Re: I give up.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Suzy Do you happen to know if the PDR is relevant to the

UK (assuming that you, like most, are in the USA) ? I'll try anyway

and thanks for the help.

Will update, I took the two nights of lofepramine. After the second

tablet, yesterday I not only had the symptoms I mentioned before but

a nice crop of boils YUK and a couple of scabby patches in my hair

which I USED to have on dothiepin and on Seroxat but which had gone

soon after withdrawal started. I used to lose tons of hair every day

(I think from the itchy scabby patches) at the time. So thats back.

And I don't feel one hell of a lot better LOL by having boils on my

face :}

So... last night I decided that a third night of lofepramine is not

worthwhile. Being as if I wait a couple of weeks to try to talk to

the psych again I might (given 2 days of tablets leading to illness

and visible symptoms already) end up with withdrawals. So, its back

to zopiclone and episodical diazepam until I see her. And, having

not taken a third night's lofepromine, today I have a nice swimming

head as well as the usual akathisia. How come even my college tutors

who have no medical training accept that its the withdrawal and yet

the docs who are supposed to know these things have no idea about

withdrawal and keep trying to treat a depression I DONT HAVE

Thanks again Suzy.

Love, Peas

> Dear a,

>

> Hi, this is Suzy. I don't roam around the sites too much because I

don't

> seem to have the time. But, after reading your story, I must say

> that I know that you are getting the zaps and akathisia from some

or all of

> the meds you have been taking. To help convince those who are

close to you

> and those who are supposed to be helping you, ask your library to

get you

> the PDR, Physicians Desk Reference, and the Companion PDR for 2002

(2001 if

> 2002 is not yet available) and look up all of your meds. The

descriptions

> and warnings are definite. Zerox them and you will have your proof.

>

> I know Dawn, Glitter and the others will have good advice and

support.

>

> Love,

> Suzy

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Suzy Do you happen to know if the PDR is relevant to the

UK (assuming that you, like most, are in the USA) ? I'll try anyway

and thanks for the help.

Will update, I took the two nights of lofepramine. After the second

tablet, yesterday I not only had the symptoms I mentioned before but

a nice crop of boils YUK and a couple of scabby patches in my hair

which I USED to have on dothiepin and on Seroxat but which had gone

soon after withdrawal started. I used to lose tons of hair every day

(I think from the itchy scabby patches) at the time. So thats back.

And I don't feel one hell of a lot better LOL by having boils on my

face :}

So... last night I decided that a third night of lofepramine is not

worthwhile. Being as if I wait a couple of weeks to try to talk to

the psych again I might (given 2 days of tablets leading to illness

and visible symptoms already) end up with withdrawals. So, its back

to zopiclone and episodical diazepam until I see her. And, having

not taken a third night's lofepromine, today I have a nice swimming

head as well as the usual akathisia. How come even my college tutors

who have no medical training accept that its the withdrawal and yet

the docs who are supposed to know these things have no idea about

withdrawal and keep trying to treat a depression I DONT HAVE

Thanks again Suzy.

Love, Peas

> Dear a,

>

> Hi, this is Suzy. I don't roam around the sites too much because I

don't

> seem to have the time. But, after reading your story, I must say

> that I know that you are getting the zaps and akathisia from some

or all of

> the meds you have been taking. To help convince those who are

close to you

> and those who are supposed to be helping you, ask your library to

get you

> the PDR, Physicians Desk Reference, and the Companion PDR for 2002

(2001 if

> 2002 is not yet available) and look up all of your meds. The

descriptions

> and warnings are definite. Zerox them and you will have your proof.

>

> I know Dawn, Glitter and the others will have good advice and

support.

>

> Love,

> Suzy

>

[Guest guest]

>> It's almost biblical!!!!!

Yes it is. " Job " is probably my favorite bible story and it very

much applies to these days with the drug companies playing the role

of the devil. I hope we find the God inside each of us and end the

pain we suffer.

[Guest guest]

>> It's almost biblical!!!!!

Yes it is. " Job " is probably my favorite bible story and it very

much applies to these days with the drug companies playing the role

of the devil. I hope we find the God inside each of us and end the

pain we suffer.

[Guest guest]

Dear a,

Your boils are an allergic reaction. Please be very careful about what you

are taking. I will ask if the PDR is relevant in the UK. But, I think it

should be.

Suzy

>From: " peasmoon " <paula.g@...>

>Reply-SSRI medications

>SSRI medications

>Subject: Re: I give up.

>Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 20:20:32 -0000

>

>Thanks Suzy Do you happen to know if the PDR is relevant to the

>UK (assuming that you, like most, are in the USA) ? I'll try anyway

>and thanks for the help.

>Will update, I took the two nights of lofepramine. After the second

>tablet, yesterday I not only had the symptoms I mentioned before but

>a nice crop of boils YUK and a couple of scabby patches in my hair

>which I USED to have on dothiepin and on Seroxat but which had gone

>soon after withdrawal started. I used to lose tons of hair every day

>(I think from the itchy scabby patches) at the time. So thats back.

>And I don't feel one hell of a lot better LOL by having boils on my

>face :}

>

>So... last night I decided that a third night of lofepramine is not

>worthwhile. Being as if I wait a couple of weeks to try to talk to

>the psych again I might (given 2 days of tablets leading to illness

>and visible symptoms already) end up with withdrawals. So, its back

>to zopiclone and episodical diazepam until I see her. And, having

>not taken a third night's lofepromine, today I have a nice swimming

>head as well as the usual akathisia. How come even my college tutors

>who have no medical training accept that its the withdrawal and yet

>the docs who are supposed to know these things have no idea about

>withdrawal and keep trying to treat a depression I DONT HAVE

>

>Thanks again Suzy.

>Love, Peas

>

>

>

> > Dear a,

> >

> > Hi, this is Suzy. I don't roam around the sites too much because I

>don't

> > seem to have the time. But, after reading your story, I must say

> > that I know that you are getting the zaps and akathisia from some

>or all of

> > the meds you have been taking. To help convince those who are

>close to you

> > and those who are supposed to be helping you, ask your library to

>get you

> > the PDR, Physicians Desk Reference, and the Companion PDR for 2002

>(2001 if

> > 2002 is not yet available) and look up all of your meds. The

>descriptions

> > and warnings are definite. Zerox them and you will have your proof.

> >

> > I know Dawn, Glitter and the others will have good advice and

>support.

> >

> > Love,

> > Suzy

> >

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Dear a,

Your boils are an allergic reaction. Please be very careful about what you

are taking. I will ask if the PDR is relevant in the UK. But, I think it

should be.

Suzy

>From: " peasmoon " <paula.g@...>

>Reply-SSRI medications

>SSRI medications

>Subject: Re: I give up.

>Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 20:20:32 -0000

>

>Thanks Suzy Do you happen to know if the PDR is relevant to the

>UK (assuming that you, like most, are in the USA) ? I'll try anyway

>and thanks for the help.

>Will update, I took the two nights of lofepramine. After the second

>tablet, yesterday I not only had the symptoms I mentioned before but

>a nice crop of boils YUK and a couple of scabby patches in my hair

>which I USED to have on dothiepin and on Seroxat but which had gone

>soon after withdrawal started. I used to lose tons of hair every day

>(I think from the itchy scabby patches) at the time. So thats back.

>And I don't feel one hell of a lot better LOL by having boils on my

>face :}

>

>So... last night I decided that a third night of lofepramine is not

>worthwhile. Being as if I wait a couple of weeks to try to talk to

>the psych again I might (given 2 days of tablets leading to illness

>and visible symptoms already) end up with withdrawals. So, its back

>to zopiclone and episodical diazepam until I see her. And, having

>not taken a third night's lofepromine, today I have a nice swimming

>head as well as the usual akathisia. How come even my college tutors

>who have no medical training accept that its the withdrawal and yet

>the docs who are supposed to know these things have no idea about

>withdrawal and keep trying to treat a depression I DONT HAVE

>

>Thanks again Suzy.

>Love, Peas

>

>

>

> > Dear a,

> >

> > Hi, this is Suzy. I don't roam around the sites too much because I

>don't

> > seem to have the time. But, after reading your story, I must say

> > that I know that you are getting the zaps and akathisia from some

>or all of

> > the meds you have been taking. To help convince those who are

>close to you

> > and those who are supposed to be helping you, ask your library to

>get you

> > the PDR, Physicians Desk Reference, and the Companion PDR for 2002

>(2001 if

> > 2002 is not yet available) and look up all of your meds. The

>descriptions

> > and warnings are definite. Zerox them and you will have your proof.

> >

> > I know Dawn, Glitter and the others will have good advice and

>support.

> >

> > Love,

> > Suzy

> >

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Read Ephesians 6:12

>From: " shdd2 " <shdd2@...>

>Reply-SSRI medications

>SSRI medications

>Subject: Re: I give up.

>Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 17:05:35 -0000

>

> >> It's almost biblical!!!!!

>

>Yes it is. " Job " is probably my favorite bible story and it very

>much applies to these days with the drug companies playing the role

>of the devil. I hope we find the God inside each of us and end the

>pain we suffer.

>

_________________________________________________________________

Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Read Ephesians 6:12

>From: " shdd2 " <shdd2@...>

>Reply-SSRI medications

>SSRI medications

>Subject: Re: I give up.

>Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 17:05:35 -0000

>

> >> It's almost biblical!!!!!

>

>Yes it is. " Job " is probably my favorite bible story and it very

>much applies to these days with the drug companies playing the role

>of the devil. I hope we find the God inside each of us and end the

>pain we suffer.

>

_________________________________________________________________

Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Ephesians 6:12

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against

principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of

this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Amen. I like it. I heard the following quote of Malcolm X a couple

days ago I found inspirational.

We declare our right on this earth to be a human being, to be

respected as a human being, to be given the rights of a human being

in this society, on this earth, in this day, which we intend to bring

into existence by any mean necessary.

> Read Ephesians 6:12

>

>

> >From: " shdd2 " <shdd2@y...>

> >Reply-SSRI medications@y...

> >SSRI medications@y...

> >Subject: Re: I give up.

> >Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 17:05:35 -0000

> >

> > >> It's almost biblical!!!!!

> >

> >Yes it is. " Job " is probably my favorite bible story and it very

> >much applies to these days with the drug companies playing the role

> >of the devil. I hope we find the God inside each of us and end the

> >pain we suffer.

> >

>

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:

http://mobile.msn.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/16/02 11:51:01 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

shdd2@... writes:

> Amen. I like it. I heard the following quote of Malcolm X a couple

> days ago I found inspirational.

>

> And look what happened to Malcolm???????

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Steve.

Yes, they are both worth memorizing, don't you think?

~The Avenging Angel

>From: " shdd2 " <shdd2@...>

>Reply-SSRI medications

>SSRI medications

>Subject: Re: I give up.

>Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:50:24 -0000

>

>Ephesians 6:12

>For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against

>principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of

>this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

>

>Amen. I like it. I heard the following quote of Malcolm X a couple

>days ago I found inspirational.

>

>We declare our right on this earth to be a human being, to be

>respected as a human being, to be given the rights of a human being

>in this society, on this earth, in this day, which we intend to bring

>into existence by any mean necessary.

>

>

>

> > Read Ephesians 6:12

> >

> >

> > >From: " shdd2 " <shdd2@y...>

> > >Reply-SSRI medications@y...

> > >SSRI medications@y...

> > >Subject: Re: I give up.

> > >Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 17:05:35 -0000

> > >

> > > >> It's almost biblical!!!!!

> > >

> > >Yes it is. " Job " is probably my favorite bible story and it very

> > >much applies to these days with the drug companies playing the role

> > >of the devil. I hope we find the God inside each of us and end the

> > >pain we suffer.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:

>http://mobile.msn.com

>

_________________________________________________________________

Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

[Guest guest]

I hear ya Glitter. Seems like the real heros and heroins have the

toughest times in the US. Some things are worth fighting and dying

for. As Albert Camus once said " I'd rather die on my feet than live

on my knees. "

> In a message dated 7/16/02 11:51:01 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

> shdd2@y... writes:

>

>

> > Amen. I like it. I heard the following quote of Malcolm X a

couple

> > days ago I found inspirational.

> >

> > And look what happened to Malcolm???????

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/18/02 12:08:09 AM Mountain Daylight Time,

shdd2@... writes:

> As Albert Camus once said " I'd rather die on my feet than live

> on my knees. "

>

> It was Albert who said that???? I'd always wondered. Poor Albert, he

> never really rolled that rock up the hill and met his death head-on with a

> tree. Sigh.

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/18/02 12:08:09 AM Mountain Daylight Time,

shdd2@... writes:

> As Albert Camus once said " I'd rather die on my feet than live

> on my knees. "

>

> It was Albert who said that???? I'd always wondered. Poor Albert, he

> never really rolled that rock up the hill and met his death head-on with a

> tree. Sigh.

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/18/02 1:23:22 AM Mountain Daylight Time, csoehl@...

writes:

> A sensation of electric shock traveling down the spine when the head

> and neck are moved is one of the classic signs of multiple sclerosis

> -- try looking up L'Hermittes Sign in a medical dictionary.

>

> We all know this. And many many people have gone to their doctors and

> complained of this electrical sensation only to be given a battery of tests

> for MS, but NOTHING EVER SHOWS UP! Not on brain scans, blood work, MRIs,

> etc. This symptoms is CAUSED by the drug, but it is NOT MS. My question

> is WHAT KIND OF DRUG MIMICS SYMPTOMS OF THIS DISEASE??? Gotta be some

> horrible poison!!!

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/18/02 1:23:22 AM Mountain Daylight Time, csoehl@...

writes:

> A sensation of electric shock traveling down the spine when the head

> and neck are moved is one of the classic signs of multiple sclerosis

> -- try looking up L'Hermittes Sign in a medical dictionary.

>

> We all know this. And many many people have gone to their doctors and

> complained of this electrical sensation only to be given a battery of tests

> for MS, but NOTHING EVER SHOWS UP! Not on brain scans, blood work, MRIs,

> etc. This symptoms is CAUSED by the drug, but it is NOT MS. My question

> is WHAT KIND OF DRUG MIMICS SYMPTOMS OF THIS DISEASE??? Gotta be some

> horrible poison!!!

>

[Guest guest]

I didn't know Albert died that way. I just found out the French

government chopped down the trees on the road after another

motorcyclist ran into a tree declaring them a public danger. As

Albert Camus also said " Don't wait for the absurd to happen. It

happens everyday. "

Biker Chainsaw Gang Avenges Albert Camus

The rural highways of France are lined with innumerable graceful

plane trees, which give shade to travellers but regularly claim the

lives of errant motorists. In 1960 one of them killed the

existentialist philosopher and novelist Albert Camus, who was a

passenger in a Facel-Vega HK500 travelling to Paris when it collided

with plane tree on the RN5. After the recent death of a motorcyclist

who hit a plane tree, biking enthusiasts used chainsaws to

unilaterally remove 99 neighbouring trees. In an apparent response

the French Minister of Agriculture has now decreed, controversially,

that all plane trees lining such routes should be axed since

they " amount to a public danger " .

> In a message dated 7/18/02 12:08:09 AM Mountain Daylight Time,

> shdd2@y... writes:

>

>

> > As Albert Camus once said " I'd rather die on my feet than live

> > on my knees. "

> >

> > It was Albert who said that???? I'd always wondered. Poor

Albert, he

> > never really rolled that rock up the hill and met his death head-

on with a

> > tree. Sigh.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/10/2003 1:01:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,

order@... writes:

Yesterday, I was informed that Elias (age 5 and 9 mos) would not be allowed

to participate in the holiday program at school because of his erratic

tantrums and " not knowing if he would tantrum on stage in front of

everyone. " I had a showdown with the administrator who made this decision,

who had NEVER EVEN SEEN HIS I.E.P. She also explained that the reason that

the next step for Elias's outbursts would be to suspend him for 2 or 3 days

is because that's the policy for kids who hurt other kids.

Not allowing him to be part of the program is discriminatory. I would read

up on the Americans with disability act.

Think about it logically - a kid with diabetes for example, " might " have a

diabetic seizure during the program so perhaps they should exclude all kids with

diabetes (or diabetic tendancies, can't be too careful!) A kid in a

wheelchair " might " roll it into the kid ahead of him causing a commotion (heaven

forbid!) and we should exclude those kids too.

They cannot exclude a child with a disability like that - and then say it's

because he " might " do something negative.

In addition to that, the fact that they can make predictions about his

actions proves that they have plenty of time to make proper accommodations in

advance to avoid the problems to begin with. To me, it shows that they have

plenty

of time and opportunity to work on a positive behavior plan but instead, they

choose not to do so.

I'm so sorry they did this to you guys. I wish I knew how to change " the

system. " It sometimes feels like we have to reinvent the wheel for each kid.

Any chance you can move to a better school system?

Roxanna ö¿ö

Autism happens...

[Guest guest]

Sorry to hear you are having such bad luck. Hopefully everything will work out.

You will be in my prayers.

( ) I give up.

Yesterday, I was informed that Elias (age 5 and 9 mos) would not be allowed

to participate in the holiday program at school because of his erratic

tantrums and " not knowing if he would tantrum on stage in front of

everyone. " I had a showdown with the administrator who made this decision,

who had NEVER EVEN SEEN HIS I.E.P. She also explained that the reason that

the next step for Elias's outbursts would be to suspend him for 2 or 3 days

is because that's the policy for kids who hurt other kids. We had the same

conversation about 5 times in a 20 minute time span. I said repeatedly that

exceptions are made for exceptional students, that punitive suspensions for

a 5yo child who can't even understand the concept of consequences were

completely inappropriate, and that it was their fault he was acting out so

much because they'd refused to listen to me from the get go when I told them

*five months ago* that he'd be bored silly in a mainstream kindergarten and

that he needed some support with transitions. I agreed to it (with much

trepidation) because I was told that it was to see how he'd do with a

minimum of support to add on as they went along and increase his support as

necessary instead of just sticking him in a totally self contained classroom

full of nonverbal Down Syndrome children like they did the LAST time we

tried public schools. That, too, was a disaster.

Anyway, my little boy is so hurt and devastated that he didn't get to sing

his Rudolph The Rednosed Reindeer song today He practiced and practiced

that holiday routine at home and was so excited about it. I KNOW he

wouldn't have tantrumed. Supposedly he kicked another student during the

last rehearsal, which was " the last straw, " and he wasn't allowed to

rehearse yesterday. They lied to him and took him to the computer lab and

let him play there for an hour. Of course he comes home saying the other

kids tease, hit, pinch and hurt him, but when he shoves back, it's " Ohhhh

it's the autistic problem child again, let's all fixate on him! " It should

be noted that in his " gifted " class where he's doing advanced first grade

work, and not the kindergarten busywork BS they're forcing him to do every

day in his mainstream class, he has almost zero outbursts. (He also had very

few outbursts while I homeschooled him last year.) And they've been aware

that his main problem is transitions this whole time. In otherwords, they

KNOW what the problem is with the setting he's at, and he's only been in

their system for 3 1/2 months and they've not adjusted a single solitary

thing and seem to have thrown the IEP entirely out the window, yet they're

still placing the burden of responsibility on an autistic 5 year old's

shoulders.

I am not willing to do this to him over and over. These people are supposed

to be the best school for children with Asperger's - in fact, it's pretty

much his only placement option right now. They've just confirmed all my

worst fears. He hasn't learned a thing since he started school, and his

behavior has just gotten worse and worse with every passing day. The admin

yesterday kept trying to look sympathetic and saying " I understand. I am

validating your concerns here. " I finally snapped that I didn't care about

her validation or understanding, and that I found her repeatedly trying to

pacify me by saying that to be patronizing, and that I just wanted her to DO

SOMETHING. She wasn't happy with that, but I don't care.

He's home with me right now, and I don't think he's going back. I think I'm

just going to let him chill out over Christmas break and just start

homeschooling him again.

[Guest guest]

, I don't want to disagree with you, but the main point is that they

can't have a child at school striking out physically and hurting the other

kids. There is zero tolerance here for that as there is in most other

educational systems.

Elias's placement and not following his IEP may well be the problem, and you

will be getting to that, but for the meanwhile they are just protecting the

other kids. Every child has a right to an education in a place where they

are not injured. If he is kicking other kids, well, I've got to tell you

that if one of mine got kicked, by ANYONE, I'd be the first to call up the

principal and ask why that child is still in school.

Please call the school and ask them if they are now done waiting to " see how

he'd do " and if they are now ready to provide supports in the classroom and

follow his IEP. If he isn't having outbursts elsewhere you can use this as a

strong point to demonstrate that this is not an " ingrained " behaviour, but a

result of something not right in the classroom.

We learned to use the A-B-C's of behaviour.

Antecedent - Behaviour - Natural and Logical Consequence.

What is the antecedent to his behaviour? That's what needs to be fixed. He

needs to be set up for success so that consequences are a thing of the past.

If it's noise, deal with that. Kids touching him, deal with that. Changes in

routine, deal with that. Etc. Boring busywork, well, he's in the wrong

placement.

Hope you can read this in the spirit that it was written. And by the way if

another child touches yours, you have a right to complain about that, too.

Perhaps he can't handle being touched. School needs to accommodate that.

had the same problem. He would shove with the strength of ten when

touched. We moved so that he could attend a much smaller school with lots of

vigilant and caring staff on hand. Smaller playground, less crowding on the

stairs. Zero tolerance, lots of work on bullying and social skills. It

worked wonders.

BTW if he is home under suspension, please make sure he does plenty of

learning while there, and lots more of it than he would when at school. If

you make it fun for him with TV and video games, of course he will want to

be suspended.

Grandparents thought I was mean, but when I had a child home sick, they

would stay IN THEIR BED until noon, eat a bland lunch, and be allowed to sit

in the livingroom until school was over with a puzzle, or a game, or reading

a book. No TV until school was done. In this way, I was sure that the sick

child was really sick. used to pretend sick, so this became

necessary. Now, they are never sick, because they know that even as

teenagers I will enforce this rule. If they are truly sick, they will want

to be in their beds!

I guess I'm getting at not making a suspension fun. You don't want Elias to

figure he'll get out of a few days at school and have fun time at home

instead if he hits another kid. At his tender age, he may have a difficult

time understanding the concept of hitting not being OK.

Enough for now.

/ 4makelas@...

Way, Way Up in Northern Ontario

----- Original Message -----

From: <order@...>

> Yesterday, I was informed that Elias (age 5 and 9 mos) would not be

allowed

> to participate in the holiday program at school because of his erratic

> tantrums and " not knowing if he would tantrum on stage in front of

> everyone. " I had a showdown with the administrator who made this

decision,

> who had NEVER EVEN SEEN HIS I.E.P. She also explained that the reason

that

> the next step for Elias's outbursts would be to suspend him for 2 or 3

days

> is because that's the policy for kids who hurt other kids.

[Guest guest]

It is so hard sometimes getting the schools to do what is right. Maybe you

could hold an emergency IEP meeting and discuss getting a behavioral plan and

the class set up for him so he isn't haven't tantrums as much. Also, be careful

now that he is enrolled in school that if you have him stay at home you may need

to say he isn't feeling well to avoid truancy. I don't know if different states

differ etc. Good luck! It sounds really frustrating!

Johanna

order@... wrote:

Yesterday, I was informed that Elias (age 5 and 9 mos) would not be allowed

to participate in the holiday program at school because of his erratic

tantrums and " not knowing if he would tantrum on stage in front of

everyone. " I had a showdown with the administrator who made this decision,

who had NEVER EVEN SEEN HIS I.E.P. She also explained that the reason that

the next step for Elias's outbursts would be to suspend him for 2 or 3 days

is because that's the policy for kids who hurt other kids. We had the same

conversation about 5 times in a 20 minute time span. I said repeatedly that

exceptions are made for exceptional students, that punitive suspensions for

a 5yo child who can't even understand the concept of consequences were

completely inappropriate, and that it was their fault he was acting out so

much because they'd refused to listen to me from the get go when I told them

*five months ago* that he'd be bored silly in a mainstream kindergarten and

that he needed some support with transitions. I agreed to it (with much

trepidation) because I was told that it was to see how he'd do with a

minimum of support to add on as they went along and increase his support as

necessary instead of just sticking him in a totally self contained classroom

full of nonverbal Down Syndrome children like they did the LAST time we

tried public schools. That, too, was a disaster.

Anyway, my little boy is so hurt and devastated that he didn't get to sing

his Rudolph The Rednosed Reindeer song today He practiced and practiced

that holiday routine at home and was so excited about it. I KNOW he

wouldn't have tantrumed. Supposedly he kicked another student during the

last rehearsal, which was " the last straw, " and he wasn't allowed to

rehearse yesterday. They lied to him and took him to the computer lab and

let him play there for an hour. Of course he comes home saying the other

kids tease, hit, pinch and hurt him, but when he shoves back, it's " Ohhhh

it's the autistic problem child again, let's all fixate on him! " It should

be noted that in his " gifted " class where he's doing advanced first grade

work, and not the kindergarten busywork BS they're forcing him to do every

day in his mainstream class, he has almost zero outbursts. (He also had very

few outbursts while I homeschooled him last year.) And they've been aware

that his main problem is transitions this whole time. In otherwords, they

KNOW what the problem is with the setting he's at, and he's only been in

their system for 3 1/2 months and they've not adjusted a single solitary

thing and seem to have thrown the IEP entirely out the window, yet they're

still placing the burden of responsibility on an autistic 5 year old's

shoulders.

I am not willing to do this to him over and over. These people are supposed

to be the best school for children with Asperger's - in fact, it's pretty

much his only placement option right now. They've just confirmed all my

worst fears. He hasn't learned a thing since he started school, and his

behavior has just gotten worse and worse with every passing day. The admin

yesterday kept trying to look sympathetic and saying " I understand. I am

validating your concerns here. " I finally snapped that I didn't care about

her validation or understanding, and that I found her repeatedly trying to

pacify me by saying that to be patronizing, and that I just wanted her to DO

SOMETHING. She wasn't happy with that, but I don't care.

He's home with me right now, and I don't think he's going back. I think I'm

just going to let him chill out over Christmas break and just start

homeschooling him again.

[Guest guest]

Just to let y'all know, I used to have the e-mail address andrea@...

but changed it. It wasn't like a complete stranger posting this to the group

out of the blue. =)

L.

( ) I give up.

Yesterday, I was informed that Elias (age 5 and 9 mos) would not be allowed

to participate in the holiday program at school because of his erratic

tantrums and " not knowing if he would tantrum on stage in front of

everyone. " I had a showdown with the administrator who made this decision,

who had NEVER EVEN SEEN HIS I.E.P. She also explained that the reason that

the next step for Elias's outbursts would be to suspend him for 2 or 3 days

is because that's the policy for kids who hurt other kids. We had the same

conversation about 5 times in a 20 minute time span. I said repeatedly that

exceptions are made for exceptional students, that punitive suspensions for

a 5yo child who can't even understand the concept of consequences were

completely inappropriate, and that it was their fault he was acting out so

much because they'd refused to listen to me from the get go when I told them

*five months ago* that he'd be bored silly in a mainstream kindergarten and

that he needed some support with transitions. I agreed to it (with much

trepidation) because I was told that it was to see how he'd do with a

minimum of support to add on as they went along and increase his support as

necessary instead of just sticking him in a totally self contained classroom

full of nonverbal Down Syndrome children like they did the LAST time we

tried public schools. That, too, was a disaster.

Anyway, my little boy is so hurt and devastated that he didn't get to sing

his Rudolph The Rednosed Reindeer song today He practiced and practiced

that holiday routine at home and was so excited about it. I KNOW he

wouldn't have tantrumed. Supposedly he kicked another student during the

last rehearsal, which was " the last straw, " and he wasn't allowed to

rehearse yesterday. They lied to him and took him to the computer lab and

let him play there for an hour. Of course he comes home saying the other

kids tease, hit, pinch and hurt him, but when he shoves back, it's " Ohhhh

it's the autistic problem child again, let's all fixate on him! " It should

be noted that in his " gifted " class where he's doing advanced first grade

work, and not the kindergarten busywork BS they're forcing him to do every

day in his mainstream class, he has almost zero outbursts. (He also had very

few outbursts while I homeschooled him last year.) And they've been aware

that his main problem is transitions this whole time. In otherwords, they

KNOW what the problem is with the setting he's at, and he's only been in

their system for 3 1/2 months and they've not adjusted a single solitary

thing and seem to have thrown the IEP entirely out the window, yet they're

still placing the burden of responsibility on an autistic 5 year old's

shoulders.

I am not willing to do this to him over and over. These people are supposed

to be the best school for children with Asperger's - in fact, it's pretty

much his only placement option right now. They've just confirmed all my

worst fears. He hasn't learned a thing since he started school, and his

behavior has just gotten worse and worse with every passing day. The admin

yesterday kept trying to look sympathetic and saying " I understand. I am

validating your concerns here. " I finally snapped that I didn't care about

her validation or understanding, and that I found her repeatedly trying to

pacify me by saying that to be patronizing, and that I just wanted her to DO

SOMETHING. She wasn't happy with that, but I don't care.

He's home with me right now, and I don't think he's going back. I think I'm

just going to let him chill out over Christmas break and just start

homeschooling him again.

[Guest guest]

>> , I don't want to disagree with you, but the main point is that they

can't have a child at school striking out physically and hurting the other

kids. There is zero tolerance here for that as there is in most other

educational systems.<<

The point is that I suspect he's usually being provoked and hurt by the other

kids FIRST, because I have NEVER seen him lash out at anyone without any

provocation whatsoever, but they aren't doing anything about it no matter how

many letters I fax, and yes, I'm calling them every day. The teacher has

outright told me and him that she doesn't believe " half " the things he tells her

(and the problem is that it's compounded by the fact that sometimes he DOES make

up stories, but I've seen the pencil marks and the pinch-bruises on his arm that

couldn't have been self-inflicted). He was getting really anxious about going

to school until he finally told me that some kid was kicking him under the table

all the time so that the teacher wouldn't see. It took her 2 weeks to move the

child to another table. Then they tell him that before he lashes out at another

student in retaliation, he needs to come and tell them if something is

happening. What part of " Asperger's Syndrome " do they not understand? And if

she doesn't even believe him, WHY would he bother going to her in the first

place? It's a case of every time he acts out, oh, it's just the problem

autistic child again, and everything gets blamed on him.

>>Elias's placement and not following his IEP may well be the problem, and you

will be getting to that, but for the meanwhile they are just protecting the

other kids. Every child has a right to an education in a place where they

are not injured. If he is kicking other kids, well, I've got to tell you

that if one of mine got kicked, by ANYONE, I'd be the first to call up the

principal and ask why that child is still in school.<<

I'm sorry, I have no issue with him being removed from a situation or even

picking him up, but punitively suspending a socially and cognitively impaired 5

year old is never appropriate under any circumstances. I asked the school admin

today what on earth they hoped to accomplish by doing such a stupid thing. Her

answer: " Um. Honestly? I don't know. "

The bottom line is that I'm not willing to have the ENTIRE onus of keeping the

peace in the classroom placed onto the shoulders of my kid, which is exactly

what's happening now.

L.

[Guest guest]

,

>>Please call the school and ask them if they are now done waiting to " see how

he'd do " and if they are now ready to provide supports in the classroom and

follow his IEP. If he isn't having outbursts elsewhere you can use this as a

strong point to demonstrate that this is not an " ingrained " behaviour, but a

result of something not right in the classroom.<<

They know all of this, but the school psychologist has taken no less than six

weeks to complete the evaluation. She's been assigned to it since September,

and it's taken so long for her to even get STARTED, that his IEP actually

expired today and a temporary IEP is being put in place now until she decides to

actually do her job. Until then, they can't/ won't change his placement.

>>And by the way if

another child touches yours, you have a right to complain about that, too.

Perhaps he can't handle being touched. School needs to accommodate that.<<

But from their POV, it's the autistic " oppositional defiant " problem child who

sometimes tells tall tales! It must mean that we can ignore everything everyone

says. See the problem?

>>BTW if he is home under suspension, please make sure he does plenty of

learning while there, and lots more of it than he would when at school. If

you make it fun for him with TV and video games, of course he will want to

be suspended.<<

No, my son doesn't comprehend the concept of consequences AT ALL. I've tried to

teach him repeatedly using various means. When he has a privilege taken away

for doing something wrong, you can see the frustration and total confusion all

over his face, " But I promise to be nice now!! " He wouldn't understand why he

had to do extra school work, or even connect the fact that he's home with the

fact that he misbehaved the day before, and anyway, he wouldn't necessarily find

that boring because he enjoys doing school work when it's challenging.

ly, I see the whole thing as an administrative failure. Sorry to respond

twice, I went back and saw points I'd missed. Thanks for your response. =)

L.

[Guest guest]

Roxanna,

>>Not allowing him to be part of the program is discriminatory. I would read

up on the Americans with disability act. <<

That's what my mother said. And that's what we told them. They agreed that it

was a bad choice but haven't apologized or reneged on their reasoning. They

tried to frame it under the context of " But if he had embarrassed himself in

front of everyone, that would have been TERRIBLE for him! " Please. He would

have had no clue what was going on.

>>In addition to that, the fact that they can make predictions about his

actions proves that they have plenty of time to make proper accommodations in

advance to avoid the problems to begin with. To me, it shows that they have

plenty

of time and opportunity to work on a positive behavior plan but instead, they

choose not to do so. <<

They've known since before I enrolled him. I told them from day 1 that his

biggest problem was transitions and that he wasn't at kindergarten level

academically. It's taken them nearly six months to agree.

>>I'm so sorry they did this to you guys. I wish I knew how to change " the

system. " It sometimes feels like we have to reinvent the wheel for each kid.

Any chance you can move to a better school system? <<

No, we're barely making ends meet as it is. Thanks for your concern and your

thoughts though. =)

L.