > My son clearly regressed at the age of 21 months after thimerosal > containing flu vaccinations, given while he was on antibiotics, but > in retrospect I can look back and see that he changed after his MMR > which he received very shortly after a severe bout of chicken pox. > These changes were slight. Not noticeable to us at the time, but he > found it harder to be around people and he started some repetitive > activity like opening and closing cupboard doors. I didn��t notice > anything amiss at the time because he was still talking like mad, > affectionate and joyful with his family. During his regression > after the flu vaxs, he stopped talking, started self-injuring, > stopped playing, stopped showing affection, etc.> > We have done two viral protocols. One I stopped after only a couple > weeks because his response frightened me. He was lethargic, > feverish, vomiting. For this one, we had worked up to only 9 > Virastop a day, Sambucol, and a very small amount of OLE> > I want to talk about the second viral protocol: what we did, what we > saw, the results.> > My son is three. He weighs 34 pounds. He is moderately autistic. > Before starting the second VP I had my son on Sambucol, colostrum, > astragalus and Echinacea rotated, IP6, and the other more usual > assortment of immune boosters our kids tend to get daily (zinc, Vit > C, etc). My idea was that a strengthened immune system would be a > better starting point for a viral protocol. > > We started very slowly on March 15, with just one Virastop a day and > a couple of Lauricidin pellets. Over time, until our last day of > the protocol on May 26, we worked up to 45 Virastop a day, 3 scoops > of Lauricidin pellets, and a high of 750 mg of OLE a day. The OLE > had to be stopped during the viral protocol as it constipated my > son, but I did use it for 3 days in the final kick of the protocol.> > Because we started slowly the reactions we saw at the beginning were > quite minimal. Very small rashes that would last for 12 hours, > sometimes as small as one or two spots on the cheek. A bit more > fatigue. More yeast (a yeast protocol being a very important aspect > of the process). When we started getting to higher doses, we > started seeing bigger reactions. This was difficult as these > reactions were obviously causing my son pain. He would have sores > on his lips that didn��t look like cold sores, but sort of close, > that would come and go. He developed larger rashes, generally on > his neck, that at times obviously pained or itched him (he is > nonverbal and cannot explain anything to us). He would want to > watch TV for great lengths of time, obviously feeling badly. As I > said, we did have constipation from the OLE, but one time > constipation while not using OLE. When this episode of constipation > ended with an enema-induced BM, vomiting, and then copious amounts > of the foulest smelling poop you can imagine, he seemed to be > through the worst. We raised the number of VS after that to 45, > gave 750 mg of OLE for three days, but there was no effect other > than his very sore looking lips. His poops since that time have > been normal. The kind you talk about in wonderment to other ASD > moms. They only take him a normal amount of time, rather than hours > of off and on pushing.> > The way we stopped is not what ��s studies seemed to show was > best. We stopped the VS cold turkey. Quite frankly, I found the > idea of maintaining my son at 45 VS a day for three weeks to be too > daunting. This was only five days ago�Xif we do experience any > regressions that I think may be a result of our decision, I��ll be > sure to post them here. We continue to give my son the sambucol, > the immune boosters, and 2 scoops of lauricidin each day. I��m not > sure if we��ve kicked out all the viruses, but our outcomes make me > believe that something has been dealt with to some level. There is > no apparent yeast problems using these smaller amounts of > antivirals, and I��m not sure they are doing anything, but they are > easy to dose and seem to be a worthwhile effort.> > These have been the outcomes of our protocol:> > He no longer has trouble breathing through his nose. For a long > time it was as if we lived with Darth Vader. I think this was a > very long term sinus infection. About 4 weeks into the protocol his > nose shrunk to its normal size and he was able to breathe clearly. > That healthy state has remained. Virastop can work on both viruses > and bacteria�XI��m not sure the nature of his sinus infection, but it > has clearly been dealt with.> > He started swimming again, although he will still not take baths (or > enter the bathroom for that matter). He also started gesturing he > wants to go outside. This is a completely new thing. Before, it > was very difficult to get him to leave the house. Now he stands in > front of the door often and will play outside at a park for 90 > minutes at a time, easily. This newfound energy is remarkable to > us. He has also stopped being obsessive about swinging. He still > loves swinging, but will not scream if you take him out of the swing > before 60-80 minutes has passed. Now he will swing joyfully for 10 > minutes and then spend the rest of the time climbing, sliding, etc. > He once played chase with a little girl at the park and clearly > loved the experience. He will play chase with us and try hiding in > different places with obvious anticipation on his face when we find > him.> > He became affectionate with his father. Prior to the viral > protocol, his father was an adult he tolerated but didn��t show any > affection for. Now he will snuggle with his dad, rub his buzz cut, > leave the house happily with him, even play games. This has been a > wonderful thing for all of us.> > He has initiated games. The other day he started a game which > involved biting his dad��s finger. This has never happened before.> > His receptive language has improved. He now seems to understand > things that meant nothing to him before.> > He has started to eat. My son was severely self-limited in his diet > and he ate very little total. Enzymes allowed us to leave GFCF but > didn��t improve his appetite very much or encourage him to eat > anything other than his 9 or 10 acceptable foods. About 7 weeks > into the protocol, he grabbed a half a bun that had been left on the > table and clearly wanted to eat it. We��ve not looked back since > then. Now he��ll eat almost anything you put in front of him and he > searches out food. He has never searched out food, even when he was > hungry. Just a few days ago, he actually grabbed a cookie I had > just baked from the counter and shoved the whole thing in his > mouth. Now he��ll eat meat. He��ll look at what you��re eating and > ask gesture for some. He has learned to bite, whereas before you > had to break all of his food into pieces or risk him shoving the > entire thing whole into his mouth. Mealtimes are now consistently > lovely ��> > Sorry for the too-long post, but I know people have lots of > questions about viral protocols. > > Anita>

[Guest guest]

That was Beautiful. Only a mother that counts every morsel that her kid consumes

and tracks every bowel movement can truly appreciate this. Thank You for

posting.

Viral protocol update: very long

Dear listmates,

Here is an update on my son's viral protocol, as promised.

My son clearly regressed at the age of 21 months after thimerosal

containing flu vaccinations, given while he was on antibiotics, but

in retrospect I can look back and see that he changed after his MMR

which he received very shortly after a severe bout of chicken pox.

These changes were slight. Not noticeable to us at the time, but he

found it harder to be around people and he started some repetitive

activity like opening and closing cupboard doors. I didn¡¦t notice

anything amiss at the time because he was still talking like mad,

affectionate and joyful with his family. During his regression

after the flu vaxs, he stopped talking, started self-injuring,

stopped playing, stopped showing affection, etc.

We have done two viral protocols. One I stopped after only a couple

weeks because his response frightened me. He was lethargic,

feverish, vomiting. For this one, we had worked up to only 9

Virastop a day, Sambucol, and a very small amount of OLE

I want to talk about the second viral protocol: what we did, what we

saw, the results.

My son is three. He weighs 34 pounds. He is moderately autistic.

Before starting the second VP I had my son on Sambucol, colostrum,

astragalus and Echinacea rotated, IP6, and the other more usual

assortment of immune boosters our kids tend to get daily (zinc, Vit

C, etc). My idea was that a strengthened immune system would be a

better starting point for a viral protocol.

We started very slowly on March 15, with just one Virastop a day and

a couple of Lauricidin pellets. Over time, until our last day of

the protocol on May 26, we worked up to 45 Virastop a day, 3 scoops

of Lauricidin pellets, and a high of 750 mg of OLE a day. The OLE

had to be stopped during the viral protocol as it constipated my

son, but I did use it for 3 days in the final kick of the protocol.

Because we started slowly the reactions we saw at the beginning were

quite minimal. Very small rashes that would last for 12 hours,

sometimes as small as one or two spots on the cheek. A bit more

fatigue. More yeast (a yeast protocol being a very important aspect

of the process). When we started getting to higher doses, we

started seeing bigger reactions. This was difficult as these

reactions were obviously causing my son pain. He would have sores

on his lips that didn¡¦t look like cold sores, but sort of close,

that would come and go. He developed larger rashes, generally on

his neck, that at times obviously pained or itched him (he is

nonverbal and cannot explain anything to us). He would want to

watch TV for great lengths of time, obviously feeling badly. As I

said, we did have constipation from the OLE, but one time

constipation while not using OLE. When this episode of constipation

ended with an enema-induced BM, vomiting, and then copious amounts

of the foulest smelling poop you can imagine, he seemed to be

through the worst. We raised the number of VS after that to 45,

gave 750 mg of OLE for three days, but there was no effect other

than his very sore looking lips. His poops since that time have

been normal. The kind you talk about in wonderment to other ASD

moms. They only take him a normal amount of time, rather than hours

of off and on pushing.

The way we stopped is not what ¡¦s studies seemed to show was

best. We stopped the VS cold turkey. Quite frankly, I found the

idea of maintaining my son at 45 VS a day for three weeks to be too

daunting. This was only five days ago¡Xif we do experience any

regressions that I think may be a result of our decision, I¡¦ll be

sure to post them here. We continue to give my son the sambucol,

the immune boosters, and 2 scoops of lauricidin each day. I¡¦m not

sure if we¡¦ve kicked out all the viruses, but our outcomes make me

believe that something has been dealt with to some level. There is

no apparent yeast problems using these smaller amounts of

antivirals, and I¡¦m not sure they are doing anything, but they are

easy to dose and seem to be a worthwhile effort.

These have been the outcomes of our protocol:

He no longer has trouble breathing through his nose. For a long

time it was as if we lived with Darth Vader. I think this was a

very long term sinus infection. About 4 weeks into the protocol his

nose shrunk to its normal size and he was able to breathe clearly.

That healthy state has remained. Virastop can work on both viruses

and bacteria¡XI¡¦m not sure the nature of his sinus infection, but it

has clearly been dealt with.

He started swimming again, although he will still not take baths (or

enter the bathroom for that matter). He also started gesturing he

wants to go outside. This is a completely new thing. Before, it

was very difficult to get him to leave the house. Now he stands in

front of the door often and will play outside at a park for 90

minutes at a time, easily. This newfound energy is remarkable to

us. He has also stopped being obsessive about swinging. He still

loves swinging, but will not scream if you take him out of the swing

before 60-80 minutes has passed. Now he will swing joyfully for 10

minutes and then spend the rest of the time climbing, sliding, etc.

He once played chase with a little girl at the park and clearly

loved the experience. He will play chase with us and try hiding in

different places with obvious anticipation on his face when we find

him.

He became affectionate with his father. Prior to the viral

protocol, his father was an adult he tolerated but didn¡¦t show any

affection for. Now he will snuggle with his dad, rub his buzz cut,

leave the house happily with him, even play games. This has been a

wonderful thing for all of us.

He has initiated games. The other day he started a game which

involved biting his dad¡¦s finger. This has never happened before.

His receptive language has improved. He now seems to understand

things that meant nothing to him before.

He has started to eat. My son was severely self-limited in his diet

and he ate very little total. Enzymes allowed us to leave GFCF but

didn¡¦t improve his appetite very much or encourage him to eat

anything other than his 9 or 10 acceptable foods. About 7 weeks

into the protocol, he grabbed a half a bun that had been left on the

table and clearly wanted to eat it. We¡¦ve not looked back since

then. Now he¡¦ll eat almost anything you put in front of him and he

searches out food. He has never searched out food, even when he was

hungry. Just a few days ago, he actually grabbed a cookie I had

just baked from the counter and shoved the whole thing in his

mouth. Now he¡¦ll eat meat. He¡¦ll look at what you¡¦re eating and

ask gesture for some. He has learned to bite, whereas before you

had to break all of his food into pieces or risk him shoving the

entire thing whole into his mouth. Mealtimes are now consistently

lovely fº

Sorry for the too-long post, but I know people have lots of

questions about viral protocols.

Anita

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 31/05/2006 19:24:11 GMT Daylight Time, mysuperteach@... writes:

Of course, it will require some bending of the rules to get it, as my ped will not prescribe it.

>>>You can buy it on line - wink!

You can add the DAN! Dr to the girl but can't alter the behaviour of 7 years LOL

Its expesnive which ever way you get it. I intend that the NHS sahll pay for Sam;s by hook or by crook

Mandi (Vickys twin LOL)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 31/05/2006 19:24:11 GMT Daylight Time, mysuperteach@... writes:

Of course, it will require some bending of the rules to get it, as my ped will not prescribe it.

>>>You can buy it on line - wink!

You can add the DAN! Dr to the girl but can't alter the behaviour of 7 years LOL

Its expesnive which ever way you get it. I intend that the NHS sahll pay for Sam;s by hook or by crook

Mandi (Vickys twin LOL)

[Guest guest]

>

> Hey, thanks for posting. Nice to hear about the results it must

be so

> uplifting getting glimpses of your old child back... it also tells

you

> there is definitely something there... do you plan to go back to

some

> sort of antiviral protocol at some point?

>

> here is something I just posted on mb12/valtrex that might tie in

nicely

> (or not, as I have come to believe more and more that the good

things

> people are seeing with Valtrex and OLE are not due to just their

> antiviral actions):

>

Thanks for the kind words Natasa. We've many things planned for the

next few months. After those " for sure " things, I have Valtrex

and/or some other natural antivirals in my " possible " list. Chicken

pox is a herpes virus, and I think it was implicated in my son's

regression. It isn't very well understood yet, but if you've been

following Dan Olmsted's Age of Autism stuff, it's pretty obvious

that chicken pox is part of the picture for a subset of kids. So,

since Valtrex is intended for herpes virus, it seems a likely

candidate for further antivirals. Of course, it will require some

bending of the rules to get it, as my ped will not prescribe it.

About your comments on the treatments working in ways other than

just attacking the viruses. I think that is very true, and likely

very true for all of the antivirals we're trying with success. I

don't come even close to understanding any of it, but certainly

antiviral protocol success stories are becoming more common in our

community. Wouldn't it be nice if some of the genetic research

money was being used to understand this instead?

Anita

[Guest guest]

>

> Hey, thanks for posting. Nice to hear about the results it must

be so

> uplifting getting glimpses of your old child back... it also tells

you

> there is definitely something there... do you plan to go back to

some

> sort of antiviral protocol at some point?

>

> here is something I just posted on mb12/valtrex that might tie in

nicely

> (or not, as I have come to believe more and more that the good

things

> people are seeing with Valtrex and OLE are not due to just their

> antiviral actions):

>

Thanks for the kind words Natasa. We've many things planned for the

next few months. After those " for sure " things, I have Valtrex

and/or some other natural antivirals in my " possible " list. Chicken

pox is a herpes virus, and I think it was implicated in my son's

regression. It isn't very well understood yet, but if you've been

following Dan Olmsted's Age of Autism stuff, it's pretty obvious

that chicken pox is part of the picture for a subset of kids. So,

since Valtrex is intended for herpes virus, it seems a likely

candidate for further antivirals. Of course, it will require some

bending of the rules to get it, as my ped will not prescribe it.

About your comments on the treatments working in ways other than

just attacking the viruses. I think that is very true, and likely

very true for all of the antivirals we're trying with success. I

don't come even close to understanding any of it, but certainly

antiviral protocol success stories are becoming more common in our

community. Wouldn't it be nice if some of the genetic research

money was being used to understand this instead?

Anita

[Guest guest]

>

>

> <<<Great news Anita, I know you spent ages researching all this so

you

> deserve every gain you have x 10

>

> I'm going to start Virastop again in July and work up to the big

doses for

> the summer hols - fingers crossed we are close to a breakthrough

here, I am

> impatient but you knew that anyways

>

> Mandi x

>

Thanks Mandi :-) Is your Sam much of a pill swallower? I ask because

if you do get up to the big doses as we did, it becomes a bit

ridiculous and there is the other VS product that is supposed to be

somewhere between 2 to 3 times stronger. It might be worth considering

as one would be giving 1/2 to 1/3 the # of capsules, saving a great

deal of stress and money too. I'm going to be testing it on myself

in the near future I hope.

And I think your breakthrough is very near. So many things have come

together in the last little bit, you just need a bit more patience :-)

Anita

[Guest guest]

>

>

> <<<Great news Anita, I know you spent ages researching all this so

you

> deserve every gain you have x 10

>

> I'm going to start Virastop again in July and work up to the big

doses for

> the summer hols - fingers crossed we are close to a breakthrough

here, I am

> impatient but you knew that anyways

>

> Mandi x

>

Thanks Mandi :-) Is your Sam much of a pill swallower? I ask because

if you do get up to the big doses as we did, it becomes a bit

ridiculous and there is the other VS product that is supposed to be

somewhere between 2 to 3 times stronger. It might be worth considering

as one would be giving 1/2 to 1/3 the # of capsules, saving a great

deal of stress and money too. I'm going to be testing it on myself

in the near future I hope.

And I think your breakthrough is very near. So many things have come

together in the last little bit, you just need a bit more patience :-)

Anita