Re: Disruptive Behavior in Class

[Guest guest]

Sally,

http://www.researchautism.org/

Has a good education guide for teachers to use.

Most of what I've read says it should be a positive reinforcement system not

negative. I know my son doesn't understand detention or suspension. His

behavior plan is fairly positive unless the behavior is several times during

a specific time frame then he starts losing priviledges. He now has to earn

TV time too which has helped. You would think school would be better

equipped to deal with doing behavior plans, Drives me nuts that they always

turn to negative instead of trying to be more motivating.

Suzanne

-- ( ) Disruptive Behavior in Class

My 14 yr. old son in a Freshman this year. I have had my IEP meeting

and Functional Behavior Analysis. The school set up a behavior plan

for him due to his speaking out and disruptive behavior during class.

It was a very negative plan. (Detention for these behaviors). I now

have a meeting Nov. 7 with all his teachers to discuss this. His

emotional support teacher called me yesterday and said " you have to

come up with a behavior plan for him " ! (Yeah, right!)

Anyhow, anyone have ideas or thoughts about some positive behavior

plans for a very intelligent, disruptive, 14 year old boy? I am not

going to come up with the plan, but I want to be prepared for this

meeting.

Here's another laugh - When he had his psych eval. a few months ago

the diagnosis came back with Asperger's but showing signs of

remission!!

Sally

[Guest guest]

I recently attended a conference by a behaviorist, Schetter, who

has a module out entitled " ROPES. " Anyway, she specifically mentioned this

behavior on a student she was called in to assist. Seems the student kept

yelling out the answers for the questions without raising his hand etc. The

behaviorist, with the help of the student, figured out that the student felt as

if

waited to be called upon he would either forget his answer or he felt as if

the other students " stole his answer. " Anyhow the way she figured out to

assist this student was to have his use a dry erase board and write down the

answer to the question and then raise up the board. This allowed him to give

the answer and receive the acknowledgement from the teacher that he was craving

and he did not disrupt the class. This trick caught on so much that the

whole class later started using this method and then the WHOLE school started

using this method of writing down the answer on the dry erase boards and

raising up their answers.

Connie Ajay

[Guest guest]

What did they come up with as far as the purpose of his behaviors?

That is where you need to start. What are his " disruptive " behaviors?

Do they happen all day, or just in certain classes?

I will tell you that if they want YOU to come up with a plan, I would

give

it a shot, with this list's help! Or you might just wind up with

lots of detentions.

He will probably need some cues throughout the day. Yes, it's time

consuming

and different for teachers. But if they want him to improve (and

isn't that

everyone's goal?) they have to take a different tactic than the one that

doesn't seem to be working.

I am prepping for IEP meeting #3 this year for my fifth grader. It's

going

much better this year compared to last year, but I want it on paper.

He calls out because he knows the answer and wants to be part of the

discussion. Once we had him keep track of his blurts, he recognizes it

and (according to him) has stopped unless he raises his hand first.

He yells because he is overloaded. He did it yesterday for the first

time

in a couple of weeks. We are trying to prompt him nicer phrases than

" leave me alone. " It's a learning process. When he makes an

attempt he

gets praise.

The key is to identify precursors and purpose of the behavior, To me,

yelling " leave me alone " is expressing a need....he needs a better way

to express that need to take a break.

In most cases, it's two-fold. An FBA is also supposed to identify

environmental

changes that are needed to help the child succeed. So you aren't

throwing him

into the same situation over and over and expecting a different

outcome.

And, teaching the child to fulfill the " function " of the behavior in

a less

disruptive, more effective manner.

Jackie

On Oct 27, 2006, at 10:19 AM, andysally82 wrote:

> My 14 yr. old son in a Freshman this year. I have had my IEP meeting

> and Functional Behavior Analysis. The school set up a behavior plan

> for him due to his speaking out and disruptive behavior during class.

> It was a very negative plan. (Detention for these behaviors).

[Guest guest]

The key to a successful behavior plan is for it to be positive and

implemented across all settings. http://cecp.air.org/fba/default.asp

has some great information. http://www.pbis.org/tertiaryPrevention.htm

has some examples of individual (tertiary) plans.

Tonya

( ) Disruptive Behavior in Class

My 14 yr. old son in a Freshman this year. I have had my IEP meeting

and Functional Behavior Analysis. The school set up a behavior plan

for him due to his speaking out and disruptive behavior during class.

It was a very negative plan. (Detention for these behaviors). I now

have a meeting Nov. 7 with all his teachers to discuss this. His

emotional support teacher called me yesterday and said " you have to

come up with a behavior plan for him " ! (Yeah, right!)

Anyhow, anyone have ideas or thoughts about some positive behavior

plans for a very intelligent, disruptive, 14 year old boy? I am not

going to come up with the plan, but I want to be prepared for this

meeting.

Here's another laugh - When he had his psych eval. a few months ago

the diagnosis came back with Asperger's but showing signs of

remission!!

Sally

[Guest guest]

His disruption seems to be talking out and getting out of his seat

to sharpen pencils, dancing in his seat, making off the wall

comments throughout the class or attempting to make jokes.

They said in the report that there is no pattern of antecendents to

talking out. At times it appears to be to get a reaction from other

students or when he was redirected or corrected. Perceived

functions of the behavior is speculation that he talks out to get a

reaction and persists because he does not fear consequences. They

suggested not seating him close to others, have him write slash

marks everytime he talks out . If he goes over the targeted number,

he be given additional homework or detention, or another penalty.

Incentives were, reduction in homework. They also feel his talking

out is a control issue. He needs to be in control.

I have to say, that we had different people observe him but the

school psychologist is the one who came up with the behavior plan.

We do not see eye to eye on things and she does not believe he is

Asperger's and that he can control his behaviors if he chooses to.

I had asked that the austistic support teacher be involved. She was

to the extent that she observed him one day, but she was not part of

the meeting. He receives no services from her, he only receives

emotional support and gifted support.

When I asked that the FBA be performed independently, they used the

autistic support teacher because she does not know him. Everyone

else has been involved with him for 3 years.

Did this answer your question?

Sally

>

> > My 14 yr. old son in a Freshman this year. I have had my IEP

meeting

> > and Functional Behavior Analysis. The school set up a behavior

plan

> > for him due to his speaking out and disruptive behavior during

class.

> > It was a very negative plan. (Detention for these behaviors).

>

[Guest guest]

The dry erase board thing sounds like an awesome idea! I'll bet the

teacher can expand it further by giving " points " for those who

participate in this - as a way to encourage more active participation

in general. I think something like this can be adapted for most

age/grade levels as well. Besides, it may even lead to a quieter

class room instead of several students trying to " outshout " each

other to call out the answers!

>

> I recently attended a conference by a behaviorist,

Schetter, who

> has a module out entitled " ROPES. " Anyway, she specifically

mentioned this

> behavior on a student she was called in to assist. Seems the

student kept

> yelling out the answers for the questions without raising his hand

etc. The

> behaviorist, with the help of the student, figured out that the

student felt as if

> waited to be called upon he would either forget his answer or he

felt as if

> the other students " stole his answer. " Anyhow the way she figured

out to

> assist this student was to have his use a dry erase board and

write down the

> answer to the question and then raise up the board. This allowed

him to give

> the answer and receive the acknowledgement from the teacher that

he was craving

> and he did not disrupt the class. This trick caught on so much

that the

> whole class later started using this method and then the WHOLE

school started

> using this method of writing down the answer on the dry erase

boards and

> raising up their answers.

>

> Connie Ajay

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is a GREAT answer to the problem. We need to suggest things

like this

to the school, and see it work...then they will believe, too.

Jackie

On Oct 27, 2006, at 3:39 PM, Belt3@... wrote:

> Anyhow the way she figured out to

> assist this student was to have his use a dry erase board and

> write down the

> answer to the question and then raise up the board. This allowed

> him to give

> the answer and receive the acknowledgement from the teacher that

> he was craving

> and he did not disrupt the class.

[Guest guest]

On Oct 27, 2006, at 3:30 PM, andysally82 wrote:

> His disruption seems to be talking out and getting out of his seat

> to sharpen pencils, dancing in his seat, making off the wall

> comments throughout the class or attempting to make jokes.

Kinda sounds like my 7th grader a bit.

>

> They said in the report that there is no pattern of antecendents to

> talking out.

Do you think there might be, still?

> Perceived

> functions of the behavior is speculation that he talks out to get a

> reaction and persists because he does not fear consequences.

They need to give him a reaction to more positive behaviors as part

of it.

> They

> suggested not seating him close to others, have him write slash

> marks everytime he talks out .

How about making slash marks every time he *doesn't* talk out?

Marking his misbehaviors only highlights them, and probably encourages

him to lie.

>

> I have to say, that we had different people observe him but the

> school psychologist is the one who came up with the behavior plan.

> We do not see eye to eye on things and she does not believe he is

> Asperger's and that he can control his behaviors if he chooses to.

Okay, I see a problem here. Have you got a report that says he's

AS? So who is school psych to disagree. Did he go to psych school

or teacher-type school?

Your son probably can " control " them to some extent. But only with

a great deal of structure, probably some environmental changes, lots of

positive reinforcements, and A LOT of practice. Punishment is not

going

to help. If they think he doesn't care about consequences, then why

do they think he will respond to them. Even though reduced homework is

a neat idea, he will need immediate positive reinforcement when he is

doing what they are

trying to teach him to do.

>

Have you seen him in class, recently, or ever? Is this a new thing?

The last FBA we did, we did it at a case conference with me being

involved, too.

I got to ask a lot of questions--when he blurts, it is answers or is

own topic?

Is it a few words, or a diatribe? Then I told them about other

environments like

Scouts, church, and all the tours we took on our vacation. If

others are blurting,

he will, too. If it's pretty clear that he and everyone else is

supposed to talk, he'll do

pretty well. Last year, from the times I was in class, he was only

addressed to quiet down

when the teacher was talking, not when students were also answering

questions.

(Could have been because I was there.)

>

> Did this answer your question?

Yep! I am just trying to help you.

Jackie

[Guest guest]

Sorry.. But that sounds like the kind of kid I would LOVE! LOL he's got a

sense of humour and class clown LOL

To me it sounds like my son too.. And honestly aspergers.. Or HF autism.. Is

what frustrating about it.. Is some people think its willful.. Its not.

-- Re: ( ) Disruptive Behavior in Class

His disruption seems to be talking out and getting out of his seat

to sharpen pencils, dancing in his seat, making off the wall

comments throughout the class or attempting to make jokes.

They said in the report that there is no pattern of antecendents to

talking out. At times it appears to be to get a reaction from other

students or when he was redirected or corrected. Perceived

functions of the behavior is speculation that he talks out to get a

reaction and persists because he does not fear consequences. They

suggested not seating him close to others, have him write slash

marks everytime he talks out . If he goes over the targeted number,

he be given additional homework or detention, or another penalty.

Incentives were, reduction in homework. They also feel his talking

out is a control issue. He needs to be in control.

I have to say, that we had different people observe him but the

school psychologist is the one who came up with the behavior plan.

We do not see eye to eye on things and she does not believe he is

Asperger's and that he can control his behaviors if he chooses to.

I had asked that the austistic support teacher be involved. She was

to the extent that she observed him one day, but she was not part of

the meeting. He receives no services from her, he only receives

emotional support and gifted support.

When I asked that the FBA be performed independently, they used the

autistic support teacher because she does not know him. Everyone

else has been involved with him for 3 years.

Did this answer your question?

Sally

>

> > My 14 yr. old son in a Freshman this year. I have had my IEP

meeting

> > and Functional Behavior Analysis. The school set up a behavior

plan

> > for him due to his speaking out and disruptive behavior during

class.

> > It was a very negative plan. (Detention for these behaviors).

>

[Guest guest]

Our son was doing the same thing. They observed the same things --

he was blurting out to get attention.

The behavior plan we came up with was " semi-positive. " That is, if

the teacher observed him blurting out or interrupting (or one of the

other behaviors they didn't want him to do) then she gave him a

strike. (They thought it would be too hard to notice when he wasn't

interrupting -- which would be a true positive behavior plan). He

had about 20 strikes a day. If he did not get all of the strikes, he

earned a reward at home. These rewards were extra computer time,

extra tv time, a trip to Mc's, etc. Small rewards that were

meaningful to him.

He wasn't punished for going over the number of strikes -- just told

to try harder the next time and he didn't get a reward. We put all

of this into a behavior contract and my son came up with the rewards

himself. The teachers, he and I all signed the contract. I think

this was very important becuase he was well aware of the goals

(rules!) and and really wanted those rewards. It was a bit of work

for the teacher and for us, but it was well worth it. We gradually

tapered down the number of " strikes " . By the end of the semester, he

was only receiving one or two a day. I think this has become a

habit, now, and he doesn't blurt as much.

This same approach would probably work with your son -- but instead

of a punishment for going over the number of slashes, he gets a

reward for staying under the target number. Be sure he chooses the

rewards and that they are meaningful to him.

Good luck!

N in Illinois

> >

> > > My 14 yr. old son in a Freshman this year. I have had my IEP

> meeting

> > > and Functional Behavior Analysis. The school set up a behavior

> plan

> > > for him due to his speaking out and disruptive behavior during

> class.

> > > It was a very negative plan. (Detention for these behaviors).

> >

>

[Guest guest]

What is " signs of remission? " Sounds like he contracted cancer or something.

<g>

Go to www.wrightslaw.com and do a search for " functional behavior assessment "

and also " positive behavior supports " to read more about the subject.

The school is responsible to bring in someone who knows what they are doing to

do the FBA and also to write a positive behavior plan based on the child's

needs. It is not your job to earn a degree in behavior management over night.

There are a variety of ideas for managing disruptive behavior in the classroom

but it would depend upon your son and why he is doing it, what he needs.

Roxanna

( ) Disruptive Behavior in Class

My 14 yr. old son in a Freshman this year. I have had my IEP meeting

and Functional Behavior Analysis. The school set up a behavior plan

for him due to his speaking out and disruptive behavior during class.

It was a very negative plan. (Detention for these behaviors). I now

have a meeting Nov. 7 with all his teachers to discuss this. His

emotional support teacher called me yesterday and said " you have to

come up with a behavior plan for him " ! (Yeah, right!)

Anyhow, anyone have ideas or thoughts about some positive behavior

plans for a very intelligent, disruptive, 14 year old boy? I am not

going to come up with the plan, but I want to be prepared for this

meeting.

Here's another laugh - When he had his psych eval. a few months ago

the diagnosis came back with Asperger's but showing signs of

remission!!

Sally

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[Guest guest]

I felt the same way.... Did he have some magic treatment that put

him in remission????? He was just responsive and cooperative the

day of the evaluation.

Thanks for the info about s Law. I will check it out.

Sally

>

> What is " signs of remission? " Sounds like he contracted cancer or

something. <g>

>

> Go to www.wrightslaw.com and do a search for " functional behavior

assessment " and also " positive behavior supports " to read more about

the subject.

>

> The school is responsible to bring in someone who knows what they

are doing to do the FBA and also to write a positive behavior plan

based on the child's needs. It is not your job to earn a degree in

behavior management over night.

>

> There are a variety of ideas for managing disruptive behavior in

the classroom but it would depend upon your son and why he is doing

it, what he needs.

>

> Roxanna

> ( ) Disruptive Behavior in Class

>

>

> My 14 yr. old son in a Freshman this year. I have had my IEP

meeting

> and Functional Behavior Analysis. The school set up a behavior

plan

> for him due to his speaking out and disruptive behavior during

class.

> It was a very negative plan. (Detention for these behaviors). I

now

> have a meeting Nov. 7 with all his teachers to discuss this. His

> emotional support teacher called me yesterday and said " you have

to

> come up with a behavior plan for him " ! (Yeah, right!)

>

> Anyhow, anyone have ideas or thoughts about some positive

behavior

> plans for a very intelligent, disruptive, 14 year old boy? I am

not

> going to come up with the plan, but I want to be prepared for

this

> meeting.

>

> Here's another laugh - When he had his psych eval. a few months

ago

> the diagnosis came back with Asperger's but showing signs of

> remission!!

>

> Sally

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.17/505 - Release Date:

10/27/2006

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The

school psychologist just doesn't agree with it. I am going to

address this at the meeting also. Aspergers is not even a part of

his IEP information.

Unless the school psychologist has a license to practice who cares what he

thinks? A school psychologist, unless they have a license, are nothing but

credentialed teachers who receive extra certification in school. A licensed

psychologist, as the one who did your child's diagnosis, can diagnose thru the

DSM-IV and therefore can certify them with a diagnosis. Ask the psychologist

if he is able to diagnose thru the DSM-IV if the answer is no then he cannot

overide a diagnosis thru a licensed psychologist. If he is then he is

mandated thru his license to " do no harm. " If he fails to accept the

diagnosis,

even if he disagrees, his ethics mandate to first " do no harm. " If he denies

your child services only because he disagrees with a diagnosis is that

creating more harm for your child? This is a violation of his ethical license

which can be reported.

Connie Ajay

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your help...I am taking all the suggetions into

consideration and hopefully will be well armed next week.

His diagnosis came from a psychologist outside the school. The

school psychologist just doesn't agree with it. I am going to

address this at the meeting also. Aspergers is not even a part of

his IEP information.

I am always open to any/all suggestions.

Sally

>

> > His disruption seems to be talking out and getting out of his

seat

> > to sharpen pencils, dancing in his seat, making off the wall

> > comments throughout the class or attempting to make jokes.

>

> Kinda sounds like my 7th grader a bit.

>

>

> >

> > They said in the report that there is no pattern of antecendents

to

> > talking out.

>

> Do you think there might be, still?

>

> > Perceived

> > functions of the behavior is speculation that he talks out to

get a

> > reaction and persists because he does not fear consequences.

>

> They need to give him a reaction to more positive behaviors as

part

> of it.

>

>

>

>

> > They

> > suggested not seating him close to others, have him write slash

> > marks everytime he talks out .

>

> How about making slash marks every time he *doesn't* talk out?

> Marking his misbehaviors only highlights them, and probably

encourages

> him to lie.

>

>

> >

> > I have to say, that we had different people observe him but the

> > school psychologist is the one who came up with the behavior

plan.

> > We do not see eye to eye on things and she does not believe he is

> > Asperger's and that he can control his behaviors if he chooses

to.

>

> Okay, I see a problem here. Have you got a report that says he's

> AS? So who is school psych to disagree. Did he go to psych

school

> or teacher-type school?

>

> Your son probably can " control " them to some extent. But only with

> a great deal of structure, probably some environmental changes,

lots of

> positive reinforcements, and A LOT of practice. Punishment is

not

> going

> to help. If they think he doesn't care about consequences, then

why

> do they think he will respond to them. Even though reduced

homework is

> a neat idea, he will need immediate positive reinforcement when he

is

> doing what they are

> trying to teach him to do.

> >

>

> Have you seen him in class, recently, or ever? Is this a new

thing?

>

>

> The last FBA we did, we did it at a case conference with me being

> involved, too.

> I got to ask a lot of questions--when he blurts, it is answers or

is

> own topic?

> Is it a few words, or a diatribe? Then I told them about other

> environments like

> Scouts, church, and all the tours we took on our vacation. If

> others are blurting,

> he will, too. If it's pretty clear that he and everyone else is

> supposed to talk, he'll do

> pretty well. Last year, from the times I was in class, he was

only

> addressed to quiet down

> when the teacher was talking, not when students were also

answering

> questions.

> (Could have been because I was there.)

>

>

> >

> > Did this answer your question?

>

> Yep! I am just trying to help you.

>

> Jackie

>

[Guest guest]

After me and my now ex husband got our son diagnosed with autism from fraser

center(in minn.) we brought it to the school when he was 3 years old.for him

to start preschool.and we had an extremely hard time to get the teacher and

the school psychologist to FINALLY agree to do the testing(which took us

along long time.we had to get pacer involved to help us,they sent one of the

head people out to help us).even after the school psyc. Did the testing my

sons preschool teacher STILL didn't believe he had autism.me and my ex got

so upset.pacer helped us out ALOT! And now I am having some problems with

the school my son's in now,hes in 3rd grade now(hes 8 years old).I think his

teacher his over working him and expects way to much out of him.I think she

expects him to beable to do what kids without a disability do.my son is hfa

and is in a mainstream class.I want him to be as " normal " as possible so he

don't get teased and so he knows how to do things so when he gets older he

knows how and what to do....

-- Re: ( ) Disruptive Behavior in Class

The

school psychologist just doesn't agree with it. I am going to

address this at the meeting also. Aspergers is not even a part of

his IEP information.

Unless the school psychologist has a license to practice who cares what he

thinks? A school psychologist, unless they have a license, are nothing but

credentialed teachers who receive extra certification in school. A licensed

psychologist, as the one who did your child's diagnosis, can diagnose thru

the

DSM-IV and therefore can certify them with a diagnosis. Ask the psychologist

if he is able to diagnose thru the DSM-IV if the answer is no then he cannot

overide a diagnosis thru a licensed psychologist. If he is then he is

mandated thru his license to " do no harm. " If he fails to accept the

diagnosis,

even if he disagrees, his ethics mandate to first " do no harm. " If he denies

your child services only because he disagrees with a diagnosis is that

creating more harm for your child? This is a violation of his ethical

license

which can be reported.

Connie Ajay