Re: Stopping TD-DMPS

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 18/04/2006 00:14:43 GMT Daylight Time, gkmiller@...

writes:

We just started chelation with out 3.9yo dd

>>What protocol are you using?

Mandi in UK

[Guest guest]

Keri,

The aggressive, combative behavior was our daughter's response to td-

dmps. It didn't matter whether we dosed low, every other day or 3

days of every 8 hours. A few trials of this was enough for me to stop

it and return to low dose dmsa/ala.

>

> We just started chelation with out 3.9yo dd. She is becoming worse

everyday. We have been doing bio-med for over a year...we had

everything in place. Today she has taken to hitting our 20mo ds,

kicking our dogs off furniture or if they are laying on the floor,

fighting w/us uncontrollably, yelling, screaming, doesn't answer her

name or listen to directions, wanders off, etc. She hasn't done

these things in a year +. Like I said each day since starting

chelation is worse. Today we are scared. This isn't our daughter at

all. I think this is the worse she has EVER been. Has anyone ever

just stopped? Has this ever not worked with kids...non-responders?

>

> Keri

>

>

[Guest guest]

Do you feel your child had mercury poisoning? If so, many kids go through this

hell during chelation. You write that you have been " doing bio-med for over a

year " . How long have you been chelating? According to Dr. Buttar, reactions

like your daughters is normal because you are " putting out a fire " . According

to him, many parents give up when they see this type of reaction. In one case,

a child improved after 11 months of chelation. You may want to watch his video

clip:

http://www.autismmedia.org/media4.html

Lots of luck to you.

Grant and Keri <gkmiller@...> wrote:

We just started chelation with out 3.9yo dd. She is becoming worse everyday.

We have been doing bio-med for over a year...we had everything in place. Today

she has taken to hitting our 20mo ds, kicking our dogs off furniture or if they

are laying on the floor, fighting w/us uncontrollably, yelling, screaming,

doesn't answer her name or listen to directions, wanders off, etc. She hasn't

done these things in a year +. Like I said each day since starting chelation is

worse. Today we are scared. This isn't our daughter at all. I think this is

the worse she has EVER been. Has anyone ever just stopped? Has this ever not

worked with kids...non-responders?

Keri

[Guest guest]

Abid Khan wrote:

? According to Dr. Buttar, reactions like your daughters is normal because

you are " putting out a fire " . According to him, many parents give up when they

see this type of reaction. In one case, a child improved after 11 months of

chelation.

<<<<Lots of people who used td-dmps waited for this 11 month time period and

it came and went without any improvement. Just ONE case is not enough for anyone

to hang their hat on.

The " putting out a fire " is IMHO, redistributing the metals to the brain, not

something we want to do.

We used this product and got good metal pulls with it, but we are one of the

few that I have heard about, so I am not one of those who did not get good

results, but in my experience td-dmps was not a " cure " for most kids. And

Buttar's claim that dmps has a half life of 48 hours is just ridiculous.

Lots of luck to you.

Grant and Keri <gkmiller@...> wrote:

We just started chelation with out 3.9yo dd. She is becoming worse

everyday. We have been doing bio-med for over a year...we had everything in

place. Today she has taken to hitting our 20mo ds, kicking our dogs off

furniture or if they are laying on the floor, fighting w/us uncontrollably,

yelling, screaming, doesn't answer her name or listen to directions, wanders

off, etc. She hasn't done these things in a year +. Like I said each day since

starting chelation is worse. Today we are scared. This isn't our daughter at

all. I think this is the worse she has EVER been. Has anyone ever just

stopped? Has this ever not worked with kids...non-responders?

Keri

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 18/04/2006 15:12:47 GMT Daylight Time,

jromkema@... writes:

What protocol are you using? If you're doing the every other day, stop.

Give her some good yeast protocol and then switch to the three-day cycle.

Just my opinion, FWIW.

>>>I concurr An start the frequent dosing with ONE DROP per dose

Mandi in UK

[Guest guest]

,

I don't think you understood what I wrote. Therefore I will clarify.

In reference to one child who responded to TD-DMPS after 11 months you wrote:

" Lots of people who used td-dmps waited for this 11 month time period and it

came and went without any improvement. Just ONE case is not enough for anyone to

hang their hat on. "

Agreed. No one should " hang their hat " to anything. We need to do what is

best for these kids -- period. This may mean waiting for 11 months or this may

mean trying a new protocal sooner. I think the matter is too complicated to

make quick judgements on.

In reference to " putting out a fire " you wrote:

" The " putting out a fire " is IMHO, redistributing the metals to the brain, not

something we want to do. "

Totally disagree. Try to understand what " putting out a fire " means. It

means just that -- eliminating mercury from a body -- not " redistribution of

metals " . Why would anyone do this want to redistribute metals?

I'm glad you had good results with TD-DMPS. I'm not sure of your statement

that you are " one of the few " who had good results. Many have had good results

while others did better with DMSA.

Again, I think its important to do whatever it takes to improve these kids.

Unfortunately, there is no ONE magic bullet that does it for ALL ASD kids.

ABID

Cochran <Ladyshrink111@...> wrote:

Abid Khan wrote:

? According to Dr. Buttar, reactions like your daughters is normal because

you are " putting out a fire " . According to him, many parents give up when they

see this type of reaction. In one case, a child improved after 11 months of

chelation.

<<<<Lots of people who used td-dmps waited for this 11 month time period and

it came and went without any improvement. Just ONE case is not enough for anyone

to hang their hat on.

The " putting out a fire " is IMHO, redistributing the metals to the brain, not

something we want to do.

We used this product and got good metal pulls with it, but we are one of the

few that I have heard about, so I am not one of those who did not get good

results, but in my experience td-dmps was not a " cure " for most kids. And

Buttar's claim that dmps has a half life of 48 hours is just ridiculous.

Lots of luck to you.

Grant and Keri <gkmiller@...> wrote:

We just started chelation with out 3.9yo dd. She is becoming worse

everyday. We have been doing bio-med for over a year...we had everything in

place. Today she has taken to hitting our 20mo ds, kicking our dogs off

furniture or if they are laying on the floor, fighting w/us uncontrollably,

yelling, screaming, doesn't answer her name or listen to directions, wanders

off, etc. She hasn't done these things in a year +. Like I said each day since

starting chelation is worse. Today we are scared. This isn't our daughter at

all. I think this is the worse she has EVER been. Has anyone ever just

stopped? Has this ever not worked with kids...non-responders?

Keri

[Guest guest]

I think that I do understand what " putting out a fire " means, but not agreeing

with Buttar's definition. Read some more on Buttar, he does say he is TRYING to

create redistribution.

What accounts for the " stim hell " that many people saw their kids go through

waiting for the improvements that many, many did not see when using td-dmps on

the every other day protocol?

Not a medical dr or a chemist, but the stim hell or the huge increase in

stimming that occured with people using td-dmps on an every other day protocol

told me that mercury was going to their brains.

To be clear, it is sometimes the norm to have an increase in stimming on the

chelators, but the " stim hell " was way beyond that seen with low/frequent

dosing. The words " stim hell " were invented for what people were seeing on every

other day dosing with td-dmps.

I agree with doing what causes improvement, but within some kind of safe

guidelines which I don't think includes Buttar's dosing every other day and

withholding minerals. Saying " it is important to do whatever it takes to improve

these kids " has been the rationale for drs and others who have done further

damage to their children.

We may have to agree to disagree on this, Abid, but it is my opinion. I respect

your right to an opposing opinion and to do what you feel is best for your

child. But ultimately what works and is safe does not come down to opinion, but

to real science and real kids and real consequences.

Re: [ ] Stopping TD-DMPS

,

I don't think you understood what I wrote. Therefore I will clarify.

In reference to one child who responded to TD-DMPS after 11 months you

wrote:

" Lots of people who used td-dmps waited for this 11 month time period and it

came and went without any improvement. Just ONE case is not enough for anyone to

hang their hat on. "

Agreed. No one should " hang their hat " to anything. We need to do what is

best for these kids -- period. This may mean waiting for 11 months or this may

mean trying a new protocal sooner. I think the matter is too complicated to

make quick judgements on.

In reference to " putting out a fire " you wrote:

" The " putting out a fire " is IMHO, redistributing the metals to the brain,

not something we want to do. "

Totally disagree. Try to understand what " putting out a fire " means. It

means just that -- eliminating mercury from a body -- not " redistribution of

metals " . Why would anyone do this want to redistribute metals?

I'm glad you had good results with TD-DMPS. I'm not sure of your statement

that you are " one of the few " who had good results. Many have had good results

while others did better with DMSA.

Again, I think its important to do whatever it takes to improve these kids.

Unfortunately, there is no ONE magic bullet that does it for ALL ASD kids.

ABID

Cochran <Ladyshrink111@...> wrote:

Abid Khan wrote:

? According to Dr. Buttar, reactions like your daughters is normal because

you are " putting out a fire " . According to him, many parents give up when they

see this type of reaction. In one case, a child improved after 11 months of

chelation.

<<<<Lots of people who used td-dmps waited for this 11 month time period and

it came and went without any improvement. Just ONE case is not enough for anyone

to hang their hat on.

The " putting out a fire " is IMHO, redistributing the metals to the brain,

not something we want to do.

We used this product and got good metal pulls with it, but we are one of the

few that I have heard about, so I am not one of those who did not get good

results, but in my experience td-dmps was not a " cure " for most kids. And

Buttar's claim that dmps has a half life of 48 hours is just ridiculous.

Lots of luck to you.

Grant and Keri <gkmiller@...> wrote:

We just started chelation with out 3.9yo dd. She is becoming worse

everyday. We have been doing bio-med for over a year...we had everything in

place. Today she has taken to hitting our 20mo ds, kicking our dogs off

furniture or if they are laying on the floor, fighting w/us uncontrollably,

yelling, screaming, doesn't answer her name or listen to directions, wanders

off, etc. She hasn't done these things in a year +. Like I said each day since

starting chelation is worse. Today we are scared. This isn't our daughter at

all. I think this is the worse she has EVER been. Has anyone ever just

stopped? Has this ever not worked with kids...non-responders?

Keri

[Guest guest]

What protocol are you using? If you're doing the every other day, stop.

Give her some good yeast protocol and then switch to the three-day cycle.

Just my opinion, FWIW.

Barb

[ ] Stopping TD-DMPS

> We just started chelation with out 3.9yo dd. She is becoming worse

> everyday. We have been doing bio-med for over a year...we had everything

> in place. Today she has taken to hitting our 20mo ds, kicking our dogs

> off furniture or if they are laying on the floor, fighting w/us

> uncontrollably, yelling, screaming, doesn't answer her name or listen to

> directions, wanders off, etc. She hasn't done these things in a year +.

> Like I said each day since starting chelation is worse. Today we are

> scared. This isn't our daughter at all. I think this is the worse she

> has EVER been. Has anyone ever just stopped? Has this ever not worked

> with kids...non-responders?

>

> Keri

>

>

[Guest guest]

I second Barb, sounds like she isnt' tolerating the protocol. How much does she

weigh, how often are you giving doses and how much are you giving? Many parents

have described this exactly and it is almost always is too much at a time

(chelator), yeast, or dosing that isn't every 8 hours. If that is what is

happening, changing it should resolve these issues.

jromkema <jromkema@...> wrote:

What protocol are you using? If you're doing the every other day, stop.

Give her some good yeast protocol and then switch to the three-day cycle.

Just my opinion, FWIW.

Barb

[ ] Stopping TD-DMPS

> We just started chelation with out 3.9yo dd. She is becoming worse

> everyday. We have been doing bio-med for over a year...we had everything

> in place. Today she has taken to hitting our 20mo ds, kicking our dogs

> off furniture or if they are laying on the floor, fighting w/us

> uncontrollably, yelling, screaming, doesn't answer her name or listen to

> directions, wanders off, etc. She hasn't done these things in a year +.

> Like I said each day since starting chelation is worse. Today we are

> scared. This isn't our daughter at all. I think this is the worse she

> has EVER been. Has anyone ever just stopped? Has this ever not worked

> with kids...non-responders?

>

> Keri

>

>

[Guest guest]

Abid,

I think it is important to note that Andy's protocol does not plan

for anyone going through hell. My son, who is excreting mercury,

lead, antimony, arsenic, bismuth, nickel, etc, is not going through

hell nor would I want him to.

When I still had amalgams, if I wasn't extremely careful preparing

my son's chelators, I would get a massive headache a few hours after

that job. Why? Because I would dose myself accidently by breathing

them in, and then not give myself a second dose. This headache was,

IMO, redistribution. This is what people are getting on Buttar's

protocol which does not account for half-life. The fact that it

doesn't happen to everyone would be no comfort at all to me if it

were happening to my child. The fact that Buttar has named this

occurance would also be of no comfort. If he knows it is happening,

then he should be able to figure out what is causing it and

eliminate the problem. This is what Andy has done.

It is a disservice to our children, especially those who are like my

son and cannot speak, that we would allow the myth that chelation

neccessitates suffering and regression. It doesn't, and Dr. Buttar

coming up with catchy phrases to name these problems doesn't change

that fact.

I have answered Keri on another list. They should be scared and

make changes to prevent this from occuring again. If our children

received a vax and acted like this and our doctor said, relax, it is

part of the process of becoming immune from the vax, we would

absolutely NOT believe them. We would know that something was very

wrong. I don't think we should believe Dr. Buttar, just because he

happens to be promising recovery for our children, when we see our

children suffering as Keri's child obviously is.

Best wishes,

Anita

> We just started chelation with out 3.9yo dd. She is becoming

worse everyday. We have been doing bio-med for over a year...we had

everything in place. Today she has taken to hitting our 20mo ds,

kicking our dogs off furniture or if they are laying on the floor,

fighting w/us uncontrollably, yelling, screaming, doesn't answer her

name or listen to directions, wanders off, etc. She hasn't done

these things in a year +. Like I said each day since starting

chelation is worse. Today we are scared. This isn't our daughter

at all. I think this is the worse she has EVER been. Has anyone

ever just stopped? Has this ever not worked with kids...non-

responders?

>

> Keri

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Anita,

I was always of the philosophy that with no pain there is no gain -- Based on

what you state -- Looks like I was wrong.

We are going to start chelation within a week or so and i prepared myself for

the worst. -- Perhaps the pain is not needed.

I appreciate your info.

Regards,

Anita Kugelstadt <mysuperteach@...> wrote:

Abid,

I think it is important to note that Andy's protocol does not plan

for anyone going through hell. My son, who is excreting mercury,

lead, antimony, arsenic, bismuth, nickel, etc, is not going through

hell nor would I want him to.

When I still had amalgams, if I wasn't extremely careful preparing

my son's chelators, I would get a massive headache a few hours after

that job. Why? Because I would dose myself accidently by breathing

them in, and then not give myself a second dose. This headache was,

IMO, redistribution. This is what people are getting on Buttar's

protocol which does not account for half-life. The fact that it

doesn't happen to everyone would be no comfort at all to me if it

were happening to my child. The fact that Buttar has named this

occurance would also be of no comfort. If he knows it is happening,

then he should be able to figure out what is causing it and

eliminate the problem. This is what Andy has done.

It is a disservice to our children, especially those who are like my

son and cannot speak, that we would allow the myth that chelation

neccessitates suffering and regression. It doesn't, and Dr. Buttar

coming up with catchy phrases to name these problems doesn't change

that fact.

I have answered Keri on another list. They should be scared and

make changes to prevent this from occuring again. If our children

received a vax and acted like this and our doctor said, relax, it is

part of the process of becoming immune from the vax, we would

absolutely NOT believe them. We would know that something was very

wrong. I don't think we should believe Dr. Buttar, just because he

happens to be promising recovery for our children, when we see our

children suffering as Keri's child obviously is.

Best wishes,

Anita

> We just started chelation with out 3.9yo dd. She is becoming

worse everyday. We have been doing bio-med for over a year...we had

everything in place. Today she has taken to hitting our 20mo ds,

kicking our dogs off furniture or if they are laying on the floor,

fighting w/us uncontrollably, yelling, screaming, doesn't answer her

name or listen to directions, wanders off, etc. She hasn't done

these things in a year +. Like I said each day since starting

chelation is worse. Today we are scared. This isn't our daughter

at all. I think this is the worse she has EVER been. Has anyone

ever just stopped? Has this ever not worked with kids...non-

responders?

>

> Keri

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am completely supportive of Anita. My son is doing Andy's protocol and we

have NEVER had any negative side effect. No aggressive behavior, no regression,

no anything. Yeast is always a side effect of chelation so I don't count this,

though even with this we have had little issue.

" putting out a fire " is not at all what we are doing. We are ridding our

children of toxic metals. Putting catchy phrases on things...sounds like he is

covering his butt. I really can't believe anyone does his protocol. Earlier

this year someone posted asking if anyone had recovered a child using his

protocol and there was not a single person who said yes. How many here are

being helped by Andy's method??? How about everyone using it.

Sorry to be harsh but OMG it is so difficult to hear of kids who are on this

protocol who are doing so badly. These kids have already been through so much

and because of their autism are the least likely to understand what is happening

to them. I can't imagine what their lives are like. It is really heartbreaking

when I see my son doing chelation and having not a single problem. His gains

this past year have been tremendous. He is more and more the child he was meant

to be. The worst thing that he suffers through is being half woke up and given

his supplements. He isn't in pain or not able to control his emotions and

behaviors. He is in a class with typical children and loving life.

Doctors almost destroyed my son with their vaccines. I am not about to put

blind faith in anyone anymore. Especially when that person is making a killing

selling their product and raking in fees of what was it...$800 for personal

consultations. Andy has made a whole $30 off of me when I bought his book.

When I look at different treatment options and supplements I have a specific

list of requirements. The first one being that it benefits the majority who do

it/use it and negatively affects none. It was all the negative stories that I

read that led me to Andy's protocol. I would never consider using something

that had the potential for such horrible side effects.

Enough of my opinion.

Abid Khan <a_bit_solutions@...> wrote:

Hi Anita,

I was always of the philosophy that with no pain there is no gain -- Based on

what you state -- Looks like I was wrong.

We are going to start chelation within a week or so and i prepared myself for

the worst. -- Perhaps the pain is not needed.

I appreciate your info.

Regards,

Anita Kugelstadt <mysuperteach@...> wrote:

Abid,

I think it is important to note that Andy's protocol does not plan

for anyone going through hell. My son, who is excreting mercury,

lead, antimony, arsenic, bismuth, nickel, etc, is not going through

hell nor would I want him to.

When I still had amalgams, if I wasn't extremely careful preparing

my son's chelators, I would get a massive headache a few hours after

that job. Why? Because I would dose myself accidently by breathing

them in, and then not give myself a second dose. This headache was,

IMO, redistribution. This is what people are getting on Buttar's

protocol which does not account for half-life. The fact that it

doesn't happen to everyone would be no comfort at all to me if it

were happening to my child. The fact that Buttar has named this

occurance would also be of no comfort. If he knows it is happening,

then he should be able to figure out what is causing it and

eliminate the problem. This is what Andy has done.

It is a disservice to our children, especially those who are like my

son and cannot speak, that we would allow the myth that chelation

neccessitates suffering and regression. It doesn't, and Dr. Buttar

coming up with catchy phrases to name these problems doesn't change

that fact.

I have answered Keri on another list. They should be scared and

make changes to prevent this from occuring again. If our children

received a vax and acted like this and our doctor said, relax, it is

part of the process of becoming immune from the vax, we would

absolutely NOT believe them. We would know that something was very

wrong. I don't think we should believe Dr. Buttar, just because he

happens to be promising recovery for our children, when we see our

children suffering as Keri's child obviously is.

Best wishes,

Anita

> We just started chelation with out 3.9yo dd. She is becoming

worse everyday. We have been doing bio-med for over a year...we had

everything in place. Today she has taken to hitting our 20mo ds,

kicking our dogs off furniture or if they are laying on the floor,

fighting w/us uncontrollably, yelling, screaming, doesn't answer her

name or listen to directions, wanders off, etc. She hasn't done

these things in a year +. Like I said each day since starting

chelation is worse. Today we are scared. This isn't our daughter

at all. I think this is the worse she has EVER been. Has anyone

ever just stopped? Has this ever not worked with kids...non-

responders?

>

> Keri

>

>

[Guest guest]

Abid,

With the AC protocol, if you see regression or behaviours that would

indicate pain you know that you must do something to address it.

Lower the dose? Up the yeast protocol? Up the minerals? Increase

the frequency of the dosing? Increase the antioxidants? Etc. One

of the reasons Andy recommends oral over TD is that if you do have

problems, you know it is not something in the TD causing it. His

protocol is all about being safe and as comfortable as possible

while you remove the metals.

The main discomforts with chelation for us are taking the awful

tasting supplements (my son) and losing sleep (me). Yeast can be a

problem, particularly if it causes constipation, aggressivity or

night wakings.

If you do see discomfort, you need to post about it here so that

people can help you.

By using the AC protocol, we have prepared ourselves in many ways to

AVOID the worst. I'm glad my post might have helped you see this

another way :-)

Take care,

Anita

>

> Hi Anita,

>

> I was always of the philosophy that with no pain there is no

gain -- Based on what you state -- Looks like I was wrong.

>

> We are going to start chelation within a week or so and i

prepared myself for the worst. -- Perhaps the pain is not needed.

>

> I appreciate your info.

>

> Regards,

>

>

[Guest guest]

- I just wanted to second your post. That was exactly what

caused me to choose Andy's protocol over Buttar's. WE have been

chealting wiht td-dmps for almsot 10 months with absolutely NO

regression. We started slow and I wateched my kids reactions. It

took us about 2-3 months to get to full dose, but we got there with

no regression, gains every round, and continue to see beautiful

things.

Ruth

> > We just started chelation with out 3.9yo dd. She is becoming

> worse everyday. We have been doing bio-med for over a year...we

had

> everything in place. Today she has taken to hitting our 20mo ds,

> kicking our dogs off furniture or if they are laying on the floor,

> fighting w/us uncontrollably, yelling, screaming, doesn't answer

her

> name or listen to directions, wanders off, etc. She hasn't done

> these things in a year +. Like I said each day since starting

> chelation is worse. Today we are scared. This isn't our daughter

> at all. I think this is the worse she has EVER been. Has anyone

> ever just stopped? Has this ever not worked with kids...non-

> responders?

> >

> > Keri

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Anita,

I'm reading your post about AC protocol and learning alot. I am going to go that

route with my son and I'm trying to learn from you. One of the things you said

to Abid was " One of the reasons Andy recommends oral over TD is that if you have

problems you know it's not something in the TD causing it " . Can you clarify

this? Do you mean TD never causes problems or you can't tell if it is or oral

causes the problems? Thanks,

[ ] Re: Stopping TD-DMPS

Abid,

With the AC protocol, if you see regression or behaviours that would

indicate pain you know that you must do something to address it.

Lower the dose? Up the yeast protocol? Up the minerals? Increase

the frequency of the dosing? Increase the antioxidants? Etc. One

of the reasons Andy recommends oral over TD is that if you do have

problems, you know it is not something in the TD causing it. His

protocol is all about being safe and as comfortable as possible

while you remove the metals.

The main discomforts with chelation for us are taking the awful

tasting supplements (my son) and losing sleep (me). Yeast can be a

problem, particularly if it causes constipation, aggressivity or

night wakings.

If you do see discomfort, you need to post about it here so that

people can help you.

By using the AC protocol, we have prepared ourselves in many ways to

AVOID the worst. I'm glad my post might have helped you see this

another way :-)

Take care,

Anita

>

> Hi Anita,

>

> I was always of the philosophy that with no pain there is no

gain -- Based on what you state -- Looks like I was wrong.

>

> We are going to start chelation within a week or so and i

prepared myself for the worst. -- Perhaps the pain is not needed.

>

> I appreciate your info.

>

> Regards,

>

>

=======================================================