Re: Stumped: latest urine toxic metals test shows zero Hg

[Guest guest]

Some chelator cause excretion in urine, others in stool...I think ALA is through

stool, but check with others to see if that is correct.

S S

Hi guys,<BR>

<BR>

I just rec'd a copy of our latest DDI urine toxic metals test.  I <BR>

had been eager to see the results, since it was the first test since <BR>

adding oral ALA to our TD-DMSA regimen.<BR>

<BR>

ZERO mercury.  Not even a little blip on the page.  Our prior urine <BR>

test (just DMSA) showed mercury in to the yellow.  Nothing else was <BR>

pulled in any significant amounts, except we saw lead for the first <BR>

time (still very much in the green).<BR>

<BR>

We are seeing remarkable improvements in our child since starting <BR>

ALA.  Can't quite recall:  is ALA mainly excreted in the feces?<BR>

<BR>

On a nicer note, his creatinine is much, much closer to the norm (83 <BR>

now vs 32 mg/dL 6 mnths ago).<BR>

<BR>

So,  TD-DMSA alone seemed to show (on paper) the mercury coming out <BR>

in the urine but we didn't see the great behavioral improvements.  <BR>

TD-DMSA plus oral ALA shows spectacular behavior changes but looks <BR>

poor on paper.<BR>

<BR>

What to do?  Continue on and dump the urine test for some hair and <BR>

stool testing?<BR>

<BR>

I'm frustrated.  I feel like someone who opened a gift; thinking it <BR>

would be an engagement ring only to find a goofy charm bracelet.<BR>

<BR>

Pam<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

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<br><br>

<tt>

=======================================================<BR>

[Guest guest]

It is through urine, at least for copper. See

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/143992.html

Anne

>

> Hi guys,<BR>

> <BR>

> I just rec'd a copy of our latest DDI urine toxic metals test.  I

<BR>

> had been eager to see the results, since it was the first test

since <BR>

> adding oral ALA to our TD-DMSA regimen.<BR>

> <BR>

> ZERO mercury.  Not even a little blip on the page.  Our prior

urine <BR>

> test (just DMSA) showed mercury in to the yellow.  Nothing else

was <BR>

> pulled in any significant amounts, except we saw lead for the

first <BR>

> time (still very much in the green).<BR>

> <BR>

> We are seeing remarkable improvements in our child since starting

<BR>

> ALA.  Can't quite recall:  is ALA mainly excreted in the feces?<BR>

> <BR>

> On a nicer note, his creatinine is much, much closer to the norm

(83 <BR>

> now vs 32 mg/dL 6 mnths ago).<BR>

> <BR>

> So,  TD-DMSA alone seemed to show (on paper) the mercury coming

out <BR>

> in the urine but we didn't see the great behavioral improvements. 

<BR>

> TD-DMSA plus oral ALA shows spectacular behavior changes but looks

<BR>

> poor on paper.<BR>

> <BR>

> What to do?  Continue on and dump the urine test for some hair and

<BR>

> stool testing?<BR>

> <BR>

> I'm frustrated.  I feel like someone who opened a gift; thinking

it <BR>

> would be an engagement ring only to find a goofy charm

bracelet.<BR>

> <BR>

> Pam<BR>

> <BR>

> <BR>

> <BR>

> <BR>

> <BR>

>

>

> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->

>

> <br><br>

> <tt>

> =======================================================<BR>

>

[Guest guest]

I heard that the urine test shouldn't be relied upon too much as an

indicator of how successful the treatment is because of timing

issues. For example, it may not have pulled any mercury during that

particular sample, which doesn't mean that none was pulled out the

day prior, day after, or at times when you happen to just not pull a

urine sample. If you're seeing good results, that's very positive

confirmation!

>

> Hi guys,

>

> I just rec'd a copy of our latest DDI urine toxic metals test. I

> had been eager to see the results, since it was the first test

since

> adding oral ALA to our TD-DMSA regimen.

>

> ZERO mercury. Not even a little blip on the page. Our prior

urine

> test (just DMSA) showed mercury in to the yellow. Nothing else

was

> pulled in any significant amounts, except we saw lead for the

first

> time (still very much in the green).

>

> We are seeing remarkable improvements in our child since starting

> ALA. Can't quite recall: is ALA mainly excreted in the feces?

>

> On a nicer note, his creatinine is much, much closer to the norm

(83

> now vs 32 mg/dL 6 mnths ago).

>

> So, TD-DMSA alone seemed to show (on paper) the mercury coming

out

> in the urine but we didn't see the great behavioral improvements.

> TD-DMSA plus oral ALA shows spectacular behavior changes but looks

> poor on paper.

>

> What to do? Continue on and dump the urine test for some hair and

> stool testing?

>

> I'm frustrated. I feel like someone who opened a gift; thinking

it

> would be an engagement ring only to find a goofy charm bracelet.

>

> Pam

>

[Guest guest]

> So, TD-DMSA alone seemed to show (on paper) the mercury coming out

> in the urine but we didn't see the great behavioral improvements.

> TD-DMSA plus oral ALA shows spectacular behavior changes but looks

> poor on paper.

> What to do? Continue on and dump the urine test for some hair and

> stool testing?

You know what's working, so why sweat it? Urine and stool tests aren't

useful. Just focus on those spectacular improvements and smile to

yourself .

Nell

[Guest guest]

Pam,

I would follow progress not paper.

If your child is doing so much better, then mercury is moving out of

the brain. It may be excreted via stool. As long as it is getting

out. Usually mercury does go by stool, thus the gut issues. Someone

else may be able to help on how ALA helps mercury out, if by stool

or urine. Don't feel too discouraged. Some test are meaningless

anyway...how your child is doing is all the test you need.

>

> Hi guys,

>

> I just rec'd a copy of our latest DDI urine toxic metals test. I

> had been eager to see the results, since it was the first test

since

> adding oral ALA to our TD-DMSA regimen.

>

> ZERO mercury. Not even a little blip on the page. Our prior

urine

> test (just DMSA) showed mercury in to the yellow. Nothing else

was

> pulled in any significant amounts, except we saw lead for the

first

> time (still very much in the green).

>

> We are seeing remarkable improvements in our child since starting

> ALA. Can't quite recall: is ALA mainly excreted in the feces?

>

> On a nicer note, his creatinine is much, much closer to the norm

(83

> now vs 32 mg/dL 6 mnths ago).

>

> So, TD-DMSA alone seemed to show (on paper) the mercury coming

out

> in the urine but we didn't see the great behavioral improvements.

> TD-DMSA plus oral ALA shows spectacular behavior changes but looks

> poor on paper.

>

> What to do? Continue on and dump the urine test for some hair and

> stool testing?

>

> I'm frustrated. I feel like someone who opened a gift; thinking

it

> would be an engagement ring only to find a goofy charm bracelet.

>

> Pam

>

[Guest guest]

It is all just the timing you nailed that test. I bet his mercury

excretion was higher with the lower creatinine level. The higher the

creatinine goes, the lower the metal excretion will be. Next time you

get a urine test, take it when the color is nearly clear, the metel

excretion will be greater with the lower creatinine, especially after

seeing a spell of darker urine. Works all the time, that is if you

are into seeing it on paper, some are, some don't care.

>

> Hi guys,

>

> I just rec'd a copy of our latest DDI urine toxic metals test. I

> had been eager to see the results, since it was the first test

since

> adding oral ALA to our TD-DMSA regimen.

>

> ZERO mercury. Not even a little blip on the page. Our prior urine

> test (just DMSA) showed mercury in to the yellow. Nothing else was

> pulled in any significant amounts, except we saw lead for the first

> time (still very much in the green).

>

> We are seeing remarkable improvements in our child since starting

> ALA. Can't quite recall: is ALA mainly excreted in the feces?

>

> On a nicer note, his creatinine is much, much closer to the norm

(83

> now vs 32 mg/dL 6 mnths ago).

>

> So, TD-DMSA alone seemed to show (on paper) the mercury coming out

> in the urine but we didn't see the great behavioral improvements.

> TD-DMSA plus oral ALA shows spectacular behavior changes but looks

> poor on paper.

>

> What to do? Continue on and dump the urine test for some hair and

> stool testing?

>

> I'm frustrated. I feel like someone who opened a gift; thinking it

> would be an engagement ring only to find a goofy charm bracelet.

>

> Pam

>

[Guest guest]

So, is having lower creatinine BETTER under some circumstances? His

creatinine has always been nearly 2 SD below the norm; I was excited

to see that number approaching normal...

I am usually not one who relies on test results for confirmation. I

only do blood work every 6 months at best. For some reason, this

test frustrates me. I guess I was hoping to show it to my husband

to get him on board.

Everyone is correct: the bottom line is that the Autism is

literally melting away. I worry at times that I'll be stuck with

ADHD as a replacement Dx (was never a hyper kid before), but most

days I'll take it!! I often wonder if he is hyper because he is

frantically making up for lost time... all of these experiences he

missed for 2 years after regressing. This kid has a zest for life

that wears me out!

Pam

> >

> > Hi guys,

> >

> > I just rec'd a copy of our latest DDI urine toxic metals test.

I

> > had been eager to see the results, since it was the first test

> since

> > adding oral ALA to our TD-DMSA regimen.

> >

> > ZERO mercury. Not even a little blip on the page. Our prior

urine

> > test (just DMSA) showed mercury in to the yellow. Nothing else

was

> > pulled in any significant amounts, except we saw lead for the

first

> > time (still very much in the green).

> >

> > We are seeing remarkable improvements in our child since

starting

> > ALA. Can't quite recall: is ALA mainly excreted in the feces?

> >

> > On a nicer note, his creatinine is much, much closer to the norm

> (83

> > now vs 32 mg/dL 6 mnths ago).

> >

> > So, TD-DMSA alone seemed to show (on paper) the mercury coming

out

> > in the urine but we didn't see the great behavioral

improvements.

> > TD-DMSA plus oral ALA shows spectacular behavior changes but

looks

> > poor on paper.

> >

> > What to do? Continue on and dump the urine test for some hair

and

> > stool testing?

> >

> > I'm frustrated. I feel like someone who opened a gift; thinking

it

> > would be an engagement ring only to find a goofy charm bracelet.

> >

> > Pam

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Agreed!!!

I too remember hearing that ALA is stool, DMSA is urine though. All that

matters is that your son is getting better, that is a blessing like no

other!!!!!! Tests aren't always what they should be. We did a DMSA

challenge...before I knew better...and it showed nothing. Nothing was elevated

in the least little bit. I was crushed to say the least. Now I know better and

my son is improving all the time with chelation!!!

Jan <queenvavee@...> wrote:

Pam,

I would follow progress not paper.

If your child is doing so much better, then mercury is moving out of

the brain. It may be excreted via stool. As long as it is getting

out. Usually mercury does go by stool, thus the gut issues. Someone

else may be able to help on how ALA helps mercury out, if by stool

or urine. Don't feel too discouraged. Some test are meaningless

anyway...how your child is doing is all the test you need.

>

> Hi guys,

>

> I just rec'd a copy of our latest DDI urine toxic metals test. I

> had been eager to see the results, since it was the first test

since

> adding oral ALA to our TD-DMSA regimen.

>

> ZERO mercury. Not even a little blip on the page. Our prior

urine

> test (just DMSA) showed mercury in to the yellow. Nothing else

was

> pulled in any significant amounts, except we saw lead for the

first

> time (still very much in the green).

>

> We are seeing remarkable improvements in our child since starting

> ALA. Can't quite recall: is ALA mainly excreted in the feces?

>

> On a nicer note, his creatinine is much, much closer to the norm

(83

> now vs 32 mg/dL 6 mnths ago).

>

> So, TD-DMSA alone seemed to show (on paper) the mercury coming

out

> in the urine but we didn't see the great behavioral improvements.

> TD-DMSA plus oral ALA shows spectacular behavior changes but looks

> poor on paper.

>

> What to do? Continue on and dump the urine test for some hair and

> stool testing?

>

> I'm frustrated. I feel like someone who opened a gift; thinking

it

> would be an engagement ring only to find a goofy charm bracelet.

>

> Pam

>

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

No, not necessarily, you need a normal creatinine to make muscle

etc.Creatinine fluxes thruought the day and high creatinine goes with

darker urine, lower creatinine is with nearly water colored urine.

But in the game we are playing,(for lack of better word) and at times

needing to see it on paper, and if you are inclined to " need " to

prove to anyone, as usually it only takes one result of a high level

to get people to believe you(been there done that) the way to do it,

to nail a test with black lines is:

Watch behavior and urine color. Darker urine will usually give you

the off behaviors,hyper, cranky, moody, when they bounce out of that

funk, urine will go clear, that is the urine you want to send, the

one following a funky behavior going to clear water colored urine.

WORKS EVERY TIME. But it has to precede a dark urine spell.

Bottom line you are seeing improvements, moving up the chain of

issues that is all that matters. But we all like to " see " what we are

doing on paper at times.

> > >

> > > Hi guys,

> > >

> > > I just rec'd a copy of our latest DDI urine toxic metals test.

> I

> > > had been eager to see the results, since it was the first test

> > since

> > > adding oral ALA to our TD-DMSA regimen.

> > >

> > > ZERO mercury. Not even a little blip on the page. Our prior

> urine

> > > test (just DMSA) showed mercury in to the yellow. Nothing else

> was

> > > pulled in any significant amounts, except we saw lead for the

> first

> > > time (still very much in the green).

> > >

> > > We are seeing remarkable improvements in our child since

> starting

> > > ALA. Can't quite recall: is ALA mainly excreted in the feces?

> > >

> > > On a nicer note, his creatinine is much, much closer to the

norm

> > (83

> > > now vs 32 mg/dL 6 mnths ago).

> > >

> > > So, TD-DMSA alone seemed to show (on paper) the mercury coming

> out

> > > in the urine but we didn't see the great behavioral

> improvements.

> > > TD-DMSA plus oral ALA shows spectacular behavior changes but

> looks

> > > poor on paper.

> > >

> > > What to do? Continue on and dump the urine test for some hair

> and

> > > stool testing?

> > >

> > > I'm frustrated. I feel like someone who opened a gift;

thinking

> it

> > > would be an engagement ring only to find a goofy charm bracelet.

> > >

> > > Pam

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I guess I was hoping to show it to my husband

> to get him on board.

Totally understandable. How is your husband reacting to the improvements?

>

> Everyone is correct: the bottom line is that the Autism is

> literally melting away. I worry at times that I'll be stuck with

> ADHD as a replacement Dx (was never a hyper kid before), but most

> days I'll take it!!

This is what happened to n -- after he left Asperger's/PDD behind

for good he moved into ADHD. I have to admit in many ways I found it

harder to deal with, even though I knew it was great progress. The

rages were ugly but once I fgured out what to do I coud do it. But the

complete lack of focus and constant movement worked me to my last

nerve. Eventually the ADHD passed too, and now only comes back as a

sign of viral trouble.

Nell

[Guest guest]

That is interesting, the change in Dx. My son was Dx autistic and borderline

PDD when he was 2. He has come a very long way and a friend of mine (an OT who

has worked with many ASD kids) at church commented a few weeks ago that he

seemed more asperger's to her, not autistic. He is getting more and more

verbal. I hear him and my other son actually having conversations. Short

sentences and not always complete but a definite exchange of words in a

conversational pattern like asking and answering questions. Really cool since

18 months ago he was pretty much non-verbal.

Do ASD kids tend to move up the spectrum and then recover? Is his possibly

being asperger's a sign?? Do I have ADHD to look forward to as well? I can't

say that sounds like fun as I am ADD but if that means he is getting better, I

will take it as well!

Thanks!

lanellici <lanellici@...> wrote:

I guess I was hoping to show it to my husband

> to get him on board.

Totally understandable. How is your husband reacting to the improvements?

>

> Everyone is correct: the bottom line is that the Autism is

> literally melting away. I worry at times that I'll be stuck with

> ADHD as a replacement Dx (was never a hyper kid before), but most

> days I'll take it!!

This is what happened to n -- after he left Asperger's/PDD behind

for good he moved into ADHD. I have to admit in many ways I found it

harder to deal with, even though I knew it was great progress. The

rages were ugly but once I fgured out what to do I coud do it. But the

complete lack of focus and constant movement worked me to my last

nerve. Eventually the ADHD passed too, and now only comes back as a

sign of viral trouble.

Nell

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

I hear him and my other son actually having conversations. Short

sentences and not always complete but a definite exchange of words in

a conversational pattern like asking and answering questions. Really

cool since 18 months ago he was pretty much non-verbal.

That is *great!

>

> Do ASD kids tend to move up the spectrum and then recover? Is his

possibly being asperger's a sign?? Do I have ADHD to look forward to

as well?

Yes, I think it's a good sign. If you think of the dx's not as

discrete illnesses but rather descriptions of how poisoned a person

is, it makes sense that kids would move along the spectrum as they get

better.

Nell

[Guest guest]

Yup, they do. That's usually the pattern as they are recovering.

Barb

Re: [ ] Re: Stumped: latest urine toxic metals test

shows zero Hg

That is interesting, the change in Dx. My son was Dx autistic and

borderline PDD when he was 2. He has come a very long way and a friend of

mine (an OT who has worked with many ASD kids) at church commented a few

weeks ago that he seemed more asperger's to her, not autistic. He is

getting more and more verbal. I hear him and my other son actually having

conversations. Short sentences and not always complete but a definite

exchange of words in a conversational pattern like asking and answering

questions. Really cool since 18 months ago he was pretty much non-verbal.

Do ASD kids tend to move up the spectrum and then recover? Is his

possibly being asperger's a sign?? Do I have ADHD to look forward to as

well? I can't say that sounds like fun as I am ADD but if that means he is

getting better, I will take it as well!

Thanks!

lanellici <lanellici@...> wrote:

I guess I was hoping to show it to my husband

> to get him on board.

Totally understandable. How is your husband reacting to the improvements?

>

> Everyone is correct: the bottom line is that the Autism is

> literally melting away. I worry at times that I'll be stuck with

> ADHD as a replacement Dx (was never a hyper kid before), but most

> days I'll take it!!

This is what happened to n -- after he left Asperger's/PDD behind

for good he moved into ADHD. I have to admit in many ways I found it

harder to deal with, even though I knew it was great progress. The

rages were ugly but once I fgured out what to do I coud do it. But the

complete lack of focus and constant movement worked me to my last

nerve. Eventually the ADHD passed too, and now only comes back as a

sign of viral trouble.

Nell

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 16/05/2006 04:01:06 GMT Daylight Time,

queenvavee@... writes:

Someone

else may be able to help on how ALA helps mercury out, if by stool

or urine.

>>>we have always seen more in stool since adding ALA, I don;t test anymore,

its dso expensive and hit and miss

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

According to an on-line discussion by Amy Holmes, alpha lipoic acid

excretes mercury mainly via stools.

I *thought* that was what I remembered hearing.

Pam

>

>

> In a message dated 16/05/2006 04:01:06 GMT Daylight Time,

> queenvavee@... writes:

>

> Someone

> else may be able to help on how ALA helps mercury out, if by stool

> or urine.

>

>

> >>>we have always seen more in stool since adding ALA, I don;t

test anymore,

> its dso expensive and hit and miss

>

> Mandi x

>

>

>