Guest guest Posted January 13, 2005 Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 Josie, The key is to use two types of selenium, l-selenomethionine and methyselenocysteine. If you use a reputable brand of l-selenomethionine it does not have the toxicity issues, but just taking l-selenomethionione alone is useless as it is not properly utilized unless you also take methylselenocysteine. I use Source Naturals yeast free l-selenomethionine and VRP brand methylselenocysteine. On Jan 13, 2005, at 10:51 AM, Josie Lecraw wrote: > > : > > > > Can you say more about why you think selenium supplementation is toxic > waste? I haven't come across this anywhere - and I do supplement > myself > with selenium per Boyd Haley's presentation (and my own follow-up > research) > that selenium binds to (active sources of) mercury (for example from my > amalgams) and renders the mercury inactive. > > > > I am also pregnant at the moment so the subject is triply important > for me. > My own search of selenium rich foods showed that most foods that are > " supposed " to be rich in selenium (except the Brazil nuts) just aren't > these > days due to the soil and to transport etc - sort of analogous to how > are > vegetables are depleted in vitamins before they reach us. > > > > If I missed something important, I would love to know more!! > > > > Josie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2005 Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 Dear , I remember posting this same info a while ago. I cannot find the methyl type of selenium at my local health food store. Where do you purchase your VRP brand? Thanks, Re: Josie /Selenium > > Josie, > > The key is to use two types of selenium, l-selenomethionine and > methyselenocysteine. If you use a reputable brand of > l-selenomethionine it does not have the toxicity issues, but just > taking l-selenomethionione alone is useless as it is not properly > utilized unless you also take methylselenocysteine. I use Source > Naturals yeast free l-selenomethionine and VRP brand > methylselenocysteine. > > > > > On Jan 13, 2005, at 10:51 AM, Josie Lecraw wrote: > > > > > : > > > > > > > > Can you say more about why you think selenium supplementation is toxic > > waste? I haven't come across this anywhere - and I do supplement > > myself > > with selenium per Boyd Haley's presentation (and my own follow-up > > research) > > that selenium binds to (active sources of) mercury (for example from my > > amalgams) and renders the mercury inactive. > > > > > > > > I am also pregnant at the moment so the subject is triply important > > for me. > > My own search of selenium rich foods showed that most foods that are > > " supposed " to be rich in selenium (except the Brazil nuts) just aren't > > these > > days due to the soil and to transport etc - sort of analogous to how > > are > > vegetables are depleted in vitamins before they reach us. > > > > > > > > If I missed something important, I would love to know more!! > > > > > > > > Josie > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2005 Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 Josie, This is information from a New Year's Eve post from another list by the brilliant Hans Raible which extensively quotes Mark Konlee. It's long but useful but easy to read. Have you ever noticed that the people who really know their stuff are the best teachers? HTH, Mark Konlee has done a lot of hands-on research, and here is what he has to say on " Selenomethionine " . The best comes at the end. ************************ ************************ " L-Selenomethionine (made in a laboratory) is dropped from our list of recommended supplements. Mark Konlee (July, 2002, monthly report) The issue of what kind of selenium compound is safe and effective, in helping to restore immune function, has been an open question for several years. In this issue, I believe we are making some real progress toward resolving this outstanding question. Since beginning this series of articles on selenium, in September of 2001, I have consistently recommended food sources of selenium, especially Brazil Nuts, along with selenium bound to either Methionine or Cysteine, and to avoid sodium selenite, because of toxicity issues. With this month's report, we are no longer recommending L seleno-methionine (laboratory made) as a source of selenium, because of reported side effects and the absence of any noticeable benefits. Yes, we have changed our mind about this manufactured source of selenium. L-selenomethionine (SeM), as an amino acid chelate, is the most widely sold source of selenium available in health food stores, the other being sodium selenite. SeM is made in a laboratory under methods that try to bond selenium to the amino acid L-methionine. Albion is a manufacturer of L-selenomethionine and other amino acid chelates, and wholesales its products to dietary supplement manufacturers. With daily usage of L-selenomethionine as high as 1800 mcg over a period of several weeks and months, there is no evidence that fungal and staph infections are decreasing, no evidence that white blood cell counts or CD4 counts are increasing, and no evidence of other tangible benefits, except for a few published studies that indicate a small decline in mercury levels for a dose as low as 100 mcg daily. In contrast, the use of Brazil Nuts, the world's richest natural source of selenium, or supplements made from high selenium mustard greens (Ecological Formulas or Bio-Active Selenium by Solaray) or broccoli as in " Activated Selenium " by Jarrow Formulas, we are getting reports of increasing WBC and CD4 counts, the disappearance of fungal and staph infections, greater energy and well being, and in one case reported in this issue, an end to chronic fatigue syndrome. Most of these results are occurring very rapidly - often within the first week of use. However, in five cases, where the Albion source of seleno-methionine was consumed in high daily doses, ranging from 1200 to 1600 mcg, there are no beneficial results to report. Two of the cases were CFIDS related and 3 HIV related, with two of the three HIV+ persons also using drug cocktails. Nothing in the lab results of any of these three cases indicates any increase in WBC counts, CD4 or CD8 counts, or even a decrease in the viral load. In all five cases, none of the participants used any other form of selenium, other than the synthetic L-selenomethionine that is made in a laboratory. Only one of the five persons using the Albion source of L-selenomethionine reported using foods rich in selenium, like Brazil nuts, ocean fish or seaweed nor did any of the five persons have blood serum levels of selenium tested after using the methionine bound selenium for several weeks. Adverse effects from high doses of " L-selenomethionine " Granted that the usual dosage range of methionine bound selenium is 100 to 400 mcg daily, and side effects are quite unlikely to show up at these low levels; yet if this compound is not what the body wants, it should not be used in any amount. One reader with CFIDS took 1600 mcg daily of L-selenomethionine for several weeks and then had a numbing sensation on the right side of his body. He stopped using the selenium and fully recovered in a few days. After contacting me with this report, I initially was not convinced that the methionine bound selenium had anything to do with his symptoms, but suggested he switch to a food source of selenium and start with a low dose, 200 to 400 mcg daily, and gradually increase it. I also suggested he have his blood serum levels tested for selenium before starting on any new supplement. A second person using just 800 mcg daily of L selenomethionine noticed pain in the kidney area and stopped using it. Note: Alternatives to L selenomethionine are high selenium yeast (Selenomax - available from Source Naturals), high selenium broccoli (Activated Selenium by Jarrow Formulas), high selenium mustard greens (Bio-Active Selenium by Solaray or Selenium Cruciferate by Ecological Formulas). Solaray also sells other forms of selenium, so read labels carefully to avoid buying the wrong stuff. At this juncture, I am of the opinion that the Brazil nuts, high selenium mustard greens and broccoli, plus the high-selenium yeast, are the safest and most efficacious of all the selenium supplements. With high doses of selenomethionine, persons have also reported lung congestion, dermatitis and other skin conditions. Simon and Vale both reported adverse side effects from high doses of sodium selenite and selenomethionine. In an email from Simon in the UK, he said that at 1000 mcg daily of sodium selenite, his hair started falling out, but this stopped when he reduced the dose to 500 mcg daily. With equally high doses of selenomethionine, he reported big flare-ups of dermatitis. Both Vale and Simon reported the symptoms going away in a few days after stopping these selenium supplements. Another person, Del, also reported problems with high doses of selenomethionine. No one has reported any benefits. All the reports of adverse effects are coming from the synthetic or laboratory made L-selenomethionine (amino acid chelates) and not from any known natural plant source of seleno methionine. The problem may be defects in the product, resulting from flaws in the manufacturing process. Message Board reports several reports on experiences, both good and bad, of using various types of selenium can be read on the Message Board at our website (www.keephope.net). Here is one of them: [.....] July 5th, 2002. " Within the past few weeks I have reached a conclusion that there is a problem with L selenomethionine. Two HIV + and two persons with immune problems not HIV related used high doses of selenomethionine with no apparent good results. They used the amino acid chelate, Albion brand. No resolution of symptoms was reported by any of these 4 cases and no increases in T cell counts or white blood cells. On the contrary, concerning Jarrow Formulas " Activated Selenium " that has selenocysteine plus methionine also includes Vit. E, Riboflavin, broccoli and garlic - I have had two good reports from persons with long standing candidiasis). Both reported significant improvements in resolving candida infections after a week or two. The dose was around 900 mcg daily or 9 capsules a day. I was aware that Ecological Formulas had a mustard green source of selenium that had 200 mcg per capsule. Your source with Solaray sounds like the same thing at half the cost. Right now, I am taking 2 Activated Selenium by Jarrow Formulas with one Selenium Cruciferate by Ecological Formulas but will probably go with the Solaray brand in place of Ecological Formulas later on. I do this once or twice a day. I personally like this combination. Maybe it is time to send L selenomethionine down the pike, after the disappointing results of these 4 cases, and now the side effects that several of you have reported on this message board. Take Care. " Mark Konlee Good reports on Brazil nuts Kansas City, KS. Al, who has Gulf War Syndrome, reports very good results with eating about 10 Brazil nuts daily as his main source of selenium for the past 6 months although he also eats ocean fish 5 times a week. He reports his selenium blood serum levels are 240 mcg/l in a reference range that goes from 60 to 160. Note: Our goal is to increase the blood serum selenium levels to 300 to 600 mcg/l. Our normal reference range for selenium in blood serum is from 150 to 300 mcg/l. For now, we are disregarding the various low reference ranges given by different testing labs. Al reports that after consuming about 10 Brazil nuts daily for the past several months, his white blood count has increased from 3.1 to 4.3. Significantly, a chronic staph infection that he has had in his thumb for the past several years has completely healed. Previously, there was a flare-up of the infection with pus every 2 or 3 months. Several prescriptions of antibiotics failed to permanently eradicate the infection during the past 5 years. Al reports his thumb is now totally healed, he has no fungal or yeast infections, and feels basically normal. [...] Update: September, 2002: We now have 14 cases, where " Selenium " dietary supplements claiming to contain L-selenomethionine, have failed to provide any benefits, with half the persons using it reporting adverse side effects. One source told us that to sell selenium for under $2 a bottle, manufacturers have resorted to using the cheapest raw materials they can find and mixing in inorganic selenium and water and then spray drying it. No wonder these " amino acid chelates " are not working because they really are not what they claim to be - amino acid chelates. The real amino acid chelates are produced by nature and found only in plants. The synthesized versions made in labs are not only ineffective, they are not safe to use. Unfortunately, the vitamin discount houses are peddling this junk to the public on television and on the Internet, and telling people how much money they are saving. Saving money they are, but getting a selenium supplement that is safe and effective they are not. So far, two persons, who have used man-made L-selenomethionine, have had transitory strokes. These serious side effects occurred with doses ranging from 900 to 1600 mcg daily. Fortunately, both have recovered completely and are now using plant-based selenium supplements with no side effects. In well over 20 recent cases, the plant based sources of selenium (Bio-Active Selenium and SelenoMax) have completely resolved many cases of long standing of candidiasis, have reduced fatigue, increased T cell counts and WBCs, restored the ability to sweat and restored pure whiteness to the whites of the eyes. Not one case of adverse effects has been reported in the past year from using plant based selenium supplements at dosages up to 1800 mcg daily. Nov 19, 2002. An Albion employee admits their selenium product is not an amino acid chelate but a " complex " I found an advertisement for Albion Amino Acid chelates in a Health Supplement Retailer magazine (Vol 8, No 12). The ad stated " Nobody talks CHELATES like Albion CHELATES " and goes on to make the following claims: " Albion's patented chelation processes form mineral compounds that have a multitude of advantages! Nutritionally functional, Kosher-Parve, Chemically Validated, CAS Registered and Clinically Proven. " I went to their website at www.albion-an.com and looked for the clinical data and test results on their selenium amino acid chelate (L-selenomethionine). There was data on iron, zinc and some of the other amino acid chelates but I could find nothing on selenium so I called them at 1-586-774-9055. A female employee answered the phone. She, herself, did not know where to find the information about selenium on the company website, but said a company technician who could help me was at a meeting. I told her I wanted to see the test results and clinical data on L-selenomethionine, an amino-acid chelate that they manufactured. She then said that it was not actually an amino acid chelate but a " complex. " She added: " For various technical reasons, we have not been able to make amino acid chelates with selenium, boron or potassium. " I said: " That is interesting. I understand that a " complex " is a mixture of an inorganic mineral with an amino acid. " She replied: " that is correct. " I was so stunned by her admission that I forgot to ask her name before I hung up the phone. In fact, one place on the Albion website they boast that they do not make proteinates or " complexes " (mixtures of inorganic minerals and amino acids) but true structural amino acid chelates. I am aware of at least one major dietary supplement manufacturer (Futurebiotics) that sells selenium as an " amino acid chelate " made by Albion labs and calls it L-selenomethionine and not what it really is - an inorganic selenium in a base of L-methionine. Right now, there are millions of bottles of selenium described as L-seleno-methionine, from numerous dietary supplement manufacturers on store shelves that are mislabeled, and therefore misbranded. Where are the safety studies? In December 2002, I even sent the company an email about the safety questions raised from the use of their product and reported on the two persons who claim it caused them to get a transitory stroke. Albion has not replied to the email message. Selenium products that are safe to use are plant-based Only selenium sources made by nature (plant based) should ever be used. These include food sources like Brazil nuts and fish. In dietary supplements, many persons report wide range benefits from " Bio-Active Selenium " by Solaray. It is greenhouse grown mustard greens that absorb and convert significant amounts of inorganic selenium to its organic form. This product is high in naturally occurring l-seleno cysteine. Another plant-based source is selenium-yeast grown in a medium that converts inorganic selenium to the natural form. Selenium yeast is naturally high in real l-selenomethionine and not a shake and bake laboratory version that is toxic. Selenomax is one of several brands of selenium yeast. Which one is more effective? In my opinion and that of several readers, the Bio-Active Selenium is more effective. At least 2 persons have reported that 400 to 600 mcg daily of Bio-Active Selenium (2 to 3 capsules daily) is sufficient to prevent outbreaks of candidiasis whereas the selenium yeast is less effective and requires higher doses. My personal choice is @ Bio-Active Selenium caps daily along with 3 or 4 Brazil Nuts. " **************************** **************************** By far the cheapest are Brazil nuts. Here, one nut will cost about 4 cents, and it contains 70 micrograms of Se on average, but some contain up to 700. We are conditioned to regard higher amounts of Se as a poison, but this does not apply to these nuts which have been eaten with great success for thousands of years. The only restraint on their consumption is weight gain. Re: Josie /Selenium Josie, The key is to use two types of selenium, l-selenomethionine and methyselenocysteine. If you use a reputable brand of l-selenomethionine it does not have the toxicity issues, but just taking l-selenomethionione alone is useless as it is not properly utilized unless you also take methylselenocysteine. I use Source Naturals yeast free l-selenomethionine and VRP brand methylselenocysteine. On Jan 13, 2005, at 10:51 AM, Josie Lecraw wrote: > > : > > > > Can you say more about why you think selenium supplementation is toxic > waste? I haven't come across this anywhere - and I do supplement > myself > with selenium per Boyd Haley's presentation (and my own follow-up > research) > that selenium binds to (active sources of) mercury (for example from my > amalgams) and renders the mercury inactive. > > > > I am also pregnant at the moment so the subject is triply important > for me. > My own search of selenium rich foods showed that most foods that are > " supposed " to be rich in selenium (except the Brazil nuts) just aren't > these > days due to the soil and to transport etc - sort of analogous to how > are > vegetables are depleted in vitamins before they reach us. > > > > If I missed something important, I would love to know more!! > Josie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2005 Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 I read that same great article and did a lot of research myself as a result. This statement below is the key. Albion Labs selenomethionine is not a true chelate but a " complex " . I do agree that the best way to get this is in natural plant forms. However my daughter either cannot or will not eat those foods (Brazil nuts, beef, broccoli, etc.) and we have had incredible success using methylselenocysteine and Source Naturals selenomethionine, which is a true chelate and not made like the Albion labs version. That is the reason why I mentioned that the brand matters. I do agree on the natural plant sources like Brazil nuts, if they are tolerated. On Jan 13, 2005, at 2:52 PM, Mateosian wrote: > I told her I wanted to see the test results and clinical > data on L-selenomethionine, an amino-acid chelate that they > manufactured. She then said that it was not actually an amino acid > chelate but a " complex. " > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2005 Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 brazil nuts are very variable and thier high selenium levels are only there if its high in the soil they don't use the selenium but sequester it in a not very useful form only a small percentage of brazil nuts seem to be grown in high selenium areas these days............... i think the other important point about selenium is that too much is toxic if readers are interested in safe amounts i have a dual selenium protocol which in my web page 'minerals i take' in the index of http://tinyurl.com/2csa3 once on the 'minerals i take' page, just scroll down to SELENIUM PROTOCOL south dekota beef has very high levels of selenium, animal scources of minerals are much more relaible than plant sources in general because of plants protective investments in anti nutritional factors > > > I told her I wanted to see the test results and clinical > > data on L-selenomethionine, an amino-acid chelate that they > > manufactured. She then said that it was not actually an amino acid > > chelate but a " complex. " > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 and : Thanks so much for the selenium information. that article is fantastic. But of course, having learned a little more.I am now a little more confused. At the moment my " primary " interest in selenium has to do with the leaching of mercury from amalgam fillings. I understood from Dr. Boyd Haley's presentation and from a follow-up discussion/email I had with him that when SE-2 binds to HG2 it forms HgSE or mercury selinide, which is a stable compound, and non-toxic. I also understood that once this process occurs, the selenium is no longer bio-available for its other functions. In other words, in " lay " terms, the l-selenomethionine " knocks out " the active sources of mercury from the bloodstream and renders them impotent. This is not to say that l-selenomethionine chelates in the sense of removing mercury from tissue and organs, but rather simply to say it can handle the " day to day " load - say from the fillings. In addition, because the mercury binds to the selenium and the selenium is no longer bioavailable to do what it was meant to do in the body, a " toxic " person (who isn't these days?) would need more selenium than a non-toxic person. , when the article you sent states that there have been no tangible benefits from l-selenomethionine use, it also states as a caveat " except for a few published studies that indicate a small decline in mercury levels for a dose as low as 100 mcg daily. " This is precisely what I am most interested in right now - and what my conversation with Boyd Haley led me to believe would be the case - ie that selenium in the blood stream meets mercury in the blood stream (ie the " new " sources of mercury - not the ones that have been hanging around in tissues and organs) and, to use totally unscientific language, knocks them out. So again - now I am even more confused than I was before. And I suppose now I need to figure out whether the Solgar seleno-6 I use (selenomethionine) is an Albion manufactured product.and whether I should be pursuing the selenocysteine product you both mentioned. Any further clarity would be much appreciated! Josie Re: Josie /Selenium Josie, This is information from a New Year's Eve post from another list by the brilliant Hans Raible which extensively quotes Mark Konlee. It's long but useful but easy to read. Have you ever noticed that the people who really know their stuff are the best teachers? HTH, Mark Konlee has done a lot of hands-on research, and here is what he has to say on " Selenomethionine " . The best comes at the end. ************************ ************************ " L-Selenomethionine (made in a laboratory) is dropped from our list of recommended supplements. Mark Konlee (July, 2002, monthly report) The issue of what kind of selenium compound is safe and effective, in helping to restore immune function, has been an open question for several years. In this issue, I believe we are making some real progress toward resolving this outstanding question. Since beginning this series of articles on selenium, in September of 2001, I have consistently recommended food sources of selenium, especially Brazil Nuts, along with selenium bound to either Methionine or Cysteine, and to avoid sodium selenite, because of toxicity issues. With this month's report, we are no longer recommending L seleno-methionine (laboratory made) as a source of selenium, because of reported side effects and the absence of any noticeable benefits. Yes, we have changed our mind about this manufactured source of selenium. L-selenomethionine (SeM), as an amino acid chelate, is the most widely sold source of selenium available in health food stores, the other being sodium selenite. SeM is made in a laboratory under methods that try to bond selenium to the amino acid L-methionine. Albion is a manufacturer of L-selenomethionine and other amino acid chelates, and wholesales its products to dietary supplement manufacturers. With daily usage of L-selenomethionine as high as 1800 mcg over a period of several weeks and months, there is no evidence that fungal and staph infections are decreasing, no evidence that white blood cell counts or CD4 counts are increasing, and no evidence of other tangible benefits, except for a few published studies that indicate a small decline in mercury levels for a dose as low as 100 mcg daily. In contrast, the use of Brazil Nuts, the world's richest natural source of selenium, or supplements made from high selenium mustard greens (Ecological Formulas or Bio-Active Selenium by Solaray) or broccoli as in " Activated Selenium " by Jarrow Formulas, we are getting reports of increasing WBC and CD4 counts, the disappearance of fungal and staph infections, greater energy and well being, and in one case reported in this issue, an end to chronic fatigue syndrome. Most of these results are occurring very rapidly - often within the first week of use. However, in five cases, where the Albion source of seleno-methionine was consumed in high daily doses, ranging from 1200 to 1600 mcg, there are no beneficial results to report. Two of the cases were CFIDS related and 3 HIV related, with two of the three HIV+ persons also using drug cocktails. Nothing in the lab results of any of these three cases indicates any increase in WBC counts, CD4 or CD8 counts, or even a decrease in the viral load. In all five cases, none of the participants used any other form of selenium, other than the synthetic L-selenomethionine that is made in a laboratory. Only one of the five persons using the Albion source of L-selenomethionine reported using foods rich in selenium, like Brazil nuts, ocean fish or seaweed nor did any of the five persons have blood serum levels of selenium tested after using the methionine bound selenium for several weeks. Adverse effects from high doses of " L-selenomethionine " Granted that the usual dosage range of methionine bound selenium is 100 to 400 mcg daily, and side effects are quite unlikely to show up at these low levels; yet if this compound is not what the body wants, it should not be used in any amount. One reader with CFIDS took 1600 mcg daily of L-selenomethionine for several weeks and then had a numbing sensation on the right side of his body. He stopped using the selenium and fully recovered in a few days. After contacting me with this report, I initially was not convinced that the methionine bound selenium had anything to do with his symptoms, but suggested he switch to a food source of selenium and start with a low dose, 200 to 400 mcg daily, and gradually increase it. I also suggested he have his blood serum levels tested for selenium before starting on any new supplement. A second person using just 800 mcg daily of L selenomethionine noticed pain in the kidney area and stopped using it. Note: Alternatives to L selenomethionine are high selenium yeast (Selenomax - available from Source Naturals), high selenium broccoli (Activated Selenium by Jarrow Formulas), high selenium mustard greens (Bio-Active Selenium by Solaray or Selenium Cruciferate by Ecological Formulas). Solaray also sells other forms of selenium, so read labels carefully to avoid buying the wrong stuff. At this juncture, I am of the opinion that the Brazil nuts, high selenium mustard greens and broccoli, plus the high-selenium yeast, are the safest and most efficacious of all the selenium supplements. With high doses of selenomethionine, persons have also reported lung congestion, dermatitis and other skin conditions. Simon and Vale both reported adverse side effects from high doses of sodium selenite and selenomethionine. In an email from Simon in the UK, he said that at 1000 mcg daily of sodium selenite, his hair started falling out, but this stopped when he reduced the dose to 500 mcg daily. With equally high doses of selenomethionine, he reported big flare-ups of dermatitis. Both Vale and Simon reported the symptoms going away in a few days after stopping these selenium supplements. Another person, Del, also reported problems with high doses of selenomethionine. No one has reported any benefits. All the reports of adverse effects are coming from the synthetic or laboratory made L-selenomethionine (amino acid chelates) and not from any known natural plant source of seleno methionine. The problem may be defects in the product, resulting from flaws in the manufacturing process. Message Board reports several reports on experiences, both good and bad, of using various types of selenium can be read on the Message Board at our website (www.keephope.net). Here is one of them: [.....] July 5th, 2002. " Within the past few weeks I have reached a conclusion that there is a problem with L selenomethionine. Two HIV + and two persons with immune problems not HIV related used high doses of selenomethionine with no apparent good results. They used the amino acid chelate, Albion brand. No resolution of symptoms was reported by any of these 4 cases and no increases in T cell counts or white blood cells. On the contrary, concerning Jarrow Formulas " Activated Selenium " that has selenocysteine plus methionine also includes Vit. E, Riboflavin, broccoli and garlic - I have had two good reports from persons with long standing candidiasis). Both reported significant improvements in resolving candida infections after a week or two. The dose was around 900 mcg daily or 9 capsules a day. I was aware that Ecological Formulas had a mustard green source of selenium that had 200 mcg per capsule. Your source with Solaray sounds like the same thing at half the cost. Right now, I am taking 2 Activated Selenium by Jarrow Formulas with one Selenium Cruciferate by Ecological Formulas but will probably go with the Solaray brand in place of Ecological Formulas later on. I do this once or twice a day. I personally like this combination. Maybe it is time to send L selenomethionine down the pike, after the disappointing results of these 4 cases, and now the side effects that several of you have reported on this message board. Take Care. " Mark Konlee Good reports on Brazil nuts Kansas City, KS. Al, who has Gulf War Syndrome, reports very good results with eating about 10 Brazil nuts daily as his main source of selenium for the past 6 months although he also eats ocean fish 5 times a week. He reports his selenium blood serum levels are 240 mcg/l in a reference range that goes from 60 to 160. Note: Our goal is to increase the blood serum selenium levels to 300 to 600 mcg/l. Our normal reference range for selenium in blood serum is from 150 to 300 mcg/l. For now, we are disregarding the various low reference ranges given by different testing labs. Al reports that after consuming about 10 Brazil nuts daily for the past several months, his white blood count has increased from 3.1 to 4.3. Significantly, a chronic staph infection that he has had in his thumb for the past several years has completely healed. Previously, there was a flare-up of the infection with pus every 2 or 3 months. Several prescriptions of antibiotics failed to permanently eradicate the infection during the past 5 years. Al reports his thumb is now totally healed, he has no fungal or yeast infections, and feels basically normal. [...] Update: September, 2002: We now have 14 cases, where " Selenium " dietary supplements claiming to contain L-selenomethionine, have failed to provide any benefits, with half the persons using it reporting adverse side effects. One source told us that to sell selenium for under $2 a bottle, manufacturers have resorted to using the cheapest raw materials they can find and mixing in inorganic selenium and water and then spray drying it. No wonder these " amino acid chelates " are not working because they really are not what they claim to be - amino acid chelates. The real amino acid chelates are produced by nature and found only in plants. The synthesized versions made in labs are not only ineffective, they are not safe to use. Unfortunately, the vitamin discount houses are peddling this junk to the public on television and on the Internet, and telling people how much money they are saving. Saving money they are, but getting a selenium supplement that is safe and effective they are not. So far, two persons, who have used man-made L-selenomethionine, have had transitory strokes. These serious side effects occurred with doses ranging from 900 to 1600 mcg daily. Fortunately, both have recovered completely and are now using plant-based selenium supplements with no side effects. In well over 20 recent cases, the plant based sources of selenium (Bio-Active Selenium and SelenoMax) have completely resolved many cases of long standing of candidiasis, have reduced fatigue, increased T cell counts and WBCs, restored the ability to sweat and restored pure whiteness to the whites of the eyes. Not one case of adverse effects has been reported in the past year from using plant based selenium supplements at dosages up to 1800 mcg daily. Nov 19, 2002. An Albion employee admits their selenium product is not an amino acid chelate but a " complex " I found an advertisement for Albion Amino Acid chelates in a Health Supplement Retailer magazine (Vol 8, No 12). The ad stated " Nobody talks CHELATES like Albion CHELATES " and goes on to make the following claims: " Albion's patented chelation processes form mineral compounds that have a multitude of advantages! Nutritionally functional, Kosher-Parve, Chemically Validated, CAS Registered and Clinically Proven. " I went to their website at www.albion-an.com and looked for the clinical data and test results on their selenium amino acid chelate (L-selenomethionine). There was data on iron, zinc and some of the other amino acid chelates but I could find nothing on selenium so I called them at 1-586-774-9055. A female employee answered the phone. She, herself, did not know where to find the information about selenium on the company website, but said a company technician who could help me was at a meeting. I told her I wanted to see the test results and clinical data on L-selenomethionine, an amino-acid chelate that they manufactured. She then said that it was not actually an amino acid chelate but a " complex. " She added: " For various technical reasons, we have not been able to make amino acid chelates with selenium, boron or potassium. " I said: " That is interesting. I understand that a " complex " is a mixture of an inorganic mineral with an amino acid. " She replied: " that is correct. " I was so stunned by her admission that I forgot to ask her name before I hung up the phone. In fact, one place on the Albion website they boast that they do not make proteinates or " complexes " (mixtures of inorganic minerals and amino acids) but true structural amino acid chelates. I am aware of at least one major dietary supplement manufacturer (Futurebiotics) that sells selenium as an " amino acid chelate " made by Albion labs and calls it L-selenomethionine and not what it really is - an inorganic selenium in a base of L-methionine. Right now, there are millions of bottles of selenium described as L-seleno-methionine, from numerous dietary supplement manufacturers on store shelves that are mislabeled, and therefore misbranded. Where are the safety studies? In December 2002, I even sent the company an email about the safety questions raised from the use of their product and reported on the two persons who claim it caused them to get a transitory stroke. Albion has not replied to the email message. Selenium products that are safe to use are plant-based Only selenium sources made by nature (plant based) should ever be used. These include food sources like Brazil nuts and fish. In dietary supplements, many persons report wide range benefits from " Bio-Active Selenium " by Solaray. It is greenhouse grown mustard greens that absorb and convert significant amounts of inorganic selenium to its organic form. This product is high in naturally occurring l-seleno cysteine. Another plant-based source is selenium-yeast grown in a medium that converts inorganic selenium to the natural form. Selenium yeast is naturally high in real l-selenomethionine and not a shake and bake laboratory version that is toxic. Selenomax is one of several brands of selenium yeast. Which one is more effective? In my opinion and that of several readers, the Bio-Active Selenium is more effective. At least 2 persons have reported that 400 to 600 mcg daily of Bio-Active Selenium (2 to 3 capsules daily) is sufficient to prevent outbreaks of candidiasis whereas the selenium yeast is less effective and requires higher doses. My personal choice is @ Bio-Active Selenium caps daily along with 3 or 4 Brazil Nuts. " **************************** **************************** By far the cheapest are Brazil nuts. Here, one nut will cost about 4 cents, and it contains 70 micrograms of Se on average, but some contain up to 700. We are conditioned to regard higher amounts of Se as a poison, but this does not apply to these nuts which have been eaten with great success for thousands of years. The only restraint on their consumption is weight gain. Re: Josie /Selenium Josie, The key is to use two types of selenium, l-selenomethionine and methyselenocysteine. If you use a reputable brand of l-selenomethionine it does not have the toxicity issues, but just taking l-selenomethionione alone is useless as it is not properly utilized unless you also take methylselenocysteine. I use Source Naturals yeast free l-selenomethionine and VRP brand methylselenocysteine. On Jan 13, 2005, at 10:51 AM, Josie Lecraw wrote: > > : > > > > Can you say more about why you think selenium supplementation is toxic > waste? I haven't come across this anywhere - and I do supplement > myself > with selenium per Boyd Haley's presentation (and my own follow-up > research) > that selenium binds to (active sources of) mercury (for example from my > amalgams) and renders the mercury inactive. > > > > I am also pregnant at the moment so the subject is triply important > for me. > My own search of selenium rich foods showed that most foods that are > " supposed " to be rich in selenium (except the Brazil nuts) just aren't > these > days due to the soil and to transport etc - sort of analogous to how > are > vegetables are depleted in vitamins before they reach us. > > > > If I missed something important, I would love to know more!! > Josie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 to the contrary, the more mercury/silver toxic a person is the less selenium they can tolerate the reason is that total selenium doses up to .85mcg/lb seem just to passivate but higher doses mobilise mercury so called 'chelators' do not in fact bind anything like a fraction as tightly to mercury as selenium and yet you can still have mobilisation issues with selenium which sorta explains why chelated kids never really recover despite parental claims also undertand that its the mercury/ionic silver couple in amalgams that is so much more damaging than either alone though selenium would help with silver as well........ the solgar selenomenthione is ok but not as good as the source naturals 200mcg yeast free selenomethione (cut down) you are going to need both the body is not a test tube and in the end the efficacy of supplements is only proven by trying them with attention to the effect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 Some follow-ups to this (inserted in your text) if you don't mind.. Re: Josie /Selenium to the contrary, the more mercury/silver toxic a person is the less selenium they can tolerate the reason is that total selenium doses up to .85mcg/lb seem just to passivate but higher doses mobilise mercury ---More confused/concerned than ever. If this is true and I am a pregnant 130 pounds, then I shouldn't have more than 110 mcg of the stuff per day? But how do you account for the different ways it is being utilized in the body - some to passivate the mercury, some for its other essential functions (more necessary in pregnancy from what - apparently little - I understand. I know that a number of DAN! docs are recommending selenium supplementation of more than 100 mcg for little kids - almost all of whom are mercury toxic and certainly all of whom weigh less than 130 pounds. so called 'chelators' do not in fact bind anything like a fraction as tightly to mercury as selenium and yet you can still have mobilisation issues with selenium which sorta explains why chelated kids never really recover despite parental claims --Any way to point me to some more reading here? I may still not " get it " but I understood that the selenium can only bind to the mercury that is flowing in the blood stream - not mobilize mercury that has accumulated in the tissues and organs and that this fact is precisely why one could never call selenium a " chelator " . also undertand that its the mercury/ionic silver couple in amalgams that is so much more damaging than either alone though selenium would help with silver as well........ --Yes, understood. the solgar selenomenthione is ok but not as good as the source naturals 200mcg yeast free selenomethione (cut down) --Sorry, what do you mean " cut down " - take less but use that brand?? you are going to need both ---Yet I assumed from your first paragraph that I am in danger of mobilizing the mercury by taking any at all (or any more than 100mcg according to body weight). Can you elaborate??? the body is not a test tube and in the end the efficacy of supplements is only proven by trying them with attention to the effect --Yes, of course. And if what you are referring to is Haley being a chemist and not a practitioner - by all means. His presentation was definitely not about selenium. It was a simple straight forward presentation about amalgam fillings. I approached him at the end of the conference and asked whether any particular behavior could exacerbate or minimize the effects of the fillings. He mentioned selenium and explained how it can bind. I followed up by email with some questions. He was kind enough to reply - but very appropriately told me he did not treat patients or make recommendations of any sort. As for the effect - I have been watching myself very closely for any and have been feeling phenomenal overall. Of course in the end that is not good enough for me right now/beside the point. I have another life to consider.. Thanks for engaging me on this. It's quite important to me, Josie * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 the whole thing about selenium is chemically it is a sort of 'super sulphur', it is like sulphur but more so so a little bit is good cause it takes out the heavy metals seeking sulphur too much is bad cause it substitutes for sulphur and becomes toxic itself DAN has a history of toxic applications of 'remedies' for kids starting with thier massive wipe out of a generation of autistic kids sevral years ago with high single daily dose ala......... recently i posted on abmd warning a mom about a toxically high amount of selenium (300mcg) for her very young child and ricci deleted my post so its just the usual pattern of dan doing more damage than good with flicking off things thye don't understand and parents like mooing cows standing there and applauding cuase that way they don't have to think themsleves doctors like dentists are idiots, they are technicians, the products of a useless training system that fills them with useless knowledge and only passes idiots, you have to take respsosnsilty for remedy yourself if it is to be effective......... you are over compartmentalised in your thinking about selenium being confined to the blood stream which in point of fact goes through cells to be returned in a cycle the whole problem of bad metlas is they get everywhere and the same with a good metal like selenium........... chemcially 'chelators' like ala are a myth, the bonds formed with heavy metals are not strong enough why does andy cutler ban people who point out these things on his baord like censorship on ambd they have something to hide don't be a mug, medicine and the 'detox' therapies are full of money grabbing and brutal stupidity boyd haley has done some great work on amalgams and root canals, i am having a tooth pulled rather than get a root canal. he was also instrumental in getting the iom to see that thimerosal was toxic in vaccine svery much against thier inclination and i suspect the real reason they moved ( slow as it has been) was cause he was a crediable expert witness and if they offically persisted with thimerosal they would have become too obviously liable. > Some follow-ups to this (inserted in your text) if you don't mind.. > > > > Re: Josie /Selenium > > > > > > to the contrary, the more mercury/silver toxic a person is the less > selenium they can tolerate > > the reason is that total selenium doses up to .85mcg/lb seem just to > passivate but higher doses mobilise mercury > > > > ---More confused/concerned than ever. If this is true and I am a pregnant > 130 pounds, then I shouldn't have more than 110 mcg of the stuff per day? > But how do you account for the different ways it is being utilized in the > body - some to passivate the mercury, some for its other essential functions > (more necessary in pregnancy from what - apparently little - I understand. > I know that a number of DAN! docs are recommending selenium supplementation > of more than 100 mcg for little kids - almost all of whom are mercury toxic > and certainly all of whom weigh less than 130 pounds. > > > > so called 'chelators' do not in fact bind anything like a fraction as > tightly to mercury as selenium and yet you can still have > mobilisation issues with selenium which sorta explains why chelated > kids never really recover despite parental claims > > > > --Any way to point me to some more reading here? I may still not " get it " > but I understood that the selenium can only bind to the mercury that is > flowing in the blood stream - not mobilize mercury that has accumulated in > the tissues and organs and that this fact is precisely why one could never > call selenium a " chelator " . > > > > also undertand that its the mercury/ionic silver couple in amalgams > that is so much more damaging than either alone though selenium would > help with silver as well........ > > > > --Yes, understood. > > > the solgar selenomenthione is ok but not as good as the source > naturals 200mcg yeast free selenomethione (cut down) > > > > --Sorry, what do you mean " cut down " - take less but use that brand?? > > > > you are going to need both > > > > ---Yet I assumed from your first paragraph that I am in danger of mobilizing > the mercury by taking any at all (or any more than 100mcg according to body > weight). Can you elaborate??? > > > > the body is not a test tube and in the end the efficacy of > supplements is only proven by trying them with attention to the effect > > > > --Yes, of course. And if what you are referring to is Haley being a chemist > and not a practitioner - by all means. His presentation was definitely not > about selenium. It was a simple straight forward presentation about amalgam > fillings. I approached him at the end of the conference and asked whether > any particular behavior could exacerbate or minimize the effects of the > fillings. He mentioned selenium and explained how it can bind. I followed > up by email with some questions. He was kind enough to reply - but very > appropriately told me he did not treat patients or make recommendations of > any sort. > > > > As for the effect - I have been watching myself very closely for any and > have been feeling phenomenal overall. Of course in the end that is not good > enough for me right now/beside the point. I have another life to consider.. > > > > Thanks for engaging me on this. It's quite important to me, > > Josie > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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