Re: Desperate to do chelation

[Guest guest]

Ok. I read in the files section and wonder this. Could my son's

reaction to his first round of TD-DMSA have been neutropenia? Is

this why he got pneumonia right after? If so, what can I do about

this? Does this mean we must always stay away from DMSA?

I also read that the side effects that can occur with ALA may be

allergic in nature. I have a severely allergic kid. Is this

something to be concerned about? What about the DAN! docs who worry

that ALA could move mercury around? I think this is a legitamate

concern. Could I have an explaination for this please? How is it

that Andy feels it is safe?

Also, I think my kids are mercury toxic, but I also think that they

have some serious autoimmune issues going on. How does mercury play

a role in autoimmunity? Will detoxing the mercury help the

autoimmune issues go away?

I need some expert advice here, please! Very complicated kids.

Thanks,

>

> Hi. My kids are four and seven. We've been seing a DAN! doc

since

> April '05 but have been doing a lot of the protocol for several

> years. Last Nov. my kids did a round of TD-DMSA and my son got a

> lot worse after- speech got slurry, got pneumonia, viral tongue

> bumps all winter, much weaker. Anyway, I didn't procede with

either

> of my children at that point. I am not sure why he had this

> reaction. Perhaps yeast was out of control, minerals were still

too

> low, poor sulfation, viral issues??? Any ideas?

>

> Anyway, we feel stuck in a rut. Still have bad yeast and

clostridia

> issues. We are doing Flagyl and Nystatin with my son right now

and

> Flagyl and Diflucan with the four year old. Packed red blood cell

> analysis just showed they have very, very low selenium and our doc

> says we can't do any detoxing until we get that up so I have been

> giving them the water oz selenium and we will repeat the packed

red

> blood cell analysis in three months. It just seems that we just

> keep waiting and waiting to chelate and in the meantime my kids

are

> getting older!!!!

>

> When we do start chelating I'm really not sure what route to go.

> DMSA scares me a little now. I was thinking of the CaEDTA

> suppositories but they might not be that effective. Any thoughts

on

> what route to take?

>

> I also just got my amalgams removed and am anxious to get started

> but I have the same issues with yeast. I'm not sure I could

handle

> an oral chelator that would stir up yeast but I really want the

> metals out.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ok. I read in the files section and wonder this. Could my son's

reaction to his first round of TD-DMSA have been neutropenia? Is

this why he got pneumonia right after? If so, what can I do about

this? Does this mean we must always stay away from DMSA?

I also read that the side effects that can occur with ALA may be

allergic in nature. I have a severely allergic kid. Is this

something to be concerned about? What about the DAN! docs who worry

that ALA could move mercury around? I think this is a legitamate

concern. Could I have an explaination for this please? How is it

that Andy feels it is safe?

Also, I think my kids are mercury toxic, but I also think that they

have some serious autoimmune issues going on. How does mercury play

a role in autoimmunity? Will detoxing the mercury help the

autoimmune issues go away?

I need some expert advice here, please! Very complicated kids.

Thanks,

>

> Hi. My kids are four and seven. We've been seing a DAN! doc

since

> April '05 but have been doing a lot of the protocol for several

> years. Last Nov. my kids did a round of TD-DMSA and my son got a

> lot worse after- speech got slurry, got pneumonia, viral tongue

> bumps all winter, much weaker. Anyway, I didn't procede with

either

> of my children at that point. I am not sure why he had this

> reaction. Perhaps yeast was out of control, minerals were still

too

> low, poor sulfation, viral issues??? Any ideas?

>

> Anyway, we feel stuck in a rut. Still have bad yeast and

clostridia

> issues. We are doing Flagyl and Nystatin with my son right now

and

> Flagyl and Diflucan with the four year old. Packed red blood cell

> analysis just showed they have very, very low selenium and our doc

> says we can't do any detoxing until we get that up so I have been

> giving them the water oz selenium and we will repeat the packed

red

> blood cell analysis in three months. It just seems that we just

> keep waiting and waiting to chelate and in the meantime my kids

are

> getting older!!!!

>

> When we do start chelating I'm really not sure what route to go.

> DMSA scares me a little now. I was thinking of the CaEDTA

> suppositories but they might not be that effective. Any thoughts

on

> what route to take?

>

> I also just got my amalgams removed and am anxious to get started

> but I have the same issues with yeast. I'm not sure I could

handle

> an oral chelator that would stir up yeast but I really want the

> metals out.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ok. I read in the files section and wonder this. Could my son's

reaction to his first round of TD-DMSA have been neutropenia? Is

this why he got pneumonia right after? If so, what can I do about

this? Does this mean we must always stay away from DMSA?

I also read that the side effects that can occur with ALA may be

allergic in nature. I have a severely allergic kid. Is this

something to be concerned about? What about the DAN! docs who worry

that ALA could move mercury around? I think this is a legitamate

concern. Could I have an explaination for this please? How is it

that Andy feels it is safe?

Also, I think my kids are mercury toxic, but I also think that they

have some serious autoimmune issues going on. How does mercury play

a role in autoimmunity? Will detoxing the mercury help the

autoimmune issues go away?

I need some expert advice here, please! Very complicated kids.

Thanks,

>

> Hi. My kids are four and seven. We've been seing a DAN! doc

since

> April '05 but have been doing a lot of the protocol for several

> years. Last Nov. my kids did a round of TD-DMSA and my son got a

> lot worse after- speech got slurry, got pneumonia, viral tongue

> bumps all winter, much weaker. Anyway, I didn't procede with

either

> of my children at that point. I am not sure why he had this

> reaction. Perhaps yeast was out of control, minerals were still

too

> low, poor sulfation, viral issues??? Any ideas?

>

> Anyway, we feel stuck in a rut. Still have bad yeast and

clostridia

> issues. We are doing Flagyl and Nystatin with my son right now

and

> Flagyl and Diflucan with the four year old. Packed red blood cell

> analysis just showed they have very, very low selenium and our doc

> says we can't do any detoxing until we get that up so I have been

> giving them the water oz selenium and we will repeat the packed

red

> blood cell analysis in three months. It just seems that we just

> keep waiting and waiting to chelate and in the meantime my kids

are

> getting older!!!!

>

> When we do start chelating I'm really not sure what route to go.

> DMSA scares me a little now. I was thinking of the CaEDTA

> suppositories but they might not be that effective. Any thoughts

on

> what route to take?

>

> I also just got my amalgams removed and am anxious to get started

> but I have the same issues with yeast. I'm not sure I could

handle

> an oral chelator that would stir up yeast but I really want the

> metals out.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , my commnets are interspersed...

> Ok. I read in the files section and wonder this. Could my son's

> reaction to his first round of TD-DMSA have been neutropenia? Is

> this why he got pneumonia right after? If so, what can I do about

> this? Does this mean we must always stay away from DMSA?

, you are going to have to tell us exactly what your chelation

protocol was - how large the dose was, how often you gave it, how

much your son weighed at the time - before we can offer much

advice. A lot of people report adverse reactions to chelation on a

schedule that doses too much chelator in too-infrequent doses. Did

you use Andy Cutler's protocol, or a different one? What were your

supporting supplements like?

>

> I also read that the side effects that can occur with ALA may be

> allergic in nature. I have a severely allergic kid. Is this

> something to be concerned about? What about the DAN! docs who

worry

> that ALA could move mercury around?

ALA is a chelator, so of course it does move mercury around. It

also crosses the blood-brain barrier (unlike DMSA and DMPS), so it

must be used with care on a dosing schedule that keeps it at a

steady level to avoid dumping mercury back into the brain. However,

some of the concern in DAN! circles re: ALA depositing mercury in

the brain is apparently based on a misunderstanding based on

something Andy wrote several years ago. If there is a recent

mercury exposure (ie, dental amalgams just removed, or vaccinations

last week, or something like that), only DMSA should be used until

body stores of mercury go down enough to safely add in ALA - about

three months. This is rarely an issue for our kids, whose exposures

usually are not that recent. I added ALA in on the second round of

chelation with no problems. Generally if people are reporting

allergic reactions to ALA (which we all have, naturally occuring in

our boides) my first suspiscion is that they are using a risky

protocol. There could also be problems with reactions to the

fillers.

In the file section there is a document by Andy that lists different

supplements that can help boost neutrophils during chelation. You

might find it helpful.

There is lots of information out there on how mercury can induce

autoimmune issues. I believe that proper chelation can often

resolve many of them over time, but it's a long haul. The adult

chelation groups that use the Cutler protocol are filled with people

who have these kinds of issues. You might want to see what kind of

stories they have to tell.

best wishes

Rene

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

I am going to go out on a limb here and speculate that your sons reaction

had more to do with improper dosing than anything else.

How much did you give him and how often did you give it ?

Many of the new parents on this list have come from DAN! doctors who

prescribed challenge/kelmer doses or large infrequent doses and then the

kids have a bad reaction.

The best way I have seen to get these kids back on the right track is to use

the AC protocol for a few rounds, that usually helps a lot.

Be sure to have a good yeast protocol in place and good vitamin and mineral

supplementation (see files section).

If your son can swallow pills, then things are much easier. If not, there

are tricks to mix things with that help a lot.

I am not a big fan of TD-anything because it is expensive and you are never

sure how much really gets absorbed, I am even less of a fan of ca-edta iv's.

Best bet is to post specifics like age, weight, dosing protocol, supps, hair

test results, behavioral observations and you will get much better advice.

Welcome to the list.

Good Luck !

Neil

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of j_kalis

Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:50 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Desperate to do chelation

Ok. I read in the files section and wonder this. Could my son's

reaction to his first round of TD-DMSA have been neutropenia? Is

this why he got pneumonia right after? If so, what can I do about

this? Does this mean we must always stay away from DMSA?

I also read that the side effects that can occur with ALA may be

allergic in nature. I have a severely allergic kid. Is this

something to be concerned about? What about the DAN! docs who worry

that ALA could move mercury around? I think this is a legitamate

concern. Could I have an explaination for this please? How is it

that Andy feels it is safe?

Also, I think my kids are mercury toxic, but I also think that they

have some serious autoimmune issues going on. How does mercury play

a role in autoimmunity? Will detoxing the mercury help the

autoimmune issues go away?

I need some expert advice here, please! Very complicated kids.

Thanks,

>

> Hi. My kids are four and seven. We've been seing a DAN! doc

since

> April '05 but have been doing a lot of the protocol for several

> years. Last Nov. my kids did a round of TD-DMSA and my son got a

> lot worse after- speech got slurry, got pneumonia, viral tongue

> bumps all winter, much weaker. Anyway, I didn't procede with

either

> of my children at that point. I am not sure why he had this

> reaction. Perhaps yeast was out of control, minerals were still

too

> low, poor sulfation, viral issues??? Any ideas?

>

> Anyway, we feel stuck in a rut. Still have bad yeast and

clostridia

> issues. We are doing Flagyl and Nystatin with my son right now

and

> Flagyl and Diflucan with the four year old. Packed red blood cell

> analysis just showed they have very, very low selenium and our doc

> says we can't do any detoxing until we get that up so I have been

> giving them the water oz selenium and we will repeat the packed

red

> blood cell analysis in three months. It just seems that we just

> keep waiting and waiting to chelate and in the meantime my kids

are

> getting older!!!!

>

> When we do start chelating I'm really not sure what route to go.

> DMSA scares me a little now. I was thinking of the CaEDTA

> suppositories but they might not be that effective. Any thoughts

on

> what route to take?

>

> I also just got my amalgams removed and am anxious to get started

> but I have the same issues with yeast. I'm not sure I could

handle

> an oral chelator that would stir up yeast but I really want the

> metals out.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

No, doesn't mean it was neutropenia, this is very rare, there are lots of bugs

going around. Dmsa is safe and so is Ala, which is necessary to get the metals

out of the central nervous system.

Yes, a lot of the time removing the mercury will help the autoimmunity.

[ ] Re: Desperate to do chelation

Ok. I read in the files section and wonder this. Could my son's

reaction to his first round of TD-DMSA have been neutropenia? Is

this why he got pneumonia right after? If so, what can I do about

this? Does this mean we must always stay away from DMSA?

I also read that the side effects that can occur with ALA may be

allergic in nature. I have a severely allergic kid. Is this

something to be concerned about? What about the DAN! docs who worry

that ALA could move mercury around? I think this is a legitamate

concern. Could I have an explaination for this please? How is it

that Andy feels it is safe?

Also, I think my kids are mercury toxic, but I also think that they

have some serious autoimmune issues going on. How does mercury play

a role in autoimmunity? Will detoxing the mercury help the

autoimmune issues go away?

I need some expert advice here, please! Very complicated kids.

Thanks,

>

> Hi. My kids are four and seven. We've been seing a DAN! doc

since

> April '05 but have been doing a lot of the protocol for several

> years. Last Nov. my kids did a round of TD-DMSA and my son got a

> lot worse after- speech got slurry, got pneumonia, viral tongue

> bumps all winter, much weaker. Anyway, I didn't procede with

either

> of my children at that point. I am not sure why he had this

> reaction. Perhaps yeast was out of control, minerals were still

too

> low, poor sulfation, viral issues??? Any ideas?

>

> Anyway, we feel stuck in a rut. Still have bad yeast and

clostridia

> issues. We are doing Flagyl and Nystatin with my son right now

and

> Flagyl and Diflucan with the four year old. Packed red blood cell

> analysis just showed they have very, very low selenium and our doc

> says we can't do any detoxing until we get that up so I have been

> giving them the water oz selenium and we will repeat the packed

red

> blood cell analysis in three months. It just seems that we just

> keep waiting and waiting to chelate and in the meantime my kids

are

> getting older!!!!

>

> When we do start chelating I'm really not sure what route to go.

> DMSA scares me a little now. I was thinking of the CaEDTA

> suppositories but they might not be that effective. Any thoughts

on

> what route to take?

>

> I also just got my amalgams removed and am anxious to get started

> but I have the same issues with yeast. I'm not sure I could

handle

> an oral chelator that would stir up yeast but I really want the

> metals out.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Welcome to the list. It's ok to be motivated to do chelation, but being

desparate will cause you to go along with doctors who don't know what they're

doing or will prescribe dangerous or useless things. Educate yourself on the

subject and decide if you have a doctor who knows what he or she is doing.

Deterine whether the doctor will listen to you. Many here chelate without a

doctor for a variety of reasons: won't listen, doesn't understand chelation,

prescribes improper chelators or protocols, never gets around to chelation, etc.

Some have found helpful doctors but many have not. I presume your child has NO

mercury amalgam dental fillings.

What's the family diet like? What supplements are they on besides the water oz?

Probiotics? Have you done DDI hair elements tests? What did they show? Have

you identified and reduced/removed sources of exposure to toxic metals? Have

you considered NAET (www.naet.com) for allergy issues?

S S

<p>Hi. My kids are four and seven. We've been seing a DAN! doc

since <br>

April '05 but have been doing a lot of the protocol for several <br>

years. Last Nov. my kids did a round of TD-DMSA and my son got a <br>

lot worse after- speech got slurry, got pneumonia, viral tongue <br>

bumps all winter, much weaker. Anyway, I didn't procede with either <br>

of my children at that point. I am not sure why he had this <br>

reaction. Perhaps yeast was out of control, minerals were still too <br>

low, poor sulfation, viral issues??? Any ideas? <br>

<br>

Anyway, we feel stuck in a rut. Still have bad yeast and clostridia <br>

issues. We are doing Flagyl and Nystatin with my son right now and <br>

Flagyl and Diflucan with the four year old. Packed red blood cell <br>

analysis just showed they have very, very low selenium and our doc <br>

says we can't do any detoxing until we get that up so I have been <br>

giving them the water oz selenium and we will repeat the packed red <br>

blood cell analysis in three months. It just seems that we just <br>

keep waiting and waiting to chelate and in the meantime my kids are <br>

getting older!!!!<br>

<br>

When we do start chelating I'm really not sure what route to go. <br>

DMSA scares me a little now. I was thinking of the CaEDTA <br>

suppositories but they might not be that effective. Any thoughts on <br>

what route to take?<br>

<br>

I also just got my amalgams removed and am anxious to get started <br>

but I have the same issues with yeast. I'm not sure I could handle <br>

an oral chelator that would stir up yeast but I really want the <br>

metals out.<br>

<br>

Thanks,<br>

<br>

<br>

_______________________________________________

Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com

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[Guest guest]

The way to check for neutropenia is to have a blood test right after. Also, you

must look at dosing issues. DMSA needs to be dosed every four hours to keep

blood levels constant. Yes, there are people getting by with every eight but

that's risking a lot, IMHO. Also check dose levels. Most of us who've done low

levels have been fine.

I've never heard of any child being allergic to ALA. However, it can create a

great environment for yeast, so the yeast babies flare up.

Yes, mercury causes autoimmunity. Many of our kids have these problems as well.

Have you looked into NCD at all?

Barb

[ ] Re: Desperate to do chelation

Ok. I read in the files section and wonder this. Could my son's

reaction to his first round of TD-DMSA have been neutropenia? Is

this why he got pneumonia right after? If so, what can I do about

this? Does this mean we must always stay away from DMSA?

I also read that the side effects that can occur with ALA may be

allergic in nature. I have a severely allergic kid. Is this

something to be concerned about? What about the DAN! docs who worry

that ALA could move mercury around? I think this is a legitamate

concern. Could I have an explaination for this please? How is it

that Andy feels it is safe?

Also, I think my kids are mercury toxic, but I also think that they

have some serious autoimmune issues going on. How does mercury play

a role in autoimmunity? Will detoxing the mercury help the

autoimmune issues go away?

I need some expert advice here, please! Very complicated kids.

Thanks,

>

> Hi. My kids are four and seven. We've been seing a DAN! doc

since

> April '05 but have been doing a lot of the protocol for several

> years. Last Nov. my kids did a round of TD-DMSA and my son got a

> lot worse after- speech got slurry, got pneumonia, viral tongue

> bumps all winter, much weaker. Anyway, I didn't procede with

either

> of my children at that point. I am not sure why he had this

> reaction. Perhaps yeast was out of control, minerals were still

too

> low, poor sulfation, viral issues??? Any ideas?

>

> Anyway, we feel stuck in a rut. Still have bad yeast and

clostridia

> issues. We are doing Flagyl and Nystatin with my son right now

and

> Flagyl and Diflucan with the four year old. Packed red blood cell

> analysis just showed they have very, very low selenium and our doc

> says we can't do any detoxing until we get that up so I have been

> giving them the water oz selenium and we will repeat the packed

red

> blood cell analysis in three months. It just seems that we just

> keep waiting and waiting to chelate and in the meantime my kids

are

> getting older!!!!

>

> When we do start chelating I'm really not sure what route to go.

> DMSA scares me a little now. I was thinking of the CaEDTA

> suppositories but they might not be that effective. Any thoughts

on

> what route to take?

>

> I also just got my amalgams removed and am anxious to get started

> but I have the same issues with yeast. I'm not sure I could

handle

> an oral chelator that would stir up yeast but I really want the

> metals out.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

<<DMSA needs to be dosed every four hours to keep blood levels

constant. Yes, there are people getting by with every eight but that's

risking a lot>>

I go 3-4 hours generally on DMSA/ALA but don't notice any

redistribution issues if I push that to 4 hours. I have even gone to 5

one dose every 2 week (where I don't hear the alarm). I try to stick to

between 3-4 though most of the time.

If one is not getting symptoms of redistribution and are using lots of

anti-oxidants, it seems to me like it might be okay to push the dosing

to every 4 hours or even once in a while 5. I shoot for 3-4 and make

it about 90% of the time. Those times I haven't, haven't seemed to hurt

me however as far as adverse symptoms. I have a very SLOW metabolism

however so perhaps this is why I can stretch it a bit? Thoughts -

anyone? Rosegvr/

[Guest guest]

Past success with less frequent dosing is not an assurance of avoidance of

future problems. I have read posts from parents who did more infrequent dosing

for a while and then all of a sudden, their child regressed, I wouldn't risk it.

[ ] Re: Desperate to do chelation

<<DMSA needs to be dosed every four hours to keep blood levels

constant. Yes, there are people getting by with every eight but that's

risking a lot>>

I go 3-4 hours generally on DMSA/ALA but don't notice any

redistribution issues if I push that to 4 hours. I have even gone to 5

one dose every 2 week (where I don't hear the alarm). I try to stick to

between 3-4 though most of the time.

If one is not getting symptoms of redistribution and are using lots of

anti-oxidants, it seems to me like it might be okay to push the dosing

to every 4 hours or even once in a while 5. I shoot for 3-4 and make

it about 90% of the time. Those times I haven't, haven't seemed to hurt

me however as far as adverse symptoms. I have a very SLOW metabolism

however so perhaps this is why I can stretch it a bit? Thoughts -

anyone? Rosegvr/

[Guest guest]

We did three during the day and four at night.

Barb

[ ] Re: Desperate to do chelation

<<DMSA needs to be dosed every four hours to keep blood levels

constant. Yes, there are people getting by with every eight but that's

risking a lot>>

I go 3-4 hours generally on DMSA/ALA but don't notice any

redistribution issues if I push that to 4 hours. I have even gone to 5

one dose every 2 week (where I don't hear the alarm). I try to stick to

between 3-4 though most of the time.

If one is not getting symptoms of redistribution and are using lots of

anti-oxidants, it seems to me like it might be okay to push the dosing

to every 4 hours or even once in a while 5. I shoot for 3-4 and make

it about 90% of the time. Those times I haven't, haven't seemed to hurt

me however as far as adverse symptoms. I have a very SLOW metabolism

however so perhaps this is why I can stretch it a bit? Thoughts -

anyone? Rosegvr/

[Guest guest]

DMSA & ALA are safe... when dosed properly (low, frequent dosing) and the person

has no mercury amalgam dental fillings. ALA is contraindicated when the

person's copper level is high or if there's been recent new exposure (vaccines

or amalgam removed within the last 3 months).

S S

<p>,<br>

<br>

No, doesn't mean it was neutropenia, this is very rare, there are lots of bugs

going around. Dmsa is safe and so is Ala, which is necessary to get the metals

out of the central nervous system. <br>

<br>

Yes, a lot of the time removing the mercury will help the autoimmunity.<br>

<br>

<br>

_______________________________________________

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