meltdowns

[Guest guest]

Hi Kari-

My son has the same kind of meltdowns--and we have tried all the

traditional kinds of intervention, but found that they just didn't

address his issues. Finally, I read The Explosive Child by Ross Green.

I really recommend the approach he describes in learning to let most of

the issues go---because they are simply not worth having the battle over

(example: insisting that your child eat a green vegetable is not worth a

3 hour tantrum). His theory is that some kids (these explosive kind)

can not be reasoned with when they are in the middle of an opposition.

Something in their brain prevents them from thinking rationally. So

what is the point of insisting they eat a green vegetable and letting

them scream for 3 hours, when they will not learn from that incident to

eat their green vegetable without a problem next time. He says that we

need to do everything we can do to keep the kids in a rational frame of

mind (and that means giving in in areas where we may not really want

to--except for safety issues) and help them learn coping mechanisms

when they are coherent and not aggitated.

I have found that my son will come around on his own when I back away

from confrontation and insisting. For example, I may suggest that he

zip his coat before he goes outside, but I won't insist because I know

that could lead to a rage. Most of the time he will say that he is fine

with his coat unzipped, but within minutes he is asking me to help him

zip his coat. Another example is that I have learned to give my son

extra time. Many times, when I ask him to do something (put your dishes

in the sink), he will automatically respond, " in a minute " . If I insist

that he do it right now, I can expect a battle. If I say " okay " to his

request, then his dishes are in the sink within seconds.....It seems to

go against intuitive parenting skills, but it has helped tremendously

for us at home. It is not meant to be the answer, either, but it

prevents all the battles while your child matures and progresses toward

more appropriate behavior.

Hope that is helpful. Get the book....

Message: 22

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:41:41 -0800

From: " Kari Trautman " <karitrautman@...>

Subject: OT: Meltdowns

My 3 yr old is not autistic, yet does definitely have signs of mercury

poisoning to some extent. Which I am looking to address. But when he

gets overtired or perhaps something bothering him, his meltdowns just

don't seen normal. Others' will say it's a stage and he's just

tantruming, but I'm wondering if others have advice as to how to handle

them. He simplely can't regroup. Like a broken record in his head, he

can't let something go. We're trying a little GSE so that could be the

case for tonight, but he got upset because he couldn't put the spaghetti

on his own plate and pitched a fit. That went on, and on, and on.

Finally after almost 2 hours, we gave him what he wanted and he was

fine. Fine, but obviously exhausted after crying for 2 hours! He ate

peacefully, and went straight to bed. Although I did try to hold out

thinking it was some sort of battle of wills, I know in my heart it

wasn't that.

I believe it is his neurotransmitters that are like inflamed and he

can't shut off his emotions, but was wondering if others have a way for

dealing with this obsessive type of behavior? In some ways I did

exactly what they say not to do, (don't give in to your child's demands

or else you teach them the trick is to cry for 2 hours and you get your

way), yet I didn't have the stamina to hold out for how ever many hours

it would take for him to finally passout. If that is he every would!

Thanks,

Kari

[Guest guest]

Kari

This article may interest you. The boy in the story might not be an exact

description of your child but, I believe, it shows how these emotions can be out

of the child's control and only treatment can help. Attached is the link to the

website.

I pray this helps!

Marilyn

http://www.wholehealthnow.com/books/wad-stories-2.html

When he is refused something he cannot accept this, throws a chair, destroys

things, uses foul language. When he wants something he must have it now and on

the spot, otherwise he explodes. These tempers were quite outspoken and more

pronounced than usual the last month.

But on the other hand he can be very affectionate and loving, and like an angel.

Past (homeopathic) History

I saw for the first time when he was about one year old with colds and

recurrent bouts of bronchitis with coughing. He was a very easy baby, loved to

be cuddle, was breast-fed for 6 months. He had his first bronchitis at 7 weeks.

When the feeding bottle is empty, he throws the bottle away and throws himself

on the ground and is very angry. The same behavior when he is taken out of the

bath.

Has curly hair, blond, blue sclerae and sleeps the first part of the night in

the knee-chest position. He is always short of food and gets angry then. He

consumes half a liter of milk a day. Worse from 23.00 - 24.00 (restless, cough)

With Tuberculinum aviare he gets better.

Pregnancy - birth

Mother had an aversion to coffee in pregnancy (indicative of cow's milk

allergy).

Birth itself was no problem, but two hours after birth mother suffered severe

abdominal pain and blood-loss with very high pulse-rate, and that was the

beginning of months of misery, weakness, and chronic anemia that didn't react to

allopathic medication.

She felt more than once quite guilty towards the baby for not giving him the

full attention that she wanted to give. After Ferrum metallicum 200 there was a

dramatic amelioration.

Then in 1994 I see again. There is no more respiratory or ear trouble. But

now he has all of a sudden eye problems: hypermetropia left 4+ and right 2+.

Last month also the temper tantrums came back (like he had as a baby). He is so

angry then, throws things, you cannot touch him, but all of a sudden everything

is over. There are always eating problems, he always has something else to do,

dinner gets cold, doesn't want to sit at the table, says he doesn't like the

food, but afterwards he eats everything with relish. What he detests one day he

loves the next. He is very changeable in moods.

After a temper tantrum he doesn't show any remorse: he looks the other way, it

all seems not to get through to him. For instance his older brother played

" dead " on the floor, jumps on him with his knees on top, his brother had a

few bruised ribs but 's only reaction is: " when are we going to eat? " and

then eats with relish. He doesn't tell anything about school. If you ask him he

says: " I don't know anymore. "

Especially when something happened at school in which he played a part - one

time he had bitten another child (he said later: " I was so angry, I was totally

confused " ). He is afraid in the dark, dreams of witches who are after him,

doesn't want to sleep alone, he still wets the bed. He is left-handed. He is

quite clever at school, but also quite hyper. At kindergarten he cried when his

mother left (for three months) and at the new school (next level) the same

problem was repeated.

These last weeks his mother is not allowed to go to work, he throws himself in

front of her, keeps the door shut. He sings a lot and can play the clown of the

family. When eating an ice cream he gets a pain in his lower back.

The Tuberculinum is repeated and again acts satisfactorily. And then 6 years

later I see him again now with his diabetes

Analysis

Back in 1990 when I first saw as a one-year-old the remedy I gave now was

not in general use or even properly proved. Nowadays it is one of the

best-proved remedies (but not yet published).

Lac maternum is the remedy I gave now because of - His reactions as a baby to

food: never enough and temper tantrums when no more food (in our proving of Lac

humanum we had a lot of dreams about food)

- Probable bonding problems because of illness of the mother after birth

- bonding problems with mother figures at school

- Insensitivity/hard-heartedness

- Diabetes, a food/sugar related illness, where all Lac's are important remedies

I also stopped diary products for the following reasons:

1 If Lac maternum is the remedy then there is bound to be a sensitivity to milk

2 When we look at the rubric diabetes there are a lot of milk-derivatives in the

rubric (Lac-ac, lac-c, lac-d, lac-v, Natrium lacticum) indicating a possibly

causal relationship between milk-consumption and diabetes

3 Mother had an aversion to coffee in the pregnancy, which is associated in a

significant degree with cow's-milk allergy in the child

4 Also a kinesiology test indicated a sensitivity to cow's milk

After one day he could cut one unit of insulin off his evening dose, and after

one week he was using half of his usual insulin (morning and evening dose). From

7 February onwards (so three weeks after his first Lac maternum) he was off the

insulin. He still keeps to his diet and is also without cows-milk products.

He had a nightmare in which people ordered him to open the front door, but he

said they could not come in because his mother was not at home and then they

threatened to kill him. Dreams in which bikes played a role, of a beauty contest

which he is joining in. At school there are no problems anymore (though the old

teacher is still not back).

His mother says he has been changing the last weeks, is more understanding,

could be so hardhearted and insensitive when he could not get his way. For

instance on a Saturday afternoon a few weeks ago he insisted on going to the

barber: just phone him, phone him.

Then the barber had just closed and then he gets angry and scolds his mother:

you promised, you never keep your promises, you are a cunt (it was mentioned as

a possibility earlier in the week to go to the barber).

Now it was possible to get through to him (after a 2 hour talk) and explain that

he hurts people saying things like that, and if it gets through you can see him

change, relax and sigh saying: " yes, it's not your fault that the barber's

closed. "

He always wants to be with the whole family, always asks at what time his mother

is coming home when she has left for work. He can't stand his mother crying; he

never cries himself.

Lately his mother hears him saying he feels pity for some boy (never felt pity

before for someone), or shows sympathy with hungry children on television (used

to laugh it away). For Valentine's Day he made a beautiful heart for his parents

and said: " I love you very much " (has never done that).

His looks are very important to him: he often stands in front of the mirror or

does a dance-step looking at himself in a window glass (doesn't notice/mind if

someone sees it).

On the 19th of February he had a one-off glucose-level of 19 (normal 4-7), but

he had a cold that day, and it returned to normal without a remedy.

Rx: Lac maternum 10M

Follow up 6-4-01

After Lac maternum 10M he had a dream that he checked his blood and the glucose

was at 1.8 (without using insulin). His parents were with him and all were

amazed.

One time he came home crying from school because he was not allowed to practice

his playback act. This never happened before otherwise he would have only been

very angry and scolding. For 4 days now his glucose-level is at 7-8, he has a

cold and he twisted his knee playing soccer.

Rx: repeat Lac maternum 10M

Follow up 27-4-01

Immediately after the repetition of the remedy the cold symptoms vanished,

blood-glucose returned to normal and also his knee symptoms improved right away.

The first week after the remedy he was sent out of the classroom every day, as

the teacher was not able to get into contact with him in any way.

Dream:

he could not do his goal keeping because of his injured knee and they tried to

find somebody to replace him (he now wants to be a mid-field player instead of

goalkeeper)

Dream:

in a sweetshop a man is sharing sweets, and takes one without realizing he

is not allowed to have sweets. Then he realizes (too late), the taste of the

candy is too sweet and sour, he doesn't like it.

Dream:

's brother with the mother of a friend is chasing and his mother.

Twice he had a major fight with his brother, full of cursing and hate. On 18-4

he had a tennis match and he got into a quarrel with his opponent about a ball

being in or out. He got so angry that he didn't want to play anymore, he walked

out and could not initially be reasoned with.

After a lot of persuasion he continued the game, which he lost in the end. He

refused to shake hands with his opponent as he was still angry. In the afternoon

he had to play a second match and this time he is totally different, cozily

chats with his opponent, doesn't fuss about balls being in or out. After the

match he decided to shake hands with his first opponent too.

Since that day he is a totally different child, affectionate, sweet, full of

understanding, other children come and contact him, he has a certain attractive

charm to them. Yesterday even two girls came to his house to ask if he wanted to

play with them (never happened before).

Follow up 2-7-01

Tempers come back a little - when his behavior is worse also the blood sugar is

above 7

.. Rx: Lac maternum 50M

Follow up 1-9-01

Everything still OK.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I need to read this book! I've been learning all this the hard way-

trial and error. I totally agree with all this, it's what I've found

with my daughter. Of course, I'm told I'm spoiling my child; but by

keeping her in the rational mind we get a lot further and she learns

a lot more. Thank you for posting this!

Becky

> Hi Kari-

>

> My son has the same kind of meltdowns--and we have tried all the

> traditional kinds of intervention, but found that they just didn't

> address his issues. Finally, I read The Explosive Child by Ross

Green.

> I really recommend the approach he describes in learning to let

most of

> the issues go---because they are simply not worth having the battle

over

> (example: insisting that your child eat a green vegetable is not

worth a

> 3 hour tantrum). His theory is that some kids (these explosive

kind)

> can not be reasoned with when they are in the middle of an

opposition.

> Something in their brain prevents them from thinking rationally.

So

> what is the point of insisting they eat a green vegetable and

letting

> them scream for 3 hours, when they will not learn from that

incident to

> eat their green vegetable without a problem next time. He says

that we

> need to do everything we can do to keep the kids in a rational

frame of

> mind (and that means giving in in areas where we may not really

want

> to--except for safety issues) and help them learn coping

mechanisms

> when they are coherent and not aggitated.

>

> I have found that my son will come around on his own when I back

away

> from confrontation and insisting. For example, I may suggest that

he

> zip his coat before he goes outside, but I won't insist because I

know

> that could lead to a rage. Most of the time he will say that he is

fine

> with his coat unzipped, but within minutes he is asking me to help

him

> zip his coat. Another example is that I have learned to give my

son

> extra time. Many times, when I ask him to do something (put your

dishes

> in the sink), he will automatically respond, " in a minute " . If I

insist

> that he do it right now, I can expect a battle. If I say " okay " to

his

> request, then his dishes are in the sink within seconds.....It

seems to

> go against intuitive parenting skills, but it has helped

tremendously

> for us at home. It is not meant to be the answer, either, but it

> prevents all the battles while your child matures and progresses

toward

> more appropriate behavior.

>

> Hope that is helpful. Get the book....

>

>

>

>

> Message: 22

> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:41:41 -0800

> From: " Kari Trautman " <karitrautman@e...>

> Subject: OT: Meltdowns

>

> My 3 yr old is not autistic, yet does definitely have signs of

mercury

> poisoning to some extent. Which I am looking to address. But when

he

> gets overtired or perhaps something bothering him, his meltdowns

just

> don't seen normal. Others' will say it's a stage and he's just

> tantruming, but I'm wondering if others have advice as to how to

handle

> them. He simplely can't regroup. Like a broken record in his

head, he

> can't let something go. We're trying a little GSE so that could be

the

> case for tonight, but he got upset because he couldn't put the

spaghetti

> on his own plate and pitched a fit. That went on, and on, and

on.

> Finally after almost 2 hours, we gave him what he wanted and he was

> fine. Fine, but obviously exhausted after crying for 2 hours! He

ate

> peacefully, and went straight to bed. Although I did try to hold

out

> thinking it was some sort of battle of wills, I know in my heart it

> wasn't that.

> I believe it is his neurotransmitters that are like inflamed and he

> can't shut off his emotions, but was wondering if others have a way

for

> dealing with this obsessive type of behavior? In some ways I did

> exactly what they say not to do, (don't give in to your child's

demands

> or else you teach them the trick is to cry for 2 hours and you get

your

> way), yet I didn't have the stamina to hold out for how ever many

hours

> it would take for him to finally passout. If that is he every

would!

> Thanks,

> Kari

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Please share your experience and wisdom with me. My 6 1/2 yr old AS

> daughter is experiencing frequent meltdowns right now, a few a day.

> It hasn't been this bad in years. Yesterday, I had to run a few

> errands in the morning, about 2 out of the 4 were done and she

> decided that she was done. I am a single mom with two other small

> children so I don't have a lot of time and I needed to get these

> things done. When we finished the 4th she refused to get back into

> the car. After trying to " reason " with her for 5 minutes, I ended

up

> getting her up and taking her to the car. The fit ensued. Mainly I

> want to know how to deal with it when we are in the car driving.

> What do you do? She is kicking, screaming, definitely not getting

> into her booster or her seatbelt. I've tried waiting her out, but

> sometimes it will just escalate, and other times I don't have the

> option because I have to get somewhere. Anyone have any phrases

that

> they use? And how do you maintain your calm? AS has taught me a lot

> of patience, but days like yesterday make me realize how much

> further I still have to go. Please help with any insight. I have

the

> book " Asperger Syndrome and the Difficult Moments " ordered and I am

> hoping that once I get it I will see something to apply too. Thank

> you all...I am so happy to have found this group.

>

> April

>

Believe it or not sometimes if I just start singing his lullaby he

will just go " limp " and calm down. I have also put on his favorite

song from a cd and repeat it over and over. No matter what, the key

with my son is for me to remain calm and speak calmly to him. I do

not allow myself to show any emotion...therefore not allowing him to

get an emotional rise from me.

April I am new here to, it has been a wonderful source of support

and information.

My son hates errands too...I always repeat what the schedule is for

the day until he understands. He is going on 8 AS, ADHD.

Hope that may help

Best Wishes,