Re: Our Kids

[Guest guest]

This is the part I hate most. The medication. My daughter was put on Prozac

and Trazadone when she was 4. It worked for about 6 months, Risperdal was added

and 4 months later she was

switched to Zoloft. She has been on Zoloft for a little over a year and has

recently become very aggressive, angry, definitely not the little girl she was.

Now she is starting Luvox and

Buspar and I and I can tell a difference for now....

what is next? I must say though that after each trial of medication, once the

honeymoon period is over she becomes agressive and angry.

Obviously they all have different effects on each kid. This just is really

tiring in my opinion.

j.monnens@... wrote:

> From: j.monnens@...

>

> In response to Allie regarding Luvox. My 10 yo son was put on Luvox for

> his OCD and responded pretty well initially. However, after a couple

> months he became very agressive and oppositional -- very atypical behavior

> for him. He was switched to Prozac and seems to do well on that. However,

> as with anything else, your mileage may vary.

>

> Sheree wrote:

> Do you parents out there ever feel that

> it seems as if whenever your child seems to be doing well, thats when all

> of

> sudden their ocd is out of control? I can write on this list one day that

> my

> child is doing well and then the next week, it is the exact opposite.

>

> I feel this way ALL the time. As soon as I say Aiden is doing better,

> another crisis erupts. I have become cautious about saying much of

> anything. And it does seem that as soon as once obsession or compulsion

> lessens, another rears up to take its place. I find it so reassuring to

> know there are so many others out there, even though we are separated

> geographically.

>

> Jule in Cleveland, OH

>

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[Guest guest]

Hello everyone,

What a week. I feel so sad after weeks like this when I feel as if

half the children in the world have huge problems and none of them get the

help they need. Reading J.'s reports on Tommy make me feel both sad and

happy that at least they are getting some help - but it always seems to be

two steps backward, one step forward...

So, on the home front - Annie has started picking at her scalp

until it bleeds, and then picking at the scabs and then... you get the

picture. She insists it's going away, but yesterday she came down in the a.m.

with her head a bloody mess. Sigh. And today she and her best friend had a

huge fight, which i guess has been simmering all week (hence the sudden

upswing in OCD probably). So she is a mess, and very very sad.

Then I found out today that my neighbor's 16 yr. old had a " nervous

breakdown " last month and has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and

perhaps schizophrenia. She can't go back to high school because of her

anxiety and is on homebound instruction. Her parents are just starting on

this whole journey (bright spot : I was able to direct them to a great child

psych. at least). She has such bad tremors from the meds that she won't leave

the house. They are debating trying a different med combo, but of course they

risk destabilizing her. The horrible medication nightmare is just beginning

for them. And they want a different doctor because the one they got (in an

emergency situation) barely speaks English.

And THEN this evening I heard my other neighbor, who has three small

(under 5) boys, all with physical AND mental disabilities (maybe autism?

PPD?an unusual genetic disorder?) is moving. Her husband finally joined the

army so they could afford the health care their boys need. Of course they

will now move every three years, requiring new doctors, psychiatrists, etc.,

but at least they will have insurance. What kind of world is this where a

family with that much on their plate has to resign themselves to moving every

three years just so their kids will have appropriate care?? And how CAN they

get appropriate care if they have new doctors every three years??(Kathy H. -

their first post in is Hawaii! Maybe I could hook them up with 's

beloved para!!)

Sigh. Sorry to be so down, but I had to vent for a minute. At least

my daughter has insurance and both a child psychiatrist and a psychologist

looking after her. But that is only one child out of five on our little

street!!

Anyway, enough. I hope everyone has a peaceful and lovely spring

weekend.

[Guest guest]

Hello everyone,

What a week. I feel so sad after weeks like this when I feel as if

half the children in the world have huge problems and none of them get the

help they need. Reading J.'s reports on Tommy make me feel both sad and

happy that at least they are getting some help - but it always seems to be

two steps backward, one step forward...

So, on the home front - Annie has started picking at her scalp

until it bleeds, and then picking at the scabs and then... you get the

picture. She insists it's going away, but yesterday she came down in the a.m.

with her head a bloody mess. Sigh. And today she and her best friend had a

huge fight, which i guess has been simmering all week (hence the sudden

upswing in OCD probably). So she is a mess, and very very sad.

Then I found out today that my neighbor's 16 yr. old had a " nervous

breakdown " last month and has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and

perhaps schizophrenia. She can't go back to high school because of her

anxiety and is on homebound instruction. Her parents are just starting on

this whole journey (bright spot : I was able to direct them to a great child

psych. at least). She has such bad tremors from the meds that she won't leave

the house. They are debating trying a different med combo, but of course they

risk destabilizing her. The horrible medication nightmare is just beginning

for them. And they want a different doctor because the one they got (in an

emergency situation) barely speaks English.

And THEN this evening I heard my other neighbor, who has three small

(under 5) boys, all with physical AND mental disabilities (maybe autism?

PPD?an unusual genetic disorder?) is moving. Her husband finally joined the

army so they could afford the health care their boys need. Of course they

will now move every three years, requiring new doctors, psychiatrists, etc.,

but at least they will have insurance. What kind of world is this where a

family with that much on their plate has to resign themselves to moving every

three years just so their kids will have appropriate care?? And how CAN they

get appropriate care if they have new doctors every three years??(Kathy H. -

their first post in is Hawaii! Maybe I could hook them up with 's

beloved para!!)

Sigh. Sorry to be so down, but I had to vent for a minute. At least

my daughter has insurance and both a child psychiatrist and a psychologist

looking after her. But that is only one child out of five on our little

street!!

Anyway, enough. I hope everyone has a peaceful and lovely spring

weekend.

[Guest guest]

Hi , you wrote:

Sigh. Sorry to be so down, but I had to vent for a minute. At least

my daughter has insurance and both a child psychiatrist and a psychologist

looking after her. But that is only one child out of five on our little

street!!

Five children with brain disorders on one little street...I sometimes wonder

what is going on, I just don't remember brain disorders being so common when I

was growing up. Or, are we just better at diagnosing and treating them these

days? I'm thinking of autism spectrum, ADD, etc. as much as the anxiety

disorders. In any case it's wierd when one of the things you have to be

thankful for is so basic: that your daughter has access to appropriate care.

Yet I realize I am lucky too in this regard and can easily think of three or

four families I know who are not so lucky.

Kathy R. in Indiana

[Guest guest]

Hi , you wrote:

Sigh. Sorry to be so down, but I had to vent for a minute. At least

my daughter has insurance and both a child psychiatrist and a psychologist

looking after her. But that is only one child out of five on our little

street!!

Five children with brain disorders on one little street...I sometimes wonder

what is going on, I just don't remember brain disorders being so common when I

was growing up. Or, are we just better at diagnosing and treating them these

days? I'm thinking of autism spectrum, ADD, etc. as much as the anxiety

disorders. In any case it's wierd when one of the things you have to be

thankful for is so basic: that your daughter has access to appropriate care.

Yet I realize I am lucky too in this regard and can easily think of three or

four families I know who are not so lucky.

Kathy R. in Indiana

[Guest guest]

Hi , you wrote:

Sigh. Sorry to be so down, but I had to vent for a minute. At least

my daughter has insurance and both a child psychiatrist and a psychologist

looking after her. But that is only one child out of five on our little

street!!

Five children with brain disorders on one little street...I sometimes wonder

what is going on, I just don't remember brain disorders being so common when I

was growing up. Or, are we just better at diagnosing and treating them these

days? I'm thinking of autism spectrum, ADD, etc. as much as the anxiety

disorders. In any case it's wierd when one of the things you have to be

thankful for is so basic: that your daughter has access to appropriate care.

Yet I realize I am lucky too in this regard and can easily think of three or

four families I know who are not so lucky.

Kathy R. in Indiana

[Guest guest]

We frequently talk about the fact that almost no families with only NDA

kids understand. They have 'ordinary' kids (never mind the grief that

that brings). We have special kids.

With Jan's terrible illnesses of the past couple of years, we've done

some thinking. She has touched so many people, whether it was a first

grade class she lectured to (without parents) about her role as an

athlete in 1995 World Games or whether it is her influence on her own

family. We did think about the 'what if's' if she didn't make it. This

one person has had an incredible influence on hundreds of others. Not

too many people have done so well.

Our opinion is that most families just have ordinary children (and all

the grief that comes with ordinary children). We're lucky. We've got

one who changed our lives, the lives of their siblings, and lives of

many, many others.

It isn't that Jan wouldn't choose not to have down syndrome, but you get

that the same as curly hair. It's what you are and what you build on,

not the image of what you might have been. (BTW, I'm the one in the

family with curly hair)

Each of us have different children (or perhaps other relationships) with

DS. Each of our children brings a richness to life that wouldn't have

been experienced without them. What more could we ask, even though it

gets tough at times.

Rick ......... dad to 29 year old Jan

[Guest guest]

Well said Rick!!! Thank you.

Elaine

re: our kids

We frequently talk about the fact that almost no families with only NDA

kids understand. They have 'ordinary' kids (never mind the grief that

that brings). We have special kids.

With Jan's terrible illnesses of the past couple of years, we've done

some thinking. She has touched so many people, whether it was a first

grade class she lectured to (without parents) about her role as an

athlete in 1995 World Games or whether it is her influence on her own

family. We did think about the 'what if's' if she didn't make it. This

one person has had an incredible influence on hundreds of others. Not

too many people have done so well.

Our opinion is that most families just have ordinary children (and all

the grief that comes with ordinary children). We're lucky. We've got

one who changed our lives, the lives of their siblings, and lives of

many, many others.

It isn't that Jan wouldn't choose not to have down syndrome, but you get

that the same as curly hair. It's what you are and what you build on,

not the image of what you might have been. (BTW, I'm the one in the

family with curly hair)

Each of us have different children (or perhaps other relationships) with

DS. Each of our children brings a richness to life that wouldn't have

been experienced without them. What more could we ask, even though it

gets tough at times.

Rick ......... dad to 29 year old Jan

[Guest guest]

Ooooo, good idea.

> This is more scariness. How bout letting know?

> mike@m...

> Isn't Flint his hometown?

>

>

> The following " program " was initiated by the Flint Community School

System

> in Flint, Michigan....grades K-3...DISGUSTING. How in the hell

could a

> kindergardner or 3rd grader for that matter give accurate

information on

> what is being asked? AND this is NOBODYS BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

> It is listed as part of the Student Assistance Program under the

Ofc. of

> Safe and Drug Free Schools but is being labeled as a 'fun' program

that will

> boost children's confidence in school. It is aimed at children in K-

3rd

> grade.The 8 areas that may be administered as part of a " student

survey,

> analysis, or evaluation " are:

>

> 1. Political affiliations or beliefs of the student or student's

family

> 2. Mental or psychological problems of the student or student's

family

> 3. Sex behavior or attitudes

> 4.Illegal, anti-social, self-incriminating, or demeaning behavior

> 5.Critical appraisals of others with whom respondents have close

family

> relationships

> 6. Legally recognized privileged relationships, such as with

lawyers,

> doctors, or ministers

> 7. Religious practices, affiliations, or beliefs of the student or

parents

> 8.Income, other than as required by law to determine program

eligibility

>

> Parents have the opportunity to opt-out but we all know how easily

the

> school could make a mistake (either legitimately or otherwise) and

allow our

> children to be put through a series of questions that in completely

> unnecessary and infringes upon our privacy and rights.

>

>

> Kathy Paro-Smeby

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ooooo, good idea.

> This is more scariness. How bout letting know?

> mike@m...

> Isn't Flint his hometown?

>

>

> The following " program " was initiated by the Flint Community School

System

> in Flint, Michigan....grades K-3...DISGUSTING. How in the hell

could a

> kindergardner or 3rd grader for that matter give accurate

information on

> what is being asked? AND this is NOBODYS BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

> It is listed as part of the Student Assistance Program under the

Ofc. of

> Safe and Drug Free Schools but is being labeled as a 'fun' program

that will

> boost children's confidence in school. It is aimed at children in K-

3rd

> grade.The 8 areas that may be administered as part of a " student

survey,

> analysis, or evaluation " are:

>

> 1. Political affiliations or beliefs of the student or student's

family

> 2. Mental or psychological problems of the student or student's

family

> 3. Sex behavior or attitudes

> 4.Illegal, anti-social, self-incriminating, or demeaning behavior

> 5.Critical appraisals of others with whom respondents have close

family

> relationships

> 6. Legally recognized privileged relationships, such as with

lawyers,

> doctors, or ministers

> 7. Religious practices, affiliations, or beliefs of the student or

parents

> 8.Income, other than as required by law to determine program

eligibility

>

> Parents have the opportunity to opt-out but we all know how easily

the

> school could make a mistake (either legitimately or otherwise) and

allow our

> children to be put through a series of questions that in completely

> unnecessary and infringes upon our privacy and rights.

>

>

> Kathy Paro-Smeby

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ooooo, good idea.

> This is more scariness. How bout letting know?

> mike@m...

> Isn't Flint his hometown?

>

>

> The following " program " was initiated by the Flint Community School

System

> in Flint, Michigan....grades K-3...DISGUSTING. How in the hell

could a

> kindergardner or 3rd grader for that matter give accurate

information on

> what is being asked? AND this is NOBODYS BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

> It is listed as part of the Student Assistance Program under the

Ofc. of

> Safe and Drug Free Schools but is being labeled as a 'fun' program

that will

> boost children's confidence in school. It is aimed at children in K-

3rd

> grade.The 8 areas that may be administered as part of a " student

survey,

> analysis, or evaluation " are:

>

> 1. Political affiliations or beliefs of the student or student's

family

> 2. Mental or psychological problems of the student or student's

family

> 3. Sex behavior or attitudes

> 4.Illegal, anti-social, self-incriminating, or demeaning behavior

> 5.Critical appraisals of others with whom respondents have close

family

> relationships

> 6. Legally recognized privileged relationships, such as with

lawyers,

> doctors, or ministers

> 7. Religious practices, affiliations, or beliefs of the student or

parents

> 8.Income, other than as required by law to determine program

eligibility

>

> Parents have the opportunity to opt-out but we all know how easily

the

> school could make a mistake (either legitimately or otherwise) and

allow our

> children to be put through a series of questions that in completely

> unnecessary and infringes upon our privacy and rights.

>

>

> Kathy Paro-Smeby

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ooooo, good idea.

> This is more scariness. How bout letting know?

> mike@m...

> Isn't Flint his hometown?

>

>

> The following " program " was initiated by the Flint Community School

System

> in Flint, Michigan....grades K-3...DISGUSTING. How in the hell

could a

> kindergardner or 3rd grader for that matter give accurate

information on

> what is being asked? AND this is NOBODYS BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

> It is listed as part of the Student Assistance Program under the

Ofc. of

> Safe and Drug Free Schools but is being labeled as a 'fun' program

that will

> boost children's confidence in school. It is aimed at children in K-

3rd

> grade.The 8 areas that may be administered as part of a " student

survey,

> analysis, or evaluation " are:

>

> 1. Political affiliations or beliefs of the student or student's

family

> 2. Mental or psychological problems of the student or student's

family

> 3. Sex behavior or attitudes

> 4.Illegal, anti-social, self-incriminating, or demeaning behavior

> 5.Critical appraisals of others with whom respondents have close

family

> relationships

> 6. Legally recognized privileged relationships, such as with

lawyers,

> doctors, or ministers

> 7. Religious practices, affiliations, or beliefs of the student or

parents

> 8.Income, other than as required by law to determine program

eligibility

>

> Parents have the opportunity to opt-out but we all know how easily

the

> school could make a mistake (either legitimately or otherwise) and

allow our

> children to be put through a series of questions that in completely

> unnecessary and infringes upon our privacy and rights.

>

>

> Kathy Paro-Smeby

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is more scariness. How bout letting know?

mike@...

Isn't Flint his hometown?

The following " program " was initiated by the Flint Community School System

in Flint, Michigan....grades K-3...DISGUSTING. How in the hell could a

kindergardner or 3rd grader for that matter give accurate information on

what is being asked? AND this is NOBODYS BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is listed as part of the Student Assistance Program under the Ofc. of

Safe and Drug Free Schools but is being labeled as a 'fun' program that will

boost children's confidence in school. It is aimed at children in K-3rd

grade.The 8 areas that may be administered as part of a " student survey,

analysis, or evaluation " are:

1. Political affiliations or beliefs of the student or student's family

2. Mental or psychological problems of the student or student's family

3. Sex behavior or attitudes

4.Illegal, anti-social, self-incriminating, or demeaning behavior

5.Critical appraisals of others with whom respondents have close family

relationships

6. Legally recognized privileged relationships, such as with lawyers,

doctors, or ministers

7. Religious practices, affiliations, or beliefs of the student or parents

8.Income, other than as required by law to determine program eligibility

Parents have the opportunity to opt-out but we all know how easily the

school could make a mistake (either legitimately or otherwise) and allow our

children to be put through a series of questions that in completely

unnecessary and infringes upon our privacy and rights.

Kathy Paro-Smeby

[Guest guest]

Jim,

I think the thing that jumped out at me in that whole post was the question

about the parents' political affiliation. I couldn't help but think of the

article I shared with you off-list all the whiling that it was a rumor ...

and my question is, what business is it of theirs whether the parents are

liberal, conservative, apolitical, or not comfortable with the left/right

paradigm at all?I'm off-line now but will definitely send this alert to

, it's very serious indeed!

[Guest guest]

Jim,

I think the thing that jumped out at me in that whole post was the question

about the parents' political affiliation. I couldn't help but think of the

article I shared with you off-list all the whiling that it was a rumor ...

and my question is, what business is it of theirs whether the parents are

liberal, conservative, apolitical, or not comfortable with the left/right

paradigm at all?I'm off-line now but will definitely send this alert to

, it's very serious indeed!

[Guest guest]

,

Yes and very Un-American, the real America that is, the one in my heart

Constant awareness and willingness to fight back, that is the price of

freedom.

Best,

Jim

Jim,

I think the thing that jumped out at me in that whole post was the

question about the parents' political affiliation. I couldn't help but

think of the article I shared with you off-list all the whiling that it

was a rumor ... and my question is, what business is it of theirs whether

the parents are liberal, conservative, apolitical, or not comfortable with

the left/right paradigm at all?I'm off-line now but will definitely send

this alert to , it's very serious indeed!

[Guest guest]

,

Yes and very Un-American, the real America that is, the one in my heart

Constant awareness and willingness to fight back, that is the price of

freedom.

Best,

Jim

Jim,

I think the thing that jumped out at me in that whole post was the

question about the parents' political affiliation. I couldn't help but

think of the article I shared with you off-list all the whiling that it

was a rumor ... and my question is, what business is it of theirs whether

the parents are liberal, conservative, apolitical, or not comfortable with

the left/right paradigm at all?I'm off-line now but will definitely send

this alert to , it's very serious indeed!

[Guest guest]

Couldn't agree more ... I sent the email and some of my own

personal comments about websites and audio clips he might use in his

documentary. I also was struck by the wording under question 2 about political

affiliations of the parents, they want to know the parents' political beliefs ..

so if Mommy says we didn't get fair or free elections or she is opposed to a

certain political policy and little ny or Susie answers the questionaire,

one wonders what will be the consequences. Later on in the questionaire they

ask about the parents' religious beliefs .. and in my opinion neither the parent

nor the child should have to give out that information is they so choose!

You're right that we need to be vigillant, .. which is why the framers of the

Constitution added the Bill of Rights, most importantly in this case the First

Ammendment.

One thing I'm wondering is if Gloria or Sheila from http://www.ablechild.org

have seen this, if not, they need to.

[Guest guest]

Couldn't agree more ... I sent the email and some of my own

personal comments about websites and audio clips he might use in his

documentary. I also was struck by the wording under question 2 about political

affiliations of the parents, they want to know the parents' political beliefs ..

so if Mommy says we didn't get fair or free elections or she is opposed to a

certain political policy and little ny or Susie answers the questionaire,

one wonders what will be the consequences. Later on in the questionaire they

ask about the parents' religious beliefs .. and in my opinion neither the parent

nor the child should have to give out that information is they so choose!

You're right that we need to be vigillant, .. which is why the framers of the

Constitution added the Bill of Rights, most importantly in this case the First

Ammendment.

One thing I'm wondering is if Gloria or Sheila from http://www.ablechild.org

have seen this, if not, they need to.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Kathy!

I was doing a bit of brainstorming last night .. and it occurred to me that we

might do several things. First, I'd like to contact both the Rutherford

Institute and the Christian Law Association with this information ... they need

a heads-up about the enfringement of parents' and children's rights in the

nature of the questions, especially the ones about the parents' political and

religious beliefs. If the folks at ablechild.org can get on it, they can

mobilize religious and civil liberties groups to stop the questionaire from

being used. I'd also encourage you to contact the ACLU in your area and be

prepared to present to them either a hard copy or a link if you have it to the

Flint MI Community School System's screening questionaire if they have it on the

website, that is depending on how secretive they are about this. I think it's

disgusting too and the sooner we all get on it the better.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Kathy!

I was doing a bit of brainstorming last night .. and it occurred to me that we

might do several things. First, I'd like to contact both the Rutherford

Institute and the Christian Law Association with this information ... they need

a heads-up about the enfringement of parents' and children's rights in the

nature of the questions, especially the ones about the parents' political and

religious beliefs. If the folks at ablechild.org can get on it, they can

mobilize religious and civil liberties groups to stop the questionaire from

being used. I'd also encourage you to contact the ACLU in your area and be

prepared to present to them either a hard copy or a link if you have it to the

Flint MI Community School System's screening questionaire if they have it on the

website, that is depending on how secretive they are about this. I think it's

disgusting too and the sooner we all get on it the better.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Kathy!

I was doing a bit of brainstorming last night .. and it occurred to me that we

might do several things. First, I'd like to contact both the Rutherford

Institute and the Christian Law Association with this information ... they need

a heads-up about the enfringement of parents' and children's rights in the

nature of the questions, especially the ones about the parents' political and

religious beliefs. If the folks at ablechild.org can get on it, they can

mobilize religious and civil liberties groups to stop the questionaire from

being used. I'd also encourage you to contact the ACLU in your area and be

prepared to present to them either a hard copy or a link if you have it to the

Flint MI Community School System's screening questionaire if they have it on the

website, that is depending on how secretive they are about this. I think it's

disgusting too and the sooner we all get on it the better.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Kathy!

I was doing a bit of brainstorming last night .. and it occurred to me that we

might do several things. First, I'd like to contact both the Rutherford

Institute and the Christian Law Association with this information ... they need

a heads-up about the enfringement of parents' and children's rights in the

nature of the questions, especially the ones about the parents' political and

religious beliefs. If the folks at ablechild.org can get on it, they can

mobilize religious and civil liberties groups to stop the questionaire from

being used. I'd also encourage you to contact the ACLU in your area and be

prepared to present to them either a hard copy or a link if you have it to the

Flint MI Community School System's screening questionaire if they have it on the

website, that is depending on how secretive they are about this. I think it's

disgusting too and the sooner we all get on it the better.

[Guest guest]

Sent e-mail to . Also sent info to Able Child website. Getting

ready to write the Flint Journal. I would write to Grandholm (Gov.) but I don't

trust her. I was told by a retired Flint Journal criminal writer that there are

" dirty " people in that office. (Drug running in state, etc.)

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Sent e-mail to . Also sent info to Able Child website. Getting

ready to write the Flint Journal. I would write to Grandholm (Gov.) but I don't

trust her. I was told by a retired Flint Journal criminal writer that there are

" dirty " people in that office. (Drug running in state, etc.)

Kathy