Re: How to get ds to cooperate in blood withdrawal

[Guest guest]

Some people administer Valium an hour before a blood draw. Also, Valerian

Root is Nature's Valium.

Pamela

" Courage is doing what you're afraid to do. There can be no courage unless

you're scared. "

Eddie Rickenbacker, top US fighter ace, WWI

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of gol sun

Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 12:10 PM

Subject: [ ] How to get ds to cooperate in blood withdrawal

Hi,

Ds is now quite a sizeable kid (1.33m tall) & there's no way I'm able

to hold him still for blood withdrawal. The last time I'm able to do it

was when he was less than 3 years old.

Using general anaesthesia is something we prefer not do resort to.

Even with pasting a couple wires on his ear/head for neurofeedback,

he refused till we did it at home first to get him used to it.

I can't possibly prick him with needles at home frequently till he

get used to it so if there's any method you can think of, kindly

share.

Thanks

G

[Guest guest]

Emla cream on several potential puncture sites beforehand, talking to him about

rewards,

taping his arm to a board so he can't bend it or flip it around, and engaging

the help of

people big enough to hold him all come to mind.

Try to go to a CHILDREN'S hospital and talk to them about who is good at this.

Or talk to some paramedics/EMT's about how to arrange it, some may come to your

home

and do it for a fee. He may be more comfortable doing it at home.

Andy

> Hi,

>

> Ds is now quite a sizeable kid (1.33m tall) & there's no way I'm able

> to hold him still for blood withdrawal. The last time I'm able to do it

> was when he was less than 3 years old.

>

> Using general anaesthesia is something we prefer not do resort to.

>

> Even with pasting a couple wires on his ear/head for neurofeedback,

> he refused till we did it at home first to get him used to it.

>

> I can't possibly prick him with needles at home frequently till he

> get used to it so if there's any method you can think of, kindly

> share.

>

>

>

> Thanks

> G

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

G, here is a post I wrote a few weeks ago that may have some helpful

information for you.

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/190517.html

take care

Rene

>

> Hi,

>

> Ds is now quite a sizeable kid (1.33m tall) & there's no way I'm able

> to hold him still for blood withdrawal.

[Guest guest]

Ditto on the visit to the Children's Hospital for difficult blood

draws. They deal with resistance all of the time and will not be

freaked out by anything your child does in putting up a fight. A

Children's lab will have staff and props to help you.

Call ahead of time!!!!! Let them know what labs you are drawing so

they can prepare the orders and expedite the process as much as

possible. Ask when the best time is to come (least people in line in

front of you) and request their most experienced phlebotomist.

Believe me, the lab will greatly appreciate the heads up, and so will

you.

I bribed my son big time. I don't know what level of functioning

your child is at, but as my son became less and less Autistic he

fought more and more. I brought his favorite candy with me and he

either ate it while they drew the blood or he held on to it for dear

life. I talked again and again about what he was going to get as a

reward.

It is still heartbreaking to watch him get so scared. I try to

minimize the number of times we get blood draws now. Our DAN! doctor

wants us to have CBCs and Metabolic Panel labs run every 3 months

while chelating. After the first 2 times showed very normal

liver/kidney function results I told her we would be drawing labs

every 6 months unless he took a turn for the worse or if we switched

chelators. So far, that seems to be a very successful plan for us.

Actually, the last time they drew blood (vaccine titers) he was much

better. It CAN get better!

EMLA cream did nothing for my child. He wasn't hurting, just very,

very anxious and scared. He started to decompensate when we pulled

in to the parking lot. I think EMLA will work for the kids who are

OK until the poke; the kids who can be distracted so they don't even

see the needle coming. It just wasn't working for us, but maybe you

will get better results.

Good luck!

Pam

p.s. I like the idea of in-home blood draws. Wish I would have

thought of that a few years back.

>

> Emla cream on several potential puncture sites beforehand, talking

to him about rewards,

> taping his arm to a board so he can't bend it or flip it around,

and engaging the help of

> people big enough to hold him all come to mind.

>

> Try to go to a CHILDREN'S hospital and talk to them about who is

good at this.

>

> Or talk to some paramedics/EMT's about how to arrange it, some may

come to your home

> and do it for a fee. He may be more comfortable doing it at home.

>

> Andy

>

> > Hi,

> >

> > Ds is now quite a sizeable kid (1.33m tall) & there's no way I'm

able

> > to hold him still for blood withdrawal. The last time I'm able

to do it

> > was when he was less than 3 years old.

> >

> > Using general anaesthesia is something we prefer not do resort to.

> >

> > Even with pasting a couple wires on his ear/head for

neurofeedback,

> > he refused till we did it at home first to get him used to it.

> >

> > I can't possibly prick him with needles at home frequently till he

> > get used to it so if there's any method you can think of, kindly

> > share.

> >

> >

> >

> > Thanks

> > G

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Are the blood draws really necessary?

S S

<p>Hi,<br>

<br>

Ds is now quite a sizeable kid (1.33m tall) & there's no way I'm able<br>

to hold him still for blood withdrawal. The last time I'm able to do it<br>

was when he was less than 3 years old.<br>

<br>

Using general anaesthesia is something we prefer not do resort to.<br>

<br>

Even with pasting a couple wires on his ear/head for neurofeedback,<br>

he refused till we did it at home first to get him used to it.<br>

<br>

I can't possibly prick him with needles at home frequently till he<br>

get used to it so if there's any method you can think of, kindly<br>

share.<br>

<br>

Thanks<br>

G<br>

_______________________________________________

Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com

The most personalized portal on the Web!

[Guest guest]

G

I feel for you... My daughter is not only terrified of needles but

can't stand anyone in a white coat that even resembles a doctor. Her

last blood draw was a nightmare. She is 51 lbs and it took 4 people

to hold her down and one person to draw the blood. She was even

wrapped in a sheet and basically tied to the table. She even tore

the needle out of her arm and they had to stick her again. I can't

even begin to explain how much it hurt me to do that to her. But I

knew it had to be done. Talking to her about it beforehand would

have only worried her to no end. Then when one of the test came back

abnormal and we had to retest. I was thinking no way am I doing that

to her....Thank goodness they only had to do a finger prick for that

one.... Sorry I don't have any advice for you. All I can say is

maybe explain to the lab about your son and be sure they have people

and/or equipment there to handle him....

Let me know how it goes...Bethany

>

> Hi,

>

> Ds is now quite a sizeable kid (1.33m tall) & there's no way I'm

able

> to hold him still for blood withdrawal. The last time I'm able to

do it

> was when he was less than 3 years old.

>

> Using general anaesthesia is something we prefer not do resort to.

>

> Even with pasting a couple wires on his ear/head for neurofeedback,

> he refused till we did it at home first to get him used to it.

>

> I can't possibly prick him with needles at home frequently till he

> get used to it so if there's any method you can think of, kindly

> share.

>

>

>

> Thanks

> G

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

We used to have a horrible time with blood draws. When my grandson

was in the process of being dx'd, his ped ordered bloodwork because

we were concerned about a lump that developed on his neck. Turned

out to be low iron and having had mono sometime in that past

year..in other words, vaccines dammaged his immune system.

Unfortunately, he needed follow up bloodwork and each time was worse

than the first. The biggest problem was that they used a full sized

adult needle on him at that particular clinic. He was terrified, and

they were downright mean to him...he was only three!!!!

When we went to our DAN!, he recommended a child friendly lab at the

local hospital, the use of Emla cream AND the use of Pediatric

needles. The kind they use are very tiny and look like a

butterfly...or airplane as he now refers to it. Funny thing is, they

are no different from the type they use when my dh gets regular

bloodwork done. I see no reason why anyone would use the standard

full sized needles anymore.

My grandson used to be a screaming maniac. It took all of my

strength to hold him on my lap, and two techs to hold his arm. We

use emla on both arms in case of a vein problem. Now, at 5, he just

walks in, tells them which arm he prefers, watches as " the airplane

gets fuel to take off " , and then tells them what color bandage that

he wants. He picks out a sticker and always says " thank you " ! Last

week, a new tech, asked the regular phlebotomist to hold onto his

arm while she did the draw. She actually laughed and said, " This is

Noah... he doesn't need anyone to hold onto him. He's great " ! She

remembers the early days, and she is part of the reason why he is so

good now!

I hope that things get better for you. Someone mentioned that they

do not go for bloodwork as often as recommended. We don't either.

Not because of neeedle issues, but because insurance hasn't covered

a single penny and quite honestly, we can't afford to go that often.

We should be going every other month, but only go every 3 or 4

months. Our DAN! is perfectly fine with that.

Bottom line...pick a child friendly lab, use emla cream and demand

the use of pediatric butterfly type needles. Any lab that uses full

sized adult needles on our kids is behind the times. Remember that I

mentioned they use this type of needle at the lab my dh goes to?

Well, he is 6' tall and 220 lbs! If they can successfully draw blood

from him with that type of needle, they can certainly use it on any

of our kids!

Good luck to you and I hope that things begin to get easier for your

child!

-Trish

>

> Hi,

>

> Ds is now quite a sizeable kid (1.33m tall) & there's no way I'm

able

> to hold him still for blood withdrawal. The last time I'm able to

do it

> was when he was less than 3 years old.

>

> Using general anaesthesia is something we prefer not do resort to.

>

> Even with pasting a couple wires on his ear/head for neurofeedback,

> he refused till we did it at home first to get him used to it.

>

> I can't possibly prick him with needles at home frequently till he

> get used to it so if there's any method you can think of, kindly

> share.

>

>

>

> Thanks

> G

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

We got Elmo out and had pretend to give Elmo " shots " . We did this a

lot. We had give Elmo a treat when he got his shots. We had Elmo say

" ow--but that wasn't so bad, " .

THEN when we went to the hospital where the lab was, we told he could

pick any toy. Luckily he picked something not too expensive! I reminded him

several times about the toy and how he would get it after he got his shot (I

didn' t say blood drawn because from his perspective it's more like a

shot--(he hasn't had a shot since we figured this out don't worry!). To be

honest, I can't remember if we told him his blood would come out or not, but

it turned out to be fascinating to him, not an issue. I could see it

freaking out another child though so you might want to address it somehow if

you do this Elmo technique.

He did GREAT! It was unbelievable. I gave him an immediate GFCF chocolate

(dark chocolate--no milk)! Then we practically ran to the gift store and he

picked out his toy. I personally am very phobic about blood so it kills me

that now he is a trooper and I'm the one who can't stand to look.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Trish

Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 10:20 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: How to get ds to cooperate in blood withdrawal

We used to have a horrible time with blood draws. When my grandson

was in the process of being dx'd, his ped ordered bloodwork because

we were concerned about a lump that developed on his neck. Turned

out to be low iron and having had mono sometime in that past

year..in other words, vaccines dammaged his immune system.

Unfortunately, he needed follow up bloodwork and each time was worse

than the first. The biggest problem was that they used a full sized

adult needle on him at that particular clinic. He was terrified, and

they were downright mean to him...he was only three!!!!

When we went to our DAN!, he recommended a child friendly lab at the

local hospital, the use of Emla cream AND the use of Pediatric

needles. The kind they use are very tiny and look like a

butterfly...or airplane as he now refers to it. Funny thing is, they

are no different from the type they use when my dh gets regular

bloodwork done. I see no reason why anyone would use the standard

full sized needles anymore.

My grandson used to be a screaming maniac. It took all of my

strength to hold him on my lap, and two techs to hold his arm. We

use emla on both arms in case of a vein problem. Now, at 5, he just

walks in, tells them which arm he prefers, watches as " the airplane

gets fuel to take off " , and then tells them what color bandage that

he wants. He picks out a sticker and always says " thank you " ! Last

week, a new tech, asked the regular phlebotomist to hold onto his

arm while she did the draw. She actually laughed and said, " This is

Noah... he doesn't need anyone to hold onto him. He's great " ! She

remembers the early days, and she is part of the reason why he is so

good now!

I hope that things get better for you. Someone mentioned that they

do not go for bloodwork as often as recommended. We don't either.

Not because of neeedle issues, but because insurance hasn't covered

a single penny and quite honestly, we can't afford to go that often.

We should be going every other month, but only go every 3 or 4

months. Our DAN! is perfectly fine with that.

Bottom line...pick a child friendly lab, use emla cream and demand

the use of pediatric butterfly type needles. Any lab that uses full

sized adult needles on our kids is behind the times. Remember that I

mentioned they use this type of needle at the lab my dh goes to?

Well, he is 6' tall and 220 lbs! If they can successfully draw blood

from him with that type of needle, they can certainly use it on any

of our kids!

Good luck to you and I hope that things begin to get easier for your

child!

-Trish

>

> Hi,

>

> Ds is now quite a sizeable kid (1.33m tall) & there's no way I'm

able

> to hold him still for blood withdrawal. The last time I'm able to

do it

> was when he was less than 3 years old.

>

> Using general anaesthesia is something we prefer not do resort to.

>

> Even with pasting a couple wires on his ear/head for neurofeedback,

> he refused till we did it at home first to get him used to it.

>

> I can't possibly prick him with needles at home frequently till he

> get used to it so if there's any method you can think of, kindly

> share.

>

>

>

> Thanks

> G

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It was suggested that I buy a doctor's kit (toy!) for my son to play

with at home, as well as some little books that talk about going to

the doctor (Berenstein Bears or something more realistic with

pictures of real children). Honestly, I think it did help a little.

I never bought the books, but I noticed my son would flip through the

pages of similar books at the dentist's office prior to cleaning (I

heard him ask his brother to read it).

If your daughter has pretend play skills, this is a nice way to talk

about fears without actually having a real doctor present. For us,

it allowed him to work through anxiety, on his own terms, and in a

safe environment with fun toys. He got to be the doc, I had to be

the patient. He NEVER wants to be the patient!

My son is also one that gets anxious at the mention of doctor. I

think if you can get her past the need for full restraints you have a

shot at getting over a major part of the fear. I can imagine the

experience of restraint makes it even worse (but you gotta do what

you gotta do).

Pam

>

> G

>

> I feel for you... My daughter is not only terrified of needles but

> can't stand anyone in a white coat that even resembles a doctor.

Her

> last blood draw was a nightmare. She is 51 lbs and it took 4

people

> to hold her down and one person to draw the blood. She was even

> wrapped in a sheet and basically tied to the table. She even tore

> the needle out of her arm and they had to stick her again. I can't

> even begin to explain how much it hurt me to do that to her. But I

> knew it had to be done. Talking to her about it beforehand would

> have only worried her to no end. Then when one of the test came

back

> abnormal and we had to retest. I was thinking no way am I doing

that

> to her....Thank goodness they only had to do a finger prick for

that

> one.... Sorry I don't have any advice for you. All I can say is

> maybe explain to the lab about your son and be sure they have

people

> and/or equipment there to handle him....

>

> Let me know how it goes...Bethany

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey, I think you're on to something, Carol! Next year's toy of the

year can be " Draw My Blood Elmo " or " Phlebodomy Elmo " ...or maybe we

can move on to the Count... " The Blood Count " who says " Von, Two,

Three goot veins to take my blood...hah, hah, hah " !!!! " Yes, I love

to count blood cell in my lab " !!!! The doll could come complete with

a tube of emla cream, retractable little butterfly needles, colorful

bandages, stickers, little toys and a lab coat for the child.

OK, where do we apply for the patent? At least we'd cover the market

for 1 in every 166 children!!!!!

Oh, what we go through for our kids... but it worked for

...great idea!

-Trish

>

> We got Elmo out and had pretend to give Elmo " shots " . We did

this a

> lot. We had give Elmo a treat when he got his shots. We had

Elmo say

> " ow--but that wasn't so bad, " .

>

> THEN when we went to the hospital where the lab was, we told

he could

> pick any toy. Luckily he picked something not too expensive! I

reminded him

> several times about the toy and how he would get it after he got

his shot (I

> didn' t say blood drawn because from his perspective it's more

like a

> shot--(he hasn't had a shot since we figured this out don't

worry!). To be

> honest, I can't remember if we told him his blood would come out

or not, but

> it turned out to be fascinating to him, not an issue. I could see

it

> freaking out another child though so you might want to address it

somehow if

> you do this Elmo technique.

>

> He did GREAT! It was unbelievable. I gave him an immediate GFCF

chocolate

> (dark chocolate--no milk)! Then we practically ran to the gift

store and he

> picked out his toy. I personally am very phobic about blood so it

kills me

> that now he is a trooper and I'm the one who can't stand to look.

>

[Guest guest]

Lots of nurses and techs now wear kid-friendly print tops rather than white

coats.

S S

<niceneezer@<wbr>...> <br>

wrote:<br>

><br>

> G<br>

> <br>

> I feel for you... My daughter is not only terrified of needles but <br>

> can't stand anyone in a white coat that even resembles a doctor. <br>

_______________________________________________

Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com

The most personalized portal on the Web!

[Guest guest]

As far as getting blood drawn, it may not be a pleasant thing to

experience but sometimes we just have to do so. However it is very

important for the first time that you to do all things possibly to

make it the least invasive as possible. . If not it can become

worse each time and even remembered as a traumatic experience that

will be not only hard for kiddo to handle but parents will dread to

have to go through it again. We had to have this done years ago, it

was traumatic time so thereafter developed a bit of a protocol that

I would like to share. Possibly may give a few ideas. Every child

may handle things differently thus may be able to transition better

according to their own needs. Best is to customize it for them. I

believe as children get older you will be able to accommodate in

their own special way. But when they are young and do not understand

sometimes you may need to just protect them while you just go

through what you have to do. Here is something I wrote in the past

about what we did that helped us…

It took 5 people to get blood from my little guy and it wasn't what

I would call a pleasant experience.

We know about unpleasant and have gone through this years ago. Glad

we don't do often but sometimes we must... IMO if you go to regular

facility and they are not sensitive and/ or callused your kiddo will

never forget. If you need to repeat this often it can get worse

especially with our kiddo's … .. So best is to implement only when

you are ready to support the child with his/ her specific needs.

Best is to know in advance and also set something up with the

facility before hand. If you need to reinforce child, distract

them or provide them with the best soothing possibly, you will be

prepared to do so. Often times you will have best care if you get

it done at a children's hospital. Or very simple get a script and

go to the blood lab/ outpatient patient part of a hospital that does

this every day. Many blood labs are not familiar with working with

our children even if they say they are. At least if you are in a

pediatric care facility they will be more sensitive to you and the

child and willing to work with you. If you have to go to local

hospital, Then request them to do it in the pediatric section.

Again they will work with you, if not than don't do it there at that

time. You know your child the best and how to keep them calm. So I

trust you have the best ideas for your own kiddo.

Being in a foreign place getting strangers to restrict your child

can be the scariest part of the experience all together. Best is to

be proactive in this so child will not feel threatened in anyway.

Just for an Idea what we did. One of the best ways that is not just

all grabs and detain is to sit down in a chair yourself. Wrap child

in a sheet as mom hugs them chest to chest, have Dad hold legs while

he faces child and is able to calm child with soothing words as

well. Than have at least 2-3 others available for the arms if

necessary while a PROFESIONAL at getting blood from a child draws

the blood. Im telling you my poor kiddo had a tough time, as they

couldn't even find his vein after many attempts. I believe it's all

in how good they are to how much success you will have. Ask even

demand for a technician that is GOOD. If it goes good the first

time than each time thereafter should get better.

I know it sounds like a rough experience BC it was for us. And don't

want it to be for others My kiddo at age 3 was stronger than a full

grown 200 pound man when he did not want to have something done to

him….. You wouldn't think that when he was barely 30 pounds at the

time. ... I guess that is why we never given thought to do IV's…..

still thankful for that. . Best yet my son has never associated a

white coat to a bad experience, (well he dosn't know any better yet)

Perhaps its BC it's been years since one has even touched him. They

have done enough damage as it is. So we are doing just fine right

now without em.

As always my best

May God bless everyone here

Kenny V

> >

> > Emla cream on several potential puncture sites beforehand,

talking

> to him about rewards,

> > taping his arm to a board so he can't bend it or flip it around,

> and engaging the help of

> > people big enough to hold him all come to mind.

> >

> > Try to go to a CHILDREN'S hospital and talk to them about who is

> good at this.

> >

> > Or talk to some paramedics/EMT's about how to arrange it, some

may

> come to your home

> > and do it for a fee. He may be more comfortable doing it at

home.

> >

> > Andy

> >

> > > Hi,

> > >

> > > Ds is now quite a sizeable kid (1.33m tall) & there's no way

I'm

> able

> > > to hold him still for blood withdrawal. The last time I'm

able

> to do it

> > > was when he was less than 3 years old.

> > >

> > > Using general anaesthesia is something we prefer not do resort

to.

> > >

> > > Even with pasting a couple wires on his ear/head for

> neurofeedback,

> > > he refused till we did it at home first to get him used to it.

> > >

> > > I can't possibly prick him with needles at home frequently

till he

> > > get used to it so if there's any method you can think of,

kindly

> > > share.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > G

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

In-home blood draws *could* work well, but they can also backfire quite

spectacularly if not done right. We had a woman come to do this, but I

don't think she had a lot of pediatric experience, couldn't find veins,

etc. It was a horrible, horrible experience for our son and for us,

made worse by the fact that it happened in his own home, which is

supposed to be a safe haven. I don't ever want to do that again.

Rene

> p.s. I like the idea of in-home blood draws. Wish I would have

> thought of that a few years back.

[Guest guest]

My son's doctor wrote us a prescription for Emla cream which numbs

that area where they will draw the blood. Put it on about 1/2 hour

before the draw and this has really helped us get through the blood

draws.

Dave

>

>

>

> <p>Hi,<br>

> <br>

> Ds is now quite a sizeable kid (1.33m tall) & there's no way I'm

able<br>

> to hold him still for blood withdrawal. The last time I'm able to

do it<br>

> was when he was less than 3 years old.<br>

> <br>

> Using general anaesthesia is something we prefer not do resort

to.<br>

> <br>

> Even with pasting a couple wires on his ear/head for

neurofeedback,<br>

> he refused till we did it at home first to get him used to it.<br>

> <br>

> I can't possibly prick him with needles at home frequently till

he<br>

> get used to it so if there's any method you can think of,

kindly<br>

> share.<br>

> <br>

> Thanks<br>

> G<br>

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com

> The most personalized portal on the Web!

>

[Guest guest]

My son has been getting blood drawn for 6 years. He insists on having EMLA

cream-it makes that much of a difference. I put it on 45 min. before draw

and be sure to cover it with plastic wrap taped to his arm. He also wants

them to spray his arm with that cold spray as well. He requests these two

things and that makes him feel better about it. He is now almost 13 and he

still wants me in the room with him. He, I, and the nurse drawing the blood

talk about something he likes such as a movie he just saw and I try not to

be too serious and keep things as light as possible. We do it at the

hospital and they have a TV playing kids programs in one area and he enjoys

watching that right up until the moment they call his name so he isn't

thinking about and dreading the draw.

Regards,

Beth